S17.E07: A Honeymoon Rockier Than the Mountains

[Emma Snyder]

Quote

A husband shuts down when his wife asks a question that's too personal; wife gets judged for asking the wrong question; one husband has to deal with a medical emergency; one couple has a mountain to get over.

Airs Wednesday November 29 at 8:00PM EST.

[Retired at last]

I hope they are not all the same couple!

[Elizzikra]

I stand on this… Lauren and Orion are exhausting….

[VioletNevermind]

Orion is choosing some very interesting hills upon which to die.  Bless her heart, Lauren has tried her best to keep it cool and be open-minded, so I can’t blame her for becoming frustrated and challenging him now.  It’s hard to believe that we’re not even done with the honeymoons yet.  I’m tired already.  

[Crashcourse]

Yeah, Orion has made up his mind and just looking for a way out.  I don't think there was ever an attraction to Lauren, and perhaps vice versa.

I still don't understand why Lauren brought up the "I had sex two months ago" stuff.   

Edited November 30, 2023 by Crashcourse

[Kiss my mutt]

You can’t win with this guy. I can’t imagine every day with him. 

[VioletNevermind]

Orion is an absolute master of gaslighting.  He wants to be treated like this precious, fragile flower that can never be disturbed.  The feelings and opinions of others don’t matter if they don’t align with his.  

[Crashcourse]

I can't imagine every day with either one.  Orion is constantly butt hurt, and Lauren just likes to hear herself spew word salad.

[Elizzikra]

I like Austin but he seems completely stoned…

[Crashcourse]

Yes, he does.

[Elizzikra]

I am trying very hard to remember that I have no understanding, whatsoever, of Orion's experience moving through the world as a Native American man. I feel like he is hiding, though, behind Lauren's hurtful comment. He was heated about it in the moment but then said he forgave her. Then he slut shames her and all of a sudden, he's not over it and he's still offended. 

In talking to Lauren, Orion completely ignores that Lauren also has life experience as a racial/ethnic minority and a woman and someone who identifies as LGBTQIA+. To hear him talk, you would think that Orion believes that Lauren has never experienced bigotry or discrimination. In fact, he speaks as though no one else has ever experienced bigotry or discrimination.

Run Lauren. Nothing will ever be enough for Orion.

[Crashcourse]

I hope Lauren and Orion have split for good, because they've managed to suck the air out of an already boring season.   

[Elizzikra]

I ADORE Clare's pink satin pants. I really want them.

I un-adore Kirsten's orange pageant pantsuit...

I also think Lauren looks great in tonight's After-Party. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Elizzikra

[kristen111]

Firstly, I would like more show and less After Party.

Secondly, whoever matched them, did wrong.  Orion and Lauren should not have been matched as we see now.  Plus, Lauren is too much with revealing anything on her mind so soon in the marriage.  She didn’t have to tell him she had sex close to the marriage.  Unnecessary.  She blabs too much.

Whats with the blonde who married the Jewish guy?  She was the life of the party before the marriage .. now she’s very meek and subdued.

Poor matches from the beginning.

The show should be two hours.  None of this calling up and how to make drinks.

Where’s Cal and other expert?  Too many changes this season.

[Elizzikra]

1 minute ago, kristen111 said:

Lauren is too much with revealing anything on her mind so soon in the marriage.  She didn’t have to tell him she had sex close to the marriage.  Unnecessary.  She blabs too much.

 

I mean, he asked. She answered him honestly. And there is no reason for her to be ashamed of having had sex before she was engaged to anyone.

We saw both Cal and Pia tonight. Pepper is the only one who hasn’t weighed in on this disaster.

[APK]

Doesn’t Orion still live with his mother and sister? Orion has definitely had too many females influencing his behavior in  life. 

[Elizzikra]

Just now, APK said:

Doesn’t Orion still live with his mother and sister? Orion has definitely had too many females influencing his behavior in  life. 

I think he may be who he is despite them and not because of them. He said in a previous after-party that his sister told him he slut-shamed Lauren and I wholeheartedly agree with that assessment.

In other news, did anyone else think it looked like Cameron had gotten a haircut while he was at the hospital? I swear his hair looked different when he turned up to dinner with the flowers. And while those were really a beautiful gesture, all I could think was that she wasn't going to be able to take them on the plane and they were leaving the next day.

[endure]

1 hour ago, Elizzikra said:

I stand on this… Lauren and Orion are exhausting….

Yep - far too heavy, I don't like either of 'em and the rest are so darn boring I'm finding it difficult to stay awake.  It's def not a show where you don't want it end LOL 🥹

[endure]

1 hour ago, VioletNevermind said:

Orion is an absolute master of gaslighting.  He wants to be treated like this precious, fragile flower that can never be disturbed.  The feelings and opinions of others don’t matter if they don’t align with his.  

Orion is a fugly grown ass baby.... and he needs to get over himself. 

[endure]

Orion tattle taling on Lauren, too much!  I don't care what his heritage is - he's too weird.  I did LOVE Reservation Dogs 🤗 I can't believe I watch this crap, wtf is wrong with me?

[endure]

1 hour ago, Elizzikra said:

I like Austin but he seems completely stoned…

I think you are right on, just too early for me to know if I like him yet.

[APK]

I can relate to Cameron’s minor medical emergency. He was experiencing swimmer’s ear. Basically, your earwax traps water in the ear canal. Fungus begins to grow and irritate the ear canal. The pain and pressure can be very annoying. The earwax and water must be drained from the ear canal with a suction tube by a M.D. Antibiotics will also be given after the ear canal has been cleared out.

Edited November 30, 2023 by APK

[Meowwww]

Lauren and Orion, Lord.  They talk and talk and no one bothers to just feel and go with it. There’s no feeling!  Over analyzing.  I have friends like this, love them but they are exhausting. Why can’t Lauren and Orion just say screw it, throw the judgement to the wind, and let what happens, happen?  
The girl who has never had a relationship before, she’s married to Mr Shallow.  He’s not said one thing about feelings, just vocal fry. 
And Cameron and the therapist, no chemistry. 
Actually come to think of it, none of them have chemistry.  

Edited November 30, 2023 by Meowwww

[Elizzikra]

15 minutes ago, APK said:

I can relate to Cameron’s minor medical emergency. He was experiencing swimmer’s ear. Basically, your earwax traps water in the ear canal. Fungus begins to grow and irritate the ear canal. The pain and pressure can be very annoying. The earwax and water must be drained from the ear canal with a suction tube by a M.D. Antibiotics will also be given after the ear canal has been cleared out.

I was wondering if he was going to be able to fly home the next day.

[Meowwww]

1 minute ago, Elizzikra said:

I was wondering if he was going to be able to fly home the next day.

Me too.  I haven’t had swimmers ear but flew in Europe from London to Rome with a bad cold.  Eardrum ruptured and it was excruciating.  The flight attendants were trying to help with hot gauze and a cup, but I wouldn’t wish that on anyone.  

[For Cereals]

Orion is a freaking baby.  Dude, you’ve experienced racism twice in life!  Consider yourself lucky!  Ask Lauren how many times she’s experienced it.  I’ll wait.  Speaking as a POC, I’m sure she could fill a book.  Also, yes, the joke was bad and she didn’t know the origin, but I’m sure she thought in that moment that they’re both minorities and they can joke together, in private and feel the safety and even bond in doing that.  I do that with friends both inside my own community and with friends of other minority communities—everybody’s got jokes and we have the shared internal understanding of code switching and what stays at the kitchen table.

I don’t know about lack of attraction, but I think it’s more that Orion got called out for his behavior and he wants her to be more wrong than he was.

And I can’t believe I’ve written this much because they are both indeed exhausting and he probably does not have a girth certificate.

[Empress1]

7 hours ago, For Cereals said:

Dude, you’ve experienced racism twice in life!  Consider yourself lucky!  Ask Lauren how many times she’s experienced it.  I’ll wait.

Yeah, maybe he meant he’s only been called or heard a racial slur twice, because … I mean, I’ve been called the n-word a handful of times, starting when I was five (at a progressive school that today bills itself as anti-racist). I experience racism every day. I find them both exhausting. I was thoroughly therapy-speak-ed out listening to them.

They got Pastor Cal in his car in a hoodie, like, doing his weekend errands. That cracked me up.

Clare: “Being in this hotel room alone is great. I hope my husband is okay or whatever.”

Emily said she’d convert to Judaism without knowing what it entails. I hope she does that research (though I don’t think they’re going to make it). One of my best friends converted; it’s not a small undertaking. 

Someone said the couples don’t have chemistry. I agree. Becca and Austin kiss, but it looks platonic to me. Also I think Becca is more into Austin than he is into her.

[Flutterby]

Regarding Orion and Lauren, they are completely exhausting to listen to.  Orion has based everything in his life on being Native American.  It seems he's obsessed with it.  I'm looking at his character and not the color of his skin, shout out to Dr. King, and I don't like what I see at all.  When you see everything as being offensive then you have a real problem.  Lauren should run and never look back. 

[Lindz]

I'm officially done with Orion. He's a dirty, dirty LIAR!!!!! How dare he reassure her that she didn't mess things up with him because of that joke and then decide later he's offended. Plus he lied about saying sex was out because she had sex 2 months prior. I understand why she told him to cut the BS with that. & Then to say he felt unsafe because of her tone when he made it unsafe for her to share information??? GTFOH!!!! Like he's looking to be the victim. They both need to grow tf up! She's disappointed by his inconsistency, yet said she'd keep her tone in check only to yell & take off the ring & request a divorce? Um. WHAT?!! Just a vicious cycle of screw ups & apologies, not good. But him taking her joke with a word HE BROUGHT UP & comparing it to an intentionally hurtful comment someone else said is ABSURD! I'm done with him! I'm done with both of them! Looks like he wants to make that his excuse to quit & he can & look like an idiot for it!! I'm sure her having sex 2 months prior has NOTHING to do with him revisiting that. 😉 WHATEVER!!! GOOD RIDDANCE!!! She offended his community & family & failed him & the marriage?!! GTFOH!!!! Should've known his "failure" comment would go from himself to her. & This was AFTER consulting an "expert"!!!! & then they got another "expert" & still couldn't figure it out?!! WTF did he call PC for if it wasn't to fix things?!!! He called to say how hurt & offended he's now deciding to be because of that joke?!!! Boy, BYE!!!

[ECM1231]

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

Also I think Becca is more into Austin than he is into her.

Yep, that's the vibe I'm getting, too.

[Lindz]

Now Austin has nothing to talk about??? 😅 He asked what Becca wanted to talk about them said they're not gunna talk about it right then. Um. Then he didn't mean his question. Interesting she took it as rejection. I think that's a little unfair because she didn't say she really wanted to talk about it then. It was something they could discuss later & they did, a little. It was moreso a delay than rejection.

[Shrek]

Orion is what I would call a professional victim, he bases everything in his life on being the victim & finding offense everywhere, these people are always exhausting. Lauren is the type who uses 50 words to say something when 5 would have been more than enough and using so many words tends to bury the point of what she is saying, or trying to, as people just switch off,  people who do this are also exhausting. 

[Lindz]

Orion is the punk marriage isn't for! PC should tell him to quit being a punk!!! & Lauren saying there isn't a book on marriage? WHAT?!!! Of course there are!!! Lots!!! PC even wrote a book!!! She needs to read and learn words!!! Can't wait to be done with her incorrect word usage!!! "Quietness" was the last straw for me. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Lindz

[Racj82]

22 hours ago, kristen111 said:

Firstly, I would like more show and less After Party.

Secondly, whoever matched them, did wrong.  Orion and Lauren should not have been matched as we see now.  Plus, Lauren is too much with revealing anything on her mind so soon in the marriage.  She didn’t have to tell him she had sex close to the marriage.  Unnecessary.  She blabs too much.

Whats with the blonde who married the Jewish guy?  She was the life of the party before the marriage .. now she’s very meek and subdued.

Poor matches from the beginning.

The show should be two hours.  None of this calling up and how to make drinks.

Where’s Cal and other expert?  Too many changes this season.

The last thing this show needs is to go back to two hours. Do we not remember how much complaining there was when that was the case? There is not enough content here to sustain that. What would of been the benefit of that here? I know people are in this huge rush to get off the honeymoon but they are still just married and getting to know each other regardless. The scenery will change but we still be dealing with the same issues that we are already delving into.

12 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Clare: “Being in this hotel room alone is great. I hope my husband is okay or whatever.”

That's all I heard there. She was so happy to he alone again after a few days married. Good luck with those two.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Racj82

[Empress1]

2 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

The last thing this show needs is to go back to two hours. Do we not remember how much complaining there was when that was the case? There is not enough content here to sustain that. What would have been the benefit of that here?

Yeah, they’d fill it with … filler, not real content. I think the weddings are two hours and they still manage to drag those out for weeks. The after-show doesn’t bother me because I just don’t watch it. Never have.

4 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

That's all I heard there. She was so happy to he alone again after a few days married. Good luck with those too.

I get that she had a work call, but did Clare check on Cameron at all? I got the vibe that she was like “ok, have fun at the hospital” and didn’t give him another thought until he showed up. Also that was quite the half-assed side hug she gave him when he did show up.

[cinsays]

I think there must have been more of a conversation that we didn't see  between Lauren and Orion that he found offensive and is unable to recover from.  I can't think the redskin comment was the only thing that happened.

And then he seemed to be saying he was trying to get over it but then, at the end, said there was no way he could, so why continue at all?  they need to just divorce now for both their sanities (and ours).

I think he needs to look within his tribe for someone to love and the "experts" really failed in matching him with someone who is not.

They must sign something that says that have to appear on the aftershow because i see no reason Orion would ever voluntarily agree to sit there and have Kiesha question him, especially since she seems to enjoy teasing him.

 

 

[Real4real]

I think Orion’s problem is sexual.  Hearing that Lauren isn’t a V gave him the ick and he is using the race card to end it.  He seems scared of sex.

[Racj82]

10 hours ago, Real4real said:

I think Orion’s problem is sexual.  Hearing that Lauren isn’t a V gave him the ick and he is using the race card to end it.  He seems scared of sex.

He didn't ask for that and why would that be a turn off to most people? The odds of someone coming into this as a virgin are super slim.

I think he's intimidated by strong women. Like from his family. He can't take it. So, he is fabricating reasons to check out.

I never believed the attraction was there either.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Racj82

[Rightside]

I'm getting bored with this season and Keisha's interruptions with those stupid polls need to stop.  I don't want to hear her talk.

I fast forward so much, but why are they all wearing those matching necklaces?

[Retired at last]

I sure hope they just divorce that pair (Orion and Lauren). I can't listen to either one of them. As has been mentioned numerous times, they just suck the air out of a room. The show spends too much time on them, so just let them (and us) out of their misery. But, I don't know how quickly they will do that, considering that they are down 1 couple. I have heard they will bring Michael back and match him with another bride, so who knows? If they are down to the three very boring, no chemistry, matches, this will be more4 horrible than it already is.

And, yes, I agree with @Racj82, that he is very intimidated by strong women (like his mother and Lauren). I really don't know what Lauren is upset about. He is horrible. And she is not easy to be with, either. His latest reason for not being committed was ridiculous. Why shouldn't she have sex after she applied to be on the show. She had no idea she would be chosen. It's like applying for a job - you don't stop looking after you apply someplace. You have no idea if you will be selected. He's looking for a way out. I hope he doesn't think that once he becomes single again, he will have many women out there just waiting for him. He is gross.

Again, why these people were selected from the "thousands" of people who apply is telling. 

Poor Cam. She has zero interest in him at all. Even when he brought her all those flowers, he got nothing back from her. Her face is flat. She wants out.

Emily tries too hard, and her husband is not interested or attracted to her.

Same with Becca. I think they seem happy, but there is no chemistry.

[kristen111]

13 hours ago, APK said:

Doesn’t Orion still live with his mother and sister? Orion has definitely had too many females influencing his behavior in  life. 

Yeah .. he’s a Wuss.

[kristen111]

Is this the Orion and Lauren Show?  OMG, STFU Lauren.  The worst episode ever.   Did Emily lose her voice?  Don’t think her husband is into her.  The only one I like is Cameron.  Too much Keisha too.

[Empress1]

25 minutes ago, Retired at last said:

Why shouldn't she have sex after she applied to be on the show. She had no idea she would be chosen. It's like applying for a job - you don't stop looking after you apply someplace. You have no idea if you will be selected

Yeah, I don’t see the problem with this either. It was two months ago! If she’d done it the day before the wedding, that would be one thing, but two months? She’d probably applied and was waiting to hear - your job analogy is right on. I think the experts have said stuff like “take care of any loose ends” when they’ve told people they’re matched - I don’t think anybody expects celibacy until they’re matched.

25 minutes ago, Retired at last said:

Emily tries too hard, and her husband is not interested or attracted to her.

He’s very flat. He told her this episode that he thought she was easy to talk to but there was no warmth at all in his voice when he said it. That seems to be his natural affect (my boss’s boss is like this - she’s really nice, that’s just how she talks) so I don’t think it’s limited to her, but I also don’t think he’s into her.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Empress1

[kristen111]

22 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Emily tries too hard, and her husband is not interested or attracted to her.

Emily is intimidated by him.  She was the life of the party before him .. now is mum and uninteresting.  She feels she’s not good enough for him.  To me, he ain’t that great.

[seacliffsal]

Orion really contradicts himself.  He admitted to Lauren that he said/sang the n word and she showed him grace (or at least said she did).  He then said he gave grace to her (which we now know he didn't).  He also said to Lauren's dad that he didn't want to be 'bossed' around by a woman because he had been dominated by women his whole life, but then told PC that he had to 'protect' his mom and sister from his step-father.  He also consistently said that he seeks opportunities to teach those who are ignorant but now says he can't move beyond someone's 'ignorant' joke.  EXHAUSTING!!!  Of course, Lauren doublespeaks and participates in word salad so maybe they actually could have been a match...

I watched the after-party for the first time because of the complexity of the episode and it was interesting to hear from Claire and Lauren. 

[After7Only]

6 hours ago, Flutterby said:

Regarding Orion and Lauren, they are completely exhausting to listen to.  Orion has based everything in his life on being Native American. 

Yet he said doesn't date Native American women....  That being the case, surely there's been other partners that have said something racially offensive or ignorant to him.  Does he just cut everyone off that offends him?  Something isn't adding up.

Hopefully this Lauren/Orion show overload indicates that they really do split early.  Much like the season with the "I'm a Good Person" and her partner.   It was that couple nonstop the first 3-4 episodes and once the split, the show focused on the other couples.   

 

[ECM1231]

6 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Also that was quite the half-assed side hug she gave him when he did show up.

Exactly! Would it have killed her to give him a little kiss on the cheek? She's cold. Poor guy is in pain and took the time to get her beautiful flowers en route from the hospital. Sheesh, at least a legitimate big hug was warranted. 

[Rightside]

6 hours ago, Retired at last said:

Emily tries too hard, and her husband is not interested or attracted to her.

 

I don't think Emily tries too hard. I think she just agrees with whatever he says!

The producers are trying to find some drama so they went with her saying something about him not being fun or something like that.

Basically, there doesn't seem to be much spark between them.

[Racj82]

3 hours ago, Rightside said:

I don't think Emily tries too hard. I think she just agrees with whatever he says!

The producers are trying to find some drama so they went with her saying something about him not being fun or something like that.

Basically, there doesn't seem to be much spark between them.

They didn't create the drama. He super overreacted. It probably wouldn't even been made into a thing if he didn't go back to it multiple times. Based on the aftershow, he seems to have been quite the A Hole to Clare as well. I think he's hiding a mean streak under his blandness.

5 hours ago, After7Only said:

Yet he said doesn't date Native American women....  That being the case, surely there's been other partners that have said something racially offensive or ignorant to him.  Does he just cut everyone off that offends him?  Something isn't adding up.

Hopefully this Lauren/Orion show overload indicates that they really do split early.  Much like the season with the "I'm a Good Person" and her partner.   It was that couple nonstop the first 3-4 episodes and once the split, the show focused on the other couples.   

 

What is there to focus on with the other couples? The other ones seem to be tip toeing around potential land minds and not doing much else beyond that. 

People often complain about one couple or one source of drama dominating a season but the reality is if there were more interesting things going elsewhere, we would get that too. I want to be entertained or at least given something to keep me involved. The other couples have not given me that.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Racj82

[princelina]

20 hours ago, For Cereals said:

Orion is a freaking baby.  Dude, you’ve experienced racism twice in life!  Consider yourself lucky!  Ask Lauren how many times she’s experienced it.  I’ll wait.  Speaking as a POC, I’m sure she could fill a book.  Also, yes, the joke was bad and she didn’t know the origin, but I’m sure she thought in that moment that they’re both minorities and they can joke together, in private and feel the safety and even bond in doing that.  I do that with friends both inside my own community and with friends of other minority communities—everybody’s got jokes and we have the shared internal understanding of code switching and what stays at the kitchen table.

I don’t know about lack of attraction, but I think it’s more that Orion got called out for his behavior and he wants her to be more wrong than he was.

And I can’t believe I’ve written this much because they are both indeed exhausting and he probably does not have a girth certificate.

Yes, yes and yes to all 3 of your paragraphs!  Since they replayed that clip several times last week and this:  he asked her if she's every used a derogatory term for native americans, she says, "probably, when I was a kid. . ." He immediately jumps in with "Redskin?!?!?!?!?" and she says "No, I've never heard of that, not sure what it means . . . oh I see a little bit there on your nose" and it's game over.  IMO it's not even the "crude joke" she keeps taking responsibility for, and if a joke about a sunburnt nose was the second biggest example of racism he can cite experiencing - wow.  Then we know because he told us that he went and sulked about it for 2 1/2 hours.  Then he tried shaming her and "taking sex off the table" and when she shamed him back and "won" that argument, he needed more alone time (sulking) and came back reoffended by the (not) crude joke.  I think he wants to be the biggest victim and knows he's losing because as a black woman she may experience racism randomly from any quarter, whereas he can't even experience it without announcing himself because to regular people he just looks like a white dude.  I also wondered if in her googling her offensiveness she realized that he was not being truthful about the origin of the term and pointed that out to him 😄 And frankly, if he were telling the truth, how would all of those scalped ancestors feel to know that he feels their pain just as deeply because he was called a name as a child and his wife made a joke about his sunburn?  For shame.

4 hours ago, After7Only said:

Yet he said doesn't date Native American women....  That being the case, surely there's been other partners that have said something racially offensive or ignorant to him.  Does he just cut everyone off that offends him?  Something isn't adding up.

Yes - and then he blames their break-ups on his oversized dick 🤣