S44.E13: Absolute Banger Season

[peachmangosteen]

I don't think I agree that Yam Yam played a better game than Carolyn but I do think Carson feels that way and that's why he voted for him. He seems more the type to vote for who he saw as a better player than out of more of an emotional reasoning. 

I was really surprised and disappointed that Frannie didn't vote for Carolyn.

[LadyChatts]

45 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I don't think I agree that Yam Yam played a better game than Carolyn but I do think Carson feels that way and that's why he voted for him. He seems more the type to vote for who he saw as a better payer than out of more of an emotional reasoning. 

I was really surprised and disappointed that Frannie didn't vote for Carolyn.

Yeah, it seems like Yam Yam may have just had a better social game, but given what some have said about him and Carolyn, I do feel like there's kind of a double standard.  Yam was considered a goofy class clown that developed strong relationships with everyone and got them to open up on a personal level.  Yet Carolyn was seen as eccentric, and she said when she tried doing deep dives with people about their lives, they didn't want any part of it.  It does sound like part of Carolyn's strategy was not to be seen as a strategic threat, so I guess that worked, even though she seemed pretty crafty and observant.  I'm at least glad her edit showed that so those that voted against her can see she was doing a decent job of playing the game, and wasn't just letting Yam and Carson lead the way.  I actually wonder if Carson trying to direct Carolyn during the FTC hurt her at all.  I really doubt she was going to win, but maybe someone was turned off.  I get why he might have thought he was helping, but Carolyn said the jury just staring at her made her shut down as it was.

Quote

They will be 90 minutes next season. Personally, I'm against it because I don't wanna watch this shit show for that long and because I have no doubt the extra time will not go to anything I'd wanna see anyway lol.

I'm okay with 90 minutes if it means the show isn't just going to revolve around the same people/tribe, idols, advantages, shipwheel island.  I wish Probst would read the room and listen to contestants about what they wish was shown more.  I'm hoping that maybe they weren't given a ton of notice that the episodes this fall were going to be 90 minutes while they were filming, so as Probst couldn't use that to shoe-horn in more trips to ship wheel island or the sanctuary or double TC or 100 more advantages to be found.  And really, what's the point of ship wheel island?  It's inconsistent and pretty much an after thought by the merge.  Just hide a bunch of risk/lose/double lose your votes around camp and have someone find them.

[awaken]

On 5/26/2023 at 5:17 PM, eel2178 said:

Does the host narrate the challenges the same way Jeff does, or has he figured out a way to do it that is less annoying?

Nope- he still talks about “bags of balls” and harps on “two balls going in opposite directions!” Like Jeff!  We always say Jonathan took lessons from Jeff on the catchphrases!

[violet and green]

Had a quick skim, not sure if this has been mentioned, but Sia came through with $15,000 each for Carson and Lauren; as well as the 100K for Carolyn. Nice!

[srhall79]

While watching the final challenge, after it gets explained there's a bunch of balls dropping on an orange mat. When the camera switched to the competitors, I noticed Heidi had an orange mat under her ball maze. I guessed right there that Heidi was going to win the challenge, and sure enough.

I hate that you can opt to do fire if you win the final challenge, and hate that it's seen as a resume building move. But, if it's going to be there, I think Heidi did it right, talking about what a strong player Carson was, so she was really proving something going head to head with him. Of course she conveniently left out that he was also the weakest fire-maker of the four.

I was expecting to dislike Carolyn, but quickly came around on her. I would have liked to see her win, but I think she had an uphill struggle for the jury to accept her gameplay.  

[eel2178]

11 hours ago, violet and green said:

Had a quick skim, not sure if this has been mentioned, but Sia came through with $15,000 each for Carson and Lauren; as well as the 100K for Carolyn. Nice!

How did Sia justify that their game play was worth the extra reward?

[Scatterbrained]

30 minutes ago, eel2178 said:

How did Sia justify that their game play was worth the extra reward?

Sia doesn’t justify gameplay.  She picks her favorites and then says why she picked them.  A sponsor used to do it, and I believe it was a fan favorite vote (audience participation, text to vote).  The sponsor stopped and Sia picked it up when she felt one person was deserving.  It has since evolved into a thing, but it is totally independent of the network, and it’s totally all about what Sia wants to do with her own money.

[Skooma]

12 hours ago, violet and green said:

Had a quick skim, not sure if this has been mentioned, but Sia came through with $15,000 each for Carson and Lauren; as well as the 100K for Carolyn. Nice!

Thanks.  Didn't know about the other two so really appreciate the post. 

But above somewhere here is the video of the podcast Carolyn was on when Sia suddenly appeared on it to give her the $100,000 calling her her favorite most player ever.

It is embedded so really stands out and not just a link and is really good. 

Carolyn was worried it was some deep prank fake at one point and had to be reassured by podcast guy it wasn't but most of the time was just overwhelmed with joyful crying.

PS:  There was somebody named Lauren on the show??  Honest, I don't remember her.  I'm already forgetting the "rest" of the cast as usual.

1 hour ago, eel2178 said:

How did Sia justify that their game play was worth the extra reward?

Like Scatterbrained said above.  It is always about whoever Sia likes.  If you get rich you too can give your favorite Survivors money as well, heh. 

Her first gift was to a sweet guy who loved animals as I recall.  It is about who touches her the most usually.  She said of Carolyn she really identified with her and that she was her favorite Survivor ever like I mentioned directly above.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Skooma

[violet and green]

5 hours ago, Skooma said:

It is embedded so really stands out and not just a link and is really good. 

I know. I posted it! 😁

[SummerDreams]

I finally finished this episode. Random comments:

I'm shocked Yam Yam won. What did he do to win? Nothing.

Carolyn was mostly normal in the final tribal council. This means she was faking all this craziness. Oh well. Never want to see her again.

I'm sorry to say but until Jaimie got voted out, I thought she was Heidi.

Heidi was this great mastermind in her head. I wonder how she felt when people were saying that for 8 episodes they didn't even know there was a Heidi in the show.

I love Frannie. I want to hug her and kiss her and tell her she is perfect.

I hate that Big Brother will start that late. It used to be a summer thing.

[Aethera]

On 5/26/2023 at 5:49 PM, LadyChatts said:

Frankly, I think CBS isn't making as much use for Paramount+ like they could when it comes to Survivor.  Why not show extended episodes on there that are for subscribers?  Bring back Ponderosa, show more deleted scenes, more interviews. 

At the mid-point of the season, when I'd forgotten half of who was still on the island, I went to the CBS site to look at the bios and such. Half the cbs.com/survivor site is dead - News and Photos hasn't had anything new posted since S40, the cast photos were there but all their bios were empty (still are), even the Winners page hasn't been updated since Season 35. It feels like CBS has stopped caring, if they can't even be bothered to load cast bios. 

I feel like the best thing about this season is how ably the cast themselves demonstrated the staleness. Carson winning at puzzles because he was able to 3D print them all, and then all the ones he tried showed up. The cast bringing everything to that tribal because they knew a beach switch was coming.  I understand new challenges are expensive to build but they have a HUGE library of them, and with the consistent location, they couldn't store more of them on-site? It's not like they're all huge - the final challenges in particular are often quite compact. I miss the variety.

I have a core group of co-workers who still watch, and we all got together last week after the finale aired and discussed. Everyone loved Carolyn and agreed her strategy was underestimated but that she did herself no favors in FTC. I honestly was not surprised that Yam Yam won, based on his words in FTC. He did play a social game but in a deeper way than just "let's get everyone to like me" - I thought he did a good job of manipulating people's emotions in multiple episodes. 

Edited May 29, 2023 by Aethera

[blackwing]

I think Yam Yam is a fine winner.  I really loathed him in the beginning but then I came to love him.  He was very strategic, doing what he had to in order to survive.  There were quite a number of times this season where he heard his name being thrown out and then he pivoted and addressed it.  He was also very social.  He was funny, self-deprecating and well liked by the cast.  

It was great of Heidi to win the final immunity and then to put herself into the final by taking out Carson.  She probably should have gotten more credit for that, if Carson had made it to the final he would have been the likely winner.  However, I feel like it didn't make up for her lack of visible gameplay as the season progressed.  I don't know if Sandra's "anybody but me" strategy would be viable anymore. 

She was a nameless face in the early part of the game.  Then post-merge, she made some really bad moves.  She was the sole vote against her #1 ally Danny when Frannie went out... why again?  The next vote, when Danny went out, why didn't she and Danny team up with Jamie and Lauren against the Tika Three?  Instead, she and Danny voted out Carson while the other two voted for her.  Then the Jamie vote, she could have teamed up with Jamie and Lauren to vote for Carolyn.  It would have been a tie vote, I think it would go to rocks.  Heidi and Lauren have nothing to lose and could have held firm.  I think Yam Yam and Carson wouldn't risk rocks and were thinking of getting rid of Carolyn anyways so might have flipped.

Heidi definitely could have done a lot more to make herself a way better candidate other than "I have all my friends on the jury and I made fire".

As for Carolyn, I knew she wouldn't win because she just isn't able to articulate well.  She did fly completely under the radar and get discounted, because as she admitted, she's a mess. Frannie tried to help her by validating "being emotional" as a strategy, but I feel like it wasn't a strategy, it's just who she is.  If she had done things emotionally on purpose, like using an outburst to manipulate people into voting with her, then yes.  But she didn't.  Instead she looked just as foolish as do-nothing finalist Julie Rosenberg who I believe also tried to say "being emotional" or "being nice" was her strategy.

Kudos to the Tika Three.  They were an openly brazen alliance and nobody really seemed to do anything to try and stop them in the post-merge votes.  Even when Danny and Heidi tried to vote out Carson (and Carolyn played an Idol for him), they couldn't get Lauren and Jamie onboard.

I enjoyed this season way more than I did Season 43.  Lots of likeable people.  Apart from the "they were on this season???" forgettable early boots, I ended up liking most everyone except for the ridiculous legend in her own mind Jamie and the pompous Matthew of the Broken Shoulder.

[blackwing]

20 hours ago, Aethera said:

I feel like the best thing about this season is how ably the cast themselves demonstrated the staleness. Carson winning at puzzles because he was able to 3D print them all, and then all the ones he tried showed up. The cast bringing everything to that tribal because they knew a beach switch was coming.  I understand new challenges are expensive to build but they have a HUGE library of them, and with the consistent location, they couldn't store more of them on-site? It's not like they're all huge - the final challenges in particular are often quite compact. I miss the variety.

Agreed.  Everything is repeated.  I hope Carson breezing through puzzles he printed and practiced at home was a wakeup call to the producers that they really need to change up the puzzles.  Good for him though.  I bet when he was printing the puzzles he was thinking he'd be lucky if even one of them showed up, and it seems from the way he did them so quickly that there was quite a number that he had practiced. 

My teenage daughter has watched every season and as soon as a challenge comes up, she can recite what season it showed up in.  And sometimes they combine some elements or change something and she can identify the minor changes.  The show truly needs some new challenges.  Everything seems to be obstacle course ending in puzzle. 

Another thing I really loved this season was how multiple people were unafraid of Jeffy and openly told him to shut up or that he is extremely annoying.  I've hated Jeffy for years now and I get why he talks, but it is just irritating.  When he was talking about how great Carolyn was, I was like really?  He did nothing but talk about how she was "completely out of it" or "way behind" or "struggling". 

The show has gotten a bit stale.  I think it's time for a new host.

[Nashville]

On 5/25/2023 at 5:42 PM, tracyscott76 said:

To me, this still doesn't indicate (and certainly doesn't justify) a show-mandated leeway to let Carson, or any other last juror, speak more than anyone else, which was your initial comment.

Hardly; I suggested I had a personal recollection the show might grant some extra leeway to the last juror, which is a far cry from claiming anything in the nature of a “show-mandated leeway” -   but I see no point in arguing the point further.

 

On 5/25/2023 at 5:42 PM, tracyscott76 said:

Yeah, he was obviously trying to help Carolyn - but that doesn't justify letting him dominate the questioning, either.

No argument here, but another question: did Carson really dominate the Jury side of the FTC conversation - or was that simply the impression imparted by Production’s FTC edit? To clarify:

1. Past contestants from multiple seasons have repeatedly stated normal TC discussions can easily run 3 or 4 hours, so I don’t think it would be egregiously out of order to assume the FTC discussion would be at least as long.
2. That (presumably) 3 to 4 hours of FTC discussion was edited down to a sum total of 20 minutes which TPTB decided to show us, which means approximately 90% of what was actually said at FTC ended up on the cutting room floor.
3. That’s 2.5 to 3.5 hours easy, which could be - almost certainly HAS to be, even - entire questions / answers / conversations / arguments we never got the chance to see.

So, your question might be more accurately phrased as: why was Production’s edit so slanted as give such an impression of Carson domination?  Did Carson really dominate such a massive chunk of the FTC conversation?  Or were the questions/comments of the other jurors so boring (OR so volatile) TPTB couldn’t see their way clear to putting them on the broadcast?

And to be perfectly clear: I’m simply raising possibilities for discussion, not stating them as fact.

[RedbirdNelly]

I didn't hate Yam Yam but I found the finale so dull--and the reunion part so dull as well. We've been watching since season 1 but walked away thinking it may be time for the show to end. I don't want jerk players but a little more strategy drama would be nice. I got very tired of the editing that tried to make you think maybe THIS time Tika would turn on each other. It was clear they were trying to create drama where there was none. I liked Lauren but I'd like to see no more tribals where everyone decides who is going home and we just spend a bunch of time watching that person give a tearful speech. 

[blackwing]

4 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

I liked Lauren but I'd like to see no more tribals where everyone decides who is going home and we just spend a bunch of time watching that person give a tearful speech. 

They showed her searching for the idol and made it ambiguous whether she actually found it or not by cutting to commercial.  Then when she came into tribal all confident and inviting votes, I really did think that she had the idol.  There was a question of whether 1) she has it, if so, we shouldn't put 4 votes on her, or 2) is she bluffing, but do we want to take the chance that she's not?  

However, she then completely ruined it by talking too much.  Her inordinately long sobbing "I'm so proud of myself and my kids will be proud of me" speech really confirmed that she in fact did not have the idol and that it was her goodbye speech.  I get that tribal council is really long, but she could have had her sobbing moment in a confessional before the vote and then the show could have used it whenever.  She really needed to hold it together, the fact that she couldn't was a complete giveaway that she didn't have an idol.

[LadyChatts]

12 hours ago, blackwing said:

The show has gotten a bit stale.  I think it's time for a new host.

I’d miss Jeff if he was replaced as host but I think the biggest issue is that Jeff is in charge of everything.  He’s the host, EP, and of course Lynne Spillman was fired as casting director a few seasons ago, so now Jeff has more say in that.  I thought it was boring when Survivor was casting a bunch of carbon copy cutout models that were recruited every season but dang, I miss those days over getting the same carbon copy casting types we get now.  I feel like they need to cast this show like they are doing a Survivor version of Melrose Place.  A kumbaya season with just people like Carson and Yam Yam wouldn’t get past episode 3.  
 

I do try to go a little easy on Jeff since I don’t know what exactly are his decisions and what are CBS’s, but it’s also obvious he doesn’t get a lot of things that have grown stale with the show and isn’t willing to listen to constructive criticism (unless it comes from people on the street or his celeb friends-anyone know Mike White’s number?).  I don’t even see how this makes for great TV anymore, when it’s the same thing with the same casting types every season.

Edited May 31, 2023 by LadyChatts

[Hanahope]

22 hours ago, blackwing said:

It was great of Heidi to win the final immunity and then to put herself into the final by taking out Carson.  She probably should have gotten more credit for that, if Carson had made it to the final he would have been the likely winner.  However, I feel like it didn't make up for her lack of visible gameplay as the season progressed.  I don't know if Sandra's "anybody but me" strategy would be viable anymore. 

She was a nameless face in the early part of the game.  Then post-merge, she made some really bad moves.  She was the sole vote against her #1 ally Danny when Frannie went out... why again?  The next vote, when Danny went out, why didn't she and Danny team up with Jamie and Lauren against the Tika Three?  Instead, she and Danny voted out Carson while the other two voted for her.  Then the Jamie vote, she could have teamed up with Jamie and Lauren to vote for Carolyn.  It would have been a tie vote, I think it would go to rocks.  Heidi and Lauren have nothing to lose and could have held firm.  I think Yam Yam and Carson wouldn't risk rocks and were thinking of getting rid of Carolyn anyways so might have flipped.

in a post season interview, Heidi explained that she did that vote against Danny because she knew he was safe and she wanted to prove to the others she could vote against him.

Danny and Heidi didn't trust Lauren and Jamie and vice versa.  that's why none of them would ever team up against any of the Tika.  i don't really understand why they kept trusting Tika who kept flipping back and forth, but kudos to those 3 to convince the others to keep targeting each other and allow the tika 3 to go almost to the end together.  

I think Yam Yam got lucky that Carson didn't win the F4 challenge or fire, because i think Carson would have won the game.  but we'll never know for sure.

[GenerationX]

Once the final five all agreed Carson was the biggest threat, his win in the Immunity Challenge was very likely.  Then, when it featured a complicated puzzle at the end, locked in.

Lauren's touching goodbye speech at Tribal Council tipped us off that she hadn't found the idol.  The fire-making result and final three were all foreshadowed, too, once Heidi won immunity.

The editors lavished screen time and attention on the entertaining and engaging Tika 3 all season, so it was fitting and satisfying that one of them won.  It happened to be my last choice of the three, but that's still more satisfying an ending than many seasons.

[iMonrey]

Quote

The show truly needs some new challenges.  Everything seems to be obstacle course ending in puzzle. 

I wonder if Jeff/the show thinks audiences just prefer those challenges over some of the simpler ones from the earlier seasons, like gross food eating challenges, the bottle breaking challenges, the question and answer challenges, etc. He might be under that impression due to feedback mostly from sycophants on Twitter, or even focus groups. Same with all the hidden idols and advantages, maybe he's under the impression the audience just loves those.

Unfortunately I think producers of shows tend to turn a deaf ear to criticism and write it off as "haters." They only listen to people who tell them they're doing great.

[Inga]

On 5/25/2023 at 2:37 PM, gingerella said:

The way Yam Yam consoled and helped Carson improve his fire making skills was just a really beautiful moment and speaks volumes about the type of person Yam Yam is in real life. I also was really happy for him winning in that he said he comes from a family of athletes and he is the odd one out, and yet he outlasted, outwitted, and outplayed everyone else to win this game that I'd bet his father and brother couldn't handle.

This!!! I really wish Jeff showed the jury members this scene during the reunion.  Yam Yam did not have to go out of his way to help Carson make fire. And when Carson broke down, i knew exactly how he felt at that moment and to have Yam Yam just stop and hug him was really beautiful it made me cry.  Yam Yam was like- u can do this— now try it right now! So kind! I wish Jeff showed the jurors this is who you voted for without even knowing this scene occurred. 

[Jobiska]

No shade on Heidi (or Carson for that matter), but I don't remember a less windy fire-making challenge.  She might still have been fastest, but y'know.

I will be glad to get away from the incongruous medieval props/theme.   Though co-opting culture is no better than overlaying European culture--but at least it's less startling and distracting (to me).  I know, I'm meta.

Every season I think Jeff's last-several-years' smarmy/fulsome voice in challenges can't get worse, and then it does.  Did he use to talk like that back in the day and I am just forgetting?  

I feel like there were fewer cool nature scenes this year (and that maybe they even reused some, like that ibis-whatever walking toward the surf) which has always been one of the best parts of the Fiji location.  

Less rain, eh?  No shivering teeth chattering scenes that I remember.  

[Kenzie]

5 hours ago, Jobiska said:

Did he use to talk like that back in the day and I am just forgetting?  

You remember correctly. Back in the first few seasons Jeff barely commented at all during challenges unless someone made a great move or was knocked silly. And there was no ear-splitting background music/clanging noise for him to need to scream over either.

[Heathrowe]

I liked YamYam, but I didn't think he could win.  I was wrong!

I can't believe NO ONE voted for Carolyn? WTF.

I always enjoy Survivor but this was a little snoozy, especially after Franny was eliminated? I was rooting for her, I guess. The challenges are all the same. Obstacle course, puzzle. Stand on something for a long time. 

I would love to see them have challenges like build a raft and row out to get something. That's sort of like a puzzle and a course. I don't know - I would need lots more ideas but I'd like to see more challenges in different locations that don't end up with a puzzle. 

[KeithJ]

https://people.com/sia-hosts-house-party-with-survivor-season-44-finalists-after-gifting-them-130k-7564908

What's really sad is that after reading this article, I had to come back here to see who actually won. lol

[SummerDreams]

1 hour ago, KeithJ said:

What's really sad is that after reading this article, I had to come back here to see who actually won. lol

I still don't remember. 😆

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, SummerDreams said:

1 hour ago, KeithJ said:

What's really sad is that after reading this article, I had to come back here to see who actually won. lol

I still don't remember. 😆

All I know is, it sure wasn't this guy:

Edited July 26, 2023 by tracyscott76