S01.E13: A Bad Temper And A Hard Heart

[Orbert]

There's a website that I was using as a reference for the episode broadcast order, once we learned that some of the early episodes were broadcast out of order, and this same site had listed the "two-hour season finale" after Episode 13, which was this most recent episode.  So someone got things mixed up, which is why I don't link or refer to it here.

It also lists the title of Episode 13 as "It Was The 80's" and still has it that way, even though the episode has been broadcast and we now know the actual title.

Edit: It looks like they removed the "two-hour season finale" placeholder and now refer to Episode 13 as the season finale.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Orbert

[DEL901]

25 minutes ago, Orbert said:

There's a website that I was using as a reference for the episode broadcast order, once we learned that some of the early episodes were broadcast out of order, and this same site had listed the "two-hour season finale" after Episode 13, which was this most recent episode.  So someone got things mixed up, which is why I don't link or refer to it here.

It also lists the title of Episode 13 as "It Was The 80's" and still has it that way, even though the episode has been broadcast and we now know the actual title.

Edit: It looks like they removed the "two-hour season finale" placeholder and now refer to Episode 13 as the season finale.

This was actually a good season ended.  When they filmed, they didn’t know if 5hey would be renewed, so they had to tie some things up, but still leave enough to provide interest for next season.  

[possibilities]

5 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

No, this was the finale. Must be repeats next week.

 

My DVR says there is a 2 hour Episode 14 next week, which they say is new, and is airing for the first time on May 8th.

"With Angie on leave, Will and Faith partner up with Oremwood to investigate a strong of cases tied to Will's childhoo; after locting a secret message from a missing APD agent, Will relizes the answers he seeks have been in front of him all along"

I admit the description seems like what we just saw, but the ABC show page also lists it as Episode 14 (with the one we saw this week as Ep 13).

It's damn confusing. 

Though I like that they may be trying to attract more viwers. A lot of shows nver get repeats at all these days.

[Sarah 103]

On 5/4/2023 at 3:45 PM, possibilities said:

I was thinking maybe Amanda being a lesbian would be used against her, more even than being single. For sure lesbians couldn't adopt until recently, and even genetic parents who were not straight were threatened with losing their children in some cases.

If Amanda was a lesbian than I would completely understand why she wasn't allowed adopt in 1986. That would be a totally plausible reason that would make absolute sense. 

[b4pjoe]

On 5/5/2023 at 12:04 PM, possibilities said:

I thought this was the season finale, but then I see there's 2 hours of the show next week.

I may be mistaken, but I thought thy showed Amanda with her ex in an episode earlier in the season, when she get involved in that case with the family in the car who was murdered and their baby survived and was raised elsewhere, then came back as an adult and was killing in revenge?

The two hour show this week is a repeat of episodes 12 and 13.

[LuvMyShows]

On 5/3/2023 at 11:38 PM, possibilities said:

Also, I am not sure what knowing the name of the scent would have done to help them find the perp. It turned out it DID help them-- because it was tied to a location. But if it had just been some aftershave or somesuch, how does knowing its name help them find the guy? Can they put out a bulletin saying "the suspect smells like XX brand?" Would the search team know what that smells like?

It wasn't ever about the name of the scent...it was about figuring out what the scent was.  Even when Paul figured it out, the scent was never named.  He simply recognized it as the soap and lotion from the By George restaurant.  But if the name of the scent had been determined, it still could have been helpful exactly as it was in this case, or used later if they hadn't figured out it was James, and some victims or witnesses come forward and maybe they can at least confirm the smell. 

[possibilities]

I'm trying to imagine a line up where they have someone sniffing the suspects rathe than looking at them through glass.

I guess this show doesn't use line ups, though.

 

[Clanstarling]

18 hours ago, possibilities said:

I'm trying to imagine a line up where they have someone sniffing the suspects rathe than looking at them through glass.

I guess this show doesn't use line ups, though.

That sounds like fun though...I can think of scenarios where that might actually be a better means of identification.

[NJRadioGuy]

23 hours ago, possibilities said:

I'm trying to imagine a line up where they have someone sniffing the suspects rathe than looking at them through glass.

I guess this show doesn't use line ups, though.

5 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

That sounds like fun though...I can think of scenarios where that might actually be a better means of identification.

IRL, lineups are almost never done in person. Investigators use what they call a "six pack"—six head shot photos of similarly-looking faces, where one of them is the potential suspect. Usually it's just head and shoulders, with each image being about the size of a passport photo. Some departments will have six individual 5x7 or 4 x 6 photos shown one after the other. Witnesses are asked to circle and initial their choice, if they make one. The days of the in-person lineup are LONG gone. Sample as found online:

Edited May 11, 2023 by NJRadioGuy

[possibilities]

That sounds like a way to decrease accuracy.

I still think a sniff'em with a blindfold process would be tv-friendly.

[seacliffsal]

Ahem, there was an episode of Psych (Gus' Dad May Have Killed an Old Man [or something similar to that]) in which Gus used a scent to find the murderer (it was "white linen" perfume I believe...).  So, scent detection has been used (what do you mean Psych isn't real life?!?).

I don't understand how James knew that Will was Lucy's son-and if he had known it for a while, why was it just now that he started killing again?  With that though, I thought this was a tense and good season finale.  Oh, and Betty, once again, turned another 'hater' into a 'lover.'

[Ceindreadh]

On 5/16/2023 at 10:02 PM, seacliffsal said:

Ahem, there was an episode of Psych (Gus' Dad May Have Killed an Old Man [or something similar to that]) in which Gus used a scent to find the murderer (it was "white linen" perfume I believe...).  So, scent detection has been used (what do you mean Psych isn't real life?!?).

I don't understand how James knew that Will was Lucy's son-and if he had known it for a while, why was it just now that he started killing again?  With that though, I thought this was a tense and good season finale.  Oh, and Betty, once again, turned another 'hater' into a 'lover.'

IIRC, they mentioned that after the events of the first episode that there'd been a feature article on Will which mentioned him having been found in a trashcan.  James must have seen it and realised that Will had survived.

 

As for why he stopped killing for so long, I think he was possibly smart enough to know that if the killings stopped after his scapegoat (Juice) was in jail, then that would be case closed as far as the police were concerned.

[bybrandy]

On 5/16/2023 at 4:02 PM, seacliffsal said:

Ahem, there was an episode of Psych (Gus' Dad May Have Killed an Old Man [or something similar to that]) in which Gus used a scent to find the murderer (it was "white linen" perfume I believe...).  So, scent detection has been used (what do you mean Psych isn't real life?!?).

I don't understand how James knew that Will was Lucy's son-and if he had known it for a while, why was it just now that he started killing again?  With that though, I thought this was a tense and good season finale.  Oh, and Betty, once again, turned another 'hater' into a 'lover.'

We don't get to read the article about Paul Campano and Will Trent but it wouldn't shock me if the article mentioned Will was found in a trash can.   That detail and the approximate dates would have pinged for him.  He might not have known Will's name before that.  Or just seeing it all might have brought it back.

 

Why kill all the others?  To torment Will and because he is a person who likes killing.   There is also a possiblity that he hoped to frame Will for he crimes.   

 

There are two possibilities for why he went dormant (and serial killers have before) 1) with Juice in prison and then dead the heat is off him.   He stops and then he sees the story and he's right back there.  

Th other darker alternative is he didn't stop just switched MOs and some unsolved serial murders will be linked to him in season 3.   After all he is on life support but not dead in the finale.

I was supsicious of Greg German because he's Greg Germann but I wasn't 100% convinced because this show has used Jennier Morrison for two episodes with no return, Mark Paul Gosslear as recurring (and I for sure pegged him as the killer in the first episode for being MPG) and French Stewart who obviously was a bad guy but not in a hey this random guest star turns out to be he bad guy but in a way you KNOW who he is the moment you meet him, so they've a little bit subverted this trope... and stll I was like, "I mean the killer is probably Greg Germann)   

 

And if I was Will I'd be getting a DNA test just to be sure.

[crowsworks]

On 5/3/2023 at 9:30 AM, MDL said:

 

2) Near the end of the episode, when Will was at his desk looking through evidence documents, the young woman who comforted him was his mother “Lucy”(?), and she was a creation of, and existed only in his mind.

I think it was implied he fell asleep and dreamed.

On 5/3/2023 at 11:03 PM, twoods said:

I hope that Angie isn’t paralyzed next season. Hearing that the sicko crushed her spine and head seems like she’s going to have a lot of medical issues next season.

She put Betty in the hamper. aww. Like Angie even if I want to pounce on her with a hairbrush.

[akg]

On 5/3/2023 at 11:38 PM, possibilities said:

Also, I am not sure what knowing the name of the scent would have done to help them find the perp. It turned out it DID help them-- because it was tied to a location. But if it had just been some aftershave or somesuch, how does knowing its name help them find the guy? Can they put out a bulletin saying "the suspect smells like XX brand?" Would the search team know what that smells like?

I'm not sure the actual members of law enforcement were expecting much (Will seemed a little dismissive) but I think MPG's character latched on to identifying the scent as something he could do instead of just stand around worrying. He pretends he doesn't care about Angie and Will but it's obvious he does, his obsession with what Betty smelled like could have just been one more sign of that (also, I loved the scene when Betty kept climbing into his lap despite being removed (gently!) every time).

On 5/4/2023 at 4:15 PM, tennisgurl said:

I hope that Angie is alright, the killer went to town on her back, she's already got so much going on she doesn't need permanent damage that could get her off active duty.

I agree. I also hope we don't get an "addicted to pain killers" story line for her.

On 6/21/2023 at 6:24 PM, Ceindreadh said:

IIRC, they mentioned that after the events of the first episode that there'd been a feature article on Will which mentioned him having been found in a trashcan.  James must have seen it and realised that Will had survived.

On 5/3/2023 at 1:27 AM, possibilities said:

And why was he having all the kids from the foster home tracked? I didn't understand that. I understood he wanted to hurt Will. And Angie was a way to hurt Will. But why was he having Percival track all of them? He didn't need any help finding Will and Angie, they worked for the Dept and he knew that. So that whole business with Percival and Paul and the children's home last week seemed like it didn't add up based on this week's resolution.

The picture James left for Will in the group home in the gift box was from the article they'd shown earlier so he had definitely read it. And someone mentioned the journalist has included the "Trashcan" story so it wouldn't have been hard for James to put the pieces together (especially if Will looks like his mother as Amanda claimed).

As for James' motive for the new killings, I think he wanted to torture the person he blamed for Lucy's death by making Will wonder what was going on and worry about his friends and the kids he'd grown up with. He used Percy to do legwork verifying identities but also as a red herring. The final step in James' plan was to make Will watch him kill Angie so he could feel what James felt when Lucy died (James was definitely not sane).

On 5/3/2023 at 8:17 PM, greekmom said:

I can't believe that Social Services would rather see a child in foster care system (which they would have to pay) or in a children's home than with a single person.  What stupidity.

Faith's mom (I am horrible with names) told Will that Social Services had assured Amanda that they had an adoption by a great family all lined up but that something must have fallen through. We don't know what happened there (and may never know).

[Atlanta]

I've never gotten the idea that Amanda is a lesbian 

Spoiler

(she's not in the books)

. She's too hardened from her career. 

Spoiler

In the books evil Angie kills Will's father and leaves him the red nail polish.

 

Edited January 16 by Atlanta

[mrsbagnet]

On 1/15/2024 at 8:57 PM, Atlanta said:

I've never gotten the idea that Amanda is a lesbian 

In episode 3, the team meets an old friend of Amanda's who is a journalist. Amanda never explicitly explains the nature of their relationship, but the way the two of them interact, plus some comments Faith makes, heavily imply that Amanda and the journalist had a sexual relationship. When Faith tries to ask about her about it, Amanda tells her, "Mind your business."

[snarktini]

On 6/21/2023 at 3:24 PM, Ceindreadh said:

IIRC, they mentioned that after the events of the first episode that there'd been a feature article on Will which mentioned him having been found in a trashcan.  James must have seen it and realised that Will had survived.

I'm so glad this comment section helped me out with this detail! I missed where the photo we saw came from and didn't remember the article.

There had to be a trigger, some reason he was doing this to lure / hurt Will at this moment in time and not before. This tracks.
 

On 1/25/2024 at 6:44 PM, mrsbagnet said:

In episode 3, the team meets an old friend of Amanda's who is a journalist. Amanda never explicitly explains the nature of their relationship, but the way the two of them interact, plus some comments Faith makes, heavily imply that Amanda and the journalist had a sexual relationship. When Faith tries to ask about her about it, Amanda tells her, "Mind your business."

Yes, I left that scene 100% sure that Amanda was getting busy with the journalist, and not for the first time. We also know that Amanda was married, Faith's mom mentioned that Trent was her maiden name. Did we learn who she was married to?

I liked this show! I agree it's disjointed at times but I like the characters. We've certainly seen the oddball, trauma-survivor, hyper observant detective before but Will manages to feel a little different. I like that he has more humor and big-heartedness than this type of character is often given.

[Ceindreadh]

10 hours ago, snarktini said:

I'm so glad this comment section helped me out with this detail! I missed where the photo we saw came from and didn't remember the article.

There had to be a trigger, some reason he was doing this to lure / hurt Will at this moment in time and not before. This tracks.
 

Yes, I left that scene 100% sure that Amanda was getting busy with the journalist, and not for the first time. We also know that Amanda was married, Faith's mom mentioned that Trent was her maiden name. Did we learn who she was married to?

I liked this show! I agree it's disjointed at times but I like the characters. We've certainly seen the oddball, trauma-survivor, hyper observant detective before but Will manages to feel a little different. I like that he has more humor and big-heartedness than this type of character is often given.

IIRC, Trent was Amanda’s mother’s maiden name, not her own.