S24.E08: A Better Person

[WendyCR72]

Airing November 17, 2022:

Quote

The SVU hunts for a violent suspect who killed a detective's child. Rollins ponders a potential opportunity.

[Iguessnot]

They couldn't find an actor who looked 21? I was thrown off at first because I thought that was a 30+ dude. 

They are trolling us. He called Benson a saint.

Edited November 18, 2022 by Iguessnot

[MerBearHou]

31 minutes ago, Iguessnot said:

They couldn't find an actor who looked 21? I was thrown off at first because I thought that was a 30+ dude. 

Seriously!  That actor looked 40 — I thought it was a joke at first that he was turning 21, but nope.

[mommalib]

I like Fin and Muncy's mentor/mentee relationship. 

[Iguessnot]

I did like the lawyer bringing up that the victim was a wrestler. It is not another life It's a skillset. They could have written a better response than that.

[Xeliou66]

This was a mixed bag but better than most modern day SVU episodes - an actual investigation into a heinous crime where things weren’t obvious from the start, plus solid legal material for Carisi. It was dragged down a bit by the usual Benson worship, but I liked this episode more than most modern day SVU cases.

As I said, it was nice to see actual detective work, we didn’t know what happened from the start, and while I did miss Velasco and wondered why he wasn’t around, Fin and Muncy and even Rollins got good material in this episode, its always nice when Rollins isn’t biased and doesn’t let personal crap get in the way of her duty, still not a fan of her but it’s too bad it took her leaving the show for it then to write her better and more consistently.

Very nice to see the ME, Abel Truman, again, I really like him and it adds a lot for them to have a recurring ME.

Carisi got some good legal scenes, it’s nice how Carisi is officially no longer acting as another member of the squad like they had him in many season 21 episodes, but as a part of a separate but equally important office.

The bad was Benson, while not as intolerable as usual, they started to pile on the Benson worship heavily at the end with McDaniels coming around to being a nicer guy and telling the truth as a result of a speech from St Olivia. We’ve seen that countless times and it’s so goddamn tiresome. I did laugh at McDaniels calling Benson a saint, I have to wonder if that was an Easter egg from the writers to the viewers who’ve nicknamed her “St Olivia”. But I could really do without the Benson worship in every episode, and the ending was heavy handed, while the message about acceptance was good, they could use a lot more subtlety and less preachiness in getting it across.

The promo for the next episode looks god awful and it will be hard to stomach, but the good news is Rollins will no longer be a regular after the next episode, meaning we will no longer be subjected to her soapy shit onscreen. I’m hopeful that this will give an opportunity for more case-centric episodes and more focus on the other 4 characters not named Benson. But god I dread sitting through the next episode.

Overall this was better than most modern day SVU episodes, I liked having a violent serial predator and a case where we didn’t immediately know everything and the case was solid, it was only dragged down by a couple of the main problems with modern day SVU - Benson worship and overly heavy handed dialogue. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I had difficulty imagining the dad going to those extreme measures to clean up the scene and why didn’t he realize that by cleaning up the scene, there wouldn’t  be enough evidence to prosecute the killer.  So, later he’s furious that they can’t prosecute the killer.  

[Iguessnot]

When did Rollins earn these great accolades?

[wknt3]

The Good
Carisi. Strong legal material and some good courtroom scenes. Even the Rollisi stuff was decent.
Fin. We could have used more of him. I would have especially like to have seen more of him with the father and some more snark. But what we got was still pretty good. Especially the scenes with Muncy.
The victim's family was pretty good and the actor's deserve a ton of credit for making that after school special/Hallmark movie level writing almost work and making the characters feel somewhat real and sympathetic.
The COTW. Simply for not showing us everything from the beginning and actually having  a real beginning, middle, and end without feeling the need for a "shocking" twist.
 

The Bad:
Rollins is an expert in forensic psychology? Rollins?? Rollins??? We are supposed to believe that the Rollins we have watched all these years is such an expert that she is getting sweet job offers to leave NYPD? FFS I know they want to write her off in a way that doesn't drag down Carisi and trash the charactrer yet again, but there has to be a way to do it believably and not try to make us believe that Rollins is seen as someone who can be a dispassionate expert.
No Velasco. Again it stretches belief that they are working a case involving a family member of an NYPD detective and it's not all hands on deck. Again I know that this is all about practicality and saving him for the upcoming episodes without Giddish, but we end up with an episode that should be about the contrast of perspectives among squad members in part, and we end up with no Velasco and minimum Fin. I guess giving them material would have taken away from showing us how awesome Rollins and Benson are,
Benson. Holy crap the amount of Benson worship was OTT this week. Full blown victim whisperer and genius who can get everyone to see the light and overcome 4 decades plus of culture and experience.
The promo for Rollins' grand finale makes this week's episode look like a model of restraint and subtlety.

Overall this was a pretty good, but disappointing episode. They had a really solid idea, but they never bothered to actually pursue it and ended up pulling their punches in order to worship at the Altar of Our Lady of Manhattan. At least when they weren't bowing before the altar of the almighty dollar and leaving out characters or sideplots so Dick Wolf can buy another yacht now instead of when this episode hits foreign markets and syndication. This was yet another example of A+ ideas with C- execution. And while a B is better than most episodes so far settling for mediocrity is just sad.

[dttruman]

8 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

They couldn't find an actor who looked 21? I was thrown off at first because I thought that was a 30+ dude.

7 hours ago, MerBearHou said:

Seriously!  That actor looked 40 — I thought it was a joke at first that he was turning 21, but nope.

Well we just found out where they made a recent cut in the budget, in The Casting Department.

[SunnyBeBe]

For a moment, I thought they were going to duplicate the old story of when the grieving family member sees the suspect in custody and either shoots him in the station or follows him when he leaves.  

[NoReally]

8 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

When did Rollins earn these great accolades?

Yes! And when did she become an expert in forensic psychology? Did I miss something?

Edited November 18, 2022 by NoReally

[dttruman]

On 11/18/2022 at 10:02 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

For a moment, I thought they were going to duplicate the old story of when the grieving family member sees the suspect in custody and either shoots him in the station or follows him when he leaves.  

I think that would have been better than listen to Benson put on her finest performance of being condescending and hypocritical to McDaniels. Benson lecturing McDaniels on tampering with a crime scene. She reminds him that is a felony. I guess Benson needs to be reminded that a couple of episodes before, she helped cover up  a murder committed by a little girl, isn't that a felony. I believe this has become a bad habit for Benson, because she did it before, back in the episode, "Vanities bonfire" (It was just on a few days ago).

On 11/18/2022 at 6:23 AM, wknt3 said:

No Velasco. Again it stretches belief that they are working a case involving a family member of an NYPD detective and it's not all hands on deck. Again I know that this is all about practicality and saving him for the upcoming episodes without Giddish, but we end up with an episode that should be about the contrast of perspectives among squad members in part, and we end up with no Velasco

Totally agree, that there should have been an all out police presence for this kind of situation. This would have been a great time to have Chief McGrath going Nutso, yelling at Benson, and claiming this a PR nightmare.

Edited November 25, 2022 by dttruman

[SunnyBeBe]

This week on Chicago Med they had a medical doctor channeling Olivia.  Lol. She started putting the hard sell on an undocumented female rape victim reporting to the police, AFTER the girl who was drugged, had no memory of what happened declined to report the assault.  Another doctor had to reign her in.  I really thought Olivia was going to burst through the doors, having gotten on a plane to fly there to bully, I mean persuade the victim to help them prosecute.  Lol 

Edited November 18, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[Xeliou66]

32 minutes ago, dttruman said:

I think that would have been better than listen to Benson put on her finest performance of being condescending and hypocritical to McDaniels. Benson lecturing McDaniels on tampering with crime. She reminds him that is a felony. I guess Benson needs to be reminded that a couple of episodes before, she helped cover up  a murder committed by a little girl, isn't that a felony. I believe this has become a bad habit for Benson, because she did it before, back in the episode, "Vanities bonfire" (It was just on a few days ago).

Totally agree, that there should have been an all out police presence for this kind of situation. This would have been a great time to have Chief McGrath going Nustso, yelling at Benson, and claiming this a a PR nightmare.

Benson has broken the rules and the law so many times when it suits her and her interests/agenda it’s laughable for her to lecture anyone else about doing it - I mean just this season she covered up the fact that the kid shot the serial kidnapper/rapist in episode 4, and she lied to the DA’s office and hid a witness from them in the crossover premiere. And that’s just this season! She’s done it so many times over the years it’s ridiculous, and so she has no business lecturing anyone about breaking the rules, but Benson’s hypocrisy never gets called out and everyone is supposed to take her word as the word of god. It’s a main reason why I can’t fucking stand St Olivia anymore. It would’ve been better to have Fin talk to McDaniels, as Fin could relate more since his son is gay and he had some difficulties accepting that at first and he could’ve had a discussion with McDaniels about things, but no we can’t have anyone take away the spotlight from St Olivia, she’s the only one who can get people to see the light. Blah.

The poster wknt3 put it well - that this was a really good idea for an episode but it got dragged down a lot by Benson worship. It was still better than most modern day SVU’s, but the Benson worship plus the heavy handed writing weakened it, I wish the writers could deliver messages with subtlety instead of bashing the viewers over the head with a sledgehammer in the style of an after school special.

[Route66]

Too many small plot holes.

Why did the school tell Carisi they were offering Rollins a job? She gave one lecture. It made no sense that everyone knew and kept saying they knew by calling her, "Professor".

How did Rollins notice on grainy dive bar security tape footage that Aiden was presenting as female, yet the bartender who'd known him for years never recognized him? 

How did Aiden leave the bowling party and get nail extensions? Presumably they'd be polished, so how did dad remove the nail polish?

If the killer was targeting transgender victims, why talk to Cora since he initially didn't know? And why would Cora disclose this to a stranger almost immediately?

I get that the show is woke, but it strains credibility that dad goes from not knowing, to dealing with the trauma of finding his child murdered and knowing he committed a felony, to easily using "Ada" and "she".

[dttruman]

8 minutes ago, tpwilder said:

I had the really politically incorrect thought that the actor playing Aiden/Ada didn't come across as trans. I noticed we never got more than grainy footage of Ada, for example.  I also wondered if the second victim was genuinely trans or a biological woman. If she is trans, she passes

I can understand that. Law & Order have used biological women actresses as trans characters on some of their episodes.

[illdoc]

44 minutes ago, Route66 said:

How did Aiden leave the bowling party and get nail extensions? Presumably they'd be polished, so how did dad remove the nail polish?

I just assumed they were "press-on nails". You would polish the fake nails. The dad would just take off the fake nails--no need to remove the polish.

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, Route66 said:

It's not really politically incorrect. Aiden wasn't out to everyone, so he couldn't appear trans as far as having undergone any medical transition.

Did Aiden go to a neighborhood bar where he lived to see that guy? Was it the same bar that Fin said was in a neighborhood that was mean, racist and phobic? If so, why would Aiden go there? He is probably more than likely to be recognized and probably get beat up.

Edited November 18, 2022 by dttruman

[Route66]

4 minutes ago, dttruman said:

Did it Aiden go to a neighborhood bar where he lived to see that guy? Was it the same bar that Fin said was in a neighborhood that was mean, racist and phobic? If so, why would Aiden go there? He is probably more than likely to be recognized and probably get beat up.

Right? Especially since they were apparently fighting, meaning other customers and employees would see what was going on. If Aiden had been going there for years, wouldn't it make sense that he'd be recognized?

And speaking of neighborhoods, while I understand artistic license, once again there's a 21 year old student living alone in a Manhattan apartment. Unrealistic. 

[Madding crowd]

I must have missed something because I swear the dad said Aida was wearing jeans when he found her. How would she have bite marks all over her body while dressed? Plus it looked like she had bare legs when he looked through the window. 

Edited November 18, 2022 by Madding crowd

[dttruman]

18 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I must have missed something because I swear the dad said Aida was wearing jeans when he found her. How would she have bite marks all over her body while dressed? Plus it looked like she had bare legs when he looked through the window. 

I can't remember when or if the Dad said that? I do remember the detectives standing over the body with the blanket covering most of the things up

Edited November 19, 2022 by dttruman

[Madding crowd]

He said it during the court hearing I think when he was admitting covering up evidence.

[gesundheit]

I love Rain Valdez so I was glad to see her in this episode!

20 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

When did Rollins earn these great accolades?

16 hours ago, wknt3 said:

Rollins is an expert in forensic psychology? Rollins?? Rollins??? We are supposed to believe that the Rollins we have watched all these years is such an expert that she is getting sweet job offers to leave NYPD? FFS I know they want to write her off in a way that doesn't drag down Carisi and trash the charactrer yet again, but there has to be a way to do it believably and not try to make us believe that Rollins is seen as someone who can be a dispassionate expert.

12 hours ago, NoReally said:

Yes! And when did she become an expert in forensic psychology? Did I miss something?

8 hours ago, Route66 said:

Why did the school tell Carisi they were offering Rollins a job? She gave one lecture. It made no sense that everyone knew and kept saying they knew by calling her, "Professor".

All of the above, so much!! This whole thing made me crazy. First of all, an "expert in forensic psychology?" No she isn't. You know who experts in forensic psychology are? Forensic psychologists. It's not a cool thing you pick up at your cop job, it's a DOCTORATE. Jesus. And at Fordham, no less! Not at the White Plains DeVry or some two-year storefront for-profit college. Not as an adjunct lecturer, not a special guest, a full-time professor. Yes, definitely those faculty searches happen by somebody offering a cop a job via a mutual friend, that's all it takes.

I was so hoping they'd actually have fun and write her as taking a job as a consultant on some NYC cop show. That would've been entertaining, plus they could actually do a little write-what-you-know in a few scenes! I was also so hoping they'd write her out in a way that freed Carisi of her, but clearly they're doing the exact opposite. Oh well. 

[Iguessnot]

50 minutes ago, gesundheit said:

All of the above, so much!! This whole thing made me crazy. First of all, an "expert in forensic psychology?" No she isn't. You know who experts in forensic psychology are? Forensic psychologists. It's not a cool thing you pick up at your cop job, it's a DOCTORATE. Jesus. And at Fordham, no less! Not at the White Plains DeVry or some two-year storefront for-profit college. Not as an adjunct lecturer, not a special guest, a full-time professor. Yes, definitely those faculty searches happen by somebody offering a cop a job via a mutual friend, that's all it takes.

She must have slept at a Holiday Inn Express

[dttruman]

19 hours ago, gesundheit said:

All of the above, so much!! This whole thing made me crazy. First of all, an "expert in forensic psychology?" No she isn't. You know who experts in forensic psychology are? Forensic psychologists. It's not a cool thing you pick up at your cop job, it's a DOCTORATE. Jesus. And at Fordham, no less! Not at the White Plains DeVry or some two-year storefront for-profit college. Not as an adjunct lecturer, not a special guest, a full-time professor. Yes, definitely those faculty searches happen by somebody offering a cop a job via a mutual friend, that's all it takes.

That struck me funny also. Has Fordam's enrollment gone down significantly that they need some kind of plug from SVU? I would have thought she would be offered a job at Hudson and have to go around the country making speeches at other Universities.

19 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

No way will Rollins die, she’ll wind up getting married to Carisi and taking the job as a professor and everything will be happy. I knew they wouldn’t kill Rollins because she has 2 kids and what would happen to them? but I was hoping she would break things off with Carisi before leaving, it would be awesome if Carisi was free of Rollins, he could do so much better than her, but the writers don’t want to piss off the shippers so they will keep them together. I can only hope Carisi gets better material now that Rollins won’t be onscreen, so we’ll get more of a focus on Carisi as a lawyer and not as Rollins boyfriend, and I’m also hoping for more Fin, Velasco and Muncy now that Rollins is gone, but I’m afraid it will just be even more St Olivia all the time.

Do you think Carisi maybe watching the kids sometime while she is out and about with her "Honrary Forensic Psychology Degree?

Edited November 19, 2022 by dttruman

[MarylandGirl]

It would have been more realistic if Fordham had said she seemed to have a talent for teaching and suggested she apply for their PhD program in forensic psychology. And maybe she had to take a few undergrad classes as prerequisites (do we know if she even has a college degree? do any of them besides, obviously, Carisi?) So she's leaving to do that. Not "poof," she's a professor/lecturer. I think she'd at least need a master's for that, which I sincerely doubt she has.

Agreed it was an interesting case, though with some holes. Greg Grunberg was really good in it (I'll forever associate him with Felicity). Though his sudden switch to using female pronouns, without slipping, seemed unrealistic, as others noted. And I had assumed they were press-on nails.

[Route66]

1 minute ago, MarylandGirl said:

Though his sudden switch to using female pronouns, without slipping, seemed unrealistic, as others noted. And I had assumed they were press-on nails.

This has also been done in every episode that involves a trans plotline. It's not believable that a middle aged cop from Queens suddenly effortlessly accepts that his son of 21 years was his daughter named Ada. It's also frankly impractical that the SVU squad immediately switched names and pronouns of a deceased victim. Would none of them ever just use the name and gender they knew when the crime was discovered?

Additionally, I found the memorial service to be phony and overdone. SVU deals every day with tortured and murdered victims from all walks of life. Never are they seen drinking champagne and toasting other victims. 

[gesundheit]

2 hours ago, Route66 said:

Additionally, I found the memorial service to be phony and overdone. SVU deals every day with tortured and murdered victims from all walks of life. Never are they seen drinking champagne and toasting other victims. 

I think in this case it was entirely that she was a cop's kid. They made it clear out the outset that this one mattered more, with Amanda listing all of their children and imagining what it would be like if it'd been them. Which seemed ridiculous because it's hardly the first time, they should've made it a cop one of them used to work with or something. Especially considering how hard the show has worked to tell us the SVU is the morally superior, enlightened unit that doesn't get swept up in the bleeding-blue/cop loyalty stuff. 

[wknt3]

On 11/18/2022 at 2:04 PM, dttruman said:

Totally agree, that there should have been an all out police presence for this kind of situation. This would have been a great time to have Chief McGrath going Nutso, yelling at Benson, and claiming this a a PR nightmare.

5 hours ago, gesundheit said:

I think in this case it was entirely that she was a cop's kid. They made it clear out the outset that this one mattered more, with Amanda listing all of their children and imagining what it would be like if it'd been them. Which seemed ridiculous because it's hardly the first time, they should've made it a cop one of them used to work with or something. Especially considering how hard the show has worked to tell us the SVU is the morally superior, enlightened unit that doesn't get swept up in the bleeding-blue/cop loyalty stuff. 

Agreed on both counts. I actually thought about McGrath and mentioning it in my post, but I only had so much time and I thought saying an episode could use MORE McGrath might get my account suspended for suspicious activity. On a more serious note this one of the points where there was a lot a wasted potential. They could have shown the politics involved and really explored the ethical and cultural dilemmas with the brass going from full court press to wanting to make it go away and showing different perspectives from different squad members. Cut all of the "Professor Rollins: cuteness and focus on the interesting parts. I for one would love to have seen Fin really struggling with this - he is the one who both knows about the problems of overcoming your upbringing to find acceptance, but also the biggest supporter of loyalty to the shield above all.

16 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

No way will Rollins die, she’ll wind up getting married to Carisi and taking the job as a professor and everything will be happy. I knew they wouldn’t kill Rollins because she has 2 kids and what would happen to them? but I was hoping she would break things off with Carisi before leaving, it would be awesome if Carisi was free of Rollins, he could do so much better than her, but the writers don’t want to piss off the shippers so they will keep them together. I can only hope Carisi gets better material now that Rollins won’t be onscreen, so we’ll get more of a focus on Carisi as a lawyer and not as Rollins boyfriend, and I’m also hoping for more Fin, Velasco and Muncy now that Rollins is gone, but I’m afraid it will just be even more St Olivia all the time.

Hmmmm. Maybe a spinoff where Rollins dies and leaves Carisi the kids and he marries a widow who also has kids? "It's the story of DA Carisi..."

[WendyCR72]

I have no clue if Rollins will live or die, but TPTB have lied in the past.

When Law & Order: OC began, some fans referenced an interview where someone swore up and down that Kathy, Elliot's wife, was not going to die.

Guess what?

Soooo...no matter what TPTB say, wait until things play out on screen, is all I can say.

[EtheltoTillie]

On 11/18/2022 at 10:02 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

For a moment, I thought they were going to duplicate the old story of when the grieving family member sees the suspect in custody and either shoots him in the station or follows him when he leaves.  

Spoiler alert. They did that on Blue Bloods this week. 

[Xeliou66]

2 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

I have no clue if Rollins will live or die, but TPTB have lied in the past.

When Law & Order: OC began, some fans referenced an interview where someone swore up and down that Kathy, Elliot's wife, was not going to die.

Guess what?

Soooo...no matter what TPTB say, wait until things play out on screen, is all I can say.

I’m certain Rollins won’t die - they don’t want to enrage the shippers and Rollins fans, who are already angry that Rollins is being written off, plus there’s the situation with Rollins kids. I don’t think modern day SVU would go that dark, killing off a single mom of two kids who’s also a main character. Do you know the specific interview where someone involved with the show said Kathy wouldn’t die? They have misled us but I don’t recall TPTB ever outright lying to the fans.

[WendyCR72]

7 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I’m certain Rollins won’t die - they don’t want to enrage the shippers and Rollins fans, who are already angry that Rollins is being written off, plus there’s the situation with Rollins kids. I don’t think modern day SVU would go that dark, killing off a single mom of two kids who’s also a main character. Do you know the specific interview where someone involved with the show said Kathy wouldn’t die? They have misled us but I don’t recall TPTB ever outright lying to the fans.

I never read the interview first hand, but plenty in the OC forum talked of such an interview, saying TPTB swore Kathy wasn't going to die. And on other shows, I recall TPTB playing cagey with plot points, so...

For the sake of the Rollins/Carisi fans, I hope they get their happy ending, but let me remind you, @Xeliou66 , about FBI: Most Wanted and poor Tali's fate following events there, so I can't say Wolf shows shy away from dark...

[Xeliou66]

16 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

I never read the interview first hand, but plenty in the OC forum talked of such an interview, saying TPTB swore Kathy wasn't going to die. And on other shows, I recall TPTB playing cagey with plot points, so...

For the sake of the Rollins/Carisi fans, I hope they get their happy ending, but let me remind you, @Xeliou66 , about FBI: Most Wanted and poor Tali's fate following events there, so I can't say Wolf shows shy away from dark...

Yeah you’re right about FBI:MW, that was rather shocking, but that show has a darker tone overall than SVU. SVU used to get pretty dark, but that’s been replaced by MH/Benson saving the world and ensuring all is right in the end, and they aren’t going to kill off St Olivia’s BFF, especially since people are already outraged over Rollins being written off the show in the first place. I can only imagine the anger these fans would have if TPTB flat out lied about Rollins’ ending, so I’m 100% certain Rollins won’t be killed off. SVU takes place in lovey dovey  fairly tale soapy land now, so I’m sure it will end with Rollins marrying Carisi and accepting a teaching position and living happily ever after. I was hoping for an ending where Carisi and Rollins wouldn’t be together, because I’ve never sensed an ounce of romantic chemistry between them and not every man and woman that work together have to sleep together, but that’s not happening, the shippers are in charge of this show now.

[txhorns79]

On 11/18/2022 at 2:51 PM, Route66 said:

How did Rollins notice on grainy dive bar security tape footage that Aiden was presenting as female, yet the bartender who'd known him for years never recognized him? 

It was kind of ridiculous.  I saw the footage for about ten seconds and knew it was the same person.  And honestly, they portrayed that area as phobic against everyone, so why would Aiden have chosen it to come out as transgender? 

19 hours ago, gesundheit said:

All of the above, so much!! This whole thing made me crazy. First of all, an "expert in forensic psychology?" No she isn't. You know who experts in forensic psychology are? Forensic psychologists. It's not a cool thing you pick up at your cop job, it's a DOCTORATE.

Yes.  Being a professor is hard!  You need to have a mastery of your subject area!  You have to be able to prepare lesson plans and run a classroom, sometimes with hundreds of people in attendance!  While Amanda may have some knowledge of forensic psychology through her position as a detective, it's absurd to think she'd be qualified to teach college courses on it.   

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

I’m sure it will end with Rollins marrying Carisi and accepting a teaching position and living happily ever after. I was hoping for an ending where Carisi and Rollins wouldn’t be together, because I’ve never sensed an ounce of romantic chemistry between them and not every man and woman that work together have to sleep together, but that’s not happening, the shippers are in charge of this show now.

Stupid question, then a agreeing opinion.

If Rollins leaves the force, will she be able to collect cop's pension and a teaching position salary? So if they do breakup, she'll at least have 2 sources of income for taking care of the kids.

I also didn't see any "romantic chemistry  between the two, even when they (outside of Benson'office) had that ultimate argument when Rollins felt overwhelmed and helpless.  It was suppose to be that big moment where they open up to each other, but I never got that vibe.

[WendyCR72]

I get some do not agree with 'shipping couples, but others enjoy doing so. Let's please curb the criticism towards 'shippers. Keep the criticism towards the characters/pairing, not your fellow posters. Live and let live and let's respect every opinion here.

Thanks and carry on.

[TV Diva Queen]

couldn't the writers have come up with a better last name for Muchey?  Every time Fin calls her name - I expect to see Munch, and in one second I go from extremely excited to completely disappointed.  

[dttruman]

On 11/19/2022 at 7:34 PM, WendyCR72 said:

I get some do not agree with 'shipping couples, but others enjoy doing so. Let's please curb the criticism towards 'shippers. Keep the criticism towards the characters/pairing, not your fellow posters. Live and let live and let's respect every opinion here.

Thanks and carry on.

My complaint about these two (Carisi and Rollins) getting together is that these characters are so superficial and shallow when it comes to their so called moments as a couple. Nothing has really been developed over the last two or three years. Granted isolated incidents have occurred to sort of point things in a certain direction, but we have never really see a continuation of those actions. The only character that has been developed so much, but still has flaws because of unrealistic actions is Benson herself. All the writers over the last few years have concentrated so much on evolving Benson, the other characters are so vague and under developed, and it surprised us again with another unrealistic action. Where Rollins gets to be a lecturer of forensic psychology.

Edited November 21, 2022 by dttruman

[UnikornRainbowz]

I am glad they got a real trans actor to play the victim who lived. But overall this was a really stupid episode, ridiculous I called it from scene one dad cleaned up the scene. In the autopsy where they look at his son's hands they look painted.  And why would dad go all pronoun after death?? Give me a break, he was so transphobic he wiped the scene, and the son wasn't even trans yet just assuming gender roles/pre transitioning, so it was really unbelievable the dad would suddenly be she and her everything.  The TV shows are so damn eager to shove every single woke agenda down viewers throats they defy reality. Just have a crime, and have a solve, we get enough forced PC in real life.

[SunnyBeBe]

On 11/19/2022 at 4:47 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I’m certain Rollins won’t die - they don’t want to enrage the shippers and Rollins fans, who are already angry that Rollins is being written off, plus there’s the situation with Rollins kids. I don’t think modern day SVU would go that dark, killing off a single mom of two kids who’s also a main character. Do you know the specific interview where someone involved with the show said Kathy wouldn’t die? They have misled us but I don’t recall TPTB ever outright lying to the fans.

I’m just curious, why do TPTB care about what Rollins fans think, but disregard what a large group of viewers think about Benson and the dismay that brings them?  Are they impervious to anti Benson sentiments, regardless?   

[Route66]

On 11/22/2022 at 5:33 PM, UnikornRainbowz said:

I am glad they got a real trans actor to play the victim who lived. But overall this was a really stupid episode, ridiculous I called it from scene one dad cleaned up the scene. In the autopsy where they look at his son's hands they look painted.  And why would dad go all pronoun after death?? Give me a break, he was so transphobic he wiped the scene, and the son wasn't even trans yet just assuming gender roles/pre transitioning, so it was really unbelievable the dad would suddenly be she and her everything.  The TV shows are so damn eager to shove every single woke agenda down viewers throats they defy reality. Just have a crime, and have a solve, we get enough forced PC in real life.

Didn't the mom use the name "Ada" and say "She was my best friend." That would suggest at least social transition. It was also never clear if the dad had known anything before the murder.

[dttruman]

20 hours ago, Route66 said:

On 11/22/2022 at 5:33 PM, UnikornRainbowz said:

I am glad they got a real trans actor to play the victim who lived. But overall this was a really stupid episode, ridiculous I called it from scene one dad cleaned up the scene. In the autopsy where they look at his son's hands they look painted.  And why would dad go all pronoun after death?? Give me a break, he was so transphobic he wiped the scene, and the son wasn't even trans yet just assuming gender roles/pre transitioning, so it was really unbelievable the dad would suddenly be she and her everything.  The TV shows are so damn eager to shove every single woke agenda down viewers throats they defy reality. Just have a crime, and have a solve, we get enough forced PC in real life.

Didn't the mom use the name "Ada" and say "She was my best friend." That would suggest at least social transition. It was also never clear if the dad had known anything before the murder.

I can't remember everything clearly, but didn't the parent just try to keep it in the family? Mom seem to be supportive enough of her daughter/son, but she didn't go announcing it all over the neighborhood like most woke groups expect  and then complain about them if they don't. Dad wasn't too happy about it, but he at least didn't kick his kid out of the house because of it, like some parents use to do, but not as much anymore.

Edited November 25, 2022 by dttruman

[Xeliou66]

On 11/21/2022 at 11:25 AM, dttruman said:

My complaint about these two (Carisi and Rollins) getting together is that these characters are so superficial and shallow when it comes to their so called moments as a couple. Nothing has really been developed over the last two or three years. Granted isolated incidents have occurred to sort of point things in a certain direction, but we have never really see a continuation of those actions. The only character that has been developed so much, but still has flaws because of unrealistic actions is Benson herself. All the writers over the last few years have concentrated so much on evolving Benson, the other characters are so vague and under developed, and it surprised us again with another unrealistic action. Where Rollins gets to be a lecturer of forensic psychology.

I have nothing against the people shipping Rollins/Carisi, people can ship whoever they want, and I didn’t mean to come off as insulting to anyone, but I personally sense absolutely zero romantic chemistry between Rollins/Carisi, I never have, I agree 100% with you saying that their relationship comes off as superficial and shallow and I don’t see a spark between them (I do see a spark between Benson/Stabler, I don’t ship them and am not happy about the fact that they’ll inevitably end up together, but they do have chemistry). I feel like the writers forced them together because they are a man and woman of similar age who work together closely, and the writers love soapy drama, so they automatically had them sleep together. I make no secret of the fact that I’m not a shipper and watch the show for the cases and to see the characters work on the cases and I don’t like seeing much of the characters personal lives, but I have nothing against the viewers who do like various ships, I’m just annoyed that the writers have gone full blown soap opera with the show.

And I agree with you about how the overfocus on Benson has resulted in a lot less character development for others, no one is allowed to take the spotlight off of St Olivia. Fin is frequently reduced to nothing but a couple of wisecracks per episode, when he has a lot more to offer, as I said in this episode it would’ve made a lot of sense to have him talk to McDaniels at some point. We still don’t know a lot about Velasco, although I like that they haven’t made him over the top like they did with Kat or make his personal life a mess like they did with Rollins and Amaro. And Carisi is all too often reduced to being Rollins’ boyfriend or of being caught between the SVU squad and his bosses in the DA’s office. I liked how Carisi at least got some meaty scenes in this episode, and I’m really hoping that with Rollins exiting, Carisi will get more material as an ADA.

[tennisgurl]

It was great seeing Greg Grunberg as the featured guest star, he's always great and he did a really good job here, he gave the role a lot more nuance than a less talented actor would have. This episode was a bit frustrating because it has the bones of a really great episode, but instead its just a pretty good episode. The investigation was good, we had a truly disturbing case with a twisted killer, and the ideas in it were all interesting, but the episode was dragged down by all of the needless Olivia and Rollins worship and characters making stupid choices that were never explained. The biggest one being McDaniels being all shocked that, when he cleaned up a crime scene, that it would affect the murder investigation. Just what did he think was going to happen? Anyone could tell you that scrubbing the fingernails of a murder victim before the cops come is a terrible idea, let alone a cop. I did like the bit where the SVU team said that they couldn't prove that the guy they arrested killed Ada because the scene was cleaned, it was like the gravity of what he had done finally hit him like a truck before he started yelling again. I more give credit to the acting than the writing though. 

I am also really confused as to why Ada decided to come out to her best friend right there like that, in what is apparently a crappy bar in a crappy neighborhood where everyone hates gay people and would beat the shit out of her if they realized she was trans. I'm not an expert, but coming out to your tough guy friend by wearing a full dress and wig in the middle of a sketchy bar does not seem like the best way to handle that. I'm glad that McDaniels came around, and I can buy that he would accept her, especially after losing her, but it seemed to come out of nowhere, he went from tampering with evidence so that his friends wouldn't find out he had a trans daughter to be using all of the right pronouns after about three Olivia speeches. I also have no idea why we didn't see more cops around or get some scenes of the brass being on the squad all the time to get results quickly, considering a cops kid was brutally murdered. 

It felt weird that we never talked to the actual killer, except for two seconds when he got arrested. We didn't even get an interrogation scene, I guess that was cut so that we could get a few more Saint Olivia scenes. The person who should really have been leading this investigation and working with McDaniels should have been Fin, considering he also has a son who he found out was LGBTQ and struggled with accepting him at first, he would be the person who should be able to most get through to him. But we cant have that, this is the Saint Olivia show where only she's allowed to give the big speeches and be the most perfect wonderful hero ever and champion of victims and the oppressed. as long as you can ignore her condescension, her hypocrisy, and her insane micromanaging. 

Rollins is now an expert in forensic psychology now? Since when? Did I miss the part where she spent two years in grad school, followed by a four year doctoral program, assuming she already has her four year bachelor degree in psychology or something related? Plus becoming a professor is a whole lot more work, its not the same as just giving lectures to adoring young minds. She's totally underqualified for becoming a professor in anything, let alone forensic psychology, and now I'm just picturing a whole line of qualified professionals who would kill for a tenure track professorship who are going to be understandably pissed when they found out that their dream job went to a cop who decided to grab the job as a comfy retirement present from her boyfriend who has connections. 

[dttruman]

13 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Rollins is now an expert in forensic psychology now? Since when? Did I miss the part where she spent two years in grad school, followed by a four year doctoral program, assuming she already has her four year bachelor degree in psychology or something related? Plus becoming a professor is a whole lot more work, its not the same as just giving lectures to adoring young minds. She's totally underqualified for becoming a professor in anything, let alone forensic psychology, and now I'm just picturing a whole line of qualified professionals who would kill for a tenure track professorship who are going to be understandably pissed when they found out that their dream job went to a cop who decided to grab the job as a comfy retirement present from her boyfriend who has connections. 

I think Rollins had redshirted 2 years then used her other 4 years as a student athlete to finish her forensic psychology grad degree by transferring to the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, Tiffin U., and the Univ of North Dakota. I am sure the writers will fill us in on this insignificant detail that they conveniently left out for later.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

In the courtroom scenes with the big  reveals, I kept hearing Jack McCoy's voice in my head saying, "Redirect, your honor?"  Since this is SVU they instead have all of the leads give bug-eyed stares. 

[WendyCR72]

13 hours ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

In the courtroom scenes with the big  reveals, I kept hearing Jack McCoy's voice in my head saying, "Redirect, your honor?"  Since this is SVU they instead have all of the leads give bug-eyed stares. 

Yeah, if you want good acting on this show, start at S1. Since about S15, deterioration in writing and acting is sadly evident.

[wknt3]

On 1/6/2023 at 4:52 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, if you want good acting on this show, start at S1. Since about S15, deterioration in writing and acting is sadly evident.

I would argue that the deterioration in writing is evident much earlier and it is not a steady downward trend. The final Baer years were not good at all, and I did stop watching regularly during the grimdark over correction to the campy excesses that followed. Things did improve quite a bit after that and the first half of Season 17 in particular was very good. There has been good and bad after that depending on how well the showrunners were able to keep Mariska's ego in check. As far as acting is concerned there have been some fine performances as well. As far as acting is concerned I wouldn't say there has been an across the board drop off. If you were to fast forward through Mariska's monologue you would generally get 5-10 minutes of good or better acting. Ice-T has phoned in a lot of episodes and Mariska has gone full Jenna Maroney, but there has been some great work since Season 15, much of which has elevated some utter dreck to borderline respectability.

Edited January 11, 2023 by wknt3