S02.E15: A Date to Remember

[iMonrey]

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Was Flower alive when the book or the movie came out (both 1970)?

No. Flower died in the 60s, per the pilot episode.

Quote

How was Thor keeping them out, though? Can't they just pass through the closed door?

True, they could circumvent him and go through the walls, but he's imposing enough to stop them from doing so. After all, he can touch them. I've also noticed that the ghosts tend to use the doors and doorways even though they can go through the walls. Force of habit, no doubt.

[januaryman]

Pete's comedy routine cracked me up more than anything, and poor Jay couldn't see any of it. 

I still think Flower is the weakest ghost (through no fault of the actress) but she does get some funny lines.

[foxfreakinmulder]

21 hours ago, stonehaven said:

This really is a great show. It doesn't just make me chuckle , it makes me laugh out loud, a rare thing for me these days, with modern sitcoms. It really is my Must See TV..

Yes, I agree 100%. It's my favorite sitcom on now and I love that it doesn't have a laugh track! I'm in for the long haul so I hope we get lots and lots of seasons :-)

[Mabinogia]

I fall more and more in love with Jay every episode. Sam has no clue how lucky she is to have a man who will not only postpone his Valentine's day to cook for people who can't eat, but will then TWICE eat something that, from his reaction, tasted even worse than it sounded AND will sit through a serenade and improv routine he can neither see nor hear, so basically, spend an hour or so sitting quietly staring at nothing. That man is a dreamboat.

Thor and Flower's story made me cry while the battle for Isaac made me laugh out loud. Hetty and Trevor's pillow talk was so on brand for them. lol I'm really digging their dynamic. It is unexpected but fun. 

Flower is the weakest of the ghosts for me, personality wise, so I'm glad they are fleshing out her character more. I like the idea that she was a law school student and ended up a stoned hippy ghosts after a tragedy. She tuned in, turned on and dropped out big time. I also have a huge soft spot for Thor so I'm always happy to see him happy. 

I love Sass's love of drama. When you've been stuck on one piece of land for centuries I'm sure things can get pretty boring. There are only so many times you can stair out a window and ponder whether or not fish have nightmares. I mean, clearly they do. Cod especially. Poor Cod wake up in the middle of the night imagining a giant, pee stinking Viking cutting off their balls for a snack. Oh the horror!!!!! Wait, do fish have balls... (wonders off to the nearest window to ponder such a question. If only I had a ghost to ponder with. Or Jay, I'd ponder with Jay any day).

[eel21788]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I've also noticed that the ghosts tend to use the doors and doorways even though they can go through the walls. Force of habit, no doubt.

We know it hurts to walk through another person. I would think walking through a wall would have at least some degree of discomfort, too. It definitely makes more sense to walk through an opening if it is available.

[Annber03]

22 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

I fall more and more in love with Jay every episode. Sam has no clue how lucky she is to have a man who will not only postpone his Valentine's day to cook for people who can't eat, but will then TWICE eat something that, from his reaction, tasted even worse than it sounded AND will sit through a serenade and improv routine he can neither see nor hear, so basically, spend an hour or so sitting quietly staring at nothing. That man is a dreamboat.

This. All of this. If I ever get married, I want my husband to be like Jay :D. 

[eel21788]

20 hours ago, possibilities said:

That really only leaves Pete, Alberta, Sassapis, the cholera folks, and the remaining shed ghosts who Nigel used to live with.

You left out Crash.

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

Would it be utterly ridiculous to put “watch Ghosts on CBS, so you know who your competition is” on my Bumble profile? Every week I watch Jay being the world’s sweetest husband while I eat chips and mumble about needing me a freak like that. 

[shura]

49 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

I fall more and more in love with Jay every episode. Sam has no clue how lucky she is to have a man who will not only postpone his Valentine's day to cook for people who can't eat, but will then TWICE eat something that, from his reaction, tasted even worse than it sounded AND will sit through a serenade and improv routine he can neither see nor hear, so basically, spend an hour or so sitting quietly staring at nothing. That man is a dreamboat.

I was thinking it’s a good thing Jay has seen evidence that the ghosts do exist, such as the writing on the fogged mirror, Trevor’s texts to his sister, info Sam claims the ghosts provided turning out to be true, etc.  Because his senses are telling him that he is standing in an empty room where he has served dinner to an empty table and his crazy wife is talking to what very well may be voices in her head, John Nash-style.  And even with the evidence, he’s got to go at least half of the time “oh come on, you are making this up, aren’t you?”  Which Sam does do, like when she was pretending that Thor was telling her that women are not allowed to eat ram’s balls so it has to be Jay.

Sam really does need to start saying no to the ghosts, they are totally taking advantage of her.  Not only had she drop everything and do Thor’s date twice, she also seemed to be on call for Nigel’s tea reception and who knows what else.  Their acting like children demanding things from her may be cute and amusing a couple of times, but I am not sure I want to keep seeing the ghosts being totally inconsiderate of her and Sam being a pushover like this.

And fish do not have nightmares.  As a poet once said, “it’s okay to eat fish ‘cause they don’t have any feeeeeeelings”.  No feelings, no nightmares.

[nora1992]

Is there an I want to marry Jay! thread?  It seems there are quite a few of us on this thread.

What does Nigel have in store for Hetty?  That is a rivalry I didn’t foresee.  But Trevor could be a good double agent for  Hetty, unless the secret gets out soon.

[Skooma]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

No. Flower died in the 60s, per the pilot episode.

Like I indicated in my first post, "the 60's" as people refer to that era today were not "the 60's" mathematically.  They basically started around 1965 through the end of 1972 when Nixon got re-elected sweeping 49 of the 50 states.  (When Watergate broke people in Mass. proudly drove around with bumper stickers on their cars reading "Don't blame us!"  Hah).

I really think that this obvious "Love Story" shout-out (it was an exact thing complete with law school so no way it actually happened to Flower) was a writer's inside joke that could in future lead to all sorts of transplanted memories with Flower.  Which would be pretty funny.  Like next up she could replace Jack Nicholson's or Dennis Hopper's characters in "Easy Rider" in that scene around the campfire talking about aliens.

[Annber03]

17 minutes ago, nora1992 said:

What does Nigel have in store for Hetty?  That is a rivalry I didn’t foresee.  But Trevor could be a good double agent for  Hetty, unless the secret gets out soon.

Ohhhhhhhhh. I LIKE this idea :D! That could be fun.

30 minutes ago, shura said:

And fish do not have nightmares.  As a poet once said, “it’s okay to eat fish ‘cause they don’t have any feeeeeeelings”.  No feelings, no nightmares.

Thanks to this part of your post, you've now put this song in my head: 

 

[possibilities]

2 hours ago, eel21788 said:

You left out Crash.

I actually did think of him, but I left him out because I think she show has forgotten about him. There's the girl in the attic who wakes up once a year, too, I guess.

Edited February 18, 2023 by possibilities

[Artsda]

All of Thor's comments about The Bachelor were hilarious.  

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

Does anyone feel like the fact that Trevor wants pillow talk—essentially an emotional connection—indicate that he has real, actual feelings for Hetty? I continue to ship it. 

[christie]

Question: in the beginning when Sam is typing and Alberta, Pete and Sasappis are reading the text over her shoulder, how does Sasappis know that an apostrophe is needed? Does he read English, when and how did he learn (this includes grammar as well)? It took me out of it. Now, if Pete had mentioned the apostrophe, that would have made sense (I expect Pete to know when to use an apostrophe).

Edited February 18, 2023 by christie

[possibilities]

He's had hundreds of years of exposure. Surely he picked it up along the way.

[christie]

Speaking yes but reading? How would he be exposed to books that he can read? Now, I'm not American and I don't know a lot about Native Americans, do the Lenape have some sort of written word? Since Sasappis is a storyteller, I assume they have an oral tradition (where stories/history are passed down from one generation to the next) but do they also have something written/drawn? 

[Driad]

Sasappis has been in the house much longer than he was alive.  He is quite bright, and as a storyteller he must have an excellent memory.  Maybe at some point (after he learned English) he saw one of the other ghosts reading something (maybe a Living had left a newspaper around, or a book open), asked about it, and got lessons in reading.

[possibilities]

He could also have looked over the shoulder of a living resident as they read a book, for practice.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, christie said:

Question: in the beginning when Sam is typing and Alberta, Pete and Sasappis are reading the text over her shoulder, how does Sasappis know that an apostrophe is needed? Does he read English, when and how did he learn (this includes grammar as well)? It took me out of it. Now, if Pete had mentioned the apostrophe, that would have made sense (I expect Pete to know when to use an apostrophe).

As a storyteller who had mastered current American English even before Sam and Jay moved into the Woodstone (probably by listening to caretakers, nurses, groundskeepers, etc.), I can easily imagine 19th Century (or earlier?) Sass watching children of the house being tutored in handwriting and grammar.

 

Edited February 18, 2023 by shapeshifter

[phalange]

6 hours ago, Skooma said:

Like I indicated in my first post, "the 60's" as people refer to that era today were not "the 60's" mathematically.  They basically started around 1965 through the end of 1972 when Nixon got re-elected sweeping 49 of the 50 states. 

Even still, Flower really did die in the actual 60s. At the beginning of the Dumb Deaths episode when it flashes back to her death, it says 1969, so she would've missed the book/movie release by a year. It's totally possible the writers took inspiration from the movie for her backstory, but Flower wouldn't have had the chance to see it.

There's no reason to believe Flower couldn't have gotten into law school, IMO. She's a stoner, but she isn't lazy or stupid. She played on the basketball team in high school, so she has the ability to work hard if she wants to. Plus, the death of her fiance really gives context to everything else, like why she joined a cult. Cults don't usually target happy, stable people; they go after vulnerable people, and who better than a grieving young woman who just lost her fiance, quit school, and feels lost? 

Edited February 18, 2023 by phalange

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

9 hours ago, christie said:

Speaking yes but reading? How would he be exposed to books that he can read? Now, I'm not American and I don't know a lot about Native Americans, do the Lenape have some sort of written word? Since Sasappis is a storyteller, I assume they have an oral tradition (where stories/history are passed down from one generation to the next) but do they also have something written/drawn? 

The Lenape did not have a written language, you’re correct. However, wealthy children in the 19th and early 20th centuries would not have gone to school (unless they were boys who would’ve gone to boarding school in their teens), so residents of the manor would’ve had English tutors for about a hundred years, and it’s easy to imagine that the daily lessons were the most interesting things happening at the time, so Sasappis could’ve sat in on them. We’ve seen him read before too, like with Todd and Alberta’s journal. 

[Mabinogia]

7 hours ago, phalange said:

Even still, Flower really did die in the actual 60s. At the beginning of the Dumb Deaths episode when it flashes back to her death, it says 1969, so she would've missed the book/movie release by a year. It's totally possible the writers took inspiration from the movie for her backstory, but Flower wouldn't have had the chance to see it.

I prefer the idea that the book was based on her story rather than she's misremembering. While it could be cute to have her insert herself into various events of the 60s it takes away from any emotional investment in her if we can't believe anything she says. 

1 hour ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

However, wealthy children in the 19th and early 20th centuries would not have gone to school (unless they were boys who would’ve gone to boarding school in their teens), so residents of the manor would’ve had English tutors for about a hundred years, and it’s easy to imagine that the daily lessons were the most interesting things happening at the time, so Sasappis could’ve sat in on them.

I assume Hetty, as least when she was very young, had a nanny/tutor who taught her to read and write and I love the idea of her sitting at her little desk with Sass and Thor on either side of her. Thor complaining about being there while Sass is absorbing every word and Isaac is pacing behind the nanny pointing out all the errors in her history lessons. 

[Paloma]

On 2/16/2023 at 10:10 PM, shapeshifter said:

On 2/16/2023 at 9:24 PM, phalange said:

When Thor said it would be okay because they're already dead, I was like, that's a good point, and then I remembered that the ghosts could get sucked off at any time so Flower's fear is still a possibility.

——except at least Thor will never leave.

I'm sure this was mentioned in an earlier episode, but I forget--why can't Thor get sucked off?

[shapeshifter]

7 minutes ago, Paloma said:

I'm sure this was mentioned in an earlier episode, but I forget--why can't Thor get sucked off?

I just said that Thor can't get sucked off because he wouldn't want to leave Flower, and it seems being sucked off requires being at peace with leaving everything. 

But maybe this was mentioned in an earlier episode and it influenced my conclusion? Maybe the Viking funeral episode?

[iMonrey]

Quote

I'm sure things can get pretty boring. There are only so many times you can stair out a window and ponder whether or not fish have nightmares.

Exhibit A: Ant watching. They really play these things off for laughs, but there's also an undercurrent of sadness about it if you think too much about it. Trapped in one place for eternity with nothing to do and having to amuse yourself with the most mundane things.

Quote

I assume Hetty, as least when she was very young, had a nanny/tutor who taught her to read and write and I love the idea of her sitting at her little desk with Sass and Thor on either side of her. 

Good point! That's definitely how Sass might have learned to read. It might also be how he and Thor learned English. I don't know if Isaac would have bothered trying to teach them. We never hear Isaac speak Norwegian or Lanape. 

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

My headcanon is that Thor and Sas are both fluent in Old Norse and Munsee, then learned Dutch from the new colonists, but when New York was taken over by the English, Thor gave up because he couldn’t be bothered with a fourth language, but Sas, passionate storyteller that he is, continued to adapt. 

[kwnyc]

Does anyone else think Nigel is a passive-aggressive twit? Too bad there is only one queer ghost, because Isaac doesn't have another potential love interest (except for Nigel's lying ex).

I find him repellent, but then I have Irish roots (Hetty would HATE me!) ;-)

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Ant watching. They really play these things off for laughs, but there's also an undercurrent of sadness about it if you think too much about it. Trapped in one place for eternity with nothing to do and having to amuse yourself with the most mundane things.

Maybe to the writers, our TV watching (and then obsessing about online) is equivalent to the the ghosts watching ants.



 

 

55 minutes ago, kwnyc said:

Does anyone else think Nigel is a passive-aggressive twit?

Nigel seems like one of those characters who the writers are considering either rehabilitating into joining the group or doing away with.

[possibilities]

If you're going to be petty, Hetty is the one to do it with. But I think the feud paints both Nigel and Hetty in a bad light. 

I really do find the childishness of the ghosts annoying. But maybe that's the point. They can't ascend because they need to develop more before doing so.

Edited February 18, 2023 by possibilities

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

I really do find the childishness of the ghosts annoying. But maybe that's the point. They can't ascend because they need to develop more before doing so.

The Iliad references the notion of mortality forcing us to grow and adapt the way that the gods can’t. Madeline Millar (in Circe) specifically calls the gods childish for demanding that they be entertained at all times, because work, survival, and change have no bearing on their lives, so they are eternal toddlers, adorable or throwing tantrums as they feel like it. Our mortality makes us aware of what is truly precious in life, and immortals envy us our growth and adaptability. Since the Joes have specifically referenced the Iliad before, I think the childishness of the ghosts is a deliberate reflection on that concept. 

[Trey]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Nigel seems like one of those characters who the writers are considering either rehabilitating into joining the group or doing away with.

I don't know if they'll do away with him altogether but I really don't see him living in the house for too long.  I hope he won't, anyway.

[Chit Chat]

I actually liked it that Hetty and Nigel didn't make up right away.  They're both jealous of the attention Isaac gives the other, and that's not usually something that can be smoothed over that quickly.  Hopefully they'll work it out at some point, but I think there's some good comedic material there with a little bit of tension between the two.  I love how Hetty & Isaac have a "date" every week to sit by the window and ponder life!

[Annber03]

30 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

I actually liked it that Hetty and Nigel didn't make up right away.  They're both jealous of the attention Isaac gives the other, and that's not usually something that can be smoothed over that quickly. 

It's especially interesting to see that reaction from Hetty's end, given she was the one who kept encouraging Isaac to finally tell Nigel how he felt about him. I like the idea that she's conflicted over being happy for them while also missing her friendship with him*. Nigel, meanwhile, has a history of feeling jealous at the idea of Isaac's focus being elsewhere, when he believed Jenkins' rumor that Isaac and Thor were a thing, so his reaction fits on that level. 

*I also wonder if some of her conflicted feelings aren't somewhat connected to her current thing going on with Trevor. Sure, they're treating this as a fling, but perhaps she's starting to genuinely feel something for him, and maybe if this turns out to be nothing more than a fling, she's lost this potential connection with Trevor. And now she's potentially losing her best friend as well. She's clearly got a fear of being lonely, and I think that's fueling some of her behavior here, too.

As for Nigel himself, I've always liked him and his relationship with Isaac, myself. But yes, they clearly still have a lot of differences to hash out, and Nigel seems a lot more comfortable in himself than Isaac does, and has more experience than Isaac does, which is clearly the biggest hurdle for them to work through. So I can definitely see that having an effect on their living together, be it in the same mansion in general or potentially sharing a room someday. 

[eel21788]

On 2/18/2023 at 12:55 AM, phalange said:

There's no reason to believe Flower couldn't have gotten into law school

Women going to law school in the '60s was a rarity. My mother started law school in 1972, and she was one of four women in her class.

Edited February 19, 2023 by eel21788

[KarenX]

6 hours ago, kwnyc said:

Does anyone else think Nigel is a passive-aggressive twit? Too bad there is only one queer ghost, because Isaac doesn't have another potential love interest (except for Nigel's lying ex).

I find him repellent, but then I have Irish roots (Hetty would HATE me!) ;-)

I was surprised he was acting like that. He is usually direct about what he wants and he’s been very gracious and patient about Isaac’s hangups and insecurities.

Being jealous of Hetty didn’t make sense. 

[Ms Lark]

On 2/17/2023 at 7:19 PM, Mabinogia said:

Wait, do fish have balls...

Not that many of them dance.

 

On 2/17/2023 at 7:42 PM, Annber03 said:

Sam has no clue how lucky she is

I just wish she'd stop telling him big fat lies about what the Ghosts are saying. It's kind of funny at the time, but it's usually to benefit herself. Tends to tarnish her character somewhat.

[Chit Chat]

1 hour ago, KarenX said:

Being jealous of Hetty didn’t make sense. 

Looks like he wants Isaac all to himself, which is very selfish on his part.  Hearing that Hetty & Isaac enjoy their "ponder" time together, he couldn't be gracious and allow them that, instead, he had to literally put himself between them.  Isaac may start to resent him if he tries to separate him from his friends.  

[Mabinogia]

16 minutes ago, Ms Lark said:

Not that many of them dance.

You've clearly not watched the documentary Bedknobs and Broomsticks. lol

17 minutes ago, Ms Lark said:

I just wish she'd stop telling him big fat lies about what the Ghosts are saying. It's kind of funny at the time, but it's usually to benefit herself. Tends to tarnish her character somewhat.

I agree with this. Many of us have acknowledged what an amazing husband, and just human being, Jay is for all that he has done for the ghosts based purely on trusting that his wife is telling him the truth, which she is not. I know it is played for laughs and so I laugh it off, but trust is a huge deal for me, so it hurts me to keep watching her breaking his trust for her own gain. Sure, it was funny, but I think the show could survive without that bit of humor. They mostly have an amazing relationship, but the lying does bug me. 

[Annber03]

6 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

Looks like he wants Isaac all to himself, which is very selfish on his part.  Hearing that Hetty & Isaac enjoy their "ponder" time together, he couldn't be gracious and allow them that, instead, he had to literally put himself between them.  Isaac may start to resent him if he tries to separate him from his friends.  

Yeah, it makes sense that Isaac wouldn't have seen an issue with Nigel wanting to join him and Hetty on their outing. He'd been so eager to have him become part of his group of friends, and had made that speech to Nigel at the beginning of the season about how important it is that he accept his friends, if they're going to be together. So he's probably thinking that Nigel was taking his words to heart when he wanted to join them. That would also explain why he was so quick to defend him to Hetty when he found out about her setting up that other party. 

But yes, if and when he starts to see that this has become a genuine point of conflict for them, I'll be very curious to see how he responds to that, and who, if anyone, he sides with. Either he tries to play peacemaker, which I could totally see him doing, or he gets freaked out about having to choose and kinda backs off from both of them, or he picks a side, and that just adds a whole new level of conflict. Any one of the three options could lead to some interesting developments with those three, and the group in general. 

[shapeshifter]

After reading the last few posts, I realize Nigel and Isaac, despite having known each other for hundreds of years, hadn't really thought through the idea of Nigel moving into Woodstone Manor, and hadn't really talked about it at all. 

I can't recall: Does Sam know Nigel is now sleeping on the couch in the library? 

And now that I've typed that last question I realize that a lover sleeping on a couch in the library (or living room) doesn't typically bode well for the relationship.

Maybe Jay will fix up the attic for them.

[Annber03]

24 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I can't recall: Does Sam know Nigel is now sleeping on the couch in the library? 

If she does, she has yet to comment on it. Either that conversation and discovery happened off screen, or she still doesn't know :p.

[iMonrey]

Where would Jay have gotten rams testicles anyway? It's not like you can just go into a grocery store and buy them.

Quote

My headcanon is that Thor and Sas are both fluent in Old Norse and Munsee,

Munsee? Is that one of the 13 dialects of the Lenape, represented on the old tree? 😉

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

Munsee is the language of the northern tribe of the Lenape, Unami is the language of the down-river Lenape. Munsee is still spoken by modern Lenape people, but sadly the last fluent Unami speaker died in 2002, although tribal linguists and historians are attempting to revive the language through archival recordings. 

[eel21788]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Where would Jay have gotten rams testicles anyway? It's not like you can just go into a grocery store and buy them.

I don' know about NY but in rancher country you can get them from a butcher.

[Chit Chat]

12 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

After reading the last few posts, I realize Nigel and Isaac, despite having known each other for hundreds of years, hadn't really thought through the idea of Nigel moving into Woodstone Manor, and hadn't really talked about it at all. 

It took all of these years for Isaac to admit to feelings for Nigel.  That was a huge step for him.  Yes, he's taking things at a glacial pace, but I think it's taking him a while to truly understand that same sex couples are not outside the norm like it was in his time.  Even with Sam's encouragement about it, it's going to take time for Isaac to feel comfortable with the relationship.  When something is ingrained in you, it's difficult to just flip a switch and go the opposite direction. Nigel seems more comfortable with them as a couple, but maybe he learned by observing other livings that he could be more open with his feelings. 

12 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

I know it is played for laughs and so I laugh it off, but trust is a huge deal for me, so it hurts me to keep watching her breaking his trust for her own gain.

It would be funny if Jay started talking to Thor about this and maybe he could make the lights flicker whenever Sam lies about what the ghosts are saying.  Maybe she'd quit doing that to Jay. 

[shapeshifter]

12 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

It took all of these years for Isaac to admit to feelings for Nigel.  That was a huge step for him.  Yes, he's taking things at a glacial pace, but I think it's taking him a while to truly understand that same sex couples are not outside the norm like it was in his time.  Even with Sam's encouragement about it, it's going to take time for Isaac to feel comfortable with the relationship.  When something is ingrained in you, it's difficult to just flip a switch and go the opposite direction. Nigel seems more comfortable with them as a couple, but maybe he learned by observing other livings that he could be more open with his feelings.

Oh, yes, of course! All of this👆 and more! 
But I was just referring to the logistics of adding another ghost👻person to the Woodstone house.🤣

[enduringforce]

On 2/16/2023 at 6:58 PM, greekmom said:

I have to say this one was the weaker episode so far. 

I agree. I really only liked the Thor/Flower part and the Flower backstory about her losing a love to a sickness and then it seems she did as many in the 60s did, she dropped acid and dropped out. Thor says he is already dead so that can't happen, but couldn't the univers allow him to “get sucked off” which would be 'death' to a ghost because not all go at once and there would be those left behind. 

Sas is really going to love the Heatty/Nigel thing as he loves drama, it really makes his afterlife fun.

But Jay and Sam were boring in this episode. 

Edited February 20, 2023 by enduringforce

[eel21788]

13 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Does Sam know Nigel is now sleeping on the couch in the library? 

12 hours ago, Annber03 said:

If she does, she has yet to comment on it. Either that conversation and discovery happened off screen, or she still doesn't know :p.

Is that the same couch where they all watch TV? I can see that getting pretty inconvenient.