Chit-Chat: The Feels

[Lantern7]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Well. At least Terry Moran didn't. 
But, yeah. ABC? Really? 

Always Be Castrated.

Up yours, Disney. You guys are a multi-billion dollar monolith. You're telling me you guys want to appease Trump?

Edited June 11 by Lantern7

[CheshireCat]

21 hours ago, PRgal said:

School shooting in Austria

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/10/world/europe/austria-school-shooting.html?unlocked_article_code=1.N08.LVgy.N7BDOmF8rQ9y&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
 

this is really unusual in Europe. 

It is because guns are much harder to come by than in the US and, I believe there are restrictions around keeping them in your home even when you own them legally in Germany. 

At the moment, there are ten fatalities (excluding the shooter). Nine victims died at the scene, one woman died at the hospital in the evening. Eleven are reported as injured. The shooter committed suicide. 

There's no obvious motive but the shooter had written a suicide note saying goodbye to his parents. It looks like bullying may have played a role, though. 

Source is German: https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/europa/oesterreich-graz-schuesse-an-schule-102.html

 

[JustHereForFood]

There's fewer shootings, but they are sadly becoming more common, as young people are radicalising on social media. There's also been (yet another) knife murder at school in France.

[Kemper]

I think "hate" is a strong word; and it shows the kind of helplessness, fear and anger that so many feel right now. Helplessness and the inability to be able to do anything about it. 

These feelings come out when people feel others have taken control of their lives, their country. And it can result in feeling hatred for those who are doing the controlling. I can only hope those who are making decisions for the direction our country seems to be heading can (even though I am not religious) do what Jesus would do. About the hate coming from whoever it comes from. Starting at the top. My heart is breaking.

**I am editing this because I didn't want to appear to be lecturing on hate. I have no right to tell people how they should feel.  Yet here we are. ***

Edited June 11 by Kemper

[Yeah No]

I don't mind if people think I'm telling them how to feel, although I hope my posts don't do that. I think it's important enough to express my opinion on hate regardless of how they take it. I know a lot of people here aren't religious and some even bash religion, especially Christianity, but I take my beliefs seriously to hate the sin but not the sinner. To me this is wisdom, not just pie in the sky idealism. It also aligns with my views on psychological health. So it doesn't even have to involve religion. I take my stance for peace, love and understanding seriously and strive to be consistent with what it implies.

ETA:
Note that the above does not mean acceptance of wrongdoing and excusing and overlooking it. Justice must be stood for and done. It also doesn't mean not getting angry at people either. But I feel on every level, both religious and secular, that hate is a black hole of self and other destruction and accomplishes nothing but making everyone's lives worse.

Edited June 11 by Yeah No

[Bookish Jen]

9 hours ago, LexieLily said:

Why does everyone bow down to him?!

That's what I'd like to know. I've never seen media ever suck up and sanewash a President like they do with Trump.

And Terry Moran is 65? I thought he was in his early fifties. Mr. Moran needs to share us his skincare routine.

[BetyBee]

I personally resent being lectured on how to feel about the people who are either actively destroying my democracy or standing by allowing it to be destroyed. These are the very people whose hatred of "libtards" taught me to hate back. I consider the MSM to be complicit with the "both sides" garbage they have shoved down our throats for years. Now they stand behind their corporate overlords and focus on all the wrong things, things which are often deliberate lies. It's exhausting! I've loved peace my whole life, but I've never seen anything like the immoral regime we are currently living under. I will feel how I feel, thank you very much!

[tres bien]

Re ABC/Disney they paid out a hefty sum for a George Stephanopolis faux pas but maybe they’re weeding journalists out because they feel the need to align themselves with a despot

Hate loath dispise whatever I feel all that for MAGA

With what Trump manufactured in Los Angeles will be spreading to all of blue America 

In red Nebraska Omaha a blue city just elected and inaugurated its first African American mayor (D). Yesterday ICE raided a meat packing plant

Tonight in his quest to makeover our country in his twisted vision with him as supreme leader he’s celebrating his takeover of the Kennedy Center 

Because the damage to our very fiber is never ending 

So yes I loathe hate and dispise Trump guilt free 

Edited June 11 by tres bien

[Dimity]

7 minutes ago, BetyBee said:

I personally resent being lectured on how to feel about the people who are either actively destroying my democracy or standing by allowing it to be destroyed. These are the very people whose hatred of "libtards" taught me to hate back. I consider the MSM to be complicit with the "both sides" garbage they have shoved down our throats for years. Now they stand behind their corporate overlords and focus on all the wrong things, things which are often deliberate lies. It's exhausting! I've loved peace my whole life, but I've never seen anything like the immoral regime we are currently living under. I will feel how I feel, thank you very much!

Thank you.  I have never in my life hated the way I hate right now.  I could pretend that this is not how I feel but I'd be lying to myself.  I feel sick,  and horrified and downright scared and I lay that all at the feet of Trump and his supporters.

And I am sorry but I have lost patience with the notion that Trump's supporters are misguided or "at heart" good people.  I simply do not care.  They are complicit. 

[Yeah No]

9 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

And if they aren't kind to us?  Turning the cheek only gets you so far.

It's much harder to justify hating people that don't hate you back, although they can hate you just for what you stand for. You can't control that. But it's not just about what it gets people to do, it's about how you align with your own code of ethics. And it doesn't hurt to model the behavior you want them to have toward you and the world. A lot on the right feel that "the libs." are hypocrites because they say they stand for tolerance and peace but they don't live it because they hate them. I get it that those that commit what libs. see as a moral outrage have a reason not to feel tolerant of them, but tolerance and hate are also not the same thing either. You can be intolerant of someone's behavior and not hate them.

12 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

Right or wrong the Proud boys and people like them are the face of the Republican party right now.  And if Trump voters who don't share their hate filled ideology sit by and say nothing while they run roughshod over our democracy it's not hard to think they must approve of it.  Liz Cheney who I disagree with on most things had the courage to speak out and it cost her her political career.  We need more of those Republicans.

I don't know that a lot of Republicans see the Proud Boys as the face of their party nor do they approve of them. They would tell you that you're wrong about that just as moderate Democrats would tell Republicans that very far left Progressives that are closer to Communism are not the face of the Democratic party and they don't approve of them either. But that's what they think about Democrats. They are upset that Democrats don't see or care how "un-American" that group is and how they have "taken over" the party. And they think that's evil. We may not see it as evil as tolerating and overlooking Proud Boys but the Right seems to think far left Liberals are from the devil and hate and vilify people on the Right just for being who they are. I'm not a far left Progressive at all but I don't think they're evil in the sense that the Proud Boys are. I don't agree with Progressives on a few things, but there is no 1-1 correspondence there at all.

[bluegirl147]

10 minutes ago, tres bien said:

So yes I loathe hate and dispise Trump guilt free 

Same. He has not one redeeming quality.

2 minutes ago, Dimity said:

And I am sorry but I have lost patience with the notion that Trump's supporters are misguided or "at heart" good people.  I simply do not care.  They are complicit. 

Maybe in 2016 but after the attempted insurrection and now with his thug tactics to make him a dictator anyone who supports him is enjoying this hellscape. 

1 minute ago, Yeah No said:

I don't know that a lot of Republicans see the Proud Boys as the face of their party nor do they approve of them. They would tell you that you're wrong about that just as moderate Democrats would tell Republicans that very far left Progressives that are closer to Communism are not the face of the Democratic party and they don't approve of them either. But that's what they think about Democrats. They are upset that Democrats don't see or care how "un-American" that group is and how they have "taken over" the party. And they think that's evil. We may not see it as evil as tolerating and overlooking Proud Boys but the Right seems to think far left Liberals are from the devil and hate and vilify people on the Right just for being who they are. I'm not a far left Progressive at all but I don't think they're evil in the sense that the Proud Boys are. I don't agree with Progressives on a few things, but there is no 1-1 correspondence there at all.

The far left doesn't have the power in the Democratic party that the far right has in the Republican party. And there has not been a Democratic president in my lifetime that has appeased the far left the way Republican presidents have appeased the far right.  Bush gave them a seat at the table and Trump signed over the entire country to them.

[Dimity]

45 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

Liz Cheney who I disagree with on most things had the courage to speak out and it cost her her political career.  We need more of those Republicans.

She is one of far too many who have lost their jobs and have had the course of their lives irrevocably changed because of Trump  and his acolytes.   

That so many of Trump's supporters are gleeful and rejoicing every time someone gets fired and are posting and sharing horrible things calling for perfectly innocent people to be jailed (lock her up - remember that one?) or worse, well that's just disgusting - and it's far too many out there to be a blip in the world of Republicans.  I hope they are a vocal minority but I am  not confident of that.

We need more Republicans to find their courage, not more people on the other side who are appeasers and quislings and who keep trying to find common ground.  God no.

Edited June 11 by Dimity

[Yeah No]

4 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

The far left doesn't have the power in the Democratic party that the far right has in the Republican party. And there has not been a Democratic president in my lifetime that has appeased the far left the way Republican presidents have appeased the far right.  Bush gave them a seat at the table and Trump signed over the entire country to them.

I agree with this 100%. Their media has brainwashed them to think that the very far left fringe has far more power in the Democratic party than it does. And it makes them think that relatively moderate Democrats are left of Lenin too. It also tells them not to trust them on their promises. They think there's a secret group of Communists (or close) operating them like marionettes behind the scenes. But they don't realize that it's the other way around - that a fascist group of very hard Right wackos have taken control of the Republican party.

I don't know how their media and online voices have managed to pull them so far to the right that they are OK with fascism and don't even see (or care) how their party has been taken over by it, but that's what's happened. They should be outraged and want to go back to the relatively saner (by comparison) Republican platform pre-Trump and pre-MAGA. But they're not. And that's very concerning and in my opinion is far more un-American than anything on the Democratic side. I think their mouthpieces have made them believe that it's more American to be a fascist than it is to be a liberal. How they managed to do that is by stoking fear among their base. 

Whoever orchestrated this is an evil Genius. I don't think Trump did this all by himself. He had a lot of help. I remember Tucker Carlson spewing that fiction years ago and even average middle of the road Republicans bought it. So in their minds they are willing to overlook and "sanewash" fascism out of fear of Communism. That's how they've reduced it to a nutshell conflict that doesn't even exist on the Left but now actually exists on the Right whether they will acknowledge it or not.

12 minutes ago, Dimity said:

We need more Republicans to find their courage, not more people on the other side who are appeasers and quislings and who keep trying to find common ground.  God no.

Did you see this article? We need more people like him in the Republican party.

Shareable gift link to the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/08/us/politics/breaking-with-trump-bacon-says-he-wont-follow-his-party-off-the-cliff.html?unlocked_article_code=1.OE8.ttX3.DU9tjJIJZ0G6&smid=url-share

 

[bluegirl147]

7 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Whoever orchestrated this is an evil Genius. I

Mitch McConnell had a lot to do with it.  He ensured the far right turn of SCOTUS not to mention all the judges he got confirmed on lower courts.

Roger Ailes at Fox News fed the propaganda to millions of viewers.

And now we have the far right podcasters telling young white men they need to fight for their right to be the ones in charge of everything.

[PRgal]

From the Toronto Star today on non-White voters siding Conservative versus Liberal:

In interviews with 50 second-generation Canadians around the GTA — most of whom were either South Asian or Chinese — Elcioglu said she heard that people thought voting Conservative meant becoming more “Canadian.”

“It’s a way to say, ‘I made it. I belong. I’m not voting like my Liberal party immigrant parents,’” Elcioglu said of the responses she heard in the interviews.

 

Another quote:

“Progressive parties shouldn’t assume that they have the support of racialized voters,” she said. “They need to do more listening and speak to the real issues.

“They need to go out into the suburbs.”

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/visible-minorities-in-the-gta-increasingly-supporting-conservatives-u-of-t-study/article_a586ac9a-fc31-4395-b699-9fe382c58caa.html?gift=1&gift_token=f2aa59cd-9bde-45a3-bf8f-bab3713324b4

 

The second one is key:  In my opinion, many (White) progressives still believe that non-Whites are primarily immigrant and urban.  I don't know where this comes from other than them not really taking enough notice.  People have moved on and have done so for the past few decades.  And then there's segregation.  The non-Anglo population in many Canadian suburbs are often homogenous, creating so-called "ethnic enclaves."  Woodbridge, Ontario, for example, is heavily Italian while Markham is Chinese.

[Yeah No]

7 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

And now we have the far right podcasters telling young white men they need to fight for their right to be the ones in charge of everything.

Yes, including their "uppity" women!

[EtheltoTillie]

Agree that the Kimmel monologue was really good last night.

I was going to post earlier.  Here's a link. 

Best line:  arsonist with a hose.

Edited June 11 by EtheltoTillie

[Yeah No]

4 minutes ago, Bliss said:

Dimity - I understand your hate, because I, too, have said the words, "I think for the first time in my life I hate someone - tRump." Everything he does, says, and even his body language is disgusting.

I've studied many spiritual disciplines for several years, and I do my best to practice forgiveness... this morning, I read a post which read something like, 'I forgive you for being an asshole. That doesn't mean you aren't still an asshole."

LOL, I love that second paragraph! That's me all over!

Although I will admit this: I too feel hatred for Trump himself even though I know it's not consistent with my philosophy. I'm not enough of a saint to achieve not hating him. I just don't hate the average person that has bought into his BS and actually thinks it will be good for them and the country. To me that would be like blaming the victims. I see a lot of them as victims of brainwashing. My response to them would be more like, "Forgive them, for they know not what they do". (Yes, I know it's much like the Jesus quote).

[EtheltoTillie]

Also, Lawrence O'Donnell is really becoming one of my favorites.  Last night he had a good segment on Trump wanting to honor Confederate general Robert E. Lee.  He is calling Trump out as a traitor every day, essentially. 

[fastiller]

1 hour ago, Bliss said:

Just a random thought...

With all the name changes proposed - Gulf of Mexico, Kennedy Center, ships, etc., etc., etc... 

When do you think you'll change from USA to DSA? i.e., Divided, rather than United.

I think this is wholly appropriate (it's avery old image, from around Dubya era):  (I wonder where Hawai'i is in the mix.)

[BetyBee]

Well, he does like to put his own name on things and he's completely unfamiliar with Jesus, except for pretending to be a Christian, so I think he'd prefer Trumplandia to Jesusland.

[Absolom]

More information about the problems with Trump's rhetoric in relation to Los Angeles.  Rounding up people at Home Depot is absolutely taking an approach simply to fill a deportation quota.  Criminals was always a smoke screen. Now he'll be trying to justify what to most people is unjustifiable.  Republicans these days are only screaming states' rights when it comes to putting Project  2025 in place.

https://newrepublic.com/article/196674/trump-gavin-newsom-fury-backfires-reveals-weakness

https://prospect.org/justice/cries-defiance-songs-joy-los-angeles-ice-protests-immigration-raids/

Edited June 11 by Absolom

[fastiller]

Here's one with flags for these two new countries & a slightly different border:

Edited June 11 by fastiller

[peacheslatour]

I go by this.

[Yeah No]

2 hours ago, Bookish Jen said:

And Terry Moran is 65? I thought he was in his early fifties. Mr. Moran needs to share us his skincare routine.

Wow what a silver fox!!! 😍

1 hour ago, annzeepark914 said:

@Yeah No You're too kind. Trump's supporters do know what they do (& they're loving it all).

I think some of this has to do with the area. Here in New England a lot of Trump supporters would never support him if they weren't brainwashed by the media. It boggles my mind but these are kind people and not racists either. This isn't the South or the Midwest where I'm sure that more people cheer him on. I think a lot of them aren't seeing reality. Either they're in denial or hiding their heads in the sand or being totally brainwashed. It goes back to Plato with me. If a man really saw the Good would he not do it? They're not seeing it.

56 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

I agree. Among his core base which I think is something like 30% he has not lost one shred of support. They will never abandon him.  They either twist themselves into pretzels to justify what he is doing or they say fuck yeah to what he is doing.

Have you seen his approval ratings lately? They continue to plunge. There have to be a few Republicans among them, or at least people that voted for him whatever their affiliation (or lack thereof). And their numbers are increasing little by little. Also, what people will admit to publicly is not always what they would do at the ballot box. They might be afraid to admit they have reservations about Trump so they continue to wave the flag for him publicly when meanwhile they are just riding his presidency out. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/donald-trump-s-approval-rating-plunges/ar-AA1Grtp

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, Bliss said:

Jimmy Kimmel's show was excellent last night in so many ways - his diss of tRump's sending the National Guard to LA, etc.

Watching this now:
“Putting out fires you started doesn't make you a firefighter;
 it makes you an arsonist with a hose.”

Edited June 11 by shapeshifter

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Agree that the Kimmel monologue was really good last night.

I was going to post earlier.  Here's a link. 

Best line:  arsonist with a hose.

Thank you for posting this, this was fantastic!

[Ohiopirate02]

I personally hate those maps because they trivialize everything that has happened to create "red" states. Things like gerrymandering and voter suppression and every other dirty trick Republicans use to maintain control. Not to mention people are complex and can vote for more than one political party. They sure do in the state where I reside that gets called a red state for voting for Trump when we have had a Democrat as governor since 2017. On a state level, my state senator is a Democrat while my state representative is a Republican. Due to Republican lawmakers shenanigans, I have been represented by both a Democrat and a Republican in Congress. This shit is complicated.

[bluegirl147]

1 minute ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I personally hate those maps because they trivialize everything that has happened to create "red" states. Things like gerrymandering and voter suppression and every other dirty trick Republicans use to maintain control. Not to mention people are complex and can vote for more than one political party. They sure do in the state where I reside that gets called a red state for voting for Trump when we have had a Democrat as governor since 2017. On a state level, my state senator is a Democrat while my state representative is a Republican. Due to Republican lawmakers shenanigans, I have been represented by both a Democrat and a Republican in Congress. This shit is complicated.

I agree. Even in states that vote heavily for Republicans there are still Democrats.  And vice versa. It does bother me that because of the state I live way too many people write off everyone that lives here as uneducated hicks. I'm well aware that yes there are plenty of those but please don't assume we are all that way.

[peacheslatour]

Trump had this to say about the happenings in L.A. CNN was having trouble sorting out exactly who the "invaders" are.

https://www.mediaite.com/media/tv/cnn-reporter-dumbfounded-by-trump-remark-were-trying-to-sort-through-what-that-sentence-actually-even-meant/?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

“They’re incompetent and they paid troublemakers, agitators, and insurrectionists,” Trump said. “They’re engaged in this willful attempt to nullify federal law and aid the occupation of the city by criminal invaders.”

[fastiller]

Hadn't seen this posted; if it's a repeat, apologies.  Seems in the wee hours of this morning, Musk bent the knee.  Amazing what a drop in share prices can make someone do.

 

[Absolom]

I wish I could be shocked, but such is Trump's magical bully power.

[laurakaye]

24 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Trump had this to say about the happenings in L.A. CNN was having trouble sorting out exactly who the "invaders" are.

“They’re incompetent and they paid troublemakers, agitators, and insurrectionists,” Trump said. “They’re engaged in this willful attempt to nullify federal law and aid the occupation of the city by criminal invaders.”

Sorry, which insurrection is he talking about?  There's more than one to choose from...the one he created himself, or - the other one he created himself?

As for the above sentence, the sad thing is if anyone asks him to clarify what he means, he's just going to respond with another non-sequitur word salad, so I guess the solution is to let him ramble and try to parse it out at a later date, by which time he's made another 136 statements that don't follow logic, ad nauseam, lather rinse repeat.  The very act of trying to report on what he's doing must be such an exercise in futility, it strains the imagination.

All I know is that I have not been this consistently exhausted in my entire life and I am losing my ability to be shocked, which is also very concerning.

Edited June 11 by laurakaye

[peacheslatour]

He is truly losing his mind. He's mixing up wars now.

https://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/2025/06/trump-mixes-up-world-wars-days-civil-rights-in-latest-remarks/?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

“Recently, other countries celebrated the victory of World War I, France was celebrating, really,” Trump told troops at Fort Bragg on Tuesday afternoon. “They were all celebrating. The only one that doesn’t celebrate is the USA and we’re the ones that won the war. Without us, you’d all be speaking German right now. Maybe a little Japanese thrown in. But we won the war.”

[tessaray]

7 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

He is truly losing his mind. He's mixing up wars now.

You're assuming he paid enough attention in school to ever know the difference. 😏

[bluegirl147]

42 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

“They’re incompetent and they paid troublemakers, agitators, and insurrectionists,” Trump said. “They’re engaged in this willful attempt to nullify federal law and aid the occupation of the city by criminal invaders.”

There are people who believe Putin was behind that Russian theater terrorist attack in 2002. They said it was Islamic terrorists from Chechnya but knowing what we know now about how ruthless Putin is he could have orchestrated it for his own benefit. Trump would 100% do something like that.  If LA doesn't achieve what he wants he will do something else.  It's not like US Presidents are above using crises to promote their own agenda.  

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

Trump had this to say about the happenings in L.A. CNN was having trouble sorting out exactly who the "invaders" are.

https://www.mediaite.com/media/tv/cnn-reporter-dumbfounded-by-trump-remark-were-trying-to-sort-through-what-that-sentence-actually-even-meant/?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

“They’re incompetent and they paid troublemakers, agitators, and insurrectionists,” Trump said. “They’re engaged in this willful attempt to nullify federal law and aid the occupation of the city by criminal invaders.”

Yeah, I saw that. BTW, this is right out of the Tucker Carlson playbook from about 8-9 years ago. Half the garbage Trump is spewing these days comes from him. I remember when Carlson was harping on Antifa and calling them paid agitators, and insinuating that George Soros was funding them. He claimed that they were an organized group affiliated with the Democratic and the very far left. Meanwhile no evidence to that effect exists and most Democrats I know don't even know who they are.

[peacheslatour]

2 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Yeah, I saw that. BTW, this is right out of the Tucker Carlson playbook from about 8-9 years ago. Half the garbage Trump is spewing these days comes from him. I remember when Carlson was harping on Antifa and calling them paid agitators, and insinuating that George Soros was funding them. He claimed that they were an organized group affiliated with the Democratic and the very far left. Meanwhile no evidence to that effect exists and most Democrats I know don't even know who they are.

Oh yeah, I remember that. I never did get my check from George.

[Yeah No]

23 minutes ago, Suzn said:

Thank you!  Me, too!  I think it is entirely normal and justifiable to hate those who wish you harm...and make no mistake about about their wish for your suffering and dying.

I don't believe that any of the right leaning posters on this board nor my neighbors wish anyone here, or anyone in general harm. I seriously doubt that based on what I know about them.

Also, the fact that this is not a thread for Democrats only, saying such things might offend them and also contradict board rules. At least certain boards. Although I do remember the mod. here saying that this should be a place where all people feel comfortable to voice their opinions. And saying that you hate people that might be reading this thread is not exactly going to help them feel that way. Just my opinion!

ETA: Also, what if one of those Trump supporters came here and said they hated everyone on this thread that hates them? How would anyone feel about that? I'm sure that they'd be reported for it. Spewing hate leads nowhere fast and doesn't help anyone's cause. In fact it only breeds more hate directed back at whoever expresses it. And it only gives them more reason to hate you back when they may not have even had one before. At this rate this kind of tit for tat stuff can only end in the destruction of our country. Is hating someone worth that? Not to  me. I love my country.

Edited June 11 by Yeah No

[bluegirl147]

11 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Meanwhile no evidence to that effect exists and most Democrats I know don't even know who they are.

It's because they don't exist.  

7 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I don't believe that any of the right leaning posters on this board nor my neighbors wish anyone here, or anyone in general harm. I seriously doubt that based on what I know about them.

They might not but they support a man who does wish harm to people.  

[Yeah No]

23 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

They might not but they support a man who does wish harm to people.  

What you and I interpret as "harm" they may interpret as "justice". I don't agree with them, but I can't hate them for being wrong about that. I'd rather put my energy into helping them see where they're wrong. Sending hate at them only shuts them down and intensifies the conflict because it confirms for them the garbage that their media tells them about Democrats - that we are all hypocrites that hate lower class white people. It serves no positive purpose. And if you're not a part of the solution, you're part of the.....Well, you know how to finish that phrase.

Re: Antifa, I have always wondered if the far Right invented Antifa just so they could report about it as part of their bogus propaganda.

[peacheslatour]

7 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

What you and I interpret as "harm" they may interpret as "justice". I don't agree with them, but I can't hate them for being wrong about that. I'd rather put my energy into helping them see where they're wrong. Sending hate at them only shuts them down and intensifies the conflict because it confirms for them the garbage that their media tells them about Democrats - that we are all hypocrites that hate lower class white people. It serves no positive purpose. And if you're not a part of the solution, you're part of the.....Well, you know how to finish that phrase.

Re: Antifa, I have always wondered if the far Right invented Antifa just so they could report about it as part of their bogus propaganda.

Antifa goes back to the Occupy Wall Street protests, at least here in Seattle. Then during WTO, we had the Portland anarchists. People used to make jokes about the big, bad anarchists from Oregon who weren't even allowed to pump their own gas.

[Dimity]

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

I don't believe that any of the right leaning posters on this board nor my neighbors wish anyone here, or anyone in general harm. I seriously doubt that based on what I know about them.

Looking the other way is another form of collusion.  And pretending that all the people being rounded up by masked men and sent "away" are criminals is, at best, being deliberately ignorant.  Anyone who can watch children being arrested and having their hands tied behind their backs with zip ties and can shrug that off is someone I do not want to know.

[bluegirl147]

8 minutes ago, Dimity said:

Looking the other way is another form of collusion.  And pretending that all the people being rounded up by masked men and sent "away" are criminals is, at best, being deliberately ignorant.  Anyone who can watch children being arrested and having their hands tied behind their backs with zip ties and can shrug that off is someone I do not want to know.

The Holocaust was allowed to happen for so long because people knew and looked the other way.

[jessiebell]

Trump is always describing the undocumented in this country as millions of murderers and rapists but that's not what ICE and company are finding.  I think most Americans would agree that murderers and rapists should be jailed (and deported after serving their sentence). 

But do we really want to spend $150 BILLION (or more) on deporting people who have been here for years and are working (and usually working low paying, often back breaking, jobs)? Or changing the rules and cancelling visas and detaining those people?  

IF the answer is yes why does it have to be Stephen Miller's 3,000 a day? Just because Trump wants to deport more people than Obama and Biden did?  We don't have the detention space for such numbers.  So we'll spend millions (probably billions) building new detention centers  (as a side note Border Czar Tom Homan has made money as a consultant for GEO one of the 2 private companies operating detention centers and AG Pam Bondi is a former lobbyist for the company).  Today's Wash Post has a story that they are again considering holding people a Gitmo - where they previously put up tents to accomate the expected numbers of detainees but then had to remove the tents after never using them so another waste of money.  

MAGAs and Trump supporters don't realize how many people were deported under Obama and Biden because those administrations didn't do photo ops at every opportunity.

I don't really see the purpose and certainly not the expense of deporting everyone that has been here for years working and paying taxes.  What is really needed is an overhaul of our Immigration laws but Republicans and certainly this administration aren't interested in doing that.  

I would not be surprised if the "agitators" in LA are paid by this administration.

 

 

 

[anony.miss]

 

26 minutes ago, jessiebell said:

I think most Americans would agree that murderers and rapists should be jailed

You'd think that would be a bright line, but unfortunately,  millions of Americans don't agree with putting rapists in jail -  they voted to put a man found liable for sexual assault not in  prison, but the Oval Office.

Edited June 11 by anony.miss

[bluegirl147]

2 minutes ago, anony.miss said:

 

Unfortunately,  millions of Americans don't agree with putting rapists in jail -  they voted to put a man found liable for sexual assault not in a cell, but the Oval Office.

 

They aren't OK with putting certain white rapists in jail. Remember Brock Turner?  The judge felt so bad for him and didn't want to ruin his life over "one mistake".

[Affogato]

I think hating a narcissist is a natural way people react to the narcissist, a phase to go through, but it gives 47 too much credit. I think I hate the people around him, his enablers, more. The people who could tell him he is wrong, the people who support his fragile ego, the people who let him think that he is the king of the world. Yeah, I think a lot of the maga people fall into this category, since they should be able to say ‘this is wrong’, so I don’t think it is just his cabinet and so on that do this. Yes, many are doing it because they think they can advance themselves (and many have been proven wrong). 

47 is going to act like he acts, he has no insight or choice, really. The enablers, they have a choice. All of us have a choice. 

[peacheslatour]

Florida law that would replace migrant workers with kids falls apart.

https://www.newsweek.com/florida-plan-replace-migrant-workers-children-falls-apart-2068584

A bill that would have loosened child labor laws in Florida has died in the state Senate.

The proposal came as Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, a Republican, touted using teenagers as a replacement for the labor of migrants who are in the country illegally.

Newsweek has contacted DeSantis' office for comment via email.

Governor Ron DeSantis speaking during a news conference at the ICE-Enforcement and Removal Operation office in Miramar, Florida, on May 1. Joe Raedle/Getty Images

Why It Matters

President Donald Trump has pledged to deport millions of people in the United States with no legal status, while critics say deportations on such a scale could lead to labor shortages.

The bill would have permitted 16- and 17-year-olds to work overnight on school days and work longer than an eight-hour day before a school day. Some 14- and 15-year-olds would also have been allowed to work those hours.

Proponents said the bill aligned with federal child labor law and would help combat labor shortages, but critics warned that it posed serious risks of exploitation.

[Affogato]

38 minutes ago, jessiebell said:

Trump is always describing the undocumented in this country as millions of murderers and rapists but that's not what ICE and company are finding.  I think most Americans would agree that murderers and rapists should be jailed (and deported after serving their sentence). 

But do we really want to spend $150 BILLION (or more) on deporting people who have been here for years and are working (and usually working low paying, often back breaking, jobs)? Or changing the rules and cancelling visas and detaining those people?  

IF the answer is yes why does it have to be Stephen Miller's 3,000 a day? Just because Trump wants to deport more people than Obama and Biden did?  We don't have the detention space for such numbers.  So we'll spend millions (probably billions) building new detention centers  (as a side note Border Czar Tom Homan has made money as a consultant for GEO one of the 2 private companies operating detention centers and AG Pam Bondi is a former lobbyist for the company).  Today's Wash Post has a story that they are again considering holding people a Gitmo - where they previously put up tents to accomate the expected numbers of detainees but then had to remove the tents after never using them so another waste of money.  

MAGAs and Trump supporters don't realize how many people were deported under Obama and Biden because those administrations didn't do photo ops at every opportunity.

I don't really see the purpose and certainly not the expense of deporting everyone that has been here for years working and paying taxes.  What is really needed is an overhaul of our Immigration laws but Republicans and certainly this administration aren't interested in doing that.  

I would not be surprised if the "agitators" in LA are paid by this administration.

 

 

 

The deportation issues are getting so much more screen time that what is in the big beautiful bill, it is a distraction from what is really going on. 

17 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

They aren't OK with putting certain white rapists in jail. Remember Brock Turner?  The judge felt so bad for him and didn't want to ruin his life over "one mistake".

A lot is the definition of rape. Most people would jail someone who stalks a woman at night and rapes her as she walks home from church. Someone she doesn’t know, right, maybe that black guy they saw walking around the neighborhood. But most rapes are committed by people you know, often family and friends, and people want to make excuses. And no one wants to damage the prospects of a promising young white man, just because he showed poor judgement that one time.