S03.E04: Old Friends

[mledawn]

14 hours ago, oliviabenson said:

I forgot the end carriage scene was. cringe. No way pen would let Colin finger her like that. I mean fr. Just no.

I dunno - she has loved him since she was fifteen years old. That’s thirteen years. She probably would have let him do more.

[oliviabenson]

7 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Yes! I nearly begin to long for heroines who, however much they loved the hero, woul slap his face.

Instead of proposing, Colin would have thought: "Why buy a cow if I can have milk for free" or "If she lets me do it without any promise, she will allow other men do it, too, if they try the same". 

It was simply too soon. The couple should at least have burned towards each other for a long time, like Anthony and Kate. 

 

I like what you said. Colin would have enjoyed having fun x rated fun with Pen and never married her. She did ask for a kiss and it didn’t work out with the Lord.

Basically she would have been his side chick at best.

or pen married the lord and while he was away had x rated fun with Colin. As a married woman she is more free to go places without chaperones.

Anyways it’s a show so let’s see what happens!

[oliviabenson]

36 minutes ago, mledawn said:

I dunno - she has loved him since she was fifteen years old. That’s thirteen years. She probably would have let him do more.

I didn’t read the book but I thought pen and Colin would be 22-25 or so. She’s 28? 

[chitowngirl]

This kind of series really benefits from an all season build to its conclusion. I wonder if it will lose viewers who just aren’t going to tune back in June. Of course, there are viewers who are going to wait to binge the whole thing at once. But with lukewarm (at least here!) reviews…will they tune in at all? 

[shapeshifter]

20 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

This kind of series really benefits from an all season build to its conclusion. I wonder if it will lose viewers who just aren’t going to tune back in June. Of course, there are viewers who are going to wait to binge the whole thing at once. But with lukewarm (at least here!) reviews…will they tune in at all? 

I thought it should have been released 1 episode per week so fans/viewers/haters could dissect every look, costume, etc. — sort of like each episode is a new copy of Lady Whistledown's Scandal Sheet, and we are the Gentle Readers.
The only reasons not to do so that I can fathom are:

1. if it doesn't hold up under scrutiny
2. if the audience is not deemed up to the task

It was probably a little of both plus a lot of behind-the-scenes Netflixian dickering about budgets and summer audiences and such. 

[Orcinus orca]

42 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

This kind of series really benefits from an all season build to its conclusion. I wonder if it will lose viewers who just aren’t going to tune back in June. Of course, there are viewers who are going to wait to binge the whole thing at once. But with lukewarm (at least here!) reviews…will they tune in at all? 

I have so underwhelmed that it has been sort of background viewing rather than an event. I will probably watch the second half but definitely not in June. More likely next fall when summer wanes.  It just did not do much for me.  I was spoiled by the smoldering chemistry of Kathony.  This is just too childish and bland.

[Roseanna]

2 hours ago, mledawn said:

I dunno - she has loved him since she was fifteen years old. That’s thirteen years. She probably would have let him do more.

 Wouldn't that mean that Pen doesn't give herself any value?  

[mledawn]

This season is not wanting for viewers. It's the most watched Bridgerton series by a lot.
https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/netflix-top-10-streaming-ratings-1235697082/

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, mledawn said:

dunno - she has loved him since she was fifteen years old. That’s thirteen years. She probably would have let him do more.

18 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

 Wouldn't that mean that Pen doesn't give herself any value?  

Yep. That's our ol' Pen! Doesn't think she's of any value. 
But this season we see her deciding to at least grasp a little value by "settling," initially by means of a new spring green wardrobe and coquettish hair styling to attract a husband who…? IDK. Doesn't value her??
I guess ol' Pen did not see the oxymoronic logic in this approach.

My real problem as of this episode is that it looks like Pen is going to suddenly obtain "worth" by means of Colin bestowing it upon her. 
But I suspect the last 4 episodes will give a bit of a feminist twist to it. Hopefully.

 

 

[Chicago Redshirt]

4 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Pen had a crush on Colin, but that's only "calf-love". And Colin spoke the truth when he said that he couldn't court Pen.

I haven't noticed any chemistry between then, save as friends. It's not enough that the audience knows that they are "endgame".

In the old days, when sex couldn't described in the novels and movies, there could still be strong sexual tension. 

Huh...I don't think I've ever heard the term "calf-love" before. It apparently means the same thing as the more common "puppy love."

Anyway, I think Pen's feelings for Colin went beyond a mere adolescent crush. 

My mileage varies as to their sexual chemistry; I think that the carriage scene this episode and the kiss scene earlier were HOT, even as the president of the Down With Whistledown Society.

 

[RachelKM]

3 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

even as the president of the Down With Whistledown Society.

For all our back and forths, I fucking love you for this. 

[lovett1979]

Upon re-watching, I discovered a lovely bit of writing that I don't think anyone has commented on yet.

In the scene between Penelope and Lord Vegetarian (sorry, not gonna look up his name), he mentions the "feelings" between Pen and Colin and she responds that "it's laughable to think Colin would have feelings for [her]" and that they are friends and nothing more. First, that is most certainly a callback to Season 2 when he actually laughs (!argh!) at the idea of courting Pen. Second, he then asks if she'd like them to be more than friends. She does not/cannot answer that because to speak the desire, and "know" it cannot happen, is too painful.

In the carriage, though, after Colin proclaims his feelings for her, she says that they are friends, but then says that she would very much like them to be something more. Finally answering the question put to her earlier in the evening!

[chaifan]

4 hours ago, mledawn said:

I dunno - she has loved him since she was fifteen years old. That’s thirteen years. She probably would have let him do more.

That's Bridgerton book math.  Not Bridgerton show math.  In the show, Pen's only around 20 - this is her 3rd season.  I understand that in the book by the time she gets with Colin she's older.  (I haven't read the books, just picked that up from these forums, so I don't think that's a spoiler in any way.)  So for show purposes, she's been crushing for about 5 years, max.

[mledawn]

32 minutes ago, chaifan said:

That's Bridgerton book math.  Not Bridgerton show math.  In the show, Pen's only around 20 - this is her 3rd season.  I understand that in the book by the time she gets with Colin she's older.  (I haven't read the books, just picked that up from these forums, so I don't think that's a spoiler in any way.)  So for show purposes, she's been crushing for about 5 years, max.

Ahh, okay - my bad.
My sentiment still holds though 😆

[PRgal]

LOL on Colin being Pen's f-buddy while being married to Lord Veg.  I also noticed (I think it was this episode) that Prudence and Philippa both said that they thought they were pregnant.  I thought people didn't use that word back then, but rather, "with child?"

[shapeshifter]

Possible Colin-Pen match plot conflict:

At the ball/dance, when Pen and Lord Vegan are talking *around* a possible proposal:

• [LORD VEGIE] And how, dare I ask, might this fictional gentleman ask for the young lady’s hand?  Especially if she had no male relative.…
• [PEN] Well, I suppose he would have to ask her mother.
• [LORD VEGIE] I see.

Later, Pen's mother talks to Pen at their home:

• [LADY FEATHERINGTON] Lord Debling has requested my permission to propose.
• [PEN] Did you give it?
• [LADY FEATHERINGTON] Of course I did. You have done very well. You know, I’ve heard that Lord Debling has one of the largest homes in Mayfair, 24 staff, a fleet of curricles. And he tells me he travels often, which means it will be up to you to manage his estate. Can you imagine the kind of influence that will give you? The kind of influence it will give… all of us?
• [PEN] Mama, I have not said yes yet.
• [LADY FEATHERINGTON] But of course you will.

But then we have the final part of the carriage scene at the end of the episode with Colin telling Pen to come into his house, ostensibly so he can announce their betrothal, right? 
But the very last spoken line is Colin's:

• For God’s sake, Penelope Featherington. Are you going to marry me or not?

We are all assuming of course she is going to marry Colin and live happily ever after, since she did not accept Lord Veghead's proposal. 

However, what about Colin's financial prospects? 
Discussed upthread and quoted here👇, but I think more historically, not necessarily Bridgertonly, or…?

On 5/19/2024 at 4:27 PM, clyo22 said:

Also why are Benedict and Colin such "catch"? They are younger brothers of a viscount. They are noble, yes but untitled and without land or estate of their own. Would they truly be so sought after back then? Is the Bridgerton's fortune really so immense that it will insure a comfortable future for all those sons with no properties of their own?

On 5/19/2024 at 5:17 PM, RachelKM said:

They are sought after because they are from a noble family and, if consistent with books, well off in their own rights.

That isn't always true of younger sons. But when a family had sufficient funds, younger sons were provided incomes and sometimes portions of the unentailed portion of the estate.

Might Pen's mother refuse to give Colin permission?

 

Edited May 23 by shapeshifter

[Ohiopirate02]

3 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Might Pen's mother refuse to give Colin permission?

 

Lord Vegetarian withdrew his suit and Colin is not hurting for money.  Portia would never refuse Colin.  She needs all three of her girls married to respectable men in order for one of them to produce the male heir who will inherit the Featherington estate.  Or if that lawyer from episode one realizes the will is forged, then all three Featherington girls are married with husbands that can support them plus Portia.  She would lose her home, but Portia is a survivor who would make the best out of splitting her time between married daughters.

[Chicago Redshirt]

9 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

 

Might Pen's mother refuse to give Colin permission?

 

Intriguing.

I would imagine, as upset as she might be about not getting to be related to the wealth/power of Lord Veggie, Lady F would consider Colin an awesome consolation prize.

Also, I tend to doubt that Lady F is in a position to find out why Lord Veggie has not proposed, or at least think that if she asks, Lord Veggie will give some circumspect answer.

We know from Colin's history with Marina that he's not necessarily going to feel like he needs to ask for permission. 

I also think that Lady F isn't purely a materialistic/opportunistic schemer. I think that on some level in particular, she cares about Pen and would be happy to see her get her dream man. (I am assuming that she is clever enough to be well aware of Pen's feelings toward Colin, and if she hasn't been, she'll find out about them soon enough.)

Edited May 23 by Chicago Redshirt

[libgirl2]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

My real problem as of this episode is that it looks like Pen is going to suddenly obtain "worth" by means of Colin bestowing it upon her. 
But I suspect the last 4 episodes will give a bit of a feminist twist to it. Hopefully.

 

 

I think there will be. Pen will get her value because of herself (she is LW and has fooled them all) not him. 

Edited May 23 by libgirl2

[quarks]

1 hour ago, PRgal said:

LOL on Colin being Pen's f-buddy while being married to Lord Veg.  I also noticed (I think it was this episode) that Prudence and Philippa both said that they thought they were pregnant.  I thought people didn't use that word back then, but rather, "with child?"

I was curious, so, I did a very quick and not at all in depth search.

Here's Jane Austen:

"The rest of his letter is only about his dear Charlotte’s situation, and his expectation of a young olive-branch."  (Pride and Prejudice, from a letter from Mr. Collins to Mr. Bennet)

"....but, however, I can’t help wishing they had not travelled quite so fast, nor made such a long journey of it, for they came all round by London upon account of some business, for you know (nodding significantly and pointing to her daughter) it was wrong in her situation. I wanted her to stay at home and rest this morning, but she would come with us; she longed so much to see you all!”

Mrs. Palmer laughed, and said it would not do her any harm.

“She expects to be confined in February,” continued Mrs. Jennings."

(Sense and Sensibility; Mrs. Palmer is the daughter of Mrs. Jennings.)

Abigail Adams, a few decades earlier, also used "confinement" when writing to her husband, John Adams, a couple of weeks after giving birth to a stillborn daughter:

"Notwithstanding my confinement I think I have not omitted writing you by every post. I have recoverd Health and strength beyond expectation; and never was so well in so short a time before...."

So these two women, at least, seem to have preferred to use vague terms like "situation" and "confinement." I don't know how typical this was, though?

[PRgal]

14 minutes ago, quarks said:

So these two women, at least, seem to have preferred to use vague terms like "situation" and "confinement." I don't know how typical this was, though?

I wonder if the 21st century writers somehow just...forgot.  And being able to say "pregnant" out loud is pretty recent, isn't it?  Apparently they couldn't say it on I Love Lucy?

Edited May 23 by PRgal

[janie jones]

18 hours ago, Roseanna said:

It was simply too soon. The couple should at least have burned towards each other for a long time, like Anthony and Kate.

It was unrealistically soon, but if this show did endless scenes of them breathing in each other's faces like Kate and Anthony, I would cringe to death. I was glad they (the show) got to the point right away.

[Ohiopirate02]

14 minutes ago, janie jones said:

It was unrealistically soon, but if this show did endless scenes of them breathing in each other's faces like Kate and Anthony, I would cringe to death. I was glad they (the show) got to the point right away.

I don't even see them as being unrealistic.  Colin and Penelope know each other.  We have seen this in the last 2 seasons.  This is not the time for a slow burn.

[quarks]

4 hours ago, PRgal said:

I wonder if the 21st century writers somehow just...forgot.  And being able to say "pregnant" out loud is pretty recent, isn't it?  Apparently they couldn't say it on I Love Lucy?

I mean these are the same writers that had Lord I Cannot Remember His Name asking Francesca "What makes you tick?" which did not strike me, personally, as something that would ordinarily be said in an early 19th ballroom.  So there's that.

I did a bit more searching, and it looks as if although various people did use the word "pregnant" before the 1960s, it wasn't necessarily in common use until then - most people seem to have used "with child," or "expecting," or "situation," or "confinement."

That said, although CBS supposedly did tell I Love Lucy that the show had to use the word "expecting" instead of "pregnant," the fact that CBS felt the need to clarify that kinda suggests that plenty of people were using the word by in the 1950s. Which doesn't really justify using "pregnant" in Bridgerton's early 19th century setting, I suppose, but the number of historical inaccuracies in this show are so glaring as it is that I'm willing to overlook this one.

[Roseanna]

2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I don't even see them as being unrealistic.  Colin and Penelope know each other.  We have seen this in the last 2 seasons.  This is not the time for a slow burn.

We have seen that Pen has a teen crush on Colin who can't image of court her, but we haven't seen what has changed him (except she had a more becoming gown and a suitor). 

I guess the next episodes deal about Lady Whistledon. 

[andromeda331]

On 5/22/2024 at 6:38 PM, Sakura12 said:

I still find Colin so boring. They are not doing him any service by focusing more on Penelope than him. Showing him whoring around doesn't make him interesting. However I'm interested in the Lady Whistledown secret being outed and I really hope it's Penelope that tells him. Eloise will want to protect her brother. 

So do I.  Nothing they've shown of him makes him any less boring. He doesn't do anything. Anthony had his viscount duties, and Benedict art, Colin ? There's no sparks with him and Penelope or with anyone else. They've actually made me feel bad for Cressida but Colin? I feel nothing. Not when they kissed or had sex.  

I hope I'm wrong but my only thought when Colin and Penelope had sex in the carriage was I really, really, hope Penelope doesn't end up pregnant and it's a three pregnancy "race" for the Featherington Heir. Please show, don't do that.

[Chicago Redshirt]

You know, I just was randomly thinking about the show and specifically Will Mondrich. That character's arc so far this season is him being elevated to the aristocracy and contending with its strange rules both freeing and confining a self-made man such as himself.

This subplot seems disconnected from all the other goings-on. But what if the writers try to connect them?

Colin in a previous season was going to do business with Lord Featherington v.2, but Mondrich had a spidey-sense about him, and ended up warning Colin off. That in turn led to Colin bringing Mondrich an influx of new customers.

Maybe Colin will come to Mondrich's aid as people start to shun the business again. Maybe Colin will help Mondrich work through his conflict over being nouveau riche.

Maybe Colin will complain about how all Featheringtons are scam artists. 

It just occurred to me also that it is weird that Simon is MIA when his old boxing buddy is now finding himself elevated in society. I appreciate the real-world reasons that we aren't going to get on-screen Simon, but it might have been nice to have an allusion to Simon still existing and caring about his boy Mondrich.

I also wonder if Mondrich is going to ever have to pay the piper for throwing the fight that got him the riches he used to set up the club. The gangsters who took out Lord Featherington 1.0 have to know that he was involved, and maybe when he was a random working man he was not worth the effort. But now that he's a quasi-lord or regent or whatever, maybe they want payback.

[Roseanna]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

Nothing they've shown of him makes him any less boring. He doesn't do anything. Anthony had his viscount duties, and Benedict art, Colin ?

Well, IRL a gentleman with enough funds could well do nothing, in fact he was expected to do so. Unfortunately that's not today an attractive feature in an hero. And of course a character's temper is best shown in action. 

I think the writer's decision to make all Bridgetor siblings wealthy was a mistake, because the result was to leave out many plot lines.  

[maddie965]

I didn't mind the sex on the carriage. It was unexpected and hot. What I don't get is: "Hey, I just fingered you and you had your first orgasm, but let's talk to my parents right now!"

Just no.

[shapeshifter]

3 minutes ago, maddie965 said:

I didn't mind the sex on the carriage. It was unexpected and hot. What I don't get is: "Hey, I just fingered you and you had your first orgasm, but let's talk to my parents right now!"

Just no.

Didn't we learn in a previous season that being seen alone with a man was cause for permanent ruin (WRT marriage)?

IDK. Sounds a bit like a Schrödinger's Cat, since if someone sees you, you're not alone. That's my logical excuse for swimming alone in the early morning in the condo pool.

But it does seem like a good rule to teach young women at a time when they had zero rights or power or anything.

[Orcinus orca]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Didn't we learn in a previous season that being seen alone with a man was cause for permanent ruin (WRT marriage)?

Every time someone couple wanders off together I remember the whole feigned hysteria where Lady F demanded marriage when one of her daughters was alone in the Orangery with they shyster cousin. 

Continuity, people, at least make a stab at it.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, Orcinus orca said:

Every time someone couple wanders off together I remember the whole feigned hysteria where Lady F demanded marriage when one of her daughters was alone in the Orangery with they shyster cousin. 

Continuity, people, at least make a stab at it.

A young lady is only ruined if she is discovered.  By other members of the Ton naturally.  Maids, footmen, carriage drivers, etc.  may know but they don't count.  Lady Featherington caused a scene in the orangery to force the new Lord F to propose to her daughter.  If no member of the Ton saw Colin leave the ball with Penelope, then he did not ruin her.  Now his sense of propriety and his sense of honor may and probably is telling him he must now propose to Pen after what he did in the carriage.  

[lovett1979]

5 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I hope I'm wrong but my only thought when Colin and Penelope had sex in the carriage was I really, really, hope Penelope doesn't end up pregnant and it's a three pregnancy "race" for the Featherington Heir. Please show, don't do that.

What they did in the carriage has a 0% chance of causing a pregnancy. But maybe you were anticipating future sex and a Pen pregnancy? 

[Ohiopirate02]

5 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

You know, I just was randomly thinking about the show and specifically Will Mondrich. That character's arc so far this season is him being elevated to the aristocracy and contending with its strange rules both freeing and confining a self-made man such as himself.

This subplot seems disconnected from all the other goings-on. But what if the writers try to connect them?

Colin in a previous season was going to do business with Lord Featherington v.2, but Mondrich had a spidey-sense about him, and ended up warning Colin off. That in turn led to Colin bringing Mondrich an influx of new customers.

Maybe Colin will come to Mondrich's aid as people start to shun the business again. Maybe Colin will help Mondrich work through his conflict over being nouveau riche.

Maybe Colin will complain about how all Featheringtons are scam artists. 

It just occurred to me also that it is weird that Simon is MIA when his old boxing buddy is now finding himself elevated in society. I appreciate the real-world reasons that we aren't going to get on-screen Simon, but it might have been nice to have an allusion to Simon still existing and caring about his boy Mondrich.

I also wonder if Mondrich is going to ever have to pay the piper for throwing the fight that got him the riches he used to set up the club. The gangsters who took out Lord Featherington 1.0 have to know that he was involved, and maybe when he was a random working man he was not worth the effort. But now that he's a quasi-lord or regent or whatever, maybe they want payback.

I could see Colin becoming Mondrich's partner in the club.  While it is technically true that a gentleman does not sully his hands by being seen to work, there is leeway here.  One requirement of that leeway is being from an old aristocratic family who does not have to give a shit about social norms as well as being a younger son.  Will is too new to society for him to be still working, and his place there is rather convoluted.  He's there because he is the legal guardian of a peer not because he is a peer.  He is being held to a higher standard than Colin.  Colin could do whatever he wants and society will reward him for it.  

[PatsyandEddie]

Colin has a journal of his travels. Not all of it can to be about visiting brothels. Colin strikes me as a type to visit museums and art galleries as well. Perhaps being a writer is in his future. 
pen did say he used to write her the most beautiful letters in the past. 

[janie jones]

13 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I don't even see them as being unrealistic.  Colin and Penelope know each other.  We have seen this in the last 2 seasons.  This is not the time for a slow burn.

Well to each their own, but my husband and I were friends for a while and did not immediately fuck when we told each other how we felt, and we live in the 21st century. I would assume that people in olden times who had to worry about shaming themselves and their families would also not hop into bed instantly.

12 hours ago, quarks said:

Which doesn't really justify using "pregnant" in Bridgerton's early 19th century setting, I suppose, but the number of historical inaccuracies in this show are so glaring as it is that I'm willing to overlook this one.

I feel like if "pregnant" is going to be considered wrong, then the string quartets also shouldn't be playing songs that won't be written for hundreds of years. To me, this show is sort of the opposite of when they set Shakespeare in a modern setting.

[libgirl2]

11 hours ago, Roseanna said:

We have seen that Pen has a teen crush on Colin who can't image of court her, but we haven't seen what has changed him (except she had a more becoming gown and a suitor). 

I guess the next episodes deal about Lady Whistledon. 

Colin was always kind to her but viewed her as his little sister's friend and never considered her romantically. They seemed to have a good rapport and were friends with each other as time went on. Suddenly, Pen blossomed and someone else was interested. He started seeing  her in a new light. 

These things do happen IRL. 

[Roseanna]

6 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

Colin was always kind to her but viewed her as his little sister's friend and never considered her romantically. They seemed to have a good rapport and were friends with each other as time went on. Suddenly, Pen blossomed and someone else was interested. He started seeing  her in a new light. 

Which proves that Colin is very shallow.

[libgirl2]

6 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

Which proves that Colin is very shallow.

I don't see it that way. Sometimes, you discover the one thing or person you always wanted was there all along, you were just too pre-occupied (or stupid) not to see it. 

I always think of the Hollywood trope when the tomboy with a crush on some guy, suddenly puts on some make up and a dress and he realizes how beautiful she is. Breakfast Club had that with Ally Sheedy and Emilio Estevez. He started to notice her after awhile and then she fixed herself up and boom! I know it is cliched. 

Penelope improved herself and put herself out there, not for Colin but for a husband in general. 

Edited May 24 by libgirl2

[Ohiopirate02]

8 minutes ago, janie jones said:

Well to each their own, but my husband and I were friends for a while and did not immediately fuck when we told each other how we felt, and we live in the 21st century. I would assume that people in olden times who had to worry about shaming themselves and their families would also not hop into bed instantly.

 

Since this is an adaptation of a romance novel, I choose to look at it through a romance novel lens.  The main couple fooling around at the 50% mark is a medium pace for a romance novel verging into it being a slow burn.  With the way the show has been going, I don't expect Colin and Pen to actually have sex until episode 6 after they get married.  The show is not moving fast compared to a typical romance novel.  

[Roseanna]

12 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

With the way the show has been going, I don't expect Colin and Pen to actually have sex until episode 6 after they get married. 

I will answer in the book section.

[PRgal]

Just a weird question:  Since young women are basically kept ignorant about reproduction, what did mothers tell their daughters when they got their first period?

[janie jones]

12 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Since this is an adaptation of a romance novel, I choose to look at it through a romance novel lens.  The main couple fooling around at the 50% mark is a medium pace for a romance novel verging into it being a slow burn.  With the way the show has been going, I don't expect Colin and Pen to actually have sex until episode 6 after they get married.  The show is not moving fast compared to a typical romance novel.  

But when I said "unrealistic" I meant "not like real life" not "not like romance novels."

[andromeda331]

17 hours ago, lovett1979 said:

What they did in the carriage has a 0% chance of causing a pregnancy. But maybe you were anticipating future sex and a Pen pregnancy? 

With all her sisters pregnant and her probably next made me wonder if they plan to have Penelope give birth to the first son. I don't want her to be part of the race for an heir making her more tied to her mother and sisters who still treat her like crap.   

[shapeshifter]

8 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

With all her sisters pregnant and her probably next made me wonder if they plan to have Penelope give birth to the first son. I don't want her to be part of the race for an heir making her more tied to her mother and sisters who still treat her like crap.   

Yes to this👆
The usual Cinderella story (which this essentially is) would have the sisters give birth to daughters and Penelope having a son. 

But the more feminist writing has given us reason to hope that it will be the reverse.

However, there's the financial significance of a male heir to consider — which has been brought up repeatedly on this forum this season, and which makes it seem better if Pen has the first male heir.
But as you say, @andromeda331, that makes Pen responsible for the criminal mother and air-head sisters, who will all then both resent her and want to ingratiate themselves to her. 

The confusing part, which has been mentioned upthread, is Colin's financial state as a younger son. We really don't know, do we? 

And all of this keeps making me think a marriage to wealthy Lord Veghead would have been best — perhaps with Colin as a lover who does not do anything to get her pregnant — and maybe even other such lovers in the future as Colin and Pen's lust for each other burns out, and maybe they grow to have a comfortable friendship. 
Maybe then in this Ton, instead of young men having to watch prostitutes pleasuring each other in order to learn how to satisfy a woman (which I'm guessing never happened IRL at that time or any time?) there could be a very well-kept secret of learning such skills from LWD.

Do writers of this sort of modern-take-on-17th-century-romance-fiction expect (or even hope for?) readers/watchers to speculate about all (or any) of this stuff? 

Edited May 25 by shapeshifter

[quarks]

7 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Do writers of this sort of modern-take-on-17th-century-romance-fiction expect (or even hope for?) readers/watchers to speculate about all (or any) of this stuff? 

Expect, no. Hope, probably  - there's a pretty decent correlation between the amount of chatter about any given art form (TV show, book, whatever), and sales/views/downloads.

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 5/23/2024 at 11:38 AM, mledawn said:

This season is not wanting for viewers. It's the most watched Bridgerton series by a lot.
https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/netflix-top-10-streaming-ratings-1235697082/

Interesting but I can't help but feel there's a little apples to oranges comparison going on. Not every viewer is going to binge an entire series over a weekend.

Some people are going to pace themselves or only have time during an opening weekend for one or two episodes. Some people nope out after one episode. And on the flipside, some people might watch the shorter season twice.

So trying to say that the total number of viewer minutes should be divided by the number of episodes to arrive at how many views strikes me as imprecise at best.

I also question the use of opening weekend viewing as a point of comparison. It's not how you start with viewers, it's how you end up  Opening weekends are a useful metric for theatrical films because of their distribution model. There are only so many films out at a time, and they are only going to be in theaters for a limited period of time, and it's essentially never going to happen that a film is going to maintain or improve on its opening weekend numbers. Whereas I don't think there is anything that would stop more people from streaming a given series in Week 10 as they did in week 1. 

[sacrebleu]

On 5/20/2024 at 4:23 PM, chaifan said:

With all the references to Penelope being a book worm, her love for romance novels, her remarking on Colin's writing style, etc., this episode I also felt like they're setting her up to become a novelist down the road.  Presumably under a pen name.  (ha ha, pen name, get it?)  I haven't read the books, so I have no idea if this is even remotely accurate or not.  But it would make sense. 

Here's where Pen remaining Lady W confuses me...  I said upthread that I'd love for the LW mantle to be passed along, and that would make sense in the Bridgerton world as I know it (on screen, not books).  Each season we've jettisoned the love match from the previous season.  It would track that next season we would not see Colin and Pen.  But how does LW continue if that happens?  If Eloise becomes the next LW, that would work.  But otherwise, Nicola  has to be locked into a contract for what, 4 or 5 more seasons? 

 

Heh, making Pen the Dread Pirate Roberts.

[violet and green]

I've somehow managed to forget almost everything about the previous seasons, so it has been interesting reading all the details in these threads. Lord Veg would be a very boring husband to have, but quite nice to have the place to oneself for three years at a time. I think they've done a nice job of building Colin's confused attraction to Pen, really from the willow scene in whatever episode, and the first kiss before that.

I don't need the Featherington girls (or the Mondriches) so heavily featured. But I suppose they make a nice foil for Pen as Cinderella in that household. I wish somebody else was LW, and Pen was just writing romance novels. 

[Haleth]

I admit to skimming a lot of the posts but I have not seen anyone give credit to the best thing about this episode - Queen Charlotte's wig with the swans a-swimming.  How were they powered?