SO2.EO3: Who is Alive?

[Affogato]

The white (VW) Rabbit…..

[KarenX]

Now there are three blue turtleneck sweaters! Milchick’s from Mark’s first day back, Helly R’s in this episode, and Gretchen G’s in this episode.

[dwmarch]

What the glorious fuck is going on?!

The goat herders are an eclectic bunch and they seem to be concerned about human-kangaroo hybrids. They also know Ms. Casey.

We finally encountered someone else who knows what that spooky elevator is all about. Something to do with "exports". O&D used to do it themselves but now "a guy" is sent.

Lumon re-did all the old Keir paintings to make Keir black! I get the impression that Milchick is not as impressed by this as he is supposed to be. Not sure if they fixed his screensaver yet.

Lots of Natalie in this episode, she seems to be playing a bigger role this season.

Nice to see that Dylan's visiting wife is his actual wife. I thought they'd trick him with a fake wife. And how exactly did they pull all that gear out of the security office to turn it into a little lounge so quickly?

Loved Mark (outie) dunking on Ricken's book and Devon kind of agreeing.

Also loved Mrs. Cobel getting an invite to speak to the board and noping the fuck out of there. Reminded me of a similar scene in Goodfellas.

That end scene was awesome. Same thing as a Lumon orientation but in reverse and now presumably Mark S and Mark Scout are one. Very well done visuals, music, everything.

 

[arc]

The "re-canonicalized" race-swapped pictures of Kier were certainly something. I wonder if Natalie is so far gone she couldn't tell that Milchick's reaction was not gratitude. Because she kinda looks like she might have just a tiny hint of "can you believe these white people?" but it is so suppressed that Milchick certainly doesn't feel comfortable expressing his true feelings.

Mammalians Nurturable is so much creepier than O&D ever was. Holy shit. Are these people regular outie/innies? Do their outies wonder why they go home smelling like grass and goats? And what about the guy who dresses up as a goat down there? Presumably he wears normal work clothes down and up his elevator, but still.

WHOA, the outie family visitation wasn't a lie???? And Gretchen wasn't even a fake wife??? Wow.

Helena getting chauffeured makes total sense EXCEPT it's a big contrast to poor outie Helly from the pilot trudging to her car in the outer edge of the parking lot. Again, very obvious the "Helly's outie is an Eagan" idea came up relatively late in season one and they didn't patch everything up seamlessly.

Anyways, that parking lot showdown with Cobel and Helena was amazing. Helena is stone cold.

Hahaha, it's amazing Lumon even thought about retinal afterimages.

I'm glad Reghabi made it out of s1 alive but I'm real scared she won't make it out of s2. Just for narrative, it would be unsatisfying if Drummond goes out like Graner did, after all. Wait, is she pouring a salt circle??? Is reintegration literally techno-witchcraft? ... oh, it's magnetic fillings?

Wow, our boy is reintegrated!!!!! I really appreciate the show moving the plot along and instead of stalling.

Is there any significance to doing the credits in black-on-white for the first time?

[maddie965]

Wow this show is a rollercoaster from hell and I love it! Goats, Mammalians, real wives, brain waves, reintegration!!!

I wonder if the reintegration will be a fleeting thing, just a few minutes and they will be separated again, or if Mark is a whole person now. If he is, what a game-changer! Love that this show is not afraid to advance the plot, like arc said, while series like Silo spend months without going anywhere. I'm so done with that show!

Back to Severance, now I'm thinking that Hely is really Hely, unless Helena is a great actress. Not sure Helena could fake so much empathy for Irv (loved that moment) and Mark. She doesn't seem to care about anyone but herself. 

How much do I love that scene between Irv and Felicia? I cried when they hugged.

What a perfect hour of television!

Edited Friday at 10:53 AM by maddie965

[Ms Lark]

Am I the only one who thinks "Cold Harbor" has to do with cryonics? Anyway, I've been thinking about that for a while. Resurrecting the dead Keir dynasty?

Reghabi tentatively said Gemma was alive last time she saw her, but could she have been in a deep freeze? Not sure where they're going with this, especially since Mark is ever so critical to the project.

Good episode. Lots happened. OK, if no cloning why did Goat Lady Gwendoline ask to see their bellies. Checking for navels? Innies or outies? Clones traditionally don't have belly buttons.

I too want to know if goat herder innies stink to high heaven when they leave. Maybe they get to take showers? Course could always be more red herrings.

[Affogato]

2 hours ago, Ms Lark said:

Am I the only one who thinks "Cold Harbor" has to do with cryonics? Anyway, I've been thinking about that for a while. Resurrecting the dead Keir dynasty?

No, the ‘board’ (which may be only Kier, or a collection of other deceased family members) may well be in frozen sleep and the project may be trying to bring them back to life. The whole Kier business is also a religion (Rikon’s book originally inspired dissention in the ranks and they wisely want to adjust it to inspire obedience) and we are awaiting the second coming of Kier. Prepare the way.

 

[iMonrey]

This show is starting to remind me of Lost and Twin Peaks, and that's not a good thing. Instead of getting answers the show keeps piling up more questions on more questions. I spent the entire episode going WTF? WTF? WTF?

The goat people, for example, seem weird just for the sake of being weird. Whatever reason Lumon has for having goats, there's no particular reason the people minding them have to be so damn weird. 

How did Reghabi even find Mark? He was sitting in his car, seemingly in some out of the way place, and she just showed up like magic. Or did he call her and ask her to meet him there? Does he have her phone number?

Natalie is either a robot or possessed or being radio controlled. She just acts so damn weird.

6 hours ago, maddie965 said:

Back to Severance, now I'm thinking that Hely is really Hely, unless Helena is a great actress.

You know, I was sort of back to thinking she's really Helly too, because when they entered the goat room, the look on her face was total shock, and Mark's back was to her. She had no reason to act. Then again, I guess it's possible this is a part of Lumon that even Helena doesn't know about.

6 hours ago, Ms Lark said:

Good episode. Lots happened. OK, if no cloning why did Goat Lady Gwendoline ask to see their bellies. Checking for navels? Innies or outies? Clones traditionally don't have belly buttons.

They were checking for pouches. It seems like the other departments have been fed lies, or developed legends, about the macro data refiners. If you recall, when they first were introduced to O&D last season, the O&D people though refiners had some weird physical thing too. I assume this dates back to an earlier rebellion which left MDR with a bad reputation.

3 hours ago, Affogato said:

No, the ‘board’ (which may be only Kier, or a collection of other deceased family members) may well be in frozen sleep and the project may be trying to bring them back to life.

It's got to be something like that. If we ever cut to the actual board some day I fully expect to see either empty seats, or just statues of dead Kier family members.

[juno]

11 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

This show is starting to remind me of Lost and Twin Peaks, and that's not a good thing. Instead of getting answers the show keeps piling up more questions on more questions. I spent the entire episode going WTF? WTF? WTF?

The goat people, for example, seem weird just for the sake of being weird. Whatever reason Lumon has for having goats, there's no particular reason the people minding them have to be so damn weird. 

How did Reghabi even find Mark? He was sitting in his car, seemingly in some out of the way place, and she just showed up like magic. Or did he call her and ask her to meet him there? Does he have her phone number?

Natalie is either a robot or possessed or being radio controlled. She just acts so damn weird.

You know, I was sort of back to thinking she's really Helly too, because when they entered the goat room, the look on her face was total shock, and Mark's back was to her. She had no reason to act. Then again, I guess it's possible this is a part of Lumon that even Helena doesn't know about.

They were checking for pouches. It seems like the other departments have been fed lies, or developed legends, about the macro data refiners. If you recall, when they first were introduced to O&D last season, the O&D people though refiners had some weird physical thing too. I assume this dates back to an earlier rebellion which left MDR with a bad reputation.

It's got to be something like that. If we ever cut to the actual board some day I fully expect to see either empty seats, or just statues of dead Kier family members.

Yes, but we finally got the answer we have been waiting for. What does Mark and Hely's stomach look like?

[Ms Lark]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

This show is starting to remind me of Lost and Twin Peaks, and that's not a good thing.

Yeah, especially when TPTB at Lost kept insisting it wasn't anything to do with purgatory and, lo, guess what? So, even though Severance PTB say it's not clones and no one has even come close to guessing, I bet they're fibbing about some stuff.

Twin Peaks just got really odd at the end. RIP David Lynch, but the dude needed to be on a super tight leash or he would go way off the rails!

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

They were checking for pouches

Ah ha. Of course. I like the goats, but I still think they are leading us astray with that. Although, there's all that goat symbology with Kier and all. Dang. I give up.

Edited Friday at 07:18 PM by Ms Lark

[questionfear]

9 hours ago, arc said:

 

Helena getting chaufured makes total sense EXCEPT it's a big contrast to poor outie Helly from the pilot trudging to her car in the outer edge of the parking lot. Again, very obvious the "Helly's outie is an Eagan" idea came up relatively late in season one and they didn't patch everything up seamlessly.

Anyways, that parking lot showdown with Cobel and Helena was amazing. Helena is stone cold.

 

There's a few possibilities there beyond retcon IMO.

Helena might have had to be severed as penance for something, and now that she's proven herself/behaved she gets the trappings of being an Eagan again. 

She also might have received an upgrade in status over the course of the first season, or her access to super important severed Mark has bumped up her value. 

Or they wanted her to cross paths with Mark in the parking lot, specifically to measure if he recognized her. 

[meep.meep]

10 hours ago, arc said:

 

Hahaha, it's amazing Lumon even thought about retinal afterimages.

Isn't that what allows Irv's Outie to do his paintings of the inside?

[arc]

3 hours ago, meep.meep said:

Isn't that what allows Irv's Outie to do his paintings of the inside?

No, cause pre-heartbreak Irv had no grudge against Lumon and certainly would never try to smuggle information out. I don’t think he even knows where the Exports hallway/down elevator is or what it was before he saw the paintings in full on the outside. It remains a mystery how outie Irv knows about it, though it seems that severance isn’t as total as Lumon would like to believe. He was able to somewhat influence innie Irv by subjecting their shared body to sleep deprivation and a sort of induced obsession with the hallway.

My new half-serious theory about the board is that they are corporeal/alive, because they saw Hamilton and that’s how they got the idea to give their Black employees the paintings of Black Kier Eagan.

Edit: one other thought: is Gretchen's night job at Lumon? Does she already know Milchick? Because given how Milchick talked to the Hales and Scout in ep 2 -- consistently calling Mark "Mr Scout" -- suggests regular outsiders would never call Milchick "Seth".

Edited Saturday at 12:38 AM by arc

[Pi237]

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

This show is starting to remind me of Lost and Twin Peaks, and that's not a good thing. Instead of getting answers the show keeps piling up more questions on more questions. I spent the entire episode going WTF? WTF? WTF?

The goat people, for example, seem weird just for the sake of being weird. Whatever reason Lumon has for having goats, there's no particular reason the people minding them have to be so damn weird. 

 

I was thinking the Exact same thing-this better not be weird just for weird’s sake, and it definitely felt that way.  I hope the writers don’t keep adding bizarre characters that don’t serve the plot just because they worry viewers will guess the big secrets. I don’t care about spoilers if it’s well done and ties everything together. I don’t want to be sent on another wild goose chase like Lost and ‘the Others.’

Natalie looked like she was starting to cry while trying to maintain her brainwashed smile about the paintings.  Kier in blackface. Wow. 
 

Great ending.  

[dwmarch]

2 hours ago, Pi237 said:

Natalie looked like she was starting to cry while trying to maintain her brainwashed smile about the paintings.  Kier in blackface. Wow. 

Saying that she got the exact same gift reads to me like a half-assed attempt at solidarity but also a subtle plea for Milchick to go along if he wants to get along. Milchick was wise enough not to verbally respond with "bitch, please" but he thought it loudly enough that she got the message. It'll be interesting to see what side Natalie lands on. I think she's a true believer but there is a tiny bit of empathy there, buried deep beneath the combination of fear and privilege that comes with being a higher up at Lumon.

[arc]

just doing a scattered partial rewatch. The pilot episode has Irv greet the Macrodats (minus Petey, and before Helly joins) with "Hi kids. What's for dinner", which annoys the other two, and they question the premise of the joke entirely:
 

Quote

 

Mark: And it's confusing. Like, did the kids make you dinner in this scenario? Or --

Dylan: Yeah, what kind of a shit dad are you?

 

It's all connected!!!

[lovett1979]

12 hours ago, dwmarch said:

Saying that she got the exact same gift reads to me like a half-assed attempt at solidarity but also a subtle plea for Milchick to go along if he wants to get along. 

She does not volunteer that information, though. She says "The board wants me to tell you that I got the same present and I loved it" (not the exact language, but the point is that the Board tells her to say she got the gift and also that she loved it). The drop of her smile, the tears in her eyes, the silence between them is filled with so much storytelling.

[iMonrey]

4 minutes ago, lovett1979 said:

She does not volunteer that information, though. She says "The board wants me to tell you that I got the same present and I loved it" (not the exact language, but the point is that the Board tells her to say she got the gift and also that she loved it). The drop of her smile, the tears in her eyes, the silence between them is filled with so much storytelling.

We don't really know if there is a board, though. 

[arc]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

We don't really know if there is a board, though. 

There was that time when Natalie was dressing down Cobel and the latter asked if the board was even there, and someone replied “yes” on the speaker.

[Starchild]

On 1/31/2025 at 4:10 PM, arc said:

It remains a mystery how outie Irv knows about it

Maybe reintegrated Petey contacted Irv's outie too?

[ofmd]

OK, so before I read up on anyone else's thoughts... The zombie goat people are castaways of Cold Harbor, right? Some Frankenstein Monsters born without a nave (pouch) I assume.

And Lumen wants to use them as vessels to try and 'harbor' the personalities of dead or dying people, probably Eagans. Kier or current whatshisname.

Maybe Ms Solveg is so eager to work there because she wants to revive someone too, e.g. her mother?

Edited Sunday at 02:01 AM by ofmd

[Ms Lark]

More goat bell?

[aghst]

I believe in the Inside the Episode, the actor playing Milchick says his character isn't cool with the paintings and he and Natalie exchange some knowing graces, some pauses in Natalie's smiling, to indicate that they're at least thinking WTF, while trying to appear grateful.

Yeah they better explain things like the goat people, not just be some quirk for sake of quirk.

Mark and Helly really exchanged a lot of glances before going into the goat room.  She's into him if she's willing to crawl behind him, through a narrow duct-sized hallway with goat shit on the floor.

Then they literally summoned a possibly angry mob with pitchforks.

The Dylan and Merrit Weaver scene, didn't think much of it at the time but The Ringer podcast pointed out that compared to her scene with the Outie Dylan, who has struggled to hold a job, Gretchen has more chemistry with Innie Dylan, who's almost like a new man to her and she may actually be crushing on him.

Then you had Irv's convo with Felicia.  It's interesting how everyone is mainly addressed by the first name with last name initial at most.  I don't know if it implies more personal ties between these characters.  You have Ms. Hwang and Natalie with the same creepy fake smile but they always use first names, last initial.  But they communicate pretty impersonal things, like you've earned 18 minutes of time with your wife.

In the goat room, Mark and Helly appeal to them personally and the goat people respond because of their personal remembrances of Gemma.

I wonder if Mark's reintegration will stick.  She didn't remove the implant and it may be an experimental procedure.  Plus, how many more episodes can they have if Mark is permanently whole, back and armed with knowledge of the inside, it wouldn't take long to close in on what happened to Gemma.

The Ringer Prestige podcast said that they're filming this in the old Bell Labs and the reason is to convey this kind of Soviet austerity.  Or at least back in the 60s, the heyday of Bell Labs, things were more basic.  So in that context, treats like pineapples are seen as exotic and not as mundane as would be the case if a contemporary company offered that as a form of compensation.

I was thinking the winter landscapes looked like something out of Fargo.  It seems like a small company town where Lumon is the biggest or maybe even the only employer.  Certainly easier for them to dominate a small town than some metropolitan area.

 

 

[arc]

47 minutes ago, aghst said:

The Ringer Prestige podcast said that they're filming this in the old Bell Labs and the reason is to convey this kind of Soviet austerity.

There was a brief discussion of this in the s1 thread. I brought up the location and @xaxatsaid the show nails the vibe of pre-Silicon Valley tech, back when tech was more based in the northeast. So not necessarily Soviet austerity as 1960s-era Big (American) Tech. IBM, Digital Equipment Corp, that sort of thing.

 

56 minutes ago, aghst said:

Mark and Helly really exchanged a lot of glances before going into the goat room.  

I really think that's Helena. If Helly wanted a kiss there, she would have just kissed Mark. Helena's unsure of herself, so she was hoping Mark would make a move.

Also, the specific circumstances of their walk down the hallway -- Helly holding the "Missing:" sketch -- mean it's harder to tell, but she doesn't seem to walk like Helly did in s1. Helena and Helly are both very confident, but Helena on the outside walks in a quietly confident way; Helly has a swagger, almost stomping her way down the hallways. It's most noticeable in how her arms swing as she walks.

Probably the most implausible thing about this whole show is how Devon is so awesome but she's married to Ricken who kinda sucks.

[anniebird]

3 hours ago, arc said:

 

Probably the most implausible thing about this whole show is how Devon is so awesome but she's married to Ricken who kinda sucks.

This may be the biggest mystery of all about Severance.

[AstridM]

On 1/31/2025 at 4:45 AM, arc said:

Again, very obvious the "Helly's outie is an Eagan" idea came up relatively late in season one and they didn't patch everything up seamlessly.

I don’t believe this at all 🤷‍♀️

[ombre]

The actor playing helly/Helena has done an extraordinary job walking the line between I'm awkward because I don't know where I stand and I'm awkward because I'm just performing the role of someone else. 

 

Likewise, the actor playing Natalie has an astonishing abily to make sure that whatever emotion is on her face never reaches her eyes. 

 

I have no interest in guessing at the things the show is keeping deliberately ambiguous. It's interesting enough to look at how seeing the actions through the ambiguous lens allows multiple readings of the same scenes. Is Natalie digging the pictures or screaming inside? (was it on this board where someone noted how easy it is to see her constant smile as a rictus of pain? I read that observation recently and can't stop thinking about it.) is hel* really having these emotions or play-acting in the role of her Enslaved self because she's so jealous of that Enslaved self's life that she's willing to steal even that?  

 

I've got to say, in my real life, I have reason to spend a lot of time reading American slave narratives. I have seen few modern pieces that so thoroughly explore the dynamics of American slavery. I keep wondering how conscious the references are. The concreteness of the idea of re-writing what's-his-face's book to make a innie version (similar to how there were slave versions of the Bible), has made me feel like the references are getting more and more pointed. 

 

I'm also really loving the theme that they seem to be exploring more in this season - the ways that innies are like children (new to the world, lots of unfamiliar situations, didn't ask to be born/made, etc). The scene with Dylan and Gretchen was so extraordinary. It felt like he was a little boy and she was having to introduce him to some huge new idea. But the moment when she started talking about their kids it felt like he grew up (or at least wanted to) in some extraordinary way. 

 

[BfrankT]

On 1/31/2025 at 12:55 PM, iMonrey said:

This show is starting to remind me of Lost and Twin Peaks, and that's not a good thing. Instead of getting answers the show keeps piling up more questions on more questions.

I was thinking that Black Mirror would have packed this whole thing into one crackerjack episode....

[AheadofStraight]

On 2/2/2025 at 5:20 AM, aghst said:

The Dylan and Merrit Weaver scene, didn't think much of it at the time but The Ringer podcast pointed out that compared to her scene with the Outie Dylan, who has struggled to hold a job, Gretchen has more chemistry with Innie Dylan, who's almost like a new man to her and she may actually be crushing on him.

 

I didn't pick up on that at all but Ben Stiller and Adam Scott mentioned it on the official podcast as well. 

[Ilovepie]

On 2/2/2025 at 2:20 AM, aghst said:

The Dylan and Merrit Weaver scene, didn't think much of it at the time but The Ringer podcast pointed out that compared to her scene with the Outie Dylan, who has struggled to hold a job, Gretchen has more chemistry with Innie Dylan, who's almost like a new man to her and she may actually be crushing on him.

OMG totally! This is what I love about this show - I was thinking that of course that's a fake wife, but no - it's his actual Outie wife! They zigged when I thought they would zag!

Letting them meet is so messed up. The Innies are developing their own personalities and stories that are shaped by completely different experiences, and introducing Gretchen to Innie Dylan is actually so horrible for both of them - Innie Dylan is a completely different person at this point than the Outie she is married to. And by telling Dylan you can have this but only if you keep it a secret from the MDR team is very isolating. It was hard watching him distance himself from the team. Devious!

I honestly cannot say if that's Helly or Helena. I just don't know, and I think either is plausible at this point. And I do think Innie Mark wants to find "Ms. Casey", but she is not Innie Mark's wife, and I don't know what he will do when he does. Is this going to be some weird love triangle? Does Outie Mark know who Helena Eagan is? If he does, that is going to be crazy when he's reintegrated!

On 1/31/2025 at 9:55 AM, iMonrey said:

This show is starting to remind me of Lost and Twin Peaks, and that's not a good thing.

Ha! This show is filling a Lost-shaped hole in my heart, and for me it is a good thing. Despite the flaws, I love the weirdness and still have fond memories of Lost, especially the early seasons. 

[ahpny]

On 2/2/2025 at 5:20 AM, aghst said:

I wonder if Mark's reintegration will stick.  She didn't remove the implant and it may be an experimental procedure.

While much of this is hard to process and frustratingly opaque, one of the many things that doesn't seem to make any sense is that a severed person would be "unsevered" in a few minutes by merely attaching a few electrodes and turning a dial. Whatever minumal technobabel there was about that didn't offer any hint of how this could be remotely plausable given the conceit of this show. 

Another point that didn't sit well is the gratuitous insert Corbel hurls at Helena about making on her own merit as opposed to being "born into it." However true that may be, a person as bright and ambituous as Corbel should understand that voicing that complaint can't possiby advance her cause. Then again, Corbel is clealy shown to be unhinged to a large degree, which makes you wonder how a company like Lumon could hire her in the first place for anything. The contrast between Corbel's loss of control and Helena's almost Vulcan (as in Star Trek) contenance is quite sharp, and maybe that's part of the point.

Edited Monday at 07:33 PM by ahpny

[Kirbyrun]

1 hour ago, ahpny said:

While much of this is hard to process and frustratingly opaque, one of the many things that doesn't seem to make any sense is that a severed person would be "unsevered" in a few minutes by merely attaching a few electrodes and turning a dial. Whatever minumal technobabel there was about that didn't offer any hint of how this could be remotely plausable given the conceit of this show. 

Another point that didn't sit well is the gratuitous insert Corbel hurls at Helena about making on her own merit as opposed to being "born into it." However true that may be, a person as bright and ambituous as Corbel should understand that voicing that complaint can't possiby advance her cause. Then again, Corbel is clealy shown to be unhinged to a large degree, which makes you wonder how a company like Lumon could hire her in the first place for anything. The contrast between Corbel's loss of control and Helena's almost Vulcan (as in Star Trek) contenance is quite sharp, and maybe that's part of the point.

Cobel, to me, reads like someone who was a true believer, someone desperate for meaning in her life, who found the Eagan Way and clung to it...

Then she works her way into the cult's inner circle and realizes it's all bullshit. And she can't quite bring herself to sever (oops) from them, but also can't continue cleaving unto them.

Harmony's gonna go through some things.

[arc]

On 2/2/2025 at 2:20 AM, aghst said:

I wonder if Mark's reintegration will stick.  She didn't remove the implant and it may be an experimental procedure.

Petey’s reintegration didn’t involve removing his implant. Cobel later extracted the chip from his corpse. And then someone ran tests on it; Milchick reported to Cobel that the chip showed signs of reintegration.

[aghst]

44 minutes ago, arc said:

Petey’s reintegration didn’t involve removing his implant. Cobel later extracted the chip from his corpse. And then someone ran tests on it; Milchick reported to Cobel that the chip showed signs of reintegration.

I don't mean from a science or pseudoscience POV.  After all this severance tech is just made up.

I mean more like from storytelling POV, the show only being in the second season, it might be a better story for him to relapse into severed halves.  

Also they may want to keep the series going several seasons so if Mark the main character has to struggle with not knowing everything that he's experienced, that might keep the plot going longer.

[peachmangosteen]

On 1/31/2025 at 2:17 PM, Ms Lark said:

Yeah, especially when TPTB at Lost kept insisting it wasn't anything to do with purgatory and, lo, guess what?

THEY WEREN'T DEAD THE WHOLE TIME.

Lost slander will always annoy me lol. I mean, sure, the writers did nothing but lie in interviews and sure every question wasn't answered but those characters and stories were fucking great and that's literally all I care about.

Anyway, I do think this show is probably going the Lost route where the plot makes no real sense but for now I'm still having fun. I don't particularly care about most of the characters though tbh.

Edited Monday at 11:47 PM by peachmangosteen

[AstridM]

Lord I hope not. THERE IS A REASON I NEVER WATCHED LOST, LMAO 😂

[aghst]

They better not go the Lost route.  That would be burning a lot of good will.

Lost show runners infamously got together with Disney and agreed on a multiple season series map.

They were motivated by money, not telling the best story.  They had to keep the show on the air a certain number of seasons or episodes.

They produced 121 episodes over 6 seasons, to sell ad time, to get enough for syndication or DVD sales or whatever.

So it was full of filler episodes and they threw out events and back stories, just to keep it going.

They really could have resolved the mystery in 1/3 the number of episodes but let financial incentives guide them above all else.

Even then, it was an unsatisfactory ending and of course they didn't tie up all the loose ends -- people were still left asking WTF is the smoke monster.

Pretty cynical way to string loyal viewers along.

 

[peachmangosteen]

I miss when shows didn’t have to be 8-12 episode seasons of all plot. Bring back filler episodes!

That being said, not every show needs to have long seasons or tons of seasons and this is certainly the type that doesn’t. 

I just think people should prepare themselves for not every single thing being explained in a concrete manner. I think that’s just the nature of this kind of show. Some of it is gonna just be ‘for the vibes’ lol or just like up for viewer interpretation.

Edited Yest. at 12:34 AM by peachmangosteen

[Kirbyrun]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

THEY WEREN'T DEAD THE WHOLE TIME.

Exactly. It drives me crazy when people complain about this. They were dead at the end! Everything else happened to them while they were alive.

[aghst]

They had long seasons for broadcast network TV and syndicated shows because they needed a certain amount of content to sell ad time for and also back in the day, there were far fewer production capacity.  So 10 network shows turning out 22-26 episodes, in production probably 9 months at a time, was the norm and it employed a lot of people and that was the capacity of the industry.

Now you have smaller production companies turning out 2 or 3 shows a year, with anything from 6-10 episodes for those shows.  But they've cut way back on the number of staff needed.  For instance, during the writers strike, it was revealed that the streaming companies who buy shows were eliminating writers room, meaning smaller writing staffs and those writers not being employed throughout the shoot of the show, so there weren't things like constant rewrites like there used to be.

A big hit like Lost was out of the gate, there were all kinds of incentives to churn out tons of episodes because the network assumed that the audience would go along for the ride and they turned out to be right, though a lot of the viewers who stuck with that show were alienated in the end.

[ofmd]

I really, really hope they won't drag this out artificially, and that they have a plan. I'll never understand how you can put out a mystery (box) show and not know where you are going, and how you will do it.

And now I'm wracking my brain on whether I ever watched such a show that actually worked out for me. Best case scenario, the resolution was lame (compared to the huge buildup before).

Edited Yest. at 10:03 AM by ofmd

[ombre]

2 hours ago, ofmd said:

I really, really hope they won't drag this out artificially, and that they have a plan. I'll never understand how you can put out a mystery (box) show and not know where you are going, and how you will do it.

And now I'm wracking my brain on whether I ever watched such a show that actually worked out for me. Best case scenario, the resolution was lame (compared to the huge buildup before).

I think that sense of being used to disappointment is a big part of why I found the last episode of Dark to be so miraculously satisfying. 

[AstridM]

15 hours ago, aghst said:

They better not go the Lost route.  That would be burning a lot of good will.

Lost show runners infamously got together with Disney and agreed on a multiple season series map.

They were motivated by money, not telling the best story.  They had to keep the show on the air a certain number of seasons or episodes.

They produced 121 episodes over 6 seasons, to sell ad time, to get enough for syndication or DVD sales or whatever.

So it was full of filler episodes and they threw out events and back stories, just to keep it going.

They really could have resolved the mystery in 1/3 the number of episodes but let financial incentives guide them above all else.

Even then, it was an unsatisfactory ending and of course they didn't tie up all the loose ends -- people were still left asking WTF is the smoke monster.

Pretty cynical way to string loyal viewers along.

 

That’s why European TV series are always superior, imo. 

14 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I miss when shows didn’t have to be 8-12 episode seasons of all plot. Bring back filler episodes!

That being said, not every show needs to have long seasons or tons of seasons and this is certainly the type that doesn’t. 

I just think people should prepare themselves for not every single thing being explained in a concrete manner. I think that’s just the nature of this kind of show. Some of it is gonna just be ‘for the vibes’ lol or just like up for viewer interpretation.

“Vibes” are not a thing, make it fucking stop. 

[lovett1979]

18 hours ago, aghst said:

I don't mean from a science or pseudoscience POV.  After all this severance tech is just made up.

I mean more like from storytelling POV, the show only being in the second season, it might be a better story for him to relapse into severed halves.  

Also they may want to keep the series going several seasons so if Mark the main character has to struggle with not knowing everything that he's experienced, that might keep the plot going longer.

But that's the beautiful thing about this show! We would expect them to take years (and subscription$) to draw it out or even once given the chance to reintegrate, Mark hems and haws for a season. But no! 2nd season, 3rd episode, BOOM he does it. This is such exciting television! Completely subverting our expectations of how TV shows work and plotting and pacing. And given the everything that we've seen so far, I trust the creative team to be giving us something amazing, and not just reintegrating him now because they had no other ideas.

[AstridM]

1 hour ago, lovett1979 said:

But that's the beautiful thing about this show! We would expect them to take years (and subscription$) to draw it out or even once given the chance to reintegrate, Mark hems and haws for a season. But no! 2nd season, 3rd episode, BOOM he does it. This is such exciting television! Completely subverting our expectations of how TV shows work and plotting and pacing. And given the everything that we've seen so far, I trust the creative team to be giving us something amazing, and not just reintegrating him now because they had no other ideas.

Right? “Only the second season?” That says a lot right there. Why should the show have more than 2 or 3 seasons anyway?

[aghst]

9 hours ago, ofmd said:

I really, really hope they won't drag this out artificially, and that they have a plan. I'll never understand how you can put out a mystery (box) show and not know where you are going, and how you will do it.

And now I'm wracking my brain on whether I ever watched such a show that actually worked out for me. Best case scenario, the resolution was lame (compared to the huge buildup before).

 

1 hour ago, AstridM said:

Right? “Only the second season?” That says a lot right there. Why should the show have more than 2 or 3 seasons anyway?

Maybe they won’t, since Stiller is rich already but Erickson is a first time show creator/runner.

They’re bringing Ted Lasso back and Sudekis had gotten rich from that show.  But Apple will throw buckets of money to keep a hit show on.

[tennisgurl]

We are really flying by, I thought that we were going to start from scratch with the innies working on the inside again, but now things are really getting going! This is certainly getting things going now that both Marks are together, I cant wait to see what happens next. So will his integration go better than the last one we saw? With all of the almost communication between the Mark's maybe it will go smoother, or maybe it wont. 

Of course Lumen wants to monetize and use the philosophy manifesto to make it more "innie specific" which I am sure will mean more preaching the good words of Lumen and doing what your told. 

I am still on my theory that the little girl is some kind of homegrown daughter of Mark and Gemma, it would explain why Mark and Gemma are so important to Lumen and this mysterious program they need mark for. 

I love the goat office, I love how every office seems to be weirder than the last one.   

[Kirbyrun]

5 hours ago, AstridM said:

“Vibes” are not a thing, make it fucking stop. 

Are you quibbling with the slang term or the idea itself?

Because I understand being sick of the slang, but the IDEA that art works on multiple levels, including the cerebral ("Does it make sense?") and the emotional ("How does it make me feel/what are the vibes?") is perfectly solid.

[peachmangosteen]

Where did this idea that shows should be about plot above all else come from? I also personally don't understand being 'sick of slang.' It's giving 'get off my lawn' vibes.

So much of this show is so obviously about ambience.

Edited 18 hours ago by peachmangosteen

[Ilovepie]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I love the goat office, I love how every office seems to be weirder than the last one. 

Me too! That desk with a computer in the middle of the "field" was hilarious! Like, where does that thing plug in???? And who are those weirdos? Were they asking about Mark & Helly's "pouches" because of lies Lumon has told them about MDR people?

I really wish my office had a giant field with goats running free. I would love to go hang out there when I get stressed......