S04.E10: The Death of Jonathan Moore

[moonshine71]

On 3/11/2023 at 11:52 AM, iMonrey said:

I thought the second half of the season was better than the first, but that's not saying much. The first half bored me to tears, it was a real struggle just to get through it. The new cast of characters just didn't grab me and the overall premise wasn't working for me. Joe is supposed to be the antagonist, the driving force, not the passive victim of someone who is messing with him.

The second half managed to correct that. And we got to see more of the old Joe. But the gimmick of Rhys talking to him wore thin and didn't really make sense anymore. I never understood why he zeroed in on Rhys as his alter ego or why he kept seeing him even after realizing he was just an hallucination. Why does he identify with Rhys?

There doesn't need to be another season. I don't need to see Joe get any kind of comeuppance. I'm fine with leaving him where he is now, I think it's in keeping with the theme that he gets away with it all.

To get into the lower area where the cage was you needed that key he had hidden inside the book. What wasn't realistic is that Nadia said she made a copy of it and put it back. That's like an old-fashioned skeleton key, I don't think you can just go to the local Ace Hardware and have a copy made like you can with a modern doorknob key.

How could they prove it though? 

How could they prove it? Victim testimony about Joe attacking them with a mallet when they tried to flee his house would hold up pretty well, imo. It would pass the reasonable doubt bar for me.

 

And, iirc, the stepson next door found and saved surveillance footage of Joe coming out of the back of the bakery and driving his step mother's car away. And his rich, tech-mogul sound like be would be chomping at the bit to take down Joe as an accessory in his wife's murder.

[JenE4]

That was pretty bad. Foremost, I cannot get over that they never told us what Joe told Phoebe after repeatedly mentioning it throughout this season—even the previous episode!! At the very least, it could have been in the little update montage, some literary quote that would have led Phoebe to decide to make a difference (with her move to Thailand and job w/ kids) but it would have also had a secondary, murdery meaning. I’m too tired to google, but Joe’s big on making murder sound heroic, so basically take any line from like 80% of his/Rhys’s voiceovers.

The other thing that I cannot get over is that Kate’s whole storyline was that she was estranged from her dad because she could not get over that he used murder, lies, and manipulation to keep his power/money. But she’s like no biggie that you did murder Joe—and now that I’m the one with the money/power, this bribing people to get our way is a pretty darn good idea after all. What. The. Fuck. I can buy Joe “becoming all Rhys all the time”—they are now one with his reflection. But there’s no reason for Kate to turn like that. Jesus. I’m almost surprised they didn’t have her look down into her mug and see her father’s reflection in the coffee. Or, I guess at the very least Kate somehow became exactly like Joe—and normally inexcusable behavior suddenly becomes completely excusable if you’re “changing the world.” Kate said “We’ll keep each other good”—but very quickly fell into accepting that good people can do bad things for the greater good. Joe did “bad things” to protect the women he loved. Kate will do bad things to protect the underprivileged around the world. Talk about a one-upper! Who will they need to kill to help expand Phoebe’s English program for Thai children? Tune in next season to find out!

Marianne I figured was faking being dead/drugged, just like she did when Joe dragged her there. But the Nadia twist, damn, that was particularly cold blooded! As a super sleuth, Nadia should know that being like a foot shorter than Joe the forensics would show that someone roughly the same height stabbed/slashed her boyfriend. If she did it, the slashes would have to go up. There was also no way for the Rhys “goodie box” to already be in her apartment, as she literally just saw it in HIS apartment 2 minutes ago and they don’t live in the same neighborhood. Unless he meant some other items? The mention of DNA on Rhys—were they implying that they were always going to frame Nadia so it was her DNA or just that they’d do something to destroy any of Joe’s DNA that was found? I didn’t quite get that.

Edited March 17, 2023 by JenE4

[Norma Desmond]

I was thinking about the post above that said that Joe died and only Rhys survived the drowning, and I think they're right. Joe wouldn't be so cool about murdering poor Eddie and framing Nadia. The last specks of decency in Joe would not allow him to hurt kids; he was always out to protect/save them, even if it meant consequences for him. The way he was just so ok with poor Eddie's and Nadia's faith are pure Rhys.

 

 

Edited March 17, 2023 by Norma Desmond

[dubbel zout]

There will be a fifth season; the question is whether it's the final season. I definitely think it should be. 

[Silver-hyren]

This season was not great.  I hated the entire “heroic” drowning scene, or anything around Joe acknowledging that he’s a bad person.  It requires a level of self-awareness that the show has been very clear that he does not have.  That lack of self-awareness is what made some of the darker humor work (thinking to the “Beck, you have a stalker!” moment of season 1).  When there was still a half hour left after he jumped off the bridge, I had a feeling he wasn’t really dead.

Regarding the Rhys stalker trophy box, I interpreted that scene as Joe telling Nadia that it *will* be found in her apartment, not that it (or anything else) was already there.  I think he killed Eddie, told Nadia his grand plan, then went and planted the box while she was sitting there traumatized on the sidewalk.

Is it bad I’m disappointed we never learned what Joe said to Phoebe that first night?

[SlovakPrincess]

Oh, this is painfully stupid.  Just so, so stupid.  

As in Season 1, Joe is pretty frickin' sloppy about what he's doing ... but gets away with everything because of the same two very implausible scenarios: person sees a woman locked in a cage and doesn't immediately tell someone (the kid who saw Beck in the bookstore basement; Nadia in this season); and person does nothing to help themselves while being set up for a murder they didn't commit (John Stamos character in the first season; Nadia this season).  Oh, and as in Season 2, once again a rich woman decides she loves Joe, and helps him cover his tracks.  🙄🙄🙄

I can see someone getting away with a years long string of crimes, but it's hardly satisfying for the viewer to watch this guy get away with murder and mayhem, especially when he only gets away with it because the plot dictates it in the most convoluted fashion.  Whatever message this show started out with - about the dangerous self-delusion of a stalker - has long gone by the wayside and now it seems to be actively cheering Joe on.  Bizarre.  

[BlueSkies]

A week later after finishing it the whole Rhys imaginary person thing was dumb.  And who put Joe in the handcuffs then with Raold.   Himself under the influence? 

 

P.S: Penn himself seems to agree with a lot of us here but it sounds like its not his call 

 

https://www.indiewire.com/2023/03/penn-badgley-wants-you-season-5-to-be-last-season-1234812666/

 

 

[Door County Cherry]

I think the tricky thing is that they don't have direction.  

I'm going to put this next part in spoiler tags to be safe but it is very very vague and really not much of a spoiler.  

Spoiler

The show followed a very loose outline provided by the books but now has gotten ahead of the books. It doesn't know how to wrap up because the books haven't wrapped up. 

If anyone wants to get more specific, we can discuss in the book/spoiler thread but I think it's why this show feels so aimless.

[SlovakPrincess]

3 minutes ago, LtKelley said:

Yeah, even without knowing he's a creepy stalker, I fail to see what's so appealing about Joe that multiple rich women who can pretty much take their pick are down for his nonsense. Particularly Kate who didn't seem to like him all that much. 

Agree that the show has gone past the books, will say more in the book thread.

I guess it's because they're also psychotic lol.  

But it's just so lazy ... "and then the rich lady fell in love with Joe and used her vast money and power to cover for him - and ... scene!"  

Like, yes, the rich and powerful can and do use money to get away with a lot in both US and UK, but there's a limit.  Epstein did eventually go down for his crimes, as did Harvey Weinstein.  An annoying little serial killer who leaves evidence and survivors and witnesses all over the place, and is not particularly powerful in his own right, is not evading capture for long just by throwing his wife's money at the problem.  

[Chaos Theory]

Haven't been on Netflix in awhile and realized part 2 dropped.  Someone needs to tell me these things.   Banged through the rest of the episodes in one Sunday night sitting and wow I don't know about anyone else (and I know I tend to have unpopular opinions alot) but I really loved part 2 even more then part 1 which had its issues but I enjoyed it.  I saw the Rhys is a figment of Joe's imagination coming a mile away but I don't care.  That to me only means it makes sense as a reveal.  That NotRhys was the darker part of his personality that Joe cut out so he could be Johnathan Moore..  So when Joe.Johnathan was trying to solve the murder of the "Eat The Rich Killer' he was actually trying to solve a murder he committed....which in retrospect actually makes a good whodunit.  

As for the Kate/Joe Pairing I like it almost as much and maybe more then the Joe/Love pairing (and hi there Love in Joe's imagination.) I thought the two of them worked as a final OTP if the show decides not to go into another season.   The place it ended with Kate and Joe on top of the world running Kate's father's empire works for me as an ending to a dark fantasy because that is what this is.  This has always been Joe's story....Joe's love story so I am ok with him not getting caught and him actually finding his ideal woman and being ok with himself because that was always his problem.  THINKING he was the good guy in the story and thinking the girl he was after just didn't understand him.  Which is why it didn't work with Love.    Joe realized that Kate did in fact love all the parts of him even his dark side all he had to do was accept that part of him and that part of her.  

As for Marienne I never really cared about her character so her living or dying didn't do anything for me.  But I did like see an episode from her point of view.   This is how it felt to be on the end of someone who had Joe's affection and didn't want it.  I think Phoebe was my favorite secondary character so I am glad she got a happy ending of sorts.    Nadia's ending was just tragic.  

 

 

 

 

[Chaos Theory]

Two more thoughts:  (wow I must really be late since there is no more traction on the site) 

1;  On any other show,  in any other thriller Nadia would in fact be the hero of the story bringing down the evil villain but the true tragedy of “You” is that this is in fact Joe's story and he is the one who gets the happy ending which means Nadia must fall.

 2:  Taylor Swifts "Anti-hero" is the perfect/cleverly meta song for “You” considering how many people STILL want Joe Goldberg to get his happy ending.   I so want a fan video with the song and Joe doing bad things with Reddit/Yahoo posts of people gushing over how cute Joe is.

[seacliffsal]

In a way, I feel like this show is focused on proving the ridiculousness of the 'women like bad boys' trope.  One hears the excuse for not liking someone as they are "too nice" so they go after the challenging person.  'Joe' shows the problem with assumptions-the women think Joe is a nice guy, but he isn't; women might also think he's a 'bad boy' and that he can be changed by 'true love' and he won't be changed.  I thought he looked/seemed particularly menacing this season-his intense silent staring was really emphasized yet people saw what they hoped/wanted to see in him in spite of red flags and warnings.  I also think he tends to be underestimated which is what Nadia did-she completely underestimated the danger she was in and that she willingly/unwittingly put her boyfriend in.

I know this is a bit rambling, but it just seems like characters see Joe more of a blank slate and they fill in what they want to see/what they want him to be. 

[PrincessPurrsALot]

On 3/13/2023 at 5:42 PM, Glade said:

Poor Eddie, got murdered and took the fall for the 'Eat The Rich' murders, while Nadia went to jail as his accomplice.  I'm glad that Marrienne got to be the final girl, surviving a full 2 seasons (and now that she's happily 'dead' with her daughter will hopefully retain that status), and that we finally left behind the lame trope of Joe having dissociative amnesia personified by an imaginary friend, which is overused in tv.  I'm hoping now we can get a final season that brings back Ellie, Paco, Nadia, Theo, Joe's mother and half brother, and more characters from previous seasons to properly close this out.  Joe is now richer and more powerful than the Quinn's and Theo's dad, so it seems more likely that someone Joe would naively trust (i.e. Ellie and Paco who I imagine he might turn into his projects/proteges now that he can shower them with money) that could be the one to kill him and/or allow the killer to get close enough. 

I agree that dissociative amnesia is so overused.  That really annoyed me. It also continues the media idea that people with mental illnesses are dangerous, which does real harm to people who need help.  

Joe's teflon has become so thick it seems like there is no way he can ever be caught.  The idea of him being able to come back after being presumed dead and not held responsible for any actions he has ever taken is hard to swallow.  At the same time, the whole show requires suspension of disbelief.

Kate ended up being a truly horrible person.  I do think she used her power to convince others to kill for her.  From Joe's final voiceover, she now has her personal hitman.  Joe seems to no longer care if people "deserve killing"; he just enjoys it.

I enjoyed the second half of the season more than the first half, even if I saw this as the weakest season.  I didn't care about the people.  I didn't even really care about Nadia.  I found her annoying and not very bright. It's one thing to enjoy and want to write mysteries.  There is nothing wrong with that.  It's another to assume that real life would always work like a mystery.  

At the same time, there are enough people obsessed with murderers that Joe's little book store could be popular.  However, he'd better be prepared to also sell lower priced books if he wants to pretend to earn money.  Then again, maybe the book store is only an excuse to have a place for his cage of many wonders.

[BaskingsharkGTX]

That was... stupid. Bits of it were OK though. So now Joe and Kate are Succession with serial killers?

Announced today that You is now coming back for a final 5th season. One thing I did like about this was how they managed to give Joe a bit of growth/self-acceptance. Not sure whether he SHOULD self-accept given that he's, y'know, a serial killer who murdered a ton of people mind you, but it was technically good writing (in among lots of unbelievable stupidity). Anyhoo, I'd have been fine with leaving him here but we'll see what S5 brings. 

Love to know how Marienne explained her long absence to her friend and her daughter.

ETA;

Oh and speaking of Marienne, since I presume Nadia's trial and imprisonment was major news, how exactly is she all chill back in Paris given that she owes Nadia's hare-brained scheme her life & freedom? 

Edited March 26, 2023 by BaskingsharkGTX

[Athena]

I was really hoping this would be the last episode. I would have been glad for Joe to die for good.

This show is so over the top and stupid sometimes that I expect it every season. I actually liked this season relative to the others because of the setting and the cast. I have a soft spot for Charlotte Ritchie who played Kate. She's the complete opposite of her character in every way. I prefer Kate over the other main love interests even though most of them were terrible too. I'll be sad when Joe kills her next season because I feel like I'll probably be dragged in until the end. I also liked Greg Kinnear and found it a  disappointing he was not there more and Joe killed him so easily. I thought he'd be more of a fight because was an Illuminati level billionaire.

I'm mostly indifferent on the Fight Club reveal. At least Joe was able to act opposite another person instead of so many scenes of him just thinking or spying. There was plenty of that too but less so this season. I hope the actors had a good time with it.

I hated all the framing with Nadia and killing Eddie. Joe is a hypocrite who did screw over kids but the frame job made him just plain evil. The killings feel senseless at this point.

I am glad Phoebe and Marienne got away but this season had only two good people get away. It's become too nihilistic.

Here's hoping the next is the last season and it's a short one.

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, Athena said:

Here's hoping the next is the last season and it's a short one.

It's already been announced that it will be the last, thankfully!

[BaskingsharkGTX]

AND ANOTHER THING...

So Joe dumped Marienne's body in the park and tried to make it look like an OD. An OD'ing woman in the park is still going to make the news. Did he (or Kate's operatives who wiped the internet, paid off the sheriff, blah, blah, blah and are now responsible for maintaining Jote's new image) not check the papers to make sure the body had been found and the authorities weren't investigating anything to do with this mysterious woman's death? And what if Marienne continues her art/book illustrating career and finds any sort of fame? Surely Joe would notice that?! ESPECIALLY since Kate is doing all sorts of art things in the art world!

This show is dumb. There are episodes of Paw Patrol that are more believable.

[seacliffsal]

Seeing Marianne with her daughter in Paris after her escape seems to indicate that Marianne is not the sharpest tool in the shed.  Why she would not have immediately gone elsewhere is mind-boggling.  Sure, Paris was her dream (and they did live there for a while), but it is possible to have dreams elsewhere.  She was never my favorite character but I am glad she escaped, but, come on-use some common sense (and yes, I do know what show we're watching...).

[BaskingsharkGTX]

On 4/3/2023 at 12:59 AM, LtKelley said:

Since she wasn't dead and Nadia found her and helped her escape to France, there was never a mysterious dead woman in the park to investigate. Joe tells Kate's operatives he left a dead woman in the park. They find no reports. No authorities investigating a mysterious death. Problem solved. 

Thing is, the lack of any reports would (or should) trigger Joe's/Kate's suspicions. A dead body found in a park in London would definitely trigger news reports. London is a crime-ridden cesspool these days but it's not SO bad that that wouldn't warrant some headlines lol. No reports at all should mean they'd dig further. 

 

On 4/3/2023 at 12:59 AM, LtKelley said:

Still, Marienne is in France and Kate will be in NYC and book illustrating is a much different beast than fine art gallery showings.

Didn't Marienne also sell paintings though? IIRC, Joe bought (or at least found) an actual painting by her on sale in the art market in episode 1 and that was how he realised she was nearby.

 

20 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

Seeing Marianne with her daughter in Paris after her escape seems to indicate that Marianne is not the sharpest tool in the shed.  Why she would not have immediately gone elsewhere is mind-boggling.  

Especially given that when she and Nadia had their horrible convoluted conversation about why Nadia should really, really, really not call the police because no matter what, even though calling the Police would have been the most obvious thing to do and Eddie would still be alive and Nadia not in jail if they had done so, Marienne's reasoning was that Joe would FIND HER NO MATTER WHAT!

I think the show itself murdered common sense a loooooooong time ago! Can't even blame that on Joe!

Edited April 4, 2023 by BaskingsharkGTX

[30 Helens]

I just watched the entire season in a 2-day binge. I think this was the best way to do it, because watching it quickly, with no time for reflection, allows for glossing over plot holes that might otherwise bug (as they clearly did for many of you). 

I applaud those who saw the Rhys alter ego reveal before it happened, because I certainly didn’t. Until the moment when Rhys locked Joe in the dungeon, I was unimpressed with the season. Same old rich, annoying people who aren’t worth rooting for, and these particular rich people were the worst yet. Same old love interest in Kate, who was perhaps the most boring of all the love interests. But the Rhys twist renewed my interest. How would Joe react to having an unwanted partner? Would this be a variation of the Jimmy Smits season of Dexter, or would this be Joe’s downfall? At least something new was happening. 

And then when the show went all Fight Club on us, I was really hooked. (Although I admit, I was among those who thought Evil Twin for a hot minute.) I especially enjoyed the episode that showed Marianne’s perspective: Even though we are well aware that Joe is a serial murderer, not to be empathized with, the series has tried its best to present him as a tortured antihero. Poor Joe, misunderstood, trying his best to be a decent person but circumstances get in the way, blah blah. But through Marianne’s eyes, You finally showed Joe for the unadulterated sick, selfish fuck that he is. I imagine Penn Badgely was pleased with this turn.

I’m not sure how to think about the ending. On one hand, I would have been happy to see Joe die. On the other hand, I think that would have been too easy of an out. He deserves to be outsmarted, and to pay the actual price for his deeds. I think it’s possible that Kate may be his eventual undoing. She presents as a lamb who has suffered under Daddy’s thumb, but there is reason to suspect she’s not that innocent. Just like Joe justified his killings and invented a persona to blame them on, Kate dodged her own role in causing the death of many children, and who knows what else. I think Kate may have her own Tyler Durden complex, and now that she can’t blame everything on Daddy, who knows what she’ll be capable of.

I am glad that Marianne got a happy ending with her daughter, and I don’t feel the need to nitpick the particulars of that. She survived, she’s free, and I don’t think we need to see her again. I would like to see Nadia get her revenge, though. She was the most rootable of this season’s characters (aside from maybe Phoebe), and I would like her to prevail somehow. 

I assume the show will end with season 5, and I think that’s good. It doesn’t need to overstay its welcome like Dexter. (Lumberjack Joe, anyone?) I know a lot of people think You is already well past its Use By date, but I think something interesting started with this season. Joe is starting to unravel. He is showing how little control he has over his actions, and how unreliable a narrator he is. Prior to this season, he has had a largely sympathetic edit. I hope that in the final season, he will get the full Monster edit, something that Dexter never had. Only then he can get his comeuppance in a way that is truly satisfying. 

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

I assume the show will end with season 5, and I think that’s good. 

Yep, it's been announced that it'll be the last season.

[Scarlett45]

Is it just me, or does it feel as if this season was written by a different group of writers?

 

Seasons 1-3 had some great secondary characters, humor, Joe having some great people to interact with. Season 4 got off to such a slow start and I didn’t like any of the secondary characters. The twist that Rhys was not motivating Joe, it was all Joe was cool, but the season can’t just rest on that. I did like Nadia but I felt we didn’t know much about HER as a person. Her acting was superb as Joe put the knife in her hand and framed her for Rhys/her boyfriend’s murder. 

I am theorizing that Marianne is getting ready to leave Paris it just took a while for her to get her funds together.

Joe heading back to NYC with the same haircut/no facial hair was a “full circle” as I assume he will turn on Kate next. 
 

Random- I noticed a change in costuming for Kate- she was in that bright red suit against all that grey glue in the background, we have never seen her wear bright colors like that before. She’s very different than Love, but I would imagine she could take Joe down. 

[Athena]

On 4/8/2023 at 4:34 PM, Scarlett45 said:

I know. Let’s worry about Joe stalking you after you are out of the glass box. That really suspended my disbelief that Nadia went along with that (Marianne might be weak and dehydrated and terrified so I give her more of a pass on that one). 

It's a stretch (like this whole show) but Nadia not going to police is in line with her own background to figure things and be obsessive in her own way. She had her own plans and I think she thought she could outsmart Joe. She was the one who taught him murder mystery 101. He did seem clueless before she helped him. What he did to Nadia and Eddie is one of the worse things Joe has ever done and before they tried to make him redeemable by saving kids, here he murders one and wrongly imprisons another. He can't come back from that.

On 4/8/2023 at 6:31 AM, 30 Helens said:

I just watched the entire season in a 2-day binge. I think this was the best way to do it, because watching it quickly, with no time for reflection, allows for glossing over plot holes that might otherwise bug (as they clearly did for many of you).

...

I’m not sure how to think about the ending. On one hand, I would have been happy to see Joe die. On the other hand, I think that would have been too easy of an out. He deserves to be outsmarted, and to pay the actual price for his deeds. I think it’s possible that Kate may be his eventual undoing. She presents as a lamb who has suffered under Daddy’s thumb, but there is reason to suspect she’s not that innocent. Just like Joe justified his killings and invented a persona to blame them on, Kate dodged her own role in causing the death of many children, and who knows what else. I think Kate may have her own Tyler Durden complex, and now that she can’t blame everything on Daddy, who knows what she’ll be capable of.

I am glad that Marianne got a happy ending with her daughter, and I don’t feel the need to nitpick the particulars of that. She survived, she’s free, and I don’t think we need to see her again. I would like to see Nadia get her revenge, though. She was the most rootable of this season’s characters (aside from maybe Phoebe), and I would like her to prevail somehow. 

I assume the show will end with season 5, and I think that’s good. It doesn’t need to overstay its welcome like Dexter. (Lumberjack Joe, anyone?) I know a lot of people think You is already well past its Use By date, but I think something interesting started with this season. Joe is starting to unravel. He is showing how little control he has over his actions, and how unreliable a narrator he is. Prior to this season, he has had a largely sympathetic edit. I hope that in the final season, he will get the full Monster edit, something that Dexter never had. Only then he can get his comeuppance in a way that is truly satisfying. 

I also binged this season in 2 days. I wouldn't be entertained as much if I watched it in small doses. I agree that they did something different in this season which is why I like the cast and location more. I think this show peaked awhile back and has been dragging. I would have been more satisfied if this was S3 rather than S4.

I agree that I don't want to see Marianne back and Joe deserves to be taken down. It's the only way this show could end satisfactorily. At the end of ever season, Joe's romantic victims mock him in his head but he doesn't get his come uppance. I agree Nadia or Kate are likely candidates. I like Kate because of Charlotte Ritchie and she has the markings of a sociopath as well. She's more stable than Love Quinn but Joe outsmarted her too. Joe has too much plot armor. Looking forward to the end.

At least Penn Badgley has made a career resurgence from this show and I hope he plays against type in the future.

[Hedgehog2022]

I was disappointed by Season Four. He escalated to psychotic frenzy serial killer and never got caught despite a plethora of security cameras all over London and elsewhere. Missed the Joe that had a lot of one liners and dark humor. 

[Avaleigh]

On 3/13/2023 at 8:59 AM, MaggieG said:

I'm going to need Marianne to team up with Jenna Ortega's character (forgot her name) to bust Nadia out of jail and take Joe down once and for all. I understand he framed Nadia and he also mentioned that Nadia hasn't said a word in prison but if it's really, thoroughly investigated by the authorities, why would Nadia want to kill Rhys? They didn't know each other, what would her motive be?

This is what I'm hoping for. I want Joe to be taken down by the women who managed to survive getting entangled with him. His rebound from the first season. (I can't remember her name but she knew that something was off with Joe wrt Candace.) Jenna Ortega's character. The woman who was one half of the Caged Crazy Couple. Phoebe. Marienne and Nadia. I want them all to team up and make Joe pay. Initially I wanted someone to keep him in a cage, but then I realized he'd probably be okay with that. He just needs to go to prison. Death is too quick for him. Prison is the one thing he seems desperate to avoid, so it's probably the most appropriate punishment. 

I definitely want someone to rescue Nadia but I'm still upset with her character for not calling the damn police when she had multiple opportunities. More people are probably going to die because Marienne and Nadia decided they shouldn't call the police. 

[methodwriter85]

29 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

I can't remember her name but she knew that something was off with Joe wrt Candace

Her name was Karen, I believe. Joe broke up with her and she got herself the hell out of there with as little drama as possible.

[seacliffsal]

2 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

 

I definitely want someone to rescue Nadia but I'm still upset with her character for not calling the damn police when she had multiple opportunities. More people are probably going to die because Marienne and Nadia decided they shouldn't call the police. 

Don't forget that the young man who was helping Nadia died, Kate's father, Rhys' character, etc. all after Nadia found Marianne in the box (and probably others that I'm forgetting).  I think Nadia is very responsible for these deaths, although obviously not as responsible as Joe.  Even her arrest would not have happened if she had just called the police.

[Verovee]

Who does Kate think killed her friends? The stalker? And then does she think Nadia killer her boyfriend because Nadia found out (or thinks) her bf killed Rhys? It’s very convoluted. We know that Kate knew her father had Joe kill Rhys right? And she dealt with the dna on Rhys. So then she must know that Eddie didn’t kill Rhys. I don’t know if Nadia was in prison for killing Eddie or Eddie and Rhys. And I don’t know if the stalker lady was still on the hook for the rich friends- Malcom and Gemma and the artist. (But wow was Gemma horrid). 
It was very unclear just how much Kate knows and is covering up. I hate if she helped with the Nadia frame job. And it’s very out of character w how they presented Kate up until the last scene with the reporter. 
also if I were Nadia I would have run/hid and thrown the knife in the Thames. Without her holding the bloody knife what evidence was there?

[sugarbaker design]

Wow, this was awful.  When next season airs, I'll wait til the whole season airs, read a recap of the final episode.  I'll only watch if Joe dies a prolonged, excruciatingly painful death at the hands of his victims and/or their families.