S10.E16: Abortion Rights

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Main topic: Abortion rights on the ballot

Also: Speculations that Ron DeSantis wears lifts in his shoes; it was Halloween and local TV hosts did what they always do; New Zealand's bird of the century competition 

Original air date 2023.11.05

And here's the kakapo shagging the photographer's head.  I sense he regrets wearing green.

 

[Annber03]

"It is the Frasier reboot we deserve!" 

I laughed so hard at that. I've heard about that movie in the "Frasier" subreddit and it sounds pretty wild. 

"A father, a mother, and another mother who's twelve." Pretty much sums it up.

The guy who was all, "Those are children that will be alive now." Yeah, until they go to school, where they're at high risk of being gunned down during one of our all too common mass shootings. But hey, at least you did your part to protect these fetuses right up until the moment they were actually born, so...

I also appreciate John pointing out how incredibly infuriating it is that so many of these laws are being made by men who will never, ever get pregnant and never have to directly deal with the emotional, mental, or physical issues that people who are pregnant have to go through. Like that brainac politician who was all, "Oh, gee, I guess there can be another side to this issue after all and there are more people affected by this stuff than I thought." No fucking shit, dude, ya think? 

I felt for the poor gynecologist, too, who was frustrated at how her years' worth of expertise was being overrode by a bunch of men who totally thought they knew better than her. I wasn't just screaming during this segment, I was also flipping off my TV a LOT. Stay the hell out of our goddamn bodies, people, good lord. 

On a lighter note, I absolutely LOVED everything about that Satanic Temple :D. And I do take comfort in knowing that the vast majority of people in this country are actually very much in favor of allowing women access to abortion, to the point where, when it's on the ballot, they keep voting against any attempts to restrict or ban it. I hope like hell that continues to be the case in these upcoming elections, and I hope we can continue to kick out anyone who thinks they have the right to control what people get to do with their personal health decisions like this. 

I also very much enjoyed the segment about the bird competition. I did not realize this was such serious business in New Zealand, to the point where voter fraud was involved :p! I very much enjoyed John's pitch for the Putaketake, and I may have to cast a vote of my own at some point :p.

The "newscasters in Halloween costumes" bit was fun, too. I genuinely liked the weather guy dressed as a rain cloud, that was actually kinda cute :D.

[ahisma]

26 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

On a lighter note, I absolutely LOVED everything about that Satanic Temple :D

Texas Satanic Temple for the win with that Antonin Scalia’s Mom joke!

❤️❤️❤️ John for covering this issue.

My favorite costume was also the rain cloud! Appreciated the Barbies, but Ken was not anywhere near Kenough.

My favorite New Zealand bird is the Fantail, but I’m down with John’s campaign, too..

[Lantern7]

Depressing episode saved by John wanting to rig a bird election in New Zealand. Thank goodness for that. Rick and Morty aired at the same time, and the subject of that episode was bleak as all fuck. LWT has a bird humping a dude's head. That is relief . . . especially the rhythm of the wings during said humping.

Not much to say about elections and abortion rights that John didn't already talk about. It's absurd that women's rights are frequently altered by men who don't know jack about the stuff they're voting on. Once again, I'm reminded of the words of George Carlin: "Preborn, you're fine. Preschool, you're fucked."

John likes a bird that looks like Pauly D. fucked a swan. And the show has scattered ads around the world trying to make the Putaketake the bird of the century of New Zealand, which is a choice. Does LWT have enough global pull to rig an election? Here's hoping.

ETA: Here's the Honest Trailer for Money Plane. Fraser Crane, Sideshow Bob . . . .this guy.

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Lantern7

[Annber03]

46 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

LWT has a bird humping a dude's head. That is relief . . . especially the rhythm of the wings during said humping.

The way the wings just kept slapping the guy's head the whole time...XD.

Quote

Once again, I'm reminded of the words of George Carlin: "Preborn, you're fine. Preschool, you're fucked."

We need to play that clip on a loop for everyone. Nailed it in one line. 

Thanks for that "Honest Trailers" video, I look forward to watching that :D!

[arachne]

3 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

"Preborn, you're fine. Preschool, you're fucked."

Carlin also said, "Ever notice how most people who are against abortion are people you'd never want to fuck in the first place?" I must concur. 

As funny as John can be, I sometimes dread his show, knowing how pissed off I'll be with the subject matter. But this episode couldn't have been more relevant. Keeping my fingers crossed about this week's elections. 

[JustHereForFood]

I second everyone's frustration over these laws being passed by men who will never get pregnant* and also by people with no medical expertise. Could there at least be a rule that in order to talk about reproductive rights at all, one has to know some basic facts and pass a test? Like, just the stuff that should be covered in biology and sex education at least. And maybe some test on basic empathy.

*like the Carlin quote above, there is also some saying that gets repeated often when this topic comes up about how if men could get pregnant, abortion providers would be at every corner. 

Seriously, why is it so hard for people to understand that limiting or banning abortion doesn't make it go away, it just makes it less safe. You know what makes the number of abortions go down? Improving the quality of life in the country, there are statistics for that. In my country, whenever the topic of abortions is brought up, people rightfully point out that the numbers are actually continually decreasing on their own, without any need for restrictions and the most visible decline was in the 90's and early 00's as the economic situation for people kept improving. How about focusing on that? Also, there was recently a survey in Poland where they have similarly drastic restrictions like some of those southern states and the result of the last abortion ban was actually that the numbers of pregnancies declined. Despite a number of pro-family policies that were supposed to motivate young people to have children and which are very popular among the population, as I understand. It's very clear that it's not a problem for those women to have children, it's the pregnancy they are scared of, because they can be left to die or forced to give birth to a heavily disabled child who will have little chance of survival. I can't even begin to imagine the trauma that they go through in such cases. The point is, if people really wanted to eliminate abortions, they would focus on the reasons why women end up having them and try to help with those. Like improving sex education, providing better access to birth control for people living in poverty or trying to eliminate sexual abuse. But of course that will not happen, because the goal is not to save any fetuses, it's to control women.

Speaking of statistics, it looks like the number of abortions in total has not decreased as was allegedly intended, quite the contrary: US abortion rates rise post-Roe amid deep divide in state-by-state access . So the only result of this unnecessary cruelty has been a lot of trauma and complications for those who need abortions. Which was probably the real intention, so a job well done, I guess.

 

[Spartan Girl]

I’m so glad John tackled abortion rights this week. I’ve read too many self-righteous posts lately declaring that they’re going to sit out the next election because everything happening lately, and that makes me want to scream in a pillow because that’s what happened in 2016 and the show is a stark reminder of one of the many consequences that came out of that thinking.

10 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I felt for the poor gynecologist, too, who was frustrated at how her years' worth of expertise was being overrode by a bunch of men who totally thought they knew better than her

Same. People in general thinking they know better than doctors that busted their ass in medical school really piss me off.

10 hours ago, Annber03 said:

On a lighter note, I absolutely LOVED everything about that Satanic Temple :D.

Just goes to show you not all heroes wear capes. 🫡

Edited November 6, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[andromeda331]

I loved the Satanic Temple.

Of course the abortion laws are being written by men who will never be pregnant and have zero medical knowledge. It's so depressing that women's needs and health are still not important. The unborn baby is important. Not the mother forced to carry a baby she doesn't want or has to wait to be dying to get the medical help she needs. Or the ten year old girl who was raped and not only would carrying a baby further tramatize her it could also damage her body. 

Nope, none of that matters. 2023 and none of that matters.

[iMonrey]

10 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Not much to say about elections and abortion rights that John didn't already talk about. It's absurd that women's rights are frequently altered by men who don't know jack about the stuff they're voting on.

They know they are pandering to a specific voter by being anti-abortion. That's really the crux of it and I'm a bit disappointed John didn't cover that angle. It's political theater.

[JustHereForFood]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

They know they are pandering to a specific voter by being anti-abortion. That's really the crux of it and I'm a bit disappointed John didn't cover that angle. It's political theater.

I remember some segment from a couple years ago where some guy who didn't look older than 20 said he is only voting because he doesn't want women to have abortions. That was it, no other political opinion. I just wanted to scream at him through my screen: "Then go get a vasectomy and stay at home!"

[ALenore]

I read an article about Idaho, and apparently a lot of OB/GYNs are leaving the state because they don't want to deal with not being able to provide proper care to pregnant women. This means that some women have to travel long distances to get medical care. How is this helping babies?

Also, in that same article, the reported asked a legislator what help the government was going to provide to poor mothers who couldn't afford to care for their children. The legislators response: "That's for churches to deal with."

[peeayebee]

13 hours ago, ahisma said:

Texas Satanic Temple for the win with that Antonin Scalia’s Mom joke!

I'm pretty sure it was Samuel Alito. But, yes, this was great.

I'm definitely pro-choice, but there's no arguing with some anti-choice people. My sister, for instance, is Catholic and is absolutely against the right to abortion. We've only had a couple of conversations about it -- and hardly really conversations -- and of course she firmly believes that a fetus is a human being, so abortion is murder. 

The thing that I don't quite get is that some laws will say it's allowed in order to save the woman's life. OK, so then it's not murder if you're saving the mother? At least the politicians are including exceptions in the laws, but is that consistent thinking? Abortion is murder, but you can murder the fetus if the mother's health is in danger or if the pregnancy is the result of incest or rape or if the person is 10-yrs old. Again, I don't understand.

I've read stories about/interviews with women who WANTED their babies but had health problems arise or the fetuses showed fatal developmental problems, just like the woman we saw here. It is heartbreaking. They don't want to have abortions, but they don't want their babies to suffer, nor do they want to suffer themselves. It's absolutely awful.

I really hope that people realize the importance of voting and do it. For many reasons, but certainly for abortion rights.

The Bird of the Year story was a welcome palate-cleanser. I was all ready to root for the kiwi -- Do they have wings? -- but I'll go with John's candidate, the puteketetke (sp?). I was cracking up as he showed the billboards they purchased all over the world. And then, of course, the clip of the kakapo bird humping that guy's head. Hilarious!!! And I love Stephen Fry.

Like others, I loved the raining cloud costume. My other favorite was the Muppet Beaker costume. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I certainly take John's point about voting, but my legislature made it harder to just get something on the ballot by design.

6 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

like the Carlin quote above, there is also some saying that gets repeated often when this topic comes up about how if men could get pregnant, abortion providers would be at every corner

I up the ante and say you could get an abortion at the ATM. 

48 minutes ago, ALenore said:

I read an article about Idaho, and apparently a lot of OB/GYNs are leaving the state because they don't want to deal with not being able to provide proper care to pregnant women.

Never good when Idaho comes up on a national program. The medical profession in general, people and animals (lots of farms), is losing tons of qualified personnel across the board. There's a huge effort to keep Idaho graduates in Idaho. While it's good that the representative came around on his thinking, he's likely the cause of many qualified medical professionals leaving the state. 

Out in the wild west, driving to Washington, Oregon, Colorado for health care is 6 hours average one way. Of course, you can also pick up some weed on the way. 

[Hanahope]

57 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

The thing that I don't quite get is that some laws will say it's allowed in order to save the woman's life. OK, so then it's not murder if you're saving the mother? At least the politicians are including exceptions in the laws, but is that consistent thinking? Abortion is murder, but you can murder the fetus if the mother's health is in danger or if the pregnancy is the result of incest or rape or if the person is 10-yrs old. Again, I don't understand.

they put in the "exception" to make the law more palatable, but in reality, its not enforced.  there are stories about women being denied abortions because they were not "sick enough" or close enough to dying to justify the exception.  as for rape, there are so many hoops one has to jump through to qualify, again, its words without actual meaning.  the words are in there, but no one follows it and the politicians know it.  

[peeayebee]

12 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

they put in the "exception" to make the law more palatable, but in reality, its not enforced.  there are stories about women being denied abortions because they were not "sick enough" or close enough to dying to justify the exception.  as for rape, there are so many hoops one has to jump through to qualify, again, its words without actual meaning.  the words are in there, but no one follows it and the politicians know it.  

Yeah, I get that, but I wonder if anyone has asked any of these anti-abortion rights people who allow exceptions how they can allow exceptions if abortion is murder. I realize that these people (or most of them) know the exceptions are a sham, like you said, just to make the law palatable. But if the question were posed to these people, how would they respond?

[Shrek]

1 hour ago, peeayebee said:

Yeah, I get that, but I wonder if anyone has asked any of these anti-abortion rights people who allow exceptions how they can allow exceptions if abortion is murder. I realize that these people (or most of them) know the exceptions are a sham, like you said, just to make the law palatable. But if the question were posed to these people, how would they respond?

They will tell you that somebody else put that clause in & that they personally would not allow any exceptions given the choice. 

The problem with these people is that you cannot reason with them no matter what you say, their mind is made up and that's the end of it. 

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Shrek said:

The problem with these people is that you cannot reason with them no matter what you say, their mind is made up and that's the end of it. 

You really can't.

[buttersister]

I’ve told not-voters to go protect Roe v Wade since the 70s, so my head’s past exploding.
 

Quote

 Imay have to cast a vote of my own at some point :p.

I think John crashed their website last night. 😉

[peeayebee]

I voted, but it took forever to get my email with the verification code. Well, not FOREVER. More like a couple of hours.

[Irlandesa]

4 hours ago, Hanahope said:

they put in the "exception" to make the law more palatable, but in reality, its not enforced.  there are stories about women being denied abortions because they were not "sick enough" or close enough to dying to justify the exception. 

Yep.  Sometimes it's not just up to the OBGYN or doctor to make a decision about whether or not a woman's life is sufficiently in danger but up to a whole care team.  And if even one care team member doesn't think the mother's life is sufficiently in danger or doesn't feel strongly that their opinion would withstand a separate panel that reviews the decisions to determine if a law was broken, the life-saving procedure can end up not being approved.

5 hours ago, ALenore said:

I read an article about Idaho, and apparently a lot of OB/GYNs are leaving the state because they don't want to deal with not being able to provide proper care to pregnant women.

It's not just Idaho.  I believe I read a similar story about North Dakota. 

I'm glad John did this but there's a whole lot about this and I don't know if we'll fully understand the full repercussions of not having the right to an abortion. He could have done a whole hour on this.

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Irlandesa

[JustHereForFood]

5 hours ago, Hanahope said:

they put in the "exception" to make the law more palatable, but in reality, its not enforced.  there are stories about women being denied abortions because they were not "sick enough" or close enough to dying to justify the exception.  as for rape, there are so many hoops one has to jump through to qualify, again, its words without actual meaning.  the words are in there, but no one follows it and the politicians know it.  

I was never brave enough to search what requirements women must meet to get an exception for rape. I mean, if it was enough to just say that they were raped, everyone could do it. So I'm afraid it might count only if they reported it at the time or something equally horrifying.

 

3 hours ago, Shrek said:

They will tell you that somebody else put that clause in & that they personally would not allow any exceptions given the choice. 

The problem with these people is that you cannot reason with them no matter what you say, their mind is made up and that's the end of it. 

Until they or their child need to get an abortion. Then, of course, they will argue that they have a good reason for it.

[heatherchandler]

4 hours ago, peeayebee said:

Yeah, I get that, but I wonder if anyone has asked any of these anti-abortion rights people who allow exceptions how they can allow exceptions if abortion is murder. I realize that these people (or most of them) know the exceptions are a sham, like you said, just to make the law palatable. But if the question were posed to these people, how would they respond?

It has been explained to me that it is like killing someone in cold blood vs self defense.  I’m not saying I agree.  

[Annber03]

38 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

Until they or their child need to get an abortion. Then, of course, they will argue that they have a good reason for it.

Or their mistress. Look at all the stories we've heard about people who'll stand there publicly wanting to ban abortion while privately paying for abortions in an attempt to keep the fact they're having an affair under wraps, or because they're happy to sleep with these women, but don't want the responsibility of actually having to be financially responsible for any babies that come from it. They'll expect the women to take responsibility, of course, but them? Never. 

6 hours ago, peeayebee said:

I've read stories about/interviews with women who WANTED their babies but had health problems arise or the fetuses showed fatal developmental problems, just like the woman we saw here. It is heartbreaking. They don't want to have abortions, but they don't want their babies to suffer, nor do they want to suffer themselves. It's absolutely awful.

God, this. People against abortion just seem to think that this is a decision made by a woman who simply got knocked up and just decided, "Oh, I don't want the baby, I'm gonna abort it!" and...no*. Your example is a VERY common one. And then there's also the people who were anti-abortion...right up until the time they had to make that choice, and guess what? They suddenly weren't so anti-abortion anymore. 

*And even with the women who do choose to abort for that reason...so what? They're making the responsible decision that works best for them. They know they're not financially/emotionally/mentally able to care for a kid right now, so they're taking the necessary steps to stop that before it happens. I'd rather someone do that than be forced to carry a pregnancy and wind up with a child they clearly didn't want. How is that a good life for a child? 

(To say nothing of how it's not the sort of choice that women make on the spur of the moment in a totally casual, flippant manner, but...yeah.)

6 hours ago, ALenore said:

Also, in that same article, the reported asked a legislator what help the government was going to provide to poor mothers who couldn't afford to care for their children. The legislators response: "That's for churches to deal with."

Sigh...  Yes, because we've seen how much sympathy poor women who need help often tend to receive. 

12 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

I second everyone's frustration over these laws being passed by men who will never get pregnant* and also by people with no medical expertise. Could there at least be a rule that in order to talk about reproductive rights at all, one has to know some basic facts and pass a test? Like, just the stuff that should be covered in biology and sex education at least. And maybe some test on basic empathy.

Yes. Take a test that shows that you not only read the material, but can actually understand and explain it. If you fail, you don't get to have a say.

Hell, I'd love to go one step further and say that any politician who comes to office with the sole purpose of trying to strip people of basic civil/human rights, that should be grounds to remove them from office for good. I would love to make it so that no politician can ever be allowed to try and pass these kinds of insane laws ever again, and if they do try, they face consequences for doing so. 

Quote

Seriously, why is it so hard for people to understand that limiting or banning abortion doesn't make it go away, it just makes it less safe. 

That's the part that gets me. Mass shooting that kills children - "Well, we can't ban or restrict guns, people will just find ways around those laws anyway!" But apparently nobody will ever find ways around abortion bans and restrictions? 

12 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Just goes to show you not all heroes wear capes. 🫡

I also loved that bit because it reminded me of the stories I've read where some religious individuals/organizations have tried to take the abortion bans to court on the grounds that those bans violate their personal religious beliefs. Which is an interesting angle to take - might as well fight fire with fire, right? 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Annber03

[purist]

On 11/6/2023 at 3:54 PM, Annber03 said:

I wasn't just screaming during this segment, I was also flipping off my TV a LOT. Stay the hell out of our goddamn bodies, people, good lord. 

Preach! I wanted to give John and the LWT team a prolonged standing ovation for the main segment. It was outstanding.

Edited to add: I really appreciated John not saying 'women' when he was referring to people who can get pregnant. It's a subtle but important recognition of the fact that non-binary and trans people can get pregnant too.

Edited November 7, 2023 by purist

[andromeda331]

9 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Or their mistress. Look at all the stories we've heard about people who'll stand there publicly wanting to ban abortion while privately paying for abortions in an attempt to keep the fact they're having an affair under wraps, or because they're happy to sleep with these women, but don't want the responsibility of actually having to be financially responsible for any babies that come from it. They'll expect the women to take responsibility, of course, but them? Never. 

That's what I would love to know. How many anti-abortion people have gotten an abortion or paid for one for their mistress, child, etc. How many in Congress? I'd love that information to get outed. 

Quote

That's the part that gets me. Mass shooting that kills children - "Well, we can't ban or restrict guns, people will just find ways around those laws anyway!" But apparently nobody will ever find ways around abortion bans and restrictions? 

Exactly, people will find a way to get a gun but they'll totally not seek an abortion because it's against the law. Nope, if they can't get to a state that's illegal they will find one who does it illegally in their state. Those are unsafe and dangerous. Or they'll turn to rumors that they heard or find on the internet to take a cleaner or something that supposely will cause an abortion. When Roe vs Wade was passed my grandmother was all for it because of women being butchered in illegal abortions. Now it's going to go back to that. Or like Penny Dirty Dancing.

I really can't see it changing either. In Ireland they changed their abortion laws when a woman died because they had to wait until she was dying to do anything by then it was too late. I can't think of a single death or deaths that would change the laws here. The antiabortion don't care if women died. They'll just say it was her fault anyways. They don't care if the baby dies. They don't care about the ten year old rape victim. The women who's baby died or will die at birth or being in so much pain as it dies. None of that matters. They don't care about of that. 

[Shrek]

Just for fun I put the word "vote" into Google and guess what the 2nd suggestion was, yup votethisbird.com beat almost everything in the goggle search.

[Ceindreadh]

12 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I really can't see it changing either. In Ireland they changed their abortion laws when a woman died because they had to wait until she was dying to do anything by then it was too late. I can't think of a single death or deaths that would change the laws here. The antiabortion don't care if women died. They'll just say it was her fault anyways. They don't care if the baby dies. They don't care about the ten year old rape victim. The women who's baby died or will die at birth or being in so much pain as it dies. None of that matters. They don't care about of that. 

Savita Halappanavar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar

If dead children didn't get gun laws changed, then dead women won't get abortion laws changed in the USA.

[Hanahope]

part of the current problem is that not only do the laws ban abortion, they impose significant prison time for both the woman, anyone helping her and the doctor.  expanding the punishments is how they hope to restrict any ability to go around the law.  and we all know, it really isn't about saving babies, its about controlling women and taking away their rights/autonomy