S02.E04: Among the Lotus Eaters

[starri]

No description yet.

[AnimeMania]

Reed Birney as Luq

What a horrible episode and it moved way to slow. How did that Zac guy make all those blaster rifles, did the Enterprise remember to take them all with them.

Those asteroid rocks seemed like a wonderful new discovery. Maybe they can be used in the construction of maximum security prisons.

[paigow]

Ortegas works Alpha Shift... therefore, at least 2 other qualified pilots are on board. 

What was missing from this episode...

 

[tv-talk]

7 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

How did that Zac guy make all those blaster rifles, did the Enterprise remember to take them all with them.

Pike mentioned that on previous visit "Spock was bleeding out" and that when evacuating him he didnt take note of what equipment they were leaving behind. Or maybe Zac made them from spare parts, considering they could be blocked by a serving platter it didnt appear they were Starfleet issue!

[Prevailing Wind]

Ortegas was dressed as a Kalar, and when she spoke, her voice sounded so much like "Mara" in the Progressive Insurance commercials, I had to look up if they were related. They're not. Navia's from Colombia and the woman that plays Mara, Natalie Palamides, is from Pittsburgh.

I believe the opening narration needs another change. It went from "where no man has gone before..." to "no one" and that's not correct. Just about everywhere they go, they bump into intelligent life forms. Hell, a lot of the way through the Delta quadrant, Voyager kept running into civilizations that knew Neelix.  It should be "where no human has gone before" because they're NOT going where "no one" has gone before.

The logic of this episode did not hold together. The abundance of Starfleet weaponry was plain stupid. Although, as tv-talk mentions above, they were probably cheap knock-offs.  Maybe Zac also brought Wal-Mart to Rigel(roman numeral).

[tv-talk]

Despite the absurdities that piled upon one another, I did like this episode well enough in that it reminded me of TOS which is why I liked last season so much. Also finally we get an episode centered on Pike which was a relief. Una is fine but La'aan I find somewhat annoying, so for me it was good have Pike, Ortega, Mbenga, Spock as the more central characters in this one.

That said though, yeah so much ridiculous stuff it required complete and total suspension of disbelief.

[ali59]

Why is there a mosaic of Alexander the Great in the throne room?

[magdalene]

1 hour ago, ali59 said:

Why is there a mosaic of Alexander the Great in the throne room?

He is so great there is one in every universe?

[wanderingstar]

"I am Erica Ortegas, and I fly the ship!" 

YES!

Loved this episode. I particularly enjoyed seeing Ortegas featured more prominently. Loved how she used the repetition of that phrase to come back to herself and save the ship and crew. Melissa Navia definitely rose to the occasion.

Liked the conceit of the memory-stealing planet and actually thought they could've done more with it, though that would probably have required another episode.

Continuing to love this season.

Edited July 7, 2023 by wanderingstar

[tv-talk]

25 minutes ago, wanderingstar said:

I particularly enjoyed seeing Ortegas featured more prominently

Ortega is written so much better than La'an, I hope she figures more prominently moving forward but doubt it given the Gorn are going to be the "thing" of the season. Oh and I mean that not in terms of the actresses but just what the writers do with them. Much more leeway in Ortega's behavior and reactions to situations than how they have pigeonholed La'an (imo)

[paigow]

45 minutes ago, wanderingstar said:

"I am Erica Ortegas, and I fly the ship!" 

 

[marinw]

11 hours ago, paigow said:

Ortegas works Alpha Shift... therefore, at least 2 other qualified pilots are on board. 

And there must have been some other medical personnel besides Chaple.

“Spock was bleeding out” Poor Spock! He really gets put through the wringer. In TOS alone he went through Pon Far, underwent a risky procedure to save his father, gets spayed by sex spores, is shot by an old-fashioned rifle, attacked by a giant amoeba and briefly becomes blind, goes through the Naked Time and shows an unseemly amount of emotion, and had his brain stolen. I may have forgotten a few.

I liked this episode. I liked how the costume and production designers took a brief scene from The Cage and extrapolated to create a whole world. I even didn’t mind the ancient Trek trope of finding a helpful and just-curious-enough native inhabitant to explain the ways of his world help the Away Team with their mission.

I wonder what penalty Zac will suffer. At least he didn't create another Nazi planet, so there's that.

Edited July 6, 2023 by marinw

[paigow]

12 minutes ago, marinw said:

I wonder what penalty Zac will suffer. At least he didn't create another Nazi planet, so there's that.

Zac was trying to do his best Col. Kurtz, but landed on Col. Hogan

[thuganomics85]

Despite a few issues I have with the overall concept of the story, I was just glad to go back to a mainly "mission of the week" episode that had Pike front and center again, but still had everyone get significant moments or two.  This show really is at its best when it's actually an ensemble piece (with Pike still the head of it but not feeling like he's overshadowing it.)

As for the story itself, while the idea of losing memories but still having emotions there to remember that something is off was sound, I questioned just how Zac was able to get that much power and why there was that many weapons.  I know Pike mentioned they left some stuff behind in the initial mission, but there seemed to be quite a few phasers and stuff, and I would have felt like Starfleet would have noticed this after the initial report and would have already retrieved them before now.  Does Starfleet not take inventory of their stock or something?

Always great seeing Reed Birney and he was excellent here.

Glad that Ortegas finally got to be front and center somewhat.  Felt like she kind of got the short end of that particular stick last season, so hopefully this is a sign of things to come.  Loved seeing her save the day of course, but I liked seeing more of her interactions with the rest of the cast and the chemistry there, like with Uhura and Spock.

Looks like Pike and Batel are going to give it another go!

[historylover820]

I liked it. Best episode of this season so far (and I liked Ad Astra)

Yeah, it was ridiculous, but most shows dealing with temporary amnesia is. And I started smiling when they mentioned going to Rigel VII. I remember that mention. Pike was brooding about it in The Cage and The Menagerie, saying it's not fair that he has to b the one who picks who lives and who dies. (Heh. A reviewer I like does Star Trek reviews, and when he was reviewing that episode, after Pike says that, the reviewer goes, "Yeah, who do you think I am? Jesus Christ? And that's for the 5 of you who will get that reference." And I'm one of the 5 to understand that reference).

So, this felt very old school to me, which I like. And, yes, I like seeing Pike front and center. Welcome back, Anson Mount! We've missed you! And count me in on wanting to see more Ortegas. 

Oh, and I loved Pike blocking the "phaser blasts" with a serving tray. Ha!

[KeithJ]

12 hours ago, paigow said:

Ortegas works Alpha Shift... therefore, at least 2 other qualified pilots are on board.

So pretty much everything that happens to the ship happens during Alpha shift.  The other two shifts must be really really boring.

[marinw]

Did I miss the explanation of why they couldn't beam down? Radiation or something? In any case, I love the shuttle design.

The opening credits reminds me of some of the cover art for the TAS novelizations, as far as I can remember.

Edited July 7, 2023 by marinw

[MissLucas]

Eh, I liked it - great premise with some plot holes if you start to think about it - pretty much most of TOS and even some TNG.

Did we ever get an explanation for that sign La'an and M'Benga give each other with their fingers wiping below an eye? They did it for the first time in the pilot (and probably in other episodes that I forgot)?

I keep enjoying those glimpses we get of the crew's quarters or rather the officers'. Uhura's little alcove looked cute but compared to Ortega's quarter not to mention Pike's - pfff. Anyhow this show got the best digs of all new tv Trek.

[QuantumMechanic]

9 hours ago, tv-talk said:

That said though, yeah so much ridiculous stuff it required complete and total suspension of disbelief.

This ep would have fit in perfectly in TOS season 3.

1 hour ago, KeithJ said:

So pretty much everything that happens to the ship happens during Alpha shift.  The other two shifts must be really really boring.

Someone should do a show about that…

[Chit Chat]

WTF did I just watch?  I was expecting them to drop into a large, thriving city, and that they were going to go on scavenger hunt of sorts to find whatever technology they left behind.  Instead, it was basically a desolate wasteland with a handful of people barely capable of taking care of themselves.  Where was the threat from these people?   Did I miss something?  Another episode that I had a hard time staying awake through.  Yawn. 

[OLynn33]

I have bad tinnitus in real life so not a great starting point. 

I found the episode slow and depressing at times but I liked the concept of living without memories good or bad. I mean I have many I'd like to forget.

Glad to have Pike back. Liked the Ortegas stuff.

The old guy reminded me of Ridley Scott.

[paigow]

4 minutes ago, OLynn33 said:

The old guy reminded me of Ridley Scott.

Unfortunately, none of these characters were available either...

[Stardancer Supreme]

I tell you one thing, the Enterprise must be way bigger than she appears. I would love to have the captain's and/or officer's quarters to live in. 

I typically enjoy heartstring tugger episodes, and this was no exception. I know I would be freaked out to suddenly lose my memories. Ortegas was the highlight of this episode for me and I will probably go around saying "I am Erica Ortegas, and I fly this ship!" for a week or two. 

Spock having the brilliant idea of keeping the officer's information on the pads, yet being unable to read it due to Federation Standard not being his native written language. Brava. 

It was horrible that Zac was left behind, but he couldn't find a means to send communications outside the planet? His first inclination was to build a castle and hide within it? He was able to build weapons, though.  Even if everyone couldn't be inside the castle, you could have given everyone a helmet, my guy.

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, marinw said:

Did I miss the explanation of why they couldn't beam down? Radiation or something?

I think we were explicitly told that radiation prevented them from scanning the surface. It would follow that if you can't perform scans you shouldn't try to transport people to the surface area of a place you can't scan, lest you beam them into a solid object.

50 minutes ago, Chit Chat said:

WTF did I just watch?  I was expecting them to drop into a large, thriving city, and that they were going to go on scavenger hunt of sorts to find whatever technology they left behind.  Instead, it was basically a desolate wasteland with a handful of people barely capable of taking care of themselves.  Where was the threat from these people?   Did I miss something?  Another episode that I had a hard time staying awake through.  Yawn. 

I'm not sure why you would expect them to drop into a large thriving city when the premise was that it was a Bronze age society.

The threat was to Starfleet principles. Hypothetically, Starfleet could just go "Oh well, some primitives have encountered our logo and for some reason adopted it. Not much we can do to actually clean this contamination up  We'll have to try to do better next time."

But they don't want to essentially play God and so they assigned Our Heroes to see what was going on. 

Once on the ground, the threat was not just that it turned out that there was a renegade Starfleet officer who was worsening the situation by taking advantage of people's memory loss and by equipping people with advanced tech, but there was also the threat of Our Heroes losing who they were and the physical threat that the memory-retaining guards posed.

11 minutes ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

Spock having the brilliant idea of keeping the officer's information on the pads, yet being unable to read it due to Federation Standard not being his native written language. Brava. 

I actually took that to be a shout-out to the notion that Spock is dyslexic, according to Discovery, and he had to teach himself to read "normally." 

[magdalene]

I try to suspend my disbelief but seeing the Alexander the Great image in that alien hall took me out of the story. Maybe for the icy set design of your Star Trek show don't choose an image of a king so famous that I knew of him before I was six years old? One of my first books was a picture story of his exploits.  Do people really assume that we don't know the very basics of history anymore.

That was my least favorite episode of the season so far. I just didn't care for it.

[MissLucas]

Maybe Zac was a history buff and had artistic talent? Not sure why people get worked up about the picture of Alexander the Great but not the gothic church standing in for a palace.

[QuantumMechanic]

That struck me as the epitome of middle of the road Season 3 TOS:

* Interesting concept
* Good work from the primary guest star.
* Enh to good work from the regulars
* Some WTFs
* Decently engaging in the moment
* Totally falls apart once any thought/reflection is applied to it.

[wmdekooning]

11 hours ago, tv-talk said:

Despite the absurdities that piled upon one another, I did like this episode well enough in that it reminded me of TOS which is why I liked last season so much.

When Pike et al are captured and brought to the castle and Pike said Zac! I would have been totally blown away had they zoomed in on Zac! with a Dutch angle camera shot and one of the TOS music themes that would be used when things went sideways, right before cut to commercial. (Sadly, I could not find a link on the YouTubes to one of these).

In any case, I was “Who the f*** is Zac!??”

[Sandman]

4 hours ago, paigow said:

Zac was trying to do his best Col. Kurtz, but landed on Col. Hogan

Or Col. Klink?

[dwmarch]

I had to laugh at Dr. M'Benga not knowing how to ride in a shuttle. Pike is very clear that it is going to be a bumpy ride and M'Benga is just leaning up against a console. Dude, take a chair!

It was nice to see Nurse Chapel doing her actual job.

I think the interpretation of the Prime Directive in this episode is... fuzzy. Asteroid hits are not considered natural? I believe there are some dinosaurs who would like a word about that.

[paigow]

1 hour ago, magdalene said:

I try to suspend my disbelief but seeing the Alexander the Great image ????

There was a painting of this guy???  

[Chicago Redshirt]

5 hours ago, dwmarch said:

I think the interpretation of the Prime Directive in this episode is... fuzzy. Asteroid hits are not considered natural? I believe there are some dinosaurs who would like a word about that.

I really didn't like Spock approving of Pike's "logic" that removing the asteroid would be a Prime Directive neutral solution. It would actually worsen the cultural contamination that already exists because now the entire planet will be able to remember the reign of Lord Zacharias, the phaser weapons, the intervention of other Starfleet people, all of it.

I wondered if they were going to employ a radical way of solving the cultural contamination: using the forget-me-now radiation in some sort of targeted way to make the populace forget the Federation or the last few years.

[Pallas]

I wondered if Pike was going to lose the memory of what's in his future. And then the dilemma for Una and Spock, who know. 

[tv-talk]

9 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I actually took that to be a shout-out to the notion that Spock is dyslexic, according to Discovery

Good Lord I loathe that show lol. The entire point of Season1 seemed to be to establish that Spock's heretofore unknown human sister was in fact superior to him (and Kirk) in every way. Awful.

but back to this ep, yes I assumed Zac wanted picture of Alexander the Great in his throne room, to feel like he ruled the world while giving orders to his army of 4 people. Again, I liked this ep well enough, but wow did they take the standard Trek scenario of an entire planet's societal ills being solvable by a fist fight between 2 people in one random locale- they had less to this society than in any episode I can recall. 

[Chit Chat]

10 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I'm not sure why you would expect them to drop into a large thriving city when the premise was that it was a Bronze age society

Thank you!  I missed that key point.  I've got to quit watching this show when I'm so tired!  

I still think the mission was unnecessary.  You've got a very small population that can't remember anything (which Starfleet didn't know), so I don't see them as a viable threat to anybody.  The episode was pointless to me.  I want adventure (this one doesn't count), not long, drawn out soliloquies.  YMMV. 

[paigow]

TOS!Kirk - better than Pike dealing with primitive people???

[TVbitch]

This episode needs a tinnitus warning! Mine blew up when that sound came on, and then they did it again ..and again. Argh!  

This would've been an okay filler episode in an otherwise strong season, but it hasn't exactly been that. Hopefully things are moving in the right direction. Thus far, I find I am enjoying the daily routine moments/relationships on the ship more than the action plots. 

Pike screaming "Give me my memories back!!!!!" while punching the daylights out of Zac was classic Kirk.  He needs some tips from Data, though, on how to respond when his girlfriend gives him a gift. 

[MissLucas]

If Spock could not read the tablet with his info because he was dyslexic/it was not in his native language, what was everybody else's excuse? Was literacy on the list of things you lose in the forgetting? 

[Prevailing Wind]

29 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

This episode needs a tinnitus warning! Mine blew up when that sound came on, and then they did it again ..and again. Argh! 

I don't have tinnitus, but that noise bothered both me and the cat.

[MsNewsradio]

We had to constantly mute this episode because of the ringing noise. Not a great episode for those of us with sensory processing issues!

[Affogato]

2 hours ago, MissLucas said:

If Spock could not read the tablet with his info because he was dyslexic/it was not in his native language, what was everybody else's excuse? Was literacy on the list of things you lose in the forgetting? 

The forgetting did not make a whole lot of sense.

Perhaps the idea is whether Pike would be happier forgetting, and if his girlfriend would be happier if she forgot him sooner, and it was acted out in a convoluted morality play of sorts. I guess, no, better to remember?

5 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I really didn't like Spock approving of Pike's "logic" that removing the asteroid would be a Prime Directive neutral solution. It would actually worsen the cultural contamination that already exists because now the entire planet will be able to remember the reign of Lord Zacharias, the phaser weapons, the intervention of other Starfleet people, all of it.

I wondered if they were going to employ a radical way of solving the cultural contamination: using the forget-me-now radiation in some sort of targeted way to make the populace forget the Federation or the last few years.

Spock says he 'feels that the solution is a good one', something like that. I didn't like it either. I can see it being okay to remove it without landing on the planet, but the issues you mention are a problem. Maybe they cleaned out the palace and zac and waited a couple days until everyone forgot again. It wouldn't have to be targeted.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Affogato

[Affogato]

13 hours ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

I tell you one thing, the Enterprise must be way bigger than she appears. I would love to have the captain's and/or officer's quarters to live in. 

I typically enjoy heartstring tugger episodes, and this was no exception. I know I would be freaked out to suddenly lose my memories. Ortegas was the highlight of this episode for me and I will probably go around saying "I am Erica Ortegas, and I fly this ship!" for a week or two. 

Spock having the brilliant idea of keeping the officer's information on the pads, yet being unable to read it due to Federation Standard not being his native written language. Brava. 

It was horrible that Zac was left behind, but he couldn't find a means to send communications outside the planet? His first inclination was to build a castle and hide within it? He was able to build weapons, though.  Even if everyone couldn't be inside the castle, you could have given everyone a helmet, my guy.

Didn't he say that the palace was there already? He'd have to take shelter quickly to keep what knowledge he had.

 

[paigow]

Actually, TOS!Kirk and Zac had similar experiences... Presumed MIA / KIA ... became leader...

 

[Charlemagne]

3 hours ago, Chit Chat said:

Thank you!  I missed that key point.  I've got to quit watching this show when I'm so tired!  

I still think the mission was unnecessary.  You've got a very small population that can't remember anything (which Starfleet didn't know), so I don't see them as a viable threat to anybody.  The episode was pointless to me.  I want adventure (this one doesn't count), not long, drawn out soliloquies.  YMMV. 

They weren't a viable threat in the general sense. That wasn't the point nor was it why they went down to the planet. It was about recovering Star Fleet tech. It was only after they landed that the local population became a threat. They were explicitly described as fierce warriors who apparently attack strangers not of their kind. Throw in the whole Forgetting stuff and a former Officer setting himself up as a king and we had a Star Fleet mission that simply went sideways.

[QuantumMechanic]

5 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Pike screaming "Give me my memories back!!!!!" while punching the daylights out of Zac was classic Kirk.  

Heh.  We said exactly the same thing when watching that scene.  As was his "justification" for yeeting the asteroid.

[wmdekooning]

8 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

really didn't like Spock approving of Pike's "logic" that removing the asteroid would be a Prime Directive neutral solution. It would actually worsen the cultural contamination that already exists because now the entire planet will be able to remember the reign of Lord Zacharias, the phaser weapons, the intervention of other Starfleet people, all of it.

My thinking is similar to the situation at the end of “A Piece of the Action” when Dr. McCoy is perturbed that he left some Star Fleet property behind, and the thinking is that the residents of Gangster planet will reverse engineer it and hence, rapidly advance their technology.

I’m going to cop to not paying attention to the beginning of the episode, and my research on the Memory Alpha website gave me the full context and details about “Who the f*** is Zac?!!”

The reveal of the un-dead yeoman that Captain Pike mourned in the episode “The Cage really should have had this music cue…

[Chit Chat]

1 hour ago, Charlemagne said:

That wasn't the point nor was it why they went down to the planet. It was about recovering Star Fleet tech.

That part makes sense, but I still didn't like the episode.  It was just so boring.   ;)

[Chicago Redshirt]

5 hours ago, MissLucas said:

If Spock could not read the tablet with his info because he was dyslexic/it was not in his native language, what was everybody else's excuse? Was literacy on the list of things you lose in the forgetting? 

As far as we know, others were able to use it just fine (or at least, we were not shown anyone else who could not use the tablet). It was through seeing her personnel record that Ortegas was able to build the wherewithal to go "My name is Erica Ortegas. I fly the ship. Prepare to die." OK, so I might have botched that quote somewhat...

Edited July 7, 2023 by Chicago Redshirt

[wmdekooning]

1 hour ago, Chit Chat said:

That part makes sense, but I still didn't like the episode.  It was just so boring.   ;)

Because they didn’t play this during the reveal of the un-dead yeoman…

[Sandman]

Well, I suppose a cargo cult episode (or two) was inevitable. I don’t know if the mashup of the cargo cult idea with a stratified society episode like “The Cloud Minders” really works. This one had its tensions, but ultimately, as mentioned upthread, doesn’t really stand up to scrutiny. I mean, even the Troglytes didn’t immediately get better (after generations of exposure). 

I wouldn’t mind if “I am Erica Ortegas; I fly the ship!” were to resurface (“… prepare not to die!” being optional, of course).

ETA: I realized that they managed to jam in a third type of TOS episode in here: the sort (of course) where a stranded/resentful/full-on crazypants Federation dude becomes the local autocrat/Grand Poobah, as in “The Omega Glory” or “Whom Gods Destroy.” Which suggests that the Federation’s commitment to democracy is only one strategic bonk on the head away from authoritarianism. And also maybe the Prime Suggestion should include the rider “No using Federation tech to install yourself as emperor. Yes, this includes you.”

Edited July 8, 2023 by Sandman