Chit-Chat: What's On Your Mind Today?

[Yeah No]

19 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Perhaps they were wearing the lightest weight clothes for when they had to step on the scales?
Don't we all do that to some degree given the opportunity?😆

Ha, I totally spaced out on that 2 days ago when I got weighed in and got "scale shock" when I saw the number.  Seriously I was wearing the heaviest sweater, jeans and boots I own - what was I thinking?  I usually go wearing light layers so I can remove one or two before stepping on the scale and slip on shoes. Lesson learned.

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, annzeepark914 said:

No. This was in a hospital waiting room and I doubt they go to a gym 😏.

Speaking of hospitals, I was at one recently for an on-going/chronic health issue that I'll always have and thought I had been transported back to 1995 because one young lady was wearing the almost-to-exact outfit I owned back then (minus the fishnets)!

[annzeepark914]

33 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Perhaps they were wearing the lightest weight clothes for when they had to step on the scales?
Don't we all do that to some degree given the opportunity?😆

These two young women (maybe sisters) were with another person (maybe mother) in a surgical waiting room a couple days ago. So these clothes were their street clothes. They weren't patients.

[ABay]

Trying so hard not be snarky. The policing of women's bodies, e.g. clothes, by other women makes me feel like feminism never happened (to quote one of the threads on the site)

[Yeah No]

20 minutes ago, ABay said:

Trying so hard not be snarky. The policing of women's bodies, e.g. clothes, by other women makes me feel like feminism never happened (to quote one of the threads on the site)

Trying not to be snarky either, but one of my idols, Gloria Steinem was always a fashion statement.  I feel that feminism includes celebrating the power of the female body and spirit in every way and if I don't feel that someone on a reality show is doing that to their best advantage I think I'm entitled to expressing an opinion on it.  I'm not policing them or their bodies.  I want women to succeed, this is not "mean girls" with me. 

https://www.vogue.co.uk/fashion/article/gloria-steinem-style

[Fool to cry]

I'm siding with the mom on this one:

 

 

[Yeah No]

55 minutes ago, Fool to cry said:

I'm siding with the mom on this one:

 

 

I agree with this mother because whose mind is a card catalog of everything they once liked?  Younger people don't have as much history as older folks do so it's easier for them to have a decade or so of music digitalized but older people have several decades of music in our past and we don't have the time, money nor the inclination to digitalize every one of them and have them catalogued somewhere on a device so we can easily refer to them.  Plus there's that tactile satisfaction we get from putting our hands on a book, magazine, record album or CD.  There is actually a movement of young people (Millennials mostly) that love records and in the past few years companies have even put out new releases of both new and old music on vinyl because even many younger people believe they sound more realistic.  My 38 year old nephew is one of them.

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

Trying not to be snarky either, but one of my idols, Gloria Steinem was always a fashion statement.  I feel that feminism includes celebrating the power of the female body and spirit in every way and if I don't feel that someone on a reality show is doing that to their best advantage I think I'm entitled to expressing an opinion on it.  I'm not policing them or their bodies.  I want women to succeed, this is not "mean girls" with me. 

https://www.vogue.co.uk/fashion/article/gloria-steinem-style

This.  And if you mean me, good thing that girl was not at the office.  Looking like you’re still working from home where pants are optional is not office appropriate.  I also saw a guy wearing a skin tone top once.  Same area.  

[Calvada]

2 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Ha, I totally spaced out on that 2 days ago when I got weighed in and got "scale shock" when I saw the number.  Seriously I was wearing the heaviest sweater, jeans and boots I own - what was I thinking?  I usually go wearing light layers so I can remove one or two before stepping on the scale and slip on shoes. Lesson learned.

About 20 years ago I went to the doctor to be tested for strep/mono and I had to wait for a long, long time while feeling quite ill.  I was wearing a mask in the waiting room which at that time was unusual and everyone else there treated me like I was Typhoid Mary (quite appropriately) as I huddled in the far corner wondering if I would have the energy to stand up and move when they called my name.  When I finally got called in, the nurse asked me to step on the scale.  I said I'm not here for a checkup, only a strep test and blood draw.  She insisted when I just wanted to get the hell out of there, try to stay awake for my drive home, and collapse back into bed.  OK, fine!  I stepped on the scale wearing my heavy winter boots, long wool coat, 2 layers of clothes, and holding my totebag with my purse and assorted other items such as a box of tissues, bottle of water, keys, scarf, hat & gloves.  The nurse asked if I wanted to take my coat off or remove my boots or put my bag down and I said Nope! in a pretty definite tone.  Fast forward several months to my annual checkup and the doctor mentioned I had dropped several pounds since my last visit.  I said oh yes, I've been working on it.  

[BlueSkies]

One of my favorite places to get food and eat is an old fashioned donut and sandwich shop.  It's a little out of the way for me though.  I kind of always feel a little bad about going to Dunkin' Donuts after going to this more mom and pop/family run kind of place.  The donuts and food is better there as well.

 

 

But I do like Dunkin' Donuts coffee though.

 

I usually leave a good tip when I go to the local donut place.   

[Jaded]

4 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Trying not to be snarky either, but one of my idols, Gloria Steinem was always a fashion statement.  I feel that feminism includes celebrating the power of the female body and spirit in every way and if I don't feel that someone on a reality show is doing that to their best advantage I think I'm entitled to expressing an opinion on it.  I'm not policing them or their bodies.  I want women to succeed, this is not "mean girls" with me. 

https://www.vogue.co.uk/fashion/article/gloria-steinem-style

I really love one outfit out of all of those pictures more than the others. It's the one where she's wearing the black top and black/silver sparkly like bell bottoms. 

[Mondrianyone]

I got on the Lexington Avenue bus one day and sat down across from a woman who looked very familiar. "Oh, gosh, that's Gloria Steinem," I thought. I was a college kid, and I was starstruck. But it couldn't be Gloria Steinem, because this woman had very long nails, painted pale pink, that she was filing as we rolled along. Would Gloria have nails like that? (This was well before women's nails got crazy long.) The more I stared at her, which I'm sure she appreciated, the clearer it became that that was Gloria. Which I guess proves nothing other than don't stereotype.

[shapeshifter]

10 minutes ago, Jaded said:

I really love one outfit out of all of those pictures more than the others. It's the one where she's wearing the black top and black/silver sparkly like bell bottoms. 

Gloria Steinem was 82 in 2017 when that picture was taken!
She reminds me of my Mom at that age — still stylish.

Women who have made changes for civil rights for women are often accused of being not real women — even going back to the Salem (and elsewhere) Witch Trials, which were really about wresting the property of widows from them.  
I see Gloria Steinem in this and the other pictures in the Vogue article as being aware that, as a well known representative of Women's Rights, she doesn't want her wardrobe to be able to be used as fodder for those who would claim she's not a real woman. 

I didn't find any comments she made about her wardrobe having to be unassailable in this manner. 

I did find in Wikipedia about the (mythological?) Cassandra that

Quote

Cassandra was described by the chronicler Malalas in his account of the Chronography as "shortish, round-faced, white, mannish figure, good nose, good eyes, dark pupils, blondish, curly, good neck, bulky breasts, small feet, calm, noble, priestly, an accurate prophet foreseeing everything, practicing hard, virgin".[10] 

 

[supposebly]

17 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Women who have made changes for civil rights for women are often accused of being not real women

Women are still accused being not real one way or another. Having short hair, wearing this or that, no makeup, having no children, staying single.....being a lesbian probably gets you also told you're not "real", never even mind transwomen.

Any time someone accuses people of being not a real something or other, I always wonder WTF that is supposed to mean. Unless there is something like a passport documenting membership of "real group", it's an entirely pointless accusation.

And if we are still debating how wearing pants is not womanly, then we are really still debating on the level of about 100 years ago.

[shapeshifter]

22 minutes ago, supposebly said:

And if we are still debating how wearing pants is not womanly, then we are really still debating on the level of about 100 years ago.

I did notice that in the earlier pictures of Steinem in the Vogue article, like in the 60s and 70s when girls were still not permitted to wear pants to school, she is wearing skirts, which I suspect she did in part to avoid criticism of her attire which could distract from real issues, and perhaps also to prevent any comments about her not having womanly legs, or maybe just to demonstrate showing off one's legs is not an invitation to anything.
By 2017, pants were accepted on red carpets.

But yes, Mary Tyler Moore wore slacks on the Dick Van Dyke Show as early as 1961.

Edited February 10 by shapeshifter

[peacheslatour]

4 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I did notice that in the earlier pictures of Steinem in the Vogue article, like in the 60s and 70s when girls were still not permitted to wear pants to school, she is wearing skirts, which I suspect she did in part to avoid criticism of her attire which could distract from real issues, and perhaps also to prevent any comments about her not having womanly legs, or maybe just to demonstrate showing off one's legs is not an invitation to anything.
By 2017, pants were accepted on red carpets.

But yes, Mary Tyler Moore wore slacks on the Dick Van Dyke Show as early as 1961.

A bunch of my friends and I held a sit-in in the principal's office in sixth grade to be able to wear pants to school. We didn't win but the next year they could. The Jr. High already was allowing it.

[Yeah No]

18 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

A bunch of my friends and I held a sit-in in the principal's office in sixth grade to be able to wear pants to school. We didn't win but the next year they could. The Jr. High already was allowing it.

When I started Jr. High school in the Fall of 1970 a bunch of us girls got together to protest the dress code requiring us to wear skirts.  When the administration ignored us we met and decided to come to school en masse in pants.  We were cheered by the rest of the school and from then on girls wore pants to school and no one said a word to us.  My mother was so proud of me that she took me out and bought me more pants, LOL.

[Annber03]

My mom talked about how girls had to wear skirts when she was in school, too. Which, considering she lived in freaking Iowa, was...not the most logical idea in the wintertime. 

But yeah, I think she said that started to change when she entered junior high as well. Utterly bizarre that people got that bent out of shape at the thought of a woman wearing pants. 

[isalicat]

7 hours ago, ABay said:

Trying so hard not be snarky. The policing of women's bodies, e.g. clothes, by other women makes me feel like feminism never happened (to quote one of the threads on the site)

I think there is a difference between criticizing (even obliquely) another woman's body and criticizing their choice of clothes, particularly when said choice of clothes is so often nowadays completely inappropriate for the venue/occasion. When I see people (of either gender) attending Sunday Mass in shorts and flip flops I definitely feel a tad outraged: Sure, its great they made the effort to come but really...show some respect for where you are. And I will always think that leggings of every color (unless accompanied by a tunic/long shirt that covers the butt and a bit beyond) are great for the gym or yoga studio and totally inappropriate everywhere else. No matter how splendid your body we don't need to see quite that much of it, IMO.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, isalicat said:

I think there is a difference between criticizing (even obliquely) another woman's body and criticizing their choice of clothes, particularly when said choice of clothes is so often nowadays completely inappropriate for the venue/occasion. …I will always think that leggings of every color (unless accompanied by a tunic/long shirt that covers the butt and a bit beyond) are great for the gym or yoga studio and totally inappropriate everywhere else. No matter how splendid your body we don't need to see quite that much of it, IMO.

I totally agree with the portion I quoted.
And yet, am I just being an old fogey conditioned, perhaps, by men yelling things at me on the street about my body? 
IDK.
But I do love open water swimming, so I do accept seeing bodies at the beach. 
However, being older, I cannot imagine ever wearing a swimsuit that does not completely cover my butt cheeks. 
Still, why am I bothered by a woman walking ahead of me on the pier at the beach in wintry weather wearing just tights (aka "leggings") on her lower half? 
And 2 of my daughters performed in ballets in tights.
I think I've become the high school teachers who objected to us wearing culottes. 
This is why we don't live forever. It just wouldn't work.

Edited February 11 by shapeshifter

[PRgal]

Pants weren't part of my (girls only) high school's uniform until Fall 1997 when it was added in.  We were, of course, allowed to wear pants on non-uniform days.  And our gym uniform wasn't a skirt with bloomers attached (hadn't been since at least the 70s).   They still can't wear larger earrings (as far as I know), more than one ring in each hand, nor can they wear non-religious symbols around their necks.  No non-religious headwear, either.

[annzeepark914]

CNN is now showing all four parts of the Martha Stewart special (in case anyone missed any of the segments). 

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, PRgal said:

Pants weren't part of my (girls only) high school's uniform until Fall 1997 when it was added in.  We were, of course, allowed to wear pants on non-uniform days.  And our gym uniform wasn't a skirt with bloomers attached (hadn't been since at least the 70s).   They still can't wear larger earrings (as far as I know), more than one ring in each hand, nor can they wear non-religious symbols around their necks.  No non-religious headwear, either.

I was the librarian in a Catholic girls college prep high school from 1997-2001. They still had to wear their uniforms Monday through Thursday, which included a plaid skirt, no shorter than fingertip length. Fridays they could wear jeans. It was Sacramento CA, so it was rarely cold.

[Yeah No]

5 hours ago, Annber03 said:

My mom talked about how girls had to wear skirts when she was in school, too. Which, considering she lived in freaking Iowa, was...not the most logical idea in the wintertime. 

But yeah, I think she said that started to change when she entered junior high as well. Utterly bizarre that people got that bent out of shape at the thought of a woman wearing pants. 

Back in the stone ages (1060s) in NYC in my school we had special permission to wear pants on snowy days and in the bitter cold although I don't remember how we knew which days were OK to wear them and which weren't.  I do remember there being far fewer snow days off from school in those days than in later decades.  And we had some really cold, snowy weather back then too.

[Annber03]

18 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I do remember there being far fewer snow days off from school in those days than in later decades.  And we had some really cold, snowy weather back then too.

My mom's said the same thing. There was one time she told me about a snowstorm coming through when she was in high school, and she and my dad were starting out for school...

...and then their car got stuck in the snow and they had to come back home. And they still hadn't cancelled school despite that. Her mom was like, "I'm just calling them and telling them you're not coming in today, no way you're going back out in that." 

She also remembered a time when a school bus stalled out during a nasty snowstorm, and the kids had to walk back home in the blizzard. The schools finally decided to close down for the day after that. 

And she's ranted before about how this friend of hers lived a few blocks down the road from her, and their homes were separated by the railroad tracks. Her friend technically lived in the country, so if there was a snowstorm, her friend didn't have to come into school, whereas my mom did, because she still lived in the "city limits". Even though, again, they lived on the same street and were just a few blocks apart. 

[Yeah No]

57 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

My mom's said the same thing. There was one time she told me about a snowstorm coming through when she was in high school, and she and my dad were starting out for school...

...and then their car got stuck in the snow and they had to come back home. And they still hadn't cancelled school despite that. Her mom was like, "I'm just calling them and telling them you're not coming in today, no way you're going back out in that." 

She also remembered a time when a school bus stalled out during a nasty snowstorm, and the kids had to walk back home in the blizzard. The schools finally decided to close down for the day after that. 

And she's ranted before about how this friend of hers lived a few blocks down the road from her, and their homes were separated by the railroad tracks. Her friend technically lived in the country, so if there was a snowstorm, her friend didn't have to come into school, whereas my mom did, because she still lived in the "city limits". Even though, again, they lived on the same street and were just a few blocks apart. 

My husband and I talk about this sometimes because we are both close in age and from NYC.  These days NYC barely gets any snow anymore while when we were kids we would regularly get Winters where the snow would pile up and we wore snowsuits, those big rubber boots and mittens all Winter long.  I remember my friends and I made snow forts and even snow houses in my girlfriend's back yard (she lived in a kind of brownstone with a "stoop").  They lasted for weeks.  I hate it when people think older people are exaggerating about their experiences when they were actually true.  I really DID walk to school uphill in the snow - just not both ways, LOL.

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, Yeah No said:

when we were kids we would regularly get Winters where the snow would pile up and we wore snowsuits, those big rubber boots and mittens all Winter long

When I was in kindergarten and maybe 1st grade (1958-1960) we did have snow pants that we took off and hung up with our jackets — that is, some of us did. I don’t know if boys did? And while I eventually noticed (maybe 5th grade?) that some girls only had thin cotton dresses year round in the northern Chicago suburbs (my sister and I had wool jumpers and skirts for winter) I didn’t notice if some girls didn’t have snow pants when I was younger in Connecticut.
🚺🥶😔

Edited February 11 by shapeshifter

[Yeah No]

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

When I was in kindergarten and maybe 1st grade (1958-1960) we did have snow pants that we took off and hung up with our jackets — that is, some of us did. I don’t know if boys did? And while I eventually noticed (maybe 5th grade?) that some girls only had thin cotton dresses year round in the northern Chicago suburbs (my sister and I had wool jumpers and skirts for winter) I didn’t notice if some girls didn’t have snow pants when I was younger in Connecticut.
🚺🥶

I remember those snow pants, I wore and hated them.  They were often part of a snowsuit and I remember boys wearing those.  When girls didn't wear them they wore skirts with thick tights and rubber boots.  I always laugh when I see that boy on "Christmas Story" wearing a snowsuit.  I remember seeing kids that looked almost like that, LOL.

[annzeepark914]

When I was in high school, girls couldn't wear slacks. We wore panty hose, wool skirts & sweaters, and heavy coats. Lots of fun 🙄 trudging through the snow, slush, ice, to & from school. But I'm glad I went to school back in the dark ages and not today, with all the social media tormenting kids. 

[shapeshifter]

59 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

But I'm glad I went to school back in the dark ages and not today, with all the social media tormenting kids. 

But back in the day, kids would ostracize one another. 

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

But back in the day, kids would ostracize one another. 

Kids will always find a way to be cruel. Insecure little monsters.

[annzeepark914]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

But back in the day, kids would ostracize one another. 

True...there was also bullying. But it all wasn't as overpowering as it is today thanks to social media (that can follow you wherever you go). I was bullied for several months by a small group of girls (it had to do with boyfriends 🙄). For me, it was a good thing there was no Facebook or other SM back then.

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, annzeepark914 said:

True...there was also bullying. But it all wasn't as overpowering as it is today thanks to social media (that can follow you wherever you go). I was bullied for several months by a small group of girls (it had to do with boyfriends 🙄). For me, it was a good thing there was no Facebook or other SM back then.

When I think of some of the things we did at parties, the drinking, the drugging. the skimpy outfits. Oh boy, am I glad nobody was walking around with cameras and the internet didn't exist.

[PRgal]

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

But back in the day, kids would ostracize one another. 

And there was the bathroom stall graffiti.  

[annzeepark914]

41 minutes ago, PRgal said:

And there was the bathroom stall graffiti.  

Really? Was/is this a girl thing or did boys also resort to cruel taunting (via bathroom stalls...sheesh)?

[Bastet]

I typically go to my parents' house for the Super Bowl, and we make a ridiculous amount of food for three people, but they were supposed to be out of town this year.  They rescheduled their trip, but by then I had a cold, so we decided even if I was feeling mostly normal and no longer contagious by today (both true), we'd still just watch separately. 

I guess not having to get up and prepare food registered deeply with my body; when I woke up at 11:00 and thought, "Okay, time to get up and get Riley's medicine" I barely finished the thought before I fell back asleep.  This despite the fact I'd gone to sleep a little after midnight and only been awake once, for a short time, overnight.  The next thing I knew, it was 12:30.  Even for someone who loathes mornings as much as I do, that was some serious sleeping in.  Delayed catching up on the sleep I lost the first few nights of my cold?  Knowing I don't have a single thing I have to accomplish today?  I don't know, but, wow, that felt good. 

(And the cat is fine; her medication is given on a 12-hour schedule, but being off by up to a couple of hours doesn't cause a problem [otherwise, I would obviously set an alarm -- and actually get up].  She loved the extra time velcroed to me in bed and merely stuck her head out from under the covers to take her medicine, the position she remains in, snoozing away another hour later.)

I made a dill dip last night, so my Super Bowl Feast for One will be cutting up some vegetables and munching on that in the first half, and then making spinach, artichoke, and cheese dip at halftime.  Terribly unexciting, but also very little work, so I'm good with it this year.  (I am starting to feel a tinge of regret I didn't buy any chicken wings when I finally made it to the market Friday, though, as the baked parmesan and herb wings that are a constant in our otherwise revolving menu of SB snacks are probably going to be keenly missed by my taste buds when the game starts.)

Edited February 11 by Bastet

[PRgal]

3 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

Really? Was/is this a girl thing or did boys also resort to cruel taunting (via bathroom stalls...sheesh)?

Are there any guys here who could tell us?  I have a feeling it's mostly women here.  And yeah, at my all girls' school, some mean things were indeed written.  

[peacheslatour]

4 hours ago, PRgal said:

Are there any guys here who could tell us?  I have a feeling it's mostly women here.  And yeah, at my all girls' school, some mean things were indeed written.  

Guys writing lewd crap in bathroom stalls is so common it's a trope.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

Guys writing lewd crap in bathroom stalls is so common it's a trope.

I am often glad that my memory does not hold everything. 😉

[Yeah No]

20 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

True...there was also bullying. But it all wasn't as overpowering as it is today thanks to social media (that can follow you wherever you go). I was bullied for several months by a small group of girls (it had to do with boyfriends 🙄). For me, it was a good thing there was no Facebook or other SM back then.

I was bullied and ostracized as a kid and despite there being no internet there was no getting away from it either.  I was an only child, smart, my mother worked and I was a different religion from the vast majority of the kids in my neighborhood so that made me a prime target.  I was also bullied and ostracized in day camp so bad one year (1969) that I exploded in tears one day and attempted to run away.  When I describe it now I call it a "crucible".  When they found me and called my parents in I told them how the camp counselors saw what was going on and didn't intervene.  They went to the camp office and read the owners the riot act and got their money refunded. 

I was ashamed and hid this situation from my parents for a long time because I thought I was to blame for it or maybe it wouldn't have gone that far, but I was only 10 going on 11 years old and that's how kids react so I can't blame myself for keeping it inside.  Then after I couldn't take it anymore and ran away into the woods my parents finally intervened and took me out of the camp.  Though well meaning, they did not fully understand what I was going through no matter what I told them.  Where and when they grew up they didn't have such people or such issues.  I have to admit that this has scarred me for life and wounds that old and deep are very hard to heal even in therapy.  If anyone wants to know why I am the way I am this should tell you a lot.

BTW I did have one defender that protected me from the bullying at day camp, but she left the camp mid-season that last year.  Her name was Attallah Shabazz and is Malcolm X's daughter.  She was the only black girl in the camp and understood how I felt.  She was more mature than the other girls and they were afraid of her so they didn't mess with me so much until she left.  Then they came for me with a vengeance.

I often think that if there were an internet back when I was a kid it might have been worse but I  can't imagine how what I went through could have been any worse.  Thanks to my Mom I developed a thicker skin after that and was able to avoid and fend off any would-be bullies.  Also, I would often come to the defense of other kids that were being picked on by bullies.  I learned that if you showed your teeth they were usually cowards and would back down.

Despite that, I was bullied as an adult online by two women 23 years ago when I belonged to a mailing list where you could see everyone's personal email address.  They would write to me privately with insults.  It gave me PTSD from my bullying as a kid.  I soon cut them off completely and left that list (and founded my own chat board) but it still stung.

 

 

Edited February 12 by Yeah No

[TattleTeeny]

Whoops, wrong thread.

Edited February 12 by TattleTeeny

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Yeah No said:

They went to the camp office and read the owners the riot act and got their money refunded. 

In 1969, many parents would not have "made a scene." Bravo for your parents. Even if their actions could not heal your scars, they likely helped prevent similar incidents from happening in the future to other kids, since it affected the camp's bottom line.

 

2 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I did have one defender that protected me from the bullying at day camp, but she left the camp mid-season that last year.  Her name was Attallah Shabazz and is Malcolm X's daughter.  She was the only black girl in the camp and understood how I felt.  She was more mature than the other girls and they were afraid of her so they didn't mess with me so much until she left.  Then they came for me with a vengeance.

Wow. There are so many layers to this brief footnote of your history and and the history of Attallah Shabazz, Malcolm X's daughter.

Edited February 12 by shapeshifter

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

In 1969, many parents would not have "made a scene." Bravo for your parents. Even if their actions could not heal your scars, they likely helped prevent similar incidents from happening in the future to other kids, since it affected the camp's bottom line.

I hope you're right, but the camp closed only a few years later and became a condo. complex.  It was in Scarsdale and real estate prices were going up so much they probably made a killing on it.  

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Wow. There are so many layers to this brief footnote of your history and and the history of Attallah Shabazz, Malcolm X's daughter.

I know, right?  I have often thought about contacting her and thanking her for what she did for me, but I am too shy to do it.  I wonder if she would remember me.

Interestingly there was one other person at the camp, a boy, who became my friend and confidant who knew what was happening to me.  Without his support I don't know what I would have done.  We used to meet by the trampolines during a free period in the afternoons.  It was completely platonic as we were pre-pubescent at the time.  I never saw him after I left the camp.  Anyway, many years later when everyone was getting on social media, I googled him hoping to find a Facebook page and to my great shock I found out that he had committed suicide just 10 days beforehand.  I saw an article in the NYT about his death.  It seems that he was a day trader on Wall St. who was asked by the feds to wear a wire to trap some of his colleagues engaging in insider trading.  They insinuated that they "had enough on him" to put him away so he had to comply.  Now he was the sweetest, most honest guy you'd ever want to meet and this tore him up so badly that their intimidation eventually lead to his suicide.  I was very sad that I had gotten there just a little too late.....

ETA:  Several articles about him later said that the feds. didn't have any case against him, they just said that they did to intimidate him.

Edited February 12 by Yeah No

[ECM1231]

I'm always a day late and a dollar short with posting, even though I read here daily. I'm 2 weeks post Covid, and while I had a fairly mild case, some symptoms persist like blowing my nose a zillion times daily and a constant headache. Still, I'm thankful that it wasn't any worse.

Re weighing oneself at the doctor's office. Ugh! I hate the yearly weigh-ins. In my case it's twice-yearly b/c my PCP insists I come in twice a year. Even in the dead of winter I wear the lightest jeans I can find, and short sleeve top. I wear no jewelry, except my hoop earrings. I wear the thinnest of socks and take off my shoes. Every ounce counts. My husband, otoh, will wear his heavy sneakers, keeps his wallet in his pants, along with his cell phone on the belt loop, and the heaviest set of keys you can imagine. He doesn't empty his pockets, and the past year or two the bugger has actually lost weight. GRRRRR!

I feel for everyone who's commented about being bullied in their youth. I was bullied in the 2nd grade by a female classmate, and I think because of it, it's made me a more empathetic person. My mom, also, instilled empathy by always telling my sister and me that we should try to walk in another person's shoes. 

In my case, our classroom was set up in rows where 2 individual desks were placed together. My bully sat adjacent to me and one of the things she would do is pinch my thighs. I remember this clearly. I was no shrinking violet, although I was a bit on the shy side, and I would complain to my teacher that I was being pinched. For whatever reason, I cannot remember the teacher taking any action. After a while you'd think she'd switch our seats. 

But it was what the bully did on the playground that really stung. She'd gather her friends together and basically exclude me from recess fun. Back in those days jump roping was an activity we all enjoyed at recess. There would be 2 girls on either end of the jump rope and we'd all line up and take turns jumping in. However, whenever I would jump in, Virginia, the bully, would instruct the rope turners to stop the rope. I'd come home in tears most days.

So, my mom was fed up and she and my aunt did something that would not be done today. They took the matter in their own hands and showed up at recess with their own jump rope. They were the rope turners and Virginia had the nerve to try to jump in and my mom and aunt did the same thing to her. They wouldn't let her 'play' or have her turn. 

My bully was a bit better after that and by 3rd grade she'd moved on to bully another classmate. This classmate, Suzanne, became my best friend from 3rd grade through about 8th grade. I befriended her specifically because I knew how horrible it felt to be bullied. 

I suppose in the scheme of things the bullying was mild, but nevertheless, it stung to be friendless that year. It remains with me, still. And of course, Virginia went on to be very popular in high school, have leadership positions. She even became a teacher.  

 

 

Edited February 12 by ECM1231

[shapeshifter]

4 minutes ago, ECM1231 said:

…I feel for everyone who's commented about being bullied in their youth. I was bullied in the 2nd grade by a female classmate, and I think because of it, it's made me a more empathetic person. My mom, also, instilled empathy by always telling my sister and me that we should try to walk in another person's shoes. 

In my case, our classroom was set up in rows where 2 individual desks were placed together. My bully sat adjacent to me and one of the things she would do is pinch my thighs. I remember this clearly. I was no shrinking violet, although I was a bit on the shy side, and I would complain to my teacher that I was being pinched. For whatever reason, I cannot remember the teacher taking any action. After a while you'd think she'd switch our seats. 

But it was what the bully did on the playground that really stung. She'd gather her friends together and basically exclude me from recess fun. Back in those days jump roping was an activity we all enjoyed at recess. There would be 2 girls on either end of the jump rope and we'd all line up and take turns jumping in. However, whenever I would jump in, Virginia, the bully, would instruct the rope turners to stop the rope. I'd come home in tears most days.

So, my mom was fed up and she and my aunt did something that would not be done today. They took the matter in their own hands and showed up at recess with their own jump rope. They were the rope turners and Virginia had the nerve to try to jump in and my mom and aunt did the same thing to her. They wouldn't let her 'play' or have her turn. 

My bully was a bit better after that and my 3rd grade she'd moved on to bully another classmate. This classmate, Suzanne, became my best friend from 3rd grade through about 8th grade. I befriended her specifically because I knew how horrible it felt to be bullied. 

I suppose in the scheme of things the bullying was mild, but nevertheless, it stung to be friendless that year. It remains with me, still. And of course, Virginia went on to be very popular in high school, have leadership positions. She even became a teacher.  

Horrible teacher but Super Heroine Mom & Aunt for the win!👏

Too bad group jumping-rope didn't catch on with adults the way running, pilates, and pickleball did. 
— not that I could do it now, but at least through my 50s it would have been fun
— maybe with music.

[JTMacc99]

15 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Guys writing lewd crap in bathroom stalls is so common it's a trope.

I don't remember a SINGLE instance of somebody writing something mean about another guy in a bathroom stall, ever. 

It's mostly these things:

1. Important wisdom to pass along about pooping/farting.
2. Dick drawings in each person's signature style.
3. [Band name], frequently in that band's preferred way of writing their name.
   1. In different handwriting - SUCKS
   2. In either the first person's handwriting or a third person's handwriting YOU SUCK [possible insult tacked on.
4. Drawings such as this:

That's pretty much it. 

[PRgal]

Girls might gossip.  Though once I've seen something along the lines of this in the bathroom:

 

"What do you get when you put F and UCK?  Firetruck!!!"

 

This wasn't a middle school or high school bathroom - this was at a music school where I took piano lessons.  Very young children could be seeing that - like kids just learning how to read.  I'm not sure the age of the girl who wrote it - to me (I was 10 or so at the time), it seemed weird that a girl would do that.  We're more like so-and-so is fat or something to that extent.

[peacheslatour]

From what I've heard, it was more along the line of "For a good time call..." or stuff like this.

 

[annzeepark914]

27 minutes ago, JTMacc99 said:

I don't remember a SINGLE instance of somebody writing something mean about another guy in a bathroom stall, ever. 

It's mostly these things:

1. Important wisdom to pass along about pooping/farting.
2. Dick drawings in each person's signature style.
3. [Band name], frequently in that band's preferred way of writing their name.
   1. In different handwriting - SUCKS
   2. In either the first person's handwriting or a third person's handwriting YOU SUCK [possible insult tacked on.
4. Drawings such as this:

That's pretty much it. 

Males are so different from females. I've wondered, over the years if it's because females are the (physically) weaker sex. We always need to be on guard/alert. There are many things boys/men can do that girls/women can't (e.g., walking down certain streets, sitting alone in certain places w/o fear of being harassed, hiking alone, etc). So does this bring out the meanness in *some* girls?? I keep trying to understand this nastiness towards each other that doesn't seem to be as prevalent among boys.  Some boys in grade school & high school do get bullied. Just thinking about it all 🤔. 

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

"For a good time call..."

867-5309