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Carolyn's past becomes Raylan's present; Mansell puts a plan into action.

Carolyn's judgment may be impaired, but she still knows a dick measuring contest when she sees one. I cackled when she left Raylan and Jamal at the restaurant. And when she broke out the Fred Hampton reference. Kind of a deep cut for 2023.

Sweetie's story about Miles and Ray's story about Freddy Keck was Justified-exposition at its finest.

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(edited)

Raylan never could keep business and pleasure separate. I'm happy they kept that true to the original. As always, his lady seems to be into some dirt. He sure can pick em. I enjoyed the restaurant banter. And of course the highlight is seeing Mansell in his underware. Wouldn't be primeval without the tighties. I'm also very happy that the show doesn't have a theme song like the original. I have never loved a show and hated the theme song until Justified. Drove me crazy. 

I've never been to Michigan. I wonder how accurate the portrayal is. Planning on going in September. 

 

 

Edited by tearsandhysteria
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Holy Easter Egg, Batman!  That Raymond Cruz character Raylan talked to was not only the main character from the actual book, but the actor playing him (Paul Calderon) also played the character in Steven Soderbergh's Out of Sight, which was also based off of an Elmore Leonard story.  They went all out in that front!

I guess it's in character that Raylan would already hop into bed with Carolyn, since his love life has always been a mess.  I'm sure this is going to come back to haunt him somehow.  As for Carolyn, she's currently earning the "slowly shake my head" reaction that I have been giving Sweetie recently.  Both of these characters seem to have a form of decency on some levels, but they are letting their egos or need to finally "get what they deserve" cloud their judgement.  Nothing good will ever, ever come out of going along with Mansell and his half-cocked scheme.

Sandy seems even more disillusioned with Mansell compared to the norm and I'm wondering if something will come out of that soon.

David Cross as Burt Dickey was definitely reminding me of the original show's casting of comedians or other out of left field performers on their show.  Nothing against Cross, but now I'm really wanting Bob Odenkirk to show up!

At least Raylan seem to be enjoying working with Wendell compared to Norbert.  But I suspect no one will ever replace Rachel and Tim in his eyes!

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3 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I guess it's in character that Raylan would already hop into bed with Carolyn, since his love life has always been a mess.

His definition of Witness Protection is not in the Marshal training material....

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What happened to the Albanians?  Did they take a day off from revenge? I really hope it's not a dropped plot without any resolution. Mansell is such a cocky (literally and figuratively) SOB who gets away with so much. He needs to get his just desserts!  

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4 hours ago, paigow said:

His definition of Witness Protection is not in the Marshal training material....

it's an extra close protection detail

Edited by MrWhyt
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Why would Burt just give up the painting?  Sweety tore out the page with his name.  And why wouldn't he have security in that posh estate he has?  Now Mansell would have shot up the place if he wanted that painting badly enough but without security, all he had to do was threaten Burt.

Also, what are those entries, just names of people.  They don't seem have detailed  entries of whatever leverage that judge had on them.

So Cruz just stone-cold killed his nemesis, whom he decided was a stone-cold killer.  I don't recall if he was implying that he couldn't get the goods to put him away or didn't even bother, decided to be judge, jury and executioner.

Gave Raylan pause but OTOH, Raylan has a lot of notches on his belt himself, way more than the average number of men the average cop drops.

Didn't Winona or someone said he was angry?

Carolyn thinks she deserves to be judge, not her colleague, who's political.  So in the name of justice, she's going to break bad or at least pull some extra-legal moves to become a judge, an avatar of upholding the rule of law?

So at the all-hands meeting that Raylan walked into at police HQ, I had an epiphany.  All the cops were in uniform or professional but boring suits.  And here was Raylan in jeans, some Western shirt and jacket.  No stetson or bolos but still he stood out.

In the OG series, more than once people remarked on his style.  I didn't think much of it, a Marshall who likes cowboy hats but isn't really a cowboy.

Still, if you came across a group of cops and they're all in uniform or suits and you had this guy deliberately dressing differently, you would think he's not like them.

More importantly, does he prioritize the right things as a LEO or does he spend too much time in front of a mirror?  Does he play nice with his colleagues or sets himself and sees himself apart?

If you were a young black male being pulled over, would you be more scared of a cop in uniform or Raylan Givens coming up on your car with that hat and one arm near his holster?

I guess Leonard decided to give "color" to the character and there's some lore about why he dresses this way -- I've forgotten it if they ever explained it in the show.

 

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2 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

I just didn't have that much interest in this episode.  I'm not invested in any of the characters outside of Raylan.  But, I'm in until the end.

Same here.  None of these characters outside of Raylan are that interesting to me. 

I guess Mansell in his tighty whities is supposed to be some kind of recurring joke, but I don't find it funny. And Carolyn desperately needs a wardrobe makeover with that belt sitting high on her waist.

I'll stay with it until the end and hopefully the finale will go out with a bang, but I won't miss this show.  They did Raylan dirty because he deserved a better show than this. 

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Good to see that Raylan still cant help from making sure his love life is as messy as possible, he just cant not fall into bed with every slightly shady woman he meets, especially if she's directly involved with his cases. Carolyn is clearly not on the up and up but she does have her morals, which makes her choice to apparently start working with Mansell even worse. Mansell is certainly charismatic in a cheap whiskey kind of way but people have to have noticed by now what an idiot he is outside of his folky word a day calendar speaking style. 

Not quite as fun as last weeks episode, but I am still really enjoying this weird ride, even if I find myself missing Harlan and all of its various weirdos. 

David Cross is some classic out of left field Justified casting, it took me a minute to even realize who he was I was so surprised to see him. 

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8 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

 And Carolyn desperately needs a wardrobe makeover with that belt sitting high on her waist.

 

 

Exactly. She looks ready for a Golden Girls reboot. It is almost out place bad to me. I have grown very tired of her old lady curls. It's like they wanted her out of touch. Her friend doesn't look nearly as frumpy. Maybe she thinks that old style is better for a judge. But it's good for nothing. 

Edited by tearsandhysteria
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I think the writers are trying to make me feel sorry for Caroline, but I don't.  She has made her own decisions and wants to be a judge to 'do what she thinks is right' rather than to follow the law.  I don't care about her ex-husband or her attempts to be a judge.  I don't care about Willa and her not wanting to communicate with her dad.  I do care about the final confrontation between Raylan and Mancell.  

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20 hours ago, aghst said:

I don't recall if he was implying that he couldn't get the goods to put him away or didn't even bother, decided to be judge, jury and executioner.

Raylan had told him he couldnt sleep at night if Mansell got away with his crimes and dude told him flat out "I wrongfully killed this one guy we couldnt get and I sleep fine." He was almost suggesting Raylan just kill him if he needs to, is how I took it. Or that if he cant find the evidence he needs but just ends up shooting him, hey Raylan can sleep easy with that outcome.

And when you consider how many bad guys Givens has killed, his reaction of surprise and probably disapproval was a little out of character. 

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Raylan usually talks his way out of killing inferior quality opponents... Like the guy he sprayed with gasoline and waited for him to surrender.

Besides Tommy Bucks, Raylan has been chased and cornered before killing - e.g. Boone

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On 8/9/2023 at 5:33 PM, tennisgurl said:

Carolyn is clearly not on the up and up but she does have her morals, which makes her choice to apparently start working with Mansell even worse. Mansell is certainly charismatic in a cheap whiskey kind of way but people have to have noticed by now what an idiot he is outside of his folky word a day calendar speaking style.

I agree Mansell isn't the brightest, but he also isn't the kind of guy you can just walk away from.  He will gladly kill for no reason, like he did the Judge.  Sandy, Carolyn, and Sweety are all in danger; I don't know how any of them could get out of their relationship with him, but I also don't understand why they keep digging that hole any deeper.  Sandy is the only one who seems to have concerns - she gave him the side-eye once or twice this episode - but she has to know he'll kill her if she tries to leave him.  Carolyn was probably already in danger just being his lawyer, but this extortion business makes her a lot more vulnerable and puts her in way over her head.  Sweety should definitely know better - didn't he witness when Mansell killed the drug dealers in the flashback?  It boggles my mind how these three (mostly) act like he's a normal person instead of a straight-up sociopath willing to shoot them at any moment. 

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What I remember most about Rylan was his roguish charm.  I was so excited when it was announced that Rylan would return that I was beyond happy.   I am seeing nothing of the "playfulness" of the original show.  As someone mentioned back a few episodes, the darkness of the photography is unpleasant.  

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On 8/10/2023 at 1:54 PM, paigow said:

Raylan usually talks his way out of killing inferior quality opponents... Like the guy he sprayed with gasoline and waited for him to surrender.

Besides Tommy Bucks, Raylan has been chased and cornered before killing - e.g. Boone

ETA: Raylan demonstrated all the things that could go wrong during quick draw to another hopelessly outmatched rube... ejecting the clip and hoping that there was one in the chamber...

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On 8/10/2023 at 6:28 AM, tv-talk said:

Raylan had told him he couldnt sleep at night if Mansell got away with his crimes and dude told him flat out "I wrongfully killed this one guy we couldnt get and I sleep fine." He was almost suggesting Raylan just kill him if he needs to, is how I took it. Or that if he cant find the evidence he needs but just ends up shooting him, hey Raylan can sleep easy with that outcome.

And when you consider how many bad guys Givens has killed, his reaction of surprise and probably disapproval was a little out of character. 

 

I kind of agree. His look of stunned revelation or whatever it was supposed to be didn't feel right, given how many people I know he's killed. I suppose it's possible he always thought it was justified or self-defense, but I know for sure he tricked multiple people into that scenario so that he could get away with killing them. It happened on Justified all the time. That is a very slippery slope already and I would think he would be already thinking about how he can get Mansell into that situation.

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(edited)
On 8/9/2023 at 3:27 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Holy Easter Egg, Batman!  That Raymond Cruz character Raylan talked to was not only the main character from the actual book, but the actor playing him (Paul Calderon) also played the character in Steven Soderbergh's Out of Sight, which was also based off of an Elmore Leonard story.  They went all out in that front!

I guess it's in character that Raylan would already hop into bed with Carolyn, since his love life has always been a mess.  I'm sure this is going to come back to haunt him somehow.  As for Carolyn, she's currently earning the "slowly shake my head" reaction that I have been giving Sweetie recently.  Both of these characters seem to have a form of decency on some levels, but they are letting their egos or need to finally "get what they deserve" cloud their judgement.  Nothing good will ever, ever come out of going along with Mansell and his half-cocked scheme.

Sandy seems even more disillusioned with Mansell compared to the norm and I'm wondering if something will come out of that soon.

David Cross as Burt Dickey was definitely reminding me of the original show's casting of comedians or other out of left field performers on their show.  Nothing against Cross, but now I'm really wanting Bob Odenkirk to show up!

At least Raylan seem to be enjoying working with Wendell compared to Norbert.  But I suspect no one will ever replace Rachel and Tim in his eyes!

I could do without ever seeing Mansell in his underwear again. Please. Enough. 

Not buying the Carolyn/Raylan relationship. I don't see chemistry between them and it it seems more of a plot device. I also don't understand Carolyn's character. Is she a corrupt attorney? She's compromised her role as his attorney. I know the guy is an evil scumbag, but she is his attorney so isn't she supposed to be on his side? 

Edited by Sweet-tea
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On 8/9/2023 at 2:08 PM, Crashcourse said:

And Carolyn desperately needs a wardrobe makeover with that belt sitting high on her waist.

I mentioned this several episodes ago.  They aren't dressing Ms. Ellis for her figure type. At all.

On 8/9/2023 at 5:33 PM, tennisgurl said:

David Cross is some classic out of left field Justified casting.

Waiting for Constable Bob to show up with his "go bag".

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On 8/19/2023 at 8:12 AM, Sweet-tea said:

I could do without ever seeing Mansell in his underwear again. Please. Enough. 

Not buying the Carolyn/Raylan relationship. I don't see chemistry between them and it it seems more of a plot device. I also don't understand Carolyn's character. Is she a corrupt attorney? She's compromised her role as his attorney. I know the guy is an evil scumbag, but she is his attorney so isn't she supposed to be on his side? 

I agree with you there , no way raylan would hook up with her, his history of women were southern blondes.  just no 

 

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On 8/15/2023 at 11:06 AM, Unclejosh said:

I always enjoy seeing TO on screen but I don't know that I would have watched THIS Raylan for 6 seasons.

I'm going to finish it, but this is really making me want to watch Justified, again. I already have too many re-watches going. 

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