Gymnastics

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

And watching the 1996 team competition was a breath of fresh air in terms of the commentary. John Tesh was trying to inject some drama, but nowhere near as bad as you-know-who, and Tim and Elfi were much more restrained as well. Then the last rotation happened and the drama and schmaltz went into overdrive, and they've been trying to recapture that ever since.

It was fun to see that competition again, though. I had forgotten the "ok they've got this in the bag, just need a decent vault from Dominique -- oops she keeps landing on her butt" part of the story.

I'm kind of amazed they managed to be so restrained since at the time watching it my mom and I were so not restrained. Lots of screaming, excitement and yelling. They were doing so well but didn't want to get too excited because things had always gone wrong before. Either a fall or mistake or questionable scoring. Three of them were my favorites Shannon Miller, Dominique Dawes and Dominique Moceanu. Getting to the last rotation all they needed was one decent vault from Dominique and of course she landed on her butt twice. Sure there was still one more girl to go. But then not only did she fall she got an injury. To be that close! To be doing so well! Only to blow it at the end. After cheering on the team through so many Olympics it looked like once again another lost. But then she did it! Only for a second it but its all that mattered. My mom and I were so excited! How we didn't end up having a heart attack by the end of that night I don't know. 

Its funny though how re-watching some you still feel exactly how you did at the time and others you don't. Re-watching the Beijing women's team gymnastics I was way more chilled this time at the inflated up Chinese scores. Even kind of laughing at the announcers who were so shocked and confused. The guy even wondering what's going on. When the Chinese and American gymnast had similar mistakes but the American's score got the hit. Ah, Dude, their scores are being inflated. They even seemed so certain at one point when there was a call from the technical woman and then she walked over to talk to them. Then shocked when nothing changed. Sure at the time I was totally pissed. But twelve years later I was pretty chilled watching it. Except for ties because that's still stupid. If its a tie then they both get whatever place that puts them. That's what tie means! None of this split crap.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Its funny though how re-watching some you still feel exactly how you did at the time and others you don't.

This is true. Watching the '08, '12, and '16 airings these past couple of weeks, I've just been like "ok". But watching '96 again was just as OMG as before. Except no one was saying OMG back then, I don't think XD

[CeeBeeGee]

2 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Re-watching the Beijing women's team gymnastics I was way more chilled this time at the inflated up Chinese scores. Even kind of laughing at the announcers who were so shocked and confused. The guy even wondering what's going on. When the Chinese and American gymnast had similar mistakes but the American's score got the hit. Ah, Dude, their scores are being inflated. They even seemed so certain at one point when there was a call from the technical woman and then she walked over to talk to them. Then shocked when nothing changed. Sure at the time I was totally pissed. But twelve years later I was pretty chilled watching it. Except for ties because that's still stupid. If its a tie then they both get whatever place that puts them. That's what tie means! None of this split crap.

They tried their hardest to cook the scores in the All-Around as well--Nastia and Shawn did not get nearly the scores they deserved--but those two were just too good. Fucking ridiculous though. And it has unfortunate consequences--I think it was during the London AA final, they'd mentioned that the Chinese coaches had gotten bonuses after Beijing from the Chinese federation and after the London team final they demanded them back. And that team had two returnees from Beijing, He Kexin and Deng Linlin! How could they have gone from first to fourth? It's because your expectations were too high after Beijing. (Demanding the bonus back is way uncool though.)

And yes, ties fucking suck. I'm still angry about the broken tie in the AA final in London. Although I was thinking--the whole time leading up the final event, floor, Tim and Elfie were speculating if Ally was going to throw that punch-front-layout at the end of her first pass--she'd left it out during the team final. And again, this time, she left it out--but if she'd included it, she would've beaten Mustafina.

[ML89]

4 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

But yeah, I do remember that thing from '92. As I recall, they did a bunch of those sort of videos for different sports set to popular songs and actually released a "Barcelona Gold" soundtrack album (which I got, just for the Freddie Mercury/Montserrat Caballe "Barcelona" song).

‘Higher, Baby” for the Dream Team. I remember there was a puff piece about Olga Korbut, who made me a gymnastics fan, to “For A Dancer” by Jackson Browne. 

[Jeddah]

1 hour ago, CeeBeeGee said:

And yes, ties fucking suck. I'm still angry about the broken tie in the AA final in London. Although I was thinking--the whole time leading up the final event, floor, Tim and Elfie were speculating if Ally was going to throw that punch-front-layout at the end of her first pass--she'd left it out during the team final. And again, this time, she left it out--but if she'd included it, she would've beaten Mustafina.

I still think about! Why didn’t she put it in for the AA? She didn’t need it for the team final and she had the scary crash in warm up, so it made sense to leave it out. But why not in the AA? And then to lose on a tiebreaker! I can see why that motivated her for the next four years. I just love Aly and I wish she were tied with Shannon Miller for number of Olympic medals. I guess that doesn’t really matter though, because I’m sure Simone will destroy that record in Tokyo.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Jeddah

[Harry24]

I just watched the Beijing AA final last night and am so interested to hear that there was general agreement that the scores were fudged.

What surprised me the most, though, was how Nastia-obsessed the coverage was.  (I almost wrote Nastia-focused, but, seriously, it got to be stalker-esque.). The camera was CONSTANTLY on her in between routines.  I could somewhat understand this if she was the only American in contention, but there was Shawn Johnson, equally, if not more, telegenic and only slightly less likely to take home the gold.  What was that about, I wonder?  I assume it had to have been a conscious decision on the part of the NBC broadcast team, but I'm damned if I understand why.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Harry24

[Growsonwalls]

3 hours ago, Harry24 said:

I just watched the Beijing AA final last night and am so interested to hear that there was general agreement that the scores were fudged.

What surprised me the most, though, was how Nastia-obsessed the coverage was.  (I almost wrote Nastia-focused, but, seriously, it got to be stalker-esque.). The camera was CONSTANTLY on her in between routines.  I could somewhat understand this if she was the only American in contention, but there was Shawn Johnson, equally, if not more, telegenic and only slightly less likely to take home the gold.  What was that about, I wonder?  I assume it had to have been a conscious decision on the part of the NBC broadcast team, but I'm damned if I understand why.

Nastia's father was Valeri Liukin who was considered the top gymnastics coach in the country at the time. She got a lot of attention and endorsements. She was Marta's favorite. She was Nelli Kim's favorite. If there was a golden girl of the Olympics it was her.

Personally my favorite gymnast of that quad was Cheng Fei. Not the most consistent gymnast but so much power for such a slight gymnast.

[CeeBeeGee]

16 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Nastia's father was Valeri Liukin who was considered the top gymnastics coach in the country at the time. She got a lot of attention and endorsements. She was Marta's favorite. She was Nelli Kim's favorite. If there was a golden girl of the Olympics it was her.

Personally my favorite gymnast of that quad was Cheng Fei. Not the most consistent gymnast but so much power for such a slight gymnast.

Agree with all of this--Nastia was gymnastics royalty because of her father who had also been an Olympic gymnast. The story was irresistible--would Nastia be a second-generation gold medalist? Plus she was a comeback kid--she'd been injured and then Shawn the trickster came along and won everything. Would Nastia be able to pull out the win against the reigning world champion? Plus Nastia had appeared in Stick It and that awesome commercial where she appeared to be doing bars with Nadia. That really cemented her status as gymnastics royalty. And it didn't hurt that she was thin and blonde.

My favorite story about Cheng Fei is how she gave her competitors little gifts at the Games, as a gesture of sportsmanship. That is just such a sweet, kind thing to do. 

[Jeddah]

There were a few things I had forgotten about the 2008 AA. I forgot that Shaun was .6 behind Nastia, which was a bigger margin than I remembered. I forgot that Yang Yilin was only .075 behind Shaun. That Code of Points gave good bar workers a huge advantage.

I frequently yell “Land on your feet, and stay inbounds!” at my tv when watching gymnastics. Now I know where I got that from. Tim Daggett said it before Nastia’s floor.

I’m so glad Elfi Schlegel doesn’t commentate anymore. She was so obnoxious laughing at Ksenia Semenova for saying she thought she could win the AA. It wasn’t likely she’d win, but it wasn’t impossible.

[KittenPokerCheater]

I think that Nastia also won because the judges liked the more "classical/old world" style of her routines more than the athletic style that Shawn had.  Which is kind of curious, given that now it's ALL about the athletic aesthetic.

I WISH they had shown Sydney, because I would love to see the "vault being 5 inches too low."  And if anyone ever found out if it was accidental or someone playing a malicious prank.

What happened to the Romanian team?  They were so dominant back then.

It sickens me to think that from sydney onwards that evil man was abusing all these girls.

[tanyak]

I agree about how much athleticism rules now. I just stumbled upon the 1996 team competition and I’m pretty geeked to watch it. I’m reminded how much better I used to like floor when there seemed to be more choreography mixed in. I feel like for the last 10 to 12 years, everybody just seems to do some little shimmy here and there just to get to the corner to do another tumbling pass.

[Growsonwalls]

Yang Yilin! I loved her bars routine:

She has the loveliest form. 

As for Nastia and Shawn, they didn't speak for 8 years after the AA final. I guess there was a lot of jealousy/resentment. They have mended fences now.

ETA: Yang Yilin has the cutest dog!

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by Growsonwalls

[scarynikki12]

4 hours ago, Jeddah said:

That Code of Points gave good bar workers a huge advantage.

The Chinese women historically have been great bar workers so I wouldn't be surprised if it was to give them an edge.

I enjoyed Yang but it could be frustrating to watch her because I would fixate on the ten thousand barrettes holding her hair in place. I do the same when I watch the routines from the 80s and those massive scrunchies are everywhere.

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I think that Nastia also won because the judges liked the more "classical/old world" style of her routines more than the athletic style that Shawn had.  Which is kind of curious, given that now it's ALL about the athletic aesthetic.

I WISH they had shown Sydney, because I would love to see the "vault being 5 inches too low."  And if anyone ever found out if it was accidental or someone playing a malicious prank.

What happened to the Romanian team?  They were so dominant back then.

It sickens me to think that from sydney onwards that evil man was abusing all these girls.

I'd love to know if the vault had been messed with or if it was a mistake. Don't the gymnasts and their coaches usually check the equipment right before they start? Who was adjusting it? But then to have so many mess up before they realized the vault was too low. 

I miss the Romanian team. They were one of my favorites. I miss the Ukrainian team too. 

[sweeks]

I've been watching the rebroadcasts of the 1996 women's finals, and while lots of it (especially the copious shots of the Karolyis and the occasional Nassar sighting) are disturbing in retrospect, I have thoroughly enjoyed watching the Magnificent 7. They all were incredible, and while their routines do not have the difficulty of today's routines (unsurprising since it was over 20 years ago), they hold up very well. While Miller and Dawes were great as always (though Miller had an uncharacteristic flub on floor), I had forgotten about how good Dominique Moceanu was. 

[irisheyes]

28 minutes ago, sweeks said:

I had forgotten about how good Dominique Moceanu was. 

It’s sad how she was chewed up and spit out by the Karolyi machine. She wrote in 2008 about their abusive tendencies, and everyone ignored her. 

[andromeda331]

16 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

The Chinese women historically have been great bar workers so I wouldn't be surprised if it was to give them an edge.

I enjoyed Yang but it could be frustrating to watch her because I would fixate on the ten thousand barrettes holding her hair in place. I do the same when I watch the routines from the 80s and those massive scrunchies are everywhere.

Their good on everything. But watching them on the bars is my favorite. Their just so amazing.

[Guest]

19 hours ago, tanyak said:

I agree about how much athleticism rules now. I just stumbled upon the 1996 team competition and I’m pretty geeked to watch it. I’m reminded how much better I used to like floor when there seemed to be more choreography mixed in. I feel like for the last 10 to 12 years, everybody just seems to do some little shimmy here and there just to get to the corner to do another tumbling pass.

During this rewatch, I also found the 1996 beam and uneven bars routines to be more interesting and varied than today's. Vault is vault, though XD

[sweeks]

49 minutes ago, irisheyes said:

It’s sad how she was chewed up and spit out by the Karolyi machine. She wrote in 2008 about their abusive tendencies, and everyone ignored her. 

Very true! I hope she was and felt somewhat vindicated after the Nassar fallout. While it was likely too little and too late, I hope that it caused some people who initially dismissed her allegations to reconsider them and her.

[Growsonwalls]

14 minutes ago, sweeks said:

Very true! I hope she was and felt somewhat vindicated after the Nassar fallout. While it was likely too little and too late, I hope that it caused some people who initially dismissed her allegations to reconsider them and her.

Allegations of Karolyi abuse actually pre-dated Dominque Moceanu. Lots of accusations from Romanian gymnasts. It's just that the Karolyis were treated as gymnastics royalty in the US for so long. 

What made me sad was hearing gymnast after gymnast say the reason they were so susceptible to Nassar was he seemed protective of them after an abusive, demoralizing day at Camp Karolyi. 

[tanyak]

6 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

During this rewatch, I also found the 1996 beam and uneven bars routines to be more interesting and varied than today's. Vault is vault, though XD

 

Agreed. 

When I was a little girl, I wanted to be gymnast, but I grew up in small town with no gyms within 2 hours, so it was not meant to be. lol I devoured gymnastics. I was the girl in the 80s who watched Wide World of Sports, so that I could see the European championships or whatever. About 10 years ago, I noticed it just wasn't holding my interest as much. I figured I was just getting older. (I'm now 45.). I still record all the big events but I find myself staring at my iPad half the time. 

I didn't pick up my iPad once last night. I was reminded how much I like Dominique's Dawes' beam routine. And how fun Dominique M.'s floor routine was set to "Devil Went Down to Georgia." I really miss the days of more variety, as you said, and just more artistry. 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2020 by tanyak

[irisheyes]

Watching the 2004 all around. 

I hate the trend towards the shiny body suits that began around this time. I just don’t think they’re flattering at all. 

The Chinese gymnasts actually look like they’re the age they’re listed at. In later Olympics, they’d be listed as 20 and look 12. 

Svetlana Khorkina annoyed me when I watched it live, but now, she’s the best. She has literally zero f&cks to give. She’s going to come, do her avant-garde routine and judge you as you are judging her. It’s the best. 

Tim Daggett is still annoying. Can’t they find someone else to do this?

[CeeBeeGee]

34 minutes ago, irisheyes said:

Svetlana Khorkina annoyed me when I watched it live, but now, she’s the best. She has literally zero f&cks to give. She’s going to come, do her avant-garde routine and judge you as you are judging her. It’s the best. 

I honestly can't stand her, although I like her gymnastics, her creativity and her longevity. She's like Trump but with actual talent. Everyone else is to blame, there's always an excuse for why she didn't win, the judges want the Americans to win, yada yada yada....not to mention this shit. I'm not saying she has to be the typical self-effacing, modest gymnast--I like that she was confident and openly competitive, I like that she embraces being a diva (a weaponized and misogynistic term in the mouths of the NBC team, especially Troutmouth). And I can appreciate her bitterness in Sydney--as bad as I feel for Raducan about being stripped of the gold for a ridiculous reason, the fact is everyone who vaulted in the first and the first part of the second rotation of the AA final got hosed. I feel as bad for Svetlana as I do for Andreea because I honestly think 2000 was her year. (God knows she got held up by the judges for another three years to give her another shot.) But the constant display of poor sportsmanship and trash-talking just drives me crazy. You did really, really well for a long time, Sveta, and you contributed a lot to the sport. Let it go. Simone has surpassed you, and then eventually someone might surpass Simone (okay, this seems unlikely but still...). It's just the way of things.

[irisheyes]

I don’t think she ever got over 2000, and she just assumed that she was going to win in 2004 because she felt she got screwed over in 2000. 
 

Edited April 29, 2020 by irisheyes

[CeeBeeGee]

13 minutes ago, irisheyes said:

I don’t think she ever got over 2000, and she just assumed that she was going to win in 2004 because she felt she got screwed over in 2000. 
 

She has every right to be pissed about 2000. They should've just started the whole thing over. They damn well knew falls like that would seriously rattle the gymnasts and compromise the rest of their routines. One gymnast was so injured she had to scratch the rest of the competition.

[Growsonwalls]

My FAVORITE Khorkina memory has to be her not even getting up to congratulate her teammate Elena Zamolodchikova after the FX. and rocking the biggest bitchface. Watch it -- it's hilarious. 

But what an awesome floor routine from Elena.

One thing I disliked was the constant build up of Aliya Mustafina as the next big Russian gymnastics "diva." Been following Mustafina for years and she's never come across as a "diva." Unlike Khorkina she has excellent competition manners.

[Jeddah]

On 4/28/2020 at 12:17 AM, scarynikki12 said:

I enjoyed Yang but it could be frustrating to watch her because I would fixate on the ten thousand barrettes holding her hair in place.

 What was with all those barrettes back then? There had to be less obvious looking barrettes!

Gymnastics Hair: A Retrospective

That’s from a few years ago, but still hilarious (other than a Marta reference that did not age well).

 

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

I honestly can't stand her, although I like her gymnastics, her creativity and her longevity. She's like Trump but with actual talent. Everyone else is to blame, there's always an excuse for why she didn't win, the judges want the Americans to win, yada yada yada....not to mention this shit. I'm not saying she has to be the typical self-effacing, modest gymnast--I like that she was confident and openly competitive, I like that she embraces being a diva (a weaponized and misogynistic term in the mouths of the NBC team, especially Troutmouth). And I can appreciate her bitterness in Sydney--as bad as I feel for Raducan about being stripped of the gold for a ridiculous reason, the fact is everyone who vaulted in the first and the first part of the second rotation of the AA final got hosed. I feel as bad for Svetlana as I do for Andreea because I honestly think 2000 was her year. (God knows she got held up by the judges for another three years to give her another shot.) But the constant display of poor sportsmanship and trash-talking just drives me crazy. You did really, really well for a long time, Sveta, and you contributed a lot to the sport. Let it go. Simone has surpassed you, and then eventually someone might surpass Simone (okay, this seems unlikely but still...). It's just the way of things.

I hated her for those reasons too. She was a great gymnast but I hate poor sportsmanship, trash talking and people who can't blame others for their mistakes. Right now Sam Mikulah ticks me off because he can't ever pull it together at a competition and the commenters who keep letting him off the hook because he was probably tired or something. 

3 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

She has every right to be pissed about 2000. They should've just started the whole thing over. They damn well knew falls like that would seriously rattle the gymnasts and compromise the rest of their routines. One gymnast was so injured she had to scratch the rest of the competition.

Yes, they absolutely should have started the whole thing over. They knew damn well then that the falls had been due to the vault being at the wrong height and one of the girls was injured. Their lucky that more girls didn't get hurt. That was crap. Start over. There was no reason why they couldn't have done that. 

[ML89]

4 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Right now Sam Mikulah ticks me off because he can't ever pull it together at a competition and the commenters who keep letting him off the hook because he was probably tired or something. 

I bet Terry Gannon is having Jeremy Abbot flashbacks, because I sure I am...

[Jillibean]

Rewatching the old competitions is so much fun and such a nice distraction. The 1996 team final is a classic for so many reasons. Putting Svetlana aside, one thing that makes me sad is that Shannon Miller never got her AA gold. She was so stunning. 

i really loved the 1996 beam routines. Those gorgeous mounts are great to watch, unlike the current trend of just hopping onto the beam. I also noticed that almost every member of the M7 did four flips down the beam, whereas now the most you see anyone do is three. I assume these are all code of points issues, but the four elements in a row looks super impressive, and all the routines look beautiful with not a wolf turn to be found. Seriously, enough already with the wolf turn. I get that it’s hard to do, but I am so over it. 

I agree that the 2000 AA was completely mishandled to an almost ludicrous degree. 

Edited April 29, 2020 by Jillibean

[KittenPokerCheater]

Given the Russian's track record, I am sure that Khorkina has used banned substances while she competed.  

[CeeBeeGee]

Banned substances don't really help gymnasts, though--from what I know of them, they can't either add too much bulk or affect their timing. Russia overall had a problem but I doubt any gymnasts or skaters were using PEDs. Khorkina was skin and bones in the early aughts, she certainly wasn't juicing.

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

i really loved the 1996 beam routines. Those gorgeous mounts are great to watch, unlike the current trend of just hopping onto the beam.

Marta Karolyi always discouraged fancy mounts, saying they weren't worth the loss of points if you fell off right at the beginning. And remember, if a move becomes too prevalent, they can always de-value it and the move will disappear.

I'm just upset that they valued one of Simone's beam moves really low so now nobody will do it.  (I'm not up on the name of her moves)

[CeeBeeGee]

1 hour ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

Marta Karolyi always discouraged fancy mounts, saying they weren't worth the loss of points if you fell off right at the beginning. And remember, if a move becomes too prevalent, they can always de-value it and the move will disappear.

I'm just upset that they valued one of Simone's beam moves really low so now nobody will do it.  (I'm not up on the name of her moves)

And that is why the Karolyis were never known for their artistry. (OMG, some of the choreography from the '90s--Kerri Strug comes to mind...) Yes, I know they didn't actually choreograph the numbers but it was under their aegis and they had to approve it.

The Simone beam move was I think a double-double dismount. Crazy difficult.

[scarynikki12]

11 hours ago, Jillibean said:

one thing that makes me sad is that Shannon Miller never got her AA gold.

I place the blame squarely on Steve Nunno's shoulders. He should have recognized Shannon's limitations on floor and vault and found a way to make each apparatus work in her favor. Instead he went with the fad moves (double layout on floor and Yurchenko 1.5 on vault), she struggled, he didn't make adjustments, and it cost her another AA medal. She also had a tendency to pike down her double layout bars dismount so I'd have gone another route there too. I wish Peggy had been in charge of choreographing the bars and floor routines as well as beam. Peggy did a wonderful job of creating beam routines that played to Shannon's strengths while maintaining the necessary difficulty. I am certain the same would have happened if she'd been in charge of bars and floor as well.

[Growsonwalls]

I feel like 1996 was always going to be Lilia Podkopayeva's year. She was incredibly consistent and much stronger on floor and vault than Shannon. If she didn't make major mistakes the gold was hers.

1992 was the year where you could make the case that Shannon deserved gold. Of course I like Tatiana Gutsu and her still-difficult beam routine. And considering Gutsu was raped by Vitaly Scherbo and has had a pretty rough life ever since I'm glad Gutsu did get that momenty of glory. 

[andromeda331]

7 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

I feel like 1996 was always going to be Lilia Podkopayeva's year. She was incredibly consistent and much stronger on floor and vault than Shannon. If she didn't make major mistakes the gold was hers.

So do I. She was really good all year long.

Quote

1992 was the year where you could make the case that Shannon deserved gold. Of course I like Tatiana Gutsu and her still-difficult beam routine.

I liked both routines but I'll always think it should have gone to Shannon.

Quote

And considering Gutsu was raped by Vitaly Scherbo and has had a pretty rough life ever since I'm glad Gutsu did get that momenty of glory. 

What? That's horrible. 

[Growsonwalls]

Just now, andromeda331 said:

What? That's horrible. 

Yes it's a horrible story.

But what's even more horrible is a bunch of gymnasts shamed her in interviews.

And then there's this horrific interview by Svetlana Baitova:

Quote

A: You know, this lies in the area of “I believe-I don’t believe”. Personally, I don’t believe it. Vitaly Scherbo stood out on that star team. His talent was always accompanied by success and luck. He had crowds of female fans, there was no need for him to rape anyone, and especially Gutsu. She just has too high self-esteem. On the national team, the choreographers always treated her like she was a God’s gift, choreographing her movements, her neck and everything else. 

Gutsu is a single mother and just has had a rough go of it.

The nice thing is I follow Tatiana Gutsu on IG and it seems like Svetlana Boguinskaya remains supportive. I'm glad Gutsu isn't completely alone after coming out with her story. Still, makes me so sad.

[Jaded]

Svetlana Boginskaya is one of the foreign gymnasts I remember most from the 92' Olympics along with the United Team in those black and white leotards. I've always thought  Svetlana Boginskaya had really striking looks too. Those were the first Summer Olympics I have somewhat clear memories of. I was a Kim Zmeskal fan and also remember being really sad when she fell of the beam.

[shoregirl]

Maggie Haney , former coach of Laurie Hernandez and Riley McCusker, has received a 8 year ban by USA Gymnastics

https://www.ocregister.com/2020/04/29/maggie-haney-suspended-8-years-by-usa-gymnastics/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

From the article:

"The verbal and emotional abuse and the bullying left gymnasts despondent, depressed, even suicidal, parents said. At least two gymnasts told their parents they hated themselves.

Other parents said Haney herself threatened to commit suicide if their high-profile daughters left MG Elite."

 

[CeeBeeGee]

54 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I liked both routines but I'll always think it should have gone to Shannon.

She absolutely should've gotten a ten on her vault. That vault was perfect. That would've won it for her. But I will admit, I loved Gutsu's tricks--that double layout with split legs in her floor routine! Epic (even with that dreadful, herky-jerky choreography. I was very surprised to see a (former) Soviet gymnast with such bad choreo, they typically had fantastic dance.) And it's a shame that she's had to bear a lot of the brunt of the famous switcheroo--SHE didn't make the decision, and I doubt she knew what was even happening.

45 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Yes it's a horrible story.

But what's even more horrible is a bunch of gymnasts shamed her in interviews.

And then there's this horrific interview by Svetlana Baitova:

Gutsu is a single mother and just has had a rough go of it.

The nice thing is I follow Tatiana Gutsu on IG and it seems like Svetlana Boguinskaya remains supportive. I'm glad Gutsu isn't completely alone after coming out with her story. Still, makes me so sad.

*vomit emoji* OMG that is horrific. Jesus Christ. Sure hope she's never in a position to know just how Gutsu felt. I've posted before about how horrificly sexist and even misogynistic Russian culture can be. It's awful. Poor Tatiana. 

After the news came out and I saw the beating she was taking in the press, I posted on Tatiana's FB page "A lot of people believe you and I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. You don't deserve this." Ugh, fuck Vitaly, I was so SO happy when Simone out-medaled him last year.

[Growsonwalls]

8 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

*vomit emoji* OMG that is horrific. Jesus Christ. Sure hope she's never in a position to know just how Gutsu felt. I've posted before about how horrificly sexist and even misogynistic Russian culture can be. It's awful. Poor Tatiana. 

After the news came out and I saw the beating she was taking in the press, I posted on Tatiana's FB page "A lot of people believe you and I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. You don't deserve this." Ugh, fuck Vitaly, I was so SO happy when Simone out-medaled him last year.

I know. I was horrified when I read that interview. For years I've sort of thought Shannon should have won gold but when that story of Tatiana's rape came out and people were attacking her in the media and on her SM I thought that it was good Tatiana got an OGM. Can you imagine attacking someone who at the time was 14???

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

Yes it's a horrible story.

But what's even more horrible is a bunch of gymnasts shamed her in interviews.

And then there's this horrific interview by Svetlana Baitova:

Gutsu is a single mother and just has had a rough go of it.

The nice thing is I follow Tatiana Gutsu on IG and it seems like Svetlana Boguinskaya remains supportive. I'm glad Gutsu isn't completely alone after coming out with her story. Still, makes me so sad.

Thank you for the information. Poor Tatiana. That's horrible. I hate the crap women get when they come forward about their rape. Its hard enough to come forward without having to put up with that crap. Baitova's remarks aren't that original. The old well I knew him, he was great in his field and didn't need to rape anyone. Its all bullcrap. Most friends are shocked to learn someone they know is a rapist. Just because he was nice to you doesn't mean he was to everyone. He was a star of his team. May I introduced you to the other stars of their fields or sports who raped women? The list is amazingly long. No he doesn't have to rape anyone. No one has to rape anyone Svetlana. But it still happens. I'm glad that she had support from Boguinskaya.

[selkie]

Another bit of crazy from Khorkina:

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1092449/khorkina-tokyo-2020-punishment-from-god

Quote

Russia's two-time Olympic gold medal-winning gymnast Svetlana Khorkina has made the controversial claim that the postponement of the Tokyo 2020 Olympic and Paralympic Games is God's punishment for the sports community and the world in general for the removal of the country from leading international competitions.

The Russian flag was due to be absent from Tokyo 2020 after the World Anti-Doping Agency banned the nation from all international sport for four years in December.

 

[HartofDixie]

Maggie’s out!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/laurie-hernandezs-former-coach-maggie-haney-suspended-by-usa-gymnastics-for-eight-years/ar-BB13oKDc?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=mailsignout

18 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Banned substances don't really help gymnasts, though--from what I know of them, they can't either add too much bulk or affect their timing. Russia overall had a problem but I doubt any gymnasts or skaters were using PEDs. Khorkina was skin and bones in the early aughts, she certainly wasn't juicing.

Didn’t some of the rhythmic gymnasts get temporary suspensions for taking diuretics? And didn’t a couple of our MAG get in trouble for testing positive for marijuana?

[KittenPokerCheater]

Maggie's out? Good.  And I'm glad she can't contact her former athletes, because I am sure she'd be terrible.

 I can only imagine how relieved Riley must be, now that she's no longer enduring that kind of mistreatment.  I remember seeing some competition where she had to leave the competition because she was sick and Maggie was ominously taking her out. 

 

[Growsonwalls]

8 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Thank you for the information. Poor Tatiana. That's horrible. I hate the crap women get when they come forward about their rape. Its hard enough to come forward without having to put up with that crap. Baitova's remarks aren't that original. The old well I knew him, he was great in his field and didn't need to rape anyone. Its all bullcrap. Most friends are shocked to learn someone they know is a rapist. Just because he was nice to you doesn't mean he was to everyone. He was a star of his team. May I introduced you to the other stars of their fields or sports who raped women? The list is amazingly long. No he doesn't have to rape anyone. No one has to rape anyone Svetlana. But it still happens. I'm glad that she had support from Boguinskaya.

I also read some gymnastics discussion boards where when Tatiana came out with her story fans were again saying how Shannon Miller deserved the gold, etc. Like that has anything to do with anything. Ugh.

And because this deserves to be said: Tatiana was an awesome gymnast. Her beam routine with a few adjustments in terms of turns and leaps could have a great start value today:

 

[CeeBeeGee]

3 hours ago, HartofDixie said:

Maggie’s out!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/laurie-hernandezs-former-coach-maggie-haney-suspended-by-usa-gymnastics-for-eight-years/ar-BB13oKDc?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=mailsignout

Didn’t some of the rhythmic gymnasts get temporary suspensions for taking diuretics? And didn’t a couple of our MAG get in trouble for testing positive for marijuana?

The Maggie story is unbelievable. She threatened suicide if gymnasts left her? Jesus Christ. I'm so, so glad Laurie and Riley are out of that hell. I can't imagine how unsafe her gymnasts must've felt.

I also coach kids--different sport and much younger than these--but why the hell do these terrible, abusive coaches who apparently hate kids decide to work in this field? Yelling at them? Hitting them? Screaming at them?

I don't follow RG and barely follow the men so I can't answer. But--diuretics are banned? That seems weird, how can diuretics improve your performance? Or pot for that matter?

3 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I also read some gymnastics discussion boards where when Tatiana came out with her story fans were again saying how Shannon Miller deserved the gold, etc. Like that has anything to do with anything. Ugh.

 

Fuck that shit! People, be better! Jesus. Don't use a personal, horrific tragedy to relitigate a long-past sports meet.

[Growsonwalls]

Laurie Hernandez has spoken out on her IG about Maggie Haney:

 

[andromeda331]

7 hours ago, selkie said:

Another bit of crazy from Khorkina:

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1092449/khorkina-tokyo-2020-punishment-from-god

 

Or maybe its God's punishment for all the doping your country has done? Did you ever think of that? Seriously though I hate people claim bad things happening are God's punishment. Hurricane Katrina God's punishment. If that crap was true wouldn't God target rapists, murderers, dictators and other horrible people? And not say a five year old? A baby?