S28:E05: Week 5

[Katie111]

13 hours ago, dizzyd said:

These cocktail parties go on for a few hours so why can’t 10 women get 15 minutes?

This is what always totally confuses me too.  They seem to only talk for about 5 minutes and maybe a few minutes of make-out.  I know they have to meet with producers as well to do their talking heads but why can't everyone get time?

Maria's story about her mom confused me.  Did her mom leave them after the accident or later on?  Or was she around but somehow permanently disabled from the accident?  Maybe I missed part of it.

I really like Joey but he does the same thing all bachelors do when the hear a sob story.  They tell the person "its okay" and "I'm here for you" but they never actually show much interest by asking follow-up questions.  He wipes away their tears and then they usually make out.  And then the girl gushes to production about how hard that was and how Joey is so kind and understanding.  

I did actually hear Joey ask Kelsey what she does for fun in New Orleans.  It was one of the only normal questions I've heard on a date.  I think that's why I like Maria.  On her first night, she asked him if he likes scary movies.  A normal introductory type question rather than just "I'm so happy you're the bachelor, otherwise I wouldn't be here" gush, gush, gush.  I think he likes that she's blunt and she challenges him and actually tries to get to know him.  

[Alexander Pope]

1 hour ago, MissPriss said:

No drama = no show. When bachelors or ‘ettes go on this show they must realize that along with all the perks comes the constant manipulation. Some are savvy enough to negotiate the drama but many are not. The desire to be on camera robs those of their dignity. 

When someone chooses to go on a second season they are more familiar with the manufacturing. This is where Joey excels (so far). It’s early and I know fatigue sets in and it becomes more difficult to avoid the land mines. But at this stage I can say Joey is the smoothest bachelor I can recall. 

Regarding Maria, who has definitely been thrown under the bus, I understand her more since learning she’s been raised and mostly influenced by men. She definitely lacks the finesse that is instilled by female nurturing. That’s not her fault but she certainly rattles the cages of “ladies” who are not so blunt. I admire confidence but there’s a more subtle way to show it that’s not so off-putting. A feminine skill she’s missing. She’s not my cup of tea but I sympathize with her.

 

I agree with your take on Maria and would also add that "ladies" do not talk with their hands.  By which I mean that I recognize her as a fellow ethnic NYer who would be similarly out of place in a group of sorority girls.

Edited February 14 by Alexander Pope

[Katie111]

What is Joeys sob story?  Did he have one on Charity's season?

[Alexander Pope]

50 minutes ago, Katie111 said:

What is Joeys sob story?  Did he have one on Charity's season?

I remember he had a very mean uncle! but that's about it!

[b2H]

15 hours ago, Meowwww said:

The drama.  My god. If you need time with him, take it in your hands and interrupt, don’t wait for the bachelor fairy to magically clear the room and grant you time with him. Have they never watched the show?  
 

 

I was shouting that at the screen last night so often that the cat got annoyed with me.

[JenLily]

2 hours ago, Katie111 said:

16 hours ago, dizzyd said:

These cocktail parties go on for a few hours so why can’t 10 women get 15 minutes?

This is what always totally confuses me too.  They seem to only talk for about 5 minutes and maybe a few minutes of make-out.  I know they have to meet with producers as well to do their talking heads but why can't everyone get time?

When Jess confronted Maria, Mr. Lily clocked that she said, "It's a little early for you to be stealing time when you have a rose," which he interpreted to mean that we were seeing a little bit of editing trickery and it was actually earlier in the evening than the show was implying. Which means that, yes, Jess wasted time being a bitch instead of just pulling Joey aside herself.

And speaking of bitches, ugh, Lea. She's revealing herself to be a truly awful person. The way she spoke to Madina about having "higher standards" made me want to slap her. I'm glad Madina chose not to entertain her nonsense and just walked away. She didn't deserve to be talked down to that way. Lea's behavior now casts her choice to throw away her "steal a date" card in a far more negative light. I'd thought she was truly uncomfortable with being able to do something like that and now I believe it was merely a tactic to manipulate Joey into viewing her a certain way. She's icky.

I really like Lexi and Daisy. They just seem very sweet and actually into getting to know Joey instead of hoping for Paradise. I hope I keep liking them.

[DEL901]

I’ll be very happy if Maria outlasts Lea and her fellow mean girl Jess.  I want to see their heads explode.   And I’d live to see their social media feeds.   I’ll bet they and Sydney are getting hammered.   

Maria, love or hate her, generally focused on Joey and how their relationship is progressing, rather than if she thinks another woman is getting more time than she is.  

[MissPriss]

5 hours ago, phlebas said:

I get wanting to defend yourself on camera, but her argument style is a little like an internet forum made flesh.

This analogy (about Maria) should win an award. Spot on!

[Ivana Tinkle]

20 hours ago, rlc said:

I think you misspelled c**t.

This legit made me snort laugh. Brilliant.

Lea sucks, although I side eye the fact that there's always a new villain waiting in the wings to assume the position of the predecessor. Definitely seems producer driven.

 

 

[tennisgurl]

It sucks that we are left with so many annoying mean girls like Lea but we lose much nicer women left and right. I don't really blame Joey, he really doesn't seem to be too aware of the details of the ongoing drama, but its still frustrating. He can only not know for so long and Joey doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would appreciate high school cattiness, I can only assume this is all a Paradise audition not any actual attempt to be with Joey. 

Joey really does seem like a nice guy, he has plenty of time to show some inner tool but as of now he seems like a caring person who is also pretty funny and charismatic. He does really seem to care about every woman he talks to and makes a lot of eye contact, you can tell when a bachelor/ette is just waiting to bring a conversation back to themselves. 

He seems to really vibe with Rachel, Daisy, and Maria so far, although its sort of hard to tell who he is much attached to when we spend so much time on a few girls and their drama, its hard to get to know the other women. 

I can see why Maria would be off-putting or at least a bit "much". She has a very intense take charge sort of personality and I can see how she could rub people the wrong way, but she hasn't done anything to deserve the amount of bullying she is getting from a few girls who have just decided she's their enemy out of nowhere. The worst thing she's done is "steal" Joey for a bit at the cocktail party when she already had a rose, which is hardly anything, especially compared to the shit some of the people throwing shade have done. She really hasn't been mean to anyone that we have seen so far and has done nothing to justify this vendetta. 

Lea suddenly becoming Sydney 2.0 the second she leaves just reeks of producer manipulation. 

Edited February 14 by tennisgurl

[DEL901]

Re Lea’s transformation….i wonder if she was always like this, but editing decided to only show us one witch at a time.  

Edited February 15 by DEL901

[JenE4]

I disliked Maria since day 1 and said as much back then. However, there’s a difference between having an off-putting personality and being a bully. And that’s where the likes of Sydney and Lea are losing me with their bullying accusations and calling her the devil, etc—making me now have to defend Maria. Now, if you called her a temptress or seductress or called out her abrasiveness, okay. But it’s not “bullying” to go put on some lingerie getup during a group date—despite the audacity of it all—or to wear scraps of fabric that barely cover your body at any given time. (Where does she find so many skimpy dresses?!?) the women are intimidated by her. And people often feel intimidated by bullies. But this does not mean she is bullying them. She is just existing and this is why the existence of her in their vicinity bothers Sydney and Lea so much. They see her swanning around with confidence and being a bit loud while exuding  so much sex appeal that they feel more self-conscious in comparison just being near her. Then they try to knock her down a peg, but she’s refusing to even engage in a tit for tat. She’s just asking for facts on what she said or did. The problem is, she didn’t really “do” anything other than having an aura of superiority via an abundance of confidence and sex appeal. And it’s just intimidating to be near—despite Maria not actually trying to intimidate the rest of them. There’s nothing more to it than the audacity of her confidence that some of these girls can’t get over. Part of me wonders how much of it is an act, though. She kind of still has a bit of “ugly duckling” about her that the “swan” preening seems to be covering up for. Like, if she just dressed and acted like the rest of them, her face is a little homely. It seems like she really is over-compensating—you don’t need to dress sexy 24/7. But, again, this isn’t bullying.

Edited February 15 by JenE4

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

Joey may want to spend about a minute with Maria in the fantasy suite then let her go. 

[Artsda]

The other two obsessed with Maria seem to be the issue not Maria.  Maria's not making it about them but they're making everything about her. 

[phlebas]

Okay I'm finally caught up with this week's offering.
I don't mind multiple villains, but it's a tough ask off your audience when all the villains are all "Maria is disrespecting meeeeeee!" I assumed at first they were cutting out the truly egregious behavior from Maria which inspired all this, but that thought ended when she asked Sydney if she knew they were on camera all the time.
My best guess, and it's not a charitable one, is Lea and Jess (and maybe Sydney but she might just be a sociopath) feel Maria is not attractive, so they're threatened that Joey likes her anyway. If they can't compete on their looks, what else is there?

They understand Joeys connection with Kelsey A and Daisy, because they're both gorgeous. But they don't see it with Maria and their tiny little perspectives are all broken.

Just a guess.

[call me ishmael]

46 minutes ago, phlebas said:

Okay I'm finally caught up with this week's offering.
I don't mind multiple villains, but it's a tough ask off your audience when all the villains are all "Maria is disrespecting meeeeeee!" I assumed at first they were cutting out the truly egregious behavior from Maria which inspired all this, but that thought ended when she asked Sydney if she knew they were on camera all the time.
My best guess, and it's not a charitable one, is Lea and Jess (and maybe Sydney but she might just be a sociopath) feel Maria is not attractive, so they're threatened that Joey likes her anyway. If they can't compete on their looks, what else is there?

They understand Joeys connection with Kelsey A and Daisy, because they're both gorgeous. But they don't see it with Maria and their tiny little perspectives are all broken.

Just a guess.

You know one other thing may be that Maria is “ancient” and they can’t understand why Joey is interested.  After all, the whole thing with Syd Vicious started because Maria didn’t think that being 31 was so horrible.  If Sydney and Lea didn’t think that it was, they wouldn’t have acted as if Madina was right to worry about it.  So they can’t imagine how someone practically on the Golden Bachelorette could be attractive.

[Soobs]

Crimes against the English language go to Lea with perspectivize.

I don't think Lea or Maria are going to make it their hometowns. His connection with them isn't what it is with Daisy (they were sharing baby names!) or the woman he took on the moped date. I don't think Maria is a bully but she is a bit of a blowhard who has to share her opinion about everything. Lea seems immature. I thought it was impulsive and overly dramatic to throw the "get a solo date" card in the fire on the first night. He seems to be easygoing and probably wants someone who matches his energy and is not an opposites attract kind of guy.

 

 

[red12]

12 hours ago, JenE4 said:

I disliked Maria since day 1 and said as much back then. However, there’s a difference between having an off-putting personality and being a bully. And that’s where the likes of Sydney and Lea are losing me with their bullying accusations and calling her the devil, etc—making me now have to defend Maria. Now, if you called her a temptress or seductress or called out her abrasiveness, okay. But it’s not “bullying” to go put on some lingerie getup during a group date—despite the audacity of it all—or to wear scraps of fabric that barely cover your body at any given time. (Where does she find so many skimpy dresses?!?) the women are intimidated by her. And people often feel intimidated by bullies. But this does not mean she is bullying them. She is just existing and this is why the existence of her in their vicinity bothers Sydney and Lea so much. They see her swanning around with confidence and being a bit loud while exuding  so much sex appeal that they feel more self-conscious in comparison just being near her. Then they try to knock her down a peg, but she’s refusing to even engage in a tit for tat. She’s just asking for facts on what she said or did. The problem is, she didn’t really “do” anything other than having an aura of superiority via an abundance of confidence and sex appeal. And it’s just intimidating to be near—despite Maria not actually trying to intimidate the rest of them. There’s nothing more to it than the audacity of her confidence that some of these girls can’t get over. Part of me wonders how much of it is an act, though. She kind of still has a bit of “ugly duckling” about her that the “swan” preening seems to be covering up for. Like, if she just dressed and acted like the rest of them, her face is a little homely. It seems like she really is over-compensating—you don’t need to dress sexy 24/7. But, again, this isn’t bullying.

I also believe someone like Sydney has gotten by on signifying American pretty (blond, thin, angular Euro facial features) without actually having to back it up or develop anything else. So, she doesn't have much to "fight" with if that doesn't wow or intimate others sufficiently. At that point, victimhood and feigning a need for protection are what's left.

Lea, is just too young. I can't get a good read on her yet outside of immaturity trying to mix in and find her group. It's like she skipped a couple of grades in high school and is trying to seem more mature.

[phlebas]

11 hours ago, Soobs said:

I don't think Lea or Maria are going to make it their hometowns.

Definitely not Lea. 

I can see it with Maria, simply because I don't know who would keep her from it. I'm assuming Daisy and Kelsey A are both locks, but there is maybe a four-way race for the other two spots:  Maria, Lexi, Rachel, and Jenn?

I don't see him losing Maria and keeping Lea, Jess, Katelyn, or Kelsey T.

ETA: I don't see Maria in the final two.  Joey seems to like her well enough, but he is in awe of Daisy and Kelsey. (I'm kind of in awe of Kelsey myself.)

Edited February 15 by phlebas

[rlc]

18 hours ago, phlebas said:

My best guess, and it's not a charitable one, is Lea and Jess (and maybe Sydney but she might just be a sociopath) feel Maria is not attractive, so they're threatened that Joey likes her anyway. If they can't compete on their looks, what else is there?

They understand Joeys connection with Kelsey A and Daisy, because they're both gorgeous. But they don't see it with Maria and their tiny little perspectives are all broken.

Just a guess.

Um- I guess that might be true, but they would be seeing things waaaaaay differently than in my home. Maria is gorgeous, and since night one we were surprised that Joey kissed 'the homely one' (Jess). 

[Alexander Pope]

4 hours ago, rlc said:

Um- I guess that might be true, but they would be seeing things waaaaaay differently than in my home. Maria is gorgeous, and since night one we were surprised that Joey kissed 'the homely one' (Jess). 

Maria is not just gorgeous but sexy, and the latter is the problem.  Jess is the odd one out and is definitely not in the same league as the others.

[phlebas]

5 hours ago, rlc said:

Um- I guess that might be true, but they would be seeing things waaaaaay differently than in my home. Maria is gorgeous, and since night one we were surprised that Joey kissed 'the homely one' (Jess). 

I think Maria is gorgeous too. And maybe I'm wrong or overly simplistic about how these other women see her, but it does seem like they look at her as "other." "Why is she still here?" etc.

I may have been allowing my lack of regard for Sydney/Jess/Lea to make me assume they don't look beyond the surface.  

[Alexander Pope]

10 minutes ago, phlebas said:

I think Maria is gorgeous too. And maybe I'm wrong or overly simplistic about how these other women see her, but it does seem like they look at her as "other." "Why is she still here?" etc.

I may have been allowing my lack of regard for Sydney/Jess/Lea to make me assume they don't look beyond the surface.  

No, I think we are all on the same page.  Maria is gorgeous but different and these mean girls, none of whom are sexy in the slightest, don't like it.  We see it, they can't/won't.

[Hip-to-be-Square]

On 2/13/2024 at 5:37 PM, Riplet68 said:

Can we please have some contestants who don’t have sob stories?  Every date he’s been on has had some big reveal or tears

Right?! It's so unnecessary.  Can Joey at least have a couple bites of ravioli before these girls unleash their sob stories? It's too much too soon.  I had a guy trauma dump on me on a first date and I felt like saying, "I'm just trying to eat my dessert crepe, Kevin!" 😬😅

[Hip-to-be-Square]

On 2/13/2024 at 6:37 PM, JenE4 said:

I’m not sold on Rachel. Not only is her sob story “I’m a nurse,” but they didn’t talk at a while dancing (understandable). But then at dinner besides the nurse stuff they both just said she’s “a slow burn” like a dozen times. This basically means I’m quiet and boring, but I’m going to lead you to believe I’m mysterious and someday you’ll hear all my alluring secrets. I’m not falling for this. Rachel being a “slow burn” is the new Maria is a “bully”—all talk with no evidence to back it up. I’m not being gaslit into believing someday I’ll find Rachel interesting.

Yes 🙌💯!! The slow burn is a ploy to make her "not like the other girls" 😏 - I hate it when people intentionally try to be mysterious or alluring on this show, like that guy in a mask on Ashley Herbert's season!  A "Slow burn" aloof girl loses all credibility when she loses her shit and gets all excited over how she's always wanted to go to Spain with a boyfriend someday on a romantic vacation.  She's trying to be mysterious and I'm not falling for it.  

Edited February 16 by Hip-to-be-Square

[red12]

I assume some of these ladies have not competed much. Yes, (according to what production provides) Maria is in there having extra private time with Joey. How does sitting around complaining about it and calling it "disrespectful" solve it? 1) it's not her job to manage your joey time 2) joey is in there making out with her not ordering her to leave so her can spend more time with u.

If it's so important to you go get your man. If you want to feel disrespected, she's the wrong target. Neither one of these people owe u anything so go into another room and feel your feelings then get back in the game. But for now you sound unhinged. 

[Hip-to-be-Square]

On 2/14/2024 at 9:56 AM, Katie111 said:

What is Joeys sob story?  Did he have one on Charity's season?

Joey's story on Charity's season was that his parents divorced when he was young because his dad came out as gay.  

Edited February 16 by Hip-to-be-Square

[Sweet-tea]

On 2/15/2024 at 3:43 PM, rlc said:

Um- I guess that might be true, but they would be seeing things waaaaaay differently than in my home. Maria is gorgeous, and since night one we were surprised that Joey kissed 'the homely one' (Jess). 

I can't tell who he likes because it seems like he's kissing all of them!

I think Maria is very attractive, has a great body and is sexy. Jess isn't cute at all to me. 

Edited February 17 by Sweet-tea

[Recyclorette]

My hubs never watches these shows, but he got one look at Maria and is smitten!  He keeps asking me if Maria is still there.  As for Jess, he got a glimpse of her weeping and said that she reminds him of our annoying neighbor.  😄

[Hip-to-be-Square]

1 hour ago, Recyclorette said:

My hubs never watches these shows, but he got one look at Maria and is smitten!  He keeps asking me if Maria is still there.  As for Jess, he got a glimpse of her weeping and said that she reminds him of our annoying neighbor.  😄

Hahaha 😄 So great! I love that you typed out the hub's commentary!  I think a lot of guys would enjoy this show even more if they didn't see it just by walking by the TV- he needs to sit down on that couch and become a member of Bachelor Nation 😄🙌🌹🛋️📺! Maria definitely seems to be a crowd pleaser for the men who tune into this show 😉.  I love the Jess/annoying neighbor comparison- tell us more about the annoying neighbor!  🏘️🏚️🌳👀😅. 

Edited February 18 by Hip-to-be-Square

[Recyclorette]

3 hours ago, Hip-to-be-Square said:

Hahaha 😄 So great! I love that you typed out the hub's commentary!  I think a lot of guys would enjoy this show even more if they didn't see it just by walking by the TV- he needs to sit down on that couch and become a member of Bachelor Nation 😄🙌🌹🛋️📺! Maria definitely seems to be a crowd pleaser for the men who tune into this show 😉.  I love the Jess/annoying neighbor comparison- tell us more about the annoying neighbor!  🏘️🏚️🌳👀😅. 

Ooh, the neighbor!  Actually, she's a lovely person, just one of those over-the-top constantly upbeat and happy people who are exhausting to be around for more than 5 minutes.  She's also a former cheerleader and beauty queen, both of which are not taken seriously in our neck of the woods.  Not sure why Jess reminds us of her, but there's something!  🤣

The hubs got a kick out of your message.  Maybe your invitation to join Bachelor Nation will be more successful than mine!

[Hip-to-be-Square]

3 hours ago, Recyclorette said:

Ooh, the neighbor!  Actually, she's a lovely person, just one of those over-the-top constantly upbeat and happy people who are exhausting to be around for more than 5 minutes.  She's also a former cheerleader and beauty queen, both of which are not taken seriously in our neck of the woods.  Not sure why Jess reminds us of her, but there's something!  🤣

The hubs got a kick out of your message.  Maybe your invitation to join Bachelor Nation will be more successful than mine!

The constantly upbeat neighbor or coworker types only shine a light on my jaded nature 😅! Those neighbors are great for cookie exchanges and small talk, but I wonder if they'll ever snap one day when taking out the recycling 😄. I can be upbeat and fun, but those super cheerful people take happiness to the extreme 😉. 

I hereby welcome your hubs and all hubs to Bachelor Nation! 🙌😄🌹💯🛋️📺 Or if they don't want to join, I think you have started a great movement of typing hubs episode remarks! 

Edited February 19 by Hip-to-be-Square

[Recyclorette]

12 hours ago, Hip-to-be-Square said:

The constantly upbeat neighbor or coworker types only shine a light on my jaded nature 😅! Those neighbors are great for cookie exchanges and small talk, but I wonder if they'll ever snap one day when taking out the recycling 😄. I can be upbeat and fun, but those super cheerful people take happiness to the extreme 😉. 

I hereby welcome your hubs and all hubs to Bachelor Nation! 🙌😄🌹💯🛋️📺 Or if they don't want to join, I think you have started a great movement of typing hubs episode remarks! 

Funny that you mention taking out the recycling. 😆  Another neighbor who lives directly across the street from this woman told me that whenever her hubs sees her putting out the trash bins he says, "I'd love to take whatever she's taking!"  Maybe some day we'll figure it out.  We'll be an entire neighborhood of shiny happy people asking our trash collectors, "Will you accept this rose?" 🌹

[Hip-to-be-Square]

On 2/19/2024 at 9:18 AM, Recyclorette said:

Funny that you mention taking out the recycling. 😆  Another neighbor who lives directly across the street from this woman told me that whenever her hubs sees her putting out the trash bins he says, "I'd love to take whatever she's taking!"  Maybe some day we'll figure it out.  We'll be an entire neighborhood of shiny happy people asking our trash collectors, "Will you accept this rose?" 🌹

This former beauty queen/cheerleader shiny happy neighbor sounds like she's straight out of 1975's movie "The Stepford Wives" 👱‍♀️🍳🧹👙😅! Hahaha I want to see a trash collector getting the final rose from everyone in the neighborhood 🌹- he needs to "feel seen" and "find his person!" 😉😄🙌💯  You know what I love? When some of my neighbors are too lazy to break down big Amazon boxes or a Christmas 🎄 tree into manageable pieces and they just throw it out on the sidewalk and the trash collectors look and just drive on by 😉. 

Edited February 20 by Hip-to-be-Square

[ljenkins782]

On 2/14/2024 at 5:01 PM, DEL901 said:

I’ll be very happy if Maria outlasts Lea and her fellow mean girl Jess.  I want to see their heads explode.   And I’d live to see their social media feeds.   I’ll bet they and Sydney are getting hammered.   

Maria, love or hate her, generally focused on Joey and how their relationship is progressing, rather than if she thinks another woman is getting more time than she is.  

Yes, Sydney is telling the collective "us" we need to do better (per US magazine article) because people are being mean to her on social media. I imagine Lea and Jess picked up some heat after this week too. 

It really is stratified on an age line with the 23 year olds being so caught up in their girl code outrage and the "old" ones, Maria and Madina, being like "I don't get why this has anything to do with you, person who wasn't even there" etc. 

I loved how quickly Madina slapped Lea down for her utterly silly demand that Madina be mean to Maria because of Sydney. Like, that was the most revealing bit of immaturity I've seen since my own college days. 

I doubt Lea/Sydney/Jess are going to gain any insight into their own behavior in time for the Women Tell All, so prepare yourselves for a whole lot of Instagram cliche talk about girl code, speaking my/her truth, being better, etc.

But in terms of Sydney vs Maria, it really was comical to have Sydney sitting there thinking she was going to get a rose based on...whatever she thought. "Showing up for Joey"? It was like she thought there was a teacher's pet award on the line. There was zero connection between her and Joey and she showed herself to be invested in everything BUT Joey with her silliness, but I guarantee she doesn't see that. Meanwhile, Maria and Joey have had a clear connection from the beginning, Maria was always going to win that one.

I can't remember which episode it was in, but that trust fall thing with Madina was flat out embarrassing. She's another one who had no real connection with Joey and I think she was actually saved by the drama for a brief period because he felt bad.

The thing about the sob stories is that if it's coming from someone who is genuinely connected to the lead, it comes across as sharing, but when it's coming from obvious cannon fodder who will be going home any day, it comes across as the nail in the coffin. 

I was sorry to see Autumn go, she was the type I would have expected to gel with Joey's mellow vibe, I think she might have gotten screwed by the drama ladies sucking up all the oxygen and probably getting producer-directed roses to keep the drama going.

[phlebas]

1 hour ago, ljenkins782 said:

Maria was always going to win that one.

I would have liked to see Sydney's face when she discovered there was an opera singer on tap waiting to sing Ave Maria, and it occurred (or was explained) to her that they must have set that up days in advance.

That 2-on-1 was predetermined before the card showed up.

[DEL901]

I wish the singing had started just before Joey made his choice, or even better, as Sydney stood up so Joey could walk her out.  

[ljenkins782]

2 hours ago, DEL901 said:

I wish the singing had started just before Joey made his choice, or even better, as Sydney stood up so Joey could walk her out.  

That's some evil genius, that would've sent Sydney right over the self-righteous edge.