S22.E19: Private Lives

[WendyCR72]

Airing April 27, 2023:

Quote

Cosgrove and Shaw investigate the murder of a physician whose politician wife suspects she was the intended target. Price and Maroun's case hangs in the balance when the defense calls one of the doctor's young patients to testify as a witness.

 

[dubbel zout]

15 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Price and Maroun's case hangs in the balance when the defense calls one of the doctor's young patients to testify as a witness.

Probably another witness the prosecution is totally unprepared to cross-examine.

[Spartan Girl]

I get why they pled the asshole out to protect Taylor, but I hate that Price and Maroun were made out to be the assholes when it was the dad and his bitch lawyer willing to throw a child under the bus just to preserve his delusion that he was “protecting” his child. Abusers never think of themselves as abusers, but it’s not love, it’s control. Fuck that bastard. His wife better have divorced his ass if she was so concerned about Taylor’s well-being.

Also, wouldn’t Taylor feel more terrible for not testifying after the doctor went out of his way to help her? Just saying…

I felt bad for the victim’s wife. I don’t blame her for ripping Price a new one.

Edited April 30, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[Demian]

13 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

his bitch lawyer

I just couldn't get past the fact that the bitch lawyer was played by Brooke Smith.  Like, is Catherine Martin taking out her issues with Buffalo Bill on this poor little trans kid now, 32 years after she was stuck in that pit for a week?

[Spartan Girl]

1 minute ago, Demian said:

I just couldn't get past the fact that the bitch lawyer was played by Brooke Smith.  Like, is Catherine Martin taking out her issues with Buffalo Bill on this poor little trans kid now, 32 years after she was stuck in that pit for a week?

I KNEW she looked familiar!

[storyskip]

I’m getting tired of the writers setting up St. Maroun who makes all the politically comfortable arguments, and then leaves Price to take the heat. I agree that the victims’s wife had every right to be pissed but she should have been yelling at Maroun or Jack.

I get that as the lead prosecutor it’s Price’s job but I’ve lost track of how many times there is a moral / PC argument, Maroun convinces Jack of X position though Price argues for Y, they go with X and then Price gets lamblasted by the family/friends/etc. 

 

[Xeliou66]

Can someone inform me what happened in the last 15 minutes of the episode? A fucking severe weather warning interrupted the episode and by the time it ended SVU was on. Fucking pissed me off.

From what I did see I once again liked the detective side better than the legal side - I liked the investigative work, although I wish Dixon had been more involved since it was a high profile case. But on the legal side they seemed somewhat unprepared again from what I saw and Price was getting on my nerves letting his personal views interfere with the case, I was glad Jack reminded him to tell the jury the victim didn’t deserve to die. Very irritating that I couldn’t see the last 15 minutes.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Xeliou66

[Door County Cherry]

5 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I felt bad for the victim’s wife. I don’t blame her for ripping Price a new one.

I can't muster up that much sympathy for her.  Her biggest complaint was that she "threw away her career" to testify and tried to guilt Price by saying someone might replace her who holds more abhorrible views.  Sure.  Maybe.  But one thing the case revealed is that her public hardliner stance had an element of political posturing involved given the work her husband did.  She made the lives of trans kids harder in order to garner votes but she wants to lecture Price on seeing them as humans? I do not think so.

Plus, one thing I wish they had explored a bit is whether or not her public stance played a part in Taylor's father's inability to accept his daughter. 

In addition, the decision to offer a deal was a purely pragmatic one.  They were afraid that a preteen, who has had difficulty discussing her dysphoria  to strangers, who has lost her doctor might not hold up well up against the harsh questioning of her father's lawyer.  And they were worried about the effect that might have on the case.  Protecting Taylor was protecting the case.  And I'd like to know how Price and the wife would have reacted had they lost the case because of it. 

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Can someone inform me what happened in the last 15 minutes of the episode? A fucking severe weather warning interrupted the episode and by the time it ended SVU was on. Fucking pissed me off.

The congresswoman testified that the dad threatened her husband.  They also discovered that the guidance counselor pulled Taylor out of class so she could visit the victim for care but they discovered there was one day that she was pulled from class when the counselor was out sick.  They wondered who could have done that.  That's when they realized/discovered that Taylor's mother had changed her mind because she saw Taylor suffering so much after her father said she had to stop taking the puberty blockers.  

So essentially, it undercut the defense's argument that the doctor attacked the husband when he threated to call the police.  Since he had the mother's permission, he wouldn't have been worried about the cops coming. 

The defense decided they were going to call Taylor herself.  That's when they decided, for pragmatic reasons, to offer a deal.  (See above.)  The congresswoman was very upset when Price visited her.  

Overall, I thought this was a pretty solid episode.  The investigation part went well but I think even the legal stuff was better than it has been for most of this season.  The only truly wtf moment I had was when Price seemed surprised the defense was planning to call Taylor.  I hate when the show forgets that a witness list needs to be supplied at the beginning of the trial so these witnesses--with the exception of last minute witnesses-- should not come as a surprise.  

[Spartan Girl]

2 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

I can't muster up that much sympathy for her.  Her biggest complaint was that she "threw away her career" to testify and tried to guilt Price by saying someone might replace her who holds more abhorrible views.  Sure.  Maybe.  But one thing the case revealed is that her public hardliner stance had an element of political posturing involved given the work her husband did.  She made the lives of trans kids harder in order to garner votes but she wants to lecture Price on seeing them as humans? I do not think so.

Plus, one thing I wish they had explored a bit is whether or not her public stance played a part in Taylor's father's inability to accept his daughter.

Valid, but the dad being a bigot and an abuser can’t be laid at anyone else’s feet. If he chose to listen to her stance instead of his child, that’s on him. 

I just don’t get why his wife didn’t spend more time trying to shame HIM into not making his daughter testify instead of Price and Maroun. Again, he and Bitch!Catherine Walker were the assholes here, not them.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[storyskip]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

Valid, but the dad being a bigot and an abuser can’t be laid at anyone else’s feet. If he chose to listen to her stance instead of his child, that’s on him. 

I just don’t get why his wife didn’t spend more time trying to shame HIM into not making his daughter testify instead of Price and Maroun. Again, he and Bitch!Catherine Walker were the assholes here, not them.

You answered your own question.  The husband was abusive. Maybe he didn’t physically beat his wife or his child but he was emotionally and mentally abusive and clearly the head of the household.

The wife was obviously scared of her husband, which is why she went behind his back to give Taylor permission to resume the treatment. 

[Raja]

When I was 40 something if giving the choice between 25 to life or pleading to 25 years I would roll the dice. Does New York State actually have no chance for early parole in a X years to life sentence?

But how many congressional districts are in the 27th's beat? It seems almost impossible that the safe conservative New York seat, where being flanked to the right is the fear could exist within it.

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, storyskip said:

You answered your own question.  The husband was abusive. Maybe he didn’t physically beat his wife or his child but he was emotionally and mentally abusive and clearly the head of the household.

The wife was obviously scared of her husband, which is why she went behind his back to give Taylor permission to resume the treatment. 

Yeah but I thought that she grew a spine when she testified against him. Guess not so much.

She isn’t exactly guiltless in all this. If she cared they much about Taylor’s well being, she would have gotten a divorce when it was clear that he was never going to accept Taylor for who she was. The reason why Taylor was so emotionally fragile was because she was complicit in keeping Taylor trapped in the wrong body until things escalated the way they did. She came around in the end, but if she had acted sooner, the doctor might still be alive.

The doctor’s wife wouldn’t have cared so much about throwing away her political career if her husband had gotten justice. Even if it was a practical move, pleading out for 15 years is not justice. It just sends another dog whistle to the “parents rights” people that they can take matters into their own hands if threatened.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[storyskip]

2 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Yeah but I thought that she grew a spine when she testified against him. Guess not so much.

Eh, it's not about growing a spine and her situation is one where (in real life) stones shouldn't be cast.  But for fictional world purposes.

Providing testimony, the wife was reacting to the DAs office; reacting to the direction of and threats from the outside.  Yes, she testified, but from a passive position, Price and Maroun dragged it out of her, she never walked into Price's office and said "Hey. There is something you need to know."

She was never in an emotional or mental place where she was going to stand up to her husband directly, and given what he did to the doctor honestly I'd be hard put to blame her for being in fear of her husband's temper.

If she 'grew a spine' out of the situation, hopefully it was enough of a spine for her to use the next 15 years to sue him for divorce, grab Taylor and run as far away from New York as they could manage. 

[dubbel zout]

6 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

The only truly wtf moment I had was when Price seemed surprised the defense was planning to call Taylor.  I hate when the show forgets that a witness list needs to be supplied at the beginning of the trial so these witnesses--with the exception of last minute witnesses-- should not come as a surprise.

Same! And Price didn't make that argument in court when he heard the defense planned to call Taylor. At least throw us that bone, Show.

59 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Even if it was a practical move, pleading out for 15 years is not justice.

It's not nothing, though. One of the stipulations of the plea bargain could be serving the entire 15 years. It's too bad the show doesn't want to make time for more nuance here and there.

[Raja]

7 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

It's not nothing, though. One of the stipulations of the plea bargain could be serving the entire 15 years. It's too bad the show doesn't want to make time for more nuance here and there.

When the argument comes down to is life the only punishment that provides justice that the survivors would accept when  DA McCoy says make a deal there is no deal to be made that would be acceptable. That Price offered the same penalty that every conviction gets on the show as the first offer in the deal I was thinking was that some sort of joke and was hoping for one of the more strident defense attorneys to say that for me.

[shapeshifter]

Unlike the other reboot episodes, this episode only had one bit of missing dialog, IMO. 
When Price was talking to the victim's wife about the plea deal, and she was very angry about it, Price failed to mention Jack McCoy's main reason for offering a plea deal instead of letting the defense put the child on the stand as a witness: 

• [JACK] Putting Taylor on the stand presents a credible risk to our case. And if she breaks down, it could bolster the argument that she wasn't old enough to make any of these decisions herself, or that medication's screwing her up. In which case, Myers will walk, and we'll have traumatized an innocent child for nothing.

 

 

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

It's not nothing, though. One of the stipulations of the plea bargain could be serving the entire 15 years. It's too bad the show doesn't want to make time for more nuance here and there.

That's more in line with what I was thinking. 
15 years in prison is a very long time. 
I don't have the feelings of vitriol for the characters as others have expressed. 
I think most of the characters were just really dazed and confused and miserable.
Beating someone to death with a lamp is awful, but it didn't seem to be premeditated. I mean, it's not like he brought a weapon.

[dubbel zout]

IRL, I'm pretty sure the grand jury indictment would have included lesser charges. But we don't even hear about the grand jury anymore unless it's a plot point. We also rarely get pretrial discussions where a plea bargain might first be raised. Again, we've lost a lot of nuance with the reboot.

[blackwing]

So in the end, the father was perfectly willing to sacrifice his child in an effort to bolster his chances that he gets found not guilty.  I hope Taylor remembers this.  I find it hard to believe, I think most parents would gladly accept any kind of consequences to protect their children.  I feel like we just saw this on L&O, where the parent confesses to a crime in order to protect their child.  So it was a real shock and twist to me that the father was supremely selfish (and supported by his heartless lawyer) and was willing to risk his child.

I didn't like the fact that he got a plea deal instead of getting found guilty and sent to prison for life.  But I'm thankful that given the trend of recent L&O episodes ending in "SOMETHING BAD" happening, I'm glad that the episode didn't end with Maroun walking into the office and telling Price and McCoy that Taylor killed herself.

17 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I get why they pled the asshole out to protect Taylor, but I hate that Price and Maroun were made out to be the assholes when it was the dad and his bitch lawyer willing to throw a child under the bus just to preserve his delusion that he was “protecting” his child. Abusers never think of themselves as abusers, but it’s not love, it’s control. Fuck that bastard. His wife better have divorced his ass if she was so concerned about Taylor’s well-being.

Also, Taylor feel more terrible that for not testifying after the doctor went out of his way to help her? Just saying…

I felt bad for the victim’s wife. I don’t blame her for ripping Price a new one.

Yes.  I feel like we missed a scene of the mom talking with the dad and his lawyer to convince him not to make Taylor testify.  It was his fault that Taylor was going to be put on the stand, not Price and Maroun's.

15 hours ago, storyskip said:

I’m getting tired of the writers setting up St. Maroun who makes all the politically comfortable arguments, and then leaves Price to take the heat. I agree that the victims’s wife had every right to be pissed but she should have been yelling at Maroun or Jack.

I get that as the lead prosecutor it’s Price’s job but I’ve lost track of how many times there is a moral / PC argument, Maroun convinces Jack of X position though Price argues for Y, they go with X and then Price gets lamblasted by the family/friends/etc. 

This.  I agree with you that more often than not it's seemingly always Price's role to look like the asshole.  Maroun always comes in with her moral objections from her high horse, and Price is left looking like the ass.  Why?  

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

the father was supremely selfish (and supported by his heartless lawyer)

The lawyer was doing what her client wanted. Professional ethics demand that, as long as she's not suborning perjury or another illegal act.

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

I feel like we missed a scene of the mom talking with the dad and his lawyer to convince him not to make Taylor testify.  It was his fault that Taylor was going to be put on the stand, not Price and Maroun's.

Another lack of nuance. Sigh.

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

Maroun always comes in with her moral objections from her high horse, and Price is left looking like the ass.  Why?  

I wonder if it's to show that Maroun still has some youthful idealism left, and Price has been around the block enough to know what's more realistic? It doesn't do either character any favors.

[Xeliou66]

I finally got to watch the whole episode, it was decent, but once again it seemed like the legal side was underdeveloped, Price/Maroun should’ve known about the mom signing the kid out of class and allowing the doctor to give her treatments before the trial began, and they should’ve anticipated the defense trying to call Taylor. I thought making the plea deal was the right move, and I thought it was wrong of the politician to accuse Price of playing politics with his plea bargain. Once again I thought the investigation was better than the legal stuff. I wish both McCoy and Dixon had had larger roles in this episode given the high profile nature of the case. Middle of the road episode overall, not as good as some this season but not as many flaws as some others.

[TexasGal]

The mom was so over acting during the initial trial scenes that I completely knew we’d find out she had consented to the treatment.  
 

But when I saw Dr. Isles as the politician wife I thought she’d end up the criminal so I didn’t predict everything.

[bref]

Was anyone else jolted by Maroun's use of the word "boobs" instead of breasts? Seemed completely out of character.

[Guncle Adam]

6 hours ago, bref said:

Was anyone else jolted by Maroun's use of the word "boobs" instead of breasts? Seemed completely out of character.

That jumped out to me also. I skipped back and replayed it convinced I'd heard it wrong. But nope. She said boobs. 

An aside — The opening credits flash LAW, and credit the cops, then ORDER and credit the prosecutors. Isn't that ass-backward? Don't the cops maintain order, and the lawyers practice, well, the law. Has anyone else spent two decades wondering about that? No? Just me? 🤓

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Guncle Adam said:

An aside — The opening credits flash LAW, and credit the cops, then ORDER and credit the prosecutors. Isn't that ass-backward? Don't the cops maintain order, and the lawyers practice, well, the law. Has anyone else spent two decades wondering about that? No? Just me? 🤓

So say we all!

[buttersister]

Order in the court! 😀

[shapeshifter]

7 minutes ago, buttersister said:

Order in the court! 😀

But it is the bailiff who enforces “Order in the court!” and it sounds like a bailiff is pretty much a police officer: wikipedia.org/wiki/Bailiff#United_States 
🤔hmmmm…  
Is this the origin story of how they got the Law and the Order of Law & Order backwards?!?

[Guncle Adam]

10 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

But it is the bailiff who enforces “Order in the court!” and it sounds like a bailiff is pretty much a police officer: wikipedia.org/wiki/Bailiff#United_States 
🤔hmmmm…  
Is this the origin story of how they got the Law and the Order of Law & Order backwards?!?

I'll stipulate that it makes (a little bit of?) sense to credit the two casts in the order that they appear in the story. To avoid mass confusion, I guess? (Personally I think I could handle the cognitive dissonance of seeing Hugh Dancy's name first, but maybe they ran a focus group.)

BUT

Crediting the cops first would  actually be FINE, had they not deliberately inserted the words LAW and ORDER as literal topic headers for the actors. That's where they lose me. 🤯

[WendyCR72]

While entertaining [and maybe true!], the discussion about the opening credits seems to be ongoing, so let's keep it to the episode.

If you wish to continue this topic [which seems to have occurred in every L&O show forum], please feel free to do so in the Small Talk thread.

Thank you!

[Samsnee]

Old Law & Order would have probably handled this social issue better. 
 

 

[Raja]

18 minutes ago, Samsnee said:

Old Law & Order would have probably handled this social issue better. 
 

 

Times and viewers standards have changed since 1990.

[CrystalBlue]

On 4/29/2023 at 12:43 PM, bref said:

Was anyone else jolted by Maroun's use of the word "boobs" instead of breasts? Seemed completely out of character.

Yes, it slightly jolted me.  Especially since Maroun was referring to puberty blockers blocking said body parts.  I thought Taylor was born a male and was transitioning to female, so of course she'd want breasts to grow.  I'm so confused 😕.

On 4/28/2023 at 4:30 PM, TexasGal said:

The mom was so over acting during the initial trial scenes that I completely knew we’d find out she had consented to the treatment.  
 

But when I saw Dr. Isles as the politician wife I thought she’d end up the criminal so I didn’t predict everything.

I was getting ready for the reveal that Taylor's mom was really who bashed the good doctor to death because the whole thing was ruining her career.

[CrystalBlue]

On 4/30/2023 at 1:31 PM, WendyCR72 said:

While entertaining [and maybe true!], the discussion about the opening credits seems to be ongoing, so let's keep it to the episode.

If you wish to continue this topic [which seems to have occurred in every L&O show forum], please feel free to do so in the Small Talk thread.

Thank you!

My $0.02 is in Small Talk.

[wknt3]

On 4/28/2023 at 7:59 AM, Raja said:

11But how many congressional districts are in the 27th's beat? It seems almost impossible that the safe conservative New York seat, where being flanked to the right is the fear could exist within it.

If there is one thing we have learned over the years it's that the 2-7, much like Walt Whitman contains multitudes...

[tvfanatic13]

I was just happy to see Dr. Maura Isles again. 

[Jenniferbug]

A subtle thing I noticed when watching this again was that as soon as it's revealed that Taylor is a girl, everyone immediately switches to using feminine pronouns and referring to Taylor as a girl/daughter. It's a small thing, but it says a lot. 

[incandescent]

When they had the requisite police chase with the kid, I really questioned to myself whether or not they were gonna show either of these 6-foot-tall men tackling a shrimpy little pubescent child.