S23.E08: Facade

[Xeliou66]

Here’s the thread for episode 8 airing tonight 

[TakomaSnark]

So far it seems like Tony Goldwyn is ending up in the same boat as Camryn Manheim - they should be a perfect fit and are doing their part to elevate crappy writing but in the end, the writing is just really, really dreadful.

And the decline in guest turns is severe. We'll never see the likes of a Joe Seneca ('Profile'), Paul Benjamin ('Identity') or Ty Burrell (thinking specifically of his appearance as the husband in 'Turnstile Justice' more than the John Muhammad stand-in in 'Sheltered') again it seems, a performer who shows up in what could have been a throwaway role as a victim/perpetrator/family member and steals the who dang show with how they run with the material. The acting tonight - particularly the white nationalist and the surprise eyewitness - was beyond wooden.

Edited March 22 by TakomaSnark

[preeya]

Since when is a witness in a murder trial allowed to spout out what could be construed as a closing argument and the prosecuting attorney does nothing to stop it?

Edited March 22 by preeya

[buttersister]

Tony Goldwyn is a good actor, but no way could he pull off telling Nolan he was a great prosecutor. 😂

New writers, please, if I’m to continue with this. Ripped from the headlines has become cobbled mess of George Floyd, racists insurrectionists, and Karen tears getting an innocent black man in trouble with a side of gay. Plus an undercover cop!

[Xeliou66]

Interesting case, and there were some things I liked and some things I didn’t -

The main thing I dislike is how the new DA is causing so much conflict and seems too concerned with politics - I really hope the writers don’t make him like the DA on L&O: Los Angeles. I get they are trying to differentiate him from the iconic Jack McCoy but they aren’t the best job so far. Baxter should’ve subpoenaed the undercover cop - it likely would’ve resulted in a different verdict. And if he’s so concerned about the politics, he should think about how an acquittal would look for his office in this controversial case. This was my main concern when McCoy left was that they would struggle with writing a new DA, and it’s looks like that is the case, and I really don’t like how it feels like Price/Maroun are in constant conflict with Baxter. I really hope things settle in going forward, but I don’t trust these writers.

And once again Price/Maroun got caught off guard at trial by a new witness, and once again they didn’t seem to do a lot of research on the defendant. That is getting so tiresome. And yeah Price should’ve objected when the woman was basically making an argument for the defense on the witness stand. Price at first came off as too soft, and something about him and Maroun just don’t click with me. But he was right at the end that the victim in the case deserved better.

What I did like was the investigation, that part of the show is very solid, Shaw/Riley are a very good pairing and are enjoyable to watch. Also I liked that they visited the ME, something we don’t see often now, and I liked that we heard closing arguments from both the defense and prosecution. The twist that there was an undercover cop involved was a good one that I didn’t see coming. And the not guilty verdicts are so rare now that it still surprised me they lost at the end. 

This episode is pretty consistent with how the show has been - good first half and investigation and an interesting premise, but some issues in the second half, and without the stabilizing presence of Jack I’m worried that the second half is collapsing completely. I really hope they dial back the Price vs Baxter conflicts, and flesh out Baxter some more. I’m afraid the second half is now just going to be Baxter putting people on edge and Baxter/Price arguing, and that will suck massively if that’s the case. 

[Irlandesa]

20 minutes ago, buttersister said:

Tony Goldwyn is a good actor, but no way could he pull off telling Nolan he was a great prosecutor.

My thoughts exactly.  Nolan wasn't a good prosecutor at all if he couldn't get a conviction or at least a hung jury with this case in NYC.  He basically just gave up once the "surprise" witness came forward and let her ramble about things he assumed and even things she thought the defendant assumed.  If he wants to talk about what he assumed, he can get on the witness stand.

I was on Baxter's side.  The facts, as presented, pointed to murder even without the testimony of the undercover cop---and we don't even know what he knew. 

29 minutes ago, buttersister said:

an innocent black man in trouble with a side of gay.

I feel like this was even ripped from the headlines a bit.  Jarrod Carmichael is a successful comic who recently came out in his great special Rothaniel. 

 

[The Wild Sow]

Wait just a doggone minute- since Arnou was ranting about “Blood and Soil” - WHY didn’t the phone recording pick that up, so Nolan could have played it for the jury?!

Could have also recalled Rebecca and asked her to clarify that once they realized what he was saying.

[EtheltoTillie]

1 hour ago, buttersister said:

Tony Goldwyn is a good actor, but no way could he pull off telling Nolan he was a great prosecutor. 😂

New writers, please, if I’m to continue with this. Ripped from the headlines has become cobbled mess of George Floyd, racists insurrectionists, and Karen tears getting an innocent black man in trouble with a side of gay. Plus an undercover cop!

This case was ripped from the headlines in a different way. Not sure if you are aware of the subway choke defendant, also with the hero headlines. This happened last year. A white ex Marine choked a black man to death. The victim was a gay mentally ill individual. The real case is still awaiting trial. Alleged that he was saving people from a dangerous individual, but the DA brought charges. like the George Floyd case he likely held the choke too long.  It’s a very disturbing case. 

This was utterly ridiculous with how they produced the surprise witness.  Where was she all that time?   And once again they stop in the middle of a trial and spend days developing a new theory?

As usual, the investigation half was better than the trial half. 

Edited March 22 by EtheltoTillie

[TakomaSnark]

5 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

This was utterly ridiculous with how they produced the surprise witness.  Where was she all that time?   

 

Exactly. There was no excuse for them not having known about her existence early on, just from looking at the security footage from inside the subway station at who got off that train/exited that station in a window of time surrounding the victim's death.

I mean, we know they looked at security footage because that's how they found their first suspect! 

These writers are a disgrace.

[mommalib]

This might be the first time that I have ever kinda liked Nolan and he was right that man deserved better. It's weird because at first I was in agreement with Baxter but by the end he came across as somebody who doesn't stand on anything. The outcome doesn't surprise me because just like in the real world a Black life doesn't mean a damn thing. 

[Raja]

7 hours ago, The Wild Sow said:

Could have also recalled Rebecca and asked her to clarify that once they realized what he was saying.

I don't think so, if the police found her and prompted her then we would have had the scene of the judge throwing it out. Having Mr. Price do it on the stand would have just been the same on the objection. How he got away with the continued saying that she said dirt but she meant soil like modern Nazis say was a bit of a stretch.

They at least gave the line about all the cameras not working and she just found the hole in the system by chance. But then anyone even a Nazi girlfriend dancer could get up in court to testi-lie

7 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

My thoughts exactly.  Nolan wasn't a good prosecutor at all if he couldn't get a conviction or at least a hung jury with this case in NYC.  He basically just gave up once the "surprise" witness came forward and let her ramble about things he assumed and even things she thought the defendant assumed.  If he wants to talk about what he assumed, he can get on the witness stand.

I was on Baxter's side.  The facts, as presented, pointed to murder even without the testimony of the undercover cop---and we don't even know what he knew.

 Does the DA speak for the victim, or the people of state? Ultimately with Christopher Meloni/Detective Stabler aging out and Organized Crime on the bubble the fancy office set makes me I wonder if we were looking at a small backdoor of Law & Order: Counterterrorism with

[Zaffy]

The case was interesting, but the writing is not good.
So much stupidity like, among other things already mentioned here, a cop admitting his role in the place he is supposed to do undercover work. He should either meet the DA outside the Gym or talk to his superiors to contact the DA.
I expect from L&O to be more realistic than the usual crime/court drama series and not treating us a idiots who only care about the "message of the episode".

[marc20]

new, hi!

 

 

Edited March 22 by marc20
not sure of fact

[dubbel zout]

11 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I was on Baxter's side.  The facts, as presented, pointed to murder even without the testimony of the undercover cop---and we don't even know what he knew.

Me too. It seemed like all the undercover cop could verify was that the defendant was a part of a white supremacist group. That would give the murder a racist slant, but it was the extended choke hold that killed the victim. 

I thought the order side was stronger this week, but the writers still have work to do to clean things up. The dumb "surprises" have got to go.

No foot chase! I'm surprised the witness wasn't charged with assaulting a police officer. He really smacked Shaw and Riley.

[Sake614]

I didn’t understand.Nolan questioning the girl about the signs of an asthma attack. How in the world would she know that the victim was suffering one? Is she a doctor? Does she have any medical training? She’d just been intimidated by a bunch of other men and changed cars on the subway. Then she immediately has ANOTHER guy grunting and promptly falling on her (or so it seemed from the brief shot we got). I’d have freaked too! And I’d have been eternally grateful for anyone who intervened on my behalf. Might she have been a racist as well? Sure it’s possible. I don’t know why the DA didn’t ask for a continuance to get some more information about her. She was a surprise witness even though the cops/DA should have looked harder to find her. Were e there no working cameras at the 59th st station where she got on? I know that’s a real issue in the nyc subways. 
 

I do question her not going to the police or even a token booth clerk if there was one, to report a fight on the train that just left the station. 
 

agree with others re: the comment about Nolan being a ‘great prosecutor.’ The writers are trolling us right? 🤣

[buttersister]

Quote

testi-lie

LOL, new to me, thanks.

[dubbel zout]

40 minutes ago, Sake614 said:

I didn’t understand.Nolan questioning the girl about the signs of an asthma attack. How in the world would she know that the victim was suffering one? Is she a doctor? Does she have any medical training?

I know! And he spent a lot of time, relatively speaking, on that. Why didn't the defense object? That would be an easy sustain.

42 minutes ago, Sake614 said:

I do question her not going to the police or even a token booth clerk if there was one, to report a fight on the train that just left the station.

She could have called 911 when she got up to the street if she didn't feel safe in the station. Or even once she got home. 

[Sake614]

This is why I don’t like the new format. Before, someone would just stumble across a dead body and the police would have to make a case. Now they’re showing us a brief clip of an interaction and then throwing in that this other guy presumably saved as young woman from being attacked. That he attacked the guy isn’t in question. There’s video presumably showing it happened. And the defense didn’t object at all. Only stated that it was in defense of someone else. Why didn’t Price at least say he reserved the right to recall the witness and then delve into her background during recess? Was there a connection between her and the defendant? Did she post anything on social media about the incident or expressing her views about Blacks? 

They’re just making the DA’s office look completely incompetent 

[Xeliou66]

19 minutes ago, Sake614 said:

This is why I don’t like the new format. Before, someone would just stumble across a dead body and the police would have to make a case. Now they’re showing us a brief clip of an interaction and then throwing in that this other guy presumably saved as young woman from being attacked. That he attacked the guy isn’t in question. There’s video presumably showing it happened. And the defense didn’t object at all. Only stated that it was in defense of someone else. Why didn’t Price at least say he reserved the right to recall the witness and then delve into her background during recess? Was there a connection between her and the defendant? Did she post anything on social media about the incident or expressing her views about Blacks? 

They’re just making the DA’s office look completely incompetent 

Agreed that the DAs frequently look incompetent or get caught by surprise by something, all in an effort to create drama in the second half. I wish that would stop, because Price/Maroun getting caught off guard happens way too often. And without the stabilizing presence of Jack as DA adding to the legal side, I’m afraid it’s collapsing completely - I’m already sick of the Baxter vs Price disagreements and Baxter putting everyone on edge. Baxter could be interesting but they seem to just be using him to create interpersonal drama and conflict which isn’t good - keep the drama related to the cases, we don’t need the DA disagreeing with his staff every week. It’s not unusual for a new character to cause conflict at the start, so hopefully Baxter settles in soon and they dial this back, but I don’t trust these writers to do a good job.  
And yeah I wish they would go back to openings of ordinary people finding a body, I really miss that. 

[Theli11]

Not sure if I agree with everyone here, I thought this episode was fine on both halves. The Undercover Cop reveal was a really good twist. I think the scene at Counterterrorism could've used Dixon in it (like cmon guys), but all in all I liked it. I'm actually surprised there was no vigilante justice here, or even protests on the courthouse steps. Nolan showed heart this episode but I'm really starting to like Baxter. The legal half was better imo, but I thought this episode was good. 

I also don't seem to have an issue with the opening? It was a discovery of a body like normal, just a different circumstance. 

[The Wild Sow]

6 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Me too. It seemed like all the undercover cop could verify was that the defendant was a part of a white supremacist group. That would give the murder a racist slant, but it was the extended choke hold that killed the victim. 

Goes to motive though! As does the “blood and soil” bit (and why did that not get recorded by the phone??!) 

Not, brave hero saves woman, but White supremacist asshole finds  excuse to murder a Black person.

[blackwing]

I agree with the comments upthread that it's ridiculous that the "surprise witness" was allowed.  Price rightfully objected to the witness not being on the list.  Defence attorney says "we just found out about her and she just came forward".  And???  Why was she allowed to testify right then and there.  At the very least, Price should have asked for a day or two of continuance. 

I thought that generally you have to tell the other side who the witness is, why they are relevant to the case, and what they are generally going to say.  Price should have been given the opportunity to prepare his questions.  Defence attorney researched deceased's boyfriend and brought up his record in court.  Price should have been able to research the witness and find out that she made two previous false claims against black men, or whatever was in her record.

Why didn't Price stress more that the defendant choked the guy for three minutes, and that the dead guy was heard to be saying "I can't breathe"?  Why didn't he press the witness more about the gun she thought he had?  I'm almost certain it was an inhaler.  Why didn't the police find the inhaler and why wasn't it entered into evidence.

Why didn't he ask her if she knows anyone with asthma?  Or witnessed someone suffering from an asthma attack?  Did he look malicious, or did he look like someone who couldn't breathe?  

I hope that this business with Kovac is going to be an underlying story through a multi-episode arc, otherwise it just seems like a waste of time to have written into the show.  

 

[paigow]

During the Stone/Robinette era, Cynthia Nixon was a dancer who shot several Black youths on the subway because she felt threatened. Luckily for her, one of the deceased turned out to be a relatively notorious / violent felon. Although she had no way of knowing that. Seeing the cold open, I thought this was being recycled... but the Homicide: Life On The Street cross-over Nazi plot was recycled instead.

[Sake614]

Also, why didn’t Price bring up the boyfriend’s assault record? Preempt the defense by letting the witness explain the context. Instead, he let the defense bring it up and change the narrative. Did Pride think the defense attorney didn’t know or wouldn’t mention it?

why didn’t the girl come forward when she saw the headlines? She could’ve gone to the police and still said that the defendant was protecting her. 

just way too many holes that weren’t even patched, never mind filled.

[Theli11]

11 minutes ago, Sake614 said:

just way too many holes that weren’t even patched, never mind filled.

I think this episode would've benefitted from more police work being done or the police side being seen. 
The detectives should've found that girl themselves as soon as it was brought up, Dixon should've been with Baxter in the meeting. The detectives should've actually found out that the man was an undercover cop. it's little things like that that made L&O feel fuller and more investigative. By the end it should feel like all the pieces are coming together. 

 

[shapeshifter]

I hate to suggest this, but since nobody from the show is listening:
Most of these episodes should be 2 or 3-parters.

Edited March 23 by shapeshifter

[paigow]

45 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I hate to suggest this, but since nobody from the show is listening:
Most of these episodes should be 2 or 3-parters.

More cross-over with One Chicago...

Guy wakes up in Chicago ICU... walks out...gets to NYC...starts a fire that kills some homeless people, Severide flies in to confirm that it was actually arson because NYFD is on strike... Voight recognizes the guy from the pre-trial press conference photos and tries to kidnap him but gets punched out by Shaw... Shaw ends up on trial for attempted murder...

[edhopper]

If Nolan is such a good prosecutor,  why can I,  a non lawyer,, think of questions he should have ask and witnesses he should have call? 

[Chyromaniac]

I don’t get how it took until the end of the show for the DA’s to put the pieces together.  The victim was a gay black man.  His partner described having a confrontation with Arnou as he exited the train.  The police only tracked Arnou down, because he was a member of the mma combat course run by a guy with a WP tat.  And the DA’s couldn’t find any evidence that he’s a racist?  He only spends multiple hours a week associating with an obvious white supremacist.  And how about the other half dozen dudes in that group?  Any of them have ties to radical groups or espouse racist ideology?  Did anyone in Arnou’s personal life (the ex-wife maybe?) notice any idealogical changes lately?  It shouldn’t have taken an undercover agent holding their hand to prove that Arnou was a racist- let alone needing that agent to actually testify.

Also- so Ellis’ partner wouldn’t have left him in the middle of a full blown asthma attack, right?  So what happened between when he got off the train, and when Ellis stumbled into dancer girl?  Ya don’t think Arnou could’ve said something to agitate him that set off his flare up, do ya?

One other thing- I think when the defense attorney says he “prays there’s someone like Arnou” on the train with him, that’s an open invitation for Price to put the jurors- particularly the minority jurors- in Ellis’ shoes.  Because really- if you’re on that train, is this really the guy you want to decide if you’re a threat?  Or your son, husband, or brother?  That’s the question they needed to be asked- are you okay with him making that decision about you?

I dunno- overall I agree with Price at the end that Ellis deserved better.  But he deserved better from the writers.  It feels like they went out of their way to make this case a loser- not because they actually wanted to say something about the dangers of vigilantism or white nationalism, or even just assumptions about what makes someone appear threatening.  Instead it’s some vague debate about the “greater good” that’s more about the personality conflict between Price and Baxter than anything else.  And really- after only two weeks, it honestly feels like Price is just expecting to get fired.  If that’s where this is going, I wish they would just get it over with, because it’s just dragging the show down more than it already has been.

[txhorns79]

On 3/21/2024 at 11:00 PM, Xeliou66 said:

And once again Price/Maroun got caught off guard at trial by a new witness, and once again they didn’t seem to do a lot of research on the defendant. That is getting so tiresome. And yeah Price should’ve objected when the woman was basically making an argument for the defense on the witness stand. Price at first came off as too soft, and something about him and Maroun just don’t click with me. But he was right at the end that the victim in the case deserved better.

The whole thing was very low energy.  I couldn't believe the Judge allowed Price to ask the woman questions about whether what she saw on the train was an asthma attack (how would she know?) or allowing the defense to claim the gym owner was an "expert in self defense."

22 hours ago, Chyromaniac said:

And really- after only two weeks, it honestly feels like Price is just expecting to get fired.

It feels like he's kind of given up. 

[Xeliou66]

14 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

The whole thing was very low energy.  I couldn't believe the Judge allowed Price to ask the woman questions about whether what she saw on the train was an asthma attack (how would she know?) or allowing the defense to claim the gym owner was an "expert in self defense."

It feels like he's kind of given up. 

Low energy perfectly describes Price/Maroun most of the time. They just lack a spark in most of their scenes. Sometimes I like Price but a lot of times he’s just soft, while Maroun is really just kind of there and doesn’t provoke a reaction from me. Jack McCoy carried the legal side, even in his reduced role he provided a stabilizing, strong presence, and he is sorely missed now. The writers don’t seem to know how to use Baxter other than to have him in conflict with Price, and that’s gotten old already after 2 episodes. I’m trying to be patient with Baxter because frequently new characters cause tension, so hopefully things will settle down with him, but I have no confidence in the writers to do a good job with Baxter. I really hope there’s more to the second half of episodes than Baxter/Price disagreements/tension. 

[paigow]

Briscoe & Green hated each other initially, until they bonded over each of them being a problem gambler....

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

I’m trying to be patient with Baxter because frequently new characters cause tension, so hopefully things will settle down with him

[Sake614]

Logan hated Briscoe in the beginning 

Briscoe hated Curtis until he didn’t. 

[Theli11]

16 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Low energy perfectly describes Price/Maroun most of the time. They just lack a spark in most of their scenes. Sometimes I like Price but a lot of times he’s just soft, while Maroun is really just kind of there and doesn’t provoke a reaction from me. Jack McCoy carried the legal side, even in his reduced role he provided a stabilizing, strong presence, and he is sorely missed now. The writers don’t seem to know how to use Baxter other than to have him in conflict with Price, and that’s gotten old already after 2 episodes. I’m trying to be patient with Baxter because frequently new characters cause tension, so hopefully things will settle down with him, but I have no confidence in the writers to do a good job with Baxter. I really hope there’s more to the second half of episodes than Baxter/Price disagreements/tension. 

Agreed. No duo should ever remind me to horrors that was Borgia/McCoy or Kincaid/Stone.

[paigow]

15 hours ago, Sake614 said:

Logan hated Briscoe in the beginning 

was a dick to ... because Phil chose retirement over him 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Again with the jiggly camera work. What's that all about? This show isn't supposed to be a mock documentary.

Meh, I could've done without them name-dropping Chappelle.

The victim's boyfriend had a very nice apartment by NYC standards. Wonder what he did for a living?

At least Arnou didn't run when Riley and Shaw went to question him. Sounded like he already had his story prepared and therefore wasn't worried.

I'm having a hard time seeing Baxter without thinking, "Didn't you used to be POTUS?" 😉

[paigow]

2 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I'm having a hard time seeing Baxter without thinking, "Didn't you used to be  ____________ POTUS?" 😉

sleazy

[Xeliou66]

5 hours ago, paigow said:

was a dick to ... because Phil chose retirement over him 

To be fair, Lennie was kind of different in his first episode, he was surlier and more prickly, and he made the weird racial comment about Irish people killing for money while Mexicans and Italians kill for love, that was very OOC for Lennie. I think they were trying to play up tensions between him and Logan, fortunately that was only like that in Lennie’s first episode and him and Mike quickly settled in to a nice dynamic. 
They also really played up the differences between Briscoe/Curtis early on which was kind of irritating, even though I did laugh when Lennie was asking if his life was the topic of conversation at Rey’s dinner table when Rey mentioned his young daughter felt bad for Lennie because he didn’t have anyone to tuck him in at night, that was pretty funny to me. 
I wouldn’t say Briscoe/Green ever disliked each other, other than the episode Marathon where they were very frustrated with each other over the case, other than that Briscoe/Green got along well from the start, even if they did have Green be a bit more aggressive at the start than he later became.

So it’s not uncommon for there to be tension between characters when a new character joins before things settle in, which is why I’m not overly concerned about Baxter, but I don’t have a lot of confidence in the writers to pull off legal stuff well so that’s kind of worrisome. I just hope they make the legal parts more interesting than just Baxter/Price disagreements, that’s already gotten old.

[Chyromaniac]

4 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I'm having a hard time seeing Baxter without thinking, "Didn't you used to be POTUS?"

I don't have a go-to role for Tony Goldwyn - but as someone who follows Disney Theme Park news, I think he looks a lot like Bob Iger.

Personally, my problem with Baxter is I just don't know what to make of him as a character.  I think with pretty much every cast change, we've had a decent idea of their background and viewpoint within an episode or two.  Nora was a law professor and took an academic approach to cases.  Arthur was a big time lawyer who ran on a public safety platform.

This guy?  We know he was appointed by the Governor.  He told the detectives he wants a more transparent relationship with police, and he's redecorating the office because it looked too... lawyer-y?  Beyond that, he fired some of his employees, and makes a lot of passive aggressive remarks to the one guy we see.  But... is he even a lawyer?  If anything he comes across as a finance guy (again, I see Iger) who doesn't really understand the business he bought position he's been appointed to - but he's trying to maximize profits convictions to make a good impression on the shareholders voters.  Jack's exit episode suggested that he was retiring so the Governor could put someone in place who would put justice before politics - but that doesn't really seem to be the case.  If this is the guy the Governor chose, it feels like it really cheapens the sacrifice Jack was trying to make.

[paigow]

12 minutes ago, Chyromaniac said:

If this is the guy the Governor chose...

Gov. Draco Malfoy Baxter?

[Theli11]

I'm gonna wait until the season ends give verdict (maybe a little into next season) on Baxter. But he's definitely going into the like column for now. I just won't be able to stand seeing Nolan harping over Baxter's opinion and instruction for another episode while Samantha.. Maroun's about.. 

[shapeshifter]

Tony Goldwyn's (Baxter) interview on Fallon last week is pretty amusing, but I also wondered if he was hinting that he prefers directing to acting, so maybe he'll just be a one-season transition character following Sam Waterston/Jack McCoy?
https://youtu.be/lP2XDcjI0WE?si=g0aSFbTS5SUUGC6I

 

[Xeliou66]

17 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Tony Goldwyn's (Baxter) interview on Fallon last week is pretty amusing, but I also wondered if he was hinting that he prefers directing to acting, so maybe he'll just be a one-season transition character following Sam Waterston/Jack McCoy?
https://youtu.be/lP2XDcjI0WE?si=g0aSFbTS5SUUGC6I

 

I think Baxter is here to stay for now, I doubt he’ll just be in a few episodes, don’t see what the point of that would be - so I’m sure Goldwyn/Baxter will be back next year, after that who knows. 

[paigow]

When is the DA election? Is Price only getting slam dunk cases while everything else gets punted to Brooklyn? [because Manhattan is understaffed due to mass firings]

[KeithJ]

General question about New York subways since I don’t live in New York.  At the beginning of the episode the girl walked onto a completely empty subway platform except for the one homeless guy.  Are there really that many subway platforms late at night that are completely empty?

[paigow]

2 hours ago, KeithJ said:

Are there really that many subway platforms late at night that are completely empty?

Yes. Only within 27th Precinct boundaries... 

[KittyQ]

I thought Nolan was out of line to suggest that the witness should have recognized that the man was having an asthma attack. Why would you expect that everyone would know what was going on? How many people have actually seen someone having an asthma attack other than on television? Additionally, attacks vary in appearance. I haven't had an attack in years thanks to medical management, but for me, I would have found it hard to walk any distance or speak, since my whole concentration was on breathing. Even so, people would have to ask if something was wrong, not understand immediately what was happening. 

Anyway, both lawyers seemed ok assuming that witnesses knew things that they realistically had no way of knowing and assuming things that were subjective. I particularly thought that the witness stating that the defendant said something in a "racist tone" was odd. What is that? Is it something everyone would recognize? There are any number of "tones" that could be confused by different people depending on who was talking - "angry", "obnoxious", "aggressive", "sneering" for example. 

I don't know if it is possible, but I wondered if the prosecution could have offered a plea for manslaughter, as Nolan originally wanted; at least that would have gotten the defendant into jail instead of being acquitted. At least that way there would be some kind of "win" without exposing the undercover operation.

[Raja]

It is like, or I hope that the 2 seconds needed for an attorney to plead just "your honor" is spent elsewhere 

[Theli11]

18 hours ago, KeithJ said:

General question about New York subways since I don’t live in New York.  At the beginning of the episode the girl walked onto a completely empty subway platform except for the one homeless guy.  Are there really that many subway platforms late at night that are completely empty?

59th St, probably not (the station isn’t the real 59th St - Columbus Circle, it looks like the abandoned Canal St or Bowery Stations on the J line.). I forgot what time the start of the episode is but if it’s late enough it’s likely you can be the only person there in the station besides a couple of the homeless. I just don’t think 59th (which is a really busy station due to its transfer to another line) , or even any station along Central Park West would be empty unless it’s 3-5am. 

[Sake614]

On 3/25/2024 at 11:02 PM, KeithJ said:

Are there really that many subway platforms late at night that are completely empty?

There are some, sure. But unless it was the middle of the night, the 59th St station is going to be crowded. And the A or C trains are going to be equally busy. that’s also why people generally stay upstairs by the token booth until the train arrives. And it’s unlikely that the train would be completely empty like that. Personally if I’m riding the subway at night, I make sure to sit in the conductor’s car.