All Episodes Discussion

[ari333]

This is all so tragic

But I have questions. Why make out in  the car? Why not go IN the apt? the kids are there? But arent' they asleep? I don't get it. AND WHY NOT WALK HER TO THE DOOR? We don't know that would have saved her, but sheesh....

[ari333]

Maybe there will be a couple of male guards she can sweet talk into bringing her cookies and brownies, and some escape tools in raw hamburger?

OMG! You beat me to it! :)

[Cabarb]

 

Town size means nothing. It's just courtesy to see that your friend gets inside and turns on a light. I do it always, never with a thought that a murderer is waiting for him/her, it's just so I know that person got inside okay w/o tripping, passing out, having a heart attack and dying on the steps ... anything. It's like asking a friend to call when he/she gets home after leaving your house and driving at night on an icy road. Keeping track of people you care about means you care about them.

 

Agreed!! I also live in a small town but it doesn't matter who my passenger is or how old they are - I NEVER pull out of their driveway until they are safely inside their home, door closed and a light on.  I don't think we can really make the leap that Brad is necessarily at fault for the death (although in my mind, his conduct was certainly detrimental to her safety).  I know that if Marty had planned to kill her, he probably would have just carried that plan out another day or another night, but I cannot help but think that if Brad had just taken 45 extra seconds to walk her to the door or even just wait until she was safely inside her closed up house, then she wouldn't have died. . .that night, anyway.

[ari333]

I know he could have killed her another night or even maybe gotten in after Brad left (if he left) and killed her that night, but we don't know. THe killer may have been in a mood. The mood may have passed later or by the next day. IDK. I just wish she had been walked to the door. At least then I could say Brad did his best or what is the least a person (male) can do (for a woman he is dropping off at home) to be courteous.

[torqy]

As I progressed thru the episode, I felt like something was off about the girlfriend. Can't really pin it down; maybe because she didn't see (or didn't want to see) David's dark side. Would have liked to hear from the first husband.

As many have said, an excellent episode and one of a few that actually warranted two hours.

[biakbiak]

As I progressed thru the episode, I felt like something was off about the girlfriend. Can't really pin it down; maybe because she didn't see (or didn't want to see) David's dark side. Would have liked to hear from the first husband.

As many have said, an excellent episode and one of a few that actually warranted two hours.

Why would she see his dark side? They hung out at a bar and occasionally slept together after closing time and texted.

[gaPeach]

Why would she see his dark side? They hung out at a bar and occasionally slept together after closing time and texted.

 

I agree. Not enough time together to know or see anything dark about him.  And even if they had more of a relationship instead of just hooking up (where I assume there was very little talking going on) she might not have seen his dark side.  People can hide all kinds of crazy with no one the wiser.  Look at most serial killers.  A lot of them were very likable and no one close to them had a clue they were raping, killing and hiding bodies in the basement in their spare time.

[biakbiak]

Given the lifestyle that the victim and Brad seemed to be living, I doubt that either of them were sober enough to make responsible decisions.

[cooksdelight]

Quote

The shooting death of an FBI agent's wife found in the kitchen of her family's Virginia home is investigated. Included: an interview with the victim's husband. Dennis Murphy reports.

[ari333]

If Brad thought himself ok to drive then he was ok to walk her to the door imo.

[cooksdelight]

As soon as they started interviewing the husband with an hour left, I knew he'd gotten away with murder. I do believe he killed his wife because his young girlfriend dumped his controlling ass.

If only Julie had stayed away from him. Four shots into the chest isn't anything but flat out murder.

[Ohmo]

But the aunt and grandma stressed over two hours that Marya couldn't handle her mother's death. I got the impression that the whole family feels it was a suicide. If they felt it was an accident, they wouldn't blame her father for her death - which they clearly did.

 

I just watched this one.  I agree that the family heavily, heavily implied that Marya committed suicide.  Her grandmother said that this was the day before graduation, and Marya had mentioned that her mother was not going to be there to see her graduate.  Then her grandfather said that Marya always wore her seatbelt, but she wasn't wearing it that day?  There was also the mention earlier in the episode that Marya had been the one to seek out information about Marty.  Perhaps the fact that she did that and then Marty kills her mother was too much for Marya to handle.  She was only 18.  It could have been an accident, but I also think suicide is extremely plausible.

 

Honestly, I didn't feel that sorry for Susie.  My sadness was reserved for her parents, her sister, her sister-in-law, Rusty, and Marya.  There's still so much visible anguish, even with Marty in prison.  Such anguish cost Rusty his life, and I do think it might have cost Marya hers as well.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Ohmo

[Irritable]

As much as I do think he got away with murder, I'm sickened to also agree with his acquittal, because I felt that the defense actually did a good job of presenting reasonable doubt.  I agree, there was no reason to shoot her 4 times in "self defense" - she hadn't even hurt him, and he had surely been trained to protect himself from an attack in more ways than just "if you feel askeered, shoot to kill immediately!". 

 

The things that made me wonder were that he said the police had been called to their house for a disturbance before, and she was cuffed.  Working for the FBI, he wouldn't have mentioned that in the interview if it hadn't happened, because he would know it's all too easy to verify or disprove.  And her dad said she didn't have a problem with alcohol, but it would be very easy for him not to know she had developed one if she wanted to hide it from him.  The husband's family seemed to believe she did have an issue, and if she spent time in a rehab facility, that means something.  Also, when they separated he was given full custody of their sons, and she was the one who moved into an apartment.  That's not the way these things normally go unless there is some kind of big risk with the mother.  By no means am I saying she deserved what happened, but that would be enough for me as a jury member to have to face that it's possible she did try to attack him with a knife and he panicked.  We don't know what she was really doing in the house, if she was intoxicated (funny, they didn't mention blood alcohol content from her autopsy, did they?), if she had found the other woman's panties in the hamper, etc.  But he sure did lie about giving her CPR, he was clean as a whistle!  And what a creep he was about the much younger woman.  Mid-life crises really make some people act like crazy assholes.  I don't like him one bit, but I'm not 100% convinced.  Only about 90%.

 

Weird, they didn't even mention whether or not there was an insurance policy that could have been a possible motive.

[Lizzing]

ITA that there were important details left out, like if the cops did cuff Julie a few months prior to her death, what did the police report say?  Was she really in rehab for drinking, or was she away for something else (i.e., depression, other health issue)?  Did her body show signs of alcohol abuse (liver function, bone density?) beyond a regular BAC test?  Depending on the details, the 4 shots to center mass to subdue an average sized woman may have made more sense.  Otherwise, I can't figure out why he shot her 4 times.  I know cops are trained to shoot center mass, so I get that part (and hitting extremities would be more difficult in a split second), but 4 shots?  She wasn't Andre the Giant on PCP.

 

And, since this was really a one hour case drug out for two hours, these details could have been explored.

[walnutqueen]

I believe he shot her after she went down.  I believe he could have disarmed her (IF she was even armed in the first place) without using such deadly force.  I believe he faked and lied about doing CPR.  For me, the nail in his coffin was using his own son as a stand in for the kid's dead mother in the sick re-enactment pic.  Who DOES that? 

 

No surprise that yet another law enforcement officer got away with killing his wife.  I think he got away with manslaughter, at the very least.  The judge "had no choice" but to let him off on the reasonable doubt, but she didn't seem particularly happy about it.  Neither was I.

 

All this talk about her alcoholism and depression (mostly from his sister - who got way too much screen time, IMHO) and not a single mention of her BAC or anti-depressant drugs in her autopsy ... guess it wasn't a factor, then?

Edited October 3, 2015 by walnutqueen

[applecrisp]

Yeah, the 4 shots got me.  I think it is more reasonable for a person with no police training to shoot 4 times because of adrenaline, while you'd think an officer of the law and highly trained would show more restraint.

 

I think he got away with it.

[Mannahatta]

I believe they did mention that there was no alcohol in her system at the time of her death. 

 

The defense's premise that he was trained to stand his ground so therefore he had to shoot her sickens me. I mean it was obvious from the layout of the kitchen that he had a number of ways to move away from her. It wasn't like he was trapped in a tiny room with one exit (like my kitchen). Yet somehow we're supposed to believe that - manly and/or scared FBI agent that he was - he was above the option of running away.

 

There were so many things that didn't add up: his superficial wounds, the lack of blood on the knife, the gunshot residue on the knife, his claims that he gave her CPR. The defense explained them away but - at least from the way the show presented it - I wasn't convinced. Another thing that irked me was the whiny little boy voice he used during his interview. Plus he never expressed any remorse. It was as if he were the victim. Yep, I think he got away with murder.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Mannahatta

[ari333]

My first thought was why on earth would a female attack a male with a knife if the man has a gun strapped to him, always carried the gun and that was a known fact and he is trained to use it? That was a red flag for me right there.

Second, any coroner, I'd think, could look at her liver and blood for alcohol use that was chronic use/abuse.

And if someone had to, HAD TO, shoot a spouse, -- four times seems excessive like, as mentioned, flat out murder.

[JudyObscure]

On top of all that -- why did such a  pretty young girl ever have an affair with him and why in the world did she go over for a quickie, evidently while the boys were out, and then put her little sexy panties in the family laundry?  Doesn't she know she was supposed to go home with those slung over her arm?

[ridethemaverick]

Ugh, I hate this guy. I guess there was reasonable doubt so the system worked but I really think he did it. He was pissed at his gf and since he was a coward, he shot his wife instead of the other guy who was his actual competition (not that anyone should have been shot but you kwim). How creepy was that photo he took? He was probably hoping the other guy would stumble across it while snooping like he did. Passive aggressive asshole.

[saber5055]

Okay, so I was watching Shark Tank at the same time as I was watching this, then I fell asleep before the end, so I missed a lot of details of the case, and came here to find out he was "not guilty." I'm glad I was flipping to ST because I only had to see 10 minutes of this show to realize I don't need any of the details. The bottom line is, a big FBI agent man with a gun strapped on his hip sees his wife coming at him with a knife and he freaking has to SHOOT her FOUR freaking TIMES? Oh, please. He couldn't have just shoved her away or twisted her around and grabbed her from behind, or grabbed her arm or something? If he HAS to shoot, because he's a manly man and all, shoot her once, in the kneecap. Or, even better, pull your gun out and say, "Get back, b*tch, or I'll shoot." No, this guy killed her outright and killed her on purpose. There was no knife attack. There was no CPR. There was just one lying liar who murdered his wife.

 

WTH is up with the jurors and the judge that they let him off. Other than once again law enforcement gets to do whatever they want to whomever they please, just like all the cops all across the United States can shoot and kill whomever they want, even if it's just a guy standing on a street minding his own business.

Edited October 3, 2015 by saber5055

[JudyObscure]

He couldn't have just shoved her away or twisted her around and grabbed her from behind, or grabbed her arm or something?

I was telling my husband about the show and he said, "Are you kidding me?" and immediately demonstrated all three of those things, easily and without thinking about it.   

[ridethemaverick]

Apparently his training prohibited him from thinking of any alternative tactics. I guess law enforcement folks are robots who shoot to kill in any and all circumstances in which they "fear for their lives", common sense be damned.

[cooksdelight]

I just didn't buy his story of having to shoot her four times in the chest. That's overkill.

[ChristmasJones]

The lack of blood on his hands and white shirt was a big detail for me that I would have a hard time overlooking in terms of it showing that he was lying.

 

I think he did get away with murder.

[RCharter]

 Also, when they separated he was given full custody of their sons, and she was the one who moved into an apartment.  That's not the way these things normally go unless there is some kind of big risk with the mother.

 

I'm only about half an hour in, and I'm really wondering about that too.  They were in a pretty conservative state, so I would think that even if there isn't an official law or legal position that most of the time the mother would get custody and stay in the home.  It sounds like he was the one who has the "career" so she could be more involved with the kids and that her teller job at the bank wasn't all that serious.  So if she was the primary caretaker, it seems odd for the court to grant the father full custody.  Especially when the father has a job that might require him to be called out at all hours of the night (even as a trainer, you might have to assist or be called upon to help in some other way).  

[torqy]

I agree. Not enough time together to know or see anything dark about him.  And even if they had more of a relationship instead of just hooking up (where I assume there was very little talking going on) she might not have seen his dark side.  People can hide all kinds of crazy with no one the wiser.  Look at most serial killers.  A lot of them were very likable and no one close to them had a clue they were raping, killing and hiding bodies in the basement in their spare time.

 

 

Why would she see his dark side? They hung out at a bar and occasionally slept together after closing time and texted.

I see the point. The guy was a psychopath, and they are very good at appearing normal (cf: Ted Bundy)

[JudyObscure]

 It's possible she didn't fight for custody at all but just let his custody be written into the  dissolution.   If the boys wanted to stay in the big house with their father, or she was going into rehab right then, or if a tiny apartment was all she could afford on her bank teller salary, I can see him bullying her into thinking it was the best thing for the boys.

[cooksdelight]

It's possible she didn't fight for custody at all but just let his custody be written into the  dissolution.   If the boys wanted to stay in the big house with their father, or she was going into rehab right then, or if a tiny apartment was all she could afford on her bank teller salary, I can see him bullying her into thinking it was the best thing for the boys.

I bet that is most likely what happened. Big, badass FBI agent goes before a judge, he's got the more expensive attorney, and could bully her. The facts point to murder..... girlfriend ditching him, no blood on his hands or clothes, 4 shots (one hitting her when she was already down), and him faking giving her CPR. I hope he never gets another poor woman in his clutches.

[RCharter]

 It's possible she didn't fight for custody at all but just let his custody be written into the  dissolution.   If the boys wanted to stay in the big house with their father, or she was going into rehab right then, or if a tiny apartment was all she could afford on her bank teller salary, I can see him bullying her into thinking it was the best thing for the boys.

Perhaps, but it sounds like he never wanted her to have a serious job outside the home so she could raise the boys.  I would have thought the judge would have given her the house and the kids if she was the primary caretaker.  It sounds like they fought quite a bit, so I'm not sure if she is the type to get bullied -- but that makes sense too.

[applecrisp]

Apparently his training prohibited him from thinking of any alternative tactics. I guess law enforcement folks are robots who shoot to kill in any and all circumstances in which they "fear for their lives", common sense be damned.

That would explain a lot.  There have been many unarmed people shot by law enforcement.   Many were black.  Sad.

[JudyObscure]

You know, I supported myself and my son on a bank teller's salary for many years with no help at all from my ex-husband.  I had to concentrate every minute of every day, because even a slight mistake means being out of balance at the end of the day and job endangerment.  It never occurred to me that it wasn't a serious job.

[saber5055]

That there were kids or custody or girlfriends/boyfriends on the side has nothing at all to do with the fact the guy said his wife came at him with a knife and he shot her four freaking times. THAT'S the case, nothing else applies at all. Having custody or non-custody of kids or having an affair/girlfriends/boyfriends on the side doesn't entitle one to shoot a spouse four times. And if the wife was so crazy that she needed medication or whatever, the husband would be the first to know this and should have been aware she might try to stab him. (Which I  am positive she did not.) Therefore, he should have been even MORE aware and cautious and not have to freaking shoot four times. There are ways to take down an attacker without emptying a clip into that person. But then I guess you'd have to be a trained FBI agent to know that.

 

Oh ... yeah ... right.

[damalanop]

Apparently his training prohibited him from thinking of any alternative tactics. I guess law enforcement folks are robots who shoot to kill in any and all circumstances in which they "fear for their lives", common sense be damned.

I guess so, which is scary. I just can't reconcile how this guy with all his FBI training couldn't find some other way to "defend" himself. Like everyone else has said, 4 shots is excessive! Makes me wonder exactly what evidence was or was not presented in court. And Art must have been a helluva convincing witness on the stand (I tuned out before the end) to convince a judge and juries that he killed in self-defense.

I feel awful for those kids and Julie's family. Art can go kick rocks.

[tobeannounced]

I guess I'm at a table for one here.  I am very troubled by the fact that his ex was in the house, his house, without calling first.  If the roles were reversed, I don't think most people would say it would have been okay for an ex-husband to enter a former wife's house and wait for her to get home without asking permission or giving a heads up, "Hey, I'm here."  I also think there's some history here with him having custody, rehab. There's enough for reasonable doubt for me.

 

Also, there's seems to be some gender stereotyping here.  'He's a a big, strong FBI agent.  Why was he scared of the little woman?  'Fear for his life,'  yeah, right."  I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you attack someone, you don't get to complain about their response.  They might overreact.  Too effin' bad.

Edited October 5, 2015 by tobeannounced

[saber5055]

I guess I'm at a table for one here.  I am very troubled by the fact that his ex was in the house, his house, without calling first.  If the roles were reversed, I don't think most people would say it would have been okay for an ex-husband to enter a former wife's house and wait for her to get home without asking permission or giving a heads up, "Hey, I'm here."

 

 

He said they were having a discussion about the divorce and what not, so it wasn't like he did not know she was there and she surprised him by jumping out from behind the door with a knife raised to stab him dead. THEN I could understand how a knee-jerk reaction caused him to pull his gun and shoot. But there was no surprise, and he could have asked her to leave or go outside or anything, but he did not. HE SAID they were talking, then he walked down the kitchen and sort of turned his back on her, then saw her coming at him with the knife. So whether she was there by invitation or not has nothing to do with the fact he shot her dead. Four times.

 

Actually, his story would have been better and more believable if he had staged that, the jump out from behind the door, instead of the fakety fake scene he did set up.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you attack someone, you don't get to complain about their response.  They might overreact.  Too effin' bad.

 

 

The key here is, "if you attack someone." I am one who highly doubts he was ever attacked or even threatened in any way. So there's that.

Edited October 5, 2015 by saber5055

[glowlights]

On top of all that -- why did such a  pretty young girl ever have an affair with him and why in the world did she go over for a quickie, evidently while the boys were out, and then put her little sexy panties in the family laundry?  Doesn't she know she was supposed to go home with those slung over her arm?

 

Pardon me while I climb into this handbasket....

 

 

I guess I'm at a table for one here.  I am very troubled by the fact that his ex was in the house, his house, without calling first.  If the roles were reversed, I don't think most people would say it would have been okay for an ex-husband to enter a former wife's house and wait for her to get home without asking permission or giving a heads up, "Hey, I'm here."  I also think there's some history here with him having custody, rehab. There's enough for reasonable doubt for me.

Also, there's seems to be some gender stereotyping here.  'He's a a big, strong FBI agent.  Why was he scared of the little woman?  'Fear for his life,'  yeah, right."  I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you attack someone, you don't get to complain about their response.  They might overreact.  Too effin' bad.

 

I agree he had a right to defend himself if she came at him with the knife (or came at him at all), and also agree that it doesn't matter if she was a woman. Where I disagree is that not only was he a trained agent, he trained other agents, which means in my mind he is held to a higher standard when it comes to knowing how to react with an appropriate level of force and also how to defuse a situation. I read one article where the defense said the fact that he didn't empty all sixteen rounds into her proved he was using restraint. Yeesh. The first or second shot would have slowed her assault, which is all he needed in order to get away. The FBI rule of "stand your ground and take out the assailant" should apply to being attacked on the job, not during arguments at home for god's sake.

 

And apparently lying to the 911 operator about giving CPR (with that dumbass excuse that he was never really taught CPR - with his job? c'mon) suggest to me that whichever of them started the altercation, he intentionally made sure it was finished once and for all.

 

I was intrigued that agents who worked with him in New Mexico said he had a bad reputation when it came to the truth. :/

Edited October 5, 2015 by glowlights

[psychoticstate]

I only watched the first hour because I seriously cannot take these 2 hour Dateline episodes but this guy is lying liar who lies.   

 

Is there any proof that Julie showed up there uninvited?  I'm thinking he planned this crap and invited her over under the pretext of something to do with the boys. 

 

As others have said, four shots is excessive.  Four shots to the chest and likely at least one of them when she was already down. One shot to the chest would likely take her down and make her a zero threat.  Was he afraid she was going to throw the knife at him as he ran out the door?  

 

Don't believe he performed CPR for a minute.  With four bullet wounds to her chest, he should have had her blood on his hands and maybe even on his knees if he was kneeling over her (assuming that her blood was pooling on the floor.) 

 

If this had been me, shooting a home intruder four times to the chest, I think there would be questions.  Because, again, how many shots to neutralize the person?  But because this guy is FBI, I think he got away with it.

 

Note to self:  never sneak up on or scare my family member that's a cop.  Per this guy's theory, my family member, as a trained law enforcement officer, would have every right to cap me four times in the chest.

 

On top of all that -- why did such a  pretty young girl ever have an affair with him and why in the world did she go over for a quickie, evidently while the boys were out, and then put her little sexy panties in the family laundry?  Doesn't she know she was supposed to go home with those slung over her arm?

 

 

Seriously. Dead.  Funniest thing ever.

[ari333]

This episode made me sick. He murdered that woman and got away with it imo bc he is an FBI agent.

Okay, so I was watching Shark Tank at the same time as I was watching this, then I fell asleep before the end, so I missed a lot of details of the case, and came here to find out he was "not guilty." I'm glad I was flipping to ST because I only had to see 10 minutes of this show to realize I don't need any of the details. The bottom line is, a big FBI agent man with a gun strapped on his hip sees his wife coming at him with a knife and he freaking has to SHOOT her FOUR freaking TIMES? Oh, please. He couldn't have just shoved her away or twisted her around and grabbed her from behind, or grabbed her arm or something? If he HAS to shoot, because he's a manly man and all, shoot her once, in the kneecap. Or, even better, pull your gun out and say, "Get back, b*tch, or I'll shoot." No, this guy killed her outright and killed her on purpose. There was no knife attack. There was no CPR. There was just one lying liar who murdered his wife.

 

WTH is up with the jurors and the judge that they let him off. Other than once again law enforcement gets to do whatever they want to whomever they please, just like all the cops all across the United States can shoot and kill whomever they want, even if it's just a guy standing on a street minding his own business.

 

THIS!!! ^^^^ times ten!

[cooksdelight]

If their divorce wasn't final, in Virginia the law is that if both names are on the deed (as in most cases), she has every right to enter the house whenever she wants. I lived in Virginia when I was divorcing my ex, and he changed the code on the alarm system. I called my attorney, who called his, who informed him of this. I needed to come by during the day when he was at work and get my things from time to time. This woman may have been doing the same thing, or perhaps fixing food for her sons to eat later.

[ari333]

If their divorce wasn't final, in Virginia the law is that if both names are on the deed (as in most cases), she has every right to enter the house whenever she wants. I lived in Virginia when I was divorcing my ex, and he changed the code on the alarm system. I called my attorney, who called his, who informed him of this. I needed to come by during the day when he was at work and get my things from time to time. This woman may have been doing the same thing, or perhaps fixing food for her sons to eat later.

 

YES. Or he baited her and straight up invited her there.... we cant know... bc she is dead. If so, I wish she had mentioned it to someone but then it'd be their word against his holiness.

[tobeannounced]

He said they were having a discussion about the divorce and what not, so it wasn't like he did not know she was there and she surprised him by jumping out from behind the door with a knife raised to stab him dead. THEN I could understand how a knee-jerk reaction caused him to pull his gun and shoot. But there was no surprise, and he could have asked her to leave or go outside or anything, but he did not. HE SAID they were talking, then he walked down the kitchen and sort of turned his back on her, then saw her coming at him with the knife. So whether she was there by invitation or not has nothing to do with the fact he shot her dead. Four times.

 

Actually, his story would have been better and more believable if he had staged that, the jump out from behind the door, instead of the fakety fake scene he did set up.

The key here is, "if you attack someone." I am one who highly doubts he was ever attacked or even threatened in any way. So there's that.

 

My point wasn't that she jumped out and surprised him.  My point was that it would go to her state of mind for me.  He said she was supposed to let him know before she entered the house.  She didn't.  That is reasonable doubt for me that maybe she was there with ill intent.  Or maybe not even ill intent but went nuts about the new girlfriend and him saying it was over.  I have no idea what happened there, and neither does anybody else. It's all wild speculation; therefore, not guilty. The state didn't prove its case.

[saber5055]

I have no idea what happened there, and neither does anybody else. It's all wild speculation; therefore, not guilty.

 

 

You neglect to mention that the FBI killer guy DID say what happened. They were talking in the kitchen, he walked down along the counter away from her, then he said he saw her coming at him with a knife. If she was there "with ill intent," she would have attacked him right off, like by jumping out from behind the door, like I posted earlier.

 

But, of course, if you believe the woman came at the man with a knife after having some discussion, that means you would have to believe a lying liar who lies, so I do agree with you ... NO ONE KNOWS what happened because the lying liar who lies FBI guy was lying. Of course no one believes him. Not even any posters here! The quote pasted above says what the FBI guy said is "wild speculation"! So we are all in agreement about that. He's a lying liar who murdered his wife. Period.

 

As for an FBI trainer to not know CPR, I call BS on that. We routinely had CPR classes not only in college but in every workplace I've ever worked. I even have a Red Cross card saying I completed CPR classes. And I'm in an office environment and have absolutely no association with criminals or people who might need CPR on a regular basis in my line of work. In other words, I am NOT an FBI agent.

[tobeannounced]

You neglect to mention that the FBI killer guy DID say what happened. They were talking in the kitchen, he walked down along the counter away from her, then he said he saw her coming at him with a knife. If she was there "with ill intent," she would have attacked him right off, like by jumping out from behind the door, like I posted earlier.

 

But, of course, if you believe the woman came at the man with a knife after having some discussion, that means you would have to believe a lying liar who lies, so I do agree with you ... NO ONE KNOWS what happened because the lying liar who lies FBI guy was lying. Of course no one believes him. Not even any posters here! The quote pasted above says what the FBI guy said is "wild speculation"! So we are all in agreement about that. He's a lying liar who murdered his wife. Period.

 

As for an FBI trainer to not know CPR, I call BS on that. We routinely had CPR classes not only in college but in every workplace I've ever worked. I even have a Red Cross card saying I completed CPR classes. And I'm in an office environment and have absolutely no association with criminals or people who might need CPR on a regular basis in my line of work. In other words, I am NOT an FBI agent.

 

Well, I guess someone believed there was reasonable doubt because the guy got through three trials without being convicted.  If I'm not mistaken, I can post my opinion whether it lines up with what every other poster thinks or not.

[cooksdelight]

Yes, everyone can post their opinion here. And don't speak for the entire group, and let's not let it get too personal. Stick to what happened on the show, and post with respect. Thanks!

[JudyObscure]

Another thing was that he saw her car in the driveway.  So at least we know she wasn't sneaking around.

 

He did say that she was talking about getting back together and he told her, no way in Hell was that happening -- and then she went off (according to him.)

 

Why was she there, expecting to reunite?  That leads credence to the idea that he had called her and suggested it.  Did the police check her phone records?

 

 Or:  She was drunk, delusional and in the, "If I can't have you, no one can," mood. If it's the second then, again, we're back to just how dangerous is a drunk little woman with a knife?  How easy it would have been to out run her.

 

Speaking of the knife, the judge said how lethal it looked, but wasn't that a boning knife?  They're dangerous to  dead chickens, but that curved blade wouldn't be very useful in a stabbing motion, would it?

 

I agree with   tobeannounced  that too many women think it's okay for them to flail out at men with fists and knives and not expect any violence in return.  I hate seeing women do this to me in movies, etc. and it shows up in lots of domestic abuse cases that the woman struck the first blow.  Even so, it's part of the definition of self-defense that while it's legal to return violence it should be "in kind," and not "he threw a rock so I shot him," sort of thing.

 

So:  She had a reputation for domestic abuse, but he had a reputation for lying.  She had a boning knife, (maybe), he had a gun.  She wanted to reunite, he wanted his girlfriend back.  She's dead with four gunshot wounds, he's alive with some scratches.  I hope this week's show isn't so worrying.

[gaPeach]

I don't think he planned to kill her or even set it up.  I think he was an asshole and over reacted or maybe in that split second before pulling the trigger he figured it was a way to get rid of her once and for all.

 

There was so much that was not explained, as usual for Dateline, about why she did not have custody of kids.  That is a big deal for a woman, who the courts normally lean towards in custody of children, did not have kids or the martial home.  Did she drink?  I don't know, its sounded like it but her family or dad insisted she didn't but then why was she in rehab at one time?  Some said at times she was a little bit off or not acting normal.  There is so much more to this story and maybe that is why two juries could not convict him of murder.  And as the judge noted the defense did bring reasonable doubt as to if he murdered her or was it self defense even if it was overkill.  

 

He was an asshole who appears to have gotten away with murder.

[saber5055]

There was so much that was not explained, as usual for Dateline,

 

 

I agree with this, I always come away from these shows with so many questions. The only one I didn't was the Montana girlfriend murder, where the ex-boyfriend killer drove off the road and sort of got "busted" that way. Otherwise, it seems the typical Dateline two hours is a lot of filler and duplicate information, with other things left unsaid. Maybe they have to be careful about swaying viewers too much one way or the other, or opposing-side people get ranking on each other. 

 

Someone besides Keith was doing the interviewing of the killer at the end, right? I remember wishing Keith and his stink eye were there instead.

[Cara]

I can answer some questions that have been raised in the thread.

Julie did have a documented drinking problem. She had been to rehab. Art also had videos of her drunk and acting aggressively on multiple occasions. They were shown in court. But toxicology reports show she was sober on the day she died.

She had come to the house that day to pick up some summer clothes.

Art was paying her $2000 a month in spousal support as was mandated in a separation agreement.

The girlfriend married the other agent she was seeing.

Here is a list of articles about the case from the local paper. Click on related items near the bottom of the page.

http://www.fredericksburg.com/news/local/stafford/nbc-airs-show-on-gonzales-case-interviews-stafford-juror/article_bbccf694-9ab1-5423-9643-649c7a5bc0a4.html#.VhR4SKSvrDI.twitter

Edited October 7, 2015 by Cara

[cooksdelight]

For the first time, 27 of Bill Cosby's accusers joined together in the same room for an exclusive group interview to share their harrowing - and many strikingly similar - stories. "The Cosby Accusers Speak" Airs on NBC's Dateline Friday October 9th at 9/8c.