S01.E08: Laura's Story

[statsgirl]

Quote

A grieving mother learns that facts and evidence are no match for viral misinformation when she discovers a growing online conspiracy.

Molly Parker, Margo Martindale, Shawn Doyle, Arlene Duncan.

Airdate March 14 2023.

[Spartan Girl]

Just from the preview alone, I can already say that Margo Martindale’s character deserves whatever she gets. 

[AnimeMania]

Margo Martindale as Joanna Pierce

Tara Nicodermo as Molly Parker 

Liam MacDonald as Jonah Broder
Shawn Doyle as Eric Broder
Ian Morris as Ben
Marcia Bennett as Judge
Arlene Duncan as Meredith Lawson
Samantha Espie as Lake County Police Officer

[Snazzy Daisy]

 

[Spartan Girl]

I knew it. I knew the second Jonah ran out of the courtroom that Laura was covering for him.

Joanna didn’t suffer enough for my taste. That ugly loudmouth bitch from hell did not have a soul. And I can’t feel sorry for her family, they either supported her bile or enabled it. Either way, they didn’t stop her from torturing those poor families. So screw them.

They really should have ended the episode with Jonah coming clean. Laura taking the fall for him doesn’t make a lot of sense: any good defense attorney would have made it case by rehashing how messed up he was after his brother was killed and what Joanna and the rest of those nuts did to them. I doubt a jury would have given a harsh sentence when plenty of them would have gladly killed her themselves. Knowing his mother is in prison because of what he did isn’t going to help “ heal” him or his dad.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[Kleav]

Quite a different role for Margo. She was great--I almost throttled her through my screen.

[gesundheit]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

They really should have ended the episode with Jonah coming clean. Laura taking the fall for him doesn’t make a lot of sense: any good defense attorney would have made it case by rehashing how messed up he was after his brother was killed and what Joanna and the rest of those nuts did to them. I doubt a jury would have given a harsh sentence when plenty of them would have gladly killed her themselves. Knowing his mother is in prison because of what he did isn’t going to help “ heal” him or his dad.

That was my feeling too. This was a cruelty to Jonah. He has to take this secret to his grave and never get the proper support to process and heal. That family will never recover. Such a bleak ending.

 

I was wondering if the school shooting was the same one from the first episode? I couldn't remember where that one took place. Or they just had two school shooting episodes this close together, completely unrelated? I suppose it would be interesting if some of the cases were linked, just in a way to demonstrate the far-reaching consequences of acts of violence, cover-ups, etc.

[buckboard]

Once again, this show takes a serious issue and handles it in a ridiculous fashion.  Why didn't Laura and her husband sue the denier?  Or at least speak to any attorney to strategize how to handle the damage caused by the conspiracy theorists without trying to take it on all by themselves.  It worked for the parents in Newtown who sued Alex Jones?  The denier obviously caused harm to Laura's family over and over.

Why didn't Laura and her husband send Jonah to a therapist to deal with his trauma?  He obviously wasn't handling it well.  For that matter, why didn't they go to family therapy?

Laura's conviction is showing love for Jonah how?  He was troubled before, but now he has to live with being a murderer, with his mother going to prison for him and his father letting his mother cover for him.  People will remember her for being a hypocrite, a murderer, rather than someone fighting for gun control legislation.  

[possibilities]

I generally like this show, but I was really frustrated by this episode and thought the parents were incredibly annoying.

First of all, that gun was not secured if the kid could just take it and use it. What kind of lock was it under that the kid could quickly grab it and run and shoot someone?

2nd, the father kept arguing that they were in danger, but he could have taken the kid someplace safe even if the mother wouldn't go. Either you think you are in immediate danger or you don't. If you do think that, then act on it. You already lost one kid, so get off the stick already. He was willing to buy a gun without his wfe's approval, but not to take the kid somewhere safe, even temporarily? Even for a weekend????

3rd, the mother was refusing to learn from her mistakes or take anybody else seriously. Maybe she was mad with grief but I still found her annoying and self-absorbed.

And yes, not consulting a lawyer or a therapist was idiocy.

Expecting their kid, who was falling apart already, to keep the secret and lose his mom and not have any support was unrealistic as well as stupid and callous.

They also should have consulted other families who had gone through this-- there are lots of groups who are working with survivors of gun violence, not only as support groups but also as activists. They didn't have to re-invent the wheel or rely on the one parent group they had, which didn't seem to share their temperament or be on the same page with the mom about how to handle it.

I get that it wasn't their fault they were in a terrible situation, but they acted like they were more alone than they were, and anyone white and privileged enough to think the cops were their allies also has the ability to think a lawyer or therapist of other group of survivors or activists might be worth consulting, instead of pretending you're all alone and have no resources.

I was less sympathetic to them than to any of the other accused in any of the other episodes, even though objectively they were in fact victims of a terrible injustice. They had options, resources, access to information and education-- mom on a tenure track for godsake knows how to do research and how to network, she ought to have been more savvy about the world-- and even their attempts at dialogue were unskillful and naive and arrogant. They were less mature than their teenager.

When the mom got out of the car and ventured into the crowd of protesters, telling her kid to stay in the car, I felt like she was one of the stupidest people I've ever seen on the show. She was ignoring her living kid's absolute panic, and stomping off to do what? Lose her temper ineffectually yet again? 

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by possibilities

[Spartan Girl]

5 hours ago, buckboard said:

Why didn't Laura and her husband sue the denier?  Or at least speak to any attorney to strategize how to handle the damage caused by the conspiracy theorists without trying to take it on all by themselves.  It worked for the parents in Newtown who sued Alex Jones?

Well, considering that Alex Jones is still playing the victim and some of his followers hadn’t let up on harassing them or spreading the lines, it didn’t exactly make it all stop.

Honestly, Laura was more nicer to the protesters in the beginning than I would have been. Even when she stupidly confronted Joanna at the school, she didn’t actually assault her—I was disappointed she didn’t try to hit her with her own megaphone. 

Maybe I’m reading too much into this, but knowing the network, it was very hard not to side-eye the messaging. What were they trying to imply? That everything was all Laura’s fault because she wanted to speak out on gun control instead of take care of her family? That she should have just ignored all the harassers in the first place and they would have gone away like everyone said? That the hoaxers are still humans, even though they didn’t show one once of compassion to the families?

Also why didn’t Jonah just defy his parents and tell the truth? No way I’d let my mother go to jail for me.

5 hours ago, buckboard said:

Laura's conviction is showing love for Jonah how?  He was troubled before, but now he has to live with being a murderer, with his mother going to prison for him and his father letting his mother cover for him.  People will remember her for being a hypocrite, a murderer, rather than someone fighting for gun control legislation.  

I don’t know. I think plenty of people would have found Joanna despicable and think, if not say out loud, that she had it coming, even though of course it was still wrong.

[Madding crowd]

This episode made me feel upset and I felt nothing but sympathy for the parents. Yes, the mother should have ignored the trolls but I can’t imagine struggling with your child’s  death and then having people try to erase his existence. I don’t understand why they had a second show about a school shooting.

Another thing that bothered me: I live in Chicago and Park Ridge/Lake Forest are wealthy suburbs and there would be many, many people who would be supportive of Laura and her family. They show made it seem like more people would support the troll. I do wish it would have ended with the woman’s who was torturing Laura to suffer a legal or financial consequence rather than the shooting.

[Spartan Girl]

11 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I do wish it would have ended with the woman’s who was torturing Laura to suffer a legal or financial consequence rather than the shooting.

Or at least Joanna’s family apologizing to the family and admitting they should have done something to stop her and thus prevent this from happening, instead of showing them just sitting there silently. Really, that part makes me angry too. Were they part of the cult or did they just not care she was torturing parents of murdered children?

Edited March 15, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[possibilities]

I did think the mother was extremely generous to try to meet with and talk to the deniers, but why did they meet in a parking lot instead of somewhere indoors, where everyone could sit down, and possibly actually look at the documents? Why did she not prepare at all emotionally, or by researching the arguments they were using, so she'd be less shocked by what they said and more prepared to answer? Why did she lose patience so quickly and storm off; she had to know that it wouldn't be easy, but she acted like she thought they would just fold instantly.  

And yes, there would of course be a lot of people who would support her, but they seemed committed to the idea that the family was all alone.

[kwnyc]

Maybe I've watched too many tv shows, but wouldn't an autopsy have shown that the horrible woman was shot by someone from below? And would they have tested Joanna's hand for gunshot residue? (Or does her confession mean they don't have to?)

And wouldn't any real police work have turned up the holes in the story? Or the phone records/location shown that the son went to the house (not to mention the Uber records?) 

I know what they were going for, but they didn't get there.

[possibilities]

I agree, but maybe they didn't bother with that kind of investigation because they had a confession. The question was not whether she shot anyone, but whether it was justified or what degree of punishment she would get. They didn't really say, but I imagine she might have claimed self-defense, or the argument might have been between 1st/premeditated murder while she claimed 2nd degree, or something like that.

[Spartan Girl]

4 hours ago, possibilities said:

I did think the mother was extremely generous to try to meet with and talk to the deniers, but why did they meet in a parking lot instead of somewhere indoors, where everyone could sit down, and possibly actually look at the documents? Why did she not prepare at all emotionally, or by researching the arguments they were using, so she'd be less shocked by what they said and more prepared to answer? Why did she lose patience so quickly and storm off; she had to know that it wouldn't be easy, but she acted like she thought they would just fold instantly.  

In fairness, things were civil until Joanna showed up and started antagonizing everyone while filming herself, no less. And even if Laura had been better prepared, it would still be extremely difficult not to lose patience with that level of ignorance.

[marceline]

I have so much affection for Margo Martindale and within mere seconds she made me hate this character so much I cheered her death. She really is a phenomenal actress.

I hope this is the beginning of a trend in pop culture where conspiracy theorists are treated the way they deserve. It was really gratifying. I agree with earlier comments that this case was winnable but I feel like the show chose to punish Laura because it didn't want to send the message that shooting conspiracy theorists is good.

I also agree with those who say the show had good intentions but missed the mark. 

Jonah is screwed. He's never going to know peace. His brother was murdered in a mass shooting and his mom is in prison because she covered for him. He will be a mess for the rest of his life. If there's a S2 of this show, Jonah would be a good story to revisit.

19 hours ago, gesundheit said:

I was wondering if the school shooting was the same one from the first episode?

I wondered the same thing but I don't think so. The shooting in E1 was in a high school and it sounded like Liam's death in this one was more of a Sandy Hook situation. I wish that the show had given us a few details about the shooting in this ep. Did they mention what happened to the shooter in this episode?

Edited March 15, 2023 by marceline

[Snazzy Daisy]

The inability to grieve properly and to process your anger can ruin one’s life.

I see Laura as a selfish person, based on her actions and decisions she made. She didn’t have to respond to online trolls to validate Liam’s existence. Jonas was right, ignore them. Her pleading guilty will not solve any problem and will not provide some peace to Eric and Jonah.

The guilt and regret will continue to eat them alive.

[circumvent]

6 hours ago, SnazzyDaisy said:

The inability to grieve properly and to process your anger can ruin one’s life.

I see Laura as a selfish person, based on her actions and decisions she made. She didn’t have to respond to online trolls to validate Liam’s existence. Jonas was right, ignore them. Her pleading guilty will not solve any problem and will not provide some peace to Eric and Jonah.

The guilt and regret will continue to eat them alive.

I think there is a case to be make for the actions. It is an allegory of how social media has driven people to just lose all humanity. Places like Twitter are just a cesspool of nastiness where everyone fights and nobody agrees. It is a place ripe for people who are disgruntled and don't know how to deal with life - and there are reasons for that - so they go behind a pseudonym to say what they won't say as themselves. Then there are the ones who see an opportunity to cash in on the despair. Laura's actions, or rather, Jonah's action's, were an extreme example of how things may unravel in such situations.

Having said that, I don't think this was the objective of the episode. But the toll on people who are harassed is so big, it drives them to depression. I am not only talking about this type of vicious attack with clear misinformation. In places like Twitter, people who just dare to disagree with someone get crushed and sometimes are pushed out of the platform, which can lead them to even lose income. Social media is anything but social.

I agree that the kid is damaged forever. They should have come clean. He would probably get a sentence based on compassion, and therapy, which he clearly needs. Then his record would be expunged, lifting one of the many burdens in his adult life.

[Spartan Girl]

Ignoring the trolls doesn’t make them go away.

Maybe it’s me, but I’m starting to feel like this episode was more interested in holding Laura for Joanna’s (and Jonah’s) actions than holding Joanna accountable for her own actions. Even one review of this episode said “Joanna was horrible, but she still had the right to free speech.” Uh “free speech” doesn’t and shouldn’t mean starting a bullshit conspiracy theory and smearing grieving parents as liars and pedophiles barely two months after a shooting just because you don’t want to believe it happened. It doesn’t give you the right to hurt people. 

Everyone in this episode blamed Laura for supposedly making everything worse, but odds were they would have gotten doxxed even if Laura hadn’t spoken out because that was the kind of people they were dealing with. For all his talk about ignoring them, Jonah still was the one mad enough to take the gun and shoot Joanna—but he shouldn’t be blamed for not telling the truth because Laura told him not to and Eric just let it happen?

I’m starting to feel like this show should be called “Blame the Victim” instead of “Accused.”

[possibilities]

As far as I know, Alex Jones is the only one IRL who has been held at all accountable legally for the promotion of these kinds of denialist theories. So, sadly, I think that Joanna not being considered legally liable for her own behavior is probably realistic. The Alex Jones case took many, many years, and the parents (from Sandy Hook) who sued were extremely organized, united, determined, and legally savvy in order to make it happen.

[buckboard]

4 hours ago, possibilities said:

 The Alex Jones case took many, many years, and the parents (from Sandy Hook) who sued were extremely organized, united, determined, and legally savvy in order to make it happen.

Yes, and that's why Laura should have been in touch with other families who have been through that horrible situation.  No, not all litigated against their harrassers, but they could have provided Laura with support and some strategy, so she wasn't fighting her grief and the deniers alone.  

Edited March 16, 2023 by buckboard

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 3/14/2023 at 9:04 PM, Spartan Girl said:

I knew it. I knew the second Jonah ran out of the courtroom that Laura was covering for him.

Joanna didn’t suffer enough for my taste. That ugly loudmouth bitch from hell did not have a soul. And I can’t feel sorry for her family, they either supported her bile or enabled it. Either way, they didn’t stop her from torturing those poor families. So screw them.

They really should have ended the episode with Jonah coming clean. Laura taking the fall for him doesn’t make a lot of sense: any good defense attorney would have made it case by rehashing how messed up he was after his brother was killed and what Joanna and the rest of those nuts did to them. I doubt a jury would have given a harsh sentence when plenty of them would have gladly killed her themselves. Knowing his mother is in prison because of what he did isn’t going to help “ heal” him or his dad.

The way the show was playing it, there was actually a mostly competent defense attorney for once and they were winning, but the prosecution was going to force Jonah to the stand to testify about the phone call that was made shortly before the killing. And somehow the defense attorney could not fight this. It's unclear if the defense attorney knew that Jonah was the actual shooter or not, and I'm under the impression that she was just defending the case on the "Joanna had it coming" angle.

On 3/14/2023 at 10:17 PM, gesundheit said:

I was wondering if the school shooting was the same one from the first episode? I couldn't remember where that one took place. Or they just had two school shooting episodes this close together, completely unrelated? I suppose it would be interesting if some of the cases were linked, just in a way to demonstrate the far-reaching consequences of acts of violence, cover-ups, etc.

I thought about that possibility too. The first shooting was also in Illinois and in the greater Chicagoland area. I think, though, that shooting had 7 dead and this one had 8. Could be remembering incorrectly. It would be interesting if there were interconnections. But it could just be the point raised in the episode that mass shootings are depressingly common now.

On 3/15/2023 at 12:54 AM, possibilities said:

I generally like this show, but I was really frustrated by this episode and thought the parents were incredibly annoying.

First of all, that gun was not secured if the kid could just take it and use it. What kind of lock was it under that the kid could quickly grab it and run and shoot someone?

2nd, the father kept arguing that they were in danger, but he could have taken the kid someplace safe even if the mother wouldn't go. Either you think you are in immediate danger or you don't. If you do think that, then act on it. You already lost one kid, so get off the stick already. He was willing to buy a gun without his wfe's approval, but not to take the kid somewhere safe, even temporarily? Even for a weekend????

...

They also should have consulted other families who had gone through this-- there are lots of groups who are working with survivors of gun violence, not only as support groups but also as activists. They didn't have to re-invent the wheel or rely on the one parent group they had, which didn't seem to share their temperament or be on the same page with the mom about how to handle it.

 

Seemed to me that the gun safe had a press-button combo lock. Jonah watched his father open it and was apparently able to remember the combination.

There's different levels of danger. I think the dad reasonably thought the danger was imminent, but not super imminent if that makes sense.

In fairness to the parents, they were already getting kicked out of one support group for victims of this shooting.

On 3/15/2023 at 8:02 AM, Madding crowd said:

This episode made me feel upset and I felt nothing but sympathy for the parents. Yes, the mother should have ignored the trolls but I can’t imagine struggling with your child’s  death and then having people try to erase his existence. I don’t understand why they had a second show about a school shooting.

Another thing that bothered me: I live in Chicago and Park Ridge/Lake Forest are wealthy suburbs and there would be many, many people who would be supportive of Laura and her family. They show made it seem like more people would support the troll. I do wish it would have ended with the woman’s who was torturing Laura to suffer a legal or financial consequence rather than the shooting.

Howdy neighbor!

I think we have to accept that these shows are just slapping the names of whatever towns/courts they want. This episode's court, for instance, supposedly took place in federal court in Lake Forest. Well, as far as I know, there's just one federal courthouse in this part of Illinois and that's in downtown Chicago. The family in question lives in Lake Forest, but I think the school shooting this episode took place at Park Ridge High School. I might be wrong but I would assume someone from Lake Forest would go to school in Lake Forest (as far as a public school, anyway) and not in Park Ridge. 

On 3/15/2023 at 10:55 AM, kwnyc said:

Maybe I've watched too many tv shows, but wouldn't an autopsy have shown that the horrible woman was shot by someone from below? And would they have tested Joanna's hand for gunshot residue? (Or does her confession mean they don't have to?)

And wouldn't any real police work have turned up the holes in the story? Or the phone records/location shown that the son went to the house (not to mention the Uber records?) 

I know what they were going for, but they didn't get there.

I suppose Laura could say that she was on the floor when she shot Joanna, in a similar position to where Jonah was. They might not have bothered to test her hand for gunshot residue against the confession. I don't know if they did it would have come off as negative since she handled a freshly fired gun. And yes, if the cops did any real legwork, they should have been able to determine that Laura made calls to son's cell phone, where roughly Laura was when she made those calls, where son was where he received them. They would have to explain why there was an uber trip to Joanna's house right around the time of the murder, and there's the risk that the uber driver would remember, "Hey I took this kid to that house just before that lady was shot."

[possibilities]

3 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

In fairness to the parents, they were already getting kicked out of one support group for victims of this shooting.

On 3/15/2023 at 9:02 AM, Madding crowd said:

There are FAMOUS groups advocating for families like this one, and organizing on the policy issues the mother wanted to be active in. Any family with a child who was murdered like this, would know that, and the groups might even reach out to you. There's no way anyone, especially any family which is plugged in to a university and able to get media interviews, would not know that. Moms Demand Acton and Sandy Hook Promise are two groups that pop into my head without me even looking, and anyone with a professorship-- on the tenure track, no less-- would be able to do research; a 2 second search will yield this and other info, so you don't even have to be really good at finding it. Hell, March For Our Lives had a nationally televised rally in Washington DC. The Parkland survivors did a national tour registering youth voters and talking about preventing shootings, and they just got one of their own elected to Congress! This is not an issue that they can plausibly argue is devoid of support groups or activists.

[Chicago Redshirt]

19 minutes ago, possibilities said:

There are FAMOUS groups advocating for families like this one, and organizing on the policy issues the mother wanted to be active in. Any family with a child who was murdered like this, would know that, and the groups might even reach out to you. There's no way anyone, especially any family which is plugged in to a university and able to get media interviews, would not know that. Moms Demand Acton and Sandy Hook Promise are two groups that pop into my head without me even looking, and anyone with a professorship-- on the tenure track, no less-- would be able to do research; a 2 second search will yield this and other info, so you don't even have to be really good at finding it. Hell, March For Our Lives had a nationally televised rally in Washington DC. The Parkland survivors did a national tour registering youth voters and talking about preventing shootings, and they just got one of their own elected to Congress! This is not an issue that they can plausibly argue is devoid of support groups or activists.

In real life, no. In the contrived reality of the show, it's possible that there are not the corresponding groups. 

Part of my frustration with the show and this particular episode comes with the subtext of it:

1. Someone advocating against gun rights is going to be a selfish shrew who ignores her son's needs until it's too late.

2. The husband of the gun control advocate is a beta male/simp for letting her go on all these shows and paint a target on the family's back and a hypocrite for getting a gun, showing that it's reasonable to want a gun as self-defense.

[Spartan Girl]

11 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

 

37 minutes ago, possibilities said:

There are FAMOUS groups advocating for families like this one, and organizing on the policy issues the mother wanted to be active in. Any family with a child who was murdered like this, would know that, and the groups might even reach out to you. There's no way anyone, especially any family which is plugged in to a university and able to get media interviews, would not know that. Moms Demand Acton and Sandy Hook Promise are two groups that pop into my head without me even looking, and anyone with a professorship-- on the tenure track, no less-- would be able to do research; a 2 second search will yield this and other info, so you don't even have to be really good at finding it. Hell, March For Our Lives had a nationally televised rally in Washington DC. The Parkland survivors did a national tour registering youth voters and talking about preventing shootings, and they just got one of their own elected to Congress! This is not an issue that they can plausibly argue is devoid of support groups or activists.

Expand  

In real life, no. In the contrived reality of the show, it's possible that there are not the corresponding groups. 

Part of my frustration with the show and this particular episode comes with the subtext of it:

1. Someone advocating against gun rights is going to be a selfish shrew who ignores her son's needs until it's too late.

2. The husband of the gun control advocate is a beta male/simp for letting her go on all these shows and paint a target on the family's back and a hypocrite for getting a gun, showing that it's reasonable to want a gun as self-defense.

 

Agree. And I really hate that Eric basically blamed everything that happened on Laura speaking out. All that crap about how Laura “needed an enemy”? Like she was the one who was the problem and not Pdycho Bitch and her lemmings?!

If he was so concerned about Jonah, he could have taken him and left instead of buying a gun. And for all his talk, he kow-towed pretty quickly to Laura’s plan to cover for Jonah when he knew neither one of them were going to be able to heal.

[Starchild]

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

But it could just be the point raised in the episode that mass shootings are depressingly common now.

It was practically a throwaway line, but I was struck when one of the protesters implied that she believed it had to be a conspiracy because there's no way there can really be this many kids dying from school shootings.

I'm guessing the writers drew motivations for these protestors from real life research. Are there really people out there who hold this view? That this many deaths from school shootings is so unbelievable that it can't be believed?

And if they don't believe it, they won't fix it. So sad.

[DanaK]

4 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

The way the show was playing it, there was actually a mostly competent defense attorney for once and they were winning, but the prosecution was going to force Jonah to the stand to testify about the phone call that was made shortly before the killing. And somehow the defense attorney could not fight this. It's unclear if the defense attorney knew that Jonah was the actual shooter or not, and I'm under the impression that she was just defending the case on the "Joanna had it coming" angle.

I thought about that possibility too. The first shooting was also in Illinois and in the greater Chicagoland area. I think, though, that shooting had 7 dead and this one had 8. Could be remembering incorrectly. It would be interesting if there were interconnections. But it could just be the point raised in the episode that mass shootings are depressingly common now.

Seemed to me that the gun safe had a press-button combo lock. Jonah watched his father open it and was apparently able to remember the combination.

There's different levels of danger. I think the dad reasonably thought the danger was imminent, but not super imminent if that makes sense.

In fairness to the parents, they were already getting kicked out of one support group for victims of this shooting.

Howdy neighbor!

I think we have to accept that these shows are just slapping the names of whatever towns/courts they want. This episode's court, for instance, supposedly took place in federal court in Lake Forest. Well, as far as I know, there's just one federal courthouse in this part of Illinois and that's in downtown Chicago. The family in question lives in Lake Forest, but I think the school shooting this episode took place at Park Ridge High School. I might be wrong but I would assume someone from Lake Forest would go to school in Lake Forest (as far as a public school, anyway) and not in Park Ridge. 

I suppose Laura could say that she was on the floor when she shot Joanna, in a similar position to where Jonah was. They might not have bothered to test her hand for gunshot residue against the confession. I don't know if they did it would have come off as negative since she handled a freshly fired gun. And yes, if the cops did any real legwork, they should have been able to determine that Laura made calls to son's cell phone, where roughly Laura was when she made those calls, where son was where he received them. They would have to explain why there was an uber trip to Joanna's house right around the time of the murder, and there's the risk that the uber driver would remember, "Hey I took this kid to that house just before that lady was shot."

I’m not sure I understand why the prosecution would be trying to prove there was another shooter instead of Laura. That’s the type of issue the defense would raise

[BetyBee]

I don't presume to know what the mother of a murdered child would do, but I think the two worst things Laura did were:

1. Leaving her child who was begging her not to confront the crazy woman and doing just that, which made matters so much worse.

2. Taking the blame for her child who would have likely served no time, but who would have been better able to face the years ahead without pushing down his guilt.

It's fine to have a very pertinent story about the evils of guns and conspiracy theorists, but this was not a believable story. 

Also Margot Martindale was fantastic in this role. She portrayed a horrible person and did it well. 

[circumvent]

On 3/17/2023 at 12:32 PM, Chicago Redshirt said:

the prosecution was going to force Jonah to the stand to testify about the phone call that was made shortly before the killing

That part bothered me, the way they just ran through that so quickly. The kid was 14 years old. There are several issues with a kid that young taking the stand. It is not something that is done for the show of it. It is probably in chambers first, to make suer the kid has the maturity to understand the questioning, then a very protected setting if the kid ever really takes the stand. No audience, no show. I don't know if this is exactly how it happens, but it should be. Kids are not props for show trials, they shouldn't be and advocates should really fight that. 

[Madding crowd]

It seems like they are doing a lot of things for shock value and to get the viewers to be outraged rather than being realistic. They do have some good actors which is what keeps pulling me in.

[Simba122504]

On 3/15/2023 at 10:55 AM, kwnyc said:

Maybe I've watched too many tv shows, but wouldn't an autopsy have shown that the horrible woman was shot by someone from below? And would they have tested Joanna's hand for gunshot residue? (Or does her confession mean they don't have to?)

And wouldn't any real police work have turned up the holes in the story? Or the phone records/location shown that the son went to the house (not to mention the Uber records?) 

I know what they were going for, but they didn't get there.

Remember the formerly obese woman who took the fall for her niece's death?  But that was a totally different set of circumstances. She ended up getting her charges dropped,  losing a lot of weight and finally living life. The cases are nothing alike. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 3/17/2023 at 3:41 PM, DanaK said:

I’m not sure I understand why the prosecution would be trying to prove there was another shooter instead of Laura. That’s the type of issue the defense would raise

We of course don't really know what the prosecution might be thinking. We have the defense attorney's speculation that it's just a desperation act on their part. And of course, the real reason this plot point exists is contrived: so that Laura is willing to plead to murder 3.

In real life, it seems like it would be incredibly thin to call him as a rebuttal witness in general. And of course, Jonah could still plead the 5th Amendment and refuse to testify. or he could simply lie. What is the prosecution going to do if Jonah says "I don't remember what that 39 second phone call was about. I was too busy being traumatized by Joanna's conspiracy campaign."?

In fact, I think it beyond absurd that Laura would think it beyond the kid's capacity to tell some lies for the 10 minutes that he might have to testify to the point that she'd be willing to spend years in prison to avoid it. 

But to speculate from within the bounds of the story:

The prosecution is presumably under the impression that Laura committed a premeditated murder -- that she got fed up with Joanna's antics, got a gun, went to Joanna's house despite the restraining order, and gunned her down, and her story of self-defense is BS.

One way to try to prove that theory would be if Laura called Jonah and said something super-incriminating, like "I'm so tired of Joanna wrecking our lives. I'm going to end this once and for all. I'm going to make her pay for what she's done." 

It is also possible that the prosecution knows more than what it has let on that there was more than just Laura who was at the home and they think that there was a conspiracy involving Jonah as well. 

11 hours ago, circumvent said:

That part bothered me, the way they just ran through that so quickly. The kid was 14 years old. There are several issues with a kid that young taking the stand. It is not something that is done for the show of it. It is probably in chambers first, to make suer the kid has the maturity to understand the questioning, then a very protected setting if the kid ever really takes the stand. No audience, no show. I don't know if this is exactly how it happens, but it should be. Kids are not props for show trials, they shouldn't be and advocates should really fight that. 

I mean, your average 14-year-old is mature enough to answer basic questions about a phone call, assuming the prosecution is to be taken at face value. It'd be different if we were talking about someone who was like 5-8, maybe. 

I would assume if this were real life, the kid would get a guardian ad litem to represent his interest and that the show streamlined the hoops that would need to be gone through to make this happen, if a judge would approve of forcing a boy whose brother had been murdered, who had just been the victim of a sustained harassment campaign, and whose mother is on trial for murder to be a witness against his mother.

On an unrelated front, I went back to the pilot episode. Devin's school was Park Ridge High School, so it is the same one that is featured in this one. But the prosecutor in that one said that seven students were killed and grievously injured= a dozen others. Laura said that her son was gunned down "along with eight other children" And the newswoman interviewing her repeated that nine were killed. So it seems like they either screwed up the numbers between the pilot and this one, or two people who had been injured at the time of Scott's trial later died. 

[circumvent]

6 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I mean, your average 14-year-old is mature enough to answer basic questions about a phone call, assuming the prosecution is to be taken at face value. It'd be different if we were talking about someone who was like 5-8, maybe. 

Mature or not, there are two factors, as you pointed out: one, he is traumatized. Not only by this brother's death, but by the whole situation, the harassment, the shooting. Trauma is serious. He probably also feels guilty. Second, he is a minor and it is not - or should not be - a simple thing to subpoena a kid (I think the defense attorney said he was subpoenaed) to testify against their mother. The casual way the writers threw that in there is what bothered me. 

[tvfanatic13]

On 3/16/2023 at 5:03 PM, buckboard said:

Yes, and that's why Laura should have been in touch with other families who have been through that horrible situation.  No, not all litigated against their harrassers, but they could have provided Laura with support and some strategy, so she wasn't fighting her grief and the deniers alone.  

I mean, weren't they alone? When they held the meeting, only one other family showed up, and then they were kicked out of the grief group. Sounds pretty alone to me. 

[buckboard]

On 3/27/2023 at 10:10 AM, tvfanatic13 said:

I mean, weren't they alone? When they held the meeting, only one other family showed up, and then they were kicked out of the grief group. Sounds pretty alone to me. 

The point is that Laura and her family didn't have to be alone.  After every mass shooting, survivors of previous shootings rush to the aid of the latest victims.  There are dozens of survivors groups that have come to comfort the families and survivors because they have been through the same tragedy.  There are any number of organizations lobbying for gun control legislation.  Laura could have turned to them instead of trying to reinvent the wheel. and to get emotional support her family needed.

[Irate Panda]

Though I thought the ending was stupid, Margo Martindale is a phenomenal actress. She made the character SO unlikeable,  I really wanted to punch my tv screen!