S05.E05: The Tiger

[Bort]

Quote

Dot creates diversions, Roy meets his match and Indira helps a new friend.

Airdate: December 12, 2023

[Spartan Girl]

I’m sorry but I just really don’t like Dot. I should be rooting for her, but gaslighting Wayne and behaving like a sociopath has put a serious dent in my sympathy. Plus her voice is every bit as annoying as Marge Simpson’s.

[AimingforYoko]

I, in no way, endorse Lorraine's superior attitude or the way she treats people in general, but that smackdown on Roy was beautiful to watch. Baby, indeed.

I almost thought Dorothy was going to give up the whole story to Olmstead, but she gave enough to get the picture. Nice touch with the Fargo theme.

 

[Starchild]

10 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

I, in no way, endorse Lorraine's superior attitude or the way she treats people in general, but that smackdown on Roy was beautiful to watch. Baby, indeed.

So good. They're both horrible, but I would really love to see her bring him low.

As it is, it looks like Dot's on her way to do it herself.

[DMK]

Echoing the Lorraine high fives. I still find her heinous but I loved that she clearly saw in Roy what she saw in those condescending bankers: misogynist prick. And as easy as it would be to hand Dot over to him and wash her hands of her, Lorraine wasn’t about to give him what he wanted and sent him packing. 

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Way too many impossible escapes, but there were some good moments.

Is the Caymus '92 vintage considered better, or worse, than the '93?  I'm guessing not as good.

I am a bit surprised that Lorraine did not understand that Roy was not shaking her down.  We saw examples of how she reads people brilliantly, but not this time.

The scenes where Gator was dealing with being other than the leader and had to take humiliating orders were delicious.  I hope there are scenes in the next ep where Roy goes berserk on Bowman and the others who brought him the wrong guy.

The final scene was sneaky profound.  Dot drives off carefully and when she reaches the end of the street, with nobody within a bunch of miles, she turned on the left turn blinker.  She has blasted through so many customs and mores of behavior, yet she chose to be a perfect citizen when there was no practical reason or need to do so.  

 

 

 

[thuganomics85]

Nice bit with having Jason Schwartzman as the narrator here, since they did something similar by having Martin Freeman narrate an episode in season two or three (can't remember which one.)  I wonder if one these folks will be narrating a future season?!

And here I thought Don Draper was problematic and held dated views towards women: Roy Tillman is just full-blown "women are men's property" kind of asshole, huh?  Complete with apparently marrying his wives at the ripe old age of... seventeen.  Yeah, Lorraine might fit right in with the Succession gang when it comes to arrogant, self-serving rich folks, but I was definitely on her side when she brought Roy down a peg or two.  Especially since he clearly did not know how to react to someone just telling him to stuff it.  Especially a woman who is definitely more powerful and connected then he his.

Even if Dot manages to take out Roy for good, I do wonder if she destined for some kind of bittersweet end with all of the rules/laws she keeps breaking and some of the damage she leaves behind: even if a lot of it is unintentional.

Olmstead needs to either have a tough talk with her husband, or end things before their debt gets even worse.

Almost felt bad for Gator when his dad clearly sidelined him.  Almost....

[possibilities]

I like the show and I liked this episode, but:

Did she actually kill the angry guy who was waiting for cancer surgery? I actually felt somewhat sympathetic to him.  Clearly he was rude and obnoxious, but at the same time, I wouldn't want to be there hungry, sick, waiting days for a delayed surgery and having no idea when it was actually going to happen. He wasn't pleasant to deal with, but murder was not exactly the punishment for his crime.

Also, I wonder how long her husband is going to be locked in the bathroom before anybody notices.

Do hospitals really put the patient's name on the door?

--

Hell yes on smacking down of misogynists. Calling Roy a BABY probably bothered him even more than having "Nadine" denied him. I did wonder why he spoke to The Little Woman instead of trying to get around her like the bankers did.

Gator having FBI intel to reframe his staying in the car as valuable after all probably didn't help Gator's ego issues, but it might have felt good anyway.

--

I think Dot actually does love her husband, and isn't just using him the way his mother thinks.

People who think this show had too many implausible escapes, I wonder if you liked "Ocean's 11," or if you watch Dark Winds, or other shows with where people have similar events? There is definitely a wild and implausible element, but I take it more as a particular genre of storytelling more than as something we are supposed to find plausible.

Edited December 13, 2023 by possibilities

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

Did she actually kill the angry guy who was waiting for cancer surgery? I actually felt somewhat sympathetic to him.  Clearly he was rude and obnoxious, but at the same time, I wouldn't want to be there hungry, sick, waiting days for a delayed surgery and having no idea when it was actually going to happen. He wasn't pleasant to deal with, but murder was not exactly the punishment for his crime.

 

No she just knocked him out and switched his name with Wayne’s so that he’d be kidnapped. But yeah, he still didn’t deserve that. And this kind of collateral damage is why I can’t really bring myself to see her as the hero of this story.

She probably does love Wayne, but so what? That doesn’t make it okay that she’s keeping secrets and gaslighting him. And I feel like there should be consequences for Dot even after she takes out Roy.

On a side note, co-sign me to loving Lorraine putting Roy in his place. She might have Dot committed, but even she has enough standards not to hand her over to her abusive ex.

[iMonrey]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

Did she actually kill the angry guy who was waiting for cancer surgery?

I think she just knocked him out. It's sort of a common TV/movie trope to suffocate someone with a pillow but in reality it would be really tough to do and mostly they would just pass out. That said, who knows what Roy's goons will do with him when they find out they've got the wrong guy.

I find it hard to believe Roy lets Gator vape.

So we know Nadine married Roy when she was 17. And haven't they said it's been eight years since she ran away? How long was she married to him before she ran off?

I fully expected Lorraine to offer to pay off Indira's debt but I guess Indira can't offer her anything she wants. I also thought maybe Nadine/Dot would offer the same in exchange for looking after Scotty, like maybe if she had some money stashed away she stole from Roy. No dice there either.

This is my favorite season and in fact the only one I've really enjoyed, and this was my favorite episode so far. And Ole Munch wasn't in it. Again - the show just doesn't need him. 

1 minute ago, Spartan Girl said:

And this kind of collateral damage is why I can’t really bring myself to see her as the hero of this story.

I don't know that we're necessarily supposed to see her as a "hero," per se. Every season has some flawed main character that's done something that needs to be covered up, like Lester Nygaard or Peggy Blumquist. The story always seems to center around some flawed, broken character that causes a lot of fallout.

[Spartan Girl]

23 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I don't know that we're necessarily supposed to see her as a "hero," per se. Every season has some flawed main character that's done something that needs to be covered up, like Lester Nygaard or Peggy Blumquist. The story always seems to center around some flawed, broken character that causes a lot of fallout.

Neither Lester nor Peggy can be just written off as “broken” or “flawed.” Lester was a petty asshole sociopath in sheep’s clothing. Peggy was delusional at best and narcissistic at worst. I couldn’t really empathize with either one of them.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[peeayebee]

14 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I am a bit surprised that Lorraine did not understand that Roy was not shaking her down.  We saw examples of how she reads people brilliantly, but not this time.

Buying people off is just her go-to.  I'm sure she thinks everybody has their price, including Roy.

 

10 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Nice bit with having Jason Schwartzman as the narrator here

Thank you! I was wondering who that was.

Quote

Complete with apparently marrying his wives at the ripe old age of... seventeen. 

And apparently abducting them at 15.

It was really hard watching Dot suffocate that patient. Yes, he was annoying, and yes, she was in desperate straits, but that was an iffy scene. I, too, wondered if she'd killed him, but I noticed the monitor screen didn't show a flatline. Dot must have gotten a bunch of ninja-like training when she was married to Roy.

Roy and Lorraine's matchup was something to see. Neither one is a nice character, but of course Lorraine is a bit better. Loved when she told him that he was fighting for his right to be a baby. So good!

I had been thinking that Scotty was actually Roy's daughter, and I'm not sure she's not. I haven't done any of the math. But if she is, I don't think he gave any sign of suspecting. Of course Dot could have been pregnant without his knowledge when she left him.

The scene with Dot and Wayne was sweet. I don't know if he has brain damage -- I think Lorraine was told this at the start of the ep -- or if it's the meds, so maybe I shouldn't think he was saying cute little things. "My foot's unconscious." "I love you three."

I thought it was a strange scene betw the security guy and Danish. I'm sure more will come of this later.

[seacliffsal]

I see Dot as more inept than a tiger.  It seems more like lucky breaks that any of her ideas pan out rather than a high level strategic plan.  The smartest thing she has done is to trust the police officer.  

I'm probably rooting for Lorraine more than anyone else.

[TakomaSnark]

4 hours ago, possibilities said:

 

Do hospitals really put the patient's name on the door?

 

Relative just got out of a physical therapy rehab center and first initial/last name was posted on the door. I can't remember prior to that if it was the same in hospital after he was admitted, though.

[aghst]

17 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I’m sorry but I just really don’t like Dot. I should be rooting for her, but gaslighting Wayne and behaving like a sociopath has put a serious dent in my sympathy. Plus her voice is every bit as annoying as Marge Simpson’s.

That seems to be one common reaction, that she's lying to her husband and daughter, maybe putting them in danger.

But the other part is that her life with Roy was so awful that she's doing whatever she can to protect them, which includes only letting them know the minimum needed for her to protect them.

Remember, there is still the missing first wife, maybe Gator's mother.

Man who looks at women as literal chattel is probably too much for Scottie to comprehend yet and even Wayne may not fully comprehend.

[DMK]

Wayne’s brain is Swiss cheese right now. I really don’t feel like Dot is gaslighting him because he doesn’t comprehend anything. He doesn’t even remember what money is. 

[peeayebee]

7 minutes ago, aghst said:

But the other part is that her life with Roy was so awful that she's doing whatever she can to protect them, which includes only letting them know the minimum needed for her to protect them.

I expect that we'll learn more about her life with Roy, and then more viewers will understand her actions.

Quote

Remember, there is still the missing first wife, maybe Gator's mother.

The first wife has to be Gator's mom, right? I assume she's dead, otherwise Roy would be looking for her, too.

 

[aghst]

17 hours ago, DMK said:

Echoing the Lorraine high fives. I still find her heinous but I loved that she clearly saw in Roy what she saw in those condescending bankers: misogynist prick. And as easy as it would be to hand Dot over to him and wash her hands of her, Lorraine wasn’t about to give him what he wanted and sent him packing. 

On the one hand, her takedown of those bankers seemed to be a feminist triumph.  She doesn't suffer fools and clearly she's earned her power and empire so she should be accorded respect by these neanderthals.

So does her claiming Dot as her own and telling Roy to get lost, on the surface.

But she is the one who had Dot committed and she told Roy that Dot is really now Wayne's property, so she really didn't take down Roy's "she's my property, like all wives are properties to their husbands" thinking that he was only too happy to throw in her face.

Instead she only commented about him being a constitutional sheriff, which wouldn't work for her empire-building since she has connections in Washington, which Roy scorns.

So really, was Lorraine "defending" Dot or marking her territory like Roy was trying to claim his property?

She may or may not pay off Indira's debt but the way she appraised her seemed pretty disdainful because she's probably used to looking at debtors as weak and somehow inherently inferior and deserving of being exploited by her debt collection company.

She did her appraisal of other characters who were in debt before in one of the earlier episodes too.  Seemed more dismissive, like "I literally own you or easily can" like the way she was dismissive of Indira and her boss the first time they came to her office in the previous episode, like they disdain the local police, which should only be helping rich and powerful, because she is also tapped into power at the national level as well.

So she's staking her privilege and rules not applying to her like others, especially those in debt.

Instead of relying on law enforcement, she will hire private security personnel, presumably why she wasn't in the least intimidated by Roy.

[DMK]

47 minutes ago, aghst said:

But she is the one who had Dot committed and she told Roy that Dot is really now Wayne's property, so she really didn't take down Roy's "she's my property, like all wives are properties to their husbands" thinking that he was only too happy to throw in her face.

Instead she only commented about him being a constitutional sheriff, which wouldn't work for her empire-building since she has connections in Washington, which Roy scorns.

So really, was Lorraine "defending" Dot or marking her territory like Roy was trying to claim his property?

I look at it as speaking to Roy in a language he’ll understand. He’s been claiming that husband’s right crap every episode. No matter that he remarried, he’s determined to make that claim. So Lorraine pointed out that Wayne has the claim more than Roy does. 

13 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Olmstead needs to either have a tough talk with her husband, or end things before their debt gets even worse.

Oh, that guy. There were people IN HIS HOUSE for hours and he didn’t even notice, he’s so self-absorbed. Which was already obvious from all the golfing gear debts he keeps running up. 

[DMK]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

So we know Nadine married Roy when she was 17. And haven't they said it's been eight years since she ran away? How long was she married to him before she ran off?

Timeline seems to be: abducted or something when she was 15, married to Roy at 17, two years later she goes out to buy a six pack and never came back, ten years later to 2019. So Dot is supposed to be about 29.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Another moment I liked was when Lorraine was told Dot had been admitted to the hospital.  It totally evoked the Godfather Baptism scene for me:  Michael was standing and one of his minions came up to him, bent close to his ear so as not to allow others to hear him, and I am almost certain he said, "It's done."  This, in regards to the assassination of five major enemies of the Corleone crime family. 

Those were the words spoken to Lorraine, in a similar manner.

[Starchild]

3 hours ago, peeayebee said:

I had been thinking that Scotty was actually Roy's daughter, and I'm not sure she's not. I haven't done any of the math. But if she is, I don't think he gave any sign of suspecting. Of course Dot could have been pregnant without his knowledge when she left him.

If the timing makes him even suspect it, he'll get a DNA test for sure. He'll take what's his.

[SoMuchTV]

5 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

No she just knocked him out and switched his name with Wayne’s so that he’d be kidnapped. But yeah, he still didn’t deserve that. And this kind of collateral damage is why I can’t really bring myself to see her as the hero of this story.

Yeah, I think they made a point of showing what a jerk he was, so we’d be okay with his eventual kidnapping, karma and all. But I agree, Dot is not especially concerned about collateral damage. 

[iMonrey]

3 hours ago, DMK said:

So Dot is supposed to be about 29.

Then she cannot possibly be Gator's mother, which is something that has been wildly speculated about around the interwebs.

[DMK]

3 hours ago, Starchild said:

If the timing makes him even suspect it, he'll get a DNA test for sure. He'll take what's his.

Roy may not be interested in a girl. 

8 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Then she cannot possibly be Gator's mother, which is something that has been wildly speculated about around the interwebs.

I’ve never thought Dot was Gator’s mother. They’re practically the same age. Not to mention that they’ve pretty well established that Roy had a first wife that also went missing.

[Starchild]

37 minutes ago, DMK said:

Roy may not be interested in a girl.

His other two are girls, no? 

Regardless, he's interested in what's his, that's for sure.

[DMK]

8 minutes ago, Starchild said:

His other two are girls, no? 

Regardless, he's interested in what's his, that's for sure.

He’s interested in a wife that he considers property. Yes, the kids with his third wife are both girls. But often the case with someone like Roy, male children are all they’re interested in. Gator is the only boy but he’s also the only one that’s grown, so it remains to be seen how Roy values the children.

 

[Tatum]

14 hours ago, aghst said:

She may or may not pay off Indira's debt but the way she appraised her seemed pretty disdainful because she's probably used to looking at debtors as weak and somehow inherently inferior and deserving of being exploited by her debt collection company.

This pissed me off. If $192,000 of Indira's debt includes her mortgage, that is really not that alarming. You'd be hard pressed to find a home owner in a metropolitan area who didn't have a mortgage of at least $200,000. And home ownership is the most reliable way to build generational wealth, and has been for decades. Living beyond your means is for sure a very common problem, but needing to have a mortgage is not a character failing. Nor is a medical problem that puts you in debt. It just seemed an excuse for Lorraine to pontificate to the peons and it was obnoxious. Roy and the bankers deserved it; Indira did not.

13 hours ago, DMK said:

I look at it as speaking to Roy in a language he’ll understand. He’s been claiming that husband’s right crap every episode. No matter that he remarried, he’s determined to make that claim. So Lorraine pointed out that Wayne has the claim more than Roy does. . 

That's how I took it as well. Like, even if I agreed with your philosophy, logically it still doesn't matter.

 

I did like Lorraine for a minute when she said that she couldn't get rid of Dot because that would hurt Wayne and Scotty, which seems to be rather compassionate. Plenty of people in her shoes would rationalize that both would be better off and would eventually move on from Dot anyways.

[peeayebee]

I thought Lorraine was saying Indira had taken out a second mortgage, but maybe I'm wrong.

[iMonrey]

5 hours ago, Tatum said:

This pissed me off. If $192,000 of Indira's debt includes her mortgage, that is really not that alarming.

This didn't make sense to me either since a mortgage is not considered a debt. I'd have to hear the exact dialogue again but I think what Lorraine meant was that she had a mortgage on top of her 192K in debt, which made it that much harder to pay either. 

[Starchild]

Yeah I think a mortgage is indeed debt, but it's not CONSUMER debt. Which is what the idiot husband is rapidly compounding.

[Tatum]

55 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

This didn't make sense to me either since a mortgage is not considered a debt. I'd have to hear the exact dialogue again but I think what Lorraine meant was that she had a mortgage on top of her 192K in debt, which made it that much harder to pay either. 

I thought that too at first, so I went back and watched, and Lorraine says, "I looked it up. $192,000, spread between your mortgage, car loans, student loans, medical bills, credit cards. Hell, you've got it all". Then she goes on to say, "Don't feel bad, over 90% are debtors, in the red, living beyond their means".

I would imagine most of the middle class has loans totaling at least that if we are counting mortgages, and that includes people living at or below their means (of course plenty of people buy/finance more house they can afford, but that does not appear to be the case for Indira).

That makes Lorraine all the more out of touch if she is considering simply needing a mortgage or a car loan to be living beyond one's means. Very few people can pay cash for a house. And a lot of the time, even those who could still choose to finance because they either need to keep some assets liquid and not tied up in real estate, or they can simply make more money using their own cash for investments than what the interest costs them.

 

If Lorraine was simply saying people are too quick to finance things, rationalizing that as long as they can afford the minimum payment, they can afford to asset, and are one missed paycheck away from financial disaster, that it absolutely true, but that was not reflected in her lecture to Indira.

 

[Raja]

Lorraine is just Dave Ramsey, but she doesn't make her money trying to  help 

[possibilities]

Do we know what happened to Lorraine's husband? I'm assuming she was not a single mom.

[Tatum]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

Do we know what happened to Lorraine's husband? I'm assuming she was not a single mom.

I think he was in the first episode in the family picture. Not sure if he is professionally involved in the company though. 

[peeayebee]

He seemed like he wasn't involved in much of anything.

[Blakeston]

On 12/13/2023 at 4:23 PM, aghst said:

That seems to be one common reaction, that she's lying to her husband and daughter, maybe putting them in danger.

But the other part is that her life with Roy was so awful that she's doing whatever she can to protect them, which includes only letting them know the minimum needed for her to protect them.

Remember, there is still the missing first wife, maybe Gator's mother.

If Dot was putting her family's safety first, she would have gotten them out of that house in episode 1. Even if the only way to convince Wayne to disappear somewhere with Scottie was to tell him the truth.

I think Dot is in so much denial that she can't even think straight. I'll root for her against Roy 100%, though.

Speaking of Roy, it was great seeing Lorraine put him in his place, but I don't buy for a second that he would agree with her that he's looking for freedom with no responsibility.

Based on everything we've seen, he would have blathered on about how libertarianism is all about personal responsibility, and not relying on the government, and how it's a man's responsibility to take care of his wife/chattel, etc. etc.

Not that I'm complaining that we didn't get another Roy speech!

[tennisgurl]

Lorraine is a terrible person, but I was absolutely cheering when she put Roy in his place. "Your fighting to be a baby." Roy being totally unable to formulate a response was both hilarious and I think says a lot about him. When he isn't in his little kingdom where he's totally in control, he suddenly is off his game, left to sputter and make stupid cracks about peoples names as he leaves. I will also give Lorraine a tiny bit of credit that she didn't hand Dot over to him even though she hates her enough to have her forcibly committed because her son and granddaughter love her. Its the very bare minimum, but its something. 

Dot clearly is running on a lot of panic and trauma, its probably why so many of her plans are so panicked and her lies so obvious. Poor Wayne, I hope that he gets better soon, its sad to see him so mentally messed up. I don't think that Dot is using him or Scottie, she really does seem to love them and was happy to live a quiet life as a wife and stay at home mom before she was arrested. I wish she had told Wayne the truth earlier, but here we are. 

Olmstead needs to have some real talk with her husband, especially now that they've been handed this kid and are being pulled into this whole mess with the Queen of Debit. Dude, a random person and her child were in your house for hours! Your in a mountain of debt that your wife is trying to deal with! Take a little break from your golf toys! 

[Tatum]

51 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

When he isn't in his little kingdom where he's totally in control, he suddenly is off his game, left to sputter and make stupid cracks about peoples names as he leaves.

Hahahaha..."Oh yeah? well...well...well, your name is stupid!"

 

Hey Roy, to quote Joe Pesci guest starring on SNL- a fifth grader called, and she wants her witty retort back.

 

He really is a sad sack when he's not bullying the easily cowed constituents of his area. During the first episode, I thought he was going to be like the Season 3 Big Bad (played by Professor Lupin), but he's really much more like Dodd in season 2, beating women and unarmed rivals while dispatching Hanzee to do the hard stuff, while underestimating pretty much everyone just because he's used to hiding behind his mom's henchmen. Funny how he was outsmarted by Peggy, who could have been the inspiration for Dot's carefully constructed alias.

[iMonrey]

23 hours ago, Tatum said:

I would imagine most of the middle class has loans totaling at least that if we are counting mortgages, and that includes people living at or below their means (of course plenty of people buy/finance more house they can afford, but that does not appear to be the case for Indira).

Yeah, there seems to be a disconnect between the ordinary debt people have between mortgages, car loans and credit cards, and all the past due notices and calls from collection agencies Indira is getting. I think we're meant to assume her husband is running up the bills with his golf crap while she's the sole earner in the household, but that means debt isn't so much her problem as her deadbeat husband is.

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

I will also give Lorraine a tiny bit of credit that she didn't hand Dot over to him even though she hates her enough to have her forcibly committed because her son and granddaughter love her.

I'm not convinced Lorraine didn't want to hand Dot over to Roy because her son loves her. In fact I think she feels the same sense of ownership over Dot that Roy does. They are really two peas in a pod. She knows Dot could potentially cause trouble for her so she prefers to keep her under her own thumb.

And ironically, Lorraine is actually doing what's best for her granddaughter, motives aside. Dot really is a danger to both her husband and daughter, and there really does seem to be something not quite right with Dot mentally. 

[peeayebee]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I'm not convinced Lorraine didn't want to hand Dot over to Roy because her son loves her. In fact I think she feels the same sense of ownership over Dot that Roy does. They are really two peas in a pod. She knows Dot could potentially cause trouble for her so she prefers to keep her under her own thumb. 

I don't think Lorraine feels she owns Dot. I think re Roy Lorraine was actually more about the 'sisterhood' of it all. She had just dealt with the two bankers who didn't seem to respect a woman businessperson. Now she has this a-hole libertarian demanding his wife be returned to him. She may not like or trust Dot, but she despises all of what Roy stands for, seeing wives as property, women as less than.

Lorraine seems to have disdain for lots of men in her life. (For women too? I don't know.) But she has no use for any man who thinks he's better than a woman.

[DMK]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Dot really is a danger to both her husband and daughter, and there really does seem to be something not quite right with Dot mentally. 

The biggest danger to Wayne and Scotty has been people of authority trying to assert themselves over Dot’s personhood. Everything was fine before that. I’d say the thing not quite right mentally with Dot is a pathological mistrust of law enforcement, most likely thanks to Roy.

That’s definitely something that’s been documented: spouse of a cop who can’t find any help because all the cops are buddies. I’m guessing that normal channels didn’t work so well for Dot the first time, hence the creative wiggle work she’s doing to evade everyone. 

[aghst]

26 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

I don't think Lorraine feels she owns Dot. I think re Roy Lorraine was actually more about the 'sisterhood' of it all. She had just dealt with the two bankers who didn't seem to respect a woman businessperson. Now she has this a-hole libertarian demanding his wife be returned to him. She may not like or trust Dot, but she despises all of what Roy stands for, seeing wives as property, women as less than.

Lorraine seems to have disdain for lots of men in her life. (For women too? I don't know.) But she has no use for any man who thinks he's better than a woman.

We will see.

Maybe in the end Dot and Lorraine will be allies.

Or Dot will have to deal with Lorraine as well as Roy, to be free.

Certainly Lorraine, especially her business, has been portrayed as a malevolent force.  Not for Dot and Wayne but certainly Lorraine uses the power from her business to manipulate people.

She's also willing to hire private security, maybe so far only for defense than offense.

But she had Dot committed.  That's not a very sisterhood type of move, unless they somehow show that it was for her own good and the welfare of the family.

Dot didn't wait to find out, she got out of that hospital and being tied down as soon as she could.

 

[peeayebee]

4 hours ago, aghst said:

But she had Dot committed.  That's not a very sisterhood type of move, unless they somehow show that it was for her own good and the welfare of the family.

No, I'm sure it wasn't for any reason other than Lorraine doesn't trust Dot and think she's a danger -- or bringing danger -- to her son and granddaughter.

When I said 'sisterhood' I meant in the moment of dealing with Roy and other men like him. Lorraine will take the side of any woman who has a misogynist trying to control her.

Hmm. I wonder if Lorraine will end up helping Indira with her husband troubles. 

[SoMuchTV]

11 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

Hmm. I wonder if Lorraine will end up helping Indira with her husband troubles. 

Speaking of hmmm and wondering… I had a brief wonder if whether Indira’s deadbeat clueless husband (whose name I’ve already forgotten, if I ever knew it) would turn out to be a hero somehow. 

[blixie]

Quote

If the timing makes him even suspect it, he'll get a DNA test for sure. He'll take what's his.

She's a girl tho, even if a gender non conforming one, which will only anger him more. It seems like she has to be his kid, in the sense that Nadine being under his thumb as just her was bearable but knowing she was pregnant would be a huge motive to leave and the timing seems to match up tho Scotty could be 9/10 but for her sake I hope she's not his kid.

I loved seeing Lorraine give the banker a what do you hate more choice, as then it's turned around her when Hamm's smug fuck shows up to barter for Dot, someone she has longed to be rid of. I also think she's smart enough to have done the math and figure it out even if he doesn't and she and Dot are probably on the same page of protecting Scotty/Wayne and that she ultimately doesn't care if Scotty isn't blood which puts her quite a few rungs above Roy. JJL deserves an emmy for her delivery of Pipe Down Ponyboy and the whole scene with Hamm

I also suspect that Gator's own abuse/disrespect with dad will factor in his arc w/re: Nadine. She was probably more a sibling than a step mother and they're shared look felt very empathetic.

The only thing disappointing me so far is how Lamorne has faded out.

[peeayebee]

Both Witt and Ole Munch were absent from this ep, but they'll certainly be back.

[LadyintheLoop]

Quote

I did like Lorraine for a minute when she said that she couldn't get rid of Dot because that would hurt Wayne and Scotty, which seems to be rather compassionate. 

And when the hospital staff finally frees Wayne from the bathroom, she'll realize that Dot risked her escape to save him.

 

Points to ponder:

• Roy says "Nadine" owes him a debt.
• Dot says "they took me in," which sounds more like a kindness than a crime. (Are "they" Roy and the first wife?)
• Roy stopped Joshua once and for all from abusing Lenore, then immediately made her an accessory to obstruction of justice (not murder).

Maybe Sheriff Roy actually rescued young Nadine from an abuser and then embroiled her in something illegal. Her prints had to be in the system for a reason.

[rur]

In the first episode, Nadine told the cop, "This isn't my first escape." That led me to think that it wasn't her second one, either. I've been wondering if she ended up with Roy because she had left something terrible. It's not inconceivable to think that, at first,  she would have seen Roy's place as  safe (or maybe just safer). 

[LadyintheLoop]

Right. By Roy's account, her escape from him was anything but dramatic.