All Episodes Discussion

[Ohmo]

12 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

What I didn't understand was, where was Charlie's mother through both his first trial and his second? He had his friends there supporting him, but where was she? I don't understand why she wasn't charged with anything. It seems obvious to me that Charlie did what he did (assuming he is even the one who shot his father) because his mother called him at school and asked him to come home. It seems to me that he was protecting her, and that she was using him. 

Yes.  The prosecution made this big deal about there being another side to Charlie---a different side than what he showed everyone.  The prosecution made serious efforts to prove that point, yet there appeared to be no effort to dig deep into the mother.  That's what I most have a problem with.

As to the "you can't just kill someone" yes, but you also have to look at the entire scenario.  His mother was in that house with him.  By all accounts, she went to Canada with him and came back with him, and all we keep hearing is that there's evidence that specifically points to Charlie and only Charlie.  Really?  If so, we never saw it.

Even in the sentencing for the federal gun charge, the prosecutor kept saying that Charlie was admitting guilt without saying it.  What he said was that he made a series of immature mistakes, which could just as easily be interpreted as being foolish enough to go along with his mother on this plan.

I have a problem with him being in prison and her not because it seems like the prosecution dug into the person who they felt like digging into and completely gave the other one a total pass.  His defense team brought up the obvious point.  "Show us proof that the mother WASN'T involved."

If you're going to work at it to file the federal gun charges, why was there no similar attempt to dig to try and prove the mother's involvement?  We heard nothing about that.  The cops released her, and that was it.

I can see Charlie being in prison for obtaining the gun, but I have a HUGE problem that he is the only one in prison.  The mother made the 911 phone call that we all know was fake.  That alone indicates knowledge and participation.  Where else might that thread have gone if the prosecutors had bothered to pull it?  I think the prosecutors did a half-assed job, and I kind of agree with the first judge.  The prosecution could not show that Charlie did the shooting and was the only participant.

[saber5055]

I totally agree with @Ohmo about the mom just skipping away in this. Although this could just be Dateline leaving out things again. I always have unanswered questions after each episode. They got Charlie on gun charges, not murder, but mom gets nothing?

I'd still like to know about life insurance and other payouts mom might have gotten. We also never knew about the brother, Dateline skipped that too, unless I just missed it. So mom's still living in that nice house dad bought and was murdered in? Or did she bail back to Canada.

I'd like to read that email Charlie sent to his frat brothers, "Showtime."

And so much YES to "you just can't killed assholes." Well, I guess in this case you can.

[Ohmo]

8 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

Although this could just be Dateline leaving out things again.

While Dateline does indeed do that, Saber, in this case, I don't think this is Dateline leaving things out.  I just did a quick Google search of "Jean Tan."  Just her name.  Charlie's name appeared in the headline of every article that the search spit back, and I think that's the point that his defense team in the first trial and even the judge in the first trial was trying to make.

The defense team explicitly brought up Mom and the judge in the first trial said that the prosecution did not show evidence that Charlie committed the murder.  Loading the gun is not the same thing as committing the murder.  Theoretically, while odd, Charlie could have loaded the gun for his mother each time, and his mother could have done the shooting.  Odd, yes, but they waited four days to report the crime, so odd's already in play.

Participation by Charlie is obvious, but participation by Mom is also obvious by virtue of the Mom's 911 call.  The cops didn't believe Charlie's story and started digging, but they believed Mom's story?  The unequal levels of discussion are glaring, and considering that the prosecution had to work to file the gun charges, the lack of effort to dig into the story of another person who was also in that house is also glaring.

[cooksdelight]

This is starting to sound like inept police work and inept prosecutors. Can’t prove who shot Dad, but since Charlie has the gun hanging over his head, might as well blame him. Someone has to pay, somehow.

[JudyObscure]

I think this happens a lot, though, not just with Mrs. Tan.  Look at the recent episode where the evil second wife of the murderer said she would have cut off the victim's fingers.  She never would have been caught if she hadn't bragged to the wrong guy and I'll bet the police had suspicions that she was in on it.  They knew she had lied to give her husband an alibi just as they knew Mrs, Tan had lied on the 911 call.  I think they just put all their efforts into the one where they think they can get a conviction. 

We heard the police say how convincing Mrs Tan was on the phone  -- while I thought it was some of the worst acting I ever heard.  Her defense attorney would have said she never dreamed her son would resort to murder, but she lied for him afterward because she was afraid.  There would be lots of that screechy crying on the stand from a tiny little abused woman, with no DNA at the scene.  No jury would convict her.

[TVbitch]

Then there was that other case where the ex wife convined her new boyfriend and her two barely adult sons that the ex husband/dad must die. The boys were caught disposing of bags on their dad's bloody clothes in a park. The whole family was tried together, although the cops were never sure who did what. ...I forget how it all shook out, but of course the only defense was to point the finger at the other people involved as the actually murderer, even though they were all clearly involved. I know some of them went down for the murder though. 

How is Ms. Tan at the least not guilty of obstructing justice, lying to the police, failing to report a murder?

[Ohmo]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Look at the recent episode where the evil second wife of the murderer said she would have cut off the victim's fingers.  She never would have been caught if she hadn't bragged to the wrong guy and I'll bet the police had suspicions that she was in on it. 

The police did have suspicions about Cyndi, which they voiced but could not prove, and you're right, they did get lucky with what she said to Matt.  With Jean Tan, though, the difference for me is that it didn't come across as the police considering her involvement and not being able to prove it.  There seemed to be no attempt to investigate her and ascertain what could be proven and what couldn't.  The entire focus seemed to be on Charlie.

[iMonrey]

"Before the Storm." Typical "the husband did it" episode. What's strange is that the jeweler boyfriend also failed the polygraph test. I recently listened to a podcast interview with a polygraph examiner. He said that what they use today measures sweat, and that it is 100% reliable. But, what if you're just sweaty? Maybe the jeweler was guilty of some shady business practices and was worried about what the police might ask him. Or, maybe it was just hot in there. I don't know, but I'm glad polygraph tests are still inadmissible in court. (Right?)

The female prosecutor in this case had a voice that was like nails on a chalkboard. Also, did my ears deceive me or did she say the suspect was "dicking us around?" I wasn't away you could say "Dicking" on NBC now.

[TVbitch]

I heard "dicking" too, and was like whah?! 

Agree about polygraphs. I am low thyroid and even though I live in a super hot climate, I rarely sweat, even when exercising. 

That little girl is lucky to be alive. 

[LakeGal]

I thought the ex hubby and boyfriend both looked alike.  Ex hubby was bald, but otherwise she had a type.  

I had seen this case before.  I remember hearing the fact her name Crystal was short for Crystal Meth.  

[A.Ham]

On 7/9/2019 at 3:55 PM, LakeGal said:

I laughed at Keith calling her the Dimwit Sister.  

Finally got around to this. “Dimwit Sister was worth it, but so was Keith’s description of the “Motley crew” as a “ragged band of walking felonies” while they each filed into the interrogation room on screen.

On a serious note, I am sorry this man had such evil people around him. First they try to overdose him with his own meds, and when that didn’t work, they orchestrated point blank murder. Disgusting. I don’t blame the daughter for being angry.

[Ohmo]

4 hours ago, LakeGal said:

I had seen this case before.  I remember hearing the fact her name Crystal was short for Crystal Meth.   

This episode made me extremely sad.  To be named for crystal meth, to have both parents die and leave her orphaned, to have those parents be drug addicts, and THEN to be abducted, imprisoned, and sexually assaulted at 13... After all of that---to be murdered at 37.  The universe seemed to have it out for Crystal.  It seems very unfair that one person's life should have been that tortured and scarred.  If anyone deserved a decent husband, it was Crystal, and instead she got a murderer.

[answerphone]

I'm only partially done with Dateline's "Written in Blood".

Why is this guy Roc smiling and grinning and laughing while discussing his former girlfriend's stabbing?

[saber5055]

On 7/16/2019 at 12:52 PM, TVbitch said:

Agree about polygraphs. I am low thyroid and even though I live in a super hot climate, I rarely sweat, even when exercising. 

You could have a nice career as a hit man. Or woman! And pass all the polys.

Last night's episode about the woman soldier being "disappeared" and the PI taking the case of his own volition was a rerun, but I had forgotten most of it. I guess it's good to have short-term memory loss where Dateline is concerned since so many are repeats.

I know the PI was working on his own, but how did he pay his bills over the two years he worked this case since he wasn't being paid as far as the show said. I also wonder how he got so involved out of the clear blue, the show didn't explain that fully or even at all. He had a military demeanor so that might have been the connection.

I do want to say that I know several people who have dogs certified for trailing, tracking, search and rescue, and human remains detection. Friends' dogs have found bodies at the bottom of lakes, deceased buried six feet under concrete, lost dementia patients ... it's remarkable what dogs can do. I'm glad this dog got a pay off by finding the body; dogs can get depressed when they can't do their jobs to a conclusion.

Meanwhile, I  wondered why the killer didn't move out of town/state. He had every opportunity, assuming he was being paid by the Froggy Bottom bar.

[TVbitch]

2 hours ago, saber5055 said:

You could have a nice career as a hit man. Or woman! And pass all the polys.

That's what I thought when they brought up the sweat thing! Plus having watched so much Dateline, I would never be stupid enough to talk to the police. And I would also bring a second hit man with me on each job, so we could rock it Charlie Tan style if caught and just point the finger at each other. :) 

I was foggy brained (not to be confused with Froggy Bottomed) about last night's episode too, so I watched again. That PI was kind of odd. His Carrie Matheson case wall was rather sad, and what was up with the brick warehouse? I was like, is he trying to get a TV show out of this or something? Why was he not recording the suspect? He put so much into it, he was depressed when it was over. That is not healthy. The girl's family did not seem to be in on what he was doing, nor the police. (Although police wasted no time taking all the credit in the press conferece!)

[cooksdelight]

35 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

I was like, is he trying to get a TV show out of this or something?

Since Dateline dedicated so much of the airtime to him, I’d say yes. And the Dateline producers will produce his show. That brick wall was totally for dramatic effect.

Glad the dog finally got a hit on the body.

[saber5055]

22 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

Since Dateline dedicated so much of the airtime to him, I’d say yes. And the Dateline producers will produce his show. That brick wall was totally for dramatic effect.

I would totally watch his show. And the brick wall reminded me of so many other shows. Even The Good Wife had the law firm move into an old warehouse with the same brick walls. Most retro restaurants have "original" brick walls too.

Although taking two years to solve a murder might be a little lengthy span of time, even for a Dateline spin off. He'd have to step it up some.

[Ohmo]

If I were Brittgita, I would seriously never date again.  Yikes!

I know that she's having trust issues, but maybe that's good for her.  Self-preservation and all, which I believe very strongly in.  Suspicion is not always a bad thing.

I was quite surprised that she told investigators that her husband had an unusual hobby collecting seeds that could be used to make poison.  That didn't somehow raise alarm bells with her just on general principle?

I'm glad that she's alive.  On a very shallow note, I thought the toxicology doctor was very cute. :)

[Annber03]

11 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

I was quite surprised that she told investigators that her husband had an unusual hobby collecting seeds that could be used to make poison.  That didn't somehow raise alarm bells with her just on general principle?

I was thinking the same thing. Denial is a strong thing, I guess?

I had to laugh at how stupid her husband wound up being when the investigators were asking to see his phone. I can understand him wanting to allow them to look through it, to try and make himself seem cooperative and all that...but then he makes a point of telling them he's cleared his search history. Yeah. That totally won't make them raise an eyebrow, nooooooo. 

To say nothing of the fact that yet again, people, things are never completely deleted from the internet! I love how, in cases where people are caught via internet searches, they're never even remotely subtle  in what they search out online. It's just all out there in detail. 

And then he openly told one of his girlfriends that he wanted his wife to be hit by a bus. I'm hoping once she heard that she was like, "Aaaaaaaaand I'm out." 

Anywho, yeah, thank goodness his wife survived, and that her son was thankfully spared falling ill, too. I've heard a few cases about people being poisoned in this manner. Truly sadistic stuff. 

[cooksdelight]

Tonight’s show scared the everloving daylights out of me.

[TVbitch]

The only mystery in this episode was: How can this murderer be so goddamn dumb. 

I mean for fucks sake, people, if you are going to poison your wife, go to the library to do your poison googling and order your Poisoner's Handbook. Do not openly collect poisons as a hobby. Do not drive your wife from a hospital that can't figure it out to one that might. Do not throw incriminating evidence into your own garbage bin. Do not tell all your lovers that your wife is dead and/or you wished she was dead. Do not agree to a lie detector test. And finally, and perhaps most importantly, do not confess to poisoning your wife! Did I miss anything? 😃  

And, yes, that doctor was hot.  

[iMonrey]

Prussian Blue Mystery: not much of a mystery. I knew The Husband Did It® within the first five minutes. They didn't even mention his existence until after the first commercial break, and then they weren't interviewing him either. Dead giveaway.

Much props to the victim for her miraculous recovery.

Quote

And, yes, that doctor was hot.  

Agreed.

[Annber03]

Another thing about that episode: I now know that Prussian blue paint can be used for more than simply making pictures look pretty. Disturbing yet fascinating factoid. 

[TVbitch]

Yeah, the government is stockpiling it and will decide who gets to have it, so I'm guessing it won't be any of us. 

[saber5055]

I tuned in half way through, so missed the husband saying he wanted his wife dead, and that he had girlfriends. I just knew it was him when it was said he was being so wonderful and bringing her food all the time when she got sick. Total red flag to me, I knew he did it and it had to be poison.

The son wanting to eat her breakfast sandwich was chilling. I'm such a smart ass, I would have told my husband to buzz off and given the kid half of the sandwich. I wonder if the husband would have knocked it out of his hand ... or just let his son die too.

17 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

Yeah, the government is stockpiling it and will decide who gets to have it, so I'm guessing it won't be any of us. 

Learning that about Prussian Blue was a big eye opener. I was surprised the gov let Dateline air info about it, it seems to be kind of a secret. I'm guessing "some people" have ready access to it and, like @TVbitch says, it won't be any of us.

18 hours ago, Ohmo said:

If I were Brittgita, I would seriously never date again.  Yikes!

I really felt sorry for her. How can she trust anyone again. I wouldn't even trust my women friends, much less any guy I met anywhere, relative or stranger. And eat at a potluck or buffet or anyone's house? No thank you. I really wish her well, her story broke my heart.

Her husband, meanwhile, was a real dumbass, for all the reasons @TVbitch listed. I mean seriously, go to the library for your google searches. Although he figured he'd never be caught, pretty much like all killers think. "No one will catch ME."

Now I'm going to be giving people on computers at the library the side eye.

[Ohmo]

2 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Another thing about that episode: I now know that Prussian blue paint can be used for more than simply making pictures look pretty. Disturbing yet fascinating factoid. 

I wondered if the doctors, as a true last resort, couldn't have fed Brittgita paint, at least as a stop-gap measure until they got their hands on the actual Prussian Blue.  It seemed like they had to wait for a long time.  While eating paint certainly is not recommended, she was near death, and the doctor was running out of time.

[saber5055]

9 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

I wondered if the doctors, as a true last resort, couldn't have fed Brittgita paint, at least as a stop-gap measure until they got their hands on the actual Prussian Blue.

I half-way thought that, and wondered about the Prussian Blue oil paints and watercolor tubes I have in my paint box. But I figured those paints were just named that and the color came from ... whatever, but not real Prussian Blue.

I need to look into that, and maybe buy more tubes!

[LittleIggy]

Where did the husband (knew it was him) get the thallium? Surely the RC Church would give her an annulment.

[EtheltoTillie]

HBO is airing a two part doc on the upstate NY case about the little boy who was killed, which case previously was on Dateline and was discussed here. Who Killed Garrett Phillips. I will take discussion over to HBO Docs forum. 

[Ohmo]

12 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Where did the husband (knew it was him) get the thallium? Surely the RC Church would give her an annulment.

Didn't he extract it from seeds?  I seem to remember the episode mentioning some machine or mechanism that he used to take material from seeds and somehow make it more potent.  There was some connection to the seeds, although I didn't fully understand the process.  The seeds were how he was able to stay under the radar and not tip off authorities that he had gotten thallium from somewhere.

[Tabbygirl521]

13 hours ago, Ohmo said:

Didn't he extract it from seeds?  I seem to remember the episode mentioning some machine or mechanism that he used to take material from seeds and somehow make it more potent.  There was some connection to the seeds, although I didn't fully understand the process.  The seeds were how he was able to stay under the radar and not tip off authorities that he had gotten thallium from somewhere.

Thallium is a heavy metal, so I thinknhe needed a direct source. Hospitals have it but I’m sure it’s impossible to get to and steal. I’d love to know how this piece of crap got it. 

[Irlandesa]

I haven't been able to respond to this thread this week but finally I can speak to the the suggestion that the doctor is hot.  Indeed he is.  Indeed.

In fact, I think I watch too many soapy shows because I thought this was going to end with the doctor and the victim falling in love.  "She's the beautiful woman dying of a mysterious illness.  He's the only (handsome) doctor able to save her."

It is weird, though, my NBC station reran another poisoning story in the middle of the night.

[Ohmo]

4 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

In fact, I think I watch too many soapy shows because I thought this was going to end with the doctor and the victim falling in love. 

I wasn't thinking about falling in love, but I did think that we were going to hear that they were dating.

On to "The Figure in the Garage."  The ex-wife is totally involved.  Even though the jailhouse snitch is a jailhouse snitch, I believe him about Christine.  She must have Terry totally whipped for him to not flip on her for a lighter prison sentence.  I hope the cops can find more evidence against her because she's "won." at this point.  She has custody of her daughter, and she got her current husband to take the fall for her.  No way do I buy that Terry just up and decided to kill Don all on his own with Christine having no idea beforehand.  No way.

[cooksdelight]

Totally agree. Maybe after a year or two in prison, Terry will come to his senses and give her up. What motive would he have to kill the guy? None, except to please his wife and her commands that he take Don out.

I’m hoping the DAs office stays on top of this one and perhaps offers Terry some time off if he tells them about Christine’s involvement.

[Ohmo]

1 hour ago, cooksdelight said:

I’m hoping the DAs office stays on top of this one and perhaps offers Terry some time off if he tells them about Christine’s involvement.

The DA's office doesn't control what's featured on Dateline, but I bet they're hoping that the episode might shake something loose, if not with Terry then from another source of information.

I bet Christine also has legal counsel that told her not to appear on Dateline.   There was that woman in Texas who was accused of killing her husband.  She appeared on 48 Hours, and the DA used what she said in the interview to investigate another avenue,.  She was able to be prosecuted and convicted of something, I believe,

[CrazyInAlabama]

Taking the wife to a hospital with more resources doesn't always mean that she would get different care.   I remember the case of a woman who was convicted of poisoning and killing two husbands/boyfriends, and suspected of killing other relatives too.    She poisoned her own daughter, and the daughter almost died. 

 What saved the daughter was she was brought to the huge, university hospital, and doctors were still puzzled about her symptoms.   Then a doctor who had just read an article about signs of heavy metal poisoning, and he diagnosed her and saved her life.   

Sometimes coincidence can make all of the difference.   

Edited July 27, 2019 by CrazyInAlabama

[Cupcake04]

On 7/15/2019 at 7:26 AM, cooksdelight said:

This is starting to sound like inept police work and inept prosecutors. Can’t prove who shot Dad, but since Charlie has the gun hanging over his head, might as well blame him. Someone has to pay, somehow.

I am way late for this discussion, but you hit the nail on the head.  The DA office here has botched so many high profile cases recently, not just Tan and Rideout cases but also a mass shooting at the Boys and girls Club where one conviction was overturned and then he was acquitted on re-trial.   I cannot stand DA Sandra Doorley.  So this gun conviction was her trying to save face.  There is way way more to this story.  I have posted here before concerning the Tan case and also the Rideout case.  Dateline pretty much botched both of these episodes by leaving so much info out.    I am squarely on Charlie's side.  I firmly believe his mother did it and Charlie took the rap.  

Also, the fact that they let his buddy Whitney off the hook and gave Charlie 20 years?  Total crap.  Dateline didn't tell you that his buddy is from a prominent local family...road even named after them.  Smell the stink?  Especially when another high profile case here, The Christmas Eve ambush, they threw the book at Dawn Ngyen for buying a gun and giving it to the guy years before he ambushed the fireman.  But Whitney gets off totally just cuz they wanted to nail Charlie anyway they could.  I don't know if Dateline mentioned it or not but they also moved his gun trial to Syracuse so it wasnt even here in Rochester.  They also kept him jailed the entire time, and it took quite awhile for this to go to trial.  

BTW.....no one has claimed Mr Tan's remains and they are still at the funeral home.  Says a lot, huh?

I will post more but if anyone is interested before I can do so the local paper Democrat and Chronicle has some good articles about it.

Edited July 27, 2019 by Cupcake04

[saber5055]

On 7/24/2019 at 11:59 AM, Ohmo said:

Didn't he extract it from seeds?  I seem to remember the episode mentioning some machine or mechanism that he used to take material from seeds and somehow make it more potent.

He did make some risin, which I learned about from Breaking Bad. On that show, it was made from Lilies of the Valley (I think), but Wiki says its a lectin produced in the seeds of the castor oil plant, So there's your poison seeds. Or one of them.

I'm all about Christine the wife feeling the burn for masterminding (IMO) the garage murder. As the one cop (or whomever that was) said, it's one thing for someone to convince a guy to kill another guy, but to convince that same person to kill himself? That was some crazy. And she was mad he failed at that.

I wish they had brought the jailhouse snitch to court in a suit and tie and not in an orange jumpsuit with chains all over him like he was Hannibal Lector. They dress up criminals who are on trial, they could have given this dude a bit of courtesy. I liked him, especially when he said he told the story because the dead guy was a decent fellow who didn't need to die.

I missed the beginning (I always miss the beginning) so will have to catch a rerun to know how everyone was related to each other.

[Blissfool]

On 7/23/2019 at 12:43 PM, TVbitch said:

I mean for fucks sake, people, if you are going to poison your wife, go to the library to do your poison googling and order your Poisoner's Handbook. Do not openly collect poisons as a hobby. Do not drive your wife from a hospital that can't figure it out to one that might. Do not throw incriminating evidence into your own garbage bin. Do not tell all your lovers that your wife is dead and/or you wished she was dead. Do not agree to a lie detector test. And finally, and perhaps most importantly, do not confess to poisoning your wife! Did I miss anything? 😃   

Do not admit to knowing all the "Do Nots" on a public forum. 🤣

When my ex-husband and I were separated he would regularly bring over home-cooked meals or take-out for me and the kids. (Yes, I'd eat it up cuz it was always delicious.) He had his vices, but thank goodness poisoning people was not one of them.

[Irlandesa]

4 hours ago, saber5055 said:

He did make some risin, which I learned about from Breaking Bad. On that show, it was made from Lilies of the Valley (I think), but Wiki says its a lectin produced in the seeds of the castor oil plant, So there's your poison seeds. Or one of them.

I learned about risin from Breaking Bad too.  I'm almost surprised when it's not the poison since I think even the poison amateurs know about it.

But about Breaking Bad (spoiler for those who haven' seen season 4 of the show) they did get it right:
 

Spoiler

You're thinking about how Brock (Jesse's girlfriend's son) was poisoned.  Walt had Saul and Huell lift the cigarette pack with the ricin cigarette in it from Jesse.

So when Brock fell ill, Jesse discovered the ricin cigarette was missing and assumed that's what poisoned Brock.  In reality, Brock had eaten berries from a Lily of the Valley plant which are poisonous.  We see one of those plants at Walt's house implying he had given the berries to Brock.  The ricin didn't come from the plant, though.  Walt had made it earlier.

4 hours ago, Blissfool said:

When my ex-husband and I were separated he would regularly bring over home-cooked meals or take-out for me and the kids. (Yes, I'd eat it up cuz it was always delicious.) He had his vices, but thank goodness poisoning people was not one of them.

And at least he didn't give you food and then practically tackle your kids preventing them from eating the same food.

Edited July 28, 2019 by Irlandesa

[Blissfool]

43 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

  Reveal spoiler

You're thinking about how Brock (Jesse's girlfriend's son) was poisoned.  Walt had Saul and Huell lift the cigarette pack with the ricin cigarette in it from Jesse.

So when Brock fell ill, Jesse discovered the ricin cigarette was missing and assumed that's what poisoned Brock.  In reality, Brock had eaten berries from a Lily of the Valley plant which are poisonous.  We see one of those plants at Walt's house implying he had given the berries to Brock.  The didn't come from the plant, though.  Walt had made it earlier.

And at least he didn't give you food and then practically tackle your kids preventing them from eating the same food.

 I am of the the paranoid variety after years of watching shows like Dateline and 48 hours, so dont think I didnt think it. Alas, he just wanted me back, not dead.

Edited July 28, 2019 by Blissfool

[12catcrazy]

sOkay, so I watched last night's episode featuring the Pamela Smart case.  So everybody, do you think she was guilty of being the mastermind of murdering her husband, yay or nay, and why?  

And on one note, anybody else annoyed by her attitude?  And gee, wouldn't it be nice of the rest of us folks who don't go to jail get 3 degrees paid for by the taxpayers of our state?  Not to mention have the time to actually study for those degrees while holding down a job and dealing with family and the other stuff in life?   Lets not even talk about the interpretive dancing or what ever the hell they showed us towards the end there.  

Edited July 30, 2019 by 12catcrazy
typo

[cooksdelight]

I’m glad I watched something else and forgot this was on. 

[Ohmo]

2 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

sOkay, so I watched last night's episode featuring the Pamela Smart case.  So everybody, do you think she was guilty of being the mastermind of murdering her husband, yay or nay, and why?  

I don't know if she was the mastermind.  Maybe she didn't explicitly tell the boys to kill Gregg.  That said, what she's not understanding is that she was in a position of authority.  That's what she isn't grasping.  Teacher student relationships are HUGELY out-of-bounds.  You will be immediately fired and your teaching credential goes bye-bye.  Even back then.  My educational ethics professor intentionally scared the crap out of his classes on this point when I was in college.

She's already admitted to sleeping with a student, so while she may be correct as to the letter of the law (she did not specifically tell him to kill Gregg), she has no understanding of the optics.  By the mere nature of her position, she implicitly had influence, and she's already demonstrated that she used that influence inappropriately.  She has to own that influence more than she has, not just say "I didn't tell him to do this."  I can see why that one man voted to not give her a hearing.

[TVbitch]

Impossible to say if she was the mastermind. Although I don't see teenage boys coming up with the part about "she didn't want us to use a knife cuz it would mess up her white furniture."  

Pam is not likable, that's for sure. Whatever she learned in prison, she did not grow in empathy. 

That said, other actual murderers have done less time and it does not seem she would be a threat to society.

That said, she would be released a hero to her "followers" and probably snag a man and have a nice life, and that would irk me as I'm not sure she's earned that privilege.

I wish the trigger man would agreed to an interview. 

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, Ohmo said:

That's what she isn't grasping.  Teacher student relationships are HUGELY out-of-bounds.  You will be immediately fired and your teaching credential goes bye-bye.  Even back then.  My educational ethics professor intentionally scared the crap out of his classes on this point when I was in college.

He was 15 when they had sex so it wasn't okay because she was an adult and he was a child but she wasn’t a teacher. She worked as a media coordinator at the school and they met  when they were both volunteering for a drug awareness program. 

Edited July 30, 2019 by biakbiak

[Ohmo]

2 hours ago, biakbiak said:

She worked as a media coordinator at the school and they met  when they were both volunteering for a drug awareness program. 

We're getting into semantics here, but the dynamic is still the same.  The episode said that she was employed by the school district.  The expectations of her behavior would be the same as a teacher, coach, or any other staff position.  She would still have been considered to have authority over a student, and inappropriate behavior with a student would result in her termination.

[LGraves65]

I've followed the Pam Smart case since it happened, and she was definitely the mastermind. She left the cellar door open. She told them to put the dog away so it wouldn't be "traumatized" by seeing Gregg killed. She told them where to find her jewelry.

I think Pam is a narcissist and a manipulator, and now she's using the #MeToo movement to get sympathy. Poor Pam, seduced by a scrawny 15yo boy.

[cooksdelight]

That’s why I don’t watch anything about her on TV. Nor Jodi Arias. It just feeds their narcissism. 

[OpalNightstream]

Various musings:

Andrea’s uptalk was at an all time high in this episode. 

Pam was “Gorgeous” “sensuous”????!!  Let’s go with “ordinary”

how did she get access to all that jewelry in jail? Not to mention I guess she also has the time/means to color her hair too.

Glad us taxpayers could pay for her college degrees while we struggle to pay for our own children’s tuition.