S02.E10: The Last Supper Part One: Appetizer

[John M]

I'm just thinking about how a few years ago a young co-worker of mine asked me advice about coming out as trans to her very religious conservative family.

I know why she did, by all accounts I am a happily married upper-middle class middle-aged gay man, which I am, and what she didn't know is I am somewhere between mostly estranged to completely estranged/disowned from all of my family as well as almost everyone in my life growing up.

I did the best that I could, I invited her over to our home with one of my closest trans friends, who has a similar life story, opened a bottle of wine and said, you are on your own now, protect yourself, we can't help you. We will support you in the ways that we can, but this is likely going to be horrible and I'm sorry there is nothing we can do about it for you besides offer support and tell you that after all of it that we turned out damaged but happy with our chosen family.

Any openly LGBT person knows this and knows it well, Che threw Miranda under the bus for something all of us know what it is like to go through, even under the best of circumstances.

I will also add, I came out at 21, out and proud, waving the gay pride flag, socially and financially secure on paper, great chosen family, some of which are still my closest friends, it took me over a decade to find the acceptance to be truly loved by and love another person as myself, raw and damaged as I was and am. Che needs to sit the fuck down and look at themselves before blaming Miranda for the failure of their relationship.

Edited August 18, 2023 by John M

[JeanJean]

whoops

Edited August 18, 2023 by JeanJean

[JeanJean]

1 hour ago, John M said:

I'm just thinking about how a few years ago a young co-worker of mine asked me advice about coming out as trans to her very religious conservative family.

I know why she did, by all accounts I am a happily married upper-middle class middle-aged gay man, which I am, and what she didn't know is I am somewhere between mostly estranged to completely estranged/disowned from all of my family as well as almost everyone in my life growing up.

I did the best that I could, I invited her over to our home with one of my closest trans friends, who has a similar life story, opened a bottle of wine and said, you are on your own now, protect yourself, we can't help you. We will support you in the ways that we can, but this is likely going to be horrible and I'm sorry there is nothing we can do about it for you besides offer support and tell you that after all of it that we turned out damaged but happy with our chosen family.

Any openly LGBT person knows this and knows it well, Che threw Miranda under the bus for something all of us know what it is like to go through, even under the best of circumstances.

I will also add, I came out at 21, out and proud, waving the gay pride flag, socially and financially secure on paper, great chosen family, some of which are still my closest friends, it took me over a decade to find the acceptance to be truly loved by and love another person as myself, raw and damaged as I was and am. Che needs to sit the fuck down and look at themselves before blaming Miranda for the failure of their relationship.

just now

I'm not saying the set was funny. It wasn't. (Back to my belief that it's best not to have a character who's a standup because it's hard to write it well.) And it could have been helped by delivering it with a sweeter tone, a lookback that appreciated human foibles,  but I doubt that's what the show wanted. (With that kind of delivery, Miranda might have even been able to laugh at herself.)

I still say, though, that Miranda knows Che's a standup (and in AJLT world, we're supposed to think their standup is good) so that's what's going to happen. They didn't name Miranda and didn't even expect her to be there, they're just working out a set. It's not  like a standup purposely bullying someone in the audience, which I hate. I also hate roasts. I'm not a fan of mean comedy (give me Mitch Hedberg instead) but in this case, Miranda has known Che's comedy style. I understand Miranda being upset, but knowing that she shouldn't have risked going. I myself wouldn't have laughed at the standup set if I were in the fictional audience. I'm just looking at it in terms of Miranda-Che.

I always thought the reason Don Rickles got away with material that would have been unacceptably bigoted by another comic was that what he said was so ridiculous and his underlying  appreciation and affection for others always came through. I don't know if there's a parallel here, though.  And I'm remembering him from when I was growing up (I'm way old) so my take now might be different.

Edited August 18, 2023 by JeanJean

[greekmom]

6 hours ago, JeanJean said:

Gotta disagree. As Che reminded Miranda, they're a standup comic and that's their job. And that's the kind of material they do, not Seinfeldian "What's up with trash cans?"  One of the things that attracted Miranda to Che was their comedy. (I still say writing a standup as a character in your show is possibly best avoided. It's hard to write good standup. Different thing from comedy dialogue.)

I listen to stand up Bert Kreischer who does use his family in his comedy routine and has practically called them stupid.  But there is a fine line of doing it and making it funny/endearing and down right mean.  Che was mean. They could have used Miranda and the situation but the clitoris joke fell flat (Miranda has one - she should have practice on how to stimulate it), and the fact that Che brought in Miranda's family in that way - mean.

5 hours ago, John M said:

Any openly LGBT person knows this and knows it well, Che threw Miranda under the bus for something all of us know what it is like to go through, even under the best of circumstances.

Agreed! Not LGBT but even I could see that Che was a major ass to Miranda in that set.

[EtheltoTillie]

I thought it was bizarre that Miranda left and Carrie and Aiden remained behind to listen to more.  It was so awkward.

[bluegirl147]

1 hour ago, greekmom said:

Not LGBT but even I could see that Che was a major ass to Miranda in that set.

IMO Che wasn't trying to be funny.  They just wanted to rant about an ex.  We all do that but we don't get up on a stage, be  handed a mic and proceed to tell a roomful of (mostly) strangers.

 

[bluegirl147]

15 hours ago, Penman61 said:

Lol hold up, Che: why would Miranda not know what to do with a clitoris? She’s had one for 50+ years, no?

Miranda used to have a vibrator (the one Magda tried to replace with a Jesus figurine if I remember correctly) in her nightstand drawer. She knows what to do with a clitoris.

13 hours ago, John M said:

Carrie's response absolutely should not have been, you and Che need to get along at my party, it should have been reading Che the riot act and telling them they are no longer invited to the party and that she is seriously is seriously reconsidering them having a friendship at all.

I forget who was fighting on SATC but Carrie refused to get in the middle. But if she is fighting with someone she expects you to be on her side. They are writing it like Miranda and Che have the same level of friendship with Carrie.  The same with Seema.  We watched Carrie Bradshaw for how many years and she only had her three best friends and Stanford? She had one episode "friends" but she didn't have a a wide circle of friends and now she does? 

 

10 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Single parents have a right to a social life etc, so long as their child is left with a responsible person

One of my best friends says if you are a single parent involved with someone either your parenting suffers or your relationship suffers.  It can be very difficult to have enough time for both your kids and your new boy/girlfriend.  Carrie has never been with someone who has kids before. She is used to being the center of attention. I don't think she is up to this.

10 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Why would she agree to go to the hospital if she was responding the way she would expect to if she had taken an abortifacient?  Why would she lie to the husband who left the decision up to her?  That doesn't make any sense.

It was a badly written story.  So what else is new?  It was also pointless. For a show that seems to want to highlight important issues they really missed the boat here.  They could have had LTW exercise her right to choose and just changed a few lines of dialogue and ended up at the same place.

9 hours ago, JeanJean said:

Carrie's whole life is an "event" to her. She needs to grow up and realize not everyone can make it (or want to make it) to every event.

Yes.  Most of her wardrobe is dressing for something but she seems to be the only person who knows it's an occasion.  Last year Miranda said she is living a rom com.  Well Carrie thinks she is living in some epic sweeping miniseries. 

9 hours ago, JeanJean said:

I have to call out Carrie as the high schooler here. It's very high school to demand your friends come to something despite the deep hurt they've experienced with other guests, no matter who was right or wrong.

Once again it's all about Carrie. It's one thing for me to not have sympathy for Miranda but Carrie should.

7 hours ago, John M said:

For someone that constantly whines about how their sexuality and gender is misunderstood they showed no compassion for someone trying to understand themselves for the first time in their, what, 50s?

This is true.  Che is a toxic partner.  

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by bluegirl147

[RedDelicious]

9 hours ago, JeanJean said:

"What's up with trash cans?" 

This gave me a very much needed laugh out loud 😊

Che had an axe to grind with their own failures, and in my opinion that's what the set was about, and it wasn't cool. It was like they took their journal, where it is perfectly appropriate and encouraged to write down whatever you want, however you want, but then they spewed it over the audience and Miranda was collateral damage.

Miranda is the worst for the choices she has made that have hurt others and for parts of her attitude but it is absolutely not fair to judge her process of questioning her identity. Perhaps Che is projecting, and that would be a very compelling storyline for another show, and that doesn't make what they did okay. 

I was annoyed that Che got to walk off down the street with another very attractive NB person. Why does Che get a consolation prize?

On another note, I loved when Brady rolled up on his bike and everyone was so happy in that moment. I don't know much, but hot dogs and clams sound really good right about now.

[bichonblitz]

11 hours ago, John M said:

I don't think they over-exaggerated the car accident at all, 1. he could have easily died in it, might have extensive rehabilitation and lifelong PTSD. 2. He totaled a stolen car that he was driving illegally while drunk. That is not a youthful lashing out, those are very serious crimes that could have very serious consequences for both him and his parents.

I agree with you, however, my beef was with the directing of the scene. It could have been done better. Jon Corbett is not a strong actor, it's as if he struggles with his lines in this series. I have seen him in other movies and he was good but you have to go with the way the writers and directors want the character portrayed and both stink in this re-boot. 

[Scarlett45]

I didn’t mind John Corbett’s acting in the car scene. The makeup crew could’ve given him some fake tears if he couldn’t make any, but I am 37 yrs old and if I broke my collar bone and leg AND crashed a car my Mom would be beside herself with worry.
 

Never mind the emotional consequences of Wyatt sneaking out, hitchhiking, driving drunk (sweet Jesus what’s up with this kid? Has he done something like this before??) It’s a lot. Plus as @JohnM said up thread they have to get him a lawyer to deal with any LEGAL consequences that come from this and pay for any damaged he caused. Aidan has a right to be overwhelmed for a hot minute in the car on the phone with his girlfriend. 

[bluegirl147]

10 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

but I am 37 yrs old and if I broke my collar bone and leg AND crashed a car my Mom would be beside herself with worry.

You never stop being a parent. My son is 30 years old and been out of the house for years. But anytime I hear someone yell mom no matter where I am I look.

11 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Never mind the emotional consequences of Wyatt sneaking out, hitchhiking, driving drunk (sweet Jesus what’s up with this kid? Has he done something like this before??) It’s a lot. Plus as @JohnM said up thread they have to get him a lawyer to deal with any LEGAL consequences that come from this and pay for any damaged he caused. Aidan has a right to be overwhelmed for a hot minute in the car on the phone with his girlfriend. 

I am curious what the outcome of this is going to be.  Does the show ignore the difficulties of a step parent or at the very least dad's girlfriend coming into this kid's life?  Does Carrie realize she isn't cut out for being part of a family with kids? Does Aidan realize they are moving too fast? 

I am close to Carrie's age and I would not want to be involved with a man who has kids still at home.  I used to see a man off and on who was a single parent (his wife had died a couple years before my husband) and even though it was just casual it wasn't easy.  He had obligations to his kids and they came first.  As it should be.  Carrie is the type who will say yep I know the kids come first and then sulk when that in fact is what happens. 

[CeeBeeGee]

2 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

IMO Che wasn't trying to be funny.  They just wanted to rant about an ex.  We all do that but we don't get up on a stage, be  handed a mic and proceed to tell a roomful of (mostly) strangers.

I've been to a lot of "novice stand up comic" sets (a friend went through that phase). There actually are a fair amount of stand up comics who are just angry and ranty and not funny at all. They're almost always white men, and new to comedy. (IOW they don't have a NeTfLiX sPeCiAl like Che does.) This felt like one of those painful sets to sit through. (God, they're excruciating, especially when the comic gets mad because nobody's laughing at their "jokes.") And I wonder if AJLT was trying to signal that? I was listening to the audience--there were a few reactions here and there, a reactive giggle, etc., but none of those nauseatingly over the top audience reactions we were seeing in the first season. (Also excruciating.)

 

1 hour ago, RedDelicious said:

On another note, I loved when Brady rolled up on his bike and everyone was so happy in that moment. I don't know much, but hot dogs and clams sound really good right about now.

Mmmm, hot dogs and clams and beer...

[slowpoked]

9 hours ago, John M said:

For someone that constantly whines about how their sexuality and gender is misunderstood they showed no compassion for someone trying to understand themselves for the first time in their, what, 50s?

56. Miranda is 56 years old. 

On one hand, you do have real-life stand-up comedians who made their careers making fun of their spouses - Ali Wong and Amy Schumer come to mind. I wondered if Ali's stand-up bits were a factor in their divorce. I watch Amy's stuff quite a bit, and while she does "make fun" of her husband being on the spectrum, she does it in a loving way that doesn't seem punching down on him (like you said), but more like punching down on herself for not understanding or relating to her husband more.

I did a rewatch and try to isolate Che's stand-up as if it's a real stand-up and not part of a show. It's just not funny. It was outright mean. There's no genuine LOL parts of it. If I'm watching this in a club, I would feel horrible for who this person is that Che is just eviscerating to pieces.  

[ItCouldBeWorse]

42 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

You never stop being a parent. My son is 30 years old and been out of the house for years. But anytime I hear someone yell mom no matter where I am I look.

Yes! Even if it's a young child. It's become instinctual.

[Scarlett45]

56 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

You never stop being a parent. My son is 30 years old and been out of the house for years. But anytime I hear someone yell mom no matter where I am I look.

I am curious what the outcome of this is going to be.  Does the show ignore the difficulties of a step parent or at the very least dad's girlfriend coming into this kid's life?  Does Carrie realize she isn't cut out for being part of a family with kids? Does Aidan realize they are moving too fast? 

I am close to Carrie's age and I would not want to be involved with a man who has kids still at home.  I used to see a man off and on who was a single parent (his wife had died a couple years before my husband) and even though it was just casual it wasn't easy.  He had obligations to his kids and they came first.  As it should be.  Carrie is the type who will say yep I know the kids come first and then sulk when that in fact is what happens. 

We talked about this more in the Small Talk thread but this is one of the reason I am not into dating someone with little kids (I don’t consider 14 little). I don’t think a 14yrs old would bother me as I have caregiving duties of my own that come first, but Carrie has NO perspective. She wouldn’t be up to keeping things casual OR being the one to see Aidan in VA and maybe only get him for an evening or two every other week. 
 

Of course you never stop being a parent. Wyatt was seriously hurt. This wasn’t a hang nail. When he’s 44 I would expect Aidan to be just as upset if he was in an accident like that. 

[bluegirl147]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Wyatt was seriously hurt. This wasn’t a hang nail.

And Carrie's idea of being supportive of Aidan is to say bones heal.  She is not cut out for this.  I never faulted her for not having kids because with her lifestyle (and narcissistic personality) I don't think she would have been good at it. You could tell when she was on the phone with Aidan she could see it all slipping away.  I think instinctively she knew it wasn't going to be easy with Aidan having to go back and forth to Virginia for the kids  but she pushed it aside and jumped in with both feet willing it to work out.  I don't like Carrie but if this doesn't work I am going to be sad for her.  As I said in an earlier post I think she is using Aidan to help make up for the loss she still feels over losing Big. It sounds trite to say but she really does need to take some time for herself.

[Scarlett45]

8 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

And Carrie's idea of being supportive of Aidan is to say bones heal.  She is not cut out for this.  I never faulted her for not having kids because with her lifestyle (and narcissistic personality) I don't think she would have been good at it. You could tell when she was on the phone with Aidan she could see it all slipping away.  I think instinctively she knew it wasn't going to be easy with Aidan having to go back and forth to Virginia for the kids  but she pushed it aside and jumped in with both feet willing it to work out.  I don't like Carrie but if this doesn't work I am going to be sad for her.  As I said in an earlier post I think she is using Aidan to help make up for the loss she still feels over losing Big. It sounds trite to say but she really does need to take some time for herself.

I mean not everyone knows what to say at times like that. I think trying to comfort Aidan that Wyatt was going to be okay was well intentioned- but I agree with you.
 

Carrie doesn’t want Aidan, she’s LONELY, and he’s familiar and divorced. I don’t blame her for being lonely, but Aidan wasn’t the one (which we knew the second time around circa 2001!!!). But in Carrie’s defense, Aidan could’ve came to NYC, had sex with her and gone home (like Big used to do), he was the one that pursued a relationship and asked her to meet his sons. He needs to figure out how he can split time parenting and with his social life, that’s not Carrie’s fault. 

[RedDelicious]

Carrie has never changed in that regard - it seems like she's always expected she should be the #1 priority in her relationships whether it was Big having to move to Paris for his career, Carrie expecting Charlotte to at least offer resources for her down payment or now with Aidan having to put his kids first because they are in a serious situation. And what kills me is when Aidan did make Carrie his priority, she got hives and couldn't do it. 

I learned a long time ago that when you date a man with an ex-wife and kids, you always come in third. Kids first, ex-wife second and then you. If his ex-wife calls because the sump pump broke down, but you have dinner plans, guess whose plans are getting canceled. If she gets a flat tire or a dead battery and can't manage that herself, same thing, and sometimes it is out of pure spite. That's when you have to make a decision if its the right relationship for you. I'm not defending Carrie - I'm saying you have to check your expectations.

[bluegirl147]

Why do I feel like all of us posters here spend more time analyzing these characters and plotlines more than the writers do? Everything we have talked about should have been discussed in the writers room. I swear we have more insight into these characters than anyone associated with AJLT.

[RedDelicious]

Just now, bluegirl147 said:

Why do I feel like all of us posters here spend more time analyzing these characters and plotlines more than the writers do? Everything we have talked about should have been discussed in the writers room. I swear we have more insight into these characters than anyone associated with AJLT.

Totally. It's free market research for the writers.

[Scarlett45]

15 minutes ago, RedDelicious said:

I learned a long time ago that when you date a man with an ex-wife and kids, you always come in third. Kids first, ex-wife second and then you. If his ex-wife calls because the sump pump broke down, but you have dinner plans, guess whose plans are getting canceled. If she gets a flat tire or a dead battery and can't manage that herself, same thing, and sometimes it is out of pure spite. That's when you have to make a decision if its the right relationship for you. I'm not defending Carrie - I'm saying you have to check your expectations.

Which I get. People are always going to look out for the person they co-parent with (assuming it’s not an abusive situation or something like that), because if one parent goes down or is hurt the kids suffer. When people are raising kids together they are emotionally intertwined, and even after the kids are grown, they have a common interest in the well being and happiness of their adult child. 

Wyatt is his youngest and likely his most needy child. I wonder how long he and Kathy have been divorced (it might not be very long), with the older boys being more independent Wyatt may feel lonely. I know a young man like that who felt so lost when his sister went off to college, Covid hit and then his brother went. 

[luna1122again]

I think Carrie said Aidan and Cathy had been divorced 5 years? 

I also think Carrie was just going for soothing words while Aidan was having his breakdown. It's hard to know what to say to anyone in this kind of situation. 

I also firmly believe that Carrie does love Aidan. While she might be using him a bit to heal, plenty of relationships have been formed on that foundation, and it's not necessarily a bad thing. That doesn't mean I think Carrie and Aidan would necessarily be able to make this work, but I also don't believe she doesn't love him. 

[JeanJean]

13 hours ago, John M said:

I'm just thinking about how a few years ago a young co-worker of mine asked me advice about coming out as trans to her very religious conservative family.

I know why she did, by all accounts I am a happily married upper-middle class middle-aged gay man, which I am, and what she didn't know is I am somewhere between mostly estranged to completely estranged/disowned from all of my family as well as almost everyone in my life growing up.

I did the best that I could, I invited her over to our home with one of my closest trans friends, who has a similar life story, opened a bottle of wine and said, you are on your own now, protect yourself, we can't help you. We will support you in the ways that we can, but this is likely going to be horrible and I'm sorry there is nothing we can do about it for you besides offer support and tell you that after all of it that we turned out damaged but happy with our chosen family.

Any openly LGBT person knows this and knows it well, Che threw Miranda under the bus for something all of us know what it is like to go through, even under the best of circumstances.

I will also add, I came out at 21, out and proud, waving the gay pride flag, socially and financially secure on paper, great chosen family, some of which are still my closest friends, it took me over a decade to find the acceptance to be truly loved by and love another person as myself, raw and damaged as I was and am. Che needs to sit the fuck down and look at themselves before blaming Miranda for the failure of their relationship.

In fairness,  I have to admit that I'm still more team Che than team Miranda because of the way Miranda treated Steve.  I do see Miranda morphing back into her old likeable personality, though, and I'm slowly starting to like her again. My empathy toward her may follow in  time.

Unless I'm misremembering, she said similarly harsh and hurtful things to Steve. She just doesn't work onstage.

The whole sour standup set and the street fight was kind of a continuance of a bitter breakup made public. They're both pretty much still in the early stages of it.

 

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by JeanJean

[Jackie14]

I wonder how Carrie will fit 16 guests plus the chef into her tiny apartment. The poor Michelin star chef is going to have a hard time making a great dinner for all those people. She should have planned it for the new apartment. The chef will weep if they knew what the other place looked like....

[bluegirl147]

9 minutes ago, Jackie14 said:

She should have planned it for the new apartment

But then she wouldn't be able to call it the Last Supper.

Once again a plot built around one line.

[RedDelicious]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

Which I get. People are always going to look out for the person they co-parent with (assuming it’s not an abusive situation or something like that), because if one parent goes down or is hurt the kids suffer. When people are raising kids together they are emotionally intertwined, and even after the kids are grown, they have a common interest in the well being and happiness of their adult child. 

I think we were typing at the same time. I agree - what I’m saying is the Carrie we know doesn’t like to not be the priority and I don’t know how well she understands the position of co-parenting. When she said and just like that, I was worried, I took that to mean she was worried for more for her future with Aidan than the big (no pun) picture.

But also I’ve been in that position and it doth stink when the dating pool is reduced to options where you’re never going to be first, especially if you’ve never been first. 

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

When she said and just like that, I was worried, I took that to mean she was worried for more for her future with Aidan than the big (no pun) picture.

Yes- she was worried about she and Aidan not Aidan’s feelings or Wyatt’s well being. For the record I’m not saying she wishes ill upon the boy or anything like that (she doesn’t), but she wants to be first, and she’s not. 

 

2 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

But also I’ve been in that position and it doth stink when the dating pool is reduced to options where you’re never going to be first, especially if you’ve never been first. 

I get it. But the only person I’ve ever expected to put me first is my Mom who gave me life, so I would certainly expect another parent to do the same. I think that’s where someone like me and someone like Carrie have a disconnect. 

[Yogisbooboo64]

20 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

I didn't feel one bit sorry for her. Not one bit. Now you know what Steve felt like, Miranda.

THIS.  While Che's 'jokes' were extremely harsh, they couldn't have been said to a more deserving person....still makes me bitter that Steve apologized seconds after giving Miranduh the what for weeks ago.  Great that Steve is moving on, I'm hoping he'll get a steady girlfriend soon, one who really cares about him.

Nice ass Anthony!  Now if he would just shave that colored in beard....

Was Sam Smith wearing Kiss boots?  And when did they get so heavy?

I would have hung up on Rock's entitled ass, and I damn wouldn't have called Harry to schlepp the book to her.

'Hey, baby' to Richard Burton was cute.

LOL at Seemantha, the poster who thought that up, hysterical!  I'm hoping the guy's 'I love you' wasn't because he was bone deep in her, I hope he meant it.

YES!  Gary Dourdan returns next week!  Hopefully he'll stick around and give Nya something to do.

Happy now, Lisa?  All that whining, now you don't have to worry about a new baby.  

[T Summer]

23 minutes ago, Yogisbooboo64 said:

YES!  Gary Dourdan returns next week!  Hopefully he'll stick around and give Nya something to do.

He's the guy Nya met at the bar?

If he returns next, is he at the Last Supper? (at first I thought it might have been Franklyn, as Jackie the other podcast guy is there in the promo)

How did he become one of Carrie's nearest and dearest? or does he come as Nya's plus 1? It appears they're meeting there. I can hardly recall Carrie and Nya speaking. I know they were at a lunch in s1.

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by T Summer

[tennisgurl]

Che was a huge asshole to use their standup as an excuse to dump on Miranda just because they're not feeling good about their life, but it doesn't make me feel bad for Miranda. She's actually been acting more like herself again in the last few episodes but that doesn't make me forget how awful she's been this whole show. On the other hand, Che was being a huge asshole making fun of Miranda's questioning of her sexuality, especially while continuing to be the least funny comic in history. This is the only thing they can think to make jokes about to end their creative slump? If they wanted to make jokes about Miranda, they could have at least made jokes about their actual relationship, like how she spent half their relationship smiling like The Joker, not stupid cracks about how she doesn't know how vaginas work or how she brought her husband and son into bed with them. Pretty sure Che was the one literally bringing ex's into their bed. We all know by now that this show is hilariously awful at writing stand up and this was one of the worst, no matter how many extras are laughing. If I didn't know better I would suspect that they had the person who joked before Che, who's whole joke seemed to be "you people look heterosexual" and looked like a total jackass when one of the couple was transgendered, but that is sadly just this shows idea of "comedy". 

The only thing that made me laugh surrounding Che's cringe stand up was Carrie's face when Miranda told her that she hadn't told Che she was coming, like she was thinking "oh no..." and then Aiden and Carrie's very awkward expressions as Che roasted Miranda, like they were both suddenly very invested in their drinks. 

I can totally get Aiden feeling terrible about Wyatt, that seems like a serious accident and with drinking involved could lead to legal consequences, but it also seems to speak to bigger issues. Getting drunk, hitchhiking, taking his dads car, and crashing seems to be a lot more than typical teen screw ups or just having trouble adjusting to his dad dating. I guess this might be the beginning of the end for Carrie and Aiden, which I don't think the show will handle well but would probably be for the best. I think that Carrie is just rushing back into things with Aiden because it feels safe and comfy, I still don't think that they're well matched. 

There were WAY too many subplots in this episode. Charlotte at least finally told her bratty kids to shove off, even if she had to get drunk to do it, drunk Charlotte is a delight. Lisa gets pregnant but loses the baby, Nya drops an insane amount of money to spite her ex (wtf?) I continue to wonder why Anthony's boyfriend is all that into him, Stanny is a monk (second wtf) and Seema is around. 

I'm so glad to see Steve starting a new business, live your best life Steve! I really loved the scene with Steve showing Carrie and Aiden his new place on Coney Island, it sounds delightful. Then when Brady showed up and they were all just hanging out and laughing, it felt so much more real than the rest of the show and was filled with so much warmth. 

Edited August 18, 2023 by tennisgurl

[Yogisbooboo64]

22 minutes ago, T Summer said:

He's the guy Nya met at the bar?

If he returns next, is he at the Last Supper?

Yes, and if TPTB play their cards right he can be Nya's only supper.

[T Summer]

 

Just now, Yogisbooboo64 said:

Yes, and if TPTB play their cards right he can be Nya's only supper.

Question: if they meet at Carrie's thing, how did he get there? this is supposed to be Carrie's closest friends... how does she know some guy Nya met once at a hotel bar?

[bluegirl147]

12 minutes ago, T Summer said:

 

Question: if they meet at Carrie's thing, how did he get there? this is supposed to be Carrie's closest friends... how does she know some guy Nya met once at a hotel bar?

I assume he is the chef.

[T Summer]

Che was angry that Miranda had the nerve to be insulted by what she heard. It was Che's perfect right to be an asshole.

9 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

I assume he is the chef.

Thumps head! I didn't even think of that!! Thank you.

In my defense my laptop keeps coming unplugged and losing power and two people keep asking me questions and the damned phone keeps ringing

[MBayGal]

6 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Which I get. People are always going to look out for the person they co-parent with (assuming it’s not an abusive situation or something like that), because if one parent goes down or is hurt the kids suffer. When people are raising kids together they are emotionally intertwined, and even after the kids are grown, they have a common interest in the well being and happiness of their adult child. 

As I was told when newly divorced: When you have children together, you are not divorced from him, you are divorced to him.  

[JeanJean]

8 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

 

I can't find the post of whoever said Aiden wasn't overreacting but I do see your point. I'm thinking now Aiden's overwhelm wasn't caused by just Wyatt's physical injuries but also distress over knowing Wyatt was so distressed. And exacerbating that was Aiden's absence, which made Aiden feel doubly awful.

[Scarlett45]

25 minutes ago, JeanJean said:

I can't find the post of whoever said Aiden wasn't overreacting but I do see your point. I'm thinking now Aiden's overwhelm wasn't caused by just Wyatt's physical injuries but also distress over knowing Wyatt was so distressed. And exacerbating that was Aiden's absence, which made Aiden feel doubly awful.

I think I was one of the people that said that. 
 

Yeah it’s not only the physical injuries, it’s the emotional distress, reckless choices, criminal consequences etc. 

[bluegirl147]

12 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I think I was one of the people that said that. 
 

Yeah it’s not only the physical injuries, it’s the emotional distress, reckless choices, criminal consequences etc. 

When your child hurts you hurt. 

When Brady was hurting after his break up with Luisa Miranda started to snap out of her Che fixation. She wanted to get home to comfort him. 

Aidan is realizing what he is doing even though it's bringing him happiness is causing his child to hurt.  No matter what happens I do not expect things to be wrapped up with a pretty little bow. 

[SnapHappy]

Quote

And why didn’t she, once she realized her hubby didn’t actually get the vasectomy eight years ago, get an IUD or something?  Did he not tell her?  Was this the first she’s hearing about it?  That’s unconscionable, but if that’s the case, why did it take till now to get pregnant again? 

Oh, when a man gets a vasectomy, the woman KNOWS about it.  His friends know about it, everybody in the WORLD knows he's sacrificed his sacks for a babe.  When they give up the very ESSENCE of their manhood, they have made the ultimate decision, and the woman will know.  And damn sure better be grateful.  *LOL*

Mine wouldn't STFU about it for a week, including the moaning, the complaining, the constant bag of frozen peas on his crotch, etc.  

(Maybe just my experience - YMMV)

Edited August 19, 2023 by SnapHappy

[Norma Desmond]

On 8/17/2023 at 9:33 AM, EtheltoTillie said:

That was some bad fake crying by John Corbett. 

Awful. He's probably the worst actor in the cast.

[BellyLaughter]

Aiden’s entitled, bratty son and his weird relationship with him is karma for Carrie calling Big a mistake… 

Someone on Twitter said that final scene was Tropic Thunder level acting and I can’t stop thinking about it lol

If Miranda ever talks to Che again after that cruel set she gets everything she deserves.  And for Che to turn around when they are caught out and make it all about “poor old Che” who know one understands is some high level narcissism …worst.character.ever.

Edited August 19, 2023 by BellyLaughter

[Norma Desmond]

19 minutes ago, BellyLaughter said:

Someone on Twitter said that final scene was Tropic Thunder level acting and I can’t stop thinking about it lol

I found the tweet, can't stop laughing at how precise the comment is, and at the video.

https://twitter.com/lisadubbels/status/1692397001378603122

[BellyLaughter]

9 minutes ago, Norma Desmond said:

I found the tweet, can't stop laughing at how precise the comment is, and at the video.

https://twitter.com/lisadubbels/status/1692397001378603122

It really was a perfect tweet 😂

[realityplease]

44 minutes ago, BellyLaughter said:

Someone on Twitter said that final scene was Tropic Thunder level acting and I can’t stop thinking about it lol

It was - the worst.  I'm embarrassed for John Corbett.  Cheesy scene, horrible acting - and while we're re-watching - what's with that lanky, long, unflattering haircut?  First, that god-awful jacket & now the hair. 

You'd think that the showrunner, writers, costumers, hair & makeup people just HATE Aiden.  (But listen to the podcast & it's clear that MPK & the writers love all of the characters & think that they're all doing a bang-up and sensitive job in  presenting them wonderfully & true to the series. They're clearly delusional!)

[slowpoked]

1 hour ago, BellyLaughter said:

 

Aiden’s entitled, bratty son and his weird relationship with him is karma for Carrie calling Big a mistake… 

 

I still can’t get over how bratty, horrible and entitled the children are in AJLT world. Wyatt calling his mom “a real dick” to his dad? Rock declaring forgetting her notebook - all her fault - an emergency, and bothered both of her parents who are at work? Lily calling Charlotte’s own time? My gosh, these kids need one good smack up the head to get them straight.

[T Summer]

2 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

I still can’t get over how bratty, horrible and entitled the children are in AJLT world. Wyatt calling his mom “a real dick” to his dad? Rock declaring forgetting her notebook - all her fault - an emergency, and bothered both of her parents who are at work? Lily calling Charlotte’s own time? My gosh, these kids need one good smack up the head to get them straight.

 

1 hour ago, BellyLaughter said:

Aiden’s entitled, bratty son and his weird relationship with him is karma for Carrie calling Big a mistake

I'm kinda hoping Wyatt is the best of the bunch!

[AllyB]

4 hours ago, BellyLaughter said:

If Miranda ever talks to Che again after that cruel set she gets everything she deserves.  And for Che to turn around when they are caught out and make it all about “poor old Che” who know one understands is some high level narcissism …worst.character.ever.

People have been wondering throughout their relationship what Che sees in Miranda and I had been wondering that myself. I could understand Miranda's attraction even though Che is/was an awful character, Sara Ramirez/Che does have a charm that can draw people in. But I never understood what the draw was for Che. But after this episode I do. Che is a complete and total narcissist. Miranda's utter simpering devotion and anxious adoration fed Che's ego. It's why Che had a tantrum when Miranda went back to New York for Brady. And probably on a subconscious level, why Che had friends over making noise until 3am night after night when Miranda was getting up at 5. Che thrived on Miranda's devotion and punished her for turning her attention back to her son. And as a bonus, when the relationship ended, Che had 'clueless old confused straight lady' material to twist into a comedy set.

[SnapHappy]

I don't think Charlotte's kids are monsters, they're pretty much typical teens of a wealthy family with a SAHM.  

The entitlement level of LOTS of teens these days is astronomical.  My circle is firmly middle class, but the number of high schoolers that expect mom or dad to drop everything to cater to them is pretty dead on.  ESPECIALLY when mom has made them her whole world for their entire lives thus far.  

And I adore Charlotte, and drunk Charlotte even more.  Her truths just come pouring out when she's got a snootful, and it's really the only good writing here. 

I wonder if dogs John Warner & Larry Fortenski are ever gonna show up in the Goldenblatt house?  *LOL*

[Readingallnight]

Quote

13 hours ago, SnapHappy said:

Quote

And why didn’t she, once she realized her hubby didn’t actually get the vasectomy eight years ago, get an IUD or something?  Did he not tell her?  Was this the first she’s hearing about it?  That’s unconscionable, but if that’s the case, why did it take till now to get pregnant again? 

Oh, when a man gets a vasectomy, the woman KNOWS about it.  His friends know about it, everybody in the WORLD knows he's sacrificed his sacks for a babe.  When they give up the very ESSENCE of their manhood, they have made the ultimate decision, and the woman will know.  And damn sure better be grateful.  *LOL*

Mine wouldn't STFU about it for a week, including the moaning, the complaining, the constant bag of frozen peas on his crotch, etc.  

(Maybe just my experience - YMMV)

 

Mine got a no-scalpel vasectomy about 15 years ago.  That took 10 minutes and a couple shots of novocaine.  His instructions were lay down for 12-24 hours with frozen peas on the area.  He put put quite a fuss for the first 4 hours until he realized he'd left his fantasy football draft notes on his desk at work, then was up and out the door, drove there and back, and sat at the kitchen table to do the actual draft for a couple more hours, then went to bed.  Total time resting on the couch with ice pack - about 4.  Total time up/driving before bed - about 6.  The next day  he was wandering around the house for a while then remembered the doctor said 24 hours but by then it was past 24 hours and my sympathy was gone.  He had no swelling or bruising and there was no scar at all.  It is possible a guy could get one done and not physically show any symptoms, but keeping quiet about it?  I doubt it.

 

I said last week I hoped Lisa would have an abortion but figured it would never happen.  They couldn't even say the word!  Like the supreme court had their bedroom bugged and would burst in if the said it out loud.  We are adults here.  Say abortion when you have a conversation about it.  Use your words about it and your feelings.  They could have done that and decided to have one and still had the miscarriage happen exactly like it did.  Massive sell out of the entire story line.  Made it completely pointless and missed a huge opportunity to talk about an important subject.  We get an entire episode of Lily needing condoms for her first time and sending her mom to get them and we can't get the word 'abortion' spoken out loud?

[greekmom]

On 8/17/2023 at 8:33 AM, EtheltoTillie said:

That was some bad fake crying by John Corbett. 

He's going from MBFGW3 to this. Bad acting in one to bad acting in another.