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Fandom and Viewer Issues: "Fan" Is Short for "Fanatic"

Emma

By Emma
in Once Upon A Time

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emmybenz
emmybenz

So, I'm a bit of an oddball here: I'm a Regina fan. I ship OQ & CS -- OQ a bit more. But this conversation caught my attention and I had to reply. I saw Lana at Regal Con this year, and I saw Lana

angelwoody
angelwoody

I see no reason why anyone (celebrity or not) is obligated to turn a rude tweet into a "teaching moment."  I think that social media can make people forget their manners.  I highly doubt that whoever

october
october

Their 'logic' changes depending on the circumstances so Hook always 'loses'. Outside of dumping Emma and pushing her into Regina's arms I don't think there's anything he could do to earn their approva

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DigitalCount

DigitalCount

"Fixing?"  You mean, they think she should be spayed like a dog or a cat?

Well, she needs to be a strong female character...

 

Reading the swan queen tag in tumblr is amazing. It's so clear that Emma is a cipher to these people and this is really just about propping Regina. Not to go all my fandom > your fandom, but somehow I don't think that's how it should work. Don't they want Emma to be happy too? Doesn't that matter to them? What are they watching for?

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oliverwendell

oliverwendell

 

the season 4 episode of namelessness

 

I keep seeing references on these boards to a mysterious season 4 "Episode that Shall Not be Named". Can somebody name it, just once, for this relative newbie who has no idea what you're talking about? :)

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legaleagle53

legaleagle53

I keep seeing references on these boards to a mysterious season 4 "Episode that Shall Not be Named". Can somebody name it, just once, for this relative newbie who has no idea what you're talking about? :)

 

Episode 4x05, titled "Breaking Glass."  Once you see it, you'll understand why pretty much everyone hates it and tries to pretend it never aired.

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maryle

maryle

OK I was curious to see what the dark side claim was so I channel my Mérida interior and look at some forum and blogue with more focus on Rumbelle.

And aside the all Emma is weak.

It seem that the real problem for them is the importance of Hook in the sl.

Many of them overly said that They wish Hook as no sl at all.

See, Personnallly I find OQ as intetesting as watching pain dry, Rumbelle lost all credibility with their 1001 énième break out réconciliation scene but I know They Will have sl. at worse I Will Skype the most annoying part. Not,scream that Robin or Belle should not have sreen time or sl.

That attitude from their fans make me like les Regina and Rumple because I felt the thruth is They can accept Emma having a lots of sreen time only if she is a prop to their personnally fav not her point of view.

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Mathius

Mathius

(edited)

Because lots of different ship factions hate Hook--Swan Queen, Swan Fire, Rumbelle. Their power is united in Hook hate, but divided in ship fate. I'll leave now. :-p

They also all have the perceived issue that Hook and CS is consuming too much time on the show at expense of other characters/relationships. Aside from that not technically being true until now in 5A (though they've had this complaint since Season 3), I think the real issue they are reacting to is that Hook and CS just happen to get some of the most DECENT writing on the show, and so they become a scapegoat. While it sucks that other characters/relationships aren't getting the same quality, I think a more productive thing to do would be to just ask/demand for more quality writing for those characters/relationships rather than for less of Hook and CS. What's currently being done with Hook and CS shouldn't have to change for the likes of Snowing, Rumbelle, OQ, Emma with her parents, Henry with Emma, etc. to become better written and have more prominence. Good writing should have room enough for all.

Edited by Mathius
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Camera One

Camera One

It's interesting how this show loves to present Regina as a victim, and in turn, each of those obsessed internet fandoms think of their own favorite character or ship as having suffered the most and the most mistreated by the other characters, as the one least attended to by A&E (even if their favorite character or ship eats up screentime like the Cookie monster at the dessert buffet), and they often also think their ship as the most victimized by other fandoms.  

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Faemonic

Faemonic

If Captain Swan's one of the highest reblogged ships on Tumblr why do I always hear about how Hook isn't popular?

Tumbloggers were all only reblogging for the Emma half? Hey, I would've given Swan Queen a leg up in that census if only out of fandom solidarity, because they were the only other Oncer ship also in the top 25 or something, but my browser's outdated and my connection was iffy at that time.

 

Serious answer: First, I'm thinking that vitriol is still attention, so we can't fault him for being unpopular as in unknown. But he's definitely a polarizing character. I love him like crispy bacon, and that includes when he's being a blockhead or being a butt or the CGI team messed up and made his heart completely red when I know it shouldn't be. A whole lot of other viewers just loathe each and every detail about him, every syllable he utters, for every moment that he takes up onscreen...and that bleeds over to every discussion with capslocks of seething hatred. Which they are entitled to, actually. (And there might be a minority of casual viewers who see Hook and are like, "Wait why is King Arthur so skinny all of a sudden?")

 

I'm sure there are as many reasons for hating on Hook as there are people with reasons to enjoy him as a character. I have a feminist explanation for this, a Jungian psychology explanation for this (that positions Killian Jones as the embodiment of the Jungian Shadow of the collective subconscious), a character favoritism explanation for it not far off Rumsy4's "Shipper Wars alliance" theory above, and the vitriol-still-counts-as-publicity theory that I mentioned first. Actual Hook haters would have so many other theories.

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Eolivet

Eolivet

I think it's too bad the fandom appears so toxic, because I do think there are legitimate issues with the preceding arc that should be non-ship-specific. For instance, I think one can like Hook as a character, but still feel that Emma's family should have played a larger role in her story this fall. But too often, the fandom sees those things as mutually exclusive. I sort of feel that's what the writer trying to address -- to sift through the noise to respond to legitimate criticism. For example, I believe sending Emma's parents off for adventures with Arthur while Emma is struggling with the darkness makes Emma's parents look terrible, regardless of what ship you support.

 

So, I sort of applaud the writer for doing this -- he must know that underneath all the bile and tears, there are legitimate writing or character integration issues. At least I feel like that may be the root of the whole "Emma deserves better" thing. I think she absolutely does -- her love interest cannot be the only person who appears to care about her. She deserves more involved and supportive parents and family. But since Emma isn't a real person, that's the writers' fault.

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kili

kili

I think it's too bad the fandom appears so toxic, because I do think there are legitimate issues with the preceding arc that should be non-ship-specific. For instance, I think one can like Hook as a character, but still feel that Emma's family should have played a larger role in her story this fall. But too often, the fandom sees those things as mutually exclusive.

I think when fans do that, they are using good excuses to mask their unreasonable real reason. Many people would agree that more story for Emma's family would be great, but they might not all agree that Hook needs less of a story. So, they go with the "save-the-children"/"apple pie" argument instead of just saying they want Hook off the show. 

 

I just read an interesting article about a show that was cancelled in DisneyWorld because around 2000 fans of the show that preceded it  It started out with them laying wreaths at the start of the new show, then they proceeded to disrupt the shows with boos and heckling while deluging official DW mailboxes with demands they get tossed. Every article about them featured comments from the fans of the previous band demanding their return. "Whenever the Canadian Lumberjacks were so much as mentioned in an online post, it was barraged by abuse." 

 

The new show is now cancelled and the FB site dedicated to their demise is celebrating. 

 

It's interesting that temper tantrums by a minority of customers are starting to hold sway and I'm sure their techniques are shared.

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FierceAfroChick

FierceAfroChick

I think it's too bad the fandom appears so toxic, because I do think there are legitimate issues with the preceding arc that should be non-ship-specific. For instance, I think one can like Hook as a character, but still feel that Emma's family should have played a larger role in her story this fall. But too often, the fandom sees those things as mutually exclusive. I sort of feel that's what the writer trying to address -- to sift through the noise to respond to legitimate criticism. For example, I believe sending Emma's parents off for adventures with Arthur while Emma is struggling with the darkness makes Emma's parents look terrible, regardless of what ship you support.

 

 

It’s perfectly plausible for the man Emma is in a relationship with to be involved in her storyline.  And the problem of her parents being less involved could have been easily solved by deleting Regina from the equation.  Now I do despise Regina but I'm trying to be un-biased here.  Emotionally speaking, it doesn’t make sense for her to have gotten those emotional beats/moments with Emma instead of her parents.  Have Emma’s parents hold the dagger and write in some trust/control issues with that action.  Have David and Hook searching Emma’s house for clues, have Snow stumble on the dreamcatchers or at least throw in a few scenes of her trying hard to connect with Emma and Emma shooting her down.

 

Where they fuck things up is inserting characters into stories they don't belong in (like Regina in Hook’s back story, trying to reason with Hook).  Then again, if the Charmings had been more involved with Emma, I think a certain fandom would still find a reason to scream for less Hook.

 

BTW, I love how JMo is still ignoring the bullies by refusing to post pics of her and LP for her 101 smiles thing.  Now she may post one later, but I like how as of now, she’s not caving and some of the louder bullies seem to have STFU.  I saw a post floating around tumblr where they were blaming her for SQ not happening and whining about how she ignores half her fan base. But I really don’t think that’s her fanbase…it’s Lana’s fanbase making demands of Jen.

 

I have no problem with certain fandom factions wanting what they want…I just hate the way they go about trying to get it.

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Mathius

Mathius

(edited)

This is all exactly what I said: we truly do need more of Emma and her family, and overfocus on CS at the expense of it is a legit problem, it's just that the solution to it isn't "end Hook and CS" like the haters claim, the solution is just simply "more of Emma and her family too, please."

Emotionally speaking, it doesn’t make sense for her to have gotten those emotional beats/moments with Emma instead of her parents.

It makes even less sense for her parents to have so many emotional beats/moments with REGINA instead of their daughter. Like everything in 5x02, for example.

Edited by Mathius
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mjgchick

mjgchick

Yeah I don't mind Emma having emotional moments with Regina. What I have a problem with is Regina having more emotional moments with Emma's parents. I just don't get why we needed that dance lesson scene. So I can't even hate on the diehard Snowing fans for being upset. Hell I'm upset that the show made it seem like Emma's parents would be huge in saving her but only made things worse for her. I'm ok at the end that Emma saved herself and her family but Snowing fans honestly has a right to be angrier than most fans. Like Mathius said, instead of asking for less Hook, Regina or who ever else how about ask for more Snowing with Emma and less of the guest stars. The Guest stars shouldn't dominate the season like it did in S4.

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Hookian

Hookian

If Captain Swan's one of the highest reblogged ships on Tumblr why do I always hear about how Hook isn't popular?

Because they're bitter that no matter what they do CS is the most popular couple of the show, even though they like to say they're the biggest. Yeah well #5 CS over #14 SQ. Well they are stupid and lack logic and common sense so maybe in their minds they think that they're the biggest. Only in their minds.

 

The absolute funniest is when these morons try to say the GA doesn't like Hook. When actually every media outlet praises Colin and the CS storyline. What they didn't like was the Rumple twist.

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stealinghome

stealinghome

(edited)

Because they're bitter that no matter what they do CS is the most popular couple of the show, even though they like to say they're the biggest. Yeah well #5 CS over #14 SQ. Well they are stupid and lack logic and common sense so maybe in their minds they think that they're the biggest. Only in their minds.

The absolute funniest is when these morons try to say the GA doesn't like Hook. When actually every media outlet praises Colin and the CS storyline. What they didn't like was the Rumple twist.

A lot of media outlets praise Regina quite often too. And the show as a whole, even when I've thought it's pretty bad. Media outlets have to cultivate positive relationships with shows to get access. They're always cheerleaders.

Honestly, the fact of the matter is that there's really no way to know what the general audience likes. Tumblr is a small subset of the nuttiest of online fans, who are already a very specific and nutty (myself included!) subset of the GA. This board likes to say that a lot of fans left in S2 because of Regina because this board likes Hook and hates Regina, but Hook haters say that Hook's introduction in S2 is what made the ratings fall. We just have zero way of knowing what "the general audience" thinks.

Edited by stealinghome
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Camera One

Camera One

It makes even less sense for her parents to have so many emotional beats/moments with REGINA instead of their daughter. Like everything in 5x02, for example.

 

 

Yeah I don't mind Emma having emotional moments with Regina. What I have a problem with is Regina having more emotional moments with Emma's parents. I just don't get why we needed that dance lesson scene. 

 

Simple reason.  Adam and Eddy have both said they like seeing Regina with Snow/Charming, so they write these scenes in.  Their show, their preference rules.

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shipperx

shipperx

It's ironic that the supposedly feminist idea of a "strong female character" is one with none of the traditionally feminine characteristics -- no romance, no emotions, no interest in love or family.

I don't think that's feminist. I think that's Hollywood, controlled predominantly by men, over simplified expression of their (clueless) concept of what might sell.

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Mathius

Mathius

(edited)
We just have zero way of knowing what "the general audience" thinks.

 

No way of knowing, sure, but we can make an educated guess based around studying the actual ratings and trends in those ratings, particularly the steepest drops. And the fact that the biggest mass-audience walk-outs happened early into 2B and 4B, both the starts of big Regina arcs, does lend support to the notion that Regina and her arcs are less popular with the GA than her fanbase would like to believe. Regina herself may not be so much hated by the GA as her material is.

 

 

but Hook haters say that Hook's introduction in S2 is what made the ratings fall

 

That's ridiculous because, again, looking at the actual ratings disprove that.  The ratings in 2A remained incredibly high, and the key demographic shares actually rose after Hook's introduction.  The only time a serious ratings drop after something Hook-related happened was following 2x11 when he shot Belle, which I suspect was the last straw for many Rumbelle-shipping viewers given how Rumple was going on about how Belle's amnesia can't be undone now.

Edited by Mathius
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Stuffy

Stuffy

(edited)

Same old creepy fandom stuff. This time there's a racist Jmo/CS "fan" (ie troll) and people are too gullible to realize they're being trolled by an Internet scumbag. Instead of reporting and moving on they're eating up the drama.

Edited by Stuffy
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Faemonic

Faemonic

This time there's a racist Jmo/CS "fan" (ie troll) and people are too gullible to realize they're being trolled by an Internet scumbag. Instead of reporting and moving on they're eating up the drama.

I groan but I'm also morbidly curious. Got links/screencaps?

 

You'd think they'd learn from that time CS shippers "hacked" SQers. I'm disappointed jn them that they're using the same method so soon again!

How did that end? (Honest question. I haven't kept up with that.)

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HoodlumSheep

HoodlumSheep

(edited)

I groan but I'm also morbidly curious. Got links/screencaps?

How did that end? (Honest question. I haven't kept up with that.)

If I recall correctly, it was an SQ troll in disguise.

And yep, every time there's a bad apple, instead of just blocking the sucker, the fandom always has to drag it to get Adam's attention with the whole, "see, Adam? See how horrible this particular fandom is?" In hopes that he'll suddenly start writing his story to pander to them instead.

It's ridiculous. Even if it is a"CSer," as part of the CS fandom I'm not gonna get guilt-tripped over some BA's behavior. That's what I couldn't stand about that last hacker-scandal. I had to spend so much time scrolling through CS tumblr posts about CSers apologizing, not condoning these actions, and getting crazy guilt-tripped by something that's pretty much out of their control (and wasn't even their fault).

Whatever.

Edited by HoodlumSheep
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Rumsy4

Rumsy4

(edited)

That person had pretended to have been victimized by a CSer. To their credit, it was some non-crazy SQers who discovered that it was a SQ troll. They traced the IP address of the two blogs (one real one fake) and they matched or something.

Some people just like to stir sh*t up in fandoms. But I don't think it can ever get more epic/nasty than the MS Scribe saga of the HP days.

Edited by Rumsy4
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mjgchick

mjgchick

I think CSers or whoever shouldn't get guilt trip into something they didn't do. Its why I can't stand those receipts blogs. What does that do in the end? When someone's being an asshole I report them then block them simple as that. The CSers all apologizing last time just made the tag boring. Stop apologizing for things you didn't do. All fandoms have bad apples. Call them out and move on.

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sharky

sharky

(edited)

For me, I did feel bad about the whole deleted tumblr incident -- there are bad apples, sure, but fans shouldn't be doing things like that to other fans.

 

Of course, that all turned out to be one big sock puppet and after you cry wolf enough times, no one is going to believe you anymore, whether true or not. I felt bad about it once, but I won't get fooled twice. Just because the actors don't know about all the craziness in the fandom doesn't mean the fandom itself forgets.

Edited by sharky
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Stuffy

Stuffy

(edited)

So Jennifer posted a picture of Colin and the Liam actor. She was then was called problematic and homophobic or "no homo" because it was another nonLana picture. My question is when was the last time Lana posted a selfie with Jmo?

Edited by Stuffy
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DigitalCount

DigitalCount

I remember when I posted something critical of SQ on tumblr and got an immediate response, though in fairness to them I tagged it wrong. They also thought I was a CS shipper, which was lulz at the time but now I think I do ship them. As long as Emma's got a happy ending I'm happy, but I guess that's not the case for everyone.

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daxx

daxx

The only hate mail I got on tumblr was when I vented about something SQ I didn't tag it at all. Just vented on my blog. They still sent me hate mail and hijacked my post mocking my opinion until I deleted the post and blocked them all.

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