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S01.E05: In The Palaces Of Crowned Kings

AnimeMania

By AnimeMania
in Paradise (Hulu)

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Snazzy Daisy

Snazzy Daisy

Cal was unhappy because he’s leading a life that he truly never wanted. He was a puppet.

When Kane says he saw Presley before, he’s telling the truth. Presley has been frequenting the president’s house for game night with Billy. Remember what Billy said to her at the carnival in E04.

Quote

“This was before you started coming over for game night, which by the way, is not a secret anymore.”

I don’t think Presley steals the tablet. Cal might gave it to her because he wanted Xavier to have it. Two things that keep bugging me — why is no one tracking the tablet and how is Xavier going to access info on that tablet without high security clearance?

812092  —  it couldn’t be 29 February 2018 because 2018 was not a leap year.

812092  — it could be the location in the library where Cal stashed his notebook. He pretended to go there for the music.

A poem — “Darkness” by Lord Byron (written in 1816) depicting the end of life on earth.

Quote

“She was the universe.”

Is Kane hinting at someone and the darkness that she represents? She craves control of the perfect world she has created and will do anything to protect it.

I still have Gabriela on top of my list of suspects. Sinatra is a red herring.

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Ellaria

Ellaria

Kane was interesting and I want to re-watch to pick up on all of his comments. He has definitely seen Presley before. She *may* have been there with Billy or Jeremy. Regardless, she was there the night that Cal was murdered. Cal gave her the tablet knowing/believing that it would end up in Xavier’s hands. Did Cal know that he would be killed?

I don’t trust Gabriela and I hope that Xavier figures her out quickly. What is her motivation?

Alternatively, Robinson redeemed herself a bit. In a world where no one can be trusted, Xavier may need Robinson.

i worry about the neighbor’s cute little dog. 

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ShellsandCheese

ShellsandCheese

(edited)

Lord. When Xavier told Robinson you were dating the murder victim so my circle of trust is staying put for now……all I could think was how hot and sexy SKB is. 😂😂

I too feel like Gabriela may actually be the villain or one of the villains. She was a counselor and grief is a powerful thing; she could have absolutely manipulated Sinatra. Or it could be a case of two complimentary horrible people finding each other and making each other worse. 

And I’m guessing it’s not intentional but there are some interesting and scary parallels to what is actually happening right now in the US. The billionaire class never has the best interests of the society at heart. NEVER. 

I love James Marsden as an actor, so I’m glad to see Cal is a decent guy at heart and wasn’t in on most of the shenanigans. 

Edited by ShellsandCheese
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txhorns79

txhorns79

2 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

Did he smuggle it in in an under seat carrier? Kidnap it from the dog farm upstate? I can’t come up with any explanation that seems plausible, even on this show. 

Haven't they been down there for years at this point?  I find it hard to believe he's been able to keep the dog a secret all this time. 

And the scientists were killed, not because they found the world was not as dead as it was made out to be, but because they found someone and tried to bring her back with them.  I would guess that means there are lots of survivors out there.   

 

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TiffanyNichelle

TiffanyNichelle

I feel like last week's episode was a turning point and the show has really hit it's stride because this one was so good. Everybody's back story is so depressing. I wonder if next week's will be Gabriella and how weird will that be or are they holding back on it until the end for a bigger impact?

Not being able to have a pet of any kind in the mountain would suck so I'm glad that guy was able to somehow sneak his in but I don't understand how no one knows. I know during the early Covid days I would have gone crazy if I didn't have two dogs to cuddle several times a day during the lockdowns.

I kept wondering if things really weren't that bad up top but it does seem like it is so part of me understands why Sinatra doesn't want people to know or for the scientists to bring people back. But I draw the line at her deciding on her own and having Billy kill the scientists.

I think it's nuts that Kane was able to keep his top level access even as his memories issues got worst. If they had restricted his access Cal never would have looked into things and found out what happened. I also think it's nuts he named his son after that Pearl Jam song, lol.

I thought for sure Kane was confusing Presley with Robinson just as he confused Jeremy with Cal so the reveal that she had the tablet was stunning. I also don't think she killed Cal. She was probably at the house to play Wii with Jane and Billy and Kane saw her there. Whoever killed Cal might have dropped the tablet and she found it. My money is on Jane being the killer.

Wherever Cal left that cd is also where he left the notebook or maybe the cd has the information from the notebook on here. Jeremy just needs to find either one.

2 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

I too feel like Gabriela may actually be the villain or one of the villains. She was a counselor and grief is a powerful thing; she could have absolutely manipulated Sinatra. Or it could be a case of two complimentary horrible people finding each other and making each other worse. 

I think that's why they might hold on to her back story until the end to make the reveal all that more impactful. I think she was well aware of what happened with Billy and the scientists and was playing dumb when Cal told her to be wary of him and let Xavier know. She's setting up Xavier to take down Sinatra in some way so that she can be in control of this little town where she handpicked every single person. I bet she even knew that guy would bring his dog.

The only person right now that Xavier can trust is Robinson.

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marinw

marinw

(edited)
14 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Haven't they been down there for years at this point?  I find it hard to believe he's been able to keep the dog a secret all this time. 

I think the dog is an open secret at this point. Lots of people know about it, and are choosing not to report it as it seems like a victimless crime.

Speaking of animals, if there are no insects what is pollinating all the vegetation? You at least need bees. And insects are an excellent source of protein.

Edited by marinw
Haleth

Haleth

(edited)

I should probably check back to see the first scene ever with Presley and Jeremy. Did they seem to know each other?  As I remember it they didn’t seem to know or like each other until recently, so she didn’t get the tablet from him and there is no reason to believe Cal knew her or would give her the tablet.  Maybe Billy did?  Could he have gotten into the safe while the security cameras were offline?  Does that make him complicit in the murder?

So what was Presley going to tell her dad before his inevitable interruption?  That someone gave her the tablet?  That’s 2 nights in a row someone had important information for him that didn’t get passed on  

I don’t trust Gabby either but if she is a villain why would she tip off Xav about Cal not trusting Billy?  Ok, maybe to take down Sinatra, but why not be more transparent about what she knows?

Yeah, so bringing someone in from the outside is not a good idea. We’ve all seen that post apocalyptic movie where people in a nice cozy enclave are attacked by survivors on the outside. Not condoning their murder by any means but it required some thought before allowing their location to be revealed.

We all know Xav’s wife survived, right?

I was afraid little dog man (Carl?) was doing something nefarious, but it seems like he’s a good guy on Xav’s side.  Who’s a good boy?  (I thought the favor was going to be letting the kids hide there.)

Boy oh boy, Kane is a piece of work, isn’t he?

 

Edited by Haleth
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SeanBug

SeanBug

11 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

Lord. When Xavier told Robinson you were dating the murder victim so my circle of trust is staying put for now……all I could think was how hot and sexy SKB is. 😂😂

I too feel like Gabriela may actually be the villain or one of the villains. She was a counselor and grief is a powerful thing; she could have absolutely manipulated Sinatra. Or it could be a case of two complimentary horrible people finding each other and making each other worse. 

And I’m guessing it’s not intentional but there are some interesting and scary parallels to what is actually happening right now in the US. The billionaire class never has the best interests of the society at heart. NEVER. 

I love James Marsden as an actor, so I’m glad to see Cal is a decent guy at heart and wasn’t in on most of the shenanigans. 

I was also wondering if this show is a commentary on billionaires, but wouldn't it have been filmed at least a year ago, before a certain billionaire was so blatantly courting a person running for POTUS. 

I'm not going to worry about the dog, I think it was just used as a ploy for Xavier to have a reason to ask James for a favor. I actually thought he was going to ask James to take the of the kids.  What James actually did blew my mind. 

I have had a mild crush on Sterling since "The People vs OJ Simpson". 

I love Marsden, too. 

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Anela

Anela

1 hour ago, SeanBug said:

I was also wondering if this show is a commentary on billionaires, but wouldn't it have been filmed at least a year ago, before a certain billionaire was so blatantly courting a person running for POTUS. 

I'm not going to worry about the dog, I think it was just used as a ploy for Xavier to have a reason to ask James for a favor. I actually thought he was going to ask James to take the of the kids.  What James actually did blew my mind. 

I have had a mild crush on Sterling since "The People vs OJ Simpson". 

I love Marsden, too. 

I wondered where he plans to take the kids, after he told them to pack some things. Is he going to take them to the surface? 

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chaifan

chaifan

(edited)

Wow!  That was a great episode!  

First, the timeline...  It seems they sent the scientists up top somewhat soon after they arrived and got settled.  Maybe just a month or so.  The carnival is the anniversary of that date.  So they've been down there about 13-15 months.  (Edited to add - I'm wrong.  As noted in a comment below, it has been stated they've been there 3 years.)

The dog...  I commented in the first or second thread that there didn't seem to be any live animals. From a strict resources standpoint, that makes sense.  I think it would be easy to smuggle a small dog like that in.  We've heard about cats climbing into suitcases and going on unintended trips.  But my guess is Carl smuggled him in with equipment for the tech center he works in before anyone got there.  I can't believe no one other than X and his family knows, though.  That's one quiet dog.  If I were building a city size bunker, I would have included a pet cafe type of set-up where people can come, interact with the animals on a limited basis.  Neuter all the males, have a sperm/egg bank to use IVF for the females as needed for population control.  Then when humans return up top, re-start the cat/dog population.  

5 hours ago, marinw said:

Speaking of animals, if there are no insect what in pollinating all the vegetation? You at least need bees.

Good point!  Gabriella talked about the insect noises being piped in.  

I loved how Cal was just walking around in his bathrobe for days.  He's all "this is NOT what I signed up for".  I agree that the CD holds info, not just music.  He's smart - to figure out a reason to use the library's computers, not his own, to get a message to Jeremy.  I loved the scenes with his Dad.  Gerald McRaney is killing it in that role.

I'm surprised Presley didn't fess up about being at the President's home for game nights once she knew he was murdered.  It sorta sounds like she was there that night, right?  I think that would be important for X to know.  However she got it, I can't think of any reason for her to be holding onto the tablet, not instantly giving it to either Jeremy or X.  

The bit with X standing in front on the lamp post/security camera was cheesy.  How did he know where it was pointing, and Sinatra just happening to be watching the feed at that moment was silly.  

4 hours ago, Haleth said:

I should probably check back to see the first scene ever with Presley and Jeremy. Did they seem to know each other?  

I definitely got the impression they knew each other before that scene in the library.  That makes sense for the President's kid and #1 secret service agent's kid.  I don't think they were close friends, but they knew each other.

Gabby vs. Sinatra...  I don't know what to believe at this point.  I've gone back and forth on both of them.  Sinatra is ruthless, but I posted earlier that I can totally understand her reasonings for not wanting people in or out of Paradise, as that can risk continuing the human race.  So she may be the good guy that has to make all the hard calls, and that includes killing people to keep the secret.  But, hitting Cal with a rock just doesn't seem her style (or Jane's), so  that makes me think Sinatra wasn't involved in Cal's death.  Unless they did that to purposely misdirect people...  aargh!  Gabriella could go either way at this point.  

Did I hear them right in saying that the woman the scientists found didn't speak English, or they couldn't understand her, or something like that?  

I still don't get how Jeremy has such easy access to going up top into the hangar and hanging out in Air Force One whenever he wants.  And I still don't get how that can happen if the air up top is not breathable.  

The show has been written for 3 seasons.  I could see Season 2 concentrating on life "up top", Xavier and a crew going on a mission to find survivors.  And the Season 3 being topsiders vs. Paradise.  

And, if Season 2 happens that way, would I be the only one hoping Will Forte and Kristen Schaal make cameo appearances?😁

 

 

Edited by chaifan
Correcting my timeline.
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anniebird

anniebird

(edited)
17 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

 

812092  —  it couldn’t be 29 February 2018 because 2018 was not a leap year.

812092  — it could be the location in the library where Cal stashed his notebook. He pretended to go there for the music.

 

812.092 in the Dewey Decimal system is biographies of American playwrights.

Edited by anniebird
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chaifan

chaifan

It doesn't make sense to me for the # to be tied to the book location.  I think Cal writing the # on a cigarette was for his purposes.  I don't think he would assume anyone would ever think to look in the cigarette package if something happened to him.  I really don't understand why Xavier even did that.  Xavier seemed to purposely take the cigarette package.  So maybe Cal and X had some system where they transmitted secret messages in the cigarette package, and Cal left it there for X to find.  But if so, then why wouldn't Cal make it more obvious what the # was?  Or why wouldn't Cal just tell X what he knew?  Cal obviously didn't know who he could trust, and that's why he didn't loop X in immediately.  

I think the # is something Cal needed to remember, but needed to hide.  Cal would remember where he put the book.  He doesn't need the DD # for that.

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TiffanyNichelle

TiffanyNichelle

3 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I had completely forgotten that he and Julianne Nicholson were regulars on Ally McBeal almost 25 years ago where they played a couple!

I completely forgot he was on that show. I loved when he would sing. I just looked up some clips of him singing on the show and the first one is him singing to her, lol.

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RunningMarket

RunningMarket

I had an alternate theory as to why Kane "recognized" Presley. He keeps thinking Jeremy is Cal, so maybe he also thought Presley was Robinson? He got angry when he saw them about to kiss, so maybe was (incorrectly in this case) telling his son to knock it off with his mistress.

I also wonder if Uncle Billy slipped Presley the tablet, but that would be harder to do unless Cal gave it to him.

Sinatra is up there with Aunt Lydia from Handmaid's Tale of "people on screen I'd like to punch".

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Paloma

Paloma

On 2/12/2025 at 10:24 AM, Haleth said:
On 2/12/2025 at 10:09 AM, chaifan said:

Did I hear them right in saying that the woman the scientists found didn't speak English, or they couldn't understand her, or something like that?

Yes. She thought Creole. 

She did think it was Creole, but that seems weird if the scientists went up to the surface in Colorado, where the underground town was built. Creole is mainly spoken in the Caribbean and, to a lesser extent, in Louisiana--so it doesn't seem likely that a Creole-speaking survivor would be in or near Colorado. Maybe the survivor was speaking a Native American language that the scientists mistook for Creole? But I don't know why of all possible survivors they would only find someone who did not speak English or another commonly spoken language in the US (e.g., Spanish). If it's supposed to be a clue that the survivor spoke Creole, I hope the writers follow up on that at some point.

 

On 2/12/2025 at 10:05 AM, Anela said:

I wondered where he plans to take the kids, after he told them to pack some things. Is he going to take them to the surface? 

With all the emphasis in a previous episode on Xavier's father being a pilot and Xavier wanting to be a pilot (and knowing how to fly a plane, IIRC), flying the kids out of there is certainly a possibility. But he should know how risky that is: even assuming he can escape with the plane, and assuming there is enough fuel, he doesn't know whether it is safe or livable on the surface. At a minimum he would need to take enough supplies (food, water, etc) to keep them alive for the few days he told the kids to pack for. 

It would make more sense if he was taking the kids to hide out somewhere in the bunker town while he tried to get more information, but I don't know where he could hide with all the surveillance.

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Anela

Anela

1 hour ago, Paloma said:

She did think it was Creole, but that seems weird if the scientists went up to the surface in Colorado, where the underground town was built. Creole is mainly spoken in the Caribbean and, to a lesser extent, in Louisiana--so it doesn't seem likely that a Creole-speaking survivor would be in or near Colorado. Maybe the survivor was speaking a Native American language that the scientists mistook for Creole? But I don't know why of all possible survivors they would only find someone who did not speak English or another commonly spoken language in the US (e.g., Spanish). If it's supposed to be a clue that the survivor spoke Creole, I hope the writers follow up on that at some point.

 

With all the emphasis in a previous episode on Xavier's father being a pilot and Xavier wanting to be a pilot (and knowing how to fly a plane, IIRC), flying the kids out of there is certainly a possibility. But he should know how risky that is: even assuming he can escape with the plane, and assuming there is enough fuel, he doesn't know whether it is safe or livable on the surface. At a minimum he would need to take enough supplies (food, water, etc) to keep them alive for the few days he told the kids to pack for. 

It would make more sense if he was taking the kids to hide out somewhere in the bunker town while he tried to get more information, but I don't know where he could hide with all the surveillance.

That's why I wondered where he would take them. I would think Sinatra would know every inch of that place. 

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circumvent

circumvent

This was the first episode I liked but still not sold on the whole premise because the holes still bother me. I will not speculate on the many things that happened because everyone here already had very good theories about Presley, the dog, who  really is in charge.

 FINALLY some resistance to being compliant in a hole while people can just decide if the day will be sunny or cloudy to "make things seem normal". This type of control is infantilizing in a way. Supposedly, the "chosen ones" were indispensable people and their families. So why do they need this type of cuddly lie? The only explanation is to control them, to keep emotions in check and the illusion alive,  while the billionaires go ahead with their coup - which in the end is a coup because there are survivors in the old order. How timely is this plot! How much do I want to see a guillotine in this show, reflected in real life!

As for the woman speaking Creole, I think they showed an image of a submarine (?) near what I believe is the tip of the Washington monument so maybe most of the continent is submerged, making it possible to move around on ships and boats. Long shot but hey, they are in a magical dome with food that self produces. Anything can happen

Poor Cal will be the first victim is Xavier's dive into the truth. Poor guy. 

One thing that annoys me in shows is when someone has something very important to tell another person but the second person thinks their thing is more important and cannot listen. Presley knows how important the tablet is but she simply shuts up because Xavier is so assertive and thinks what he is doing is more important. So used in shows and such a preposterous concept. Just to add to the "tension". I just get more annoyed by the trope

How many episodes left? I am not sure they can solve half the mysteries before the season ends, then the wait for another year to solve them will likely make me very disinterested. 

 

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chaifan

chaifan

3 hours ago, circumvent said:

 FINALLY some resistance to being compliant in a hole while people can just decide if the day will be sunny or cloudy to "make things seem normal". This type of control is infantilizing in a way. Supposedly, the "chosen ones" were indispensable people and their families. So why do they need this type of cuddly lie?

I don't understand what you want the rest of the population to be non-compliant about.  Or what you mean by the "cuddly lie".  Is the cuddly lie a) the covering up of Cal's murder, b) the lie that there are no survivors up top and that earth is not habitable, or c) just the fake suburbia, blue sky, weather control, etc.?

If the world were ending, and I was chosen as one of 25,000 to survive, and I was given very comfortable, idyllic surroundings in which to live the rest of my life, I'd be damn grateful to be alive and would be hard pressed to find something to complain about.  It certainly wouldn't be about someone else being able to decide if today would be cloudy or sunny.  Somebody's gotta do it.  Just like someone controls the thermostat in your office - it's probably not you, you may not like the temperature they choose, but would you consider it infantilizing?

I don't consider this a billionaire's coup, either.  What's the alternative?  Just let everyone on earth die?  Paradise wouldn't exist if Sinatra didn't make it so.  If Sinatra's current goal is a coup, she wouldn't have recreated the US gov't, kept the President.  If her only goal was to personally survive the disaster and live in comfort and be the one in charge, she could have built a personal bunker, or a city for 100, and kept the gov't out of it.  

If the "cuddly lie" is the entire fake suburbia, I can see why it's needed.   They presumed people would be locked in for 100 years, so psychologically, it makes sense to make things as normal as possible.  And, when the future generations are able to go back up top, you'd want them to know what a "normal" life is like, so they can rebuild that.  And it's really not a lie - everyone knows everything is fake, down to the ducks. 

If the "cuddly lie" is Cal's murder, I can see the rationale, although I might not agree with it.  You don't want panic in such a small space, and people thinking a murderer is running loose would cause that.  And I don't think everyone was picked because they're indispensable.  We've seen cleaning ladies, grocery store clerks, bus drivers, etc.  I doubt those are billionaire's children that were just given jobs to do.  They'd be everyday people, and you need everyday people to run a society.  

If the "cuddly lie" is the killing of the scientists and lying about no life on top, again, I can understand the rationale even though I might not agree with it.  I posted on this earlier, that I can see this lie as part of the "greater good", to ensure Paradise lasts 100 years and the human race will survive.  

For me, I can see the rationale in what we've seen Sinatra and the other people in charge do.  It's not always pretty, but it makes sense to me if preserving the human race is the ultimate goal.  Is there ego and self preservation involved?  Sure.  But I think it's bigger than that.

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circumvent

circumvent

5 hours ago, chaifan said:

I don't understand what you want the rest of the population to be non-compliant about.

Never, in the history of ever, putting a few people in charge of many without any accountability has resulted in everyone being happy about being ordered around. 

Assuming they lived in a world that resembles our experiences here, in the real world, it is very hard to accept that a bunch of billionaires would be able to tell people what to do, surveil them, control what and what cannot be done. The most hated people on the planet are billionaires. Even the ones who were "chosen" would have a problem with that. Resistance always appears in places where there is control from a few of many. Besides, those people who are there must be "grateful" for the chance to survive a catastrophic event but they also have extended family members who were left behind. Xavier has a grudge but he is portrayed as loyal and clearly is the hero of the show. What makes you believe others don't feel the same way?

Cudly means, they have everything and don't have to worry about anything. That's a dull life and humans without curiosity and dreams are brain dead. That wasn't explained in the show, what do the people think is supposed to happen? Food is limited, how long will everything last? Can they procreate? 

There is a parallel to what is happening in real life. Billionaires are building bunkers for themselves and their families, plus whoever they decide to bring when the end is near. They have former SEAL people as their security because they believe they will be able to survive and ride the post apocalyptic world until it is safe to open the hatches (hahaha). Then someone pointed out to them that in a bunker, their money is worthy nothing and stronger people, including the SEAL people, can just control it all. 

Violence is part of human DNA. Selfishness, individualism, are part of the American DNA. Empathy is in short supply and empaths would never be allowed. It is a doomed premise and they would kill themselves in a bunker. In a fake world under a mountain, 20 thousand people would not be contained after a while without some serious doping to keep them from thinking and questioning. Dissent is also part of the human experience. If they chose "important people" or the "best brains", those brains are not just working on their field. If they are, they are partially brain dead and are not really human. Questioning means critical thinking. The best of the best must have critical thinking, no? What keeps them from exercising that?

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Broderbits

Broderbits

On 2/15/2025 at 10:38 AM, chaifan said:

If Sinatra's current goal is a coup, she wouldn't have recreated the US gov't, kept the President.

I haven't seen any evidence of the "US gov't" except a figurehead president clearly under the control of Sinatra. The coup happened before they even went underground. The billionaires club controls the information, the surveillance, the food and medical supplies; hell, they even control the weather.

I wonder if there are similar facilities in other countries, like Russia.

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chaifan

chaifan

50 minutes ago, Broderbits said:

I haven't seen any evidence of the "US gov't" except a figurehead president clearly under the control of Sinatra. The coup happened before they even went underground. The billionaires club controls the information, the surveillance, the food and medical supplies; hell, they even control the weather.

First, I'm going to say it's hard not to start drawing real life comparisons with billionaires being in charge of gov't.  But we're supposed to stay out of politics on this site, and I'm trying to do that.  Just let me say that I think we're all on the same page in that regards.

So, in trying to discuss this show as a purely fictional scenario, I'm operating under a few assumptions.  The first that this that Paradise is a public/private venture.  From everything we've seen, it looks like Sinatra was the driving force - she believed the climate guy at the conference, and she convinced Cal it was going to happen.  Paradise wouldn't exist without her.  We don't know if Sinatra put Cal into the White House, but I think that's going to turn out to be the case.  We know Cal was serving a "third term", which was approved specifically because of the impending disaster. 

We've seen boardroom scenes, which I just have assumed to be their version of a President's cabinet.  I don't think those are all billionaires, as a few of the scientists on the plane have been in that room.  So I'm not ready to concede that the gov't is only figurehead, or that this is a "billionaire's coup".  That may turn out to be correct, maybe Sinatra has the final word on everything, but I just haven't seen it yet.  So my second assumption is that the gov't we have seen is legitimate.

Yes, Sinatra was calling the shots on how to handle Cal's death, what to tell the people.  But she didn't instill herself as President - the VP took over, as he should have.  The fact that Cal knew where the guns were also tells me the gov't has meaning.  Otherwise, she'd keep that a secret between herself and her hired guns.  Paradise is Sinatra's creation, so it makes sense to me that she would wield a lot of power, even if it is in the "man behind the curtain" type of way.

So this is why I'm not convinced it's a "billionaire's club" controlling everything.  Bottom line, someone has to be controlling everything - everything - in that type of environment.   And decisions on most things would have been made long before residents were selected, let alone moved in.  In normal life, we willingly allow much of our lives to be "controlled" by gov't in a million ways, zoning laws, food regulations, traffic laws, school textbooks, EPA, OSHA, etc etc etc.  And we agree to it because that's how society works.  In Paradise, I might not like there not being bacon (or maybe even all meat) or cheese, but what's my choice?  The decision was made long ago, and nothing can change it.  No amount of dissent will make a cow appear.  If someone wasn't controlling the weather, how would it work?  I'd rather have a fake dome/sky with fake night/day than just be looking at the roof of the cave they dug.  

The only IRL comparison to Paradise that I can think of is going into the military.  You're there voluntarily, but once you sign up you agree to just about every aspect of your life being controlled by someone else.  Much of it sucks, especially in the beginning, and not everyone can hack it, but most do.  I know, this really isn't close to being shut into a (pretty) cave for 100 years, but it's as close as I can get.  

I don't mean to get argumentative.  I just really like the premise that this show has set out, and I love thinking about the "how does this all work" part of Paradise.  I like sci-fi, and how to build a new world comes up a lot in that genre, too.  This show was conceived before Fogelman even launched This is Us (2016), so any similarity to IRL events I have to assume are coincidental.  

 

1 hour ago, Broderbits said:

I wonder if there are similar facilities in other countries, like Russia.

I've wondered this myself.  You'd think there would have to be.  Maybe not as big, if they didn't have the foresight/head start Sinatra did, but it would make sense for there to be something else out there.  But if so, you'd also think they would have figured out some way for them all to be in communication somehow.  Satellite based communications?  Old fashioned underground/water telegraph cables?  Drones?  Carrier pigeons?

 

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Broderbits

Broderbits

8 minutes ago, chaifan said:

But if so, you'd also think they would have figured out some way for them all to be in communication somehow.  Satellite based communications?  Old fashioned underground/water telegraph cables?  Drones?  Carrier pigeons?

How about the good old Birds Are Government Drones theory? But seriously, I could believe that any surviving groups are spying on each other and not communicating.

In other news, I really thought this episode would end by showing us that Cal was killed by his father.

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juliet73

juliet73

(edited)

What if the killer is Cal’s dad?  Either not remembering that Cal is his son or knowing Cal is his son and knows he could expose everything! But after he kills Cal, he doesn’t remember doing it. Just like when he grabbed Xavier’s daughter and when Jeremy confronts him shorty after, he has no recollection of doing it. 
Or maybe it was the VP? Have we heard/seen from him since he got sworn in? 
I love this crazy show!  Especially this episode and the previous!

Edited by juliet73
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