S24.E14: Dutch Tears

[WendyCR72]

A week off before this one airs, on February 16, 2023:

Quote

A recently released convict goes looking for his arresting officer, Fin Tutuola. Carisi tries to get an arrest warrant without a positive suspect ID.

 

[Xeliou66]

Finally, a Fin centric episode!! Or at least I hope it is Fin centric, and not just promoted as such when it’s actually another St Olivia saves the world episode.

[dttruman]

On 2/7/2023 at 9:51 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Finally, a Fin centric episode!! Or at least I hope it is Fin centric, and not just promoted as such when it’s actually another St Olivia saves the world episode.

I 'd like to see Jennifer Esposito in this episode and have Benson take the week off.

[Xeliou66]

18 minutes ago, dttruman said:

I 'd like to see Jennifer Esposito in this episode and have Benson take the week off.

Only in our dreams will we see St Olivia take the week off. She has to be front and center in every episode. I would love to see Phoebe again as well but I haven’t heard anything about her coming back. I’m just hoping for a solid Fin centric episode, not an episode that promotes itself as Fin centric but is actually an Olivia saves the world hour.

[ScorpioSoul]

Hmm, so nothing about the statute of limitations? No DNA, no other witnesses? I guess I missed where this was a slam dunk.

[Diana Berry]

Thought the actor that portrayed Dutch was very good.  Fin was great.

[ScorpioSoul]

51 minutes ago, Diana Berry said:

Thought the actor that portrayed Dutch was very good.  Fin was great.

I agree. Very good casting for Dutch.

[The Wild Sow]

Dutch Tears (Prince Rupert's Drops) are a real thing!  Fascinating.

And what a good episode, with a hopeful ending.  Fin and Dutch were both great and no one was hurt or killed (well, except the bad guys got a little hurt.)

[mommalib]

Fin is such a great character and I'm glad he got the focus in this episode. And it was great when Fin made mention of Munch and what he's up to now.

Edited February 17, 2023 by mommalib

[Xeliou66]

Finally, a Fin episode that was actually Fin centric and delivered strong stuff!! Fin was awesome throughout, it was nice seeing him get an award at the start and he did great work.

Good detective work with Bruno and Fin - I like Bruno a lot and I really wish he would get added in to the main cast and I like his friendship with Fin, Bruno is the one good thing that’s come out of the whole Bronx storyline. Good legal stuff with Carisi also, I liked seeing Carisi in charge of the legal side without anyone bossing him around - they’ve done a good job writing Carisi, I’m hoping he’ll get a courtroom centric episode soon. Benson was fine for once, she took a backseat and the usual Benson worship was dialed back.

We got a Munch reference and update on where he is, that was GREAT!! I never thought we would hear about Munch again, it’s great to hear that he’s back in Baltimore and running his old bar that he owned in his Homicide days. Munch is a legendary character who’s sorely missed so it’s great to hear about him again.

I did have a few questions about the case and how strong it would be given the amount of time that had passed, but I have a feeling this perp assaulted a lot of people over the years and they would be able to build a case against him with his CO buddy flipping on him.

Agreed that the actor playing Dutch did a really good job.

Overall this was the best episode of the season - mainly because it was heavy on the characters I like the most (Fin, Carisi, Bruno), there was no Muncy who I can’t stand,  I did wonder where Velasco was, I guess he was working on other cases, and the Benson worship was dialed back a lot. It’s rare that modern day SVU does an episode that impresses me, but this was very good. 

[The Wild Sow]

2 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

there was no Muncy who I can’t stand,

Yeah, the show traded Kat and Rollins for her?  I may be a little biased though because "Muncy" is the name of my state's maximum security women's prison!

[MaryHedwig]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

Benson was fine for once, she took a backseat and the usual Benson worship was dialed back.

Who was watching Noah?

 

[EtheltoTillie]

6 hours ago, ScorpioSoul said:

Hmm, so nothing about the statute of limitations? No DNA, no other witnesses? I guess I missed where this was a slam dunk.

This bugged me too. I looked it up.  Apparently, there is no statute of limitations in NY for first-degree rape, which this was, since the rapist used force. I wish they had explained that. 

[ScorpioSoul]

1 hour ago, EtheltoTillie said:

This bugged me too. I looked it up.  Apparently, there is no statute of limitations in NY for first-degree rape, which this was, since the rapist used force. I wish they had explained that. 

Interesting. How do they define "force"? I mean they have said other cases were outside the time frame with force/injury. Just confusing.

[EtheltoTillie]

T

1 hour ago, ScorpioSoul said:

Interesting. How do they define "force"? I mean they have said other cases were outside the time frame with force/injury. Just confusing.

 This is the statute.  Force not defined.  Vaginal rape has a separate statute.

§ 130.50 Criminal sexual act in the first degree

Currentness

A person is guilty of criminal sexual act in the first degree when he or she engages in oral sexual conduct or anal sexual conduct with another person:

1. By forcible compulsion; or

2. Who is incapable of consent by reason of being physically helpless; or

3. Who is less than eleven years old; or

4. Who is less than thirteen years old and the actor is eighteen years old or more.

Criminal sexual act in the first degree is a class B felony

 

The change in SOL came about in 2006 so maybe older shows didn't deal with this?  SVU has been on so long. 

https://assembly.state.ny.us/Press/20060510/

[EtheltoTillie]

1 hour ago, ScorpioSoul said:

Interesting. How do they define "force"? I mean they have said other cases were outside the time frame with force/injury. Just confusing.

the definition of force appears elsewhere

 

8. “Forcible compulsion” means to compel by either:

a. use of physical force; or

b. a threat, express or implied, which places a person in fear of immediate death or physical injury to himself, herself or another person, or in fear that he, she or another person will immediately be kidnapped.

[gesundheit]

Well color me surprised. Best episode in a long time, how refreshing! Always wonderful to see Emmy!Nominee! Richard Cabral strutting his stuff (he does stunted and tortured so well), no irritating Muncy conflict, only appropriate amounts of Benson, and in a legit Fin episode for once, and a Munch reference complete with an update? Beautiful. 

[Frisky Wig]

I liked this episode. Richard Cabral did a great job. Also really nice to see prison rape be treated like the awful crime it is a not a joke. 

[TV Diva Queen]

9 hours ago, MaryHedwig said:

Who was watching Noah?

 

Liv probably dropped his off at his half brothers house.....LOL

when Fin was trapped in his house at gunpoint, my daughter says "hows he gonna get out of this"  I said "his wife is a cop, she will come home and save the day, even though I didn't see her name in the credits"  She says "I don't think she's a cop"  I said "yes, used to be partners with Danny Regan".  oops.  lol  

also - why was fin having troubles opening a pickle jar that has already been opened?  So dumb.  

 

. 

Edited February 17, 2023 by TV Diva Queen

[Packerbrewerbadger]

  Between Fin stumbling out of the bar and the pickle jars, I get the feeling that they’re setting the stage for Fin to have some debilitating disease that’s going to force him to retire😔. I hope I’m wrong. 

[853fisher]

I like Bruno, but it's like the writers have an order to make sure he says he's rich once an episode.  I promise to remember that element of his backstory if they promise to write it in a bit less clunkily when they must.  I mean, really, who talks like that?

4 hours ago, Packerbrewerbadger said:

  Between Fin stumbling out of the bar and the pickle jars, I get the feeling that they’re setting the stage for Fin to have some debilitating disease that’s going to force him to retire😔. I hope I’m wrong. 

For a few minutes, I thought that's where they were going in the opening scene.  it was just something about the style of the scene and the way Benson's monologue seemed to be dancing around the occasion.  I don't follow casting news and thought they were going for a sudden shocking retirement, with one last case for the road.  It feels like it's coming sooner or later - but hopefully later, with the rest of the cast seeming so much in flux.

Edited February 17, 2023 by 853fisher

[Diana Berry]

16 hours ago, MaryHedwig said:

Who was watching Noah?

 

He was probably with the stepford family 

8 hours ago, gesundheit said:

Well color me surprised. Best episode in a long time, how refreshing! Always wonderful to see Emmy!Nominee! Richard Cabral strutting his stuff (he does stunted and tortured so well), no irritating Muncy conflict, only appropriate amounts of Benson, and in a legit Fin episode for once, and a Munch reference complete with an update? Beautiful. 

I’m not familiar with him didn’t know he’s been nominated.  

2 hours ago, 853fisher said:

I like Bruno, but it's like the writers have an order to make sure he says he's rich once an episode.  I promise to remember that element of his backstory if they promise to write it in a bit less clunkily when they must.  I mean, really, who talks like that?

For a few minutes, I thought that's where they were going in the opening scene.  it was just something about the style of the scene and the way Benson's monologue seemed to be dancing around the occasion.  I don't follow casting news and thought they were going for a sudden shocking retirement, with one last case for the road.  It feels like it's coming sooner or later - but hopefully later, with the rest of the cast seeming so much in flux.

Oh no I hope they aren’t going that route.

[wknt3]

The Good:
Fin! We actually got a Fin-centric episode when we were promised one, and not just all about Benson with a veneer of Fin. I was more than a little worried during the opener, as it seemed we were going to get Fin filtered through Benson's self-help "empowerment" nonsense even if we did get him front and center, but they mostly played it straight down the middle. Hell we even got a Munch reference!
The guest cast. Pretty great performances all the way around, even the roles where there was a lot of temptation to chew the scenery.
Bruno. For the first time in quite awhile they have a new character that they seem to know what to do with. Not since Garland has it felt like they had a fully developed personality and a plan to start off with.
Carisi. They finally managed to use him to cover for missing squad members while still keeping it feeling that he was an ADA and not a cop, and he was pushing for a legally sufficient case without being antagonistic - one nice thing about taking an established member of the "family" and moving them to the ADA role is that they have finally (mostly) broken out of the SVU trope of making the DA's office the enemy instead of a separate, yet equally important representative of the people.
The COTW. A solid investigation without unnecessary twists and teamwork. It flowed nicely without being too predictable.
Benson. She actually let the team do their jobs and acted like an experienced leader who had worked with Fin for 2 decades.

The Bad:
The promo for next week looks like a suckfest and a half. Although it probably kept Mariska busy enough to not ruin this week's episode.
No effort I can recall to explain where Muncy and Velasco were and why Bruno was there and they weren't. I understand how even the newbies on entry level contracts need weeks off now with the budget cut to the marrow, but shouldn't we have gotten some exposition? And a least a nod to the Velasco subplot they seem to insist on giving us despite no one wanting it?

Overall this was an actual good episode. Even very good. And not just on a curve. An A- with a solid script and many of the flaws being a matter of forces beyond the control of the writers - Mariska's ego and influence, the show being on the air too long and having covered every story at least twice, and the budgets being tighter than an amoeba's anus. They should be proud of this one and look to it as a model if NBC ever does the right thing and announces a valedictory final season.

[Xeliou66]

On 2/17/2023 at 12:12 AM, The Wild Sow said:

Yeah, the show traded Kat and Rollins for her?  I may be a little biased though because "Muncy" is the name of my state's maximum security women's prison!

I can’t believe I’m saying it but Muncy is so bad she’s making me wish Rollins was there instead! It maybe because the actress who played Rollins is much better than the actress portraying Muncy, but as irritating as some of Rollins storylines were, at least Rollins wasn’t wooden and did seem to be competent when she wasn’t letting personal crap distract her. Muncy is terrible, lifeless and cringeworthy, she just doesn’t seem believable in the role. I disliked Kat as well though, she was extremely obnoxious and disrespectful the majority of the time, and I found her unbelievable as well, really glad they ditched her. I hope they turn things around with Muncy quickly but I doubt they will.

[wknt3]

On 2/17/2023 at 1:23 AM, MaryHedwig said:

Who was watching Noah?

Probably at least a dozen future recurring villains. Oh you mean who was supervising Noah? Who cares as long as he's not on screen?
 

On 2/17/2023 at 11:24 AM, Packerbrewerbadger said:

  Between Fin stumbling out of the bar and the pickle jars, I get the feeling that they’re setting the stage for Fin to have some debilitating disease that’s going to force him to retire😔. I hope I’m wrong. 

Nah. Ice-T has stated publicly he's there until the end, even if he's spending more and more time on the beach every year and he's pretty central to the brand still. The whole thing about him stumbling and barely able to walk was to explain why he didn't simply kick Dutch's ass and why he didn't notice something was off. And the pickle jar was all about setting up the metaphor at the end and giving Fin a reason to share a little bit instead of just coming out and telling us without any reason. You probably are just a bit confused as it's good writing and competent storytelling and it's been a long time since the show worried about that kind of thing.

Edited February 19, 2023 by wknt3

[MaryHedwig]

On 2/17/2023 at 12:54 PM, 853fisher said:

like Bruno, but it's like the writers have an order to make sure he says he's rich once an episode.  I promise to remember that element of his backstory if they promise to write it in a bit less clunkily when they must.  I mean, really, who talks like that?

...especially in front of a victim. Bruno, keep quiet about your nest egg, or how are you going to know if the people around you are really your friends? Didn't your parents teach you anything?

[psychfan]

I’m really glad this episode had that little thing about Munch. 

[lawrbk]

2 hours ago, psychfan said:

I’m really glad this episode had that little thing about Munch. 

I just wish Fin hadn’t said ‘last I heard’. I like the idea they’re still in communication. And fitting timing given the news that Richard Belzer just passed. 

[The Wild Sow]

55 minutes ago, lawrbk said:

I just wish Fin hadn’t said ‘last I heard’. I like the idea they’re still in communication. And fitting timing given the news that Richard Belzer just passed. 

I wonder if they did those Munch references because they knew he was ill?  One of my favorite actors and favorite characters - as well as my (several-years-older) Birthday Twin.  RIP Mr. Belzer - you will be missed!

[853fisher]

On 2/17/2023 at 6:04 PM, wknt3 said:

...and the budgets being tighter than an amoeba's anus.

Get the heck out of here!  This is especially heinous.  You can bet I'll be stealing this. ;)

[tennisgurl]

Color me shocked, we finally got a real Fin episode that wasn't a stealth Olivia love fest! That was a great showcase for Fin, he did a great job throughout and its awesome seeing him get recognized at the start of the episode. He got a ton of great material here, he was great with Dutch and doing his cop stuff, with that perfect mix of snark and being professional. I even liked his scenes with Olivia, I think that she is always at her best with Fin. There is a lot less obvious Olivia workshop with they have scenes together, they have a very natural vibe of two people who have known and respected each other for years. I am so glad that Fin got some real time to shine here. We even got a Munch reference and update! I never saw that coming but I was so excited to hear it!

The guest cast was great, especially the actor playing Dutch, who was excellent. The poor guy, I am glad that his story ended on a hopeful note. 

I thought for a minute that we were getting a cliché story where Fin's old vice partner was corrupt, but I am glad that they went in a more interesting direction. The case was very interesting and very SVU, a CO letting his old buddy rape prisoners in cahoots with his wife is really disturbing, what a bunch of scumbags. I am glad that the show showed rape in prison as a terrible crime and not as a joke or a threat the cops give to bad guys, like they have done in the past. 

I like Bruno and he and Fin were really good together, but some of his dialogue is really bad. Last week it was him ranting to the poor guy who saw his fiancé get raped about how he thinks civilization peaked in the 90s, and now humble bragging about being rich to Dutch, its like the show is going for quirky but landing on weirdly unprofessional. People going through rough shit don't want to hear about your rich person angsty hot takes. 

Edited February 20, 2023 by tennisgurl

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 2/17/2023 at 9:59 AM, gesundheit said:

Well color me surprised. Best episode in a long time, how refreshing! Always wonderful to see Emmy!Nominee! Richard Cabral strutting his stuff (he does stunted and tortured so well), no irritating Muncy conflict, only appropriate amounts of Benson, and in a legit Fin episode for once, and a Munch reference complete with an update? Beautiful. 

Omg, thank you for naming the actor.  I know him from the movie "Breaking In".  The movie did not get good reviews, but I loved it and saw it (at home) twice.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Ms Blue Jay

[gesundheit]

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Omg, thank you for naming the actor.  I know him from the movie "Breaking In".  The movie did not get good reviews, but I loved it and saw it (at home) twice.

Yes! Not exactly a cinematic masterpiece, but a hell of a lot of fun.

 

He got to fully show his range in the American Crime anthology series, he was so so good in those.

[Zaffy]

I can't say I liked this one.. 
The case was interesting and very sad, but for once we had a happy end.
But the dialogues were bad and the acting and directing not as good either.

I really like Bruno.. I think he is one of the best things happened to SVU. Ever.

[SummerDreams]

So Amanda left to become a teacher and she works nights so she can't attend Fin's event. That makes sense 🤣

And where was Muncy? Has she taken the boot yet?