S43.E09: What About the Big Girls

[LadyChatts]

3 hours ago, Nashville said:

A good spot in terms of making a deep run, maybe - but in terms of winning?  Not so sure (see below).

I dunno; IMHO the entire Karla/Sami interaction reflected better on Sami’s game skills and influence than it did Karla’s. I saw their interaction as less about Sami needing Karla’s approval, and more about Sami’s (apparently accurate) perception that to present the “target James” option in such a light would be the optimal approach to effectively sway/play Karla.

Another point of concern for Karla; her game is already being considered worrisome enough to others to warrant targeting/weakening.

This is why Karla's edit intrigues me.  I feel like either she's playing a great game, but it's not being shown because they are either saving it for flashbacks in a later episode, or she doesn't win (and therefore showing how masterful she's been would be a moot point if it took away from the actual winner).  Or she's not as good as I'm thinking she might be.  James said in one of his exit interviews that Cassidy was his actual number one over Karla, but that's not how it came across.  I also think about Sami looking at Karla at tribal council last week like he was waiting for her approval on something.  It was just weird how he went from saying with confidence that he wanted to control the game, to saying he wanted to make sure Karla was okay with voting off James.  

We also saw Ryan talk about wanting to get rid of Cassidy, in part so he could break apart Coco and not get accused of riding the tribes coattails, but then Karla axed James and made that move first.  With how S41 was edited and Erika getting next to no content for most of the season, it's hard to say who might actually win.  Right now from an editing standpoint I feel like Karla and Cody have the best chance, maybe Jesse and Sami.  Not sure on the rest if it is an Erika type win, because that throws more people in contention.

Edited November 18, 2022 by LadyChatts

[blackwing]

Satisfying episode, I am so happy that James is out.  He was an arrogant player.  His over-the-top reactions to receiving votes, in a game in which people vote against each other, were odd.  His fixation on trying to punish people who voted against him was irritating.  His declaration that anybody who goes against him will get cut made me happy to see his face when Jeffy made the announcement.

On the other hand... Ryan.  Big body, apparently strong, up until this challenge, not particularly great at challenges.  But I agreed that it was a good time to get him out.  I think Cassidy is useless and hasn't done a thing.  Gabler is useless and nobody respects him.  So Ryan was a good choice.  He seems like a really nice guy.  Not sure why Jeffy wasn't fawning all over him like he has fawned over the young bohunks in the past.  Maybe Jeffy got asked to tone it down, or maybe production edits things out now, because it has always been creepy how obsessed he is with the young males.

I'm trying to figure out why Noelle needed to use her steal a vote on Owen.  Or why she told Sami.  I don't get why Sami was going to vote with Noelle and Owen to vote out James but then he pretty much went and spilled to James the exact plan.  He said it was to make James comfortable, but I think it was so he can play both sides.  The obvious vote was Owen, and James never suspected he was in danger at all.  Why not have Noelle and Sami just tell James they want to get rid of Owen.  I don't think James would have doubted them or suspected anything.

On 11/17/2022 at 5:53 AM, weaver said:

I'm rooting for Sami or Owen.  Sami is only 19 and played so far a very good strategic game IMO

I don't care for either.  I think I read here that Owen said somebody stopped him on the street and recognised him as from Survivor and then called him Woo.  That sounds about apt.  Owen has proven to be as useless as Woo.  But while Woo was good at challenges and was just an all around dim bulb (possibly one of the dumbest contestants we have ever had on this show), Owen just seems utterly pathetic to me.  He's already admitted that he hated being Asian while growing up and wished he were white.  Lost all respect from me, I mean come on man, be proud of who you are and what makes you different instead of hating the circumstances of your birth and wishing you were white.

From a game play perspective, he just seems like such a sad sack that is always mopey that nobody wants to work with him or strategise with him.  His declaration at one of the tribal councils that he was just hoping that somebody would let him have a seat on the bus was so needy.  I don't think we have seen him trying to do anything, he is always just a follower that waits for somebody to tell him what to do, and he hopes that he isn't the target.

I don't care for Sami either... Sami has an arrogance that rivals James.  It's just that he disguises it better and he acts like he's always a team player.  I'm amazed that people keep telling him secrets, we have seen multiple times now that he just goes and immediately tells the rival person the secret he was just given.  I'm hoping that burns him at some point.

15 hours ago, Skooma said:

There are plenty of Cody fans including me.  Please don't assume a few people posting on a forum that don't like him make an overwhelming majority against him. 

Psychologically what I've seen on forums is that once several people declare they either like or don't like a contestant then there tends to be a piling on and people who think otherwise tend to keep silent not wanting to feel like an outcast on the forum.  One of the worst features of these sites.  This forum is not bad on the whole though.  But the old Television Without Pity site was notoriously horrid that way though especially in the forums that Miss Allie ruled the roost and banned people who disagreed even mildly with anything she said.  This forum is a breath of fresh air compared to that tragic site.

Anyway not saying anyone here is trying to force their point of view over anyone else.  Just it is human psychology to want to fit in with the group usually.

I like Cody as well, he is probably my favourite.  I like his attitude about life and I was happy to see that he won immunity.

Fully agree that certain moderators at TWoP ruled the roost.  Miss Alli on the Amazing Race site was particularly interesting... if you dared to not like the teams she liked or if you hated the ones she did like (usually the teams of young good-looking alpha males), watch out!  Three days off.

[Taeolas]

15 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I'm trying to figure out why Noelle needed to use her steal a vote on Owen.  Or why she told Sami.  I don't get why Sami was going to vote with Noelle and Owen to vote out James but then he pretty much went and spilled to James the exact plan.  He said it was to make James comfortable, but I think it was so he can play both sides.  The obvious vote was Owen, and James never suspected he was in danger at all.  Why not have Noelle and Sami just tell James they want to get rid of Owen.  I don't think James would have doubted them or suspected anything.

I think she played it as insurance against KiP. She, Owen and Sami were the three votes needed... but if James got even a hint of a wiff that Owen wasn't the target, he could KiP her Steal-a-Vote and suddenly they're short the votes. And with the way Tribal Councils go with the long discussions, there was a non-zero chance that James might get a hint he might be a target. (he didn't but he could). 

So burning the Steal a Vote removes the advantage and makes sure she has 2 votes at least, and more importantly makes sure James can't take her advantage.

[DEL901]

5 minutes ago, Taeolas said:

I think she played it as insurance against KiP. She, Owen and Sami were the three votes needed... but if James got even a hint of a wiff that Owen wasn't the target, he could KiP her Steal-a-Vote and suddenly they're short the votes. And with the way Tribal Councils go with the long discussions, there was a non-zero chance that James might get a hint he might be a target. (he didn't but he could). 

So burning the Steal a Vote removes the advantage and makes sure she has 2 votes at least, and more importantly makes sure James can't take her advantage.

Agree. It made James confident she was voting his way.   

[Guest]

53 minutes ago, LadyChatts said:

James said in one of his exit interviews that Cassidy was his actual number one over Karla, but that's not how it's came across. 

When Cody and Jesse were planning who to vote out based on who the first group voted out, they said "if James is gone, we can get rid of Cassidy and that will isolate Karla", but then they didn't. If Cassidy and James were the true power couple on Coco, it makes a little more sense why they kept Cassidy even after James was gone. With James gone, perhaps Cody & Jesse's thinking was really that Cassidy was more isolated and they could work better with her? And their comments about Karla were just a minor part of a much longer discussion, and the editors only showed that part because we're supposed to care more about Karla than Cassidy, for whatever reason? (I mean, I can think of some reasons, but I won't speculate because I don't know for sure)

It would certainly help explain why Karla helped vote James out...maybe she also wanted to isolate Cassidy to work with her.

-

Short version: Cody/Jesse and Karla were both thinking "If Player A is gone, their chief ally Player B will have to work with me", but the show possibly misrepresented who Player A and Player B were.

I dunno.

[bankerchick]

3 hours ago, blackwing said:

Miss Alli on the Amazing Race site was particularly interesting... if you dared to not like the teams she liked or if you hated the ones she did like (usually the teams of young good-looking alpha males), watch out!  Three days off.

I got a 3 day vacation for trying to defend the much hated girls on the family version of Amazing Race because even though they were annoying, they were also teenagers who had just lost their father.

On topic, I also like Cody.

[North of Eden]

5 hours ago, Kitty Redstone said:

I remember her intense hate-on for Parvati (someone I didn't care for one way or the other) drove me away from reading the recaps.  It was that disturbing.

Oh, yes Miss Allie was the worst. She took a lot of the fun out of posting. I must have had three different Screen names because I kept getting banned for ridiculous stuff like on BIG BROTHER...I was encouraging viewers to VOTE ALLISON and VOTE OFTEN....that was enough to get banned for shouting and telling people what to do. This site is like everything that was good about TWOP and leaving out the bad stuff like over-moderation.

[GenerationX]

I've watched the show since the beginning (and read/posted about it in MightyBigTV and TWoP under the same screen name), and I just don't have the motivation to keep track of who was on which tribe and who is aligned with whom anymore.  To quote Peter Gibbons from Office Space, "It's not that I'm lazy, it's that I don't care."

There's no original tribe loyalty in the game now.  Nor is there (much of) any loyalty between two "aligned" people.  So, I don't feel the need to remember who were originally placed together.  The game is now played around advantages and blindsides.  The blindsides are so frequent now they may outnumber the obvious boots.

As a viewer who just wants to be entertained, I mostly root for unique game play, such as Noelle's stealing a vote from an ally ploy.  Or people who are particularly clever or witty.  If I don't see any of that, I just root for the eye candy to at least make the jury.

Edited November 19, 2022 by GenerationX

[jabRI]

I don't think there's any true alliances anymore, thanks to the myriad idols/advantages that i don't even try to keep track of anymore.  I don't feel like re-watching it, why did one group get pb&j?  did they finish the challenge first?

[Lantern7]

Still not feeling it. I'm reading this thread, I'm seeing a lot of delight in James getting voted out . . . and I can't remember what he did that was so bad. Once again, I'm not paying that much attention, and I'm more invested in The Challenge, where two ex-Survivor players (Michele and Jay) have been irritating others.

It would be nice if one of the female players won, especially since there's only going to be four women present on the last day (either going for the big prize or on the jury). That has to be a record. I also don't see a bias against female players, though -- once again -- I'm not paying close enough attention. I think this should be looked into by the producers, even if it's not on an urgent level. Women winning the last two seasons doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

[pausing to go online because I can't be bothered remembering names)

If there is a bias, Probst probably gets the most out of it . . . especially at the challenge, as James and Cody fought to hold their bars. Bodies trembling, muscles twitching . . . I know that I make a LOT of "Probst gets aroused by the strong guys" jokes, but that's where my mind went.

6 hours ago, bankerchick said:

I got a 3 day vacation for trying to defend the much hated girls on the family version of Amazing Race because even though they were annoying, they were also teenagers who had just lost their father.

You liked the Weavers?!? I think Linda was a Karen before Karens were a thing. I hope they're doing better.

Here is Erik reminding me that "smokescreen" was a thing in this episode:

[Skooma]

15 hours ago, Kitty Redstone said:

I remember her intense hate-on for Parvati (someone I didn't care for one way or the other) drove me away from reading the recaps.  It was that disturbing.

Yeah once Miss Alli decided she hated someone she didn't even know in real life on these shows she went ballistic on them over and over and over again and wouldn't stop ripping them each week.  Even if all they did was happen to sneeze in one episode it was the worst thing any human being ever did in all of history.  Really scary stuff.  Glad people here are far more civilized and don't blindly follow someone they perceive in power on a forum.  This forum is democratic and prevents stuff like this happening.

12 hours ago, blackwing said:

I like Cody as well, he is probably my favourite.  I like his attitude about life and I was happy to see that he won immunity.

Fully agree that certain moderators at TWoP ruled the roost.  Miss Alli on the Amazing Race site was particularly interesting... if you dared to not like the teams she liked or if you hated the ones she did like (usually the teams of young good-looking alpha males), watch out!  Three days off.

Yeah Cody is far from perfect but he is a free spirit trying to avoid the ruts in life and I really appreciate that.  As for TAR,  Miss Alli actually loved the original alpha male team of Rob & Brennen so not all male alphas.  But the team Miss Alli hated the very very VERY most ever was Charla & Mirna who I found both delightfully funny and quite entertaining.  I got banned not once but twice making positive comments about them. 

The last one (alt screen name) was over the off season where she "purged" every single person that disagreed with her that past year regards anything on the CBS big three shows (Survivor, TAR, BB) she was modding that season.  Some of us met online in other forums and it all came out then someone finally set up an anti-twop site to lay it on the line and the site was overwhelmed with posts about same.

9 hours ago, North of Eden said:

Oh, yes Miss Allie was the worst. She took a lot of the fun out of posting. I must have had three different Screen names because I kept getting banned for ridiculous stuff like on BIG BROTHER...I was encouraging viewers to VOTE ALLISON and VOTE OFTEN....that was enough to get banned for shouting and telling people what to do. This site is like everything that was good about TWOP and leaving out the bad stuff like over-moderation.

I got banned three times from there and the other time (first time actually) was for daring to like BB Season 2's Danielle Reyes who ended up one of the most popular BB players of all time despite Miss A's efforts to the contrary.  I forget why she loathed Danielle but once she did she hacked her to pieces every single episode.  These personal attacks at people on a TV reality show were very troubling and I have no idea why the people running that site let her go on and on forever there.

Sorry for this OT thread but I needed to vent and to say how very VERY lucky this site came along where sanity and courtesy prevails here.  And it shows how a proper forum should be run.  Thanks to the people running this site for letting us choose who to root for and who not to without fear of getting us warned and/or banned here.  A breath of fresh air.

[nlkm9]

On 11/17/2022 at 6:09 PM, Taeolas said:

TV Line has an interview with James posted.What is interesting is this question:

He doesn't say he reclaimed KiP after. I assume he did, but I wonder if that might be another reveal about to come up, and all the working around KiP wasn't actually needed. 

Im so confused— who is the one that has the idol that jeanine gave to dwight who he gave to someone ? Is that idol valid?

[DEL901]

1 minute ago, nlkm9 said:

Im so confused— who is the one that has the idol that jeanine gave to dwight who he gave to someone ? Is that idol valid?

It is Jesse, and according to a Probst interview , it does seem to be active. 

[nlkm9]

15 minutes ago, nlkm9 said:

Im so confused— who is the one that has the idol that jeanine gave to dwight who he gave to someone ? Is that idol valid?

That does not seem fair or right. Sadly, players come to this game  studying these advantages and its just ridiculous. But for that idol to have power when the owner gave it to someone else is unfair. Jeannine clearly didnt know because in her exit speech she said aomething about dwight leaving with her idol

[North of Eden]

3 hours ago, Skooma said:

Yeah once Miss Alli decided she hated someone she didn't even know in real life on these shows she went ballistic on them over and over and over again and wouldn't stop ripping them each week.  Even if all they did was happen to sneeze in one episode it was the worst thing any human being ever did in all of history.  Really scary stuff.  Glad people here are far more civilized and don't blindly follow someone they perceive in power on a forum.  This forum is democratic and prevents stuff like this happening.

I got banned three times from there and the other time (first time actually) was for daring to like BB Season 2's Danielle Reyes who ended up one of the most popular BB players of all time despite Miss A's efforts to the contrary.  I forget why she loathed Danielle but once she did she hacked her to pieces every single episode.  These personal attacks at people on a TV reality show were very troubling and I have no idea why the people running that site let her go on and on forever there.

Sorry for this OT thread but I needed to vent and to say how very VERY lucky this site came along where sanity and courtesy prevails here.  And it shows how a proper forum should be run.  Thanks to the people running this site for letting us choose who to root for and who not to without fear of getting us warned and/or banned here.  A breath of fresh air.

Word to everything you said (and I liked Charla and Myrna too!)

I always pictured Miss Allie as a bitter, basement dweller in her parents house taking her frustrations out on the world through her posistion at TWOP.

We are very lucky that it was reborn as this site to discuss SURVIVOR and so many other great shows. Honestly if Primetimer didn't exist I don't know any other "central clearing house" to Monday morning quarterback all the programing that is out there to enjoy. I can even find threads about obscure shows like ID's FEAR THY NEIGHBOR to chat about. Long live Primetimer

Edited November 19, 2022 by North of Eden

[peachmangosteen]

10 hours ago, jabRI said:

I don't feel like re-watching it, why did one group get pb&j?  did they finish the challenge first?

The team of the last person standing got PB&J.

[Scatterbrained]

So, the chess master was really just a pawn in this game, and the queen (Karla) can move in any direction.

According to previews, Ellie’s parting words “See what happens when you trust Gabler?” seems to come into play.  I guess we shall see.

Also, the steal a vote was used totally incorrectly.  She should have stolen James vote in order to ensure his exit.  She and Owen are lucky others helped them out.

Edited November 19, 2022 by Scatterbrained

[jsm1125]

1 hour ago, Scatterbrained said:

So, the chess master was really just a pawn in this game, and the queen (Karla) can move in any direction.

According to previews, Ellie’s parting words “See what happens when you trust Gabler?” seems to come into play.  I guess we shall see.

Also, the steal a vote was used totally incorrectly.  She should have stolen James vote in order to ensure his exit.  She and Owen are lucky others helped them out.

I think Noelle was afraid of the possibility of James having an idol, as I assume she has no idea where Coco’s idol is. And that if she were to steal his vote, he could play that theoretical idol on himself.

[fishcakes]

On 11/17/2022 at 10:51 PM, Skooma said:

And if Owen was out of the loop last week that was because EVERYBODY else kept him out of said loop and James was just the messenger at worst.  I mean why didn't someone else fill him in?  Something seems off with the whole "story" on tonight's episode because of that.

It probably seems off because Owen was lying. He wasn't out of the loop; they even showed the clip where Gabler told him that James was targeting Jeanine. Even though Owen said, at least twice (once to James at the water well and once at TC), that James told him to vote for Ryan and that he did vote for Ryan, that's not true. He voted for Jeanine. Ryan only got two votes last week, one from Jeanine and one from Cassidy.

I was neutral on Owen until this week, but all his self-righteous faux outrage, and his pissy little stalking away to the beach when James asked, "what's worse, me lying to you or you voting for me?" made me really dislike him. He's a, "when I play the game, it's strategy; when you play, it's backstabbing" player, and he's not even good at it. I didn't particularly like James either, but I would have rather he stayed over Owen.

Edited November 19, 2022 by fishcakes

[Paws]

17 hours ago, fishcakes said:

was neutral on Owen until this week, but all his self-righteous faux outrage, and his pissy little stalking away to the beach when James asked, "what's worse, me lying to you or you voting for me?" made me really dislike him. He's a, "when I play the game, it's strategy; when you play, it's backstabbing" player, and he's not even good at it. I didn't particularly like James either, but I would have rather he stayed over Owen.

I think that was all theater by Owen to keep James comfortable that Owen is a PITA and that there was a real problem between the two of them and fought in front of the tribe on purpose so that it’s more believable to James that the rest of tribe wants to vote out Owen

[peachmangosteen]

That all happened before Owen found out about the plan. Although, I guess the editing could have been misleading there.

[awaken]

On 11/19/2022 at 2:16 AM, Skooma said:

Sorry for this OT thread but I needed to vent and to say how very VERY lucky this site came along where sanity and courtesy prevails here.  And it shows how a proper forum should be run.  Thanks to the people running this site for letting us choose who to root for and who not to without fear of getting us warned and/or banned here.  A breath of fresh air.

Agreed!  I’m so glad we have this place to gather and chat about our favorite shows!  💗

[princelina]

On 11/19/2022 at 7:13 AM, nlkm9 said:

That does not seem fair or right. Sadly, players come to this game  studying these advantages and its just ridiculous. But for that idol to have power when the owner gave it to someone else is unfair. Jeannine clearly didnt know because in her exit speech she said aomething about dwight leaving with her idol

I disagree with this - at least it's something for them to think about if they want to give it to someone else to hold - it still has power and you willingly gave it up.  I agree with whoever said earlier that people would tend to give it back  for fear of backlash, but the possibility is something for them to think about it.  Making it only have power for the finder makes it no big deal for them to have someone else hold it, therefore making the idols even more boring.

[nlkm9]

10 hours ago, princelina said:

I disagree with this - at least it's something for them to think about if they want to give it to someone else to hold - it still has power and you willingly gave it up.  I agree with whoever said earlier that people would tend to give it back  for fear of backlash, but the possibility is something for them to think about it.  Making it only have power for the finder makes it no big deal for them to have someone else hold it, therefore making the idols even more boring.

she did not "give it up" they agreed he would hold it. so only the person it was given to should have its power. I hate idols, period and think the game was way more interesting without them personally. 

[blackwing]

2 hours ago, nlkm9 said:

she did not "give it up" they agreed he would hold it. so only the person it was given to should have its power. I hate idols, period and think the game was way more interesting without them personally. 

Yes, but that's not how the rule works.  Unless there was something specifically stated (like in a past season when Cirie tried to use an advantage she was holding for someone, but the advantage specified that it was non-transferable).  Whoever holds the idol/advantage can use it.  I think it makes sense.  You can of course specify with the other person that they have to give it back.  But they can agree and then not do so, like Rickard almost did with Shan a few seasons ago.  If you want to trust someone with holding your idol in an effort to hide it or protect it, then that's your right.  But there's really no recourse if the person you trusted decides to backstab you and keep it.

I do agree that there are too many idols and advantages, but as long as they are a part of the game, I think this rule that whoever holds it can use it makes sense.

The one thing I don't like is when viewers are kept in the dark.  Like how we didn't find out until an episode later that the idol that Jeanine had given to Dwight for safekeeping (and supposedly exited the game when Dwight was blindsided) had in turn been given by Dwight to Jesse for safekeeping, without the knowledge of Jeanine.  Viewers shouldn't have been kept in the dark purely for the dramatic effect of "OMG Dwight went home with it".  That's a disservice to viewers who are having a hard enough time keeping track of all these idols and advantages to begin with.

[jabRI]

5 hours ago, nlkm9 said:

I hate idols, period and think the game was way more interesting without them personally. 

It was OK when there was one in play at a time, an no stupid advantages.  You know it's bad when they have to list them at the beginning of the episode.  I think I'm done for a while, I was curious and watched some earlier seasons on Prime.  When they didn't have all this nonsense, you could see true alliences, strategies, trying to outwit/outplay.  Now it just comes down to what's in your hands.

[nlkm9]

17 hours ago, jabRI said:

It was OK when there was one in play at a time, an no stupid advantages.  You know it's bad when they have to list them at the beginning of the episode.  I think I'm done for a while, I was curious and watched some earlier seasons on Prime.  When they didn't have all this nonsense, you could see true alliences, strategies, trying to outwit/outplay.  Now it just comes down to what's in your hands.

Yep and too many times an idol is placed in someones path and you just know its because the powers that be want that person to win.