The Relationships Thread: The Cardiac Wing

[TeeVee329]

But they [sam and Silas] talked, they got to know each other, they spent time together, they found out about each other's lives.  They bonded.  They got to know about the important people in the other's lives. 

 

Yeah, Silas suuuper opened up to Sam, that's why he was sure to mention his coma wife!  Oh wait...

Edited December 29, 2014 by TeeVee329

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

I will be extremely shocked if Robin and memory-restored Jasus don't together walk in on Samtrick fucking.

 

It is unpopular but I think it is unfair to Sam and Patrick, as individuals and as a couple, to be paired purposely for a Jakeson and possible Robin reaction. They get nothing out of this pairing as themselves or as a couple.

 

If you are a fan who've wanted Patrick and Sam paired for years, well they are being paired so you've your wish. But the show is not even trying to hide the fact that it is a roadblock. It is w waste of time to invest in them as a couple. 

 

I will be grateful and shocked if they maintain their friendship first stance till after the Jakeson reveal. 

Yeah, Silas suuuper opened up to Sam, that's why he was sure to mention his coma wife!  Oh wait...

 

To be fair, he wasn't meant to have a wife until MS was cast. IMO, that connection should have given Silas depth as a character but worked as a hindrance instead.

[ulkis]

I think McBain and Sam were way more rushed than Silas and Sam, emotionally if not physically (although I think, from, four months -it was late February when McBain came on the show, right - for a passionate kiss to take place is pretty quick too when you have one character who has been passionately in love with her husband for years, same with McBain who had just reunited with Natalie on the other show). But yeah, emotionally, imo, they were very rushed, since their first moment was "I knew you in a past life" and Sam brought up that feeling often during the next couple of months. It was really, really lazy of Ron to rely on that. They could have done the same story and skipped the "I knew you thing" and I still could have bought Sam feeling emotionally vulnerable to McBain while Jason was turning cold (er). But the whole connection right from the start just gave it a bad start, imo.

 

Silas and Sam didn't feel really rushed to me. Especially not for a Ron romance.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Yeah, Silas suuuper opened up to Sam, that's why he was sure to mention his coma wife!  Oh wait...

 

As much as I think it was crappy of Silas to not mention The Nina, given the way Ron writes, they might not have known that he was going to be married when he first turned up in Port Charles. Silas himself was cut from whole cloth because John McBain had to leave town and never be mentioned again. Was Nina always going to be a factor even before she woke up from the coma?

[TeeVee329]

Was Nina always going to be a factor even before she woke up from the coma?

 

There were loud hints that Ava and Silas had some non-Kiki related secret right off the bat.

 

I guess the Nina thing isn't a fair point, but I'm gonna stand by my opinion that Sam and Silas felt rushed.  The contrived situations that threw them into each others' paths (the pointless custody fight over pointless Rafe, Danny's cancer), Silas' attitude completely changing overnight to make him someone Sam would actually want to date, and as KerlyQ mentioned, the lingering awareness that Ron was cramming the actors back together.  None of it worked for me.

Edited December 29, 2014 by TeeVee329

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Oh, I do agree that they were rushed, because most if not all of the Ron-created pairings are rushed, I was just wondering if Nina suddenly waking up after twenty years was something that Ron pulled out of his butt because Stafford came on board.

[CPP83]

Oh, I do agree that they were rushed, because most if not all of the Ron-created pairings are rushed, I was just wondering if Nina suddenly waking up after twenty years was something that Ron pulled out of his butt because Stafford came on board.

 

 

Yes. Yes yes yes. Si. Oui. Ja. Da.

[KerleyQ]

I think Sam and Silas probably had the better build up.  With McBain, we had a guy who was last seen happily united with the mother of his child in another town.  There wasn't nearly enough build up of why he was suddenly interested in some other woman in a town he popped in to solve a case related to the sister we never knew he had.  That drunken kiss on the docks made him look like such a dirtbag.  

[HeatLifer]

I don't see this happening since Patrick has filed for divorce. Robin will probably just leave all sad with her tail between her legs.

Yup. With either a "sometimes love isn't enough" or a "Sam was there for me and I <3 her now" speech from Patrick.

[jsbt]

I think Sam and Silas probably had the better build up.  With McBain, we had a guy who was last seen happily united with the mother of his child in another town.  There wasn't nearly enough build up of why he was suddenly interested in some other woman in a town he popped in to solve a case related to the sister we never knew he had.  That drunken kiss on the docks made him look like such a dirtbag.  

 

See, to me, all that stuff with Sam just looked like John McBain. How he got involved with Sam, while supposedly happy with another woman he was never able to commit to, was his classic M.O. from years on another show, with many, many other women. It just so happened that someone like Sam, and a place like Port Charles, better suited the mercurial, adventure-driven man he was, IMO. He was still an ass, but he had found his place that made him work for me. I had never believed on OLTL that he would settle down with Natalie and his son or let her in, so it fit my world view.

 

I also thought it fit with the conflict with Jason and Sam, with Sam questioning her whole place in her life with Jason the hitman now that she had a baby on the way, possibly from a rape by his brother. It was clear they would reunite Jason and Sam in some way before things went any further with Sam and John - that has always been Ron's profile, to have the false reconciliation and then build something more with the new couple, whether it's well-written or badly. It just so happened that Steve Burton left the show before they could do more. I do think the "how do I know you" stuff was lame, but the overall use of John with Sam just clicked for me.

 

By contrast, Silas and Sam went from enemies with him as some sort of robot alien, to suddenly turning cozy overnight in a variety of deeply forced developments. Silas has never had a real, consistent character that was not in extremes of either "creepy robot/comically anti-John" or "John McBain, M.D." He occasionally is prickly and that can be fun, but it's not enough. ME as a doctor has never worked. Silas as a character barely exists, and that's why he's sort of falling away in front of our eyes now. Even RC and FV appear to have given up.

Edited December 29, 2014 by jsbt

[CPP83]

Silas has never had a real, consistent character that was not in extremes of either "creepy robot/comically anti-John" or "John McBain, M.D." He occasionally is prickly and that can be fun, but it's not enough. ME as a doctor has never worked. Silas as a character barely exists, and that's why he's sort of falling away in front of our eyes now. Even RC and FV appear to have given up.

 

 

 

I am going to reply to this in the "Clays" thread.

[TeeVee329]

See, to me, all that stuff with Sam just looked like John McBain. How he got involved with Sam, while supposedly happy with another woman he was never able to commit to, was his classic M.O. from years on another show, with many, many other women.

 

Very true.  Literally a week or two before OLTL cemented the endgame with Natalie, John was sniffing around poor widowed, pregnant, damsel-in-distress Tea.  It's what he does.

[Chairperson Meow]

Man, don't kill my Ted King love by bringing up Team Hater. Besides, Tea was totes banging Tomas. Er Lorenzo?

[Melgaypet]

See, I still don't get the Lorenzo/Tomas thing. Were they only look-alikes? Was Tomas another Alcazar brother? Or was "Lorenzo Alcazar" Tomas' cover? Was there ever an "original" Lorenzo? Were Baz and Lila Rae and Zombie Diego all half-siblings? I was so completely confused by that.

[jsbt]

I would still like to see that resolved someday. I know I'm one of the few. I assume Ron's take (and probably mine) would have been that maybe Tomas and Téa are distant relatives of the Alcazars, and Tomas had used that family resemblance to pose as one of the brothers during past international intelligence operations - but nothing that we ever saw onscreen on GH, that would've been all the real Lorenzo and Luis. You could, hypothetically, have Lorenzo return someday and say that he had just gotten through disposing of a pretender who had been trying to undermine his territory to law enforcement. That would tie the Tomas thread off without having to mention his name.

Edited December 29, 2014 by jsbt

[Chairperson Meow]

As long as Ted King comes back, I'm good.

I admit I really like that dude.

[dubbel zout]

Ron has already screwed TK over, so I wonder if he'd want to return to GH. He moved his family to NYC to work on OLTL, and I don't know if he's still there.

[TeeVee329]

Ron has already screwed TK over, so I wonder if he'd want to return to GH. He moved his family to NYC to work on OLTL, and I don't know if he's still there.

 

To be fair, I think TK got more screwed over by the cancellation than anything else.

[dubbel zout]

I think Ron lost interest in Tomas as soon as he got his Two Todds story. That was connected to the cancellation, definitely, but there were better ways to handle the character.

[Tiger]

Im still bitter that Guza finally did CarLo for real literally days after Tamara left after almost two years of build-up, and then promptly destroyed them. Tamara and Ted had "IT", and instead of running with it, Guza did everything he could to make Lorenzo the villain and strung that fan base along.

IIRCV, the rumors at the time when Tamara left were that she walked because she wanted to be paired with Ted for real and wanted Carly involved in a magazine or something with Skye.

ETA: since I kinda brought it up, I'm also still bitter than in Tamara's final scene, Car my smirked she walked in on Sonny & Reese. Carly & Sonny were over romantically and Tamara played it that way. But then they had Jennifer re-do the scene and suddenly Carly was all about Sonny again.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Tiger

[KerleyQ]

From what I remember of the rumor mill at that time, that was exactly why Tamara left.  She wanted out of Sonny/Carly hell and wanted them to go for it with Carly/Lorenzo.  And with the chip on his shoulder MB apparently had about TK, it wasn't going to happen.  

 

I remain bitter over that whole thing, too.  TB and TK were so good together, and the show completely tanked it to continue propping up Sonny and Jason.  

[nilyank]

I actually was happy that show torpedoed Carly and Lorenzo despite the actors' chemistry (which I did not think was all that). Like Carly and Franco, I never believed that Carly would get involved with a man that kept hurting the people she loved. Lorenzo tried to kill Sonny, Jason, her father; he took her out of the Panic Room and proceeded to keep her hostage in his war with Sonny; he went after Courtney which indirectly caused her to miscarried. Michael hated Lorenzo.

 

It never made any sense for me for Carly to fall for him. I never bought any of it.

[dubbel zout]

For me all that still pales to Sonny's bullet of love.

[Chairperson Meow]

For me all that still pales to Sonny's bullet of love.

Out of context, I want that stitched on a sampler. It's rather touching.

And on topic, MyKill hated everyone. I only trust this Michael's opinion. He's a normal personish.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

I actually was happy that show torpedoed Carly and Lorenzo despite the actors' chemistry (which I did not think was all that). Like Carly and Franco, I never believed that Carly would get involved with a man that kept hurting the people she loved. Lorenzo tried to kill Sonny, Jason, her father; he took her out of the Panic Room and proceeded to keep her hostage in his war with Sonny; he went after Courtney which indirectly caused her to miscarried. Michael hated Lorenzo.

 

It never made any sense for me for Carly to fall for him. I never bought any of it.

 

Glad I saw this before I replied. 

 

Carly/Lorenza romance was as bad as what happened with Franco. 

 

Also want to add my none appreciation for the actor. I don't get the appeal. 

[peachmangosteen]

Like Carly and Franco, I never believed that Carly would get involved with a man that kept hurting the people she loved.

 

She's keeps going back to Sonny after all the shit he's pulled on people she loves, including herself, so meh. Carly has no standards/morals IMO. And after Franco that is abundantly clear.

 

That being said, I have never been able to fully hate Carly. It might be because I started watching the show during the panic room story and I really loved TB and I shipped Carly/Alcazar a whole bunch. 

 

I think Carly could be a much better character than she is though. But the same could be said for like every character if the writing didn't suck.

 

ETA: This is probably better suited for the Carly thread but whatever!

Edited January 5, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I actually was happy that show torpedoed Carly and Lorenzo despite the actors' chemistry (which I did not think was all that). Like Carly and Franco, I never believed that Carly would get involved with a man that kept hurting the people she loved. Lorenzo tried to kill Sonny, Jason, her father; he took her out of the Panic Room and proceeded to keep her hostage in his war with Sonny; he went after Courtney which indirectly caused her to miscarried. Michael hated Lorenzo.

 

It never made any sense for me for Carly to fall for him. I never bought any of it.

 

A) Sonny shot Carly in the head.

 

B) Jason was a contract killer.

 

C) I don't think Carly actually reacted when John Durant died.

 

D) The only reason Carly liked SWMNBN was because she wasn't a rival in one way or the other.

 

E) Sonny shot Carly in the head..

 

Given that all of these things are true, a normal person would have been glad to be taken away from all of that.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

The Sonny shooting Carly in the head was bad but don't intention count for nothing? He didn't intend to harm her, he happens to be a mobster with terrible aim.

 

I am not also not seeing how Jason being a contract killer has anything to do with Carly falling in love with her kidnapper. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Going to the history thread.

[Melgaypet]

The Sonny shooting Carly in the head was bad but don't intention count for nothing? He didn't intend to harm her, he happens to be a mobster with terrible aim.

 

Intentions don't count for nothing, but they don't count for everything. Didn't mean any harm' isn't the same thing as 'didn't do any harm.' But Sonny thinks it does. He thinks his intentions (which are rarely as noble as he makes out) shield him from any consequences for his actions and that his guilt (which is almost always really self-pity) is always punishment enough for any of his misdeeds. He didn't mean to shoot Carly in the head (he only meant to murder Lorenzo), he didn't mean to shoot his own son in the chest (he only meant to murder an unarmed cop), he didn't mean to blow up a car with his daughter in it (he only meant to murder Johnny), etc...but he's still responsible for all of those things.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Melgaypet

[KerleyQ]

Sonny knew Carly was right next to Lorenzo, and he didn't execute enough care/restraint to make sure she was out of the line of fire before firing away.  Because he saw Lorenzo with what he considered his property, and that property taking or not taking a bullet was not as high of a priority as punishing Lorenzo for playing with his toys was. 

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Intentions don't count for nothing, but they don't count for everything. Didn't mean any harm' isn't the same thing as 'didn't do any harm.' But Sonny thinks it does. He thinks his intentions (which are rarely as noble as he makes out) shield him from any consequences for his actions and that his guilt (which is almost always really self-pity) is always punishment enough for any of his misdeeds. He didn't mean to shoot Carly in the head (he only meant to murder Lorenzo), he didn't mean to shoot his own son in the chest (he only meant to murder an unarmed cop), he didn't mean to blow up a car with his daughter in it (he only meant to murder Johnny), etc...but he's still responsible for all of those things.

 

Agree to disagree. 

 

I was responding to the original post about Carly marrying Lorenza when Sonny's done worst and they cited the head shot as an example. From Carly's perceptive, Sonny shooting her in the head is not the same as Lorenzo kidnapping her. There were two very different intents here.  Sonny's intention to kill Lorenza has nothing to do with Carly getting back together with Sonny. 

 

Now if she were deep and reasoned that Sonny killing Lorenzo whilst he was helping her give birth would result in her's or the baby's death, then yeah. But the show itself is not that deep.

[Melgaypet]

Deputy Deputy COS, if you're trying to say that intentions matter more than actual actions and their consequences, and that Sonny, or Lorenzo, or Carly, or anyone else, aren't responsible for anything they do so long as they didn't mean to do it, then, yeah, we're going to have to agree to disagree. And that's cool.

 

A thought struck me just now, that has nothing to do with Lorenzo or Carly; back when Brenda wore that infamous wire, her intention was to prove Sonny's innocence, that he wasn't the criminal everyone was telling her he was. Sonny sure didn't credit her good intentions in that case, did he?

Edited January 5, 2015 by Melgaypet

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Deputy Deputy COS, if you're trying to say that intentions matter more than actual actions and their consequences, and that Sonny, or Lorenzo, or Carly, or anyone else, aren't responsible for anything they do so long as they didn't mean to do it, then, yeah, we're going to have to agree to disagree. And that's cool.

 

You are magnifying my response. I was referring to that one instant of Sonny shooting Carly in the head. I stand by my original post that Sonny accidentally shooting Carly in the head is not worse than Lorenzo kidnapping her. I am not arguing that intent matters more than actions and consequences.

 

But yes, when I watch a show, I include intentions into how I perceive and judge characters. That is how I can like a character even when I dislike their actions. I don't have to agree with the intent behind their acts or like the outcome. 

[nilyank]

The thing is that Carly is extremely petty and holds grudges (see Ric). Lorenzo did (and later Franco) hurt the people that Carly loved despite those same people being horrible people. She would not fall for the men that hurt her family and friends especially Jason. It is not in her nature to be that forgiving and it is why her relationships with Lorenzo and Franco were always unbelievable.

[Chairperson Meow]

Honestly, Sonny just gets so bad, like a slimy mold that anything - anything imo I've learned I will like better. I will cheer for anything, even commercials over Sonny.

Plus, Ted King is just amazing and the rumors that Steve "Monavie " Burton and Ghost and the Whale really hated him due to jealousy makes me love him more.

[SlovakPrincess]

Shooting at Lorenzo (when he was right in front of Carly) and accidentally hitting Carly was monumentally stupid of Sonny. But it's probably one of the less bad things Sonny ever did because, from what I can gather from clips, he thought Lorenzo was hurting Carly (instead of helping her give birth). Sonny's vile, but this was more a matter of his stupidity.

I wasn't watching then, so i don't really know why Carly hooked up with that guy, if in fact he abducted her. Except that she's incapable of being alone for two seconds? She should go to a psychiatrist for that issue ... Especially after the Franco debacle, and her latest rendition of "oops, I fell on Sonny's penis."

Also, my Ric-hate slightly trumps my Carly-hate. I want her to slap Mr. Panic room every time she sees him.

[jsbt]

No, I bought the Carly and Lorenzo romance all the way, at least in 2003-2004. I was into that shit. They were great together, and IIRC they had originally painted Lorenzo as sort of the reluctant mobster - he had been a history professor or something before being pressured into the family business. He could get out and do something else, but he didn't. When it threatened Sonny and MB's prominence, they made sure to emasculate and then marginalize the character.

[dubbel zout]

The thing is that Carly is extremely petty and holds grudges (see Ric).

I'm no Carly fan, but she can hold the panic room against Ric forever. He chained her to a wall. That's hardly petty. Petty is disliking Kate because Carly felt threatened by her education and her history with Sonny.

[KerleyQ]

I wanted Tamara Braun's Carly and Jax because TB and Ingo had sparkly, sparkly crazy chemistry that outsparkled the-so-called sparkly chemistry that LW/IR had.  When I found out they put Carly and Jax together (I was on the Barge), I couldn't believe it since it was one of my least fave soap actresses in the role, but I checked them out and they were OK, but couldn't compare to the shine, radiant sparkle that TB's Carly and IR's Jax brought in that brief period when they flirted with Jax and Carly way back when he backed her nightclub Fusion.  So much potential, but yeah, then they dropped it for stupid Jax/SWMNBN and pitstops at various guys before sending Carly back to Sonny.  UGH!!  Poor Tamara.

 

I remember that time in the show, and TB was sparkling with everyone but Sonny.  They could have paired her with Jax, Zander, or Lorenzo.  And they wasted her chemistry with all three because "Sonny Must Win." 

[Melgaypet]

Resurrecting this thread because talk of Genie Francis in another thread reminded me of a crazy thought I had years ago - Laura and Noah Drake. I don't think those two ever even shared a scene but I was thinking one day about fresh love interests for Laura and how Noah would be a totally different type of guy for her. And they would be very pretty together. So...there's that.

 

I always kinda wanted JJ's Lucky and Maxie to hook up, too. I thought Jackson and Storms had a fun, sexy chemistry that washed away the memory of GV's Lucky and Maxie and their drug-fueled nastiness. JJ's Lucky had chemistry with Maya Ward, too.

[HeatLifer]

I've been brainwashed or something, but I really think one of the few things this show has respected is Jason and Robin's relationship. Having Rob be his conscience today and pushing him to remember Sam is totally realistic to me. Rob has always kinda been Jason's moral/right and wrong compass. And I believe that his memory and image of her would be stronger than Carly, Liz, even Sam's image.

Edited January 19, 2015 by HeatLifer

[SlovakPrincess]

Resurrecting this thread because talk of Genie Francis in another thread reminded me of a crazy thought I had years ago - Laura and Noah Drake. I don't think those two ever even shared a scene but I was thinking one day about fresh love interests for Laura and how Noah would be a totally different type of guy for her. And they would be very pretty together. So...there's that.

Io.

On a well written show, that would be a good pairing. Laura might be hesitant because Noah is a recovering alcoholic and she's had to deal with Luke's self destructive behavior - but that would be fodder for some heart to heart talks with Noah.

Bobbie might flip her shit over that, though. Hee hee.

[HeatLifer]

"I'll love Robin forever. She taught me how to love. Everything good I ever felt was because of her."

Jason and Robin, you guuuuuuys. I'm in my feels.

[jsbt]

"I'll love Robin forever. She taught me how to love. Everything good I ever felt was because of her."

Jason and Robin, you guuuuuuys. I'm in my feels.

 

I am pretty hyped.

[HeatLifer]

"Your mom and I were friends a long time ago. She taught me a lot of stuff I didn't know. Like how to play checkers. How to cook spaghetti, actually. And how to say goodbye; she went to Paris once and I missed her a lot. You know, sometimes when I miss your mom, I just close my eyes and I picture her smiling. And then I try to hear her voice and everything she taught me and everything she told me."

This was one of the best things EVER. And still applies. It will always apply.

He heard her voice today!!!! And he remembered how she told him not to be trigger happy!!

[UYI]

I was watching some of the carnival scenes from 2009 the other day, and Jax was trying to keep Olivia being upset about Dante getting hurt in front of Sonny, since he was still undercover. If it weren't for the whole "Sonny's sloppy seconds" factor poor Jax always has to deal with, he and Olivia could be really pretty together.

[ulkis]

I agree. SlovakPrincess also put the idea of Jax and Anna in my head and I really like that one. (Plus I think Jax would make Robert really, really jealous, even if he wouldn't admit it.)

[OnceSane]

I was watching some of the carnival scenes from 2009 the other day, and Jax was trying to keep Olivia being upset about Dante getting hurt in front of Sonny, since he was still undercover. If it weren't for the whole "Sonny's sloppy seconds" factor poor Jax always has to deal with, he and Olivia could be really pretty together.

Hey, he got to bang Sam first! :)

[KerleyQ]

Yeah, but they made sure that Sonny's swimmers beat Jax's swimmers to make up for it.