S45.E04: Music to My Ears

[violet and green]

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

The challenges are always physical now, and have been for quite some time. But they weren't in the beginning. They've just gotten lazy about them. And I honestly can't remember the last time they've cast anyone over 50.

Gabler, 51 (who won his season). Mike Turner, 58, who was runner up in his. Those were recent seasons.

[violet and green]

11 hours ago, SnapHappy said:

Katurah is just the water to his oil.  And he would annoy the crap out of me too.  Her rants are only partially fueled by her emotions.  Everybody knows that the interviewers for the talking heads hammer people with the questions that will advance the pre-written storyline.  And that's "Katurah Despises Bruce". 

It isn't just in her confessionals. It's in her eyes, and it has been evident from episode one.

[JenMcSnark]

4 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I dunno... 

Sifu strikes me as dumb enough to swallow whatever lies he might be fed. So there might be a lie to tell him that would advance Dee's game, or at least to be harmless to Dee.

It could be that Dee tries to put the blame on either J. Maya and Julie for voting Sifu, either saying one of them literally wrote his name down or saying that they were advocating his ouster (which happens to be true).

Telling the truth about writing his name down might come back to bite her in the ass down the road, and it could be a short road. Sifu strikes me as the sort to be reflexively: you wrote my name down that once, so I'm going to do everything I can to get you voted out, even if it's objectively worse for me.

It could be that Julie and J. Maya decide at their next Tribal that they'd rather have Sifu with his goofy but strong self around to give them a shot at a challenge win than Dee, and try to vote Dee out.

If I was Dee, I would claim I did not want anything to do with a player quitting so didn't want to vote for Sean after his speech. 

Also couldn't vote for my girls and knew no one (including Sean and make up some conversation they had if necessary) would vote for Sifu so it was a safe decision to throw my vote on him knowing the others would probably vote for Sean no matter what.

It might even make her seem more credible that Sean voted for her. 

[millennium]

Enough with the cry-babies, Survivor.

I think Sean's drama queen exit is a by-product of the influencer culture we have today, where it's more important to be the center of attention for a few shiny moments and collect your likes and emojis than it is to lean into a long, hard slog.

I was hoping they'd vote him out the instant he showed up at the new camp and crooned, "I've got storieeeez!"

"I'll Be Your Pizza" would have been a better title for the episode.

I originally wanted Stfu to go, but Sean quickly took priority.

Emily and Kaleb seem to be neck-in-neck for the winner's edit.

[Sunnykm]

On 10/19/2023 at 5:49 PM, DEL901 said:

They can only do tribes of 8 or 10.  9 would result in an odd amount of men and women.   

well there is the problem. casting metric.   just cast the best for the show 

[SnapHappy]

15 hours ago, violet and green said:

It isn't just in her confessionals. It's in her eyes, and it has been evident from episode one.

I've really got to invest in a new TV.  I just never seem to see all this "It's in their eyes" that people claim to be able to discern on a view screen.  55" or 65".  Bigger?  HD?  Full High Def?

I don't know a single person in real life that claims that ability either.  Obviously I should get new friends & family too, so I can get this magic TV sight.   *LOL*

[jaigurudeva]

20 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

I feel like between losing his spot as one of the top dogs on Lulu and the tribe shuffle where he drew the worst hand, he did the math and thought this would be the least embarrassing way to be voted out.

The math isn't mathing because it was way more embarrassing than trying to stay in the game and at least playing his shot in the dark, which Jeff pulled out of his ass just for situations like these so the odd person out still has a fighting chance. But quitting is quitting, it's lame even if you try to wax poetic about your loved ones being your "real adventure." Bro, this isn't "Up," it's a game show you applied to be on, so play the game.

I think Jeff is partly to blame, though, he has to stop trying to push the conversation at TC towards, "Who is definitely on the outs here?" and "What do you have to say if this is your last time here?" Like he's trying to get soundbites of how ~transformative~ the Survivor experience is, but it basically puts the bottom contestants in that "loser" mindset, and they just start looking for a way to bow out instead of scrambling to stick around.

The worst part is I don't think it was even a sure thing that Sean was going home walking into TC. D and J still seemed to be leaning towards Sifu until Sean started begging to be voted out. He should've leveraged being that extra vote, the same way Emily did when she swapped over in order to get into a new alliance. I wonder if the producers can put some kind of stipulation that if you quit (including soft quitting/asking people to vote you out) it's considered breaking the contract and you gotta pay x amount in damages or something. At least then if you want out without having to pay for your own ticket outta there, you have to start pissing people off and put a target on your own back, which would be much more entertaining than just listening to one more contestant whine at TC, "This isn't fun anymore, can I go home now?"

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, jaigurudeva said:

I wonder if the producers can put some kind of stipulation that if you quit (including soft quitting/asking people to vote you out) it's considered breaking the contract and you gotta pay x amount in damages or something.

…or forfeit your stipend, at a minimum.

[millennium]

3 hours ago, jaigurudeva said:

I wonder if the producers can put some kind of stipulation that if you quit (including soft quitting/asking people to vote you out) it's considered breaking the contract and you gotta pay x amount in damages or something.

Or if you quit Survivor, you are automatically dropped into Naked and Afraid.

[violet and green]

4 hours ago, SnapHappy said:

I've really got to invest in a new TV.  I just never seem to see all this "It's in their eyes" that people claim to be able to discern on a view screen.  55" or 65".  Bigger?  HD?  Full High Def?

I don't know a single person in real life that claims that ability either.  Obviously I should get new friends & family too, so I can get this magic TV sight.   *LOL*

You've actually never noticed anyone glare, or roll their eyes? You've never seen anger in anyone's eyes, or sadness either? Gosh.

 

[Blissfool]

On 10/20/2023 at 10:23 AM, LeDucDiableBleu said:

"When you were a kid and your parents made you toast, did they scrape off the burnt bits and still give it to you, or throw it out and make a new one?" -possible question to weed out potential players. I swear it seems like some of these people have never had one second of uncomfortableness in their entire lives.

When I was a kid, I didn't like to eat the crust of my bread/toast. My dad would not let me leave the table until my crust was eaten. I think this means I might win Survivor!

FWIW, I know what you mean and I agree.

[SnapHappy]

4 hours ago, violet and green said:

You've actually never noticed anyone glare, or roll their eyes? You've never seen anger in anyone's eyes, or sadness either? Gosh.

Yeah, to me those all pretty much involve most of the rest of the face, too.  Not too difficult to spot those. 

[violet and green]

2 hours ago, SnapHappy said:

Yeah, to me those all pretty much involve most of the rest of the face, too.  Not too difficult to spot those. 

Well, you really are shifting the bar here. But outside of her confessionals, I have noticed all sorts of expressive eye movements. Side-eyeing Bruce when in group shots. Silent reactions while appearing to listen to Bruce mansplaining. Slight bugging of her eyes in response to same. Wearing a semblance of a social smile, while in a group, but reacting with disbelief in her eyes. Dubious eyes, while trying to paste on a smile, ditto. Plus the multiple confessions about how annoying Bruce is, and at the same time what a threat Bruce is, and how her tribe are idiots for being sucked in by Bruce's "crazy uncle" antics.

And I'm not the only one who has noticed her obsession with Bruce. Kellie, who she is in a women's alliance with, mentioned to one of her other allies, Brando, after Katurah approached her and insisted they target Bruce: "She's a little scary."

 

[millennium]

Bruce is an attention whore.   The new tribe arrives on their beach, ready for a fresh start, and what does Bruce do?  Plops down crying, making it all about himself.

Don't bring me down, Bruce.

He's sucking up all the oxygen in the tribe.  I don't blame Katurah for being fed up with the guy.   He banged his head and was medically evacuated -- so what?   If I had performed so ineptly on day one and by some miracle was given a second chance to redeem myself, I sure as heck would not be throwing my own little pity party way to remind other players how clumsy and self-absorbed I am.

[violet and green]

Deeply annoying. Not worth tanking your game over, though.

[Nashville]

48 minutes ago, millennium said:

Bruce is an attention whore.   The new tribe arrives on their beach, ready for a fresh start, and what does Bruce do?  Plops down crying, making it all about himself.

Don't bring me down, Bruce.

He's sucking up all the oxygen in the tribe.  I don't blame Katurah for being fed up with the guy.   He banged his head and was medically evacuated -- so what?   If I had performed so ineptly on day one and by some miracle was given a second chance to redeem myself, I sure as heck would not be throwing my own little pity party way to remind other players how clumsy and self-absorbed I am.

Sorry; I’m not personally a major Bruce fan myself, it is crystal clear you have an extensive dislike for the ground upon which Bruce walks, and I generally don’t have a problem with letting others fly their venom freak flag freely - but to say Bruce’s original Survivor tenure was cut short by his own ineptitude is a gross misstatement of fact.

Bruce’s injury was caused by a game obstacle so poorly designed as to border on the egregious; i.e., a central support beam transected the lower decking in such a manner as to protrude several inches down into what would be considered the “player’s zone” of movement.  This appallingly hazardous design was pretty much guaranteed to injure the first player to (both figuratively AND literally) run into it; Bruce simply happened to be that day’s “winner” of a “prize” nobody wanted.

[SVNBob]

And TBF to Bruce, I don't think he was playing to the camera with that breakdown.  Other times, like his "comedy" at his departure for the Journey, I absolutely agree he is and it can be extra.  But not that time.

Because it was entirely possible for Bruce to play through the whole season and not set foot back on that beach.  He could have been swapped to Reba or stayed at Belo.  Or there may have been no swap at all.  Plus who knows which beach will be the merge one.  And that's all assuming he survives to Mergatory in the first place.

 

But the Fickle Finger of Fate dictated that he got swapped to the tribe that happened to be at the same location as Tika, the scenes of the worst moments of his Survivor tenure, and probably one of the scariest moments in his life, full stop.  I do not blame him for having an emotional reaction at returning there.

Besides, if he'd planned anything for the possibility of being on that same beach, it probably would have been more dad-jokes (and probably jokes about bad luck if that had been his first tribal beach again) and not a crying jag.

[violet and green]

Exactly. It wasn't a minor injury. He didn't just, as Katurah depicted in her cut-up monologue, "bump his head." He was concussed, taken out of the game, and spent time in hospital. It would have been scary and very disappointing, and something he would have relived once taken out of the game, and his emotions around it are understandable. I can see how he is being annoying in other instances, but he's also got a positive energy the others appreciate.

Anyway, I am looking forward to the inevitable showdown in new Lulu.

[millennium]

Maybe it's because I'm a die-hard Challenge fan, a competition where multiple players have been seriously injured and medically evacuated over the years (one even lost his spleen).   Thing is, they don't come back and cry about it.  (The exception being a young woman named Katy who jumped, slammed her head into a wooden decking and dropped 30 feet into water.   She cried when she came back in a later season, but only because she was faced with doing a similar heights/water challenge.)

But Survivor's all about the crying and the personal journeys, so I guess Bruce is a good fit.

Edited October 22, 2023 by millennium

[SnapHappy]

7 hours ago, violet and green said:

Well, you really are shifting the bar here. But outside of her confessionals, I have noticed all sorts of expressive eye movements. Side-eyeing Bruce when in group shots. Silent reactions while appearing to listen to Bruce mansplaining. Slight bugging of her eyes in response to same. Wearing a semblance of a social smile, while in a group, but reacting with disbelief in her eyes. Dubious eyes, while trying to paste on a smile, ditto. Plus the multiple confessions about how annoying Bruce is, and at the same time what a threat Bruce is, and how her tribe are idiots for being sucked in by Bruce's "crazy uncle" antics.

And I'm not the only one who has noticed her obsession with Bruce. Kellie, who she is in a women's alliance with, mentioned to one of her other allies, Brando, after Katurah approached her and insisted they target Bruce: "She's a little scary."

 

Not being a therapist or even somebody who's particularly interested the behaviors of these perfect strangers, I've completely lost interest. 

I'm done here.

[GenerationX]

With the notable exception of Kaleb, this is the most unlikable cast in the history of the show.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, GenerationX said:

With the notable exception of Kaleb, this is the most unlikable cast in the history of the show.

That's still gotta be Gabon.

Edited October 22, 2023 by tracyscott76

[Chicago Redshirt]

18 hours ago, GenerationX said:

With the notable exception of Kaleb, this is the most unlikable cast in the history of the show.

I'd say, give it time. We've spent the bulk of time on the Lulu lemons and not a ton to get to know the other players. While I share a fraction of Jeff's disdain for quitters, none of them have been actively dislikeable in my opinion.

Emily seemed horrific on first introduction, an obnoxious unnecessarily antagonistic try-hard at a minimum and a possible/probable racist at worst.

This episode I...kind of liked her? Has the world turned upside down? Is this editing trickery? Has Emily experienced the personal growth(tm) that Peachy always tries to boast Survivor is really about? If so, will that personal growth continue, or while Emily slip back into her previous ways?

Anyway, besides maybe her and Bruce, there's no one that rankles me ATM. 

Of course, things could change for the worse and people I'm currently neutral toward can get to be grating.

[fishcakes]

18 hours ago, GenerationX said:

With the notable exception of Kaleb, this is the most unlikable cast in the history of the show.

My vote is for Worlds Apart. I can't imagine a more despicable group of people will ever play this game.

This season's cast seems more pathetic to me than unlikable. If we get one or even two more players quitting, I wouldn't be that surprised.

[HurricaneVal]

On 10/21/2023 at 2:17 PM, millennium said:

Or if you quit Survivor, you are automatically dropped into Naked and Afraid.

This?  Is brilliant.  No all expenses paid vacation in a South Pacific paradise for quitters...you get dropped into the remote Amazonian rainforest with a machete, a cooking pot, and an asshole.

My idea was that Survivor quitters get sequestered with a production assistant and no access to internet or phone at a Holiday Inn next to a Denny's somewhere completely unremarkable like Tulsa or Bismark to wait out the filming. 

[jsm1125]

On 10/22/2023 at 4:42 PM, GenerationX said:

With the notable exception of Kaleb, this is the most unlikable cast in the history of the show.

I kind of like Kendra, Dee, J. Maya and Julie. And Austin and Brando also seem fine. 

[Lantern7]

Erik's take on the episode, "Fish Fry":

[dancingdreamer]

On 10/19/2023 at 12:03 AM, Skooma said:

I agree something is radically wrong with her.  She seems to have this totally irrational hatred of Bruce and projects any little thing he does as the end of the world.  I hope she gets voted out next.

Can you provide a link?  That would be a major change and one that could SPOIL a season immediately so I find it hard to believe. 

Actually remove "could" and change to WOULD spoil a season's results immediately.  Something that could tank ratings so I can't believe they would do that.

Survivor used to send pre-jury on little trips to Australia or elsewhere or just shuttled them to another location once Ponderosa became the jury house. 

I know CBS has a big house they use to sequester people from time to time and where the BB jury is sent to.  I think The Amazing Race uses it now to sequester early eliminated teams rather than in an overseas hotel like they used to but I could have that wrong.

And that house in the US so maybe that is what you mean by "home" as in sequestered in the US and not Fiji?

I thought  I read it, due to budget restrictions,  no more travel. So I guess Sean will just go to Ponderosa. Are they  there at the end ? Or is it just the jury, maybe once  the jury is voted off, they are kept apart? 

 

https://ew.com/tv/survivor-jeff-probst-jury-members-sequestered/

 

[DEL901]

4 hours ago, dancingdreamer said:

I thought  I read it, due to budget restrictions,  no more travel. So I guess Sean will just go to Ponderosa. Are they  there at the end ? Or is it just the jury, maybe once  the jury is voted off, they are kept apart? 

 

https://ew.com/tv/survivor-jeff-probst-jury-members-sequestered/

 

I’ve read that when the jury begins, all the initial rejects get sent home as a group.  

[Nashville]

2 hours ago, DEL901 said:

I’ve read that when the jury begins, all the initial rejects get sent home as a group.  

I believe the pre-jurors getting sent home as a group instead of doing a tour around southern Asia for a couple of weeks has been the policy since Covid.

Not to mention, this production group will cut costs wherever it can.  😄

[azshadowwalker]

On 10/19/2023 at 12:11 AM, OutOfTheQuestion said:

Beyond casting, the show itself has to take some blame in this.  They go out of their way to make it harder (fewer clothes, limited flint, limited rice) on the players because CBS is too cheap to pay for a 36-day season anymore.  Then they arrange the original Lulu to be very obviously the weakest of the three tribes, to the point that an 0-3 streak seemed almost likely.  So by just nine days in, no wonder it has to at least a couple of people being broken already.

Harder? I wonder what these people would have done in the early days when it was really hard.

[jsm1125]

15 hours ago, azshadowwalker said:

Harder? I wonder what these people would have done in the early days when it was really hard.

Didn’t a few contestants get hats and sunglasses in the first 6 or seasons?

[SummerDreams]

Late watcher, sorry.

Kaleb and Emily get a lot of screentime for two people who have not won any immunity challenges. I don't forget Carolyn, Yum Yum and Carson were in the exact same position last season.

Dee showed her true colors, she is a real b@#$. She didn't respect Sean's request to leave the game.

Another quitter? What is going on with the casting people this season? Can you explain to people that they are applying for freaking Survivor?

I'm glad Julie got what she wanted and that Sifu knows now that things were not as they seemed. Hopefully he will do something about it.

Purple Brando, I feel bad for you man. You seem like a great guy.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, SummerDreams said:

Dee showed her true colors, she is a real b@#$. She didn't respect Sean's request to leave the game.

Another quitter? What is going on with the casting people this season? Can you explain to people that they are applying for freaking Survivor?

If Sean is such a lame quitter, why should Dee respect his request to leave the game? How does that make her a bitch? She made the choice to still play her game the way she wanted, regardless of Sean's flameout, and good for her! Granted, that vote caused her some trouble afterwards, but it has nothing to do with "showing her true colors"

[awaken]

Um, yam yam?

[SummerDreams]

4 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

If Sean is such a lame quitter, why should Dee respect his request to leave the game? How does that make her a bitch? She made the choice to still play her game the way she wanted, regardless of Sean's flameout, and good for her! Granted, that vote caused her some trouble afterwards, but it has nothing to do with "showing her true colors"

It was not game anymore at that point. It was a request from person to person.

[Nashville]

34 minutes ago, SummerDreams said:

It was not game anymore at that point. It was a request from person to person.

Maybe it wasn’t game to Sean any more at that point, but it certainly was to everybody else - so why are the other players under any obligation to sideline their stratagems because Sean decided to pick up his marbles and go home?

[SummerDreams]

3 hours ago, Nashville said:

Maybe it wasn’t game to Sean any more at that point, but it certainly was to everybody else - so why are the other players under any obligation to sideline their stratagems because Sean decided to pick up his marbles and go home?

Because a) they are firstly humans and then players and b) Survivor is a social game; Dee's loss might have been bigger by keeping Sean while he is begging her to evict him than by respecting his request.

People don't forget how one makes them feel. And if Sean had stayed because of Dee, he would feel very bad, sad and humiliated, plus he would have witnessed first hand that he was just a pawn to remove Sifu and not an equal member of the tribe. And a bitter player is a dangerous one.

[Guest]

None of that makes Dee a bitch. Isn't she firstly a human, too? Why call her a name for simply casting her vote as she felt she should? And I think Sean was already well aware that he was just a pawn to remove Sifu and not a member of the tribe. That's partly why he asked to be voted out, as he's admitted in interviews. He felt his position in the game was hopeless

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by tracyscott76

[seacliffsal]

Sean could have just quit if it was so important for him to leave the game.  He wanted to quit but to have it labeled as being voted out.  He made the decision to play and he made the decision to leave.  Nobody else has to follow his lead.  However, in an interview I read, he stated that maybe he made the wrong decision to ask to be voted out (I read the interview on this site, either in the media or his thread, so that's as much of a reference I am making).  Hannah basically made the same decision and she told her tribe to either vote her out or she would quit.  Players who want to leave absolutely have the right to do so.  Players who want to vote according to what is best for their own game also have the right to do so IMO.  Yes, they are all humans, but they all have their own motivations.  And, if someone was seriously injured or mentally breaking down (Kathy [I think], Brandon) the show takes them out or arranges immediate voting to get them out, but Jeff does intervene.

[SummerDreams]

2 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

None of that makes Dee a bitch. Isn't she firstly a human, too? Why call her a name for simply casting her vote as she felt she should?

 

Alright so maybe Dee is not a bitch but her behavior seemed bitchy to me. Sorry for calling her that.

[Guest]

Just now, SummerDreams said:

Alright so maybe Dee is not a bitch but her behavior seemed bitchy to me. Sorry for calling her that.

Agree to disagree on whether or not her behavior seemed bitchy, but I appreciate your apology on the name-calling 👍

[Nashville]

19 minutes ago, SummerDreams said:

Alright so maybe Dee is not a bitch but her behavior seemed bitchy to me. Sorry for calling her that.

Instead of “bitchy”, maybe a better term would be “excessively strategic”. 😄

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 11/5/2023 at 9:21 AM, SummerDreams said:

Late watcher, sorry.

Kaleb and Emily get a lot of screentime for two people who have not won any immunity challenges. I don't forget Carolyn, Yum Yum and Carson were in the exact same position last season.

Immunity challenges aren't necessarily a good criteria for who should get screen time. Being interesting or doing interesting/funny/impactful things is, and winning challenges is just one way in which people can be interesting or do interesting/impactful things.

If anything, winning immunity challenges should be a way to decrease the amount of time one should get shown because those people are not subject to being voted out, and so don't have to do the same amount of scrambling at tribal as the rest. 

Kaleb and Emily have had the potential for elimination probably more than any other Survivors this year AND they are (at least judging from this forum) interesting and provocative, so of course they will get more coverage. 

Does that mean that they will make it to the final TC? Not necessarily. Shan from a couple seasons back was excessively covered and even got her own musical sting. Then she was ousted.

[SummerDreams]

48 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Immunity challenges aren't necessarily a good criteria for who should get screen time. Being interesting or doing interesting/funny/impactful things is, and winning challenges is just one way in which people can be interesting or do interesting/impactful things.

If anything, winning immunity challenges should be a way to decrease the amount of time one should get shown because those people are not subject to being voted out, and so don't have to do the same amount of scrambling at tribal as the rest. 

Kaleb and Emily have had the potential for elimination probably more than any other Survivors this year AND they are (at least judging from this forum) interesting and provocative, so of course they will get more coverage. 

Does that mean that they will make it to the final TC? Not necessarily. Shan from a couple seasons back was excessively covered and even got her own musical sting. Then she was ousted.

I don't disagree but in this episode the tribes switched and neither Emily nor Kaleb lost the immunity challenge. There was no reason to have more screen time than many people combined unless they make it really far. Also I think they have made the editing way better after Shan's season and after winner Erica was purple for like 8 episodes.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, SummerDreams said:

I don't disagree but in this episode the tribes switched and neither Emily nor Kaleb lost the immunity challenge. There was no reason to have more screen time than many people combined unless they make it really far. Also I think they have made the editing way better after Shan's season and after winner Erica was purple for like 8 episodes.

They continued to focus on Kaleb and Emily because, like Sean, who they also focused on, they were the only former Lulu on their respective tribes. They wanted to show how each of them were doing integrating into their new tribes. That's pretty standard for a merge episode. While clearly not everyone loves them, a lot of people got invested or at least interested in Kaleb and Emily over the course of the "Lulu sucks" part of the season, so it made sense not to abandon them in the narrative.

Edited November 8, 2023 by tracyscott76

[SummerDreams]

8 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

They continued to focus on Kaleb and Emily because, like Sean, who they also focused on, they were the only former Lulu on their respective tribes.

Sean's tribe lost the immunity challenge and he left the game, the editing focusing on him is not the same as focusing on Emily and Kaleb.

Anyway I think other people should get more screen time because it becomes obvious Kaleb and Emily go far and I don't like to be spoiled by the editing and it's also not fair for other people who are equal Survivor players to be ignored like that. In my opinion everyone should have a story, even if that story is cut short, because every one of these players were chosen by hundreds maybe thousands who applied by the producers and it's owed to them to have their story shown. If producers think someone is boring, why did they cast them?