Bodies - General Discussion

[AnimeMania]

Bodies is a Supernatural/Thriller/Mystery/Police Procedural TV Series with all 8 episodes released on October 19, 2023 on Netflix. The show is based on the 2015 Bodies graphic novel by Si Spencer from DC Comics/Vertigo. 

What if the same dead body, turned up at the same place (Longharvest Lane in London's East End), at four different time periods (1890, 1941, 2023 & 2053)? All the clues seem to point to one person Elias Mannix, the four detectives must somehow collaborate and uncover a conspiracy spanning over 150 years that could put hundreds of thousands of lives at stake. 

Kyle Soller as DI Alfred Hillinghead, a by-the-book detective inspector living in 1890

Jacob Fortune-Lloyd as DS Charlie Whiteman, a morally dubious detective sergeant in 1941 London 

Amaka Okafor as DS Shahara Hasan, a dedicated, sometimes rash detective sergeant living in 2023

Shira Haas as DC Iris Maplewood, a savvy detective living in 2053

Stephen Graham as Elias Mannix/Julian Harker, an enigmatic political leader, the founder of authoritarian group The Executive

Gabriel Howell as Young Elias Mannix

Tom Mothersdale as Gabriel Defoe, a leader in quantum gravity theory, aka time travel

Synnøve Karlsen as Polly

George Parker as Henry Ashe

Michael Jibson as DCI Jack Barber

[AnimeMania]

[krankydoodle]

The graphic novel this is based on has a shockingly low rating on Goodreads. Not all of it worked for me, especially the ending, but I think it deserves higher than a 2.87. The show looks like it deviates from the source material somewhat, so I'll watch it if only to see if what they've changed.

[AnimeMania]

‘Bodies’ Review: Netflix’s Sharply Acted Time-Travel Series Does Justice to Its Wild Premise

Bodies      October 19, 2023        Netflix  

Episodes 1-8        Titles and Descriptions   

Spoiler

S01.E01: You’re Dead Already

In 2023, Detective Hasan discovers a dead body in Longharvest Lane, Whitechapel — while in 1941 and 1890, two other detectives find the same corpse.

S01.E02: Do You Know Who I Am?

Hasan follows new leads in the present. As Hillinghead reluctantly closes his case, Whiteman goes to desperate lengths to hide involvement in his own.

S01.E03: All In Good Time

Connections between the cases start to come into focus. Whiteman encounters an unexpected complication; Hillinghead attends a séance.

S01.E04: Right Up The Wazoo

Hasan discovers she isn't the only detective investigating a murder on Longharvest Lane. In the past and future alike, relationships start to deepen.

S01.E05: We Are One Another’s Ghosts

The past, present and future collide as a set of fingerprints from 1890 are found in 2023. Maplewood uncovers the Commander's true identity.

S01.E06: The World Is Yours

On the day of the explosion, Hasan does everything in her power to help Elias make a life-altering choice. The others wrestle with their consciences.

S01.E07: Catch Me If You Can
Elias finally knows what it means to be loved. He creates the family he's always wanted — but Hillinghead has to suffer for it.

S01.E08: Know You Are Loved

(Season Finale)
Across decades, the detectives work together to stop Elias from reshaping history. Will words be enough to break the loop and save thousands of lives?

[cardigirl]

Two episodes in, and I'm enjoying it. I'm not familiar with the graphic novel it's based on, so I'm not comparing the show to that. I like all the switches back and forth between the different times. 

[DMK]

If somebody ever tells me “know you are loved,” I’m gonna run like hell.

[Bill1978]

3 episodes in and I am truly intrigued with where this is all heading and how each timeline is going to connect with each other.

Episode 1 did a very good job in setting up the mystery, the lights exploding when the body was dumped reminded me of a similar thing happening in Dark. Have to admit I didn't enjoy either of the autopsy scenes. 

Episode 2 delivered the right amount of crazy conspiracy nuts to keep me hooked with what was happening and where the story is going. and Episode 3 finally started dropping evidence of how the timelines are going to be linked. Just hoping Henry isn't part of the time travel conspiracy.

At the moment, the WWII storyline, is the least interesting for me. Mainly because it feels like a mob storyline, and I'm not a fan of that style of storytelling.

Between this, Loki and Dark (for the first time), seems I'm currently in a bit of a time travel obsession. And at the moment, I'm enjoying the fact that the timeline isn't as complicated as Dark - but that could all change once the story starts to follow any actual time travellers. At least at the moment I don't need to pause any episode to look up who is connected to who and in which timeline haha.

Edited October 22, 2023 by Bill1978

[DMK]

I finished this last night, so here goes:

One, this reminds me a lot of 12 Monkeys (which, if anyone hasn’t watched that series, please remedy that, it’s awesome) with some Terminator, no clothing or tech can go through time, added on. I wish they explained why The Throat writes łłł on the travelers, though. I mean it worked great as a symbol on the messages left through time but why did the machine write it in the first place?

Loved it, though. The writing and direction were great, acting too. I also had to look away for some of the autopsy scenes. A little TOO gross, no thanks. 

I really liked when Hasan finally picked up the thread of the previous cases. I was so surprised to find that it was Polly in the WWI scenes, poisoning Esther. Of all the lives Mannix destroys in his loop, I felt the worst for Polly, her life is completely ruined by it all, her father murdered and discredited, brainwashed and having her soul totally destroyed so Mannix could have his broodmare and be his own great-grandfather. Does that mean he doesn’t have the Delta brainwave? (Futurama reference)

The final scene perplexed me: why was Maplewood driving a cab in present day? This was billeted as a limited series, which leads me to believe there’s not supposed to be a season 2 so I feel like I’m missing something. 

[Bill1978]

Quick question. Apart from being a cool plot device, why did Hillinghead carve his name and the symbol on the brick? I am only up to Episode 5 so if it's explained in 5-8 I'm happy to wait, if not, I'm really confused to why he did this.

[Paloma]

On 10/22/2023 at 12:14 PM, DMK said:

The final scene perplexed me: why was Maplewood driving a cab in present day?

The time travel theory in this show seemed to be that you split into different bodies or versions of yourself at least momentarily when you go into The Throat, though presumably those different bodies/versions are recombined by the time they reach their destination. But maybe they don't always recombine and two or more bodies/versions can end up in different time periods. 

[DMK]

2 hours ago, Paloma said:

The time travel theory in this show seemed to be that you split into different bodies or versions of yourself at least momentarily when you go into The Throat, though presumably those different bodies/versions are recombined by the time they reach their destination. But maybe they don't always recombine and two or more bodies/versions can end up in different time periods. 

I thought of that, that’s why there were many copies of Defoe’s body getting dropped through time. But once teenage Mannix broke the loop and didn’t set off the bomb, he disappeared, future Hasan disappeared, no Defoe bodies dropped, thus there should be no Maplewood copies either. 

[Paloma]

7 hours ago, DMK said:

9 hours ago, Paloma said:

The time travel theory in this show seemed to be that you split into different bodies or versions of yourself at least momentarily when you go into The Throat, though presumably those different bodies/versions are recombined by the time they reach their destination. But maybe they don't always recombine and two or more bodies/versions can end up in different time periods. 

I thought of that, that’s why there were many copies of Defoe’s body getting dropped through time. But once teenage Mannix broke the loop and didn’t set off the bomb, he disappeared, future Hasan disappeared, no Defoe bodies dropped, thus there should be no Maplewood copies either. 

You're right, it doesn't make sense. The only other explanation that I can think of is that the taxi driver in 2023 is Iris's mother (or future mother). But that wouldn't explain why she seemed to look identical to Iris, down to the bangs, or why the final shot was her face rather than Hasan's face. Maybe the writer/director was just messing with our minds.

[DMK]

42 minutes ago, Paloma said:

You're right, it doesn't make sense. The only other explanation that I can think of is that the taxi driver in 2023 is Iris's mother (or future mother). But that wouldn't explain why she seemed to look identical to Iris, down to the bangs, or why the final shot was her face rather than Hasan's face. Maybe the writer/director was just messing with our minds.

It’s definitely Iris. The only things I can possibly think of is that it’s either a whole new loop or the tech she had on her back to walk caused a glitch in which she didn’t disappear like everyone else. Which sucks for the 1890 copy of her, if that’s the case. 

[Paloma]

11 minutes ago, DMK said:

It’s definitely Iris. The only things I can possibly think of is that it’s either a whole new loop or the tech she had on her back to walk caused a glitch in which she didn’t disappear like everyone else. Which sucks for the 1890 copy of her, if that’s the case. 

I think that just before she went into The Throat she said "I'm going to die there, aren't I?" (referring to her 1890 destination). But she expected to get there alive so she could do something to change the loop (telling the detective the truth about Harker and what was going to happen). She probably assumed that after contacting the detective she would live the rest of her life in 1890 and that she couldn't come back to 2053 or go to another time.

I like your idea about the tech on her back causing a glitch that prevented her from disappearing. And maybe the same glitch caused two versions of her to appear in two different time periods. If she appeared in 2023 naked and unable to walk, maybe someone called an ambulance and she was taken to a hospital, where she was helped with 2023 technology such as leg braces. But it still seems unlikely she could get a job driving a taxi with that kind of disability. 

[Paloma]

I just found an "ending explained" article that seems to support my original idea of a body splitting and ending up in more than one time period, though this explanation refers to Defoe: When Mannix shows up at The Throat in 2053, "Maplewood, who still thinks she’s on the side of justice, allows him to step inside The Throat to head to 1890. Defoe jumps in after him, and Maplewood shoots Defoe. Because she shoots him as he’s splitting into a different timeline, his body ends up in four different years."

Here's a link to the whole article, which I found helpful: https://www.netflix.com/tudum/articles/bodies-ending-explainer

[calvinshobbes]

The producers wanted to leave an opening in case they get a second season like squid game did. Defoe is alive and can still create the throat so maplewood can still go back to present day as there is still some kind of threat to London. 

[Emmybean]

Is there the possibility of more than one Elias in other years as well?

[DMK]

3 hours ago, Paloma said:

I think that just before she went into The Throat she said "I'm going to die there, aren't I?" (referring to her 1890 destination). But she expected to get there alive so she could do something to change the loop (telling the detective the truth about Harker and what was going to happen). She probably assumed that after contacting the detective she would live the rest of her life in 1890 and that she couldn't come back to 2053 or go to another time.

I like your idea about the tech on her back causing a glitch that prevented her from disappearing. And maybe the same glitch caused two versions of her to appear in two different time periods. If she appeared in 2023 naked and unable to walk, maybe someone called an ambulance and she was taken to a hospital, where she was helped with 2023 technology such as leg braces. But it still seems unlikely she could get a job driving a taxi with that kind of disability. 

That was the other part that reminded me of The Terminator: it’s a one way trip, you can’t come back, you can’t take anything with you. 

As for Maplewood driving in 2023, they can modify cars. I went to high school with a girl who had a similar disability, leg braces, those arm crutches. She was able to drive and that was in 1991.

3 hours ago, calvinshobbes said:

The producers wanted to leave an opening in case they get a second season like squid game did. Defoe is alive and can still create the throat so maplewood can still go back to present day as there is still some kind of threat to London. 

This is what I was thinking with it possibly being a new loop. The Mannix thing is closed but Defoe can still invent his time machine and send Maplewood back for some reason. Of course, their original reason for meeting is gone, so… who knows. 

[calvinshobbes]

7 hours ago, DMK said:

That was the other part that reminded me of The Terminator: it’s a one way trip, you can’t come back, you can’t take anything with you. 

As for Maplewood driving in 2023, they can modify cars. I went to high school with a girl who had a similar disability, leg braces, those arm crutches. She was able to drive and that was in 1991.

 

It is likely Maplwood and her brother sustained their injuries because of the bomb blast. She said she saw her mother die because of the blast. If Elias never set off the bomb, Maplewood could very well not have her disability. 

[Straycat80]

I loved this series. And agree with all the theories about the time travel and loop. I wonder if there will be a second season because of Iris driving the cab at the end. 
I was confused about a couple things:
When did Gabriel get the tattoo of the symbol on his wrist? He didn’t have it in 2053 did he? 
The teen boy with Elias in episode one. What was his connection in all this and why did he kill himself? 

[DMK]

9 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

When did Gabriel get the tattoo of the symbol on his wrist? He didn’t have it in 2053 did he? 
The teen boy with Elias in episode one. What was his connection in all this and why did he kill himself? 

The Throat put it on all the time travelers that went through (they never explained why). Maplewood showed her łłł tattoo to Hillinghead when she was next to him in the jail and telling him the whole story. 

Mannix had started something of a cult to facilitate his destiny once born, that kid was part of it. 

[Paloma]

9 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

I was confused about a couple things:
When did Gabriel get the tattoo of the symbol on his wrist? He didn’t have it in 2053 did he? 
The teen boy with Elias in episode one. What was his connection in all this and why did he kill himself? 

I was confused about the tattoo also, but my husband thought it was like a burn that those who went through the portal got, because it was the same shape as the symbol that we saw in the red lights when The Throat was activated. Gabriel did not have the tattoo when he was alive and a professor in 2053 because he had not yet gone through the portal, but the body of Gabriel that Maplewood found in 2053 and that the other detectives found in 1890, 1941, and 2023 did have the tattoo because that Gabriel went through the portal (as Iris was shooting him).

The teen boy (I think his name was Syed) was apparently a friend of Elias (the teen version) who was threatened/frightened into showing up near the body with a gun in 2023, thus making himself a suspect. I don't remember the details, but my husband thinks he was told that they would kill his family if he didn't do that and if he didn't kill himself when the police showed up to arrest him. 

12 hours ago, calvinshobbes said:

It is likely Maplwood and her brother sustained their injuries because of the bomb blast. She said she saw her mother die because of the blast. If Elias never set off the bomb, Maplewood could very well not have her disability. 

That makes sense! To take it further, the only way the taxi driver in 2023 could be Iris (as opposed to her mother) is if her body split into different versions when she went through The Throat (which is what I originally theorized). The version that appeared in 1890 was crippled because she had not yet met and convinced Hillinghead to change things. But once the loop was broken and the bomb did not go off, any later versions of Iris would not be crippled (if the bomb was the cause of her injury). We didn't see if a version of her landed in 1941, but the 2023 version of her was probably fine. She no longer existed in 2053.

[DMK]

I got the impression that Maplewood and her brother had a congenital condition they were born with and he resented her selling out for the ability to walk. 

I’m gonna have to rewatch this. Not a hardship, I liked it. 

[Straycat80]

31 minutes ago, DMK said:

I got the impression that Maplewood and her brother had a congenital condition they were born with and he resented her selling out for the ability to walk. 

I’m gonna have to rewatch this. Not a hardship, I liked it. 

You’re right. I also caught that part in the first scene with her brother, that they were both born with a congenital condition and he had refused the surgery but she wanted to walk.

[Paloma]

26 minutes ago, Straycat80 said:

1 hour ago, DMK said:

I got the impression that Maplewood and her brother had a congenital condition they were born with and he resented her selling out for the ability to walk. 

I’m gonna have to rewatch this. Not a hardship, I liked it. 

You’re right. I also caught that part in the first scene with her brother, that they were both born with a congenital condition and he had refused the surgery but she wanted to walk.

I missed that--will have to rewatch. Not sure what that does to my theory of different versions of Iris and whether she would be able to walk in 2023.

 

[DMK]

I do wish that my electronics charged as fast as Maplewood’s spine thingie. 

[cardigirl]

I really enjoyed this. So much so I stayed up late to finish bingeing it. Very well done. I'm sure there are plot holes, because—time travel—but loved the acting and how beautifully it was staged. 

I don't know if I would even want a Bodies 2. This was a great story as is. 

And the actor playing DS Whiteman  from 1941, Jacob Fortune-Lloyd, was a standout to me. He was sooo good. All of the detectives were. I think I would have liked to see more of their lives after the loop is broken.  

Great combination of murder mystery, time travel, and action story. I hope Netflix does more stories like this. 

[cdnalor]

In the last shot of Iris in the cab,  we see a KYAL building in the distance so if the cult still exists and Iris is there maybe a sequel is possible.

Edited October 26, 2023 by cdnalor

[Accidental Martyr]

15 hours ago, cdnalor said:

In the last shot of Iris in the cab,  we see a KYAL building in the distance so if the cult still exists and Iris is there maybe a sequel is possible.

Yep, I just finished the final episode and came here to see if anyone else noticed the KYAL building at the end. Everything is definitely not completely back to the way it was previously in 2023. This certainly leaves the door open for a second season.

[DMK]

I saw it but it wasn’t necessarily a KYAL building as it was lights that suddenly lit up in a building. 

[Accidental Martyr]

2 hours ago, DMK said:

I saw it but it wasn’t necessarily a KYAL building as it was lights that suddenly lit up in a building. 

You can see KYA and the top of what looks an L. It’s the same letters from the building in 2053.

[DMK]

Yeah I know but when they first show the skyline, it’s an ordinary building and then the KYAL lights up. I’m just saying that it’s not a hard sign on the building. 

[Accidental Martyr]

I think this article gives a pretty good summary of what happened during the season.

https://screenrant.com/bodies-ending-explained/

[sugarbaker design]

I'm only mentioning this because no one else has thus far.  Did anyone else notice, during the final scenes of Whiteman (Weissman) episode 8, walking down the London street, that there were posters for Polly Hillinghead on the walls of the buildings?  It looked like she was running for office.

Edited November 7, 2023 by sugarbaker design

[DMK]

2 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

I'm only mentioning this because no one else has thus far.  Did anyone else notice, during the final scenes of Whiteman (Weissman) episode 8, walking down the London street, that there were posters for Polly Hillinghead on the walls of the buildings?  It looked like she was running for office.

Yeah, I saw them, it was for her performing. She was a famous pianist. 

[krankydoodle]

This was a good binge watch. It had a more straightforward story than the graphic novel, which I'll admit left me a bit lost at the end, so I mostly liked the changes--especially with the character of Whiteman-Weissman. I would say it's on par with Prime Video's The Devil's Hour, another mind-bending, time loop mystery show that I enjoyed but hasn't really stuck with me.

I was a little irritated that this was billed as a miniseries when the ending suggests that they're hoping for another season. Having said that, I probably would watch if they continued.

[sugarbaker design]

18 hours ago, krankydoodle said:

I was a little irritated that this was billed as a miniseries when the ending suggests that they're hoping for another season.

I still consider it a mini-series with a beginning, middle and end.  That ridiculous ending scene seemed to be tacked on by a greedy producer.  And I thoroughly agree, this was immensely bingeable.

Edited November 9, 2023 by sugarbaker design

[LilJen]

Very intriguing. And then the autopsy scene, clearly designed with an Emmy in mind for sound design (could NOT watch). Noped right out of there.

[MartyQui]

I really liked this…I actually didn’t binge it because I wanted it to last.  My only quibble is with the casting of young Polly…it wasn’t believable that she was Hillinghead’s daughter, she looked far too old.   Greta Scacchi was great as old Polly though.

I pay attention to costumes, and I wonder if Esther’s red coat is a reference to the girl in the red coat in Schindler’s List.  

Edited November 11, 2023 by MartyQui

[HappyHanna]

4 hours ago, MartyQui said:

My only quibble is with the casting of young Polly…it wasn’t believable that she was Hillinghead’s daughter, she looked far 

Agree, she and her parents looked like contemporaries. I had to look them up,  the actor who played Hillinghead is 13 years older and the woman who played the mother 11. The young Polly actor is 27 and I assumed her character was supposed to be like 18. 🤷 

[DMK]

They said Polly was 68 in 1945, so that would make her 17 in 1896. I also had a hard time at first telling who was supposed to be the wife and who was supposed to be the daughter because they looked the same age to me.

I might’ve had a hard time telling them apart at all if I hadn’t noticed that the wife actress played Maladie on The Nevers. 

[shrewd.buddha]

I usually give time-travel stories a hard side-eye with the liberties normally taken, but this show was good. The acting, production and special effects were top notch. 
the second-to-last episode was pretty recap heavy, but we didn't exactly binge, so it was a nice refresher as to how we got to where we were at the end. 
There doesn't need to be more - this was perfect as a limited series. 

[chaifan]

This was a fun watch.  I generally like time travel shows/story lines, but there are always questions at the end. 

I don't understand why teenage Elias disappeared in the end.  Old Elias/Harken had his son and the lineage was established.  Because no one knew of his second recording, recanting all the "lies" about the cult, the cult would have continued as it did in the original timeline.  So Elias would have been born and led the same life up until he listened to the recording in 2023.  That should only have changed how his life would proceed from there, not erased him. 

Also, if Defoe was right about being split into past and future selves, then why was he the only one who came "back" a few days into the future?  Shouldn't Elias/Harken and Maplewood also have returned a few days into the future?  Or maybe they're saving that for Season 2? 

On 10/24/2023 at 9:39 AM, Paloma said:

this explanation refers to Defoe: When Mannix shows up at The Throat in 2053, "Maplewood, who still thinks she’s on the side of justice, allows him to step inside The Throat to head to 1890. Defoe jumps in after him, and Maplewood shoots Defoe. Because she shoots him as he’s splitting into a different timeline, his body ends up in four different years."

Was this actually explained in show?  I will admit to averting my eyes during the bullet through the eye scene, so was it shown during that scene? 

[DMK]

15 minutes ago, chaifan said:

I don't understand why teenage Elias disappeared in the end.  Old Elias/Harken had his son and the lineage was established.  Because no one knew of his second recording, recanting all the "lies" about the cult, the cult would have continued as it did in the original timeline.  So Elias would have been born and led the same life up until he listened to the recording in 2023.  That should only have changed how his life would proceed from there, not erased him. 

The bomb is the reason Elias rose to power and time traveled. So with no bomb, he doesn’t travel, doesn’t become his own great-grandfather and doesn’t exist. 

Also, if Defoe was right about being split into past and future selves, then why was he the only one who came "back" a few days into the future?  Shouldn't Elias/Harken and Maplewood also have returned a few days into the future?

Defoe explained the possibilities of multiple copies early in the series. I think it’s because he spent a good amount of time standing in the event horizon while everybody else jumped straight in. 

[chaifan]

1 hour ago, DMK said:

The bomb is the reason Elias rose to power and time traveled. So with no bomb, he doesn’t travel, doesn’t become his own great-grandfather and doesn’t exist. 

But with no time travel, there is no bomb... 

See what I mean... it always leads to more questions...

 

[sugarbaker design]

On 11/26/2023 at 9:53 PM, chaifan said:

But with no time travel, there is no bomb... 

See what I mean... it always leads to more questions...

 

A big ball of wibbly wobbly, timey wimey stuff!

[PurpleTentacle]

At episode 3. My current theory is that the dictator dude from the future manipulated events throughout history to make a nuke go off in London, which made him ruler of most of Britain. The Professor went back in time to stop that, even though he know it would cost him his life. The markings will help with that.

Let's see if I'm at least somewhat correct or totally off.

[meep.meep]

Just finished this and enjoyed it, mostly because of the acting.

That said, they used the worst aging makeup I've ever seen.  Especially on Shahara in 2053.

[chick binewski]

22 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

Just finished this and enjoyed it, mostly because of the acting.

That said, they used the worst aging makeup I've ever seen.  Especially on Shahara in 2053.

I really loved this and I am hoping for a second season despite the writer's claims but yes - Okafor deserved a much better look.

[tennisgurl]

Just finished this and I really enjoyed it. The premise itself of multiple detectives in different time periods working the same case and exploring each era was cool in and of itself, adding the time travel just made it even more interesting. The acting was great, I really liked all of the characters, especially Whiteman, who had a really good arc. Some of the time travel made my head hurt a bit as I tried to piece it all together, especially when Maplewood showed up at the end, but I nothing to stop my enjoyment of the show. 

I don't need anymore of the show, this works great as a miniseries, but I can see them doing more and I would certainly watch.