S01.E07: The Wedding

[Bort]

I watched that scene twice because I hear him say ---none so coarse

Not to be too nitpicky but he said "none so close."

Edited September 22, 2014 by kariyaki

[justmehere]

But there was no need for all the secrecy because the dress was not placed at the center of attention.

 

 

At first, to me, it looked mostly like showcasing the dress. On rewatch, I saw much more because of how they did the reveal. Jamie is describing how the cloudy day turned to sunshine when he saw her, and they changed the light accordingly as the cape was removed. Besides showcasing a very pretty dress (I loved the white underskirt with the embroidery, btw), it felt like it was also about how Jamie, specifically, saw her in that moment. He remembered every second of the day, including this. He's obviously seen her dressed up before at Castle Leoch, but this had much higher emotional value. His reaction and how he approached her showed the vision that she was to him. And look how fine she is. (<-- borrowing from Rob Roy there.)  Separately, having been commissioned by a wealthy patron, the dress also was much more elaborate than most, and the people gathered were also in some wonder. Dougal and Murtagh were even impressed. (Of course, Angus was scratching inside his ear, but he's Angus.)

Edited September 22, 2014 by justmehere

[taanja]

HaHa!!! I tried to listen closely but all I could hear was coarse and I was like---um...that's not a compliment! HaHa!!!

[Petunia846]

It was the one that's mine part that I was listening for. Love it.

[lucindabelle]

Yes, Jamie didn't mind! But I did think, whoa, those are pointing the wrong way for a young'uin. Which also means they are natural, which is kind of nice.

"None that were mine" is a nice line.

[Rekilt]

Not that I think there's anything wrong with Cait's boobs but, dinna fash, Jamie didn't seem to mind at all. ;)

I can't find the quote you were replying to so will tag onto yours. When I read the other comment all I could think of was that scene from LA story where Steve Martin is feeling up Sarah Jessica Parker and he says, "your breast feel...different" and she responses, "oh yah, it's because they're real". I think we're so use to seeing artificially enhance boobs in the media that real breast look so foreign. Even most (cough cough ALL) the 20 something Victoria Secret's angels are surgically enhanced.

[Athena]

I can't find the quote you were replying to so will tag onto yours. When I read the other comment all I could think of was that scene from LA story where Steve Martin is feeling up Sarah Jessica Parker and he says, "your breast feel...different" and she responses, "oh yah, it's because they're real". I think we're so use to seeing artificially enhance boobs in the media that real breast look so foreign. Even most (cough cough ALL) the 20 something Victoria Secret's angels are surgically enhanced.

 

What is really interesting is that Cait was a Victoria's Secret model. I really liked how natural the nudity looked in the episode. Cait is not a super young thing either. She is a woman of 34 years and looks fantastic too. 

[CatMack]

Not only do we tend to see clothed boobs jacked up with push up bras, etc, even naked breast tend to be highly manipulated.  Aside from augmented breasts behaving differently, there are all kinds of tricks (tape, etc) used to make breasts more "appealing" for porn and advertisments and even some movies/tv.  Size obviously makes a difference, but in general on natural breasts nipples point down.  It's not about sagging, it's just gravity.  There's nothing bad about it.  Cait's are small enough hers don't actually point down, but yeah, gravity still works.  Boobs are bags of fat, they jiggle and wiggle and don't stay up on their own.  It's not surprising that natural breasts are seen as "saggy" though, what with the way they're presented in media.  You could fill a book with all the distortions about the female body most main stream media promotes (don't even get me started on the concept of virginity which is a complete and total crock and a social construct created to control and commodify women and oh my god hymens don't work that way *ahem*).

Edited September 22, 2014 by CatMack

[Rekilt]

What is really interesting is that Cait was a Victoria's Secret model. I really liked how natural the nudity looked in the episode. Cait is not a super young thing either. She is a woman of 34 years and looks fantastic too.

I'm sorry Athena but I'm going to have to vehemently disagree with you. For those of us around the age of 34, give or take 10 years, I'd like to say thats verra verra young!!! LOL, just kidding. I agree with you :-)

I just looked it up, she was a VS model in 2002, that was 12 years ago when a few of those girls were still allowed to go natural and eat a lettuce leaf a couple times a week. Not so much now.

[mybabyaidan]

I know most of this has already been said, but I still wanted to share some of my thoughts. 

 

I LOVED Sam's delivery when Jamie first enters the bedchamber at the beginning and Claire calls him Bob Hope.  After she says the she always found him funny line, Sam just does this little hesitation thing and is very unsure what to do/where to go/what to do with his hands (He does the tap thing with his fingers here too) and it's just adorable.  And then she suggests the drink and he bursts with relief that he doesn't have to awkwardly stand there anymore.  It's just such a cute little moment.

 

And then the part that just killed me was right after they discuss the actual wedding and Claire touches his arm.  He looks so damn happy and hopeful, like "hey she is initiating the touching here" and then she gets up and walks away and his face KILLS me.  And then of course she tells him to take off his shirt, but that second between his hope being seemingly dashed again, to HELL YES sexy times was just great.

Edited September 22, 2014 by mybabyaidan

[nara]

Separately, having been commissioned by a wealthy patron, the dress also was much more elaborate than most, and the people gathered were also in some wonder.

 

On the subject of the origin of the dress, when the brothel owner mentioned that it was commissioned by a lord for his wife, did anyone else have a moment of fear that the dress was purchased by BJR for his wife?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

One thing I loved was that after Jamie told her the story about the origin of her dress, she wasn't freaked out or offended that it came from a whorehouse. Instead she just laughed at the thought of Ned being sent on this errand.

ITA that it's nice to see a woman on tv who doesn't have huge fake boobs. They are real so they don't stand at attention no matter what position you're in (one of the things I hate most about fake ones, aside from the extremely unrealistic standards of beauty they create, is seeing women lying flat on their backs with boobs that look like half melons standing straight up from their chests). As for Sam, I like a fit guy as much as the next girl, but I really love that he is obviously in shape but he doesn't have a chiseled six pack. Not only would it be unrealistic to believe that his character would take the time to do a million crunches every day, but I am just tired of seeing rock hard abs that are (IMO) overly defined. Toned is one thing. Being able to see every single muscle is another.

Edited September 22, 2014 by ElectricBoogaloo

[annlaw78]

 

Dress was fine but not really as sensational as all the hype. Just me, or are Katrina's breasts a little droopy for a young woman? When she is 40 those things are going to sag big time.

I think they're just normal, non-augmented, and frame-approrpriate.  We're used to seeing stick-thin women with pert, massive cans.  

 

 

I agree she could have just told Jamie she can't help thinking about her first wedding.

I agree, too.  I wish she'd just said that, rather than being distant and recoiling from his touch at times.  He's having the best night of his life, and, yes, perhaps if he were a perfect, completely sensitive man ("The Most Sensitive Man In the World," as Brendan Fraser's (hey!) character from the amazingly campy "Bedazzled" would say), he would have intuited that she's pensive about her prior wedding/wedding night.  But some simple communication about the elephant in the room probably would have helped.  At this point, I don't know if Jamie has any idea if Claire's first husband died two months ago or two years ago.  

 

 

It doesn't "disqualify" them, it just makes them less desirable a candidate. Akin to modern-day politicians getting caught with a hooker. As Collum's brother, Dougal's the stronger candidate.

Plus, if Claire continues as the Florence Nightengale/Clara Barton of Castle Leoch, I think that will eventually overtake the notoriety and negative surrounding her Englishness.  

[Nidratime]

Another great review of The Wedding episode. I looked around to see if it was posted and I don't think it's on here, but I apologize if it's already been posted. I wanted to put it in this thread because of the following excerpt which is so complimentary:

 

I’ve seen a lot of television in my lifetime; good, bad, indifferent. Same with film. Same with novels. And through this incredible medium I’ve found my lifelong passion; through this medium I’ve learned and absorbed so much good and bad art that I am a more educated person because of it.

 

So, when I say that Outlander is having one of the best seasons of any show ever to air, know that I mean it. It’s not perfect; no show is. But the politics, the directing, the lighting, the acting, the writing, the setting; all of these things and a million more make this show the best new show to air this year, and it’s not even close.

 

http://www.tvovermind.com/reviews/outlander-1-06-review-wedding-240733#Zy5KgmFJbXT0Lv3Q.99

 

[Athena]

I'm sorry Athena but I'm going to have to vehemently disagree with you. For those of us around the age of 34, give or take 10 years, I'd like to say thats verra verra young!!! LOL, just kidding. I agree with you :-)

I just looked it up, she was a VS model in 2002, that was 12 years ago when a few of those girls were still allowed to go natural and eat a lettuce leaf a couple times a week. Not so much now.

 

Haha. I knew that someone would post as a reply. I agree she isn't old at all. I actually like that they casted someone in their 30's for Claire. I do think that based on the discussion of her in nudity as compared to many women on cable (who are in their 20's) who appear nude. The whole VS model thing is a bit sad actually knowing Cait was one and relatively untouched. 

[absnow54]

All this talk about Cait's breasts. I found Sam's Ken doll smooth groin to be 100 times more distracting. Was Jamie experimenting some manscaping techniques with his dirk? That's the only part of the nudity that took me out of the scene.

 

I noticed all the Jamie finger ticks, but I also noticed when Claire was nervous about Jamie undressing her, she instinctively touches her bare ring finger to twist her wedding ring.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

And as soon as she realized she was doing it, she slapped her arms down at her sides like a little kid. I really loved how obvious how nervous and awkward they were with each other.

I thought it was hilarious that Jamie was doing that fake casual "let me just put my arm up here" thing and as soon as she said, "Let's drink!" he abandoned his pose and practically ran to get thr glasses because he was so relieved to have something to do.

[WatchrTina]

 

As for Sam, I like a fit guy as much as the next girl, but I really love that he is obviously in shape but he doesn't have a chiseled six pack. Not only would it be unrealistic to believe that his character would take the time to do a million crunches every day

In one of his interviews Sam was asked about how he prepped for that scene and the interviewer noted how the frequently-naked actors on True Blood would abstain from beer the week before a nude scene and do exercises to pump up between takes.  Sam laughed and said that maybe he should have talked to them for advice but in his case he was wearing a prosthetic on his back at that added 2-3 hours to the prep time and that required continual maintenance so working out between takes wasn't really an option.  Good for you Sam!  I love Claire's frizzy hair and invisible make-up and I like that Jamie's body looks fabulous and realistic.

[mybabyaidan]

Jamie uses the same waxer that Claire apparently uses on her underarms. 

 

Maybe Angus has a side job?

[annlaw78]

 

Jamie uses the same waxer that Claire apparently uses on her underarms.

Electrolysis was around back then.  Maybe our girl had the foresight to invest in some hair removal!

 

Not all guys are super-hairy.  

[bluebonnet]

TWO cats in huge episode! The one eating in thcresits was a different color than the one eating later. If I didn't like scots before I certainly would now.

Dress was fine but not really as sensational as all the hype. Just me, or are Katrina's breasts a little droopy for a young woman? When she is 40 those things are going to sag big time.

 

I thought those cats were CGI.  It looked so fake.  It sort of disgusted me the cat was up on the table eating food.  But really, I didn't get the point of including the cats.  Is there some symbolism there? 

 

Also, espite what pornography shows us, breasts actually do come in all shapes in sizes.  Some are round, some tear drop shaped, some shaped like bananas.  Some are large, some small, others lopsided.  For me, her breasts were a bit shocking merely because there was no evidence they had been surgically enhanced nor is it immediately noticeable that they fiddled with her breasts in editing.  Even outside of porn, when you get nudity in a regular show or movie and the breasts aren't shaped like melons, it's still more often than not that the female breast is surgically enhanced in some way, whether a lift or just subtle shaping, or they are enhanced in editing.  As someone who has struggled with breast confidence due to having tits that don't match the Hollywood ideal, it's always such a relief to see boobs on screen  or in print presented exactly as one's DNA and life made them.   To sum up, boo to body shaming.

[nara]

So I've been thinking about Jamie's virginity a lot. Maybe too much, heh, but I am wondering about some of the choices made. I can sort of understand that he is still a virgin maybe because of his back or the price on his head etc. but he is an expert kisser and even says he wasn't a monk. I find it hard to believe during his make out sessions there were no roaming hands. Some tart didn't slip her hand up his kilt or the other way around? No dry humping face to face? Had plenty of those times in my youth.

He seems a little too naive as to positions and orgasms. Considering how rough and crude his buddies are you think he have seen or heard a bit more over the years. He's not a 15 year old stable lad who's never been off the farm. When he comes down for food after the first time, Rupert asked, did ya bleed? Then Angus teases, while you're filling your face with food maybe I'll go upstairs and fill mine, complete with tongue action. He doesn't appear shocked so he has some idea of basic female anatomy.

He even says they gave him advice on the big night. I'm sure they gave him hell but they do seem to care for him very much. Each one went out of their way to make the wedding special. Even Dougal ponied up some money for the church windows. I would pay good money to see mentioned sex talks. If one minute the guys have said women don't like it but then you throw in the typical crude oral sex joke I call shenanigans.

 

I noticed that Angus is the one who made the oral sex joke, but he is not one of the men (Murtagh, Rupert, Ned) who think women do not enjoy sex.  Coincidence?  Maybe not!

 

Jamie's knowledge is a little inconsistent.  However, if a boy is actively trying to remain a virgin until married, he might not seek out opportunities to learn more because they might create too much temptation.  Especially if he's older like Jamie, it probably becomes increasingly harder to ask questions without embarrassing himself.  He might even laugh at jokes without fully understanding them, just to avoid the embarrassment of not knowing things.  He clearly knows the basics, like what goes where, and has instincts about what he himself would enjoy.  However, he may have made assumptions based on what he saw with animals and just not asked questions.  Also, he may think of oral sex and other stuff as things you do when you can't have real sex, as opposed to part of a complete repertoire.  

 

I have to say, I'm really glad that his activities with Laoghaire do not appear to have gone as far as I assumed they had!

[peacefrog]

Regarding the armpit hair...I could have sworn she had some in the first episode. I remember it being quite visible during her sex scene with Frank. Maybe I just saw a shadow but I think I even commented on it in the Sassenach thread! Weird that she would not have it now, unless maybe she had an event in real life and had to wax.

[mybabyaidan]

Electrolysis was around back then.  Maybe our girl had the foresight to invest in some hair removal!

 

Not all guys are super-hairy.  

 

Was it really? 

 

I was being cheeky though, I don't think Sam looks waxed. 

[Bort]

Not all guys are super-hairy.

Yes, definitely. I have brothers and they're like hairless rats. Of course, the torso area is all that I know about. Well okay, their butts too, they have mooned me on occasion. They're obnoxious.

I did wonder about Claire's armpits but I fanwank that she borrowed somebody's straight razor.

[annlaw78]

Was it really?

I think it's been around since the 19th c. Started as a treatment for ingrown eyelashes.

[romantique]

Just listened to Ron Moore's podcast on this episode and it was full of great tidbits. My favorites were the following:

1. The postcoital conversation was lifted almost exactly from the book because this is what they used for auditioning actors for Jamie and Claire. They hadn't yet written the script for "The Wedding " so they typed up sides from this part of the novel. Also, this was the scene they used for the chemistry test between Sam Heughan and Caitriona Balfe.

2. Ron had wanted to use a nail for the wedding ring. Thanks to his wife, they used a key, and this is one of several changes made to Jamie's wedding conditions (like making up the backstory of the dress so that it could be something amazing and never worn and the church location).

3. Also, commissioning Angus and Rupert to have the key made them a part of the wedding prep just like Murtagh sourcing the Fraser tartan and Dougal booking the venue. I am surprised Ron and Terry didn't just admit that they made Jamie into a groomzilla :-).

4. The ring drop shot at the end was not only actually shot like that without CGI, but it all happened in the first take!

I did love hearing how the line about Claire being like the sun was a callback to a moment between him and his wife. Such a romantic!

Edited September 23, 2014 by romantique

[Tif]

Yes, I'm rewatching (Again) and there are a few parts that I still laugh out loud at. Dougal getting pissed at the Priest, "Look you dozy smout!" and Angus and Rupert, "Ye didna ken that!"

Rosencrantz and Guildenstern.

[Rekilt]

Yes, I'm rewatching (Again) and there are a few parts that I still laugh out loud at. Dougal getting pissed at the Priest, "Look you dozy smout!" and Angus and Rupert, "Ye didna ken that!"

Rosencrantz and Guildenstern.

OMG!!! That's who I told my husband Angus and Rupert reminded me of! LIKE MINDS TIf, like minds.

ETA: just saw the funniest picture someone made. It was a movie poster with the title Wedding Crashers and had Angus and Rupert holding beers as the Crashers! And the tag line is "life's a party. Crash it." Someone needs to start an Angus and Rupert thread!

Edited September 23, 2014 by Rekilt

[lucindabelle]

Excuse me I'm not body shaping I m just noticing and in my view actors who get praised for their beauty are putting their looks on display. Yes, breasts come in all shapes and sizes and I already said I was glad they hadn't been enhanced, but the breasts on boardwalk empire also aren't (a requirement for the job) and in my opinion look much better. I was startled that they were that low on a young woman. She's built very angular though so I guess it's just how she's made.

It they are going to show nudity people have a right to remark on what they see. I'm clearly not so diehard a fan as a lot of people on here are. I don't feel reverence towards the actors or characters, or story. I enjoyed this episode because it had more humor than most but not a lot has happened. And how is it nobody noticed she was wearing a ring when she entered the church?

If Jamie's supposed to be "in love," I don't see it. Seems to me he respects her, is in awe of her, and now has been deflowered by her. That's heavy but it's not the same as in love.

Cats will always get up on the table and eat if you leave food there! I thought that was funny not disgusting and nothing about them looked at all cgi. I thought it showed this was a friendly place, a cozy place, that kept cats. If you don't like or have cats I can see how it would strike you differently but it made me very happy.

Btw, most inns would have cats as they are also mousers. So if you like your food without vermin you're better off at an inn that kept them back then.

Edited September 23, 2014 by lucindabelle

[Rekilt]

SNIP

 

Also, espite what pornography shows us, breasts actually do come in all shapes in sizes.  Some are round, some tear drop shaped, some shaped like bananas. .

BANANAS??? The look on my face right now would make for a funny meme.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I have brothers and they're like hairless rats. Of course, the torso area is all that I know about. Well okay, their butts too, they have mooned me on occasion. They're obnoxious.

Ha, hairless rats! It's true that there are different levels of hairiness. I remember in my 20s, I had a few male friends who were almost hairless and some who were totally hairy so they used to mock each other. The hairy guys would tell the hairless guys, "Don't worry, you'll go through puberty one day and get some hair." The hairless guys would tell the hairy guys, "Dude, your chest looks like a rug."

 

One of the reasons I buy Jamie's relatively hairless state is that he is young and fair skinned. Some of my blonde friends have body hair but it's so lightly colored and sparse that you can't see it unless you are up close and personal or if the sun is behind them. My dad had dark hair but he was almost totally hairless from the neck down (he had a full head of hair, even after chemotherapy/radiation and even when he was over 60). For both reasons, I can believe that Jamie was pretty hairless.

 

Ha, I realize that between this post and my previous one about Jamie's lack of a six pack, it may sound like I am into fat furry guys, but it's really just that I dislike the way movies and television make us think that guys are naturally hairless and chiseled. I like a more realistic portrayal of people's bodies in general. To me, Jamie looks muscular but real. It would be totally unrealistic for a man like him in that time period to be totally ripped. He could be muscular and strong, but not totally ripped. Again, that's not a knock on Sam's body at all. He looks totally toned and in shape, but in a way that doesn't scream "I am at the gym eight hours a day." If you look back at male bodies over the last 50 years, most movie stars and even models didn't have the pronounced TVA muscle definition that is commonplace now, and six packs were only seen on professional athletes and bodybuilders in the Mr. Universe competition.

[annlaw78]

So it sounds like Randall knows who Claire married (Colum's nephew), so how come the Mackenzie's aren't in trouble for harboring a fugitive? Why isn't Randall demanding Dougal hand over the bridegroom? I'm confused...

[BooBear]

So it sounds like Randall knows who Claire married (Colum's nephew), so how come the Mackenzie's aren't in trouble for harboring a fugitive? Why isn't Randall demanding Dougal hand over the bridegroom? I'm confused...

Yes this is a gaping plot hole to me. It really bugs.  There may be an explanation in the book but the show needs to be more complete.

[glitterpants]

Excuse me I'm not body shaping I m just noticing and in my view actors who get praised for their beauty are putting their looks on display. Yes, breasts come in all shapes and sizes and I already said I was glad they hadn't been enhanced, but the breasts on boardwalk empire also aren't (a requirement for the job) and in my opinion look much better. I was startled that they were that low on a young woman. She's built very angular though so I guess it's just how she's made.

 

 

You acknowledge that breasts come in all shapes and sizes and yet keep saying that hers are low for a "young woman" (whatever that means, because as we've seen people have different definitions of the term). I think that'll be my last post on this particular subject because I feel weird now.

[absnow54]

Yes this is a gaping plot hole to me. It really bugs.  There may be an explanation in the book but the show needs to be more complete.

 

Yeah, that plot hole continues to bug. I guess Dougal tells Randall that she's married to Collum's nephew and nothing more. Randall possibly knows that Jamie is Collum and Dougal's nephew since Dougal was present at the flogging, but I'm not 100% on this. Also, Jamie listed two other MacKenzie sisters Janet and Jocasta(?) during the tell-me-about-your-family montage (I watched it with closed captioning) so it's not like Jamie is the only possible nephew they could be marrying off.  BJR was awfully quick to recall "that boy" last week though, so I wouldn't put it past him to make the connection. I just think it's silly to treat BJR's current interest to catch Claire as a very serious threat, while ignoring the looming danger BJR poses to Jamie, especially after we saw his twisted infatuation with breaking him last week. Like, you must save Claire lest you want BJR to ask her questions! Which is much worse than the flogging and hanging you'll receive if he finds out we have you! To me it paints an even bigger target on both of their backs.

Edited September 23, 2014 by absnow54

[WatchrTina]

 

Jamie's lack of a six pack

I protest!  Check out the scene when he wakes up and sees Claire and then goes to get the pearls.  Maybe it's the lighting or maybe it's just that he engages his abdominals to sit up but his abs look mighty fine (and well-defined) in that moment.

[nara]

Yeah, that plot hole continues to bug. I guess Dougal tells Randall that she's married to Collum's nephew and nothing more. Randall possibly knows that Jamie is Collum and Dougal's nephew since Dougal was present at the flogging, but I'm not 100% on this. Also, Jamie listed two other MacKenzie sisters Janet and Jocasta(?) during the tell-me-about-your-family montage (I watched it with closed captioning) so it's not like Jamie is the only possible nephew they could be marrying off.  BJR was awfully quick to recall "that boy" last week though, so I wouldn't put it past him to make the connection. I just think it's silly to treat BJR's current interest to catch Claire as a very serious threat, while ignoring the looming danger BJR poses to Jamie, especially after we saw his twisted infatuation with breaking him last week. Like, you must save Claire lest you want BJR to ask her questions! Which is much worse than the flogging and hanging you'll receive if he finds out we have you! To me it paints an even bigger target on both of their backs.

This does appear to be the biggest plot hole.  Hoping they'll fill it soon.  However, I don't know if Dougal and Jamie know the extent of BJR's obsession with Jamie.  It's not clear if Claire gave them the details of her conversation with him.  If they realized how clearly BJR remembers Jamie, I think they'd be much more concerned. 

[ohhellsyeah]

He obviously remembers Jamie, but does he remember him by name or simply as the red headed dude that he couldn't break? Obviously, he has access to records and such, but perhaps he didn't bother given that there are so many other people he can torture.

If any plothole is bugging me it is why Dougal brought Claire along in the first place (no scenes of her treating the McKenzie crofters) and why he let her witness his Jacobite fundraising. But I suppose it happened in another episode and sometimes you have to fanwank the things that are perplexing.

[WatchrTina]

The best fanwank I heard for why Dougal brought her along is that he didn't want to leave her alone at Leoch where she might ingratiate herself with Colum and convince him to change his mind (again) and let her go.  Colum claimed that it was his own decision to not let Claire leave with the tinker but I suspect it was really Dougal's doing.  Dougal is more suspicious of Claire than Colum so he thinks "keep your enemies closer" (which may also be why he brought Jamie along -- that and the fund-raising value of Jamie's scars.)  It's a stretch but it's the best one I've heard because, yeah, brining Claire along is a puzzler.

Edited September 23, 2014 by WatchrTina

[mybabyaidan]

I protest!  Check out the scene when he wakes up and sees Claire and then goes to get the pearls.  Maybe it's the lighting or maybe it's just that he engages his abdominals to sit up but his abs look mighty fine (and well-defined) in that moment.

 

I actually couldn't take my eyes of of his arms.  Damn, I knew they were well defined, but the second time they have sex...

 

Sam is just a beautifully made man (and Cait is breathtaking.  I would kill to have her skin)

[Constantinople]

Those aren't the stones you're supposed to be touching, lassie.

[ganesh]

Dougal is more suspicious of Claire than Colum so he thinks "keep your enemies closer" (which may also be why he brought Jamie along -- that the fund-raising value of Jamie's scars.)

 

 

We've also seen that he does kind of like her too. So that's probably part of it. He's told her flat out that he thinks she's hiding something, and he knows she's 'seen battle'. That's weird enough to keep her nearby for me. I think it's a reasonable inference from what the show has shown us, than just fanwank or speculation. 

[BooBear]

We've also seen that he does kind of like her too. So that's probably part of it. He's told her flat out that he thinks she's hiding something, and he knows she's 'seen battle'. That's weird enough to keep her nearby for me.

Yes, I think he took her because he likes her (though probably lying to himself) and other reasons like not allowing her to get the ear of his brother. I don't for a second think he did it for her healer abilities.  Perhaps another reason he feels badly about putting her in the sites of BJR, because she didn't need to be there but for his desire to have him with her.

 

But for me the BJR thing bugs because if you have ever known a psychopath you know that they NEVER let something go -- especially if someone outsmarted them.  I would see BJR quietly seething and investigating every bit of it. That "woman" and "scott" didn't get the best of HIM and if he found out they did... he would make sure to get revenge.  So to me this plan seems like an excellent plan to put a red sheet in front of a bull.  But in no way keeps Claire safe. As I have mentioned BJR could easily trump up evidence against Claire and who would stop him? It would take but one or two nights in jail for her to be flogged or worse and he would get his revenge.

 

I think a better plan might have been for Claire to marry Lt Foster. 

[lucindabelle]

 I am not "body shaming" by noticing. Just because there are "norms" doesn't mean everybody fits them, but indeed, having your nipples that low at that age is not the norm (you can look it up if you think I'm just pulling this out of my butt; I did some research last year when my own started changing). clearly, the show is set up that we all say oooooh, beautiful... and I'm just like, meh.  Again: actors put their looks on display. It's fair game. Just because something is natural doesn't necessarily make it beautiful. Obviously, mileage varies. I have seen lots of natural breasts (I go to the gym, went to girls camp, etc. and so on), I don't work in Hollywood, I'm not too tainted by Modern Life to see that hers are Beautiful. To me, they just aren't. I'm entitled to that opinion. 

 

 I find the show overall a little disappointing, and as someone who doesn't read romance novels, I'm getting a little tired of the obvious manipulation to make me have the Feels for these two.

 

There are huge plot holes, including the thing about Jamie being a fugitive that they've just outed, the ring on her finger, and so on and son on. I love the scenery but boy, this show moves slowly.

[taanja]

 

I think a better plan might have been for Claire to marry Lt Foster.

 

I disagree. Lt. Foster is an unknown entity. They know literally nothing of him but his name. He is therefore a wild card and not a good bet.

 

Jamie at least is a known commodity --- easier to manipulate and control.

 

[justmehere]

I'm pretty sure they said that Randall (or the English) can't compel them to give up married-Claire, even with evidence of a crime, without the laird's permission. That was the point. That's also why Jamie is on MacKenzie land and/or at Castle Leoch: for clan protection. BJR going after the laird's nephew or his wife would likely start a war. He may know who's who and what's what, but I don't think he can do much about it, legally anyway. I'd guess that's why Ned said the whole thing was precarious and they had to follow the law to the letter -- so they didn't leave any loopholes.

[Kat From Jersey]

I haven't read the books and had a vague idea that this was some kind of epic love story...

Jeez Ron Moore has turned me into a fangirl and only one episode left. No fair. I'm gonna have to read the damn books.

 

It's so very hard to describe the book series to anyone who isn't familiar.  I tend to call the series a historical-fiction/adventure/dramedy.  With a smidgeon of fantasy (the time-travel aspect) thrown in for good measure, but only a smidgeon.  It's an epic love story in that Jamie and Claire are truly soul mates (pardon the corny expression, which I never use, but here it fits).  Their love story isn't the main focus, but the backbone of the whole series.  The books are great, by the way.

 

My daughter and I watched this ep twice in a row, and commented on how Sam looks so different as Jamie from scene to scene.  We've decided that his face is quite angular and maybe not that symmetrical, so it looks very different depending on the angle and lighting of any given scene, and how his hair is styled.  He can also look very young, or much older, depending again on the camera angles and lighting.  This should work well as the series progresses and Jamie gets older.  Hopefully there will be quite a few seasons to come.

 

Oh, and Sam is just so frickin' adorable!

Edited September 23, 2014 by Kat From Jersey

[absnow54]

I'm pretty sure they said that Randall (or the English) can't compel them to give up married-Claire, even with evidence of a crime, without the laird's permission.

No, it's unless there's evidence. Right now Randall doesn't have any proof that Claire's up to no good, only a hunch. Because she was an English subject, they could take her into custody. By making her Scottish they can only take her in with the Laird's permission, or with solid evidence that she's committed a crime. That's why Jamie isn't safe either, because they have proof that he's a criminal, and it's why he generally hangs low whenever red coats or the night watch is around. 

[justmehere]

Dougal: "An English officer cannot compel a Scottish person, unless there is proof a crime has been committed, and even so, cannot force a Scottish subject from clan lands without permission from the laird concerned."

Edited September 23, 2014 by justmehere