S23.E11: Castle In The Sky

[Xeliou66]

Here’s the thread for tonight’s episode

[shapeshifter]

• imdb.com/title/tt3209681
• lawandorder.fandom.com/wiki/Castle_In_The_Sky:

  • “Summary
    “When a real estate developer is found dead in one of his buildings, Shaw and Riley sift through a long list of suspects. Concerned for the welfare of the defendant's young daughter, Dixon and her son plead with Price and Maroun for help.”

  • See also:
    lawandorder.fandom.com/wiki/Castle_In_The_Sky#Guest_cast

 

[Spartan Girl]

You guys remember how on this very show, a longtime ago, the great Ben Stone gave us that great speech about how people need to stop making excuses and take responsibility for your crime?

Now it feels like there’s a sob story excuse every week.

Any sympathy I had for the guy being homeless went out the door when he used his own daughter to cover for him. 

 

Edited May 3 by Spartan Girl

[Diana Berry]

Not a bad episode.  
 

I knew the guy was the culprit from the beginning - way too chatty.  Then when they brought in the interpreter son, it confirmed everything and figured the daughter would take the stand.

Wonder if he had been honest upfront if they would have offered a deal? 

[MerBearHou]

Did I miss a scene where the dad had a chance to talk to the daughter while he was in prison so he could tell her what to say / what the story would be?

[Madding crowd]

I assume the dad talked to her before he was arrested. Once again Maroun is on the side of the perpetrator. I felt bad for the guy being evicted from his job but the idea that someone could break into my house and have the right to shoot me because they decided it was now their house doesn’t sit well with me. 

[Spartan Girl]

2 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

the idea that someone could break into my house and have the right to shoot me because they decided it was now their house doesn’t sit well with me. 

That’s what happened in the Botham Jean case. And you better believe that was what I was thinking about this whole episode.

4 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

Once again Maroun is on the side of the perpetrator.

At this point I’m starting to wonder what a perp has to do that won’t get her sympathy.

[EtheltoTillie]

This is the second week recently where  the search of the crime scene resulted in inadmissible evidence because of grey area privacy of the arrestee. 

[MerBearHou]

Among the many things that bother me now about L&O, one of the biggest is Hugh Dancy’s whiney voice.  

[Xeliou66]

Pretty good episode - it was an interesting moral dilemma about the issue of the guy and his daughter living in the penthouse and who had rights - I felt some sympathy for both killer and victim which doesn’t happen often. But I lost sympathy for the defendant when he perjured himself and got his daughter to lie on the stand - I wonder if he had just told the truth if they could’ve reached an agreement for a more lenient sentence for manslaughter or something. The jury got the right verdict, the deceased did nothing wrong and was just walking into his own property when he was killed, it was a tragedy but legally the defendant was guilty, and it would’ve set a dangerous precedent to find him not guilty, it would basically allow trespassers to use violence against people defending their homes and that isn’t right. I thought the deal they were going to make was a bit soft, but I guess they thought they couldn’t get a conviction at that point. 

I really liked getting more focus on Dixon - she’s often underused and it was nice meeting her son and letting her get more screentime. I also liked the conversation between Dixon/Riley at the end, I like their friendship, Riley has been a great addition to the show, it was interesting how Riley called her “Kate” and I liked seeing them just talk as friends instead of as boss/subordinate.

Once again Price/Maroun lose a motion on shaky legal grounds, that gets tiresome, and even more tiresome is how it seemed they didn’t do basic research for trial - they should’ve found out about the gun long before they did. I really wish they would fix those areas of the show - all too often Price/Maroun just look inept. And Maroun is starting to rival Serena in feeling sorry for perps. 
I also wondered if the defense attorney was complicit in suborning perjury - did she know her client and his daughter would lie?

The investigation remains better than the legal side, the detective stuff is great, but the show seems to always lose steam when Price/Maroun come on.

This was pretty good and I liked getting more of Dixon, and it was an interesting case and legal situation, but some stuff with Price/Maroun and the legal writing continues to annoy me. But it was decent overall. 

[buttersister]

Quote

Hugh Dancy’s whiney voice.  

So distracting, although what he says isn’t much better. I figured it’s how he locks in an American accent.

eta: Riley and Dixon were the highlight for me.

Medical debt is a horrible thing, so bringing that in was something. Although in the OG, it would have turned out to actually be the father, instead of trying to red herring him.

Edited May 3 by buttersister

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

This is the second week recently where  the search of the crime scene resulted in inadmissible evidence because of grey area privacy of the arrestee. 

At least they're consistent.  Same decision both weeks. 

I do think the legal side has gotten better now that the DA has a more prominent role. My favorite part of the episode was the DA, ADAs and Dixon all discussing how to handle the case.  I hope we get more of those kinds of scenes.  I used to love it when Anita would come up and talk with McCoy. 

I don't mind that someone takes a sympathetic view.  Cases with nuance are part of why I liked old school L&O and I appreciated that about this episode. But I wish they wouldn't always make it her. 

It would have been more interesting if it had been victim's dad who had been shot since he's the person who exploited a loophole in the law. 

[Ohiopirate02]

12 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Any sympathy I had for the guy being homeless went out the door when he used his own daughter to cover for him. 

 

And you saw the same thing happen in the eyes of the jurors in the episode.  I do have to commend the show for the actors they used for this jury.  You could see them buying into the story put forth by the defense, and see when the defense loses them when Dixon is on the stand.  

[dubbel zout]

10 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I wonder if he had just told the truth if they could’ve reached an agreement for a more lenient sentence for manslaughter or something.

I think so, given that the DA was willing to make a deal before they learned about the perjury.

It was good to see Dixon more involved, and I really like it when they bring in Camryn Mannheim's RL ASL skills.

Anyone else notice that Milena Govich's aunt played the judge? Hee.

[Raja]

18 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Anyone else notice that Milena Govich's aunt played the judge? Hee.

I just noticed that she directed the episode

[Ohiopirate02]

I did notice that Dixon's son is played by the same actor as Theo Dimas in Only Murders in the Building.

[NoReally]

11 hours ago, MerBearHou said:

many things that bother me now about L&O, one of the biggest is Hugh Dancy’s whiney voice.  

Yes! And what's he doing with his mouth? Is that his technique for performing with an American accent? He kinda looks like a ventriloquist's dummy.

[paigow]

33 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I did notice that Dixon's son is played by the same actor as Theo Dimas in Only Murders in the Building.

Rikers must have added Dimas Dips to the menu... 

[blackwing]

Second episode in three where I found myself irritated beyond belief with these writers who try to make me feel sympathy for someone just because they are from a class that is having a rough time.  First the live in helper who was supposed to get a pass because she is from Ukraine.  Now a widower who was homeless and caring for his deaf daughter.

Once again, a judge who threw out crucial evidence based on some level of expectation of privacy.  At least with the Ukrainian killer, that had been her room in the victim's apartment.  This time, the guy was clearly trespassing, and somehow the judge agreed that he was entitled to expect privacy because "he made it his own"?  Ugh.

16 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I assume the dad talked to her before he was arrested. Once again Maroun is on the side of the perpetrator. I felt bad for the guy being evicted from his job but the idea that someone could break into my house and have the right to shoot me because they decided it was now their house doesn’t sit well with me. 

If there is a FIRE MAROUN petition somewhere, I would gladly sign.  She always seems to have a bleeding heart for the defendants.  No crime is too great to be absolved by Saint Maroun.

16 hours ago, MerBearHou said:

Among the many things that bother me now about L&O, one of the biggest is Hugh Dancy’s whiney voice.  

Some British actors can do American accents so well to the point where you wouldn't even know they weren't American.  Others aren't so good.  Iain Glen (Jorah on Game of Thrones and Bruce Wayne on Titans) is particularly awful.  His American accent sounds like he learned it from watching old gangster movies and then he just talks slow and flat.  Hugh Dancy's American accent probably comes from a similar place, from something he watched and now he's decided that's how he thinks he should sound.

[illdoc]

Question: Did the police fire their forensics department??? Any one who's seen even one episode of CSI knows about stippling (the gunpowder left on the victim). It would be easy to tell at a glance (especially for seasoned homicide detectives) whether the shot was fired up close (as in the original "we wrestled for the gun" story) or from several feet away (as in the second "I thought it was an intruder so I fired" story)! It's not like the victim was found outside after several days in the rain so the evidence washed away. 

[EtheltoTillie]

Well, they'd better get a search warrant for every crime scene now.

[Ohiopirate02]

32 minutes ago, illdoc said:

Question: Did the police fire their forensics department??? Any one who's seen even one episode of CSI knows about stippling (the gunpowder left on the victim). It would be easy to tell at a glance (especially for seasoned homicide detectives) whether the shot was fired up close (as in the original "we wrestled for the gun" story) or from several feet away (as in the second "I thought it was an intruder so I fired" story)! It's not like the victim was found outside after several days in the rain so the evidence washed away. 

The show may have.  I have noticed that in this season the trial portion is rushed in ways that make the prosecutors have to do the rest of the investigating. I know the show has always forgone the months in between arraignment and trial, but this season feels like they are starting the trial the day after arraignment.  

[paigow]

On 5/3/2024 at 2:45 PM, blackwing said:

If there is a FIRE MAROUN petition somewhere, I would gladly sign.  She always seems to have a bleeding heart for the defendants.  No crime is too great to be absolved by Saint Maroun.

Some British actors can do American accents so well to the point where you wouldn't even know they weren't American.

Is Hugh Laurie available to overdub Price?? ETA: or anyone from Band Of Brothers

One of the more sympathetic perps was from the Ben Stone era...

Pre Lt. Fancy ordered a hit on deadbeat yuppie cokehead, wrote the address down and gave it to T-Ball, an adolescent button man. Unfortunately, the public education system had failed to educate the young assassin. He was barely literate and went to the wrong address where he killed a baby by firing through the door.

Initially, Stone thought T-Ball was a sociopath for killing a baby but realized that it was a hit gone wrong because T-Ball genuinely believed that the yuppie was behind the door...

How It Should Have Ended...

Marley: I heard a noise.. I got up...

it was dark... I saw him aim a gun at my daughter...

McCoy: The room was so dark that you could not see the face of this intruder, but you could see he was holding a gun?

Edited May 4 by paigow

[Spartan Girl]

3 hours ago, paigow said:

 

Initially, Stone thought T-Ball was a sociopath for killing a baby but realized that it was a hit gone wrong because T-Ball genuinely believed that the yuppie was behind the door...

So it was okay for him to shoot a grown man, but not a baby? Yeah no, I was on the mother’s side in that episode: the kid was still a murderer and he deserved more jail time than he got.

Edited May 4 by Spartan Girl

[Xeliou66]

8 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

So it was okay for him to shoot a grown man, but not a baby? Yeah no, I was on the mother’s side in that episode: the kid was still a murderer and he deserved more jail time than he got.

Agreed - I didn’t feel any sympathy for him - it was tragic that he never learned to read and had a rough background but he was still a cold blooded killer. I didn’t find him to be a sympathetic perp.

[paigow]

18 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

So it was okay for him to shoot a grown man, but not a baby? Yeah no, I was on the mother’s side in that episode: the kid was still a murderer and he deserved more jail time than he got.

Stone shifted focus to convicting Lt. Fancy, not just trying to slam-dunk T-Ball so a plea deal was needed for testimony.... 

ETA: My interpretation / speculation is that the writers were using a child soldier trope variant for T-Ball. Where the puppet master adult poses a greater threat to society.

Edited May 4 by paigow

[Theli11]

I thought this episode was fine, actually adequate. I didn't have much problem with the legal stuff here, it's not that much different from what we've seen from Law & Order in the past, except most if it I'm not blaming on the detectives being overzealous, (we eventually gotta get a scene where they call for a warrant before they even search anything). I didn't even have a problem with the chase scene this episode because it felt good (that punch was brutal). I enjoyed the conflict here, the defendant is a murderer. 100%, and him making his daughter lie on the stand is not cool.. not cool at all. Dixon is amazing, I loved her in this episode and the conversation with Riley parallels with the conversation he had with Shaw earlier in the season. Really good stuff, and I think this season is getting better.. 
 

Shaw also had the best line this episode.. something like "Yeah but a little different.." got a chuckle out of me.. 

My sympathy goes out of the window as soon as I find out his daughter lied for him. Murder 2 is rough, I think Man 1 would've been the better sentence, but he did screw himself in. 

[Raja]

16 minutes ago, Theli11 said:

I didn't even have a problem with the chase scene this episode because it felt good (that punch was brutal).

I was thinking that the dealer knew why the police were coming, you would think he would take the night off and lay low. But then in the end with him talking at the club and not the squad I room can only assume they let him go without a drug charge.

[Theli11]

1 hour ago, Raja said:

I was thinking that the dealer knew why the police were coming, you would think he would take the night off and lay low. But then in the end with him talking at the club and not the squad I room can only assume they let him go without a drug charge.

Could've taken him downtown to check on his story at least.

[Cotypubby]

“Unhoused.” 🙄

Good episode, I had sympathy for the perp’s situation but the idea that a homeless squatter can break into someone else’s home and then shoot them when they come back is disgusting. Then him using his child to lie for him makes him even more scummier.

[shapeshifter]

I was so sure it would turn out the daughter fired the gun. Just me, or were we supposed to wonder?

 

The look on Camryn Manheim's face near the end was Emmy-worthy.

 

Is it really that hard to get a search warrant? It seems like they should have a policy by now of requiring the detectives to get a search warrant for *anything* not in plain sight.🙄
Can Dixon make that a rule?

 

On 5/2/2024 at 9:44 PM, Madding crowd said:

Once again Maroun is on the side of the perpetrator.

The writers are sure giving Maroun the Serena Southerlyn treatment.
I imagine the rough drafts of each episode include something like:
"[Maroun gives the perp's perspective here]"
— which would be okay if it had a little nuance to it. 

 

 

On 5/3/2024 at 3:07 PM, illdoc said:

Question: Did the police fire their forensics department??? Any one who's seen even one episode of CSI knows about stippling (the gunpowder left on the victim). It would be easy to tell at a glance (especially for seasoned homicide detectives) whether the shot was fired up close (as in the original "we wrestled for the gun" story) or from several feet away (as in the second "I thought it was an intruder so I fired" story)! It's not like the victim was found outside after several days in the rain so the evidence washed away. 

Oops!

 

On 5/2/2024 at 10:37 PM, MerBearHou said:

Among the many things that bother me now about L&O, one of the biggest is Hugh Dancy’s whiney voice.  

On 5/2/2024 at 11:46 PM, buttersister said:

So distracting,

On 5/3/2024 at 10:17 AM, NoReally said:

Yes!

I am very easily annoyed by voices with whiney pitches, so I guess that's not the complaint here, since Hugh Dancy's voice is fine with me as far as that goes. So it's his accent that's the issue, right? 

On 5/3/2024 at 2:45 PM, blackwing said:

Some British actors can do American accents so well to the point where you wouldn't even know they weren't American.  Others aren't so good.…Hugh Dancy's American accent probably comes from a similar place, from something he watched and now he's decided that's how he thinks he should sound.

Has the show stated where Price was supposed to have grown up?
Maybe they need to give him a backstory of a parent from the UK if it's bothering so many viewers?

Dancy's accent as Price doesn't bother me, I guess because I've lived and worked with so many different accented English speakers from various countries and regions of the country.
As long as I can understand the words, accents don't generally distract me. 
But, in a real life example where a regional pronunciation was a problem for me: 
Recently I was confused when a helpful stranger (apparently from the Finger Lakes area of NY state?) in a grocery parking lot hollered at me as I was heading into the store: "You dropped your begg!"
(Referring to one of my reusable shopping bags.)
So I guess that's how Dancy's "accent" is sounding to those viewers who are bothered by it in this show?
If so, that could be very distracting.

 

At least this week the obligatory chase scene didn't gobble up as much dialog time, presumably because they needed it for ASL portion of the plot. 
I'd like to see more of Dixon's son (James Caverly, aka Theo from OMITB), in part because the presentation of ASL on screen can add to the audience's ability to follow the plot. But maybe it doesn't work that way for everyone?

 

Edited May 5 by shapeshifter

[paigow]

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

 

Recently I was confused when a helpful stranger (apparently from the Finger Lakes area of NY state?) in a grocery parking lot hollered at me as I was heading into the store: "You dropped your begg!"
(Referring to one of my reusable shopping bags.)
 

 

Lucky that stranger was not from Easttown or you would still be in the parking lot...

ETA: Alternatively, if he was a Tamarian- he might have thrown a dagger at your feet and really confused you...

Edited May 5 by paigow

[blackwing]

10 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I was so sure it would turn out the daughter fired the gun. Just me, or were we supposed to wonder?

I thought it was going to be one of those situations too.  Where the daughter actually fired the gun because she thought that the victim was going to shoot her dad.  Dad tells his story.  Daughter is on stand and she says she did it.  Dad insists she is lying to try and save him.  Jury doesn't know who to believe and guy is found not guilty because there is doubt.  Or something like that.

I get that the dad is going to prison for murder 2, but shouldn't there be any consequences for him instructing his daughter to lie?  Obviously she wouldn't have just lied on her own.  Shouldn't there be consequences to the daughter for perjuring herself?  Or does she get a pass because she's a kid?

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

 

I get that the dad is going to prison for murder 2, but shouldn't there be any consequences for him instructing his daughter to lie?  Obviously she wouldn't have just lied on her own.  Shouldn't there be consequences to the daughter for perjuring herself?  Or does she get a pass because she's a kid?

She's a kid who is going to end up in the foster system until she ages out.  I really would not call that getting a pass.  I know the writers did not work out the logistics of who made the plan and how the dad communicated it, but I wonder how it could have gone down.  The dad was in jail and the daughter was staying with people who know ASL.  I assume the show had the daughter visit her dad in jail, so who was the adult that went with her? The lawyer?  If it was, she's in a heap of trouble for turning a blind eye to her client and his daughter conspiring to commit perjury because they used ASL to communicate.  

[blackwing]

6 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

She's a kid who is going to end up in the foster system until she ages out.  I really would not call that getting a pass.  I know the writers did not work out the logistics of who made the plan and how the dad communicated it, but I wonder how it could have gone down.  The dad was in jail and the daughter was staying with people who know ASL.  I assume the show had the daughter visit her dad in jail, so who was the adult that went with her? The lawyer?  If it was, she's in a heap of trouble for turning a blind eye to her client and his daughter conspiring to commit perjury because they used ASL to communicate.  

I see what you are saying, and you're right, there is no good outcome for the daughter.  I know the wife had died, did he say he has no other relatives?  Parents?  Wife's parents?  Siblings or wife's siblings?  if so, it's sad that they really have nobody in the world.

I agree that the show did not do a good job of indicating how or when daughter was instructed to lie.  The lawyer surely would have been present when dad met with daughter in prison.  There is no expectation of privacy in the prison meeting room, whether they are separated by a glass partition or whether they are at a table in a room along with others doing the same thing. 

Wouldn't the prison have its own guard or personnel that could interpret ASL?Seems shoddy if they didn't.  And I agree that the lawyer should be in trouble if she knew what was going on and didn't say anything.

I know this show almost never follows up on any cases once they are done, but I think it would be nice to see Dixon's son again.  I was thinking maybe he was going to take the daughter into his home and help raise her. If we get to see him again, would be nice if there was a line indicating what happened to the daughter.

Nice to see him because apart from Cosgrove, we haven't really gotten any long glimpses into the home life of any of the people during the revival.  I think we saw Maroun's mom and sister (?) once.  We saw McCoy's nasty daughter ("Luke got into NYU Law School.  If you had any kind of relationship with me, you would have a relationship with him and would have known that already.")

But I think this is the first we have heard of Kate's family.  I didn't even know she is/was married.  I don't think we know anything at all about Price.  Is he married?  Kids?  What about Jalen or Riley?

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

I get that the dad is going to prison for murder 2, but shouldn't there be any consequences for him instructing his daughter to lie?  Obviously she wouldn't have just lied on her own.  Shouldn't there be consequences to the daughter for perjuring herself?  Or does she get a pass because she's a kid?

I can't remember where I read this but perjury isn't prosecuted all that often. It's hard to prove and often not worth the effort/resources.   They got the dad for the bigger crime.  The daughter's lies didn't change that. Plus, she's a scared juvenile. 

[Xeliou66]

I don’t know when the dad told the daughter to lie, he might’ve told her what to say sometime after the shooting before he was arrested, or he might’ve told her from jail - that’s why I wondered whether the lawyer knew and was complicit in suborning perjury.

As for the family members of the characters - we knew about Dixon having a deaf son from an episode last season, she used sign language with a witness and told Shaw about her son, in another episode she said she’s been divorced twice and is currently single. I liked meeting her son and how they worked him into the plot, it was nice getting more of a focus on Dixon as she’s often underused.
As for the others - 

Riley is divorced and has 2 children that live in Westchester, at the start of one episode when he arrived at the crime scene he told Shaw he was returning from his son’s basketball game there, and in another episode he mentioned his teenage daughter, and Dixon mentioned to Price that Riley and his wife split up a few years back around the time of Riley punching the higher up who was berating Dixon. 
Shaw has a brother in the military and his dad served in the military as well, other than that I don’t believe we know anything about Shaw, I would like to get a bit more insight into him in the future. 
We met Maroun’s mom once in season 22, and her sister’s murder has been mentioned a few times.   
Price we don’t know much at all about which is kind of surprising, we know he had a brother that died of a drug overdose, that was mentioned once, he’s never mentioned any family other than that, we saw him kissing a woman goodbye once at the start of the episode where he was at the subway shooting, no idea who she was though.

I like how L&O doesn’t push much personal drama on characters, and we just get brief references and an occasional glimpse into their personal lives, that’s one thing the revival has gotten right. 

[Theli11]

2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

4 hours ago, blackwing said:

Shouldn't there be consequences to the daughter for perjuring herself?  Or does she get a pass because she's a kid?

She's a kid who is going to end up in the foster system until she ages out.  I really would not call that getting a pass. 

The punishment is the crime here.. 

2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I assume the show had the daughter visit her dad in jail, so who was the adult that went with her? The lawyer?  If it was, she's in a heap of trouble for turning a blind eye to her client and his daughter conspiring to commit perjury because they used ASL to communicate.  

I actually wouldn't have minded a scene where they confront the lawyer about this, but I think the quick "deal's off the table" enter/exit was really good, and them taking it to trial. 

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

I don’t know when the dad told the daughter to lie, he might’ve told her what to say sometime after the shooting before he was arrested, or he might’ve told her from jail - that’s why I wondered whether the lawyer knew and was complicit in suborning perjury.

 

I think they could've easily offered the father, Man 1 if they didn't care about the perjury or empathized with him enough to not want to do a full blown trial. Instead they decided to screw it, and take them to trial and have him do the max for Murder 2. 

[Ohiopirate02]

8 hours ago, Theli11 said:

I actually wouldn't have minded a scene where they confront the lawyer about this, but I think the quick "deal's off the table" enter/exit was really good, and them taking it to trial. 

I would have settled for Price or the new DA telling the opposing council that they will be informing the state bar about this trial.  Because that's who needs to investigate this if the lawyer was the one who allowed the collusion to happen.  Unless we end up find out next season that Dixon's son or the people who housed the daughter were in on it.  But, I don't think the show wants to go that route.    

[Joimiaroxeu]

Another crime involving a nepo baby. Oh boy. 🙄

"Cement in time sky diamonds." Is that really a thing?

A foot chase after a potential perp inside a crowded club. Really?

After the detectives talked to Ravi Singh and the victim's father, my money was on the mother as the true perp. Oops.

Did we know before now Dixon's son was deaf?

The defense attorney was a familiar face. Alicia Silverstone Coppola is quite the Hollywood veteran.

Again with the tossing out of key evidence before the trial even begins.

Had Dixon been overly sympathetic to the perp because his daughter was deaf like her son? It seemed to me kind of unusual for a police lieutenant to get so deeply, emotionally involved in a case.

Quote

I was so sure it would turn out the daughter fired the gun. Just me, or were we supposed to wonder?

Yes, I thought that too, and it would turn out the defendant was covering for her. Risky move though.

Re Hugh Dancy's American accent, it's fine for me but the thing he does with his mouth is distracting sometimes. Maybe his wife could help him work on it, lol. She probably gave Damien Lewis some tips when they were on Homeland.

Edited May 6 by Joimiaroxeu

[Joimiaroxeu]

My favorite comment from reddit:

Quote

They just have a very set formula that isn't working.

Dead rich person main characters know/recognize
First Suspect is a non-starter.
Second Suspect is a red herring.
Third Suspect is background person from the beginning of the episode.
CHASE DA SUSPECT!!!
Arrest suspect and have evidence for a solid conviction
Evidence is thrown out, miraculously, *every single fucking time*
Maroun sympathizes with the defendant and understands why they decided *murder* was good idea.
Price says they have a strong case without the dead to rights evidence.
Witness shenanigans
Judge seems biased to the defense 90% of the time
Prosecution somehow wins given the mountain they have to scale *every single time*

This show could easily be written by AI based on the formula.

Edited May 6 by Joimiaroxeu

[dubbel zout]

14 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Alicia Silverstone

Alicia Coppola.

Suborning perjury is serious; nothing we saw indicated she had any idea the father and daughter colluded and lied.

[paigow]

Need a dirty lawyer? 1-800-Melnick

[Zaffy]

I am tired with L&O's shallow moral dilemmas that are supposed to spice each episode.
Aaaw look, they added a deaf little girl.... aaaaw even the captain had to get involved and feel so sad after she sent the  deaf little girl's dad in prison. And that rich dude that has empty apartments in NY while other poor people are homeless.. 
So many social issues, debates and dilemmas presented in such a juvenile way. Yawn.
 

Edited May 7 by Zaffy

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Zaffy said:

So many social issues, debates and dilemmas presented

I guess having so many social issues per case prevents them from having to dive deep into any of them.

[Xeliou66]

59 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I guess having so many social issues per case prevents them from having to dive deep into any of them.

L&O has always dealt with social issues and moral/ethical dilemmas - it’s just a matter of how well written it is whether it comes off as fascinating/compelling or clunky/preachy. As we’ve discussed here, the legal writing on the revival has some issues so it’s frequently not as well written as it was during the show’s original run, but I have no problem with the show taking on social issues and ethical/moral dilemmas - it’s always done that - I mean look all the way back right off the bat in season 1 - we had episodes about racial tension, police and government misconduct, anti abortion violence, assisted suicide etc. It just varies how well written the episodes are. 
IMO, the biggest issue with the revival isn’t that it deals with difficult social issues, the show has always done that, the biggest issue is that the legal writing frequently makes Price/Maroun look inept and relies too much on predictable suppressions of evidence and new discoveries that should’ve been discovered before trial

[Ohiopirate02]

11 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

L&O has always dealt with social issues and moral/ethical dilemmas - it’s just a matter of how well written it is whether it comes off as fascinating/compelling or clunky/preachy. As we’ve discussed here, the legal writing on the revival has some issues so it’s frequently not as well written as it was during the show’s original run, but I have no problem with the show taking on social issues and ethical/moral dilemmas - it’s always done that - I mean look all the way back right off the bat in season 1 - we had episodes about racial tension, police and government misconduct, anti abortion violence, assisted suicide etc. It just varies how well written the episodes are. 
IMO, the biggest issue with the revival isn’t that it deals with difficult social issues, the show has always done that, the biggest issue is that the legal writing frequently makes Price/Maroun look inept and relies too much on predictable suppressions of evidence and new discoveries that should’ve been discovered before trial

I think the problem with this season is not the social issues in the cases, but the frequency of these episodes.  The old Mothership would sprinkle these episodes into their 22 episode season and not have them air back to back to back.  It could be the lingering effects of the writers' strike and the season getting truncated, so we are not getting the drug deal gone wrong or scorned lover or Wall Street crime de jour in between them.  Those episodes were either not written at all or were considered filler and cut in the rush to salvage the season back in November.  

[blackwing]

On 5/6/2024 at 8:53 AM, dubbel zout said:

Alicia Coppola.

Suborning perjury is serious; nothing we saw indicated she had any idea the father and daughter colluded and lied.

If the collusion occurred after he was arrested, I think there's no way she wouldn't have known.  If she didn't know, then she's a shitty attorney.  Her client was in jail.  Presumably the daughter would have been brought to the jail to visit.  The attorney would have been present at this meeting.  She likely didn't understand sign language so she should have ensured that she had a translator/ASL-conversant person there to assist her.  And insisted that client and daughter not discuss until she secured this person.

I think she would only be absolved if it came out that client and daughter discussed this in advance.  Like right after the shooting.  Maybe he says to her that "if anyone ever asks you about this, this is what you will say".  However, at that point in time, he wasn't even a suspect.  The suspects were the two red herrings that the show always gives us.  He wouldn't have needed to come up with a story since at that point, he thought he was going to get away with it.

And even then, even if he had told his daughter what to say, surely he would want to reinforce it again with her after he got arrested.

To me the more interesting question is whether Dixon's son was aware of the perjury.  He and daughter had the discussion where she was afraid she was going to get in trouble for lying.  If Dixon hadn't seen this, I think Son probably would have helped cover this up.  We will probably never hear about this again, but I would hope that Dixon has some words with her son about what it seemed like he was going to do.

[shapeshifter]

2 minutes ago, blackwing said:

If the collusion occurred after he was arrested, I think there's no way she wouldn't have known.  If she didn't know, then she's a shitty attorney.  Her client was in jail.  Presumably the daughter would have been brought to the jail to visit.  The attorney would have been present at this meeting.  She likely didn't understand sign language so she should have ensured that she had a translator/ASL-conversant person there to assist her.  And insisted that client and daughter not discuss until she secured this person.

Yeah, but I'm guessing the writers didn't think it through that far, and just figured the lawyer was out of the loop because the Dad was doing the translating. 

[blackwing]

30 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Yeah, but I'm guessing the writers didn't think it through that far, and just figured the lawyer was out of the loop because the Dad was doing the translating. 

True, I agree that this is shitty writing.  But doesn't the attorney have a duty to the courts and to the law to ensure that things are being done properly?  It's no different than if an accused client is in jail and has a meeting with his wife.  They speak French.  Attorney doesn't speak French.  If wife gets up on witness stand and had been instructed by client in French to lie on the stand, then that's on the attorney.  Attorney would have told her client to speak in English or would have gotten an independent translator.