S02.E04: Daughter of the Night

[AnimeMania]

Moiraine searches for Rand while Nynaeve mourns her losses.

Premiere Date: September 8, 2023    Prime Video   

[thuganomics85]

Well, damn!  I was hoping we'd see Lindsay Duncan's character again, but I did not suspect that she was actually Moiraine's younger sister and that their relationship is... complicated at best.  I hope we dive more into that because I've always been a sucker for that aspect of immortality/having a longer lifespan than normal: how it effects your loved ones who do not have that power and the loss one will no doubt have gone through because of it.  Plus, I'm certainly not against more of Duncan and Rosamund Pike playing off one another like the two pros that they are!

Figured something was going on with Selene as well, but I equally didn't predict she was one of the "monsters" this entire time.  And she reveals it right after Rand pretty much admits he loves her.  Oof, that has to string.  Poor Rand.  At least Moiraine was able to get to him in time, but it looks like Selene can't die by normal means, so we'll see how this plays out.

Just when it looks like Liandrin was showing some layers (and was right about the attack on the West), it ends up that she's actually aligned with The Dark One?  I think?  Looks like she basically sent Mim to meet up with him and they have some kind of plan for Mat.  And she just set up and took out Nynaeve, Egwene, and Elayne, although it sounds like the latter one wasn't part of the plan.

Aww, Perrin's got a wolf buddy now!  And has learned about his connection to the wolves and how he'll eventually learn to enjoy raw meat!  Did feel a little bad when he was wondering if he'd actually be able to turn into a wolf and his reluctant mentor was like "No, you idiot!"  It wasn't that unreasonable of an assumption!

Nice seeing all the support for Lan and them bringing back up the aspect about how Warders usually end their own lives once their connection to their Aes Sedai is broken.  I do think it's accurate that the way they were separated is different compared to the norm, which is why he doesn't seem suicidal.  But he is still clearly at a loss at what to do.  And it sounds like that prophecy is bad news...

Scenery continues to be a standout.

This episode flew by for me.  Feels like this show is a lot more confident this go around compared to the first season (which I still generally enjoyed), and it has been better in almost every way.  Hope they keep it up.

[paigow]

The cold open was a flashback? The Dark has been running a long con on Rand... but why? Letting him interact with Logain seems counter-productive...

[Chicago Redshirt]

8 hours ago, paigow said:

The cold open was a flashback? The Dark has been running a long con on Rand... but why? Letting him interact with Logain seems counter-productive...

We know not that much about what the Dark might have planned for Rand. But it seemed from the confrontation last season, that Ishmael wants to convert Rand into a darkfriend, and have him use his considerable abilities to break the world further. 

Ishmael tried to screw with Rand's head, and now Lanfear has screwed with Rand's heart and other body parts. It is unclear what her immediate bondage scenario was intended to do, but I assume something succubus-like.

It's possible that Lanfear did not know about Rand meeting with Logain. Assuming that Lanfear does know, it is possible that she was dubious that Logain would or could help. Remember that Logain is a bitter, broken person. And finally, assuming that she  thinks that Logain might help Rand enhance or better control his powers. that might be what Lanfear wants.

[Danny Franks]

Lindsay Duncan is baby sister Damodred. That was a cool reveal, and it's nice to see that Moiraine keeps everyone at a distance, including family. When she said her only goal was to ensure the Dragon Reborn would be victorious, she wasn't kidding.

I can't believe Rand and Selene broke up. I was really rooting for those crazy kids.

Honestly, Lanfear is a master manipulator. She played the absolute shit out of Rand, and I'm pretty sure she was going to bond him at the end.

Nynaeve is more than a little worse for wear, which is understandable. But man, Accepted get much better quarters than Novices, don't they? But perhaps her experience in the arches was much the same as every other Aes Sedai's, it just went on for longer. I guess it's a blessing that it fades.

Still loving Elayne, she's fitting in well with Egwene and Nynaeve. She doesn't pull social rank when Nynaeve orders her out of her own room, she just goes.

I really like that they've set Liandrin up in a way where I genuinely believe she regrets doing what she did to Nynaeve, but she was told to by someone she cannot refuse.

But Rosamund Pike kills every scene. She appears serene and calm in the surface, but you see it fraying and hear urgency in her voice. It's such a good performance.

Poor Perrin is not enjoying the foreign food, but he's got a new pal. Hopper is the best boy. I'm glad we're getting to the meat of Perrin's storyline now (if you'll pardon the pun).

Mat and Min are a fun pair. I knew the first time we'd see a free Mat, he'd be gambling in an inn. I was not expecting Ishamael to show up in her dream, but I really like that development - he promises things. Things that people truly want, and that only he (or so he claims) can provide.

[quarks]

So, Lanfear turns out to have a bit of a kinky side? Not at all surprising. I am a little surprised by all of her faked shock at the "you can channel?" bit - I mean, Lanfear, you're with Rand for a reason, and it isn't the shaved head look - and somewhat surprised that Lanfear was so into the kinky bits and the "Hi, I am also a monster" thing that she failed to notice Moraine coming up behind her with a knife, and definitely surprised that Moraine and Rand didn't try to do anything to restrain Lanfear further, cut throat or not, but the kinkiness, not surprising.

Regarding:

9 hours ago, paigow said:

The cold open was a flashback? The Dark has been running a long con on Rand... but why? Letting him interact with Logain seems counter-productive...

and

41 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Assuming that Lanfear does know, it is possible that she was dubious that Logain would or could help. Remember that Logain is a bitter, broken person. And finally, assuming that she  thinks that Logain might help Rand enhance or better control his powers. that might be what Lanfear wants.

Well, to start with, I'm not sure I would say that either Ishamael or Lanfear appears to be completely rational - I mean Ishamael is running around introducing small cute children to monsters and popping into caravans and people's dreams to say weird things, and Lanfear is like I mean yes I just spent a few minutes pretending to be shocked shocked shocked about you Rand but LOOK GO ME MONSTER MONSTER MONSTER. So I don't think that either of them are necessarily going to be able - or interested in - focusing on the most rational, productive path forward here.

But that said, Logain isn't 100% with it either, and I agree that Lanfear and Ishamael might have just figured eh, no reason to believe Logain is going to do anything meaningful here.

Moving on:

Lindsey Duncan as Moraine's little sister is just great here. I can't help but wonder what might have happened if Moraine had agreed to that initial cup of tea and been just a touch friendlier. A touch. Acting like this to potential allies may not be the best approach, Moraine!

Hopper! Hopping around! That was delightful. 

Elayne! Pointing out that hey, this was her room, then recognizing when she lost that argument, then just grabbing a lantern and following them. (Hopefully bringing along at least some possessions, and by possessions I mean money. I assume Nynaeve and Egwene can't have much, unless the people of Fal Dara handed them a couple of pouches of gold as they left. Elayne, though, might have money. If she had the sense to bring it, which she probably didn't because, hey, she was just sneaking around and following her friends.) I will say that Nynaeve probably should have said something along the lines of "Egwene, may I speak to you a moment in my rooms," rather than just taking over Elayne's room like that, but, it worked.

Less sure about the Min/Ishamael interactions - but I can see some interesting payoffs for this down the line, so I'm willing to see where this goes. And Min and Mat are apparently heading to Cairhein, not to Falme or Tear, so...that could definitely be fun. 

Less fun: all the fakeout deaths. It's starting to feel as if we're getting at least one fakeout death per episode, and it's getting less and less enjoyable per episode.

And no offense against Leane, but, uh, where is Siuan?

But once again the highlights of the episode for me, and I am surprised every time I find myself typing this, were all the Liandrin/Nynaeve scenes. Both of these actors are just killing it in these roles, and even with Liandrin slamming Our Heros into walls, I'm finding myself really hoping to see a lot more of her. 

[MissLucas]

I knew who Selene is but did not make the connection to the cold open until the end - well played show, well played.

I immensely enjoyed Lady Damodred dishing out the lay of the land to 'I have important Aes Sedai stuff to attend to - no time for sisterly talk' Moraine - that was such a fantastic scene. Maybe my favorite of the whole series so far.

And the costumes in this show *swoons* Nynaeve's Accepted gown with the colorful embroidery at the wrist was lovely. And on a side-note: seeing an Accepted digs must be a great incentive to march through the Arches. Moraine's blue get-up adapted to Cairhiern's quasi-baroque styles was awesome. And Leane's top with the elaborate pleats deserved more screen time. Heck, even Rand's tattered coat looked great in its own way (though no match for that red-and-gold frock coat from last week).

 

[paigow]

Wolves should be more literal in naming ... Big Ears, White Stripe, 

[AnimeMania]

25 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

And the costumes in this show *swoons* Nynaeve's Accepted gown with the colorful embroidery at the wrist was lovely. And on a side-note: seeing an Accepted digs must be a great incentive to march through the Arches. Moraine's blue get-up adapted to Cairhiern's quasi-baroque styles was awesome. And Leane's top with the elaborate pleats deserved more screen time. Heck, even Rand's tattered coat looked great in its own way (though no match for that red-and-gold frock coat from last week).

Did you watch the X-ray segment, it was all about those costumes.

[Ottis]

The issue of whether what happens in the Aes Sedai tests inside the columns is “real” (debated in the prior episode’s thread) is discussed in this ep. N asks Liandrin “was any of it real.” Her answer is simply, “the pain (long pause)… and even that fades in time.”  Then they discuss only the third test, where N lived a life with a child.

I read that exchange as definitive that the tests don’t affect the real world, and are designed to gauge reactions to basic truths (i.e. your parents are dead, so what you do here will not change that it may only make you feel better, but fail the test).

Barring a surprise to the characters who have seen many of these tests and who seem clear that they are limited in impact beyond the subject, I continue to believe the tests for N were pretty simple and obvious. 

[paigow]

Liandrin just moved to #1 in the Dead Pool.

[quarks]

23 minutes ago, Ottis said:

The issue of whether what happens in the Aes Sedai tests inside the columns is “real” (debated in the prior episode’s thread) is discussed in this ep. N asks Liandrin “was any of it real.” Her answer is simply, “the pain (long pause)… and even that fades in time.”  Then they discuss only the third test, where N lived a life with a child.

I read that exchange as definitive that the tests don’t affect the real world, and are designed to gauge reactions to basic truths (i.e. your parents are dead, so what you do here will not change that it may only make you feel better, but fail the test).

 

That's what Liandrin believes. We don't know if it's the truth. We know, for instance, that Egwene believes Rand is dead. He isn't. We know that Rand thought Selene/Lanfear was a normal person, and...not so much.

We also know that other women went into the arches and never came out, which I would argue has a real world impact.

I'd also argue that emotional trauma and pain can impact later decisions, and thus have an effect on the real world - even when this is based on something that isn't real. We saw that just this episode. Rand, after all, isn't dead. But Egwene believes he is, and she also believes that she could have saved him - and that belief leads her to try to leave the White Tower only to get smashed into a wall by Liandrin. So, emotional pain over something that isn't real led to pretty real real world consequences.

[tennisgurl]

I certainly didn't call Lindsay Duncan being Moiraine's younger sister, but its a good surprise to get! Not only do we get two great actresses really getting to play off of each other, but we get more of Moiraine's backstory. I cant blame her little sister, who now looks significantly older than her, for being pretty pissed off considering it sounds like Moiraine just grabbed her Aes Sedai card and never looked back, even when their family fell on hard times. It guess Moriraine's tendency to be closed off and always having her eyes on the prize isn't a new development. I know that she's really going through it and I feel for her, but damn at least have some tea with your sister you haven't spoken to in years, she isn't your Air B&B host. Then she probably wouldn't have kicked her out.

I like that this season is giving Liandrin more depths but without sacrificing her edge. She's still pretty awful and now it looks like she might be up to something sinister, but her grief over her son really humanizes her, she's totally right about taking the violence in the west seriously, and I do think that, whatever she is up to, she's working for some greater good. The Aes Sedai need to pay attention to this new threat or they're going to regret it. 

I thought that something might be up with Selene in this episode when she was talking about the first man she loved, but that really took a turn quickly! Poor Rand, he meets a nice girl in his weird new life and it turns out she's a particularly scary Darkfriend. I hope that we see her again, she was fun both as Selene and this scary monster lady who is into some pretty kinky stuff. 

Mat and Min are fun and I am glad that Min is clearly still drawing lines at hurting people, even if she's stuck as Liandrin's spy and is now stuck dealing with Ishamael trying to manipulate her. The actor continues to kill it, he's charismatic enough that you buy that people would follow him, even people smart enough to know better.

Perrin gets more in touch with his wolf powers! And gets to hang out with a very good boy! 

The sets, costumes, and scenery continue to be wonderful to look at. 

[silverstream]

2 hours ago, Ottis said:

Barring a surprise to the characters who have seen many of these tests and who seem clear that they are limited in impact beyond the subject, I continue to believe the tests for N were pretty simple and obvious. 

The thing is, once you step through the arches you don't really know it isn't real - right after N. goes through the first arch, her dad asks her why she's holding the poisonous roots in her hand, and she says she doesn't know and doesn't remember how she got there. The way I interpreted it is that it's like when you're in a dream - you know something isn't quite right, but only once you wake up your awake mind kicks in and reminds you that, yes, obviously the six-headed, five-meters-tall dog wasn't real, and even if such a thing existed, they certainly wouldn't be dancing the lead role in The Nutcracker! So the test isn't stepping through the arch and going "well, I know for sure a second ago I was in the tower's arch room and this is a test, logically nothing can really happen to me, guess I'll just hang around here long enough for the exit to appear, yawn", but you're thrust into a situation that doesn't feel quite right with a vague memory that there's *something* you need to do, but you can't quite put your finger on it. The actual test is trusting your gut instinct and abandoning the "fake" world that nevertheless seems 95% real to you and going with that 5% voice in your head that tells you something is wrong and you need to act *now* to fix it. (At least that's what I took from N.'s experience, since we haven't seen anyone else's.)

48 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I know that she's really going through it and I feel for her, but damn at least have some tea with your sister you haven't spoken to in years, she isn't your Air B&B host. Then she probably wouldn't have kicked her out.

"Air B&B host" ...lolol

48 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I like that this season is giving Liandrin more depths but without sacrificing her edge. She's still pretty awful and now it looks like she might be up to something sinister, but her grief over her son really humanizes her, she's totally right about taking the violence in the west seriously, and I do think that, whatever she is up to, she's working for some greater good. The Aes Sedai need to pay attention to this new threat or they're going to regret it.

I'm worried that this is some sort of twisted blackmail plot to get something out of N. - Liandrin is now in a position where she can get Egwene thrown out of the tower pretty easily (Elayne seems to have been an unintended casualty). I'm not sure why she'd think she'd need to do that since N. was pretty friendly with her already (and N. would definitely not take something like that lying down), but that's where my mind went. Though I have to say, if I was absconding from my place of work/training in the middle of the night, I *wouldn't* be wearing my blindingly white work uniform lol (surely they must have the things they came in *somewhere* if there's absolutely nothing else in a darker shade?).

Loving Elayne so far. "I urgently have to go... wash my (still full) cup!" lol

I was confused at first why Rand and Selene would be sleeping in front of the hut when it's *right there*, but I guess they unintentionally fell asleep at the fire or something. Still, that was a bit of clunky blocking.

Lan was distractingly good looking.

Could have done with more Matt this episode, the new actor's doing a really good job. Poor Min, I'm guessing the beginning of that dream/vision/thing was part of her past, and it seemed like an awful experience.

Really liking this season so far!

Edited September 8, 2023 by silverstream

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, Ottis said:

The issue of whether what happens in the Aes Sedai tests inside the columns is “real” (debated in the prior episode’s thread) is discussed in this ep. N asks Liandrin “was any of it real.” Her answer is simply, “the pain (long pause)… and even that fades in time.”  Then they discuss only the third test, where N lived a life with a child.

I read that exchange as definitive that the tests don’t affect the real world, and are designed to gauge reactions to basic truths (i.e. your parents are dead, so what you do here will not change that it may only make you feel better, but fail the test).

Barring a surprise to the characters who have seen many of these tests and who seem clear that they are limited in impact beyond the subject, I continue to believe the tests for N were pretty simple and obvious. 

I would scarcely take anything Liandrin says about the Arches as "definitive," as the previous episode established that they didn't know exactly how they work. It seems from the context that the Aes Sedai have at best educated guesses as to how they work, and those guesses don't always apply. For example, N got a second doorway back from the third arch.

But then specifically Liandrin is particularly manipulative and so any explanation from her should be considered sus until proven otherwise. One should call her "Lie-andrin." Yes she can't 100 percent lie, but she can obscure the truth. And it certainly could be true that "the pain was real...but also other stuff, and I'm not going to talk about that."

We already saw how she manipulated Mat into thinking that his friends no longer cared about him by omitting the part of the letter that mentioned him. She further manipulated Mat by placing Min in a cell next to his and into taking her as a traveling companion.

We now see in this episode that Liandrin almost certainly has some sort of deal with Ishmael going, as she sent Min to await his appearance and Ishmael knew exactly what to offer Min to get Mat on the next stage of where he's going to go. (I think it's not even a possibility worth contemplating that Ishmael got to the rendezvous without some sort of flag from Liandrin). While there is some possibility that Liandrin is on the side of the good guys or playing some long con, that is not where I would put my quatloos.

So TLDR: I would not put much stock in anything Liandrin says that isn't confirmed by what's demonstrated on screen or corroborated by another character.

In any event, N's reaction to me confirms the opposite about how real the arches seem. The tests were so real to her that even now she can't completely tell whether they were real or not. This wasn't like stepping on a fantasy version of the holodeck, it seems to me.

We again have no reason to think that the Aes Sedai or any individual will "designed" the tests. The tests just are created.

All the Aes Sedai know is that some people come through physically fine, others come back with physical injuries from what happens in the arches, and some people simply never come back. 

I would argue the fact that you can go in an arch and bear physical marks from what happened in the arch makes it "real" in most meaningful senses of that word.

We don't know anything as to what happened to those who don't come back. Are they in another dimension/part of the multiverse, playing out whatever scenario caused them to ignore the doorway back? Maybe. Are they just dissolved never to return? Maybe. 

In any event, the fact that this is so confusing to N even after the experience is over strongly suggests to me that the test is not as easy as just stepping into the equivalent of a video game and waiting around for the level to end.

And finally, even if we accept the notion that the arches are more Matrix-like sims and less like portals to other realities, that doesn't matter if the prospective Aes Sedai don't know that it is impossible to change what has happened or is happening or might happen. If the arches play headgames to make one think that you can save your family or save your village or whatever, it doesn't so much matter that they won't in fact allow you to make those changes for it to seem real and for it therefore to be a true temptation.

[paigow]

The Inn must have had some bad Yelp reviews...

Burning this place down would be an improvement

[Chicago Redshirt]

Random aside: Does the title of the episode evoke the Rocky Horror song "Touch a touch a touch me" for anyone else, the part where everyone is going "CREATURE OF THE NIGHT" at the end?

Daughter of the Night! Rand is kind of dumb like Rocky.

[DoctorAtomic]

See, Moiraine only offers the cup of wine to Logain. She knows how to bargain. I guess this is the episode of Moiraine stomping around. 

I like the chemistry with Selene and Rand. Last week the party, and here on the mountain. 

The other warders being so nice to Lan was really well done too. I disagree that warders aren't their equals though. Certainly Lindsay Duncan isn't inferior to anyone! I'm certainly pro-Moiraine, but that checkmate was brilliant. 

Rand dispatching the Fade without so much a blink was outstanding. It's interesting that he was channeling without doing the hand deal that the women do. 

That's how you make an entrance Moiraine!

I think Rand's reaction was fair, but I also liked how he came to his senses when Moiraine said, 'you know I can't lie' and got his stuff and left. She did say "I'm a monster too". 

I'm really surprised at the Selene reveal this early on. 

13 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

It's possible that Lanfear did not know about Rand meeting with Logain.

I don't think she did because she kept asking about why Rand needed the wine, and he wouldn't tell her. 

12 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Honestly, Lanfear is a master manipulator. She played the absolute shit out of Rand, and I'm pretty sure she was going to bond him at the end.

Please see the book thread. 

9 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Did you watch the X-ray segment, it was all about those costumes.

All the behind the scenes are great. I was saying that Moiraine was wearing a weird looking kimono, and the segment was about a French-Japanese mash up. 

6 hours ago, silverstream said:

The way I interpreted it is that it's like when you're in a dream - you know something isn't quite right, but only once you wake up your awake mind kicks in and reminds you that, yes, obviously the six-headed, five-meters-tall dog wasn't real, and even if such a thing existed, they certainly wouldn't be dancing the lead role in The Nutcracker!

In the third scenario, after Ny runs into Lan and the Arch shimmers, she says "I almost feel like I'm in a dream". I would say that's a reasonable interpretation. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

9 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I think Rand's reaction was fair, but I also liked how he came to his senses when Moiraine said, 'you know I can't lie' and got his stuff and left. She did say "I'm a monster too". 

I'm really surprised at the Selene reveal this early on. 

I don't think she did because she kept asking about why Rand needed the wine, and he wouldn't tell her. 

That could have just been her playing dumb, though.

Before the reveal, I figured using genre-savviness that there were only two possibilities for "Selene:" Darkfriend seductress who is trying to manipulate Rand or actual innocent who is destined for a fridging so that down the road he and E can get back together. It would have been nice if one of the other possibilities were explored like her just being a normal innkeeper who was oblivious to Rand's true nature and was actually given intelligence, depth, power and non-evil agency. Oh well. 

[DoctorAtomic]

She could have been playing dumb, but I think the show would have tipped us off. 

[paigow]

11 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

In the third scenario, after Ny runs into Lan and the Arch shimmers, she says "I almost feel like I'm in a dream". I would say that's a reasonable interpretation. 

She should have brought this into the arch...

[jojozigs]

I'm Enjoying everything so far except I'm thoroughly confused by the situation with Lan and Moiraine over the first 4 episodes. 

Presumably, Moiraine does not actually think that Lan sucks as a fighter so she can't trust him, and that's why he has to go.  Because he just killed two of those fade things which are super tough and did a gillion other awesome things last season.  Dude's a badass.   

I had figured that whatever it was she had to go do was really important that he NOT be there.  But now we know that she left in order to go stop Lanfear / rescue Rand!  Why wouldn't she want Lan with her?  Fighting blood-covered witchy ladies seems pretty above board and something he'd be down with helping with I would think. 

Is Moiraine trying to force Lan to go to the tower to help out the two rivers girls?  If so, It doesn't seem like he's particularly inclined to do so.  And also I don't see why she couldn't just, like order him to go (or even ask him) without all the dumb drama. 

Maybe there will be some reveal about what she's trying to do here but for now I'm confused.  Anyone?

Edited September 9, 2023 by jojozigs

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, jojozigs said:

Maybe there will be some reveal about what she's trying to do here but for now I'm confused.  Anyone?

My best guess is that Moiraine does not want "anyone!" to know that Rand is still alive. The first person to say that Rand is still alive will probably be someone you can not trust.

[Danny Franks]

2 hours ago, jojozigs said:

I'm Enjoying everything so far except I'm thoroughly confused by the situation with Lan and Moiraine over the first 4 episodes. 

Presumably, Moiraine does not actually think that Lan sucks as a fighter so she can't trust him, and that's why he has to go.  Because he just killed two of those fade things which are super tough and did a gillion other awesome things last season.  Dude's a badass.   

I had figured that whatever it was she had to go do was really important that he NOT be there.  But now we know that she left in order to go stop Lanfear / rescue Rand!  Why wouldn't she want Lan with her?  Fighting blood-covered witchy ladies seems pretty above board and something he'd be down with helping with I would think. 

I think she's trying to be noble and protect Lan from the danger of fighting the Forsaken. Especially of fighting the Forsaken without Moiraine being able to channel.

She genuinely cares for Lan, but she's likely seen that he's got something else to live for than just the Dragon Reborn - Nynaeve - and she doesn't want to see him toss his life away when he could have happiness.

She was apparently being cold to Lan for months, but she really only pushed him hard after she read that poem that told her Lanfear was likely free. She's prepared to do anything to ensure the Dragon Reborn succeeds, but perhaps the one limit she puts on it is letting Lan follow her into danger she doesn't expect to survive.

[shrewd.buddha]

23 hours ago, silverstream said:

I was confused at first why Rand and Selene would be sleeping in front of the hut when it's *right there*,

That was so very distracting.. and they kept showing the cabin.. but neither of them attempted to go there for protection. 

On 9/8/2023 at 4:47 PM, tennisgurl said:

The sets, costumes, and scenery continue to be wonderful to look at. 

Impressive,  yes, but there is something about the production that  makes this world feel a bit.. artificial.  Everything is so clean, so neat, so huge, grand,  pristine,  etc. They seem to be going for a medieval vibe = but the rooms are immaculate and gigantic. And the seldom used mountain cabin ..  within walking distance.. looks like something out of a Hallmark movie.

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, jojozigs said:

I'm Enjoying everything so far except I'm thoroughly confused by the situation with Lan and Moiraine over the first 4 episodes. 

Presumably, Moiraine does not actually think that Lan sucks as a fighter so she can't trust him, and that's why he has to go.  Because he just killed two of those fade things which are super tough and did a gillion other awesome things last season.  Dude's a badass.   

I had figured that whatever it was she had to go do was really important that he NOT be there.  But now we know that she left in order to go stop Lanfear / rescue Rand!  Why wouldn't she want Lan with her?  Fighting blood-covered witchy ladies seems pretty above board and something he'd be down with helping with I would think. 

Is Moiraine trying to force Lan to go to the tower to help out the two rivers girls?  If so, It doesn't seem like he's particularly inclined to do so.  And also I don't see why she couldn't just, like order him to go (or even ask him) without all the dumb drama. 

Maybe there will be some reveal about what she's trying to do here but for now I'm confused.  Anyone?

My take on the possibilities:

1. Moraine is full of self-pity after having been cut off from the One Power and her wanting Lan to go is an expression of her self-pity/trauma over now being a shell of who she once was. They were as intimate as possible and having him around is a distraction and a weakness for her.

2. Moraine is aware that having Lan around this puts him in extreme danger and knowing that she lacks the ability to channel and be a proper team mate she is doing this for his own good. Kind of like the trope when a kid says mean things to their dog to get them to go away.

3. As someone else speculated, she and Rand are the only ones of Our Heroes who know that Rand is still alive, and she doesn't want Lan to have that knowledge.

4. Moraine might not have any ulterior motive or hidden agenda or anything. She could just be not interested in having Lan around.

[DoctorAtomic]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Moraine is full of self-pity after having been cut off from the One Power and her wanting Lan to go is an expression of her self-pity/trauma over now being a shell of who she once was.

She's technically not 'cut off'; she's shielded. So she can feel it, but it is out of reach. Of a sort. Logain is cut off. He can't feel anything anymore. It's an important difference. Moraine could either get someone to undo the shield; being made by a guy, that's going to be hard. She's only got Rand, and he can't control himself and is terrified. Or she's going to have to figure it out herself. 

 

 

[jojozigs]

Thanks for thoughts everyone

Based on last season I think of Moiraine as single minded in pursuit of her goal of helping the Dragon defeat the bad guys. 

This is her warder.  They shared a mind all last season, so he already knows her plan is to help the Dragon.  And that is still the plan.  If Lan was going to betray Rand at the Blasphemy him being the dragon, he would have betrayed Moiraine already for the reason that she wanted to help the dragon.  She should want as much help as she can get in helping Rand.   Her not being able to channel is all the MORE reason that she needs Lan. 

I also don't think that she would allow her worry about Lan's personal safety rule the day.  Again for the reason above.  She's already essentially enslaved him (willingly but still) and put him repeatedly in mortal peril in pursuing goal of finding the Dragon and helping him/her win the day.  

So I'm left with drama explanations (self-pity?)  OR that she wants Lan to go to the white tower but for some reason isn't telling him this. 

[Asha124]

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

3. As someone else speculated, she and Rand are the only ones of Our Heroes who know that Rand is still alive, and she doesn't want Lan to have that knowledge.

Wait, didn't she tell Lan that Rand was alive in episode 2?

[DoctorAtomic]

Or, Moiraine and Lan are faking a public split for some larger con. I don't know if I see evidence of that, but I wouldn't put it past them. 

[Avaleigh]

On 9/8/2023 at 10:44 AM, MissLucas said:

And the costumes in this show *swoons* Nynaeve's Accepted gown with the colorful embroidery at the wrist was lovely. And on a side-note: seeing an Accepted digs must be a great incentive to march through the Arches. Moraine's blue get-up adapted to Cairhiern's quasi-baroque styles was awesome. And Leane's top with the elaborate pleats deserved more screen time. Heck, even Rand's tattered coat looked great in its own way (though no match for that red-and-gold frock coat from last week).

The fashion was one of my big criticisms from last season. Not only have they stepped it up this season, but they are genuinely blowing me away with their creativity and beauty, and I really hope the show is recognized for costume design because they've more than earned it. The scenes with the Seanchan and Cairhien in particular looked awesome.

On 9/8/2023 at 1:47 PM, tennisgurl said:

I certainly didn't call Lindsay Duncan being Moiraine's younger sister, but its a good surprise to get! Not only do we get two great actresses really getting to play off of each other, but we get more of Moiraine's backstory. I cant blame her little sister, who now looks significantly older than her, for being pretty pissed off considering it sounds like Moiraine just grabbed her Aes Sedai card and never looked back, even when their family fell on hard times. It guess Moriraine's tendency to be closed off and always having her eyes on the prize isn't a new development. I know that she's really going through it and I feel for her, but damn at least have some tea with your sister you haven't spoken to in years, she isn't your Air B&B host. Then she probably wouldn't have kicked her out.

I'm such a Lindsay Duncan fan so it was a nice surprise to see her pop up here. 

I feel for Moiraine in a way, but I'm also glad little sister Damodred didn't take any of her bs. When Moiraine started ordering around her sister's staff I was like who the hell does this woman think she is? I don't care if she's family or not, you don't just waltz in after decades and act like the HBIC. It's like Moiraine thinks she shouldn't have to pay any kind of toll because her work is so important and her work *is* important--but that still doesn't give her a license to walk all over the feelings of people like Lan and her sister.

Kate Fleetwood is killing it as Liandrin.

Edited September 10, 2023 by Avaleigh

[DoctorAtomic]

I like that we're calling Lindsay Duncan, Lindsay Duncan. Because she is Lindsay Duncan.

The wheel weaves as the wheel wills.

[Affogato]

Lan said he was cut off from Moraine for months, so he may not know what he plans are in any specific sense. I assume she thinks she isn't going to survive what she is doing and that, this way, he can have a life going forward.

[Tachi Rocinante]

So did I miss the part where the rest of the Aes Sedai were surprised that Nynaeve came back? It was kind of a big deal, wasn't it?

[Blue Plastic]

Okay, I'm glad I'm not the only one who was wondering why Rand and Selene/Lanfear were camping under the stars when they had a very nice-looking cabin right there!

I enjoyed the scenes with Moiraine and her "younger" sister. Love the Cairhienin costumes. Liked seeing Rand kill off the Fade.

[chaifan]

Probably my favorite episode so far.  I agree with everyone else - the scenes between Moraine and her little sister were great.  Lil sis said Morain has been gone for about 6 decades, and then there was that portrait, so guessing sis was around 10 or so when Moraine left.  

I find it weird that the Aes Sedae as a group would allow the family of an Aes Sedae to live in poverty.  You'd think they would be well cared for as they are, more or less, sending off a family member to help save the world. 

I really don't understand the Mat & Min story line.  When Liandrin released Mat (and Min) it was when everyone thought Nynaeve was stuck in the arches.  I thought she was sending Mat on a suicide mission to retrieve N.  But that doesn't seem to be it at all.  I don't know what they're doing, or even if we're supposed to know what they're doing. 

I see Liandrin as Snape.  Is she good or bad?  Aligned with the dark one, or just making it seem that way to actually help the good guys? 

And add me to the list that loves the costumes this season.  I loved Moraine's blue kimono type dress, which has been featured in promo stills.  But...  it's obvious she's wearing a hip cage/bustle to give the skirt the full bell shape, and that doesn't seem very Moraine to me.  I think I would have liked it better with just a regular full A-line skirt. 

[DoctorAtomic]

She only wore that costume in Carhein, where her family are high nobility. I think she was only wearing it for appearances. The nobility in this nation are very game of thrones. Common people are going to react to her being the eldest Damodred than if she's flashing the Aes ring around. 

[chaifan]

Oh, one little nitpick about this episode... there's no way that fire would have been contained to the Inn.  The entire shanty town would have burnt to the ground.  If the nobility wants to clean up/clean out that area, instead of offering a made up "hunt", they could just set a fire every few years. 

[Absurda]

I thought Moraine was still in the midst of her pity party and didn't want anyone around who would try to make her feel better or support her.  So, that's why she sent Lan away.  She's so focused on her goal of supporting the dragon that she can't see anything else.  She definitely has a "only I can accomplish this task and everyone else is just in my way" complex.

Unpopular opinion:  I did not like the big, poofy, ankle length skirt.  I think she did put in on to declare her status as one of the nobility, but it really didn't look right on Moraine.