S04:E07: Second Time's the Charm?

[Whimsy]

Quote

Family meetings stir up anxiety and excitement. Two couples negotiate their potential living situations, and a date leads to a life-changing question

Original airdate 3/31/23

[ally8620000]

Awwww I'm surprisingly into Bliss and Zach. They're really sweet together. Love her not just rolling over and taking him back but also just being open to things. I know Zach has gotten a bad rap from the other girls but I think he seems sweet and seeing him with Bliss warms my heart. I loved when she didn't have an issue with his eye contact. I think he was already self conscious and Irina made that worse. I was nervous about him wanting to talk to her, I was afraid it was going to be clear she's his second choice (*ahem Kwame*) But I think he genuinely knows he made mistake. He was played by Irina and like others have said, I think he saw a bit of his mom in her and wanted to protect her but he and Bliss seem like a good match.

[LakeGal]

Paul is marrying his mother  Micah and her were the same person at different ages.  I don't think Micah and Paul will get married.  I expect her to say no at the wedding.  

I forget which ep we met Chelsea's dad.  But he seemed happy for her and Kwame.  

It was obvious that Zack was going to propose on the boat.  I am happy for them.

Tiffany and Brett are getting along well.

I do not like Jackie.  Marshall is way too good for her.  She is treating him like everything is about her.  We have not even met her family but she keeps going on about them.  She is overly emotional.  

 

[ichbin]

What kind of super pheromone was Irina emitting that Zach chose her over Bliss while in the pods.  If Irina ever showed herself as being charming or appealing in any way it must have been left on the editing room floor. 

 

Micah, like, is totally annoying, like, because she cannot stop saying like, and ,like, between that and her, like, voice she is really hard to ,like, listen to.

 

18 minutes ago, LakeGal said:

Paul is marrying his mother  Micah and her were the same person at different ages. 

OMG, yes!  As soon as I saw the mother that is exactly what I was thinking.  They honestly don't seem like a much of a match though and I'm hoping for him to ditch her at the alter.

Jackie and Marshall also don't seem like a good match.  

 

[sainte-chapelle]

7 hours ago, ally8620000 said:

Awwww I'm surprisingly into Bliss and Zach. They're really sweet together. Love her not just rolling over and taking him back but also just being open to things. I know Zach has gotten a bad rap from the other girls but I think he seems sweet and seeing him with Bliss warms my heart. I loved when she didn't have an issue with his eye contact. I think he was already self conscious and Irina made that worse. I was nervous about him wanting to talk to her, I was afraid it was going to be clear she's his second choice (*ahem Kwame*) But I think he genuinely knows he made mistake. He was played by Irina and like others have said, I think he saw a bit of his mom in her and wanted to protect her but he and Bliss seem like a good match.

Yea I think they were trying to set Zach up like some stereotypical Criminal Minds episode. He is a bit odd and I can see how he would irritate people. It shocked me when I found out he is a defence attorney. I think it is pretty obvious than Irina was the problem. Zach is awkward but not a bad guy. I don’t see any of these people making it. I like Chelsea, she shouldn’t settle for Kwame.

Lol at filler faced Micah making fun of Paul and his style.  She wears mom jeans that make her look 60, a yellow puffer and a bathingsuit with a flower pattern similar to my grandmother’s curtains. Her veneers are so big she can barely close her mouth.

Edited April 1, 2023 by sainte-chapelle

[Starlight925]

Micah looks like a Pekingese dog.

[LuvMyShows]

8 hours ago, ichbin said:

They honestly don't seem like a much of a match though and I'm hoping for him to ditch her at the alter.

Agree about Micah and Paul.  Have we ever seen them be physical?  When she was at his apartment and he sat down on his couch, she went to sit on the other couch.  I found that super odd and cannot imagine doing that with someone I love, especially in the early stages when you're usually super-physical with each other.

[DearEvette]

My husband said Paul's mother looks like a character on White Lotus.  And then he said 'He's marrying his mother'. LOL

Zack and Bliss are cute.   I think he was making steak using a sous vide but either had the wrong bags or didn't close them properly.  A properly prepared sous vide steak is wonderful.

Honestly, I couldn't even pay attention to what Jackie was saying because Marshall's niece was so cute eating that pizza.  But she is starting to raise some red flags for me.  She seems like she's a lot.  He is soo supportive. 

The most I've liked Micah was her during the tour of Paul's apartment.  She seemed legit charming there.

I liked Tiffany and Brett's convo about money.  And her calling him Bougie Brett is fun.

Predictions:

Brett and Tiffany = still thinking they'll get married

Irina and Zach = hell no, not married DUNZO!

Micah and Paul = Still thinking they are a no, even though they feel stronger than before.

Jackie and Marshall = I am moving my not sure to a no. She seems waffle-y

Kwame and Chelsea = tentatively saying no.

* Bliss and Zach.  stay tuned....

[evansmom10]

9 hours ago, ichbin said:

What kind of super pheromone was Irina emitting that Zach chose her over Bliss while in the pods.  If Irina ever showed herself as being charming or appealing in any way it must have been left on the editing room floor. 

 

 

I think it's bc she said people compare her to Megan Fox in the pods. He thought he was gonna get his first trophy GF instead of the Granola girls he normally dates

[violet and green]

9 hours ago, evansmom10 said:

I think it's bc she said people compare her to Megan Fox in the pods. He thought he was gonna get his first trophy GF instead of the Granola girls he normally dates

I think that was Paul who usually dates the crunchy witches with potions. Don't recall Zack ever discussing who he dates.

What I did think was weird was how he spoke of Bliss in the pods as being someone so intelligent, they could never run out of things to say, and then their conversation on the boat was about which were their top three fruits!

Bliss is a relief, after Irina. But I find that intense vocal fry really grating. At least she's not mean.

[Starlight925]

All I kept thinking was....Zach....don't lose the ring overboard.  

I get why Bliss feels second best.  I'd have similar insecurities about this whole situation.

But, on The Bachelor, there have been 3 instances where the bachelors/ettes went back to their second choice, and are now married:   Jason & Molly (initially chose Melissa Rycroft, then broke up with her and cried to get Molly back).  And Arie and Lauren (initially chose Becca Kufrin, then went back and asked Lauren to marry him).  And Desiree initially wanted Brooks, who turned her down, so she went to her second choice, Chris.

All 3 of these couples are happily married now.

Bliss is such a lovely girl, all the way around.  Turns out, Zach is now seeing that she's as beautiful on the outside as on the inside.  She's handling this so much better than I would have, at that age.

I've been a Zach fan all this time, and I don't get the "serial killer vibes" thing.  He's had a very rough life, yet he's stood up and made a nice life for himself.  I also think he's cute.  

Edited April 1, 2023 by Starlight925

[marny]

1 hour ago, Starlight925 said:

I get why Bliss feels second best.  I'd have similar insecurities about this whole situation.

But, on The Bachelor, there have been 3 instances where the bachelors/ettes went back to their second choice, and are now married:   Jason & Molly (initially chose Melissa Rycroft, then broke up with her and cried to get Molly back).  And Arie and Lauren (initially chose Becca Kufrin, then went back and asked Lauren to marry him).  And Desiree initially wanted Brooks, who turned her down, so she went to her second choice, Chris.

 

I also get why Bliss feels insecure, but that’s probably an issue they should have discussed BEFORE she accepted his proposal. Like, girl, if you still think he needs to convince you that he made a mistake, you can say “not yet, I need time.”  Unless you just wanted to be on the series and get more screen time and the show required the engagement for that. Although the show seems to have no issue letting castoffs come to the parties and stuff. 

[DearEvette]

I am really conflicted on the whole Bliss and Zack thing.

On the one hand I actually like them together.

But.. I can understand why she feels second best and is questioning his judgement.

But.. we never saw what he saw of Irina in the pods.  The show clearly only showed their interactions that drummed up drama for the triangle.

And.. we saw the parts of Bliss shit talking Irina to him which is never a good look.

But..if Bliss was over it she could have clearly declined all contact.

But...it is literally only about , what, 6 weeks from the time the pods open to the day of the weddings.  So if you  really did fall in love with someone in the pods it is understandable that it is hard to turn that off after just two weeks of not seeing them. And you might want to still pursue it to see where it goes.

And.. I wonder in this case, it is less a case of Bliss being second best  vs. Zach realizing he made a mistake and chose the wrong person. It isn't like Irina rejected his proposal and, bummed he went to settle for Bliss.  This is why I find Kwame more problematic in that sense that Zach. The way Kwame was acting with Micah at the pool (and who did reject him in the pods and he was really broken by it) doesn't pass the smell test for me.

Also.. we saw how manipulative and calculated Irina (and Micah) went about the process so I cut him some slack.

Finally.. I just think he is getting a bad rap.   Irina is an unreliable narrator.  She seems to just want to foment chaos and doesn't care who she damages in the process.

so..this is all to say.. I am rooting for them but don't think they should get married in however many days were left at this point.

[Irlandesa]

One thing I do love is where they're living this season.  Atlanta's were depressing.  Chicago had nice windows but they were a box.  Texas looked like hotel rooms.  But these actually look like real apartments.  I love the balconies. 

Zach definitely seems more comfortable with Bliss.  His Harry Potter music seems so weirdly specific and odd that it's probably the most authentic thing we've seen.

I died when I saw Paul's mom.  OMG. And sight unseen. 

[P2C2E]

I'm cracking up at Brett trying to say he doesn't really spend money on things when he has a whole ass wall of sneakers.

[DearEvette]

They were all Nike yes? (if not then Yikes!) He said in the pods he is head of a division at Nike. So I am guessing he 1) makes bank! and 2) he gets the sneakers free or at a very deep discount.

[William2021]

1 hour ago, P2C2E said:

I'm cracking up at Brett trying to say he doesn't really spend money on things when he has a whole ass wall of sneakers.

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

They were all Nike yes? (if not then Yikes!) He said in the pods he is head of a division at Nike. So I am guessing he 1) makes bank! and 2) he gets the sneakers free or at a very deep discount.

Maybe it's been acquired over many years. Either way if he makes his money he can spend it as he wants, he shouldn't feel the need to even make an excuse.

[William2021]

7 hours ago, DearEvette said:

I am really conflicted on the whole Bliss and Zack thing.

On the one hand I actually like them together.

But.. I can understand why she feels second best and is questioning his judgement.

But.. we never saw what he saw of Irina in the pods.  The show clearly only showed their interactions that drummed up drama for the triangle.

And.. we saw the parts of Bliss shit talking Irina to him which is never a good look.

But..if Bliss was over it she could have clearly declined all contact.

But...it is literally only about , what, 6 weeks from the time the pods open to the day of the weddings.  So if you  really did fall in love with someone in the pods it is understandable that it is hard to turn that off after just two weeks of not seeing them. And you might want to still pursue it to see where it goes.

And.. I wonder in this case, it is less a case of Bliss being second best  vs. Zach realizing he made a mistake and chose the wrong person. It isn't like Irina rejected his proposal and, bummed he went to settle for Bliss.  This is why I find Kwame more problematic in that sense that Zach. The way Kwame was acting with Micah at the pool (and who did reject him in the pods and he was really broken by it) doesn't pass the smell test for me.

Also.. we saw how manipulative and calculated Irina (and Micah) went about the process so I cut him some slack.

Finally.. I just think he is getting a bad rap.   Irina is an unreliable narrator.  She seems to just want to foment chaos and doesn't care who she damages in the process.

so..this is all to say.. I am rooting for them but don't think they should get married in however many days were left at this point.

I don't know what word to use for Bliss and Zach, but for many of us it almost teaches us a lesson.

I like that others put Irina in the 'mean girls' category, because that makes it easier to understand. Irina got Zach to ditch Bliss, just like how Micah did the same with that poor other girl. I remember that one time where she pointed out their age differences, it went along like "I'm a cute 25 year old and Bliss is a 30+ woman that maybe you relate to more". Its hard to say into words, but I could tell she said it in a way that manipulatively tap into the fact that us men naturally prefer younger women and it definitely worked.

Also with Bliss shit talking Irina: I mean the problem is nobody shit talks Irina probably most of her life which is why she gets away with it. I remember Bliss baking something for Zacks birthday, Irina saw it and got first dibs on meeting Zach (with knowledge of all this) and then sometimes makes it seem okay that she did nothing for him. She may have not mentioned Blisses efforts, but she definitely diminished her efforts.

If I was Zach I would just call it as a big mistake, that Irina fooled him into being exclusive with her, and that it was made before they even met. I wouldn't even entertain the "2nd best" notion.

Edited April 2, 2023 by William2021

[Ms Blue Jay]

22 hours ago, evansmom10 said:

I think it's bc she said people compare her to Megan Fox in the pods. He thought he was gonna get his first trophy GF instead of the Granola girls he normally dates

Paul dates Granola girls.  Not Zack.

[LuvMyShows]

On 3/31/2023 at 2:35 PM, ichbin said:

They honestly don't seem like a much of a match though and I'm hoping for him to ditch her at the alter.

Agree about Micah and Paul.  Have we ever even seen them be physical?  When she was at his apartment and he sat down on his couch, she went to sit on the other couch.  I found that super odd and cannot imagine doing that with someone I love, especially in the early stages when you're usually super-physical with each other.

12 hours ago, Starlight925 said:

I've been a Zach fan all this time, and I don't get the "serial killer vibes" thing.  He's had a very rough life, yet he's stood up and made a nice life for himself.  I also think he's cute.  

The too-intense eye gazing is the main part of the serial killer vibe.  His unkempt, too-long hair is another.  And his too-big-for-his-mouth teeth are also a part.  Initially I thought he was cute, but now there are times I can't even stand to look at him.

[LuvMyShows]

I don't see how Jackie can even consider getting with Josh when he was so wasted at what was just a casual get-together.  I actually don't have a problem with him speaking up about his feelings for her, but how odd that she said he never went deep in the pods, when that was supposedly the big plus for all these other relationships. And Marshall went down about 100 notches when we saw even just the small snippet of what he was saying, and how he said it, during their argument. I think Jackie is very, very torn between wanting the thug-type that she is sexually attracted to, and the nice-type who will treat her better but doesn't make her engines rev up.

[DearEvette]

13 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

The too-intense eye gazing is the main part of the serial killer vibe.  His unkempt, too-long hair is another.  And his too-big-for-his-mouth teeth are also a part.  Initially I thought he was cute, but now there are times I can't even stand to look at him.

I wonder if he is on the spectrum and had trouble with eye contact in the past and in his profession had been told he needed to work on that?  Or maybe he's just socially awkward.  He seems most natural and relaxed when he is talking to Paul, who is also a bit of pedant and nerd. 

Also, tbh, of the two I found Irina the more physically repulsive.

[Zima]

I am really surprised by all the Zack love here. To me, he and Bliss have 0 chemistry. The dinner at his house when he was trying to dance with her made me cringe so hard, I had to look away. And then the awkward kiss and proposal on the boat...I was screaming in discomfort. I know she'll say yes, because she wants to stay on the show, but I really don't see them lasting. Like, mega yikes. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

2 hours ago, Zima said:

I am really surprised by all the Zack love here. To me, he and Bliss have 0 chemistry. The dinner at his house when he was trying to dance with her made me cringe so hard, I had to look away. And then the awkward kiss and proposal on the boat...I was screaming in discomfort. I know she'll say yes, because she wants to stay on the show, but I really don't see them lasting. Like, mega yikes. 

Personally, I do not have "Zack love" I just can't stand the way some of those women talk about him.  It's nasty.

[larapu2000]

18 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Personally, I do not have "Zack love" I just can't stand the way some of those women talk about him.  It's nasty.

It makes me wonder if he was kind of weird in the dates the other women may have shared with him in the pods that weren't aired.  Like maybe they find him creepy because he asked creepy questions or gave creepy answers and that's why they didn't move forward in dating him.  I discount anything Irina or Micah say about him, but even Chelsea said he was creepy.  I think it's valid to consider that there may have been interactions that we as the audience were not privy to.

[AnnaBaptist]

Looks like they forgot to bring the gold glassware when Chelsea's father came to visit. Both white and red wine for all three of them.

[Snapdragon]

8 hours ago, AnnaBaptist said:

Looks like they forgot to bring the gold glassware when Chelsea's father came to visit. Both white and red wine for all three of them.

The goblets always crack me up.  Netflix should sell those as merch.  The Love Is Blind collection.  People would totally buy them to use at viewing parties.  

[Snapdragon]

13 hours ago, larapu2000 said:

It makes me wonder if he was kind of weird in the dates the other women may have shared with him in the pods that weren't aired.  Like maybe they find him creepy because he asked creepy questions or gave creepy answers and that's why they didn't move forward in dating him.  I discount anything Irina or Micah say about him, but even Chelsea said he was creepy.  I think it's valid to consider that there may have been interactions that we as the audience were not privy to.

I made a similar comment in an earlier episode thread.  The fact that all the women seem to dislike him, while the men are cool with him, makes me think he was saying some not great things in he pods.  And whatever it was he said, it had to be pretty bad because they all vehemently dislike him.  

[DearEvette]

I dunno.  I am gonna reserve judgment on the Zack thing.  I'll be very curious about what comes out at the Reunion episode.

Admittedly, I kinda binged all the eps in two days so didn't really absorb details, but when they were still in the pods and it looked like he was Bliss' guy they seemed very supportive of her, helping her with the cake and awwing over her making it. 

Irina didn;t find him attractive and was the first to call him creepy.  Micah was Irina's pal so I feel like she would agree with anything Irina said.  Jackie was rather catty and two faced in her own way and she has a type.  So that left Chelsea and Tiffany.  Tiffany said nothing.  CheIsea never used the 'creepy' term that seemed to float around so much but said she disliked him.   But Chelsea was Bliss' friend in the pod and was the one to comfort her when Zack threw her over for Irina and disliked Irina and Micah for laughing at her.  So Chelsea's dislike could be in solidarity over him throwing over Bliss.  Much of what was said about him was said pre-Bliss reunion during the very tense Mexico period. 

Also, I just remember how all the women couldn't stand Cole just because of stuff Zanab said but nothing they ever saw themselves, so yeah, I am reserving judgement until we can hear some more of the BTS stuff.

[HerkyJerky]

7 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Also, I just remember how all the women couldn't stand Cole just because of stuff Zanab said but nothing they ever saw themselves

Good point!

[1011101010001]

On 4/1/2023 at 9:29 PM, LuvMyShows said:

Initially I thought he was cute, but now there are times I can't even stand to look at him.

He’s like if Michael Keaton and Johnny Knoxville and Hugh Grant had a lovechild.

On 4/2/2023 at 11:22 AM, DearEvette said:

I wonder if he is on the spectrum and had trouble with eye contact in the past and in his profession had been told he needed to work on that? 

Some people think people break eye contact when they lie so maybe he is used to trying to maintain eye contact with his clients.  

On 4/2/2023 at 11:22 AM, DearEvette said:

Also, tbh, of the two I found Irina the more physically repulsive.

She is like a poor man’s Monica Lewinsky.

[Lindz]

A little surprised Kwame's apartment is messy. He has a soccer group & run trail. Big whoop. He can find another. Even though Chelsea knows she has to stay in Seattle, she could've made it seem like she was considering living in Portland. 🤣

[Lindz]

Oh look, Jackie's overwhelmed by her feelings AGAIN & doesn't want to meet the family. Like. How long does she want to be in a mood??? I just don't get it. Who wants to feel like that for so long??? WHERE'S THE RESOLUTION??? I'm a girl & I don't get it. Just isn't productive to me to sit in those feelings for more than a couple minutes. 🙄

Paul's apartment is a hodgepodge of upcycled furniture. Hmm. Where TF did Arizona come from? & he said no.