S01.E06: You Asked For Miracles

[AnimeMania]

Xavier and Robinson set their plans on motion while Sinatra works to preserve the status quo in Paradise.

Premiere Date: February 18, 2025   Hulu     

[NeenerNeener]

So we're getting a little bit more about what happened in the US to drive all the billionaires literally underground. Atlanta was nuked? By who? Since Sinatra is actually running the underground city, did she also fund the building of it? How did she know exactly when the attack was going to happen so she could get people evacuated to her city? Were more cities aboveground attacked, or just the one?

I'm half expecting to find out that Sinatra's hubby was cheating on her and she used her billions to build this elaborate underground bunker so she would have total control over him. Or there's some equally stupid explanation coming up.

[SeanBug]

I think Sinatra kept X's wife from being able to escape Atlanta. (JMO). I loved her in the principal's office re the whiny couple's kid. "Put his ass in the car and take him to school". 

So now evil Jane has X's daughter so that Sinatra can stop him. 

Did you guys know the actress who plays Jane is the daughter of David Bloom? He was a reporter for NBC News and died in Irag from a deep vein thrombosis while covering the war.  He was a favorite of mine.  She's engaged to Justin Theroux. 

I'm feeling more and more like this is a bit of a commentary on current affairs, what with a bunch of billionaires running things behind the scenes.  I hope we find out how Sinatra got all that power and what her deal is. 

I'm telling everyone to watch this show, it's so good. But it's hard to explain it without giving too much away.  

Edited Tuesday at 04:22 PM by SeanBug

[Anela]

As soon as Presley ran off, I knew that Jane would get her to go off with her.  I wanted to hear what Jeremy was saying, but of course we have to wait to find out what’s going on. 

Edited Tuesday at 08:28 PM by Anela

[Snazzy Daisy]

This episode is all about predicting behaviors.

Quote

“Sometimes making a scene is the only thing you can do.”

The “Who is Sinatra?” countdown is quite exhilarating. The fear of the unknown is really a powerful tool.

Xavier making a scene to trigger the shelter protocol. But Gabriela throws a spanner in the works, sabotaging Xavier’s plan to corral the cattle. Dammit.

Sinatra then desperately pulls the “your wife is alive card”, still trying to protect her Paradise. Dr. Teri Rogers-Collins is still alive, allegedly. Is it shocking? Nope, it’s in fact so predictable.

This episode feels restricted as the takedown of Sinatra & co. cannot be happening now, or else there’ll be nothing left to do in episode 8. Sinatra needs to only lose her sh!t, for now. 

One lingering question — how does Jeremy know straightaway that Kane’s handprint will unlock the tablet? It took Cal some times to figure that part out. 🤔

[marinw]

How long does the iPad stay unlocked? Rolled my eyes when Sinatra said the whole “Your wife is alive!” Thing.

What kind of scientist is/was Teri? They are deliberately keeping that vague. Yet they seem to be able to live in a fancy townhouse, so she must be instrumental in something.

Edited Wednesday at 12:06 AM by marinw

[txhorns79]

2 hours ago, marinw said:

Rolled my eyes when Sinatra said the whole “Your wife is alive!” Thing.

Yes, you knew that was coming.  Though I wouldn't trust a word Sinatra says.  On the positive side, I thought Julianne Nicholson did a great job showing Sinatra falling apart in the face of a direct challenge, and really showing just how vulnerable and weak the character is when cornered by things she can't control.  

I also rolled my eyes at the entire take down plan being a weird tribute to Die Hard.  Brooklyn 99 had a variation/running joke as to Die Hard across its seasons, and this just felt like a rip off. 

Also a big eyeroll at Xavier's daughter, of course, not following the plan, and easily falling into enemy hands.  And I get that Jane is a killer and is supposedly a bad ass assassin, but it is so hard to take her seriously.  The actress plays her cover like she is at the maturity level of a very young teenager.  That might disarm people, but it would be hard to believe she could be in the Secret Service.    

[Haleth]

It’s such a trope that the teenage child of the protagonist disobeys, runs off, and gets into trouble. At least she had enough time to get the info to Jeremy. (I was waiting for her to run into a cougar.)

Of course Mrs Dr Collins is alive. Thought that reveal would be in the last epi though.

I hope Robinson is not involved in the conspiracy because I kind of like her being all badass.

The epi was really tense. Sterling is such a compelling actor. 

Edited Wednesday at 03:05 AM by Haleth

[chaifan]

11 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

Atlanta was nuked? By who? Since Sinatra is actually running the underground city, did she also fund the building of it?

Going in reverse order...  Since Episode 2, with Sinatra showing the plane load of scientists the excavation site, I've just assumed her billions were behind the creation of Paradise.  My guess is that it is a public/private combination.  And yeah, what's with the nukes???  I've been guessing the "extinction level event" was a natural disaster that couldn't be avoided - asteroid, fault lines, something like that.  Unless they tried to obliterate an asteroid with nukes and Atlanta got the fallout.  But even if there were nukes in Atlanta, why/how would that affect breathable air in Colorado.  I don't know, it just doesn't make sense.  I really hope they clear that up before the end of the season.

Anyways...  damn, these last 2 episodes have been great!   So much going on.  I like that we're seeing more behind the scenes of Paradise, seeing how the sausage gets made.  I loved seeing Sinatra unravel, and I loved the scenes with her and Gabriella.  When all of X's guys were heading up the stairwells, I thought they were going for the boardroom.  

A few things that required a bit of handwaving and/or eyerolling...  how the hell did X come up with this plan so quickly?  There were a lot of moving parts, especially with gathering up the guys.  I would have assumed Sinatra would have had a way to monitor all text conversations, considering the level of surveillance she has everywhere else.  Including Gabriella's shower.  Or being able to track all those black SUV's on video, or something like that.  Does Jeremy no longer have a secret service detail?  You'd think the kid of a murdered President would still have some protection detail.  I was expecting a better explanation as to how Presley got the Presidential Tablet.  And, yes, Sinatra's whole "your wife is alive" reveal could be seen a mile (or 5 episodes) away.  But damn, Sinatra has one hell of a house!

[Ellaria]

Sure - there were a few obvious “I saw it coming moments:” Presley disobeying and falling into enemy hands, the still-alive wife, the inevitable showdown between X and Sinatra.

However, what bothered me most about the “take-over” plan is the next steps. Having all of the guns and the weapons may not make up for not having the knowledge to deal with the truth of their situation.

Regardless, I enjoyed this episode and love this show. The acting is terrific.

[ShellsandCheese]

I can’t imagine Atlanta of all places being a first target for a nuke attack; or even a target. So for me that’s the first thing that’s not adding up and making me suspicious. Colorado is actually a more likely option because of NORAD and US Northern Command and just the sheer number of strategic and tactical points located there. 

Edited Wednesday at 04:09 AM by ShellsandCheese

[Mr. R0b0t]

1 hour ago, ShellsandCheese said:

I can’t imagine Atlanta of all places being a first target for a nuke attack; or even a target. So for me that’s the first thing that’s not adding up and making me suspicious. Colorado is actually a more likely option because of NORAD and US Northern Command and just the sheer number of strategic and tactical points located there. 

Atlanta has one of the busiest airports in the world.  The CDC is headquartered there (at least until it's disbanded), so it would make for an ideal soft (as in non-mil) target.  Maybe the enemy really dislikes Coca-Cola.

[Paloma]

9 hours ago, chaifan said:

And yeah, what's with the nukes???  I've been guessing the "extinction level event" was a natural disaster that couldn't be avoided - asteroid, fault lines, something like that.  Unless they tried to obliterate an asteroid with nukes and Atlanta got the fallout.  But even if there were nukes in Atlanta, why/how would that affect breathable air in Colorado.  I don't know, it just doesn't make sense.

 

8 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

I can’t imagine Atlanta of all places being a first target for a nuke attack; or even a target. So for me that’s the first thing that’s not adding up and making me suspicious. Colorado is actually a more likely option because of NORAD and US Northern Command and just the sheer number of strategic and tactical points located there.

You both make good points, and I don't see any good reason to nuke Atlanta and not Colorado in a missile attack, if the attack was by an enemy of the US. But everything they've said up to this point has suggested an extinction event caused by natural disaster. IIRC, the scientist at the conference who warned Sinatra mentioned tsunami as one possibility, and in the episode where the President's father was reading the poem, we saw images of what was supposedly the Washington Monument underwater. If there was a tsunami, I assume it would affect more of the East Coast than just DC, but maybe those images were not meant to be literal (just symbolic of the destruction of the government/US).

9 hours ago, chaifan said:

When all of X's guys were heading up the stairwells, I thought they were going for the boardroom.  

I was confused about where X's guys were coming from. First we see just X and Robinson in the armory, then they go out to meet the rest of their team (handwaving how they got so many people to join their team and communicated when and where to meet without Sinatra and her surveillance finding out). They appear to be in some well-lit and clean place with big pipes; was this supposed to be the "basement" of the cave with the essential equipment that keeps the place running--water, power, etc.? You would think there would be surveillance cameras in that area, but I guess we can assume that X and his team took them out without the people watching the cameras noticing (another big handwave). 

I have questions about the Versailles protocol and the shelter protocol. This episode made a big deal about the President having X run him through the Versailles protocol, literally a walking tour that seemed to end at a door where they would presumably exit the White House. Was the shelter protocol for the President and billionaires underground the same basic procedure--obviously not in the real White House, but maybe they designed the President's and billionaires' homes with the same secret routes for escape? If it was the same basic procedure with the same or similar routes, that would explain how X would be able to anticipate where Sinatra and the "cattle" (the billionaires) would go if she called for shelter protocol. 

9 hours ago, Ellaria said:

However, what bothered me most about the “take-over” plan is the next steps. Having all of the guns and the weapons may not make up for not having the knowledge to deal with the truth of their situation.

Regardless, I enjoyed this episode and love this show. The acting is terrific.

X and his team don't have the knowledge of the full truth, but I think they didn't need it to accomplish their initial goals: (1) wake up the population and get them to question the truth and the people in charge (they accomplished this goal, at least for now); and (2) capture Sinatra and the billionaires. I think X's team did capture the billionaires except for Sinatra--wasn't her car the only one that turned around because Gabriela told her what X said? If the other billionaires were captured, X would still have leverage, but of course he will lose that leverage if he believes Sinatra's lie about his wife still being alive--I assume it is a lie because she would be dead if she were in Atlanta, and where would she be if she didn't make it to Atlanta? 

Despite my questions and nitpicking, I also enjoy the show because of the interesting characters and the way they make a sci-fi type scenario believable.

[Paloma]

Just thought of another question: how did the top-secret tablet end up on the lawn (or in the bushes) outside the President's house? If he was murdered by someone who didn't want people to know the secrets, why would the murderer have discarded the tablet so carelessly? Maybe it got tossed out accidentally during a struggle between the President and the murderer. If the murderer was the President's father, that might make sense--maybe the father either didn't notice the tablet being tossed or forgot about it (because of dementia) when he left.

[chaifan]

54 minutes ago, Paloma said:

how did the top-secret tablet end up on the lawn (or in the bushes) outside the President's house?

My theory...  Cal is in his bedroom.  He is looking at the tablet, hears someone coming down the hall or there's a knock on the door.  He tosses the tablet out the window (I think there were french doors and a balcony in his room, maybe?) so whoever is coming in doesn't see it.  He gets killed.  Tablet is in the bushes.  

But I still think it's out of character that soon as Presley found out the President was dead that she didn't say "hey dad, look what I found".  Gotta handwave that away.

1 hour ago, Paloma said:

If there was a tsunami, I assume it would affect more of the East Coast than just DC, but maybe those images were not meant to be literal (just symbolic of the destruction of the government/US).

The scientist guy at the billionaire's convention in Episode 2 said something about the whole east coast being under water.  So I think those images were real, not symbolic.*  I think we'll find out there was some Armageddon (the movie, not biblical story) scenario where they were trying to nuke an asteroid, to veer it off course or break it up so there would be less impact.  The downside would be nuclear fallout over that area, which happens to be Atlanta.  That still doesn't explain why Colorado would be uninhabitable, though.  Maybe multiple asteroids, multiple nukes, all over the world.

I'm surprised the safety bunker for the board/cabinet/billionaires isn't directly below the building they were in.  Why would you risk transporting everyone across the city in any type of disaster scenario?  Especially if they have to go outside to get to the vehicles.  

I'm wondering now if Teri wasn't also working on some doomsday scenario, not knowing that Xavier knew, and being sworn to secrecy herself.  Sinatra knows she's alive because she knows there's a second city bunker and Teri was assigned to that one.  They were both promised that their family would stay together, but that was never really the plan.  It would make sense for there to be more than one bunker, for redundancy purposes, and for all to think they're the only ones.  Maybe she wasn't really in Atlanta, that was part of the secrecy.  Because it wouldn't make sense for a doomsday medical team to be meeting at ground zero of the disaster.  Near ground zero, maybe, but not directly in it.

I think it's clear now that whatever the gov't knew about the disaster they were not telling the general public.  I get that, there would be mass panic, and if they thought anyone outside of a bunker wouldn't survive it wouldn't matter.  

This show has been set up for 3 seasons.  My guess is that season 2 will center around Xavier searching for Teri, and if there is a second underground city we'll see what's going on there with Teri as the focal point.  Waiting for Season 2 will suck.

* I remember hearing a while back, maybe after the Phuket tsunami or the one in Japan, that there's some theory about an underwater volcano somewhere off the east coast, and if that erupts then the resulting tsunamis would take out the entire east coast.  

 

[circumvent]

22 hours ago, SeanBug said:

I'm feeling more and more like this is a bit of a commentary on current affairs, what with a bunch of billionaires running things behind the scenes.

Only that in real life they don't need to hide anymore

23 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

Atlanta was nuked? By who?

Musk. MLK Jr hometown, lots of black people. 

11 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

And I get that Jane is a killer and is supposedly a bad ass assassin, but it is so hard to take her seriously.  The actress plays her cover like she is at the maturity level of a very young teenager.

To me she is like one of those villains in cop shows, the face of a psychopath

 

There is not a scenario where only one place would be hit by a nuclear weapon. Today's nukes are way more potent - like hundreds of times - than the ones the US used in Japan. And with that not only the air would be bad and deadly, which would cause immediate death, but the whole ecosystem would be off balance. Nukes don't destroy everything at once, it makes it impossible to grow food and have clean water. In some cases, the sun cant even break the dark clouds barrier. One nuke would send those people to the bunker, yes, but the planet would still be in a war. But I thought the conversation in previous episodes was about an environmental catastrophe - haven't watched the episode yet.

Just an aside: the president is #47, billionaires control the little city/country. End of the world? Will anyone survive this crap show? Will the world?

 

[Paloma]

16 minutes ago, chaifan said:

I'm surprised the safety bunker for the board/cabinet/billionaires isn't directly below the building they were in.  Why would you risk transporting everyone across the city in any type of disaster scenario?  Especially if they have to go outside to get to the vehicles.  

Agree, relying on transporting people across a city doesn't make sense--in fact, the Versailles protocol as described by X to the President did not make sense to me, since it involved various transportation parts to get to (I think) Andrews AFB?

18 minutes ago, chaifan said:

I'm wondering now if Teri wasn't also working on some doomsday scenario, not knowing that Xavier knew, and being sworn to secrecy herself.  Sinatra knows she's alive because she knows there's a second city bunker and Teri was assigned to that one.  They were both promised that their family would stay together, but that was never really the plan.  It would make sense for there to be more than one bunker, for redundancy purposes, and for all to think they're the only ones.  Maybe she wasn't really in Atlanta, that was part of the secrecy.  Because it wouldn't make sense for a doomsday medical team to be meeting at ground zero of the disaster.  Near ground zero, maybe, but not directly in it.

I like this idea except that it would be difficult for loving spouses to keep that kind of secret from each other, especially since the welfare of the children was involved. But I guess it's possible they'd keep the secret if they were both promised that the family would stay together and/or threatened that the children would not be kept safe if they told their spouse.

 

 

[SeanBug]

22 minutes ago, circumvent said:

Only that in real life they don't need to hide anymore

Musk. MLK Jr hometown, lots of black people. 

To me she is like one of those villains in cop shows, the face of a psychopath

 

There is not a scenario where only one place would be hit by a nuclear weapon. Today's nukes are way more potent - like hundreds of times - than the ones the US used in Japan. And with that not only the air would be bad and deadly, which would cause immediate death, but the whole ecosystem would be off balance. Nukes don't destroy everything at once, it makes it impossible to grow food and have clean water. In some cases, the sun cant even break the dark clouds barrier. One nuke would send those people to the bunker, yes, but the planet would still be in a war. But I thought the conversation in previous episodes was about an environmental catastrophe - haven't watched the episode yet.

Just an aside: the president is #47, billionaires control the little city/country. End of the world? Will anyone survive this crap show? Will the world?

 

Was Atlanta really hit, or is this part of Sinatra's bs plot?

Agree re the catastrophe. I thought it was like a meteor or something. 

Every episode I love Sterling K Brown more.  Can't wait for Jane to be taken out. 

[Broderbits]

13 minutes ago, SeanBug said:

Was Atlanta really hit, or is this part of Sinatra's bs plot?

Exactly. I wouldn't believe a word she said without 2 forms of actual proof. To quote Mary McCarthy re: Lillian Hellman: Every word she says is a lie, including "and" and "the".

[Paloma]

5 minutes ago, Broderbits said:

21 minutes ago, SeanBug said:

Was Atlanta really hit, or is this part of Sinatra's bs plot?

Exactly. I wouldn't believe a word she said without 2 forms of actual proof. To quote Mary McCarthy re: Lillian Hellman: Every word she says is a lie, including "and" and "the".

I agree that she can't talk without lying, but the info about Atlanta being hit was on the top-secret tablet that even the President couldn't access. So just like the top-secret survivors info from the tablet, I tend to believe that Atlanta was hit by nukes. Which makes it harder to believe her claiming that X's wife survived and Sinatra can find her.

[chaifan]

39 minutes ago, Paloma said:

I like this idea except that it would be difficult for loving spouses to keep that kind of secret from each other, especially since the welfare of the children was involved.

We know that X has been keeping this secret, but that's his job and he takes it very seriously.  I agree it would be harder for Teri, as she's "civilian" and what we've seen of her shows that she doesn't cater to authority well.  And she'd probably think "X protects the President, so he has to know about this already, so I'll just let him know that I know, too."  

1 hour ago, circumvent said:

But I thought the conversation in previous episodes was about an environmental catastrophe - haven't watched the episode yet.

That discussion happened in Episode 2, at the conference Sinatra and Cal were at (before he was President).  But it was just presented as a theory by a scientist that no one (other than Sinatra) was listening to.  We haven't had any explanation on screen of what actually happened.  Just as an aside, how are you commenting if you haven't watched the episode yet?  Don't you get spoiled by the comments?  I hate it when I accidentally read ahead and get spoiled by comments.  

 

[marinw]

How many security people does a community of 25k even need? It says something that so many of them were ready to joint X and Richardson.

[SeanBug]

Just now, marinw said:

How many security people does a community of 25k even need? It says something that so many of them were ready to joint X and Richardson.

I think they were the Secret Service detail and there are a lot of them assigned to each protectee, as they work in shifts. 

So 20 or so isn't out of the question.  I don't recall how many were in that scene when X told them what was going on. There could be more protecting that building where all the tech stuff was happening. 

[Ellaria]

I agree with those that think there is more than one secure bunker. Situations in the bunkers may be drastically different but others have survived. Teri is one of the survivors and is in the Atlanta bunker.

If so, is there communication between all of the bunkers across the country and possibly the world? My guess is that Sinatra wants to keep her bunker separate and secure from others. She wants to preserve her family - and her chosen few - to live in an idyllic world. She has no interest in “saving humanity.”

As far as the tablet, whoever thru it off Cal’s balcony isn’t aware of its value. It was discarded like garbage.

Presley saw an individual wearing a jacket with the flower. Is he or she Cal’s killer? What is the significance of that flower?

Also, we are told that X took 30 minutes before he alerted anyone - other than Billy - that Cal was dead. What happened in that time?

Edited Wednesday at 05:10 PM by Ellaria

[Paloma]

31 minutes ago, Ellaria said:

Presley saw an individual wearing a jacket with the flower. Is he or she Cal’s killer? What is the significance of that flower?

Also, we are told that X took 30 minutes before he alerted anyone - other than Billy - that Cal was dead. What happened in that time?

The President's father had a bookmark with the same or similar flower design, and I think in the last episode he was telling Jeremy and Presley about how much it meant to him because his wife gave it to him (or something like that--also, he thought he was talking to his son when he said that). So one possibility is that it was the President's father wearing the jacket with the flower, but that may be misdirection.

X said in an earlier episode (I don't remember who he said it to--maybe Billy?) that he took the time to closely examine the murder scene before he alerted anyone, because he knew that as soon as he reported it he would be taken off the case since he was the last person seen with the President that night (or maybe next to last? Not sure if the President's lover was there before or after X, but when being interrogated X made the point that the lover should not be leading the investigations).

[Ellaria]

23 minutes ago, Paloma said:

The President's father had a bookmark with the same or similar flower design, and I think in the last episode he was telling Jeremy and Presley about how much it meant to him because his wife gave it to him (or something like that--also, he thought he was talking to his son when he said that). So one possibility is that it was the President's father wearing the jacket with the flower, but that may be misdirection.

X said in an earlier episode (I don't remember who he said it to--maybe Billy?) that he took the time to closely examine the murder scene before he alerted anyone, because he knew that as soon as he reported it he would be taken off the case since he was the last person seen with the President that night (or maybe next to last? Not sure if the President's lover was there before or after X, but when being interrogated X made the point that the lover should not be leading the investigations).

I noticed the bookmark with the same flower. What’s the connection? Did Kane plot the murder of his son? Kane may not be what he appears to be. We have no idea of the significance of that flower. The fact that it appeared on the jacket of someone present around the time of Cal’s murder has importance. Wearing THAT jacket at THAT moment was purposeful. Is there a “secret society” trying to impact the course of events? 

Was Cal’s death a planned act or an impulsive one? One person with a motive is Sinatra because she knew that Cal would no longer keep her secrets. IMO, Sinatra is too obvious. She has lost control of her town.

X taking 30 minutes to review and secure the scene after finding Cal’s body is not benign and likely not part of protocol. X was concerned about something.

Presley and Jeremy are in possession of many of the puzzle pieces. 

[ShellsandCheese]

I noticed something and it could be nothing or it could be a clue, lol. When Gabriela and Sinatra were talking and Sinatra demanded they reboot the sky to get rid of the messages, Gabriela made this comment:

”Absolutely not. A shutdown would be like reliving everything all over again. The sheltering protocols, the illusion of world being broken.”

But she may have been talking about breaking the current reality but it sounded like she was talking about the initial arrival when people believed something catastrophic had happened and their world as they knew it was no more. 

Edited Yest. at 12:11 AM by ShellsandCheese

[Artsda]

Don't listen to her X! She's probably alive, but don't let Sinatra play the manipulation game. 

Wonder what the kids found on the tablet if it's same info or new.  I thought he would have found a message from from Cal on the disc man cd. 

[ShellsandCheese]

I’m starting to think that Sinatra thinks she’s in control but it’s actually a secret cadre of folks controlling everything; it’s the people with that damn flower logo. Or Sinatra is a part of it but she’s being usurped; perhaps that was the plan all along to get rid of Sinatra. Hmmm. 

[circumvent]

18 hours ago, chaifan said:

Just as an aside, how are you commenting if you haven't watched the episode yet?  Don't you get spoiled by the comments?  I hate it when I accidentally read ahead and get spoiled by comments

My comments are on the general premise of the show, the idea of a bunker, billionaires in charge, etc. I don't really care to be spoiled. 

 

18 hours ago, Paloma said:

Which makes it harder to believe her claiming that X's wife survived and Sinatra can find her.

Or maybe his wife was part of the catastrophic event and Atlanta wasn't hit but enemies, but it was an "accident" due to some system failure - which is something very real in our real life since there is so little oversight of any lind of weapons

[Paloma]

3 hours ago, circumvent said:

Or maybe his wife was part of the catastrophic event and Atlanta wasn't hit but enemies, but it was an "accident" due to some system failure - which is something very real in our real life since there is so little oversight of any lind of weapons

That is certainly possible, and the risk of catastrophic events due to lack of oversight is increasing by the moment (I'm trying to avoid political commentary but it should be obvious for anyone following the news).

I don't remember if it's been said what kind of doctor X's wife is--medical doctor (who might work with the CDC) or PhD scientist (who might work with CDC or another organization based in Atlanta).

[marinw]

2 hours ago, Paloma said:

That is certainly possible, and the risk of catastrophic events due to lack of oversight is increasing by the moment (I'm trying to avoid political commentary but it should be obvious for anyone following the news).

For all his youth and Bro-ness, I think Cal was actually a competent POTUS compared to a certain Real-World example. The flashbacks do show him preparing for the upcoming Apocalyptic Event. My question is exactly at what point did he become a puppet of Sinatra and others? Maybe once they were in the Cave, Sinatra became the one with all the resources, so she became the one in control.

Edited 18 hours ago by marinw

[Paloma]

2 hours ago, marinw said:

For all his youth and Bro-ness, I think Cal was actually a competent POTUS compared to a certain Real-World example. The flashbacks do show him preparing for the upcoming Apocalyptic Event. My question is exactly at what point he become a puppet of Sinatra and others. Maybe once they were in the Cave, Sinatra became the one with all the resources, so she became the one in control.

I agree. Cal may have been a lightweight or even to some extent a figurehead President put in place by Daddy, but he seemed to mature and start to take his role seriously as he began to recognize the seriousness of the situation before the apocalyptic event. Once the designated survivors were living underground, I think that Cal tried to do the right thing but became depressed when he realized that Sinatra and the billionaires held all the power. 

I love James Marsden and think he is perfect in this role--likable, superficially a little simple, but with psychological layers that make him both more complicated and sympathetic.

[twoods]

Of course the selfish billionaires care about themselves and Sinatra worrying about her family while forgetting how many people she’s killed. I hope they all die, and take Jane with them.

Edited 13 hours ago by twoods

[chaifan]

4 hours ago, Paloma said:

Cal may have been a lightweight or even to some extent a figurehead President put in place by Daddy, but he seemed to mature and start to take his role seriously as he began to recognize the seriousness of the situation before the apocalyptic event. Once the designated survivors were living underground, I think that Cal tried to do the right thing but became depressed when he realized that Sinatra and the billionaires held all the power. 

I have a different take on the timeline, cause/effect issues...  I think Cal became President because he believed the "extinction level event" was going to happen and wanted to be in a position to do something about it.  From the scene at the conference where Sinatra and Cal were listening to that scientist, Sinatra believed this guy early on, and I think from there she convinced Cal this was going to happen and talked him into running for President (and bankrolled it) so they could "save the human race".  If this wasn't his motivation for running for President, why have him in that scene or at that session of the conference?  He and Sinatra could have bumped into each other anywhere, country club or society event, and had the same "how ya doing" conversation.  It will be interesting to find out if Cal went into politics prior to this, as his dad wanted.  I don't think there was any indication in the conference scene what Cal was doing at that time, right?

My take on Cal is that he really didn't care much about power in and of itself, and probably was happy to let someone else take the reins, either officially or unofficially, once they were in Paradise.  After all, how much can there be to do as President over a population of 25,000 in a closed, controlled world?  So the power share isn't the big deal.  But he was gutted by finding out about the killing of the scientists - what Sinatra was doing with the power - and that's when he started to spiral.  

 

[marinw]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

My take on Cal is that he really didn't care much about power in and of itself, and probably was happy to let someone else take the reins, either officially or unofficially, once they were in Paradise

Did they specify whether Cal was Democratic or Republican? His Dad told him to choose the party based on what he was running for. I’m reminded of 24 where they kept the party of the President deliberately vague.

In any case, Paradise could not have been completed without a lot of government money, no matter how rich Sinatra and Cal’s family were.

Edited 11 hours ago by marinw

[chaifan]

@marinw  I don't think they've mentioned political parties.  I forgot about Cal's dad's remarks on that. 

I agree that Paradise had to have gov't involvement, I've said earlier it's a public/private project, and that's why I think Sinatra is the driving force behind Cal becoming President, not Cal's dad.  She needed an ally in the White House to build Paradise.  And it's why I think he knew about the impending disaster before he ran, and that was the reason for him running.

 

[Paloma]

32 minutes ago, chaifan said:

I have a different take on the timeline, cause/effect issues...  I think Cal became President because he believed the "extinction level event" was going to happen and wanted to be in a position to do something about it.  From the scene at the conference where Sinatra and Cal were listening to that scientist, Sinatra believed this guy early on, and I think from there she convinced Cal this was going to happen and talked him into running for President (and bankrolled it) so they could "save the human race".  If this wasn't his motivation for running for President, why have him in that scene or at that session of the conference?  He and Sinatra could have bumped into each other anywhere, country club or society event, and had the same "how ya doing" conversation.  It will be interesting to find out if Cal went into politics prior to this, as his dad wanted.  I don't think there was any indication in the conference scene what Cal was doing at that time, right?

Interesting take--I can see that, though I still think he became President in large part because that's what Daddy wanted. When he and Sinatra met the scientist at the conference, I thought Sinatra addressed Cal as Senator or maybe Governor--if that's true (I may be misremembering), he was already in politics at the time. Even if he wasn't a Senator or Governor, he probably had to have some political position then, in order to be able to become President just a few years later. But the timeline is not clear.

[chaifan]

Just now, Paloma said:

Even if he wasn't a Senator or Governor, he probably had to have some political position then, in order to be able to become President just a few years later.

Oh, how I wish this were true...  😆

I don't remember if Sinatra addressed him with a political title at the conference.  They definitely knew each other on a social level prior to that, somewhat well even.  The flashback scene with Cal and his dad was supposed to be in the 90's, right, based on the mixed CD Cal had?  And the conference was about 12 years ago?  15-20-ish years is plenty of time to get a political foothold.  But part of me is rooting for him to have been "just" an English teacher, as he wanted to be.  

 

[circumvent]

13 hours ago, twoods said:

Of course the selfish billionaires care about themselves and Sinatra worrying about her family while forgetting how many people she’s killed. I hope they all die, and take Jane with them.

Using your words to express my feelings 

Of course the selfish billionaires care about themselves forgetting how many people they've killed. I hope they all die

 

Not only about the show, which is weirdly - or not -  mirroring real life