All Episodes Discussion

[walnutqueen]

1 hour ago, JD5166 said:

Here I sit in my deceased mom’s chair watching ID at this moment! ❤️❤️❤️❤️

Heh.  I've been snuggling under or beside my dead Mum's blanket for over a year ... ;-)

[Ohmo]

7 hours ago, PsychoKlown said:

http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/crime/2014/03/15/parents-squabble-over-auto-shop-murder-victims-estate/6466699/

I found this article about Joey's will.

Jackals.

I wouldn't put forgery past Mickie.  At all.  She was disgusting.  Honestly made it difficult to watch the episode because I disliked her that much.

I think Josh was intentionally chosen for this case, and I think it was a great choice.   He's a little "rougher" than Andrea, Keith, or Dennis and kind of called out some of Mickie's crap.

[biakbiak]

I can normally take or leave Josh but when talking about Joey having a gun because it was deer season and he added "it was also stupid season," cracked me up. 

[sinycalone]

RE:  Favorite Son

Thinking back over the police effort....I was impressed that the detectives persevered through all the family's charges and repellent behavior (Russian Mafia, Kelly or  third partner possibly killing Joey, etc.).  They did investigate each possibility, obviously realizing some of the "suspects" were unlikely from the start, but dutifully pursuing each.  The lead detective appeared to suspect Chris from the get go -- his immediately trying to smear Joey while pretending to like him -- but had to investigate every possible lead.  Joey was hardly admirable (I think Olga was a little enamored with material goods, but hardly evil) -- but victims are not always likable people, of course.  The detectives, in this case, were dealing a gang of nasty people -- and not just the actual murderers.

[atlantaloves]

I'm with you guys, I hated that Mother with the white hot heat of the sun. She was NASTY. 

[ari333]

The guy shot in his sleep eppy... I suspected Katrina from her first interview with LE. IDK why exactly, but something seemed off.

[Ohmo]

On 12/9/2017 at 7:28 AM, JudyObscure said:

I kind of hate jewelry. 

I'd also add make-up to this.  I find it a waste of time similar to jewelry, and it can cost a bunch of money if you really get into it.  For those for whom make-up and jewelry really scratch that itch, fantastic.  Just not my thing.  I look at jewelry and make-up and think things like "Someone could pay rent, insurance, tuition, mortgage, etc. with that money instead."

Edited December 10, 2017 by Ohmo

[Guest]

On ‎12‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 7:28 AM, JudyObscure said:

I kind of hate jewelry.  So much value placed on little rocks.  

How many deaths on shows like Dateline have been caused by the little rocks?

I'm not a fan because I am a full-blown germaphobe.  I do not apologize for it but please don't expect me to shake your hand or bump my fist.  No.  I can also say I haven't had a cold in over four years because of my vigilance. 

I zero in on those "chefs" who are dripping in jewelry.  The germs that are hidden underneath and ON the rings and bracelets.  Gives me hives thinking about it.

But, back on topic.  I dashed a quick text to my niece asking her to fill me in.  She 's at a holiday gathering now but did tell me that Olga was always beautifully dressed with lots of jewelry.   Very nice too.  She said she'd tell me more when she saw me.

That will be in two weeks.  I'll take good notes.

[sinycalone]

On 12/10/2017 at 11:24 AM, sinycalone said:

nbd

Edited December 12, 2017 by sinycalone

[applecrisp]

1 hour ago, PsychoKlown said:

How many deaths on shows like Dateline have been caused by the little rocks?

I'm not a fan because I am a full-blown germaphobe.  I do not apologize for it but please don't expect me to shake your hand or bump my fist.  No.  I can also say I haven't had a cold in over four years because of my vigilance. 

I zero in on those "chefs" who are dripping in jewelry.  The germs that are hidden underneath and ON the rings and bracelets.  Gives me hives thinking about it.

But, back on topic.  I dashed a quick text to my niece asking her to fill me in.  She 's at a holiday gathering now but did tell me that Olga was always beautifully dressed with lots of jewelry.   Very nice too.  She said she'd tell me more when she saw me.

That will be in two weeks.  I'll take good notes.

Never really thought about that. I did know fake nails are bad.  Make-up for me is a little boost but use a few items.

My sister who i am really mad at right now really wanted my Mom's ring when she died. We drew straws basically(I have 8 siblings).  My pick was before her so I picked a doll. Sometimes I regret that not so much about the ring, the doll is just creepy.  I don't get fighting over stuff like that.

My family is dysfunctional for sure but I see some families and wonder-is it worth it. It was sad to me. How would you like her as a mom.  Guess I was lucky.

[12catcrazy]

Could somebody fill in a little about the will?  For some reason I can't access the story about it.

And yeah, Mickey Mom was a narcisstic asshole.  My bet is she played her kids against each other since they were children and then enjoyed the drama when they fought/hated each other as adults.

[nora1992]

Micki was about the worst mother I have seen on a true crime show - omitting the mothers who killed their own children, of course.  She stole a ring from her daughter, plotted with her son to fool that daughter, and then pointed the police in her daughter's direction when her son was shot?  And then the remaining brother just washes his hands of it, leaving his sister to take all the blame?  Everyone was blaming the daughter for something that HER MOTHER AND BROTHER SET IN MOTION!  Both mother and son should have been in prison for theft - does that merit grand larceny?  What kind of a jerk has the bright idea of trying to fool his sister with cubic zirconia?  The actual murderer was a depraved and selfish individual, but I have never seen a mother disregard the well-being of one child for the convenience of another in such a selfish way before.  Jewelry can be bought on layaway!  He could have made payments to his sister if he wanted that ring so bad, but instead, mother and son treated the daughter like an inconvenient afterthought.  That woman is a piece of work.  And she thinks she did nothing wrong.  I thank God she is not my mother, and that my mother is nothing like her.  All the sympathy I have in this case goes to the daughter.

[biakbiak]

2 hours ago, nora1992 said:

Jewelry can be bought on layaway!  He could have made payments to his sister if he wanted that ring so bad, but instead, mother and son treated the daughter like an inconvenient afterthought. 

I wonder if they even asked her about buying it from her, I doubt it. I am most surprised that the mother ever gave it to her daughter in the first place.

It's hard but the daughter is better off without having a relationship with anyone in her family, her brother and his wife seemed liked assholes as well.

[partofme]

This was one episode where I had no sympathy for the victims.  Joey, Olga and Mickey were all horrible people.  I felt so bad for Kelly and was glad she was cleared.

[ari333]

How was Olga horrible? I may have missed some bits. TIA

[Enigma X]

I am totally down with believing favorite son, mom, and killer are horrible. I don't know enough about Olga to say that though. Still, it was not ok for murderer to kill favorite son and Olga even if they were horrible.

[biakbiak]

16 minutes ago, ari333 said:

How was Olga horrible? I may have missed some bits. TIA

While most likely not as horrible as mother and son, she knew about him stealing the diamonds for her ring and didnt return them, that makes her shady in my opinion. Again, neither should be murdered but I am not buying the sainthood story the horrible mother was peddling.

[ari333]

25 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

While most likely not as horrible as mother and son, she knew about him stealing the diamonds for her ring and didnt return them, that makes her shady in my opinion. Again, neither should be murdered but I am not buying the sainthood story the horrible mother was peddling.

Well, that blows if Olga knew the stones came from her sister-in-law's ring.  (and the SIL did not give it to her) I didn't know that part.

[biakbiak]

Just now, ari333 said:

Well, that blows if Olga knew the stones came from her sister-in-law's ring.  (and the SIL did not give it to her) I didn't know that part.

Yes, it was stated that Kelly texted her about it when she found out and it was when they were off on their destination wedding which further pissed her brother off.

[Enigma X]

34 minutes ago, ari333 said:

Well, that blows if Olga knew the stones came from her sister-in-law's ring.  (and the SIL did not give it to her) I didn't know that part.

I am not buying the sainthood story either, but I can also see someone being too meek to disturb the flow of such an obnoxious family. I am not saying it is right. I am just saying though.

[biakbiak]

11 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

but I can also see someone being too meek to disturb the flow of such an obnoxious family.

But she did more than just go with the flowm she asjed for a restraining order against the sister before the robbery which was denied. She also apparently had a dispute with her ex husband over some of her jewelry. 

[pigs-in-space]

I don't know, it seemed to me like they couldn't find anyone who could say anything worse about Olga than "she liked nice clothes and jewelry" and "she got upset at her sister-in-law for (possibly) trying to start drama on her wedding day."

I don't think it was cool of the sister to do that, and wondered why she was not at the wedding (was she not invited after the ring fiasco, or could she not afford to go?).  But beyond that one piece of info, she seemed the sanest of the family.  

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, pigs-in-space said:

don't think it was cool of the sister to do that, and wondered why she was not at the wedding (was she not invited after the ring fiasco, or could she not afford to go?).  But beyond that one piece of info, she seemed the sanest of the family.  

I dont think anyone was at the wedding, i think they had a destination wedding/honeymoon alone. The brother mentioned that they found out about the text messages when Joey and Olga returned. I would actually want to know if my fiance had stolen my ring from his sister before I married him and that seemed to be when Kelly found out. 

[nora1992]

17 hours ago, pigs-in-space said:

I don't know, it seemed to me like they couldn't find anyone who could say anything worse about Olga than "she liked nice clothes and jewelry" and "she got upset at her sister-in-law for (possibly) trying to start drama on her wedding day."

I don't think it was cool of the sister to do that, and wondered why she was not at the wedding (was she not invited after the ring fiasco, or could she not afford to go?).  But beyond that one piece of info, she seemed the sanest of the family.  

The drama started well before the wedding day.  Pointing out that the man you're about to marry had to steal the ring he gave you is not creating drama - just alerting you to that.  I'd want to know if the man I was about to marry was that much of a a**.  If he could do that to the sister who adored him, how would he treat me down the road?  And I couldn't wear the ring, knowing how it was obtained.  I've always thought that the sentiment behind the wedding had to be real; the jewelry doesn't.  Like earlier posts mentioned, the destination wedding wasn't cheap - so why steal from your sister? 

It has been a recurring theme after some episodes where people have pointed out that every victim is the most wonderful, most thoughtful, most special person you'd ever meet.  I think this episode breaks that pattern. 

[Rowan]

That Mother. Whew. What a piece of work.

I know what obvious favoritism from a parent can breed amongst siblings. It creates jealousy and resentment then entitlement and contempt. I've seen firsthand how the children become caught up material possessions as a way to cement their place in the hierarchy. The dysfunction that mother created is disgusting. 

I finished the show and I thought back to the older brother telling Josh about how Joey told him that if he's ever murdered it was Kelly who probably did it. Man. They probably thrived on the hate filled drama. 

Kelly better thank her lucky stars the detective in this case actually waded through all that and committed to finding the actual murderer. I was actually waiting for the whole I knew the sister was the culprit because she didn't cry just the right amount we usually get.

[Mama No Life]

Interestingly enough, Josh said on Twitter that he really liked the mom.

[tobeannounced]

1 hour ago, Mama No Life said:

Interestingly enough, Josh said on Twitter that he really liked the mom.

That does not surprise me! I felt like there was a little flirtatious vibe between them during the whole interview.

 

One thing I wonder about is if Mickey really loved Olga as much as she said she did. I just feel like moms like that who worship one son are also the type that would think no woman was good enough for him.

Edited December 12, 2017 by tobeannounced

[ari333]

Why give the ring to the daughter just to take it back? Why not save it for favorite son? Fav son coudl have bought one btw. And I think mom just wanted fav son to crank out a grandchild and Olga was needed for that task.

Edited December 12, 2017 by ari333

[biakbiak]

22 minutes ago, ari333 said:

Why give the ring to the daughter just to take it back? Why not save it for favorite son? Fav son coudl have bought one btw. And I think mom just wanted fav son to crank out a grandchild and Olga was needed for that task.

Ot completely would not surprise me if she gave it to her when her favorie son went to prison.

[The Closer]

My guess is at the time Mickey gave her daughter the ring, her favorite son wasn't at a place where he was considering marrying anyone so he had no use for it or interest in it. Once Joey had a woman he wanted to marry (and one that Mickey adored to boot), all that changed. That's why the mother regretted ever giving the ring to her daughter. 

Also, it doesn't make any sense that it was ever about the ability for Joey to purchase a ring. They talked about how Joey and Olga were spending lots of money and how he bought Olga an expensive car and they were only married for about 1/3 of a year so it's not like the spending spree came years later after they built a life together. The issue was never that Joey couldn't afford to get Olga such a nice ring. The issue was that there was this nice ring that the mother regretted giving to her less beloved child. In Mickey's world, the daughter could have the ring as long as Joey had no use for it, but the moment he did, that ring needed to be taken back. 

[Vivigirl10]

“Under the Desert Sky”: Toni’s parents were the perfect example of why murderers parents should not be interviewed and are completely useless contributors. “My angel of perfection daughter could NEVER do such a thing. She was only driven to it by the big, bad, boyfriend!”  If she was in an abusive relationship and felt her life was in danger (and you are confirming that you knew that), tell me why oh why would you allow the abuser to live with you in your home??? And get engaged to your high school aged daughter???  

I think Toni and Kody were equally guilty and I agree with Mickie's Mom that they will never provide the reason why they did it. Toni was obviously no innocent who was taken along for the ride. Mickie's sisters confirmed it with their own first hand accounts of Toni’s behavior towards Mickie. I also can’t help but think that a devote Morman (as Toni was painted to be) would rather risk sacrificing her own life then to kill another with her own hands in such a God awful manner. 

Hey Keith.....referring to Toni even once as a “beauty queen” was five million times too many.

Can we talk hairstyles? Glad Toni was given the opportunity to put so much effort into her tv debut with her fancy braid/bun combo. And her Mother’s initial Jerry curl and subsequent shocked-porcupine cut at the end were just stunningly beautiful. Gack!!!

Edited December 16, 2017 by Kiki620

[biakbiak]

I really want to know why Kody's lawyer stopped the plea hearing and apparently convinced him to reject it.

[thejuicer]

I could not believe Toni's father at the end boo hoo "I'll probably never see her again when she's out of jail". Michaela was MURDERED. By your daughter. Michaela will definitely never ever get to see any of her loved ones again. Sorry I don't feel an iota of sympathy for you.

[ari333]

When I saw the first shown photo of Toni  - even before I knew anything about her - I got a chill. I didn't know why, but CHILL.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Hey Keith.....referring to Toni even once as a “beauty queen” was five million times too many

Honestly - were there no other contestants that year? 

Quote

When I saw the first shown photo of Toni  - even before I knew anything about her - I got a chill. I didn't know why, but CHILL.

Dead behind the eyes. 

There wasn't much to this story. It was pretty clear from the start who did it and why.

[cooksdelight]

3 hours ago, Kiki620 said:

Under the Desert Sky”: Toni’s parents were the perfect example of why murderers parents should not be interviewed and are completely useless contributors. “My angel of perfection daughter could NEVER do such a thing. She was only driven to it by the big, bad, boyfriend!”  If she was in an abusive relationship and felt her life was in danger (and you are confirming that you knew that), tell me why oh why would you allow the abuser to live with you in your home??? And get engaged to your high school aged daughter???  

The way they kept talking over each other, I could see this being the norm at home. And Toni felt invisible. Well, she showed them, didn’t she? I don’t understand why he lived with them, why he was engaged to her... she was put into a birdcage by her two nutty parents and it went from there.

Here’s what left me wondering.... Kody’s first confession didn’t match the murder wounds. Then Toni comes forward, says “we did it together” emphasizing the wounds that Kody left out. Then, Kody wants a trial, why didn’t he implicate Toni??? He never once turned back on her and said “She did most of it!”

I think there’s still more we don’t know.

[walnutqueen]

Toni (she, of the unfortunate countenance) was clearly the driving force behind this despicable plot.  I also believe she inflicted the worst of the wounds upon her hapless victim.  Her parents were the lyinglest liars ever :  we gave him a home, he had a future, we loved him; he was a controlling asshole who beat & abused our darling daughter & she was afraid of him.  Pick a lane, you sorry excuses for parents.  Then go fuck yourselves in the middle of that lane.

 

3 hours ago, Kiki620 said:

I also can’t help but think that a devote Morman (as Toni was painted to be) would rather risk sacrificing her own life then to kill another with her own hands in such a God awful manner. 

Devout Mormons can take their place amongst the most murderous of murderers.  True crime shows have taught me that much.  The nearer to Godliness, the nearer to murder, I always say.  '-)

[ari333]

I am trying hard not to type something really shallow and mean about that Fratto family.. But I am so thinking it. 

ANd if Toni was a beauty queen, who the hell else was in the competition? 

And her fiance abused her; the parents knew it; so the parents invite him to live in their home. How desperate were they to get her married off? Jesus.

She took four aspirin. Not 40.

[walnutqueen]

2 minutes ago, ari333 said:

ANd if Toni was a beauty queen, who the hell else was in the competition? 

Somebody who got hit even harder with the fugly stick?  Just how small WAS that town?

I know, straight to Hell.  My handbasket has been decorated for decades, but it comes with a fully stocked bar.

[ari333]

3 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

Somebody who got hit even harder with the fugly stick?  Just how small WAS that town?

I know, straight to Hell.  My handbasket has been decorated for decades, but it comes with a fully stocked bar.

Move over, lady. I want to sit beside you in your handbasket.  I'll bring lemonade and cookies :-)

I knew it was that Toni chick when they described how Mickey's face was  destroyed. 

[ari333]

The whole Fratto family gave me the willies 

What confused me (unless I missed something) was why did Kody protect that Toni in the beginning? Was she that much of a prize? I just dont get it.

They said that they did not or could not recover the texts? WHY?

ANd why was Kody in the car with Micki in the first place? I was doing laundry and apparently missed something.

[ari333]

And if I heard "Jr Miss beauty queen" one more time I was going to throw sah-um. Talk about ugly on the inside..

But hey, Micki was athletic, popular and cute. She had to DIE.

Edited December 16, 2017 by ari333

[LGGirl]

I felt bad for Micki’s family.  They really seemed to be nice tight knit family.  

Toni did it.  Evil walking.  Her parents are in true denial.  And the cops dropped the ball. She should be in there for life. 

[ari333]

HOw did Kody get life without parole and she gets out at age 36? WHAT?

[Whimsy]

1 hour ago, ari333 said:

HOw did Kody get life without parole and she gets out at age 36? WHAT?

That’s the problem with plea deals. 

 

You cannot convince me that Toni wasn’t the driving force behind Mickie’s death. She was jealous because Mickie was prettier and more popular. Why Kody agreed to go along with it and then protected her the whole time, I don’t know.

[cooksdelight]

1 hour ago, ari333 said:

ANd if Toni was a beauty queen, who the hell else was in the competition? 

It was a dog beauty contest, for canines. Sorry, save me a seat on that bus.

 

1 hour ago, ari333 said:

They said that they did not or could not recover the texts? WHY?

I don’t get that either. They found all of the calls made. Again, cops dropping the ball, I think.

 

1 hour ago, ari333 said:

ANd why was Kody in the car with Micki in the first place?

He borrowed the car from a woman he was supposedly having an affair with. WTF???  Toni didn’t want her along for the ride?

I don’t know who’s idea it was at first, but they both willingly killed that girl and they both should be in prison for life with no parole.

[thejuicer]

57 minutes ago, ari333 said:

HOw did Kody get life without parole and she gets out at age 36? WHAT?

Kody seems like he rides the short bus, if you know what I mean.

[Ohmo]

1 hour ago, ari333 said:

HOw did Kody get life without parole and she gets out at age 36? WHAT?

I streamed this episode online because I thought there would be some sort of update.  Dateline has done this story before.  I remember parts of the episode.  But alas, no update, like maybe they figured out Toni was lying through her teeth and voided the deal.  I totally believe she was the mastermind behind this...because as others have said, I think Kody's got some intellectual challenges.  I also think there's a decent possibility that the reason that Kody put his hands on Toni at school was that he was trying to get her to quit all of the crap with Mickie.  Not that Kody doesn't deserve to be jailed.  He does, but I don't think he's the cunning and devious one here.

[Ohmo]

3 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

I think there’s still more we don’t know.

Honestly, I think in Kody's mind, he's protecting Toni.  I genuinely believe that's why he's not talking.  The two of them were engaged to be married, and I truly think his cognitive skills are low, and there's a very good chance that she did most or all of the crime or it was done at her direction.  He participated, but she instigated.

I also bet that her first confession might have been because she blew it.  I think she thought she was safe talking to Kody's lawyer because it was a lawyer.  She only started throwing him under the bus after that.  By then, I think she realized that she had screwed herself in a misguided attempt to aid Kody's defense.

[walnutqueen]

I've no doubt that devious duplicitous little twunt set the dynamite and lit the fuse.  

Deserving of an asterisk on my kill-if-I'm-dying list