S02.E07: Arrivederci

[aghst]

So what's going to happen to Jack now that his "uncle" is dead?

He can charge Quentin's credit cards for awhile, has his car.

Someone else is going to have to pull him out of another hole.

He needs to get some tips from Lucia.

Edited December 13, 2022 by aghst

[smartymarty]

I don't think Mia's off the hook. I think Valentina will make her continue sexing her to keep the piano job, completing the irony of Mia trying not to be a sex worker, but having to do so to keep her legitimate job. Also the irony of Valentina making up that Rocco and then Salvatore harassing that woman she wanted to date (can't remember her name) as an excuse to remove them from the lobby, and then Valentina will actually sexually harass Mia in exchange for Mia keeping her job. I just didn't see a change in Valentina, except to the extent that she didn't care about [other woman] anymore.

[Alexander Pope]

18 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

She was also a regular on 2 Broke Girls. Probably not a show that is received as well as others but it was one of her most consistent roles. 

I don't think there's much different about Albie.  He was respectful about the wants of the women he was with even if that got him rejected and played.  I feared potential aggression but we never really saw it towards the women even after he was dumped both times.  I think Portia changed more after being with someone who wasn't as respectful.

I'm not saying that Albie fundamentally changed and became just like the two patriarchs he resisted throughout the show.  What I mean is that he gained something from his transactions with both Lucia and Dominic that made that final shot of the three of them ogling the beautiful woman in unison make a kind of sense it couldn't have made at the beginning of the series.

[DrSpaceman73]

Jennifer coolidgechas been in a bunch of stuff. Was in a few episodes of party Down in addition to others mentioned. A bunch of voice work. 

Was actually on Seinfeld too. She was the girlfriend who wouldn't give him a massage. I just looked that up had no idea that was her. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by DrSpaceman73

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, smartymarty said:

I don't think Mia's off the hook. I think Valentina will make her continue sexing her to keep the piano job, completing the irony of Mia trying not to be a sex worker, but having to do so to keep her legitimate job. Also the irony of Valentina making up that Rocco and then Salvatore harassing that woman she wanted to date (can't remember her name) as an excuse to remove them from the lobby, and then Valentina will actually sexually harass Mia in exchange for Mia keeping her job. I just didn't see a change in Valentina, except to the extent that she didn't care about [other woman] anymore.

Valentina seemed perfectly happy at the prospect of being introduced to the town's gay scene.

[JennyMominFL]

6 hours ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

So here’s a question I haven’t seen addressed.  I get that Jack thought he was doing a nice thing for Portia by taking her to the airport and telling her to get out of the country.  But, how was Portia supposed to just get on a plane and go back home?  You can’t get on a plane back into the US from abroad without showing your passport. They check.  Did she just happen to bring her passport with her on what she thought was going to be an afternoon outing with Jack?   Did she leave it at the hotel?  Were she and Tanya intending to come back?  And if she left it at the hotel, she certainly couldn’t have gone back to get it, what with Jack’s stern warning and all.  Any ideas would be welcome, the passport thing has been eating at me.  

I travel in Europe a lot and Italy is one country where they tell tourists to have their passports on them at all times. Ive never been asked myself, but i post in Italy travel forums and people get stopped all the time and have to show a passport. Someone recently posted about getting stopped randomly in Piazza Navonna and having to show it. Long story short, I leave my passport in my my Hotel/Air Bnb in other European countries , but not in Italy.

Edited December 14, 2022 by JennyMominFL

[JennyMominFL]

I had to come back and add that its unlikely she had a direct flight to the states, especially with easy Jet, She probably was flying to a bigger city for an international flight. If she was flying within the EU she didnt need a passport, She would to get on her international flight.

If I though the mob was after me i would want out of Sicily now.  I would take my behind to the nearest  embassy to Paris, London, wherever that easy jet flight was heading to, and get an emergency passport.

Edited December 13, 2022 by JennyMominFL

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 12/11/2022 at 10:29 PM, slowpoked said:

Well, I’ll say this - Portia and Albie do deserve each other. They’re both dim bulbs.

She said she wanted an adventure........ 😄😄😄

On 12/11/2022 at 10:46 PM, Jaundiced Eye said:

Did Daphne fuck Ethan and turn him back into a real boy again? Psycho Ethan was really disturbing.

LOL, Cameron was the psycho.  Ethan reacted normally.  

On 12/11/2022 at 10:43 PM, Milburn Stone said:

Mike White is a genius.

Ahhhhhhhh.  I feel like I could write like Mike White.  Every season is the same,  Insert sex harassment here, insert masturbation scene here, insert vomit scene here, lickety split, there's your Season 3.

On 12/11/2022 at 10:49 PM, Whimsy said:

I don’t understand why Portia was wearing all the stuff to “hide” when she literally did nothing wrong. She should’ve immediately gone to the hotel to see what was up with Tanya, after calling the police. 

Isn't that just her normal style?  

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 12/11/2022 at 10:55 PM, Samsnee said:

Albie screwed himself over. Only a complete idiot thinks a hooker isn’t trying to pull one over on him. 

I understand they threw in the blackmail plot, But I still find it so unbelievable that a father and grandfather would let that happen.  

On 12/11/2022 at 10:57 PM, slowpoked said:

So was the implication that Ethan and Daphne did it on the cove? And because he’s now even with his friend, Ethan has “forgiven” Harper and can finally have sex with her? 

I assumed part of the issue was that Ethan could not see her sexually.  The threat of Cameron made him all of a sudden become so possessive and maybe therefore attracted to her?

I feel bad for Meghann Fahy that she got that ridiculous character.  How many times did she have to give the damn speech about not being a victim.  She was so boring!  Oh well, the jump from Hallmark to HBO is pretty big.

While I thought about the kids not being Cameron's, Daphne DID threaten Harper to stay away from Cameron because of the kids.  So I come back to thinking they are actually Cameron's kids but Cameron is just a psychopath.

On 12/11/2022 at 11:02 PM, ShannaB said:

 I don't think that Nic guy was going to shoot Tanya.  Drowning would have been the objective because an autopsy would have shown drugs ad booze in her system and there were plenty of partygoers who witnessed her drunken behavior.

Yes, and that was what the rope was for.  Tie her up, then untie her and push her over.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 12/11/2022 at 11:09 PM, aghst said:

It wouldn't be the prenup, it would be a will.

Why would she put him as the beneficiary in her will if she had doubts about Greg?

But she didn't really, up until right before he left.

On 12/11/2022 at 11:17 PM, ahpny said:

Niccolo normally carries a gun, so that wasn't conclusively incriminating.

Why would you believe Nick's word when he's part of the murder plot?  LOL he could have said anything about the gun, the point is it's not to be believed!

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 12/12/2022 at 3:43 AM, Traveller519 said:

So Shane (season 1) is a psychopath, Cameron is a sociopath. Here's to watching them drive each other off a cliff while skiing at The White Lotus Kitzbühel in Season 3.

I may not totally agree about Shane, but I 100% agree on Cameron.

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 12/12/2022 at 10:40 AM, shapeshifter said:

• "she has no women friends, like, at all. I'm, like, basically her best friend now, and I barely know her. Isn't that crazy? Why does she have no female friends?"

Daphne deals with Cameron's conquests of any female in Daphne's orbit by seducing those women's partners, the result being that they are both isolated from any potentially genuine friendships.

Personally I interpret Daphne not having female friends is because Cameron probably tries to fuck all of them or does or has.

[Ms Blue Jay]

23 hours ago, aghst said:

I've seen her face all the time but what were her big roles for which she's best known?

Legally Blonde, and the the movies by Christopher Guest.  And American Pie.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

10 hours ago, DigitalCount said:

When Daphne made the remark about her trainer, I immediately thought she was saying she had the trainer's kid (at least the older one). I think perhaps the main reason why I don't think she was actually talking about how her kids help her cope is that she's never been coy about how much she loves the kids. I think she may have mentioned them in every episode. I don't see a reason for her to bring up her "trainer" and then oh, surprise, it's actually her kids; she'd just say "my kids get me through." Also, when she says "oops, another time then"...it's hard to describe, but a bit of her facial armor slips, and her expression is conveying "yes, that's exactly what I meant, what's it to you?"

Daphne was threatening Harper.  Don't fuck my husband, we have two small children together.

Or I guess she was bragging to Harper that she had a blonde child with her blonde trainer, but to me, that interpretation is a lot weirder.  She seemed really sad, and kind of threatening, so I assumed it was the former.

You guys are making me think more and more about this though and now my mind is a swirl lol.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[AzureOwl]

5 hours ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

Did she just happen to bring her passport with her on what she thought was going to be an afternoon outing with Jack?   Did she leave it at the hotel?  Were she and Tanya intending to come back?

Palermo is a three and a half hour drive from Taormina. It is logical for Portia to bring her passport along for what is supposed to be a trip of a couple of days that far away from her hotel, even if they were planning to come back. 

Tanya and Portia's trip to Palermo wasn't a day trip like the ones the Di Grassos were taking. This was going 2/3 of the way across the island for multiple days,  

Edited December 14, 2022 by AzureOwl

[edhopper]

After thinking about it for a few days, I'm not happy with the ending. Mike White probably thought he was being clever and ironic having Tanya heroically escape her assassination only to die in a ditzy manner. I didn't find it either clever or ironic, only frustrating.  And more so when I realized Greg got away with it and is now filthy rich with Tanya's millions.

[PurpleTentacle]

2 hours ago, JennyMominFL said:

I travel in Europe a lot and Italy is one country where they tell tourists to have their passports on them at all times. Ive never been asked myself, but i post in Italy travel forums and people get stopped all the time and have to show a passport, Someone recently posted about getting stopped randomly in Piazza Navonna and having to show it. Long story short, I leave my passport in my my Hotel/Air Bnb in other European countries , but not in Italy.

I assume they are telling all americans that, to not have to get into the racism of it all. Most illegal immigrants from africa to the EU will land in Italy first and that is why they'll check black and brown people's identification there. If you are white, you'll never get checked.

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I assumed part of the issue was that Ethan could not see her sexually.  The threat of Cameron made him all of a sudden become so possessive and maybe therefore attracted to her?

I'm not sure. I think the other interpretation that he didn't see himself as a being worthy of sex, because he had been cucked so much and his self-worth undermined, is also valid. After he actually stood up for himself with Cameron and then got a good screwing by Daphne his self confidence came back and with that his sex drive.

[Ms Blue Jay]

It was hard for me to see Theo James play such an asshole.  I basically fell in love with him because of "The Time Traveler's Wife".  But, I will say he definitely has range.  Because I hated Cameron.

[Rebecca berkowit]

11 hours ago, AzureOwl said:

Palermo is a three and a half hour drive from Taormina. It is logical for Portia to bring her passport along for what is supposed to be a trip of a couple of days that far away from her hotel, even if they were planning to come back. 

Tanya and Portia's trip to Palermo wasn't a day trip like the ones the Di Grassos were taking. This was going 2/3 of the way across the island for multiple days,  

I meant the day trip with Jack, once they got to Palermo.  They only stayed the night wherever they were because he got drunk.  (Actually, he was told to keep her away from the party at the villa, but she didn’t know that).    I was just in Italy and I don’t remember being told to take my passport with me wherever I went, but another poster said that is the case, so I’ll go with it.  I also like the interpretation that she flew to another city or EU country and immediately went to the embassy there claiming her passport was stolen.  That would account for her trying to disguise herself at the Sicily airport.  (Although was she together enough to even think of doing that?  She’s so flaky).  
 

With respect to the trainer, if the scene with Daphne showing the pictures was meant to convey that the kids belonged to the trainer, that just didn’t come across to me.  I guess because to me, the actor playing Cameron is not exactly dark-haired.   He looks like he was one of those people who is really blond as a kid and then it darkens.  (In fact, it almost looked like his hair has been dyed to be lighter- is the actor normally brunet?).  The character also read as WASPy to me, what with the Yale and the wealth, which was supposed to have been inherited, (he was already wealthy in college) in contrast to Ethan who had to work for it and was not WASPy.  I didn’t look at his eyes too closely. But the kids in the picture didn’t look sufficiently different that you’d go “oh, they’re definitely the trainer’s.”  They looked like little kids that this couple would have who start out blond and then darken as they get older.   Especially since the mother was very light.  Now, if she had been married to ETHAN and had those kids, maybe.  But the resemblance for me was enough that the whole “they’re not Cameron’s kids” didn’t register.  But then, I have really dark, almost black hair, so to me anyone with hair like Cameron’s is basically blond.  I know, it’s weird.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Rebecca berkowit

[Milburn Stone]

19 hours ago, edhopper said:

After thinking about it for a few days, I'm not happy with the ending. Mike White probably thought he was being clever and ironic having Tanya heroically escape her assassination only to die in a ditzy manner. I didn't find it either clever or ironic, only frustrating.  And more so when I realized Greg got away with it and is now filthy rich with Tanya's millions.

I really came to love Tanya, and I feel like Mike White wanted me to. In her last days she began to show qualities we didn't suspect. She cared enough about Portia to try to warn her off Jack--and to do it in a way that would let her down easy. With the plot, she showed more ability to put 2 and 2 together than we might have given her credit for (and certainly more than the evildoers did). She showed tremendous courage in shooting the evildoers, since it was clear that firing a gun into people went against all her instincts. (Moral instincts which themselves were to her credit.) And finally, her jumping off the boat required bravery. All of these things gave her death, for me, a quality of sadness bordering on tragedy. A quality emphasized by Mike White's lingering, reverent shots of her body in the water.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Milburn Stone

[shapeshifter]

At 31:18 Niccoló gracefully and effortlessly climbs up the ladder affixed to the yacht, adjacent to the boat he has just moored there. 
Too bad for Tanya that she missed that. 
Although unless she took off her clunky, chunky, high heels, she could have still fallen off of the ladder and fatally hit her head and fallen into the water.

Am I the only one who missed that her head hit the boat when she fell and had to replay it after reading about it?

[ichbin]

18 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

On 12/12/2022 at 2:26 PM, dmc said:

this is one of the most unbelievable elements of that plot which was totally unbelievable.  Portia getting on a plane not knowing what was up with Tanya.  I feel like I have been defending Portia because she's a 20 year old idiot...but even me at 20...would not had left until I had heard on gotten confirmation with my boss.  As an assistant what if Tanya wanted to extend her stay or whatever...

If my life had just been threatened in a foreign country, where I don't know who I can trust? Screw my shitty job! I'm out of there!

At this point why owe any allegiance to Tanya who treated her like a possession she owned expecting her to sit in her room 24/7 waiting to be called to attention, also didn't immediately spell out Jack's special relationship with Quentin knowing full well that Portia and Jack were also having a sexual relationship, and most importantly was the reason Portia was in a dangerous situation in the first place.  Jack actually wound up showing more care for her by warning her off.  I'd high tail it out of there too!  I'd rather deal with the authorities questioning me after I was safely back home rather than stick around and take the risk of any further involvement with the people Jack warned her about. 

[slowpoked]

3 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

I really came to love Tanya, and I feel like Mike White wanted me to. In her last days she began to show qualities we didn't suspect. She cared enough about Portia to try to warn her off Jack--and to do it in a way that would let her down easy. With the plot, she showed more ability to put 2 and 2 together than we might have given her credit for (and certainly more than the evildoers did). She showed tremendous courage in shooting the evildoers, since it was clear that firing a gun into people went against all her instincts. (Moral instincts which themselves were to her credit.) She did not go gentle in that good night! And finally, her jumping off the boat required bravery. All of these things gave her death, for me, a quality of sadness bordering on tragedy. A quality emphasized by Mike White's lingering, reverent shots of her body in the water.

I think what I will miss the most about Tanya being gone is Jennifer Coolidge herself tweeting about the show. I recently followed her account - actually, start of S2 - and she tweets the funniest and sweetest things about the show. Her farewell tweet was really touching, and funny at the same time.

She also gave a shout-out to the "high-end gays" a few weeks ago.

Tanya's not the best character obviously, but I love how she can be both worldly and clueless, and her deadpan delivery. Love that line about arancini costing only a dollar, and trying to get the attention of the "queen of Sicily."

[Ms Blue Jay]

I echo some others' thoughts about Tanya here.  I was rolling my eyes to see she was in S2, and she did annoy me, and yet....................................... I think it will be weird for S3 to be without her.  She's like the pillar of the show.  The totem, or whatever you call it.

It's almost like the voice of the audience.  

Edited December 14, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[MrsR]

21 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Was she wearing plate armour? How do you "get weighed down by your clothes"?

Natalie had a fear of deep water and could not swim. She was wearing a long night gown and a long down filled coat when she was found. Yes, you can be weighted down by your heavy wet clothes.

Have you never experienced wearing wet jeans?

[shapeshifter]

34 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I echo some others' thoughts about Tanya here.  I was rolling my eyes to see she was in S2, and she did annoy me, and yet....................................... I think it will be weird for S3 to be without her.  She's like the pillar of the show.  The totem, or whatever you call it.

"Totem" is a perfect description of what Tanya is to White Lotus.
I think she can still be that in season 3.
Hah! I can picture a hideous sculpture of her in a centrally-located fountain in all White Lotus Hotels as part of a wrongful death settlement. 


The PrimeTimer award for "Breaking Up Is Hard To Do!: Couple You Wish Would Call It Quits" includes 2 couples from White Lotus:

• The White Lotus - Ethan and Harper
• The White Lotus - Tanya and Greg

I cannot decide which to vote for:

• Since Tanya is dead, do I vote for Ethan and Harper to break up?
  (I did not see Ethan and Harper's lovemaking scene in this final episode as a sea change in their relationship.)
• Or do I vote for Tanya and Greg in hopes that Tanya had texted her lawyer to annul her marriage and that the PT Award category about a Couple Calling It Quits could include Greg finding out he does not inherit anything because Tanya's millions bought her a lawyer that did a lightning fast annulment?

I'm leaning towards voting for a posthumous Tanya and Greg breakup in hopes that Ethan and Harper will go back to their sterile marriage with Cameron and Daphne out of the picture. 

[carrps]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Am I the only one who missed that her head hit the boat when she fell and had to replay it after reading about it?

Yeah, I missed it, too. Then, we saw the Mike White interview, and they replayed the scene, and there was a noticeable thud. Then, we saw the end of the episode itself, and we couldn't hear the thud. Really weird.

[shapeshifter]

Just now, carrps said:

Yeah, I missed it, too. Then, we saw the Mike White interview, and they replayed the scene, and there was a noticeable thud. Then, we saw the end of the episode itself, and we couldn't hear the thud. Really weird.

I did hear the thud when I replayed it after reading the interview, but did not see contact of the head with the boat. 
I'll probably have to rewatch it again, LOL.

[aghst]

What about the young couple from season 1?

Rachel had good reasons to leave her husband, the rich, entitled tool.

But she'd become destitute so she swallowed her pride.

[smartymarty]

I didn't see a down jacket on Tanya before she fell into the water.

Regarding passports, I always either have the passport on me or a copy of the front page. If the passport, then the copy is in the hotel.

Though Harper and Ethan finally had sex, they looked like back to dull form. I don't think anything really changed. Hopefully they don't agree to vacation with the other couple again, though. I kind of think they won't, since Harper hates Cameron and Ethan got his confidence back.

[PurpleTentacle]

1 hour ago, MrsR said:

Natalie had a fear of deep water and could not swim. She was wearing a long night gown and a long down filled coat when she was found. Yes, you can be weighted down by your heavy wet clothes.

So the problem was that she couldn't swim, not that her clothes weighed her down. Sorry, but wet clothes have about the buoyancy of water, since they are mostly water. They are not going to weigh you down enough for you to not be able to swim anymore.

[carrps]

4 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

So the problem was that she couldn't swim, not that her clothes weighed her down. Sorry, but wet clothes have about the buoyancy of water, since they are mostly water. They are not going to weigh you down enough for you to not be able to swim anymore.

This is not true. Fabric is absorbent and becomes very heavy when wet. If she fell in the water dressed only in a light silk peignor, maybe she'd had survived. Any absorbent fabric will get very heavy. Think about the difference between a wet and dry towel.

[PurpleTentacle]

Just now, carrps said:

This is not true. Fabric is absorbent and becomes very heavy when wet. If she fell in the water dressed only in a light silk peignor, maybe she'd had survived. Any absorbent fabric will get very heavy. Think about the difference between a wet and dry towel.

Throw a towel in a pool. See if it sinks like a stone. Just because something is heavy outside the water doesn't mean it's heavy inside water. Something that is mostly water now has about the buoyancy of water. Wet clothes dragging you down are a myth.

This woman could not swim and people are making up some convoluted theories why she might have drowned. It's bizarre.

[Whimsy]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

I did hear the thud when I replayed it after reading the interview, but did not see contact of the head with the boat. 
I'll probably have to rewatch it again, LOL.

I both heard the thud and saw her head hit the boat on my first (and only) viewing. 

1 hour ago, smartymarty said:

I didn't see a down jacket on Tanya before she fell into the water.

The down jacket was in reference to Natalie Wood, not Tanya. 

21 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

So the problem was that she couldn't swim, not that her clothes weighed her down. Sorry, but wet clothes have about the buoyancy of water, since they are mostly water. They are not going to weigh you down enough for you to not be able to swim anymore.

I learned you should kick off your shoes if you ever find yourself immersed in water fully clothed. We also learned in the Coast Guard how to to take off your pants and turn them into makeshift life jacket so they don’t weigh you down. But, that was like 25 years ago for me, so idk if other studies have been done. A quick Google search still doesn’t give any definitive answers with both schools of thought showing up. Regardless, this is a bit off-topic since Tanya dies due to her head wound, not her clothes. 

[PurpleTentacle]

1 minute ago, Whimsy said:

Clothes most certainly can weigh you down. You should kick off your shoes if you ever find yourself immersed in water fully clothed. We also learned in the Coast Guard how to to take off your pants and turn them into makeshift life jacket. 

That both has nothing to do with you being weighed down. With shoes you can't tread water as effectively and your pants are better used as a life jacket than useless on your legs. That you can use the pants as a life jacket should be a clue that they are in fact buoyant.

The only thing that is true is that the drag from bulky clothes can make it harder to swim, but again, it's not their weight that is the problem. Also any half way competent swimmer would be able to take off a down jacket. It's not a corset.

We are talking about a woman who could not swim here. She could have fallen into the water completely naked and she probably would have drowned all the same. It's not a convoluted series of events how this happened. You can't swim, you fall into the ocean, you drown.

[JennyMominFL]

1 hour ago, smartymarty said:

I didn't see a down jacket on Tanya before she fell into the water.

Regarding passports, I always either have the passport on me or a copy of the front page. If the passport, then the copy is in the hotel.

Though Harper and Ethan finally had sex, they looked like back to dull form. I don't think anything really changed. Hopefully they don't agree to vacation with the other couple again, though. I kind of think they won't, since Harper hates Cameron and Ethan got his confidence back.

Keep a copy on your phone too

28 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Throw a towel in a pool. See if it sinks like a stone. Just because something is heavy outside the water doesn't mean it's heavy inside water. Something that is mostly water now has about the buoyancy of water. Wet clothes dragging you down are a myth.

This woman could not swim and people are making up some convoluted theories why she might have drowned. It's bizarre.

 Agreed.In the military, member are taught how to use their clothes as floation devices. Sailors can use their Dungarees as flotation devices and , as a Marine, i was taught how to use my camis as floatation devices.

Edited December 14, 2022 by JennyMominFL

[carrps]

TIL. Thanks. I guess I'm thinking of fabric tangling around a person's legs. If you panic, you can make a bad situation worse.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, carrps said:

TIL. Thanks. I guess I'm thinking of fabric tangling around a person's legs. If you panic, you can make a bad situation worse.

And Tanya in this episode is an example of how panicking can make a bad situation worse.

[peachmangosteen]

Let's move on from the Natale Wood discussion.

[izabella]

On 12/13/2022 at 5:48 AM, Rebecca berkowit said:

So is it definite that the kids aren’t his?  I saw a review that seemed to say this was a fact.  I still doubt she would have more than one kid by another man, even for revenge.  One, maybe, by accident.  But Cameron is a good looking, smart, successful guy, I don’t see why she’d deliberately want to conceive children with some dumb trainer, no matter how blond.

The actress was very good in that scene.  Her face fell, subtly, and there were tears in her eyes.  And then she just, in a fraction of a second, pulled herself back together and asked Ethan to go on the walk.  She came up with a plan right there to “do what you have to do to be ok with it.”  That’s her mantra.  

I thought it was really obvious that at least one of those kids was the trainer's.  To me, there is no reason she would tell Harper about her handsome, blue-eyed trainer, offer to show her a pictures, and then show a picture of her cute blonde, blue-eyed kid instead. 

As to why she would have a kid with her trainer, it's because Cameron cheats on her every chance he gets even when she is on vacation with him, and Daphne knows it.  She had a kid with her trainer because she was doing exactly what she told Harper and Ethan to do - her mantra, do what you have to do to be ok with it.   Having her trainer's kid is what she did to be ok with Cameron constantly cheating on her.  That's also why she immediately jumped up to take Ethan to the island so she, and/or Ethan, could do what they had to do to be ok with Harper and Cameron kissing or screwing or whatever they did. 

[aghst]

The parentage of the kids don't matter.  The point is, Daphne doesn't see herself as a victim or will allow herself to become a victim.

So she will get vengeance on Cameron for his extramarital affairs and that vengeance may or may not include bearing another man's child or children and making Cameron pay to raise them as his.

[Rebecca berkowit]

51 minutes ago, izabella said:

I thought it was really obvious that at least one of those kids was the trainer's.  To me, there is no reason she would tell Harper about her handsome, blue-eyed trainer, offer to show her a pictures, and then show a picture of her cute blonde, blue-eyed kid instead. 

As to why she would have a kid with her trainer, it's because Cameron cheats on her every chance he gets even when she is on vacation with him, and Daphne knows it.  She had a kid with her trainer because she was doing exactly what she told Harper and Ethan to do - her mantra, do what you have to do to be ok with it.   Having her trainer's kid is what she did to be ok with Cameron constantly cheating on her.  That's also why she immediately jumped up to take Ethan to the island so she, and/or Ethan, could do what they had to do to be ok with Harper and Cameron kissing or screwing or whatever they did. 

I get that, but I’d still rather my kids’ dad be a Yalie MBA than a trainer.  But that may be just me.  But I mean, she must’ve married Cameron for a reason, right?  It couldn’t have been what a nice, upstanding guy he is!  She wanted those genes!

Edited December 14, 2022 by Rebecca berkowit

[izabella]

7 minutes ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

I get that, but I’d still rather my kids’ dad be a Yalie MBA than a trainer.  But that may be just me.  But I mean, she must’ve married Cameron for a reason, right?  It couldn’t have been what a nice, upstanding guy he is!  

Well, he's rich.  There's that.  That means a lot to Daphne, or she would have left him the first or second time she found out he was cheating.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Everyone refers to Cameron as being rich or calls him "the rich guy" when it was Ethan who sold his company and had a big payout.  Can anyone clarify Cameron's money situation?  I don't remember it.  He seems really desperate for money.  He refused to pay the hookers and he's certainly trying to con Ethan out of money as well.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[izabella]

He's an investment banker who is not above insider trading.  He's rich.  He's the kind of rich where his wife can just randomly rent a palazzo for an overnight, with full staff, for two people just for fun without thinking about it for even a moment.

Quote

He refused to pay the hookers and he's certainly trying to con Ethan out of money as well.

He didn't refuse.  He gave Lucia some of the money right away, but just didn't have enough cash on him at the time for the full amount, mostly becasue of how much extra she tacked on for the drugs they all took. In this episode, we saw him give her the rest of the cash in an envelope when she was at the bar, and she ran out joyfully and let Mia know.

He wasn't conning Ethan out of money.  He was implying he would have liked to get a heads up that Ethan was selling, so Cameron could do some insider trading with that information.

Edited December 14, 2022 by izabella

[Ms Blue Jay]

I thought she planned that excursion well in advance, but point taken.

[Rebecca berkowit]

9 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Everyone refers to Cameron as being rich or calls him "the rich guy" when it was Ethan who sold his company and had a big payout.  Can anyone clarify Cameron's money situation?  I don't remember it.  He seems really desperate for money.  He refused to pay the hookers and he's certainly trying to con Ethan out of money as well.

He was definitely rich before Ethan was.  They went on the trip to celebrate Ethan finally being in the same league as him.  He did eventually pay Lucia. So he may have just been being an entitled dick, figuring he would pay her when he was good and ready, and not appreciating that she really needed the money.  As for asking Ethan about investing with him, he was not so much trying to con him as asking him for insider information to help him get ahead at his firm, because he is unethical and a privileged dick. 

Edited December 14, 2022 by Rebecca berkowit

[Ms Blue Jay]

He was definitely an asshole about paying Lucia.  She confronted both him and Ethan and didn't get paid until the end of the series.  He was avoiding it.  If you purchase any other service you can't negotiate and pay part and run away and then be demanded to pay the rest later.  I mean I guess you can but it's just asshole behaviour.  

[chocolatine]

Regarding the paternity of Daphne's children, is it possible that Cameron is sterile? I can see him as someone for whom children are more of a status symbol than a heartfelt desire, so he could be OK with giving his name to another man's children.

9 minutes ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

As for asking Ethan about investing with him, he was not so much trying to con him as asking him for insider information to help him get ahead at his firm, because he is unethical and a privileged dick. 

Insider trading is not just unethical, it is illegal and could have landed both Cameron and Ethan in prison if Ethan had done what Cameron asked. That one exchange showed us that Cameron is happy to break the law in order to make profits, which can catch up to him at any moment. Daphne tries hard to not be a "victim" of his cheating, but it's his business practices that are a much bigger threat to their family, IMO.

[izabella]

12 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

He was definitely an asshole about paying Lucia.  She confronted both him and Ethan and didn't get paid until the end of the series.  He was avoiding it.  If you purchase any other service you can't negotiate and pay part and run away and then be demanded to pay the rest later.  I mean I guess you can but it's just asshole behaviour.  

Yes, absolutely, he's a dick.  It's amazing how much of an awful person he is, all in one guy.  I was answering the question of whether he wasn't really rich and couldn't afford to pay them, not whether he was a dick about paying. 

I think when Lucia confronted him, he was with his wife and Harper and Ethan, about to go into dinner.  He was a jerk with her, but he was scared Daphne would hear them.  For all that he is blatant about his cheating, he didn't want Lucia and Mia asking for money in front of Daphne.  I guess that would have shattered the "don't ask, don't tell" facade they keep with each other. 

Edited December 14, 2022 by izabella