Speculation: Montauk Does Rashomon

[Meredith Quill]

Your Speculation Topic!

[taragel]

Who's excited for this one? Starts October 12 on Showtime

 

Showtime's description:

At once deeply observed and intriguingly elusive, THE AFFAIR explores the emotional effects of an extramarital relationship. Noah (Dominic West) is a New York City schoolteacher and novelist who is happily married [to MAURA TIERNEY], but resents his dependence on his wealthy father-in-law. Alison (Ruth Wilson) is a young waitress trying to piece her life and marriage [to JOSHUA JACKSON] back together in the wake of a tragedy. The provocative drama unfolds when Alison and Noah meet in Montauk at the end of Long Island.

 

The pilot script was...unpredictable and it could be a very intriguing show.

[gameoff]

 

Who's excited for this one? Starts October 12 on Showtime

 

Me!  I might have a not so slight crush on Josh Jackson that spurred my initial interest --but now after seeing all the teasers that have been released, the story and the way it will be told is drawing me in even more.

Edited September 17, 2014 by gameoff

[taragel]

Ha ha, me too. I was intrigued for the JJ, but it seems like they really have something promising here. Lots of TV critics have been tweeting about how "next level" good the show is, especially Ruth Wilson (who oddly looks a lot like a grown up Joey Potter in some of those posters. LOL.)

 

If Homeland's back on its game, this will be a nice one-two punch from Showtime on Sunday nights. 

[scrb]

I was meh on all the promos that Showtime has been running for months.

Wasn't aware of the Rashomon comparisons or the pedigree of the creators.

Setting the season pass.

[TarHeelTeacher]

I'm thinking (hoping) the restaurant owner is the one that's dead. Murder or  accident doesn't matter to me. I definitely want Maura Tierney and Joshua Jackson's characters to run off together.

Edited October 20, 2014 by TarHeelTeacher

[absnow54]

Haha, yes! She kept on going on and on about how much she loved that ranch. Go run away and ride horses and enjoy smiling since everyone else on the show seems to hate happiness.

[Constantinople]

Do we know if the death (or murder) resulted from the affair, or was just incidental?  Perhaps the police stumble across the affair as a result of investigating the death.  For example, the police have reason to belief the death is tied to the "fish" that Allison was sneaking around, they start investigating Allison and as a result, find out she's been having an affair with Noah.

[Boundary]

I think the police have some kind of rationale that the affair led to the incident of someone running down the victim. There's no reason for the focus otherwise. How did you meet? Tell about the first time you saw him? etc. This is a specific line of enquiry.

[Veronica]

I've seen speculation that the show is really just Noah's book - that there is no real murder/death, investigation, or affair.

[Irlandesa]

That has certainly crossed my mind. 

[LoveLeigh]

I think the clue is in Noah's quote about parallel universes. He speaks how a life can continue unchanged in a parallel universe after a major event. I think Noah died In Allison's universe and in a parallel universe Noah is still alive.

 

Or maybe Allison died and that is why there are two versions because in her parallel universe she is still alive. I think in each parallel universe the other one is dead and in their own universe they are alive: a real Schrodinger's cat.

 

Or maybe it is two different deaths... because in Noah's universe I think the cop referred to the dead person as a "he." 

 

Why else would they stick that parallel universe theory in there and keep repeating it in every episode summary? 

 

eta: Also, Noah says Montauk was a popular bootleg place during prohibition... so maybe Allison is smuggling drugs in the fish. Noah's comment could be another clue. 

Edited November 1, 2014 by DakotaLavender

[Boundary]

Actually, Noah's parallel universe speech made sense, if you are a man in a mid life crisis contemplating having your cake and eating it too.

[cardigirl]

Interesting theory about what is going on...

 

 

http://observer.com/2014/10/the-only-theory-you-need-to-read-about-the-affair-video/

[stillshimpy]

I just posted in the episode why that doesn't work.  In Allison's interrogation scenes the detective says he's been married for 25 years and still acts like a Newylwed.  In Noah's, he's divorced.  Unless they are trying to sell Allison as an (at least) 50-year-old woman in that interrogation stuff, it isn't that there have been 25+ years between the interrogation.  

 

Plus, Noah has a cell phone in his memories of the Affair, we see Allison step outside into the parking lot, with a recent phone and recent cars in the lot.  

 

So it's an interesting theory and maybe the "separate crimes" stuff is true, but the detective would still have to be deliberately lying, at the very least. 

 

It's an interesting theory, but it's demonstrably not as simple as a time difference explaining much of it away.  The length of the detective's marriage in Allison's vs. divorced in Noah's would actually suggest that Noah's is in the later timeline, if the detective isn't lying.  So, either it is a different reality, or the detective is lying.  Easiest answer is the detective is purposefully lying to at least one of them.   

Edited November 4, 2014 by stillshimpy

[cardigirl]

I agree, I don't think there's been 25 years between questioning, just that it's an interesting thought about it being about two different events at different times. 

 

I'm intrigued enough to keep watching.  But I'm also keeping an open mind.  I learned my lesson about too much theorizing from watching True Detective last winter. 

:)

[stillshimpy]

I agree, I don't think there's been 25 years between questioning, just that it's an interesting thought about it being about two different events at different times.

 

Fully agreed, and it's a fun theory.  Have to see how it plays out.  One thing is for sure, they've added at least one detail that can't be put down to different people having different perceptions with the detective bringing up his marital status in both and having it be so different from one to the other that he essentially has to be lying, or Noah's interrogation is later, which given the fact that his appearance is the same, doesn't seem likely.  

[Blakeston]

From Alison's conversation with the detective about the mysterious wedding, it sounds like both Alison and Oscar attended a wedding that one wouldn't expect them to be invited to.

 

This makes me suspect that Cole was the groom at the wedding. If Alison and Cole split up, and then Cole married another woman, that would explain why the detective would find it odd that Alison and Oscar were at the wedding. (What with Alison being Cole's ex, and Oscar having reason to hate Cole.)

[Pallas]

This makes me suspect that Cole was the groom at the wedding.

 

That sounds very plausible, given your reasoning: the detective's surprise that both Cole's ex-wife and his longtime feud partner were invited.   I'm convinced the victim was a Lockhart, probably Cole's brother.  No surprise that he would have attended, though maybe more of a mystery why he'd have been walking alone at night on the road leading to/fro the reception site.  Was he impaired -- drunk or drugged -- and deprived of his keys?  

 

Which reminds me of how Noah's off-hand reference to the victim as "that fella" could be seen as more evidence of Alison's point that to the summer people, the townies are negligible.  And could speak to why this investigation seems to be taking place some time well after the possible crime, originally dismissed as an accident.   

[Babalu]

I've only watched the first two episodes, so these two things may very well have been covered in later episodes/threads (including this very thread, which I won't read until I catch up).

First, the time line seems wonky to me. Wasn't the date of death on Alison's son's tombstone 2012? Yet I've got to the impression that the affair lasted for at least a couple of years and started so long ago that Noah and Alison have trouble remembering many of the details.

Also, it's occurred to me that it's not Noah and/or Allison who are the unreliable narrators, but the series itself - which may be based on Noah's second book, or his father-in-law's book.

[Blakeston]

First, the time line seems wonky to me. Wasn't the date of death on Alison's son's tombstone 2012? Yet I've got to the impression that the affair lasted for at least a couple of years and started so long ago that Noah and Alison have trouble remembering many of the details.

 

It appears that the flashbacks take place in 2014, and the scenes with the detective take place at some point in the future.

[Constantinople]

I'm starting to wonder if Alison drowned her kid.

[Boundary]

How come? 

[blixie]

Well she can't swim, so I guess I think the whole reason she's guilt ridden is the kid wandered into the surf and she couldn't go in to save him out of sheer terror. Interesting that a woman who lost her child because she can't swim, is now falling for a man who went to college all based on his talent for swimming.

[Constantinople]

How come?

I can't point to anything specific.

Perhaps I've just watched too much Law & Order recently.

Perhaps Charles Stuart and Susan Smith had an undue influence on me.

Perhaps it was the desire she expressed, twice, to her husband and her lover, to run away with her.

 

Well she can't swim, so I guess I think the whole reason she's guilt ridden is the kid wandered into the surf and she couldn't go in to save him out of sheer terror. Interesting that a woman who lost her child because she can't swim, is now falling for a man who went to college all based on his talent for swimming.

Who says Alison can't swim?

As far as I know, Alison is the only source of that information.

[Higgs]

Well she can't swim, so I guess I think the whole reason she's guilt ridden is the kid wandered into the surf and she couldn't go in to save him out of sheer terror. Interesting that a woman who lost her child because she can't swim, is now falling for a man who went to college all based on his talent for swimming.

There is little evidence that Alison's emotions are due to guilt as opposed to the normal horrendous suffering any parent undergoes upon the death of a child, and there is not a single shred of evidence that suggests Gabriel drowned because Alison couldn't swim. 

Edited November 26, 2014 by AmandaPanda
civility

[Pallas]

So far I've concluded that Gabriel was with Cole, in the water, when he died. The subtext of Alison's saying in the pilot, "Be careful," as Cole headed off to surf, and Cole's taking a breath before he replied. "Always am.."   And then this week, there was Cole's trying to force Alison to spell out, explicitly, what she wanted them to "put behind us."  That's not simply Gabriel's' death: to me, the hard intensity with which Cole ground down on her means that they were both not-speaking-about her blaming Cole for Gabriel's death.

 

That's what Alison was trying to coax Cole to see might be worth selling the ranch and leaving Montauk, to get past. Cole saw through the sales pitch, and he didn't like her for it.   

[Boundary]

Pallas, that makes sense why Alison would blame Cole, despite herself. The fact that she's stayed with him after blaming him for such a thing makes no sense, however, unless they both know it's no one's fault or both their fault.

[Pallas]

Alison can blame Cole, without actually really holding him responsible...just as I imagine that she blames herself.  If Gabriel was with Cole when he died, however, that gives the blame some bite.  Not much; until the day she met Noah -- until Gabriel turned four -- she didn't feel the need to do much more about it than she'd already been doing: withholding, withdrawing, and cuddling with her own depression.  Letting Cole know that she's the one who gets to decide when they've grieved hard and long enough.

 

And now, Alison's affair hasn't changed much between them.  Oblivious to Cole as she still seems, he's still on eggshells around her: as if he knows there's something worse she could be saying, than not saying anything.  He knows she's still letting him know that he doesn't get to question her depression: it's hers, she bore it, she's nurturing it, and he doesn't get to take this away from her, too.

 

All unspoken, irrational and inchoate, but not left unexpressed by the two actors, I believe.  

[Boundary]

Well put. I have never experienced this but every time I watched a couple on tv lose a child and then break up eventually, I always thought that rang true. Again, I don't have personal experience of this, thankfully, so what do I know? But ever since the first episode I've really wanted an explanation of why she hasn't left him and you've  given quite a credible answer.

[stillshimpy]

I think statistically that many marriages break up after losing a child, although the three couples I know who had that happen (oh jeez, actually four) all stayed together, so I don't know for sure.  

 

Alison can swim, Cole invited her to go surfing with him.  

 

Pallas, I don't get the sense that Cole was in anyway responsible for Gabriel's death. If anything, I think there might be some reason to believe that Alison blames herself.  Cole really let Athena have it about how Cherry took care of Alison when she couldn't even bathe herself, which is a level of grief that suggests something that is near catatonia.   I don't think Cole would bring that up in that lecturing tone if he had been responsible for Gabriel's death even through negligence..  

 

Also, I just don't think Cole would take such a self-righteous tone in so many things, or say something as cloddish as "I always am..." if he had been supervising their son when the boy died.  It doesn't make emotional sense to me that he would take that preachy tone with her so often if he had that soul-crushing guilt.  Also, it's Alison who doesn't care what happens to her and that actually suggests that she blames herself, not Cole.  

Edited December 13, 2014 by AmandaPanda
poster's request

[blixie]

 

Alison can swim, Cole invited her to go surfing with him.

 

No, he asked her to WATCH. Obvs no one is reliable here, but she has made the statement in the show that she can't swim (to Noah in his POV), Cole mentioned to Athena that after Gabriel died she couldn't go "near the water", and last episode again he invites her to watch him surf, not actually to swim or go in the water.

 

Wholly besides that I was responding to someone else's speculation that Allison might have personally drowned her child on purpose. I was arguing that I find it more likely she merely FEELS like she drowned her kid. I believe she does feel guilty (which is not the same as her being actually responsible) and indeed has been speciously accused of being negligent/incapable of parenting by both her mother in law Cherry saying they'd have another baby and move in with her because how nice it'd be for Allison to have some "help" next time around, and Helen's mother asks her if she's the  little girl who lost her baby, looks at her askance and suggests she "take care of herself". It's a perfectly reasonable speculation that not only does she blame herself right or wrong, but that her husband's family and the larger community do too (even though this makes them ASSHOLES).

Edited November 24, 2014 by AmandaPanda
Took out blank quote box

[WaltersHair]

I've been under the impression that Alison was responsible for her son's death. Cole's mother says something about her moving into the house so she'd have 'more help' next time. Meaning, I assume, that Alison was being neglectful at the time of his death.

I could be wrong, of course. One thing the series makes clear is that no one is a reliable witness. For all we know, Oscar is pussy cat.

[Higgs]

I've been under the impression that Alison was responsible for her son's death. Cole's mother says something about her moving into the house so she'd have 'more help' next time. Meaning, I assume, that Alison was being neglectful at the time of his death.

"More help next time" from a drug queenpin proves beyond a shadow of doubt that Gabriel drowned in their bathtub when Alison carelessly looked down at her cell for an instant to read a text message regarding the time of the next fishing boat pickup. (If he had drowned at the beach, it wouldn't have mattered which house Cole's family was living in.) Like Livia Soprano, Ma Lockhart doesn't suffer fools and their mistakes gladly, son or no son, as Scotty was to find out. (His last words, as reported by Whitney, were "et tu, Mater?" The detective overcame his suspicions regarding the veracity of that testimony when he learned that Scotty had gotten a B+ in high school English the year they studied "Julius Caesar.") Edited November 19, 2014 by Higgs

[Blakeston]

Anything is possible, and we have nothing resembling proof that Alison or Cole was with Gabriel when he died.

 

But I think the clues point to Alison having been there. (That doesn't mean Cole wasn't there, too.) Between Alison being so terrified of water after Gabriel's death, and Cole's mother's implication that Alison didn't have enough "help" the first time around, it sounds like the writers are hinting at Alison being with Gabriel when he died.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Blakeston

[AmandaPanda]

Hi everyone,

 

Please remember to keep your posts civil. Keep the speculation on the content of the show, rather than personally attacking the other posters in the forum. You all have some excellent ideas about the mysteries of this show. Don't let your speculation get ignored because other posters are turned off by your tone. 

 

Thanks,

AmandaPanda

[Pallas]

Noah's second novel: I wonder if it is based more on what Noah and we now know of Bruce's story, than on his own.

 

We know the book sold well and will be sold as the basis for a film.  We can infer that Noah did indeed set at least parts of it in Montauk, since he tells the detective to refer to his book for background about the town's internecine politics, and that it contains a reference to the signpost for The End.  Even back when Noah was pitching it to Bruce's agent, Noah noted that it would contain the twist of the protagonist's murdering his lover.  The meeting with the agent followed hard upon the heels of the houseparty where both Noah's wife and mother-in-law were upset by the presence of Bruce's lover -- and where Noah found Bruce himself to be particularly dickish to Noah, in the presence of the agent. At that time it seems Noah didn't know about Bruce's crucial affair with his student, back in the day.  But Bruce's recent affair(s) were an established fact within the extended family, and even within Montauk.  And at the time Noah met with the agent, Noah certainly wasn't looking to arouse speculation about his own affair with Alison.  

 

There are several reasons Noah might choose to focus the novel on an older, wealthy, dickish man's murderous affair, rather than his own.  (Even if it suggests antecedents ranging from Woody Allen's Crimes and Misdemeanors on back through film and literature.)  After Noah's discussion with Bruce in episode 8, Noah may or may not have added some shadings to the portrayal of the protagonist/antihero, the lover, and their affair. That this storyline still might seem to give the finger to Noah's father-in-law, who helped get it published, is what Noah might remind Bruce is what the critics call "irony." 

[Bcharmer]

 

 

Anything is possible, and we have nothing resembling proof that Alison or Cole was with Gabriel when he died.

But I think the clues point to Alison having been there. (That doesn't mean Cole wasn't there, too.) Between Alison being so terrified of water after Gabriel's death, and Cole's mother's implication that Alison didn't have enough "help" the first time around, it sounds like the writers are hinting at Alison being with Gabriel when he died.

 

I missed the part about her being terrified of the water. But I do remember her telling Noah (can't remember who's version this was, though) that she couldn't swim. He said something like, "You live on the beach and you can't swim? I'll teach you!"  Not being able to swim is a little different than being terrified, but I do agree that it's more likely she was with Gabriel when he drowned, and she was unable to save him.

[Pallas]

I missed the part about her being terrified of the water. But I do remember her telling Noah (can't remember who's version this was, though) that she couldn't swim. He said something like, "You live on the beach and you can't swim? I'll teach you!"

 

As I recall, Alison said, "I don't go in the water."  That could mean a few things.  

[Boundary]

As I recall, Alison said, "I don't go in the water."  That could mean a few things.  

 

Or one thing. For someone who grew up right next to the North Atlantic it'd be unusual I think if she's never been able to swim. Besides, she once talked passionately about her grandfather's fishing and about fisherman's lifestyle/life in the water in general - it should be fair to presume she used to swim before Gabriel's tragedy.

[Higgs]

We have been shown all that is necessary to comprehend how the Butler money corrupted the Solloway family, and, thereby, the psychological forces that drove Noah to infidelity. That the details of Alison's role, if any, in Gabriel's drowning have not been fully revealed is perverse. It's something Noah would (should?) have asked about, or Alison volunteered, and would have given viewers a deeper understanding of and empathy with the two characters important enough to have gotten their portrayers GG nominations for leads.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Higgs

[Bcharmer]

Okay... this was driving me crazy, because I could have sworn she said she couldn't swim. So I just rewatched the beach scenes from the second episode (the Butler's party).

 

In Noah's version, they walk out to the beach, and Alison immediately runs into the surf, up to her calves, holding her shoes in her hand.

She says, "Join me. It's beautiful!" No further discussion about water.

 

In Alison's version, they walk out onto the beach, and here's their convo:

 

Alison: Wow. I've never been on one of these beaches.

Noah: You want to go in the water?

Alison: No. I can't swim.

Noah. You live at the beach and you can't swim? It's a travesty!

Alison: Not really.

Noah: Well, I'm a swimmer. I'll teach you.

Alison: (chuckles) Right.

 

End of water convo.

 

So, were there more conversations in later episodes, then, where they talked about her fear of the water?

Edited December 13, 2014 by Bcharmer

[Higgs]

At that point in time, Noah didn't yet know about Gabriel. He was enchanted. In this instance, there can be no question that Alison's version is definitive, as she is speaking about her own distinct characteristics.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Higgs

[Pallas]

Great catch, Bcharmer, thank you!  And there's the thing about memory.  I not only thought for sure Alison had said "I don't go in the water," but that she said it in their first extended conversation, walking away from  the bonfire.  

[scrb]

Huh?

 

Because Bruce helped the family live more comfortably, have a standard of living greater than what Noah's income could provide, Noah was driven to infidelity?

 

Something funny about Noah's account.  He's like being tempted all the time and he's being a good faithful husband when they're in Brooklyn.  But as soon as they go out to the country, Noah jumps on the first waitress that winks at him?

 

Though in his account, Alison is like some biblical temptress saying and doing (flashing, having sex in front of him) provocative things?

 

It's not his first time out to Montauk so really, wouldn't it be more likely that he'd have the affair in Brooklyn?  The number of women he'd encounter is far greater.

[Higgs]

Because Bruce helped the family live more comfortably, have a standard of living greater than what Noah's income could provide, Noah was driven to infidelity?

It's not his first time out to Montauk so really, wouldn't it be more likely that he'd have the affair in Brooklyn? The number of women he'd encounter is far greater.

I'll deal with the second comment first as it's simpler. Noah wasn't looking for an affair, he was drawn for reasons he didn't fully understand himself to the singularity that was Alison, just as Bruce had been drawn to the student who "wasn't the prettiest" but who possessed the ineffable quality that "lit" him up. This sort of thing happens around the world a thousand times a day, if it happens once.

In-laws help out their married children all the time, and often it's a great benefit. The problem with the Solloway/Butler arrangement was the specific psychological dynamics at play. Bruce was a successful author, Noah aspired to the same. As long as he couldn't succeed in that, and the large majority of the financial support for his family was due to his wife, there was a drastic psychological imbalance of power in the marriage.

Here's how a reviewer for the New York Times sees it: http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/author/ginia-bellafante/

"Helen’s good news is a publicity blitz, and Noah seems genuinely happy for her when she tells him at dinner. But what follows tells us everything about why the Solloways’ marriage is so troubled and why Noah’s yearning for something else might run so deep. At a restaurant, Noah gives Helen a Tiffany necklace. It is a gesture to recognize that she has stayed with him and stuck it out despite his infidelity. Her response is to insist that he return it because they can’t afford it. And after all, she controls all the money. We encounter this theme of Helen’s dominance and control again in the couple’s therapy scene (and how great to see Blair Brown in the role of counselor) when Helen recounts her decision to marry Noah nearly as an act of charity. He was shy and without any money or real ambition and Helen, as she describes herself, 'could have had anyone.' You may have paused at that moment to remind yourself that Noah is played by Dominic West and not Don Rickles. Noah obviously, had his options, too, but presumably as a working-class kid, little of the confidence that might have been required to exercise them."

................

Not only does the Butler money make Noah feel emasculated with respect to Helen, regardless of whatever the objective truth might be, and highlight his failure to achieve success as a writer, but it also undermines his authority over his children and the repect they accord him. Martin's declared hatred for his grandfather is his intuitive, if inarticulate, realization that something is rotten in the Borough of Brooklyn, and Whitney's suspicion that it's her mother who's unfaithful speaks to her sense of a woman's needs when she perceives her husband as a failure.

The money also caused the Solloways to adopt a family lifestyle out of sync with Noah's basic nature. That he should choose to teach in a low-income NYC public high school (where the pay is HIGHER than in a private school, btw) I consider a good fit for his personality and abilities. He has the rare charisma absolutely necessary to command a classroom in that environment, gains great satisfaction from it, and contributes more than he would at, say, highly-selective Stuyvesant (where Pulitzer-winning author Frank McCourt taught for most of his career). But Helen? A Williams alumna selling tchotchkes in a vanity store that wouldn't survive a week without her father's dough, unless it was being used to launder drug money, and from which she can cavalierly take off two months each and every summer. This is a fantasy world of the kind George accused Kramer of living in. (Enough already with the Seinfeld references, Higgs.) This is the most fulfilling career a bright and beautiful woman can make for herself?

The Solloways, in the right town and the right house, would be the envy of their friends and the pride of their community. In a Brooklyn brownstone, with a little kid's French clothes needing to be dry cleaned, and a brat getting trained in advanced brattiness at a $30k/year private school, they're a case study in dysfunction. Helen and Noah share the blame about equally for all this. Helen for her haughty obtuseness, Noah for his passive-aggressive cowardice.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Higgs

[JenE4]

I agree that the environment of living in the shadow of Bruce--feeling emasculated as neither being a breadwinner or a successful writer--led to Noah's cheating. Noah and Helen seem to have a pretty good relationship (other than the occasional disagreement about money), so I could see him never considering cheating even when given the opportunity in Brooklyn. But then to spend 8 weeks(ish) in an environment where you're TRYING to write a book but being told that you'll never be a success by your very successful FIL--living every dime off of them for an entire summer, and your wife and MIL also chiming in about how much more money you need from them so he can write his little book, etc. It has to be entirely emasculating. So when he meets a "waitress" who's even below his "social station," here's someone who's impressed with HIS accomplishments and isn't going to constantly point out what he's NOT. That's going to appeal to him right when he's feeling very wounded.

Likewise, Allison has spent two years feeling wounded. EVERYONE--even wealthy Mrs. Bulter--knows she's the poor woman who lost her child. But here's some stranger who doesn't know that about her and can just make her feel the joy that she hasn't felt in two years.

Yet, the summer/affair ends, Noah still has to live in the shadow of Bruce--seeing him getting an award and knowing he'll have to ask him to pay for private school for another kid. Allison has not only lost her son, but now her beloved grandmother who raised her. Maybe she feels the eyes of pity/sympathy (not empathy) weighing so heavy on her that she's afraid to even tell her husband and his family that her grandmother died or let them see her holding Gabriel's belongings.

They both have families that make them feel self-conscious about the weakest parts of themselves. So, I can see why these two people who would have never otherwise cheated felt vulnerable enough to just want a break from the parts of themselves that they can't stand yet can't get away from.

Yet, in 3-4 years, they do! Allison has another child, and Noah is a mega success as an author! I bet he'll even win a Pulitzer since Bruce mentioned twice how he has not won one. Was the affair the starting point of them recognizing they can change how they feel about themselves? I think so. Allison and Cole are committed to rebuilding their family. (Yet, it's just as likely that it's not Cole's child.) Noah seems to be a bit more focused on instead of resenting Bruce's help, it seems to me that the affair got then to open up in their first-ever heart-to-heart, and maybe that was what Noah needed to hear to focus his feelings for his muse into his work.

[Boundary]

Hey Higgs, don't you dare stop them Seinfeld references! But if you do, I'll stop writing essays. Talking of which, here's another one.

 

Something funny about Noah's account.  He's like being tempted all the time and he's being a good faithful husband when they're in Brooklyn.  But as soon as they go out to the country, Noah jumps on the first waitress that winks at him?

 

The most telling sentence from Noah was in the therapist's office (hi Blair Brown). He said, "I feel like a fraud". It took him 20 years of marriage and four kids but eventually his downtrodden spirit found a way to express itself. "I've never made one mistake, nobody lives like that" which of course is a justification he must have believed at the time and is most likely one of the reasons he started an affair; she was "just a waitress" and at that point he didn't know about her tragedy or anything about her really. But with time he found that he couldn't stay away from her, despite himself, and that's been the case ever since. After a two month affair, and four months of therapy, he still can't draw himself away from Alison, it stopped being about needing to make a mistake a while ago. He's now in love with another woman who's not his wife. 

 

And we know the reason why he fell in love, there's a darkness around her he can't resist, whatever that means (I believe it means he likes the fact she's not perfect, that she needs work, that she's authentic - a word I use often around Noah - and that she's not, excuse the language, some young bimbo with a perfect body in a Brooklyn swimming pool). Crucially, Alison understands his passion for teaching, his lighthouse hobby and other little things like that that feed his spirit and therefore is able to inspire him towards a bestseller, something Helen's family's nagging failed to do. 

 

Likewise, Allison has spent two years feeling wounded. EVERYONE--even wealthy Mrs. Bulter--knows she's the poor woman who lost her child. But here's some stranger who doesn't know that about her and can just make her feel the joy that she hasn't felt in two years.

 

I find it funny how Noah underplays (or perhaps misunderstands) his effect on Alison. His memories focus on how much she finds him hot. Her focus is on how much he's helping her heal. It sounds like before the show began her trauma was tremendous, she needed help just to take a bath. Even two years later when we meet her she's always got this dark cloud around her (kudos to Ruth Wilson). No one seems to know how to help her. On Gabriel's birthday they all leave her alone and walk on egg shells around her. It really seems like she's never too far away from a breakdown. And yet, after a few months with Noah, after letting go of her grandmother it was implied that she was also ready to let go of Gabriel as well. I mentioned in passing in the episode thread how huge that is. That alone is enough to explain why she's in love with Noah, or perhaps it's a result of being in love. That is why I now don't think she goes on to be with anyone else.

 

Yet, in 3-4 years, they do! Allison has another child, and Noah is a mega success as an author! I bet he'll even win a Pulitzer ...

 

Now since this is a speculation thread, let me unleash. I think she is with Noah in the future. It is a sort of justice for both of them, together they both go on to get the things they yearned for but it comes at a tremendous cost to many other people. If I was a writer that's the route I'd take, it has a bitter sweet combination to it. They inspire each other to be themselves and it turns out to be a successful recipe. But for Noah to find himself he has to leave his family, for him to be with his muse he has to hurt his wife. Alison of the future is put together (well, except her nervousness about a little thing called murder), it could be Noah's money but I'd like to believe that she went back to her nursing profession (I think it's too late for her to become a doctor, what with baby demands). Of course Whitney and the other Solloway kids do partake in their dad's future success but for them it's also bittersweet. 

 

Alternatively, Alison has Cole's kid but is separated from him. She really needs to leave Cole, that marriage is doomed. Noah and Helen's marriage has higher chances of survival than that one: they are more honest, they are trying therapy and are at least fighting to keep the marriage, both of them. Cole doesn't know how to emotionally be with Alison anymore, when her grandmother died she didn't even call him. His solution for her affair is to try for another baby. The whole mantra of that marriage is "sweep it under the rug". She's admitted to Noah she doesn't love Cole anymore, and admitted to her best friend she loves another man, that Noah is more of a reality than the man she shares a bed with every night. But how do they deal with this as a couple? They totally ignore it. So in the future, if Noah's marriage survives, I can see Alison divorcing Cole (taking half of his share of the ranch - she is entitled to it) and heading to the city to raise their kid as a single parent. 

Edited December 13, 2014 by Boundary

[gingerella]

So, is this the catch-all thread for this show?  If so, ahead I shall proceed...

 

People keep mentioning who was at fault in Gabriel's drowning, and referencing that the think Alison cannot swim. I find it quite odd that in all the main websites and On Demand sites, the main photo that represents these two lovers is both of them up to their neck/shoulders in the ocean. Odd visual to represent a couple where one is allegedly terrified of the water and/or cannot swim. What sayeth you all?

 

Also, I find it interesting that I haven't seen much talk of this but it might be buried in episode threads from early in the season - for me as a viewer, the sex scenes are very hot. I appreciate that it's not fake ass porny wannabe sex, but rather sex as normal run of the mill folks could have, but it's passionate and hot. I rarely feel like I'm watching gratuitous sex scenes in this show (thank you Joshua Jackson for showing me Pacey's ass after all these post-Dawson years!). So that got me to thinking about how Alison appears to be really into sexual connections with both her husband and her lover. I am willing to bet that most women who have suffered the tragic and seemingly preventable loss of a child, to the point where they are inconsolable and emotionally fragile as hell, would not be bumping uglies with so much gusto, let alone so much frequency.  So I am confused over this piece of the puzzle. I guess if she wasn't shown having frequent sex with her own husband, the affair and her enthusiasm for Noah, would make more sense to me. Maybe it's just me though.

 

Related to the dynamics between Noah and Bruce, regardless of financial backgrounds and who married whom for what family money, I think on a basic level, Bruce knows he's not a "good person", that he essentially fucked over a good woman - his wife - married her for her family wealth, lived off that wealth, fucked other women anyway - poorer women whom he wanted more but was not willing to live less opulently with - and he probably has had Noah's "virtue" thrown in his face for years now. Noah The Saint - an earnest writer who toils away teaching seemingly disadvantaged youth in the public school system, who lives life in the gutter and on the streets as opposed to shutting himself away in a manse and sheltering himself from "reality" so to speak. Noah The Perfect Father And Husband - who appears to be a solid and reliable and faithful husband and father.  Everything Bruce is not, regardless of the money aspect. So for Bruce to learn that Noah's been schtupping a Montauk waitress must have filled Bruce with glee on some level. And yet, they are now equals, Noah and Bruce. Bruce gives his oft-maligned son in law a little heart to heart about affairs of the heart, encourages him to use Alison as his muse and write from that place of anguish and loss...blah blah blah fishcakes...you know what I mean. I don't think the money plays as big a role in all of this between those two as does the feeling that Bruce now gets to not be the only fellow sitting on the Shit Stew Throne. Now he shares it with Noah and he's not the only asshole in the family. That's the bond I see now between those two.  In the scene where Bruce is stuck in the chair and Noah helps him up, I think that's where Noah has his own epiphany that he doesn't want to end up like Bruce - rich but alone, with nobody to love him.  I thought in the moments following that epiphany, Noah would take to writing or even go home to Helen, but then we see him at the hospital and it's unclear if he went back to see Alison after that chat with Bruce, or if the hospital thing happened before that.

 

Anyway, I'm just rambling so I'll stop now. I am seriously bummed out that this show only has two more epis in this season, grrrrr!

[Boundary]

Actually this a speculation thread, what we think might happen.

 

 I am willing to bet that most women who have suffered the tragic and seemingly preventable loss of a child, to the point where they are inconsolable and emotionally fragile as hell, would not be bumping uglies with so much gusto, let alone so much frequency.  So I am confused over this piece of the puzzle. I guess if she wasn't shown having frequent sex with her own husband, the affair and her enthusiasm for Noah, would make more sense to me. Maybe it's just me though.

 

 

Maybe she's just over compensating? In their first post-coitus scene, Alison asked Cole if they'd just had sex for 1000th time. Also, I think she just loves sex, regardless of anything else. We saw that when Noah was having an affair, he couldn't maintain the pace with Helen but we never saw Cole complaining, not that he does anyway. So she kept both men satisfied.