S02.E05: Regent

[proserpina65]

There's something which really bugged me during Alicent's attempt to get Criston to confirm that Aemond had something to do with Aegon being wounded: her making a comment about what Aemond had "somehow" become as if she didn't have a clue.  Now it's entirely possible he was always going to turn into a monster and nothing anyone did would've made a difference.  However, he didn't seem like a psycho as a kid, so maybe parents who actually paid attention to him and, idk, stopped his older brother's bullying, would've helped.  Alicent, honey, next time you wonder how your sons ended up as lousy human beings, maybe take a few minutes and look in a mirror.

[paigow]

19 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

…and roasting your own capital city is a quick way to lose allies.

The problem is that Small Folk will end up hating both sides...

6 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

 Alicent, honey, next time you wonder how your sons ended up as lousy human beings, maybe take a few minutes and look in a mirror.

Bad Mothers for $400 

[proserpina65]

4 minutes ago, paigow said:

6 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

 Alicent, honey, next time you wonder how your sons ended up as lousy human beings, maybe take a few minutes and look in a mirror.

Bad Mothers for $400 

I wonder what the son fostered by his uncle in Oldtown is like.  

I actually argued at the beginning of this season that she wasn't a terrible mother, but obviously I've changed my mind about that.

[Ambrosefolly]

31 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

I wasn't referring to the kids on the show.

Most of Aemond's online detractor even said, while Aemond was being underhanded, don't feel he stole the dragon. So no adult character on the show, and neither the Green or Black (mostly) fanbases feel that way.

26 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

Problem was, neither were named as Hand, and obviously Rhaenys had no authority to act in Rhaenyra's stead while she was away on her stupid mission to Kings Landing.

Everyone within the show knows that Daemon was Rhaenrya's Hand, even if it wasn't formally announced. It is half the reason she married him, so together they wouldn't be as easily challenged. And while she really couldn't name Rhaenys as Hand, once Daemon was away, Rhaenrya's was taking her advice the most and Rhaenys was running interference. Hopefully, it will be interesting when Daemon finds out that Coryls is officially the Hand. 

[proserpina65]

7 minutes ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Most of Aemond's online detractor even said, while Aemond was being underhanded, don't feel he stole the dragon. So no adult character on the show, and neither the Green or Black (mostly) fanbases feel that way.

There were commenters who did assert that he'd stolen Vhagar.  Not many, necessarily, but they were here.  And there is a significant portion of the Black Twitter fanbase who still insist that he did.

 

9 minutes ago, Ambrosefolly said:

And while she really couldn't name Rhaenys as Hand, once Daemon was away, Rhaenrya's was taking her advice the most and Rhaenys was running interference.

Rhaenys tried to run interference but the other members of the council mostly didn't listen to her precisely because she hadn't been named Hand and didn't have the authority that comes with it.

[Jack Shaftoe]

I forgot how weird was when at the beginning the Greens wer all "Behold the traitor dragon!". It's not like the dragon chose to fight for the Blacks or had sworn fealty to Aegon only to rebel later. What's next, "Behold the traitor armor/ship/sword"?

1 hour ago, baldryanr said:

She's not talking about the smallfolk marching out into the open field.  If they get desperate enough, the people could riot, and those thousands of armored men aren't all inside the city.

You don't need thousands of men if you had a well fortified citadel to hide in, and wait for the actual thousands of men to arrive and slaughter the mob. There is a reason why urban mobs weren't much a factor in politics in the Middle Ages - they tended to lose very badly whenever they rose up. More importantly, it's Rhaenyra who is making the smallfolk suffer right now (the complete idiocy of not allowing people to leave the capital aside), so why should anyone risk their life to rebel in her name?

[Is Everyone Gone]

50 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

There's something which really bugged me during Alicent's attempt to get Criston to confirm that Aemond had something to do with Aegon being wounded: her making a comment about what Aemond had "somehow" become as if she didn't have a clue.  Now it's entirely possible he was always going to turn into a monster and nothing anyone did would've made a difference.  However, he didn't seem like a psycho as a kid, so maybe parents who actually paid attention to him and, idk, stopped his older brother's bullying, would've helped.  Alicent, honey, next time you wonder how your sons ended up as lousy human beings, maybe take a few minutes and look in a mirror.

Alicent reminds me a lot of Sir Caroline Collingswood of Succession. Awful distant mother who is never there for her kids when they need her. Her turning her back on Aegon when Aegon was genuinely grieving the loss of his son and going to bang Cole was a move I think would have embarrassed even Sir Caroline.

[baldryanr]

8 minutes ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

More importantly, it's Rhaenyra who is making the smallfolk suffer right now (the complete idiocy of not allowing people to leave the capital aside), so why should anyone risk their life to rebel in her name?

Because they can't get to her, and your overloads are supposed to take care of you.  If the Greens remain incapable of solving their problem, then why are they deserving of loyalty?

Bobby B made this same point about the Dothraki coming over- if the lords all decided to hide in their castles and leave the smallfolk to their fates, then what's the point of staying loyal?

[Jack Shaftoe]

7 minutes ago, baldryanr said:

Bobby B made this same point about the Dothraki coming over- if the lords all decided to hide in their castles and leave the smallfolk to their fates, then what's the point of staying loyal?

And Bobby B was wrong since that tactic worked perfectly well on many occasions against the Mongols or for the English against the French. Yes, it was inhumane but it did not leave to a revolution. Also, nobles weren't all complete dumbasses and they worked out methods of getting everything valuable that could be moved inside the fortresses.

The people of King's Landing may well rise (hell, they probably will since otherwise Mysaria wouldn't mention the possibility) but I hope they won't do it for Rhaenyra but simply out of anger and frustration with the situation. And the Greens are honestly asking for it with their idiotic strategy of locking everyone in but that's what generations of inbreeding tend to lead to.

Edited July 15 by Jack Shaftoe

[proserpina65]

17 minutes ago, Is Everyone Gone said:

Awful distant mother who is never there for her kids when they need her. Her turning her back on Aegon when Aegon was genuinely grieving the loss of his son

I cut Alicent a break based on her lack of good parenting role models since her mother had died and her father was, well, Otto, and on her having been forced into marriage as a teenager.  But there's also a willful lack of self-reflection when it comes to her children.  Honestly, it never occurred to her to tell Aegon to stop bullying his brother?  Hell, in the post-wanking scene in season one, she even condones it as long as it doesn't happen in front of others, especially Rhaenyra's sons.  And a few negative consequences for his behavior wouldn't have harmed Aegon one bit.

11 minutes ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

The people of King's Landing may well rise (hell, they probably will since otherwise Mysaria wouldn't mention the possibility) but I hope they won't do it for Rhaenyra but simply out of anger and frustration with the situation.

I think this will be the case and that Mysaria isn't suggesting convincing them to rebel on Rhaenyra's behalf but knows that a dysfunctional Kings Landing will be to her benefit nonetheless.

[DigitalCount]

I'm about to ask a really dumb question and sound like a complete clown. 

Did anyone else see...something...between Daemon and Alys during this episode? It was probably just me but maybe it wasn't. Not really an important addition to the conversation, but I'm fine with looking silly.

[Roseanna]

18 hours ago, Oscirus said:

Larys is right can't start a war over Rhae's right to rule while at the same time having a queen regent. Kinda kills the message.

In real history a right to inherit a crown and hold a recency were different things In  France only a man could inherit, whereas a woman was deemed fit to be regent, because there were no chance she could upsurp the crown which was always a fear with a male regent.

In this case, if the king had an underage male heir, Aemund would be a danger to his life.

[Roseanna]

1 hour ago, Is Everyone Gone said:

Alicent reminds me a lot of Sir Caroline Collingswood of Succession. Awful distant mother who is never there for her kids when they need her. Her turning her back on Aegon when Aegon was genuinely grieving the loss of his son and going to bang Cole was a move I think would have embarrassed even Sir Caroline.

 

39 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

I cut Alicent a break based on her lack of good parenting role models since her mother had died and her father was, well, Otto, and on her having been forced into marriage as a teenager.  But there's also a willful lack of self-reflection when it comes to her children.  Honestly, it never occurred to her to tell Aegon to stop bullying his brother?  Hell, in the post-wanking scene in season one, she even condones it as long as it doesn't happen in front of others, especially Rhaenyra's sons.  And a few negative consequences for his behavior wouldn't have harmed Aegon one bit.

Royal and aristocratic mothers didn´t take care of their children themselves, nurses and nannies did that. When boys became seven years old, they were raised by men. 

While parents were rather like supervisors, children were demanded a lot.

However, Alicent wasn'tt the only responsible, one can't forget her husband and father.    

 

[iMonrey]

2 hours ago, Is Everyone Gone said:

Her turning her back on Aegon when Aegon was genuinely grieving the loss of his son and going to bang Cole was a move I think would have embarrassed even Sir Caroline.

I was never fully convinced Aegon was grieving for his son. I thought it more likely he was grieving for himself, for the fact that such an atrocity took place under his nose and under his reign. It's clear he knows deep down he's not fit to be king, which he never wanted in the first place, and that was just another incident which underscored it. 

I give Tom Glynn-Carney a lot of credit for brining something to the role that isn't necessarily on the page, but we were never shown any evidence that he had any special love for his kids. We know what he did with his bastard children and we've yet to see him interact once with his surviving daughter.

Quote

Royal and aristocratic mothers didn´t take care of their children themselves, nurses and nannies did that. When boys became seven years old, they were raised by men. 

But we've seen Helaena constantly with her children so I think it's more of a choice.

Edited July 15 by iMonrey

[Is Everyone Gone]

24 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I give Tom Glynn-Carney a lot of credit for brining something to the role that isn't necessarily on the page, but we were never shown any evidence that he had any special love for his kids. We know what he did with his bastard children and we've yet to see him interact once with his surviving daughter.

I feel like Tom Glynn-Carney gives an extremely empathetic, emotional performance of a character that is supposed to be 100% loathsome. 

I feel like on the other hand, Matt Smith gives an extremely detached, cold performance that makes viewers dislike Daemon more than it's intended?

[magdalene]

1 hour ago, DigitalCount said:

I'm about to ask a really dumb question and sound like a complete clown. 

Did anyone else see...something...between Daemon and Alys during this episode? It was probably just me but maybe it wasn't. Not really an important addition to the conversation, but I'm fine with looking silly.

I see it too.  It could be Daemon in thrall to Alys.  It could be simply Matt Smith doing his thing with a scene partner.

After seeing the poor loyal puppy dog again I will now live in dread for the next  3 episodes that one of the starving folk will kill the pup and eat it.

[scarynikki12]

32 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I give Tom Glynn-Carney a lot of credit for brining something to the role that isn't necessarily on the page

For sure. Tom is so good in the role. Aegon absolutely sucks yet Tom has me wishing they could go back in time and make sure he's raised to be a mischievous but harmless prince who just flies around on Sunfyre all day. 

[magdalene]

17 minutes ago, Is Everyone Gone said:

I feel like Tom Glynn-Carney gives an extremely empathetic, emotional performance of a character that is supposed to be 100% loathsome. 

I feel like on the other hand, Matt Smith gives an extremely detached, cold performance that makes viewers dislike Daemon more than it's intended?

I will agree on Carney - he has been a revelation.

I don't agree on Smith. It is well known that at least some of the writers were shocked during the first season how beloved Daemon was in spite of the writing.

This season they are really hammering home that you are not supposed to like Daemon. It doesn't matter to me I will always have a soft spot for Matt Smith starting with his Doctor.

[Is Everyone Gone]

12 minutes ago, magdalene said:

I will agree on Carney - he has been a revelation.

I don't agree on Smith. It is well known that at least some of the writers were shocked during the first season how beloved Daemon was in spite of the writing.

This season they are really hammering home that you are not supposed to like Daemon. It doesn't matter to me I will always have a soft spot for Matt Smith starting with his Doctor.

I think it's because I first got familiar with Smith when he played Prince Philip on The Crown, and he had this sneering swagger that later versions of Philip totally lacked. So I kind of see that in his Daemon too.

But speaking of royal mothers not being very involved, in Westeros at least we've seen that Rhaenyra is decent, and Helaena appears to be a loving, involved mom.

Ali's shittiness as a mom has always stood out even by Westeros royal standards. Hell, Cersei was more affectionate with her kids.

[jeansheridan]

2 hours ago, DigitalCount said:

Did anyone else see...something...between Daemon and Alys during this episode? It was probably just me but maybe it wasn't. Not really an important addition to the conversation, but I'm fine with looking silly.

There's a chemistry there. She's not afraid of him at all. I think he is curious and intrigued by her lack of deference. But then she cares for his hands and tries to help him sleep. Like a good nurse/doctor. 

Then again, Daemon tends to snap. His first wife didn't seem afraid of him. Nor did Rhynaera until he choked her. 

[paigow]

2 hours ago, DigitalCount said:

Did anyone else see...something...between Daemon and Alys during this episode? It was probably just me but maybe it wasn't.

Mrs. Potts & Cogsworth agree...

 

[proserpina65]

2 hours ago, Roseanna said:

However, Alicent wasn'tt the only responsible, one can't forget her husband and father.    

Oh believe me, I put plenty of the blame on them, too.

1 hour ago, jeansheridan said:

There's a chemistry there. She's not afraid of him at all. I think he is curious and intrigued by her lack of deference. But then she cares for his hands and tries to help him sleep. Like a good nurse/doctor. 

I don't see chemistry.  And for me, her "good doctoring" is all about fucking with his head.

 

[DigitalCount]

1 hour ago, magdalene said:

After seeing the poor loyal puppy dog again I will now live in dread for the next  3 episodes that one of the starving folk will kill the pup and eat it.

Is it too much to hope for one of the soldiers maybe considering the dog a good companion for some reason or another and taking him in? It's somehow more painful to think that something bad might happen to the dog because

a) he's a dog (a real creature that exists in the real world)

b) he looks particularly cute and trusting, even though he's obviously seen better days

c) he's still so loyal to his master (Cheese?) even though he was abusive

[paigow]

Have any new rat catchers been hired? Said dog should be following one of them around...

5 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Hopefully, it will be interesting when Daemon finds out that Coryls is officially the Hand. 

Daemon has NFTG... He will find a work-around...

[Is Everyone Gone]

Also hats off to Olivia Cooke and Fabian for they so perfectly convey the characters' fundamental dislike of each other, despite being in a situationship.

[Stardancer Supreme]

19 minutes ago, paigow said:

Have any new rat catchers been hired? Said dog should be following one of them around...

No.

Spoiler

Because the rat problem was so bad, the smallfolk introduced cats into KL. That's why Arya's job was to catch the castle cat so many years later.

 

[CeeBeeGee]

10 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

One thing I appreciated about Arya was her 8 season journey to becoming a skilled fighter. I can't believe that none of women dragon riders bothered to get some martial training! As if the dragon was enough.

So, so, so many dudes complain about Arya's killing the NK. "It was supposed to be Jon!" I like to point out that she had been training for eight seasons, all the way back to her water dancing.

 

4 hours ago, DigitalCount said:

Did anyone else see...something...between Daemon and Alys during this episode? It was probably just me but maybe it wasn't. Not really an important addition to the conversation, but I'm fine with looking silly.

I saw it too. I think he's fascinated by her.

I have to say--I love me a good dream sequence (I'm writing a novel right now and scaring myself with various nightmares my MC is having) and it's a great story-telling device but Daemon's visions have been happening for three episodes now and it's starting to bore me. He needs to do something.

Boy, the PTB in King's Landing sure do like staging decapitation parades! (That said, I threw up my hands so I wouldn't have to see poor Meleys. She did not deserve that treatment, and calling her a traitor is patently ridiculous.)

[Ambrosefolly]

18 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

There were commenters who did assert that he'd stolen Vhagar.  Not many, necessarily, but they were here.  And there is a significant portion of the Black Twitter fanbase who still insist that he did.

Edited: After a night of sleep, my response was rude to me. When you made that comment, it contradicted what was on the show and what is said on this forum.  Twitter might say that, but the videos and comments on Youtube discussing if Aemond stole the dragon favor Aemond. If you go to book talk thread here, it is fairly easy to argue that Aemond had the superior claim to Vhagar over Rhaena if it was possible that dragons can be stolen. I also can't take seriously a forum (Twitter) that chased Fabian Farkle off for daring to play an unlikable character.

Quote

Rhaenys tried to run interference but the other members of the council mostly didn't listen to her precisely because she hadn't been named Hand and didn't have the authority that comes with it.

No, but Rhaenrya did take her council more than the other men, so she didn't have to give a fuck if they didn't listen to her because Rhaenrya was the authority.

12 hours ago, paigow said:

Daemon has NFTG... He will find a work-around...

You don't make your house the richest in all of the kingdoms by being run over by anyone, even if the person in question is Daemon. Coryls will put up with even less than Rhaenrya. Rhaenys didn't take his shit either (though Daemon did turn out to be right about him and her taking on Vhagar.)

In regards Alicent and the small council picking Aemond over her. I think what got to her was she didn't get any support from Larys and Cole, two people she helped raise their station nearly single-handedly and they turn against her the moment they didn't need her. 

Edited July 16 by Ambrosefolly

[paigow]

Corlys is now sailing on the Kobayashi Maru - both Daemon & Aemond want him dead...

[Oscirus]

11 hours ago, paigow said:

Aemond might find some fire-flavoured Metamucil soon to deal with that...

Kinda crazy that he hasn't at least tried to bust up some ships with vhagar.

Also loved Jace negotiating. WTF you scared of Vhagar over there when I have a dragon right here? If team black wins, he's gonna make a helluva queen.

[Roseanna]

22 hours ago, DigitalCount said:

It's all well and good that Alicent knows how to do stuff, and she was absolutely right about herself (and about her son), but she was the one who went full steam ahead with the patriarchy to begin with; did she really think that doors she was happy to shut wouldn't be shut on her in turn, by her own logic?

She wasn't a modern woman and had no such concepts as patriarchy. She simply did what she was raised to do - promote her family's interest. 

In addition, even Otto didn't expect to be supplanted by a younger man when his grandson became the king (a thing which happens almost always).

Generally, it's easy to us to see clearer than the characters. Rhaenyra realizes only now that while Viserys named her as his heir, he didn't raise her to be a ruler. (Of course she also herself wasted years she could have learned things and made alliances.) 

Daemon still doesn't realize that he has no preconditions to be a ruler and Viserys, with all his faults, realized it. 

[Roseanna]

5 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

Oh believe me, I put plenty of the blame on them, too.

Sorry, I just watched the first five episodes and haven't read all.

In any case, I think Otto is most to blame for not raising Aegon properly. He planned all else (how to make his grandson the king) so well but not the most important thing (what kind of king he would become). Or did he simply think that when the king is weak, he would rule instead of him?

[baldryanr]

5 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Or did he simply think that when the king is weak, he would rule instead of him?

Yes?  Even before he got fired he and Alicent talked about how Aegon would get bored with the nitty gritty of ruling.  A disinterested (or incapacitated, in the case of Viserys) king means the Hand is really the one running things.  Robert Baratheon spent all his time eating, drinking, and sleeping around, but the Kingdom was fine for years because Jon Arryn was a good administrator. 

[aghst]

On 7/15/2024 at 4:06 AM, ottoDbusdriver said:

Rook's Rest is quite a way from Kings Landing and should have taken days if not weeks to get to King's Landing by land.

Aegon should have already been dead by the time he was returned for treatment of his wounds suffered in battle -- but it looked like he was fresh from the battlefield.  

Someone noted that there’s no sign of technological progress between HotD and GoT eras.

The maesters may devote their lives to the medical arts of the time but there are no skin grafts.  Agon should be a goner but he may benefit more from plot armor than Valaryian armor.

The common folk shouting “we want meat” so what are they feeding the dragons?  Plus there’s all this dragon meat available …

So Damon wants to renew his claim on the Iron Throne now?  Seemed pretty nonplussed about hearing of the demise of Meleys and Rhaenys.

The feuding clans were shown as at a stalemate but now one side was able to abduct children and wives and the men say they will never bend the knee to Damon?  He told Blackwood to persuade them but instead of diplomacy, it was atrocities.

First it was infanticide, now stealing families.  Damon’s claim to the throne can’t include touting his ability to effectively delegate.

Well at least he didn’t roast the defiant ones when they chose fire so he’s trying?

[Chicago Redshirt]

19 minutes ago, aghst said:

The common folk shouting “we want meat” so what are they feeding the dragons?  Plus there’s all this dragon meat available …

So Damon wants to renew his claim on the Iron Throne now?  Seemed pretty nonplussed about hearing of the demise of Meleys and Rhaenys.

The feuding clans were shown as at a stalemate but now one side was able to abduct children and wives and the men say they will never bend the knee to Damon?  He told Blackwood to persuade them but instead of diplomacy, it was atrocities.

First it was infanticide, now stealing families.  Damon’s claim to the throne can’t include touting his ability to effectively delegate.

Well at least he didn’t roast the defiant ones when they chose fire so he’s trying?

They are feeding the dragons the common folks' meat. 

There are presumably informal rules of the feud that exist in part because of some level of civility and in part because of some level of mutually assured destruction. That ended through the meeting with Daemon. Daemon didn't want diplomacy, unless it was more of the GOT equivalent of "an offer you can't refuse." Given Daemon's sanction to force the Brackens to bend the knee through a terror campaign, the Blackwoods felt unleashed to do stuff that they could have done before (or the Brackens could have done before) but were too afraid of retaliation. The Blackwoods ignored part of Daemon's explicit instruction that the atrocities should not be traced back to the Targaryens by literally flying the Targaryen banner when doing them.

He didn't roast the Brackens through any trying...he did it because he needed troops. 

[Affogato]

Aegon started out as king trying to compromise with the small folk over the sheep and including his heir in the council. He gave his narcissistic brother a position of respect and strength. Otto and alicent made sure he was devalued for it and put in his place. He was capable of being a decent king, but the people surrounding him didn’t support him. I’m not saying he is a great person, and I think his coping mechanisms were bad, but he was a more or less normal one. 

Edited July 16 by Affogato

[paigow]

Aemond is going to cancel Entourage after pacifying the Small Folk

[paigow]

3 hours ago, aghst said:

So Damon wants to renew his claim on the Iron Throne now?  Seemed pretty nonplussed about hearing of the demise of Meleys and Rhaenys.

Eliminating Vhagar gives him the best dragon remaining. Likely that his tag team proposition was a ruse to friendly-fire Meleys...

[KBrownie]

14 hours ago, paigow said:

Corlys is now sailing on the Kobayashi Maru - both Daemon & Aemond want him dead...

Daemon wants Corlys dead? Since when? 
 

11 hours ago, Roseanna said:

She wasn't a modern woman and had no such concepts as patriarchy. She simply did what she was raised to do - promote her family's interest

I’m sorry, but this simply isn’t true.  No, the word “patriarchy” may not have existed, but Alicent certainly did more than “simply what she was raised to do” and actively used the patriarchy against Rhaenyra to get what she wanted.  Just because was there was no word for it, doesn’t mean it didn’t exist.  Alicent had her own personal vendetta against Rhaenyra and absolutely used Rhaenyra’s status as a woman to accomplish her goals. From the moment she got pissed that *gasp* Rhaenyra chose to protect herself from Alicent and her father, she was never innocently “simply doing what she was raised to do.”  She’s a hypocrite  She actually thought she was the exception.  She can help and enable usurping Rhaenyra based on the fact that she’s a woman, but that shouldn’t apply to her.

 

10 hours ago, Roseanna said:

I think Otto is most to blame for not raising Aegon properly.

No, that’s Alicent. She was too concerned about raising her kids to hate Rhaenyra and Rhaenyra’s children to raise her kids to be decent people and then stupidly thinks she can control them now. Maybe instead of actively teaching them to hate and fear someone who was indifferent to them and covering up their crimes, she could have tried to teach them how to be good rulers if she was convinced it was their destiny.  Otto was gone for ten years anyways. Alicent raised those kids. Yeah, Viserys was also responsible, but Alicent told him straight up that he had no say and weak Viserys just went along.

Edited July 16 by KBrownie

[tennisgurl]

Cole made a big mistake parading Meleys's head around as a victory, all he did was show the common folk that dragons aren't the mystical god-like being they thought they were, and neither are the Targaryens. The dragons are just animals and the Targaryens are just people, which is not a great thing for them as the regular people in Kings Landing are getting increasingly angry. The Greens and the Blacks (particularly Daemon) really need to start taking the threat of angry peasants more seriously, there are way more of them them than there are royalty. 

Aegon looked like he was a medium rare steak, those were nasty looking burns. You know things are bad when there are silent sisters on standby and Alicent shows Aegon some tenderness. I actually did feel a little something when Aegon called out for his "mummy" even after all of the shit he's pulled. 

I'm ready for Daemon to end his time tripping balls at Harrenhal, even though I am enjoying how many people are calling him out, subtly or not so subtlety. Ser Simon, the Riverland nobility, Alys, even if he seems to be doubling down. This show has been pretty focused so far, which I think is a point in its favor over its parent show (especially in later seasons) but Daemon at Harrenhal is smelling of one of those "we have to find something for the actor to do when they aren't doing plot things" subplots that cluttered things up in GoT. 

Alicent really got smacked in the face with the reality stick, she cant base her families entire claim to the throne on women not being fit to rule and then be all surprised that they don't think that she, a woman, should rule. I think she would do a decent job as regent, although Aeomd gets points for taking down the rotting rat catchers, but she really tends to underestimate other people. 

That poor puppy is still following his masters corpse around, please let someone adopt this sweet good boy! 

Jace and Baela were carrying Team Black on their beautifully dressed backs this week, Baela getting her grandfather back in the game and Jace securing an alliance with the Frey and getting the twins, which is a very valuable location as we all know. Sure it means they need to give them Harrenhal, but I feel like Ser Simon would be very "go ahead and take it, this money pit is your problem now" about it.

Edited July 17 by tennisgurl

[proserpina65]

13 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

it contradicted what was on the show and what is said on this forum.

It did not contradict what was said in this forum by at least some commenters.  Take a look at the comments after Driftmark and later episodes last season.  Not the majority of people here, but at least a few.

10 hours ago, Oscirus said:

WTF you scared of Vhagar over there when I have a dragon right here?

Honestly, Vermax is not particularly scary.

9 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Or did he simply think that when the king is weak, he would rule instead of him?

I think that was the case.  He should've made the effort to prepare Aegon for the throne but he preferred to keep him dependent on the great, wise Otto.  That really bit Otto in the ass.

3 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

They are feeding the dragons the common folks' meat. 

They're feeding the dragons animals (sheep, goats, cattle) commandeered from the Crown Lands.  That's what the scene between Aegon and the shepherd was about.  Presumably some of those animals would've been available for the owners to sell for slaughter otherwise.  The poor still would've struggled to buy food, though.

3 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

That poor puppy is still following his masters corpse around, please let someone adopt this sweet good boy! 

Adopt him and smuggle him off to Essos where he'll be safe.

 

[Is Everyone Gone]

I think the main difference between HotD and GoT is that on GoT, there were a number of people who were pretty good leaders, but circumstances got in the way. You could have made a case for Tywin, Cersei, Tyrion, Jaime, Sansa, Jon, and Dany to be leaders. This doesn't mean they were good people or compassionate leaders. Just that they had the qualities of leadership. They were smart and wily and resilient.

On HotD, each choice is worse than the last. Everyone is weak, undecisive, impulsive, and in many cases flat out dumb. It's way more realistic but the stakes seem lower, because really, who would actually be a good king/queen of Westeros?

[Jack Shaftoe]

I don't think Alicent's desire to become a regent is so outrageous despite her faction fighting to keep a woman from the throne. A Queen Mother like Blanche of Castile could be regent (and a very successful one too, IIIRC) even in extremely patriarchal cultures like Medieval France. It's just she thought it was basically a done deal and forgot that to her "allies" Criston and Larys betrayal comes as easily as breathing and Aemond is the hero of the day.

Quote

On HotD, each choice is worse than the last. Everyone is weak, undecisive, impulsive, and in many cases flat out dumb.

And that would be fine if their dumb actions were criticized more rather than rewarded and/or praised in an extremely contrived fashion. People keep singing praises to Viserys despite the whole civil war being primarily his fault, for example.

[paigow]

31 minutes ago, KBrownie said:

Daemon wants Corlys dead? Since when? 

Since Daemon decided to take the throne... Corlys is not an ally

[KBrownie]

4 hours ago, aghst said:

So Damon wants to renew his claim on the Iron Throne now?  Seemed pretty nonplussed about hearing of the demise of Meleys and Rhaenys.

It’s pretty obvious that Daemon has not been in his right mind since his arrival at Harrenhal.  Alys Rivers is a witch, greenseer, whatever you want to call it, who for reasons still unknown, is causing these hallucinations that are obviously impacting him. She’s tapping into his biggest insecurities and guilt and obviously knows a lot about him other than the basics. I’m not taking anything he says while under her influence at face value. She wants something from him, but I don’t think she’s going to get it. 
 

He doesn’t want the throne. What he desperately wants, first from his brother and now Rhaenyra, is to be wanted and trusted and valued. If he truly wanted the throne, he’s had lots of opportunities to take it. With his status as Prince and brother to the king, he had the access long before Rhaenyra existed to get rid of the king or any of his offspring. He didn’t even have to do himself. He’s always had people loyal to him and the money to pay if he wanted someone killed.  But he never has.  He loved his brother.  He loves Rhaenyra.  Is he a good person? No, of course not, but this insistence that “he only wants the throne” doesn’t make much sense at this point. 
 

Daemon never shows any outward emotions about anything, so why would news of Rhaenys’s death be any different. The closest he came was when he heard of the death of his brother. He wasn’t close to Rhaenys. I think they grudgingly respected each other and in a lot of ways acted like typical cousins, but he was never going to shed any tears over that. I do think hearing about Meleys played a part in his hallucination of his mother. Meleys was his mother’s dragon. The dragon we learn he tried to claim after she died and was rejected. Alys probably tapped into his mind and used that against him. In his hallucination, his mother was saying everything Daemon has always wanted to hear, that he was the stronger son, she should have been king, it was unlucky he wasn’t born first, etc.  

[proserpina65]

4 minutes ago, KBrownie said:

He doesn’t want the throne.

He damned well wants the throne.  It might not be the only reason he married Rhaenyra but it's part of it.  Whatever Alys is doing is tapping into things that are already inside Daemon.  She's not pulling this out of thin air.

Edited July 16 by proserpina65

[Ambrosefolly]

25 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

It did not contradict what was said in this forum by at least some commenters.  Take a look at the comments after Driftmark and later episodes last season.  Not the majority of people here, but at least a few.

But then it wasn't "all this talk." It was a few people talking. Other people pointing out while Aemond was an asshole to a kid that just lost her mother and didn't do a thing to him prior, he wasn't out of line to claim Vhagar (especially this season when we found out it was weeks between Laena's death and her funeral). Some also pointing out that dragons aren't slaves and other saying that Aemond might have a better claim than Rhaena if dragons could be inherited. There was an overwhelming amount at least here that argued otherwise. 

[proserpina65]

5 minutes ago, Ambrosefolly said:

But then it wasn't "all this talk." It was a few people talking. Other people pointing out while Aemond was an asshole to a kid that just lost her mother and didn't do a thing to him prior, he wasn't out of line to claim Vhagar (especially this season when we found out it was weeks between Laena's death and her funeral). Some also pointing out that dragons aren't slaves and other saying that Aemond might have a better claim than Rhaena if dragons could be inherited. There was an overwhelming amount at least here that argued otherwise. 

It was a few people doing a lot of talking, so yes, imo, it was all this talk.  Since it is my opinion, I will leave it there as it was a minor point in my original post.

Edited July 16 by proserpina65

[KBrownie]

1 hour ago, paigow said:

Eliminating Vhagar gives him the best dragon remaining. Likely that his tag team proposition was a ruse to friendly-fire Meleys...

You mean what Aemond did to his brother and Sunfyre? Daemon wanted to take out Aemond and Vhagar because they are the biggest threat to Rhaenyra’s cause and to get revenge for Luke. His plan was the right one. What exactly would be his motivation for killing Rhaenys and Meleys? Because he “wants the throne?” Something that didn’t come up until he was at Harrenhall being drugged and someone making him hallucinate? Why do all that and unnecessarily take out a dragon when he can just have Rhaenys killed if he wanted? Same with Rhaenyra.  He sleeps with her every night. He could just slip her some poison. Daemon isn’t trying to kill anyone but the Greens. I swear there’s a need to try and make Daemon equal to Aemond and Aegon for “both sides!” except a lot of what he’s accused of he hasn’t actually done. 

 

42 minutes ago, paigow said:

Since Daemon decided to take the throne... Corlys is not an ally

And when did this happen?  Daemon has not mentioned Corlys, nor had any interaction with Corlys since Season 1, so when did Corlys become his enemy?  Why would Corlys even be his enemy in the first place? Corlys was upset in this last episode about Rhaenys, but he and Daemon were working in support of Rhaenyra’s cause.  Even with his Harrenhall delusions he hasn’t mentioned Corlys. And given his guilt surrounding Corlys’s daughter and his treatment of her as hallucinations show, I doubt he’d kill her father. The grandfather of his daughters. 

[baldryanr]

37 minutes ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

I don't think Alicent's desire to become a regent is so outrageous despite her faction fighting to keep a woman from the throne. A Queen Mother like Blanche of Castile could be regent (and a very successful one too, IIIRC) even in extremely patriarchal cultures like Medieval France. It's just she thought it was basically a done deal and forgot that to her "allies" Criston and Larys betrayal comes as easily as breathing and Aemond is the hero of the day.

Aemond is what, 16?  Her being regent if he was 10 is one thing, but 16 is functionally an adult in this world.  She's naive if she thought they'd pick her over a willing prince who also happens to be the heir (thanks Daemon!) and controls the most powerful creature in the world.

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

This show has been pretty focused so far, which I think is a point in its favor over its parent show (especially in later seasons) but Daemon at Harrenhal is smelling of one of those "we have to find something for the actor to do when they aren't doing plot things" subplots that cluttered things up in GoT. 

Bingo.  They have to keep him away from the main action, but since he's portrayed by Matt Smith they're unwilling to keep him offscreen (the same thing happened with Peter Dinklage).  Otto is doing important stuff too, but we don't see it because Rhys Ifans isn't the top billed actor.