All Episodes Discussion

[Annber03]

Oh, for the love of god, that is terrifying.

[cooksdelight]

There are crazy women out there. Love After Lockup would never have become a hit show without them. Hell, Manson got them too, and was supposed to get married to a young girl.

[Pebble Puppy]

Maybe these women think they will be special enough that they won't be killed. I don't get it. Seems like they are lacking critical thinking skills but these days, many people are.

[ponyglue]

That's the allure though, they won't get killed because their lover is safely behind bars, not cheating or treating them like crap like the other people in their life.  Willfull ignorance and wanting to be "loved" so badly by anyone.  So sad.

[cooksdelight]

And then they sit back and dream of the wedding day. And it never turns out like their dreams. 

[patty1h]

I think woman who feels the urge to nurture or mother, or ones that feel that even a murder has some redeeming quality, or ones that think only God can judge are the ones who hook up with prisoners.  They get a man who will always be where he says, will make you feel needed.  A lifer has nothing better to do than write letters that say you are the best thing in his life, he has no one else, he looks forward to your letters, etc.  All that fills a void or makes them feel "special".  Then I've read that the savvy prisoner may start with "the food here is awful, can you send me $ for commissary" and the woman can feel good that she is taking care of him that way too. 

[Pebble Puppy]

16 minutes ago, patty1h said:

I think woman who feels the urge to nurture or mother, or ones that feel that even a murder has some redeeming quality, or ones that think only God can judge are the ones who hook up with prisoners.  They get a man who will always be where he says, will make you feel needed.  A lifer has nothing better to do than write letters that say you are the best thing in his life, he has no one else, he looks forward to your letters, etc.  All that fills a void or makes them feel "special".  Then I've read that the savvy prisoner may start with "the food here is awful, can you send me $ for commissary" and the woman can feel good that she is taking care of him that way too. 

That's a mommy not a wife. I'd rather be single. Lol

[CrazyInAlabama]

I heard the Ashleigh Banfield interview on her former HLN show with a man who was a previous lover of Chris Watts, and both were wondering about the current one.   Apparently, the current mistress was either located by the police, or called them, and admitted the relationship, so wasn't talking to the press at the time.   However, the mistress searched the family online, including the wife, and other information before she started her affair with Chris Watts.      So any of her statements that she didn't know he was still married and living at home is a bunch of garbage.

[Luckylyn]

On youtube someone posted the police bodycam footage from when Chris Watts family was missing and analyses the body language.   It’s clear the police were suspicious early on because of Chris’ total lack of urgency to find out where his family was, but they don’t telegraph it to him just letting him get enough rope to hang himself.  This case really shows the value of bodycam footage.  Because a police offer can state his interpretation of a suspects demeanor, words, and actions and the defense can claim they are wrong or exaggerating but the bodycam footage makes the actual events of that day really clear in a way that’s difficult to argue with.  We can see exactly what’s said, in what tone, and the body language.  

Edited December 23, 2018 by Luckylyn

[iMonrey]

They reran Under A Full Moon on Saturday - the one about the Las Vegas cocktail waitress found dead in her home by her husband who was a firefighter. I hadn't seen it before. The minute the husband revealed they were separated I knew it was him. Even when it turned out he had a solid alibi I knew he must have hired someone to do it for him. They also started the episode with his 911 call and he sounded way too calm for someone who'd just found his wife lying dead on the floor. Not much of a mystery here, typical "husband did it" story. Why are there so many of these? Why is murder such a commonly preferred option for divorce for so many of these men? Is it just an ego thing?

[Pebble Puppy]

12 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

They reran Under A Full Moon on Saturday - the one about the Las Vegas cocktail waitress found dead in her home by her husband who was a firefighter. I hadn't seen it before. The minute the husband revealed they were separated I knew it was him. Even when it turned out he had a solid alibi I knew he must have hired someone to do it for him. They also started the episode with his 911 call and he sounded way too calm for someone who'd just found his wife lying dead on the floor. Not much of a mystery here, typical "husband did it" story. Why are there so many of these? Why is murder such a commonly preferred option for divorce for so many of these men? Is it just an ego thing?

Because the significant other usually does it. Statistics show it's usually someone close and that's why they have to rule out the spouse. 

Edited December 23, 2018 by Pebble Puppy

[Annber03]

16 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Why is murder such a commonly preferred option for divorce for so many of these men? Is it just an ego thing?

Oh, definitely. That and a need to control everything-if they get divorced they'll risk losing some, if not all, of their money/their house/the kids/etc. 

Problem is, they apparently don't ever stop to consider the fact that if they get caught and are found guilty of the murder, they're going to lose everything for good anyway because they'll be going to jail for the rest of their life. At least if they were to just get a divorce, they might still salvage some part of their lifestyle.

Edited December 23, 2018 by Annber03

[Pebble Puppy]

11 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Oh, definitely. That and a need to control everything-if they get divorced they'll risk losing some, if not all, of their money/their house/the kids/etc. 

Problem is, they apparently don't ever stop to consider the fact that if they get caught and are found guilty of the murder, they're going to lose everything for good anyway because they'll be going to jail for the rest of their life. At least if they were to just get a divorce, they might still salvage some part of their lifestyle.

Typical of the narcissistic personality to think they are smarter than everyone else, including the cops.

[patty1h]

Re:  Murdering husbands - You'd think that every spouse with murder on their minds would be having second thoughts after Chris Watts, but, damn, another man in CO was just arrested for (allegedly) killing his baby's mother.  He just did not learn from the Watts case.  I think they do think they're smarter than anyone but look at these last two clowns in Colorado - both nabbed by their own hubris.  I hope that it burns them every second of every day - just eternal self-flagellation.

[bubbls]

I know I’m too scatter-brained to get away with murder. Aside from the wrongness, haha.

I think a lot women who pursue relationships with convicts are ultimately afraid of intimacy and the responsibilities and vulnerabilities of a real relationship. Romance with a man in prison is very safe emotionally. 

Edited December 24, 2018 by bubbls

[cooksdelight]

It also allows the woman to be in control, something they may not have ever experienced. 

[Pebble Puppy]

I suppose but what do they get out of it? Someone you don't know if you can trust? So they say they love you but how many other women are they writing to? It seems crazy to me. They can't contribute in any way. Yep, I'd rather be single. I don't need a man that much.

[saber5055]

On 12/23/2018 at 3:56 PM, iMonrey said:

Why is murder such a commonly preferred option for divorce for so many of these men? Is it just an ego thing?

Not ego IMO. It's because the one hates the other so much, they want that person dead. A divorce leaves both alive, which is too much for some people to be able to handle, they want the one they professed to love in sickness and in health, forever and ever, gone forever and ever. It's a I-hate-you-SO-MUCH thing, living is too good for you. Once the spouse is dead and gone for good, the murderer is free forever. Well, until he or she is arrested. But the person they hated so much is still dead, so there's that.

Most people can't see that side, but anyone who has been in a hate-filled relationship should be able to.

Edited December 26, 2018 by saber5055

[saber5055]

On 12/22/2018 at 1:57 PM, cooksdelight said:

And then they sit back and dream of the wedding day. And it never turns out like their dreams. 

LOL. That sort of describes the wedding day (and subsequent marriage) of most brides!

[TVbitch]

Dateline makes me want to give up dating altogether. 

Does anyone watch the reruns on Fox network? OMG, those hosts are so terrible. They are not even looking in the camera half the time. 

[cooksdelight]

15 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

They are not even looking in the camera half the time.

That off-side-stare they do is some camera person’s idea of being artsy. I want to smack them to look back into the camera.

[bubbls]

21 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Dateline makes me want to give up dating altogether. 

Does anyone watch the reruns on Fox network? OMG, those hosts are so terrible. They are not even looking in the camera half the time. 

I don’t think I’ve seen these hosts, but the datelines I watch onMediacom’s Video On Demand require suffering through (no fast forward) smug actors giving me patronizing advice on passwords, cell phones, tolerance, and road rage and assorted other subjects they think they’re all-knowing and wise about. 

[sainte-chapelle]

On 2018-12-16 at 12:43 PM, iMonrey said:

There's a show on TNT called Animal Kingdom and they had the very same kind of celebration on that show for a surfer character that died. So I guess that's actually a thing.

They steer away from victim-blaming as hard as they can on this show, often to the point of whitewashing. But yeah, while nobody "deserves" to get murdered, Chris deliberately chose to go into business with someone shady as hell. And whether he was simply ignorant of Ed's past or willing to overlook it, both were bad choices. The show made an issue of how "devout" Chris was and how "devout" Ed supposedly was, and yet they both went to Vegas and indulged in all kinds of "sins," for lack of a better word. 

The only real mystery here is how Chris actually died. We don't know if there was some kind of confrontation or if Ed plotted this whole thing and took him by surprise. It might have been accidental after all, for all we know.

Given the girlfriend statement I think he was a cokehead. Not saying he deserved to die but he didn't start up shady businesses, hang out all hours in Vegas and make hoards of cash by being a nice guy. His start up "advertising" businesses sounded shady as hell.

Edited December 28, 2018 by sainte-chapelle

[TVbitch]

21 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

That off-side-stare they do is some camera person’s idea of being artsy. I want to smack them to look back into the camera.

I did contemplate whether this might be a deliberate choice to add visual interest, but it is SO clearly and egregiously off-putting, I decided surely it has to be some mistake by the director or they put the telepromter in the wrong spot... something?!

  

25 minutes ago, bubbls said:

I don’t think I’ve seen these hosts, but the datelines I watch onMediacom’s Video On Demand require suffering through (no fast forward) smug actors giving me patronizing advice on passwords, cell phones, tolerance, and road rage and assorted other subjects they think they’re all-knowing and wise about. 

Dear God, I guess I should just count my blessings then, cuz that sounds unbearable. 

 

I was just watching the re-run where the wife was found tied up in the closet with a lump on her head, and her husband was stabbed to death in another closet. The wife had Lupus and Epilepsy and claimed to have had a seizure and not know what happened. She walked with a cane. There was no evidence to convinct this woman! Although, I admit when they said the couple was Jehovah's Witness, I was like, oh, dun dun dun. But still, there was zero evidence or motive beyond that.  

[sainte-chapelle]

On 2018-12-17 at 2:23 AM, UsernameFatigue said:

 

I also didn't understand why the lawyer wasn't suspicious of the half page agreement that Ed sent regarding the sale of Chris's shares to him. My husband just sold his shares of his company to his partners. The lawyers are the ones who drew up the agreement, and my hubby had to have his own lawyer and his partners had their own. The agreement was pages long and very detailed, and had to be signed by each partner in front of the lawyers and witnesses. It took weeks to complete. How in the world is a half page half assed "agreement" even legal? 

I was wondering the same thing, that is what makes me think that the business was shady as hell.

[bubbls]

Regarding Chris and Ed, I read in a news article that Chris was implicated in the theft Ed was previously involved in. No charges were brought against him. So they knew each other at the very least at that time. Chris knew Ed was a criminal, makes me cast a side-eye at Chris’ going into business with Ed. I think this episode takes the cake for whitewashing the victim. I wonder how much input the families have on what is or is not revealed about the victims. Because this story could’ve been told in half the time and much more honestly without the family. 

Edited December 29, 2018 by bubbls

[Melina22]

I just watched The Favourite Son. The whole show was really interesting and surprising but Joe's mother most of all. What a unique personality! I feel like there's so much more to her than what we even saw. She also looked like an older Meg Tilly. 

[OpalNightstream]

2 hours ago, Melina22 said:

I just watched The Favourite Son. The whole show was really interesting and surprising but Joe's mother most of all. What a unique personality! I feel like there's so much more to her than what we even saw. She also looked like an older Meg Tilly. 

She was a horrible excuse for a mother. Pinning her kids against each other was wrong on so many levels. Even after her precious son went to jail he still could do no wrong in her eyes. Her other kids didn’t ever stand a chance to get on her good graces because no one could come close to being as perfect as her Joey. 

[nora1992]

If my mother had stolen my ring to give to my brother, I would have had her arrested. Wasn’t the ring worth enough for a grand larceny charge? That is a cold thing to do, but that is the kind of behavior I would have learned from such a mother.  The fact that the daughter didn’t just demonstrates that she is the unsung nice person in the family.  I hope she finds a family that appreciates her.

[Melina22]

I can't disagree. The mother's behaviour and affect were so odd. In one way she seemed like someone who could come across as charming and quirky, but at the same time, you have to wonder if there was some kind of personality disorder at work. The family seemed sort of resigned to it. 

Speaking of personality disorders, I was really shocked that Chris turned out to be guilty. I thought his behaviour in the initial interview was pretty Oscar winning. Hardly what you'd expect from someone who had been plotting for years. No wonder it took them so long to put the pieces together. 

[TVbitch]

The whole family seemed odd. The mom was a piece of work one minute, then coming off as restrained and not wanting to show emotion the next. The sister, while not the killer, was still laughing and oddly detached at the police station. And at the end, when Josh was trying to Dr. Phil them all into coming to their senses and mending the family dynamics, they were all like... "um, yeah, we're good." Clearly everything was THE SAME and there was still a lot of distance and tension. 

I also thought Chris came off well in his first interview. How could he go to that much planning but be stupid enough to call the guy arranging the hitmen on his own phone, then allow police to download his phone?!?! 

Which episode was on Friday, I can't even remember now! 

[kicksave]

16 hours ago, OpalNightstream said:

She was a horrible excuse for a mother. Pinning her kids against each other was wrong on so many levels. Even after her precious son went to jail he still could do no wrong in her eyes. Her other kids didn’t ever stand a chance to get on her good graces because no one could come close to being as perfect as her Joey. 

Oh I so agree with you! She was a horrible mother...stealing the ring from her daughter by lying then giving it to her son who was clearly her favorite child...worse she said she would do it again! OMG! What a disgusting piece of trash she is. And sonny boy was an entitled asshole who knew he could do no wrong by his mommy and acted out accordingly. And he was quite alright with his mother lying to get the ring from his sister after his mom had given it to her in the first place. Her daughter seems like a very forgiving person...I don't think I would be so forgiving if this happened to me. 

[Irlandesa]

13 hours ago, Melina22 said:

Speaking of personality disorders, I was really shocked that Chris turned out to be guilty. I thought his behaviour in the initial interview was pretty Oscar winning. Hardly what you'd expect from someone who had been plotting for years. No wonder it took them so long to put the pieces together. 

I wish we could see his face a bit more in the interview because the ticks he had during that television interview were some pretty major tells that he was lying.  Speaking better of the victim than how you actually feel isn't unusual but those ticks were pretty exaggerated.  Overall, though, he did a great job from pretending he didn't know why he was being brought down to the police station to setting up the burglary.  No wonder why the sister was so grateful to the detectives.  There are some detectives on this show who would look at her as the obvious suspect and just run with it. BTW, I didn't think she was detached in the interview room.  She seemed kind of shocked at both her brother's death and the fact that she realized she was likely a suspect.  Now detached is the girl who appeared on 48 Hours last night.

That mother was ridiculous.  I wanted to slap her.  Especially when she said at the beginning that she didn't want to pick out a favorite and then admitted he was her favorite with a cutesy smile like she was proud of it.  It got even worse when I learned he did prison time.  I'm almost shocked the sister wasn't the murderer because I could see how she'd be driven to it.  

Edited December 31, 2018 by Irlandesa

[Melina22]

What fooled me was the way Chris seemed so relaxed and then asked the interrogator to promise not to tell Joe what he'd said about him, as if he had zero idea Joe was dead. It just seemed so natural. It seemed inconceivable that someone could be like that, knowing they'd contracted the murder. But there you go. People are infinitely unpredictable. 

[TVbitch]

1 hour ago, Melina22 said:

What fooled me was the way Chris seemed so relaxed and then asked the interrogator to promise not to tell Joe what he'd said about him, as if he had zero idea Joe was dead

Yeah, he made sure to talk about him in the present tense. But I agree with @Irlandesa that in that TV interview he SUCKED. Full of ticks and swallows and scared eyes. I'm surprised he wasn't flop sweating! Why the hell did he do that interview for god's sake! 

Oh, and I can't believe the guy who set up the 2 murders only got 5 years, cuz he cooperated. WTF?! 

 

2 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Now detached is the girl who appeared on 48 Hours last night.

She was a full on psycopath (and blabbermouth who could not shut up!). Why on Earth did that guy have a conversation with her with a loaded gun sitting on the table. And her mother was like Joe's mother! After everything still believing her daughter was her precious innocent baby and she would continue to do anything for her. 

[Annber03]

3 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

She was a full on psycopath (and blabbermouth who could not shut up!). Why on Earth did that guy have a conversation with her with a loaded gun sitting on the table. And her mother was like Joe's mother! After everything still believing her daughter was her precious innocent baby and she would continue to do anything for her. 

When they mentioned that her mom actually went over to her ex-boyfriend's house, where she was still staying at the time, to help comfort her, I was like, "Okay, well, that explains a lot." I mean, I get family members wanting to defend their loved ones when they're accused of a crime, or wanting to believe there had to be some valid reason for why they committed the crime (since in this particular case, there was no doubt the woman killed her boyfriend)....but there's defending and then there's just being flat out blind to their faults and issues. Her mom was definitely an example of the latter. 

Quote

Which episode was on Friday, I can't even remember now! 

A woman, Sabrina Limon, was accused of being involved in the murder of her husband Rob at his workplace, with the help of a guy she was having an affair with. And it came out during the show that they'd been involved in (supposed) open relationships with other people and there was partner swapping and whatnot happening, and this woman and the man she was having the affair with were super religious sorts as well, and it was just a whole big messy situation.

I'd heard the story before on another show, but the "Dateline" episode went more into the stuff about their sleeping around with others and the religious aspect. I lost count of how many times my mom and I were both rolling our eyes at these people throughout. The guy the woman had the affair with was talking during the trial about how he'd actually prayed shortly before going and killing the woman's husband (seriously. He said that), and there were texts and conversations between them where they talked about their religious beliefs (when they weren't sending cheesy Harlequin-style romantic texts to each other, that is), and God, and all that. Their attempts to appear all religious were so ludicrous, to the point where I could just imagine God observing all of this and being like, "Yeah, don't go dragging me into your mess, thanks, guys."

And Mankewicz interviewed a couple friends of theirs who later admitted to being involved in that lifestyle as well. Speaking in general terms, I don't really care what people do with their sex lives in that regard, that's entirely their business and if everyone's on board and consenting and all that good stuff, you do you...

...but in this particular case, I just got the feeling that all of these people-the woman and her lover, their friends, etc.-thought having these open poly type relationships made them appear more "cool" and "edgy" and whatnot. Like, you got the sense it was a way for them to desperately try and spruce up their otherwise uneventful lives. A comment from one of the friends even seemed to indicate as much, because when asked why they were involved in that sort of stuff, he goes, "What else are you going to do while living in the desert?" 

Yeah. It was just a really weird story. 

[Irlandesa]

30 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

And her mother was like Joe's mother! After everything still believing her daughter was her precious innocent baby and she would continue to do anything for her. 

Yeah.  I didn't want to go too OT in this thread but I also wanted to point out that it was a bad night for mothers on these true crime shows.  The first I saw of her mother (I tuned in late) was her saying something about how she was a good beautiful Christian girl raised in the church (or something to that effect) just like her mother.  I wondered who her mother could be because if she was the mother, it sounded way too self-congratulatory for her to say about herself.  And then it was the mother.

And oh how religion keeps popping up as a defense as if religious people aren't susceptible to the same foibles as non-religious people. They are and history shows they'll put selfish needs over right and wrong as much as anyone else.

13 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Their attempts to appear all religious were so ludicrous, to the point where I could just imagine God observing all of this and being like, "Yeah, don't go dragging me into your mess, thanks, guys."

This is so true. There's a style of poetry that's religious in nature but written with the passion of lovers.  Their conversations reminded me of that--without the eloquence.  So much passion for each other and God and as long as they're passionate about God, they're justified in whatever the hell they'd like to do.

Although I had a different POV about the open relationship.  I didn't think the other couple was exactly proud of it.  And I thought the prosecuter was eye-roll worthy in the cross-examination about why she was able to sleep with the neighbor but not have a love affair with another man.  It's not about a husband dictating the rules but rather a couple negotiating the rules of their relationship. 

But here was yet another wife who chose murder over divorce because of perception.

[saber5055]

Joey the Favorite Son was a new episode for me. There was SO MUCH WRONG with the mother, too much to even go into. But her stealing the ring back from the daughter, then loading it up with cubics and giving it back, like the daughter wouldn't notice. LOL, she drew a detailed picture of it for the detectives! But back to Mom: She said "Joey deserved it." WTH does that mean? He couldn't afford to buy a ring, any ring, for his Internet Russian bride? And about the bride, all I could think of were those "buy a wife online" sites where Russian women are marketed to rich Americans, and I guess men in other countries too.

I still never got where all their money came from, Joey's and Olga's. And after Joey died, the other owner had to work 24/7? What's wrong with hiring another mechanic? And a minimum-wage office clerk? Geesh. So much wrong with that picture.

I was flipping around at the end after the business partner got busted. Did they say he set up the burglary? And if he knew so much about Joey and his family fights, why didn't he tell the killers to take the ring off Olga? Then the sister really would have been in dutch for the murders.

Finally: What happened to the ring? Did the sister get it so she could put the real diamonds back in her cubic ring? Did it get buried with Dear Joey? Did Mom take it back? Do we know?

Yeah, that was a family that, if I were a part of it, I'd move far, far away. And change my name. And my will.

Edited December 31, 2018 by saber5055

[TVbitch]

5 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

So much passion for each other and God and as long as they're passionate about God, they're justified in whatever the hell they'd like to do.

Their babytalk cooing about God after the murder was so squicky and gross! 

This case was another instance where the family of the woman who murdered her husband ended up with custody of the two children. 

[bubbls]

The Favorite Son....I was laughing that His Highness Joey The Precious took off running like a coward and left his sweetheart to die alone. 

[saber5055]

43 minutes ago, bubbls said:

The Favorite Son....I was laughing that His Highness Joey The Precious took off running like a coward and left his sweetheart to die alone. 

He did? I missed that. Joey was found murdered under the bushes next to the building, his phone in hand. Maybe I heard wrong, the cops said Joey was still at the car when Olga was opening the door to their home. Not sure how they knew that. Maybe neighbors? Tracks in the dirt?

Edited December 31, 2018 by saber5055

[bubbls]

19 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

He did? I missed that. Joey was found murdered under the bushes next to the building, his phone in hand. Maybe I heard wrong, the cops said Joey was still at the car when Olga was opening the door to their home. Not sure how they knew that. Maybe neighbors? Tracks in the dirt?

 

Probably tracks, blood puddles, and bullet trajectories. When Josh was doing a walk-through with the detective he talked about it. Unless I’ve got it confused (possible!), I’m pretty sure the detective said Olga was shot first as she was unlocking the door. Joey was shot but managed to take off and tripped over a guy wire, which is when they bludgeoned him before finishing him off with more shots. That’s how Joey ended up next to the building. I think I’ve still got it. I’ll rewatch it tomorrow as I’m curious. Edited to say I would normally understand running after being shot, but with this guy and his nutty mommy I had to laugh. 

Edited December 31, 2018 by bubbls

[saber5055]

Oh, thanks @bubbls. I remember now they said Joey tripped over a guy wire, because I wondered where a guy wire was that someone would trip over it at all. A business could get sued for sure putting one where people can fall over it. I wonder where the car was in relation to the front door, and how dead Joey got behind the bushes. It sounded like he was nowhere near Olga. I'd like to see a map of the "crime scene." I think they said both were shot multiple times, but then it was also said they were shot like it was pro hit men. Shooting a ton load of bullets isn't exactly "professional." But what do I know!

[EtheltoTillie]

7 hours ago, Annber03 said:

When they mentioned that her mom actually went over to her ex-boyfriend's house, where she was still staying at the time, to help comfort her, I was like, "Okay, well, that explains a lot." I mean, I get family members wanting to defend their loved ones when they're accused of a crime, or wanting to believe there had to be some valid reason for why they committed the crime (since in this particular case, there was no doubt the woman killed her boyfriend)....but there's defending and then there's just being flat out blind to their faults and issues. Her mom was definitely an example of the latter. 

A woman, Sabrina Limon, was accused of being involved in the murder of her husband Rob at his workplace, with the help of a guy she was having an affair with. And it came out during the show that they'd been involved in (supposed) open relationships with other people and there was partner swapping and whatnot happening, and this woman and the man she was having the affair with were super religious sorts as well, and it was just a whole big messy situation.

I'd heard the story before on another show, but the "Dateline" episode went more into the stuff about their sleeping around with others and the religious aspect. I lost count of how many times my mom and I were both rolling our eyes at these people throughout. The guy the woman had the affair with was talking during the trial about how he'd actually prayed shortly before going and killing the woman's husband (seriously. He said that), and there were texts and conversations between them where they talked about their religious beliefs (when they weren't sending cheesy Harlequin-style romantic texts to each other, that is), and God, and all that. Their attempts to appear all religious were so ludicrous, to the point where I could just imagine God observing all of this and being like, "Yeah, don't go dragging me into your mess, thanks, guys."

And Mankewicz interviewed a couple friends of theirs who later admitted to being involved in that lifestyle as well. Speaking in general terms, I don't really care what people do with their sex lives in that regard, that's entirely their business and if everyone's on board and consenting and all that good stuff, you do you...

...but in this particular case, I just got the feeling that all of these people-the woman and her lover, their friends, etc.-thought having these open poly type relationships made them appear more "cool" and "edgy" and whatnot. Like, you got the sense it was a way for them to desperately try and spruce up their otherwise uneventful lives. A comment from one of the friends even seemed to indicate as much, because when asked why they were involved in that sort of stuff, he goes, "What else are you going to do while living in the desert?" 

Yeah. It was just a really weird story. 

The Friday story was edited in such a misleading way. The friend couple spent an hour and a half in high dudgeon about Sabrina''s transgressions, but then it was revealed that they were involved in the poly lifestyle too. It came off like they were jealous.  Then it was revealed that they were divorced. Why not just say so from the beginning?  

[TVbitch]

There were two interviews with that couple @GussieK. One long one before the trial and one short one after. In the long one the lady's hair is blonde and in the second one it is light purple. They were not divorced during the first interview. By the time of the second interview, they had gotten divorced but still hung out as friends. But yeah, I don't believe those ladies were ever truly friends, the way she was going on about taking delight in her appearance in court with  her hair being messy and needing a dye job and how that must bug her cuz she was always very shallow about her looks, etc.

[mythoughtis]

1 hour ago, TVbitch said:

There were two interviews with that couple @GussieK. One long one before the trial and one short one after. In the long one the lady's hair is blonde and in the second one it is light purple. They were not divorced during the first interview. By the time of the second interview, they had gotten divorced but still hung out as friends. But yeah, I don't believe those ladies were ever truly friends, the way she was going on about taking delight in her appearance in court with  her hair being messy and needing a dye job and how that must bug her cuz she was always very shallow about her looks, etc.

I missed the first several minutes Of the episode. So the victim was already deceased when I started watching.  I found this episode very sad and somehow disturbing.  Not in terms  of the physical details of the murder since I didn’t hear those- but in terms of what led to his death and afterwards.  

We got no interviews with his side of the family- just her sister. Did he have family? What did they think of the couples  lifestyle? Was he more or less controlling his wife into this open marriage as the other man  said?  Why does everyone think that people in ‘open’ marriages will ‘ follow the rules and get permission  for every affair’?  

The victim didn’t seem to understand that he ‘opened’  the door to the affair. 

The other couple didn’t seem to understand that the lifestyle may have been part of the problem.  It certainly was made out to be one of the reasons the interviewees divorced. 

Now, don’t get me wrong- I certainly do not think the victim should have been murdered. I certainly do think the two suspects deserved prison. 

afterwards, the widow and the murderer were two of the most immature people I’ve seen portrayed on this show, i realize he was in his 20s- but the idea that God is going to exalt you for commiting a murder doesn’t come from the New Testament.  They didn’t seem to understand that they had broken an actual Commandment.  I will never understand people who think murder is preferable to divorce. Especially people in open marriages that think a divorce will damage their reputation. What little of one they have. 

 

Eta - her sister was pretty clueless. How can you listen to all those tapes and not understand your sisters role in the murder? 

Edited December 31, 2018 by mythoughtis

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, mythoughtis said:

Did he have family?

Maybe they didn't want to be interviewed.  I'm always a little surprised by how many families are willing to speak on camera. 

1 hour ago, mythoughtis said:

Was he more or less controlling his wife into this open marriage as the other man  said?

Possibly. Although the sexual partners thought it was her idea. 

1 hour ago, mythoughtis said:

Why does everyone think that people in ‘open’ marriages will ‘ follow the rules and get permission  for every affair’?  The victim didn’t seem to understand that he ‘opened’  the door to the affair. 

People in marriages set rules for their relationships.  For many, that's monogamy.  For others, that's varying types of open relationships which range from complete openness to very specific situations where other parties can join in the marital relationships.  I'd argue this situation sounds like that.  The interactions were pre-arranged and all spouses were aware and in some way benefited from sexy play times.  It's very different from a secret emotional affair.  Having that kind of open relationship no more opens the door to an affair than any other kind of arrangement.

[OpalNightstream]

9 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

I missed the first several minutes Of the episode. So the victim was already deceased when I started watching.  I found this episode very sad and somehow disturbing.  Not in terms  of the physical details of the murder since I didn’t hear those- but in terms of what led to his death and afterwards.  

We got no interviews with his side of the family- just her sister. Did he have family? What did they think of the couples  lifestyle? Was he more or less controlling his wife into this open marriage as the other man  said?  Why does everyone think that people in ‘open’ marriages will ‘ follow the rules and get permission  for every affair’?  

The victim didn’t seem to understand that he ‘opened’  the door to the affair. 

The other couple didn’t seem to understand that the lifestyle may have been part of the problem.  It certainly was made out to be one of the reasons the interviewees divorced. 

Now, don’t get me wrong- I certainly do not think the victim should have been murdered. I certainly do think the two suspects deserved prison. 

afterwards, the widow and the murderer were two of the most immature people I’ve seen portrayed on this show, i realize he was in his 20s- but the idea that God is going to exalt you for commiting a murder doesn’t come from the New Testament.  They didn’t seem to understand that they had broken an actual Commandment.  I will never understand people who think murder is preferable to divorce. Especially people in open marriages that think a divorce will damage their reputation. What little of one they have. 

 

Eta - her sister was pretty clueless. How can you listen to all those tapes and not understand your sisters role in the murder? 

Oops I thought the sister was Sabrina’s mom!

[bubbls]

On 12/30/2018 at 10:11 PM, saber5055 said:

Oh, thanks @bubbls. I remember now they said Joey tripped over a guy wire, because I wondered where a guy wire was that someone would trip over it at all. A business could get sued for sure putting one where people can fall over it. I wonder where the car was in relation to the front door, and how dead Joey got behind the bushes. It sounded like he was nowhere near Olga. I'd like to see a map of the "crime scene." I think they said both were shot multiple times, but then it was also said they were shot like it was pro hit men. Shooting a ton load of bullets isn't exactly "professional." But what do I know!

 

I thought the same thing about the guy wire. I rewatched it. They think the second gunman was waiting in the car. Anyway, the detective has Joey running away from Olga and the door, although he’s not very clear about where Joey was. My impression from his description was Joey was a few feet behind Olga when she put her keys in. I’d like to see a map too!

 

The tree the detective was standing near was huge. Since I can’t remember when this all happened I suppose it’s possible it was freshly planted and supported by guy wires back then. I’m honestly surprised there wasn’t a lawsuit. Joey tripping over the guy wire is what enabled them to finish him off. Prior to that he was managing to run with shots (3 I think) to his body. Not that I see a suit as rational or even fair, but people sue over everything these days. 

Edited January 2, 2019 by bubbls

[saber5055]

I wonder how it's known  Joey fell over the wire. That's pretty wild speculation unless someone saw it happen. Or his foot was in the wire where he fell and was killed. Not that it matters I guess. But this show always puts in/leaves out details that are never cleared up.

I still want to know where that diamond ring is.

Edited January 2, 2019 by saber5055