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Fandom and Viewer Issues: "Fan" Is Short for "Fanatic"

Emma

By Emma
in Once Upon A Time

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mjgchick

mjgchick

Did that Scott guy seriously called a fan sad for being offended by the fact that a character was probably raped tonight? This is the one time I need the whole fandom to get on the producers ass if they wont control this guys chill.

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emmybenz
emmybenz

So, I'm a bit of an oddball here: I'm a Regina fan. I ship OQ & CS -- OQ a bit more. But this conversation caught my attention and I had to reply. I saw Lana at Regal Con this year, and I saw Lana

angelwoody
angelwoody

I see no reason why anyone (celebrity or not) is obligated to turn a rude tweet into a "teaching moment."  I think that social media can make people forget their manners.  I highly doubt that whoever

october
october

Their 'logic' changes depending on the circumstances so Hook always 'loses'. Outside of dumping Emma and pushing her into Regina's arms I don't think there's anything he could do to earn their approva

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Souris

Souris

Yes, I just ventured into Scott's den of assholery because someone mentioned to me he was being a colossal jerk, and like a train wreck, I couldn't resist a peek. I lasted only a couple of minutes before I had to click away lest I have an aneurysm, but it was long enough to be disgusted, offended and flabbergasted. OMG, how is someone representing the show allowed to say some of the things he's saying to fans? He basically told that fan that it was the fan's problem and it's just a fantasy show, so get over it. Scott was BELLIGERENT with the guy. I mean, WHAT?? Wow, do the writers simply not get it AT ALL! 

 

Sadly, he also confirmed that he's back with the show next season.

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Geeni

Geeni

Did that Scott guy seriously called a fan sad for being offended by the fact that a character was probably raped tonight? This is the one time I need the whole fandom to get on the producers ass if they wont control this guys chill.

 

What?! What did he say, exactly?

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Minneapple

Minneapple

Scott Nimerfro @ScottNimerfro  ·  2h 2 hours ago

Sad. You're the one who's applying real world perimeters to a fantasy situation that even my 11 year old daughter can distinguish between.

Argh! Also, "perimeters?"

 

There's a whole thread with back-and-forth between Nimerfro and a bunch of fans. People are frustrated with this storyline.

 

I hate the "uh, well, it doesnt' count because it's magic" excuse. Well, then, what's the difference between villain and protagonist? I suppose the Snow Queen didn't do anything wrong because it was all magical, right?

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Geeni

Geeni

Jesus. And this just hurts more and more because Scott was involved with one of my favorite shows ever, the gone-too-soon Pushing Daisies. Asshole, that show was too good for you.

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KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

(edited)

 

Scott was BELLIGERENT with the guy. I mean, WHAT?? Wow, do the writers simply not get it AT ALL!

I looked too... I'm burning up. So unprofessional and extremely rude. I am contemplating reporting him somehow. I want to know how you can argue with fans, insult them, and continually make snide remarks in a PR situation, yet not get fired. He is representing a family show, which sickens me. Not only that - but freaking Disney. I don't care what you believe or what you write or even how rude other people can be, you do not treat anyone like that. He's a disgrace to his company and to the Once Upon a Time staff.

 

I suddenly have more respect for Adam. At least he doesn't openly insult his viewers.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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Souris

Souris

Is it any wonder why the show has devolved the way it has if this is the type of thinking that prevails in the writers room? Nimerfro has only contributed to what was already there before.

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pezgirl7

pezgirl7

The ABC media site has direct contact info for people you could try emailing, like the social media/public relations person. Perhaps if they get enough emails, they can at least tell the people to stop posting on twitter. I doubt it would have any affect on the show, but it might bring awareness to the show runners about problematic plot lines and the correct way to deal with upset fans.

http://www.disneyabcpress.com/abc/contacts/

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CatMack

CatMack

I honestly don't know which fan reaction I currently find more horrifying - the ones who don't think rape by fraud is a real thing, or the ones who say rape is bad in real life but this is fiction and you can't get upset about things in fiction and we don't even have magic in our world so clearly this situation can't be judged by real world standards.  I'm getting a lot of both, and it's honestly killing what little faith in humanity I had left. 

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Curio

Curio

(edited)

I always assumed the writers knew exactly what they were doing, but just don't give two flips about how sketchy their plots end up being. But now I know they're flat out clueless about why their plots are problematic. Some more "gems" from Scott's feed:

 

@ScottNimerfro This is the third rape storyline this show has done, two without dealing with the ramifications. People don't trust you.

were the other two before my arrival on the show?

So, basically saying he has no idea about any of the Graham implications from Season 1.

 

I see your point. What other TV situations have this effect? I'm curious how they handle it and not seem insensitive?

I don't even know what he's trying to argue here.

 

I see that now. Just curious, do you feel the same way about murder? Or is that different?

but what are the ramifications for murder for someone like Regina?

Um, we've been waiting for some actual ramifications for Regina's murders. How is it our fault she doesn't have to endure long lasting ramifications when you write her that way?

 

And my favorite...

tell me what you would prefer to see. What conflict best drives story? If not crimes of the street and of the heart?

What we'd prefer to see? Scott, I think it's pretty simple...how about story lines not involving rape? Edited by Curio
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myril

myril

(edited)

What we'd prefer to see? Scott, I think it's pretty simple...how about story lines not involving rape?

 

I don't mind to see story lines involving rape, but as long as they are named as such and as crime.

 

Can't tell yet, where they are going with it this time, if Zelena will be called out for it and will have to pay for it, so think some fans are a little overreacting here. It's okay to express, that one is shocked about the development and sees it as rape, but maybe it's a bit too early to tell, that the writers are as much in denial this time as they've been so far about what Regina did to Graham. Get that people have lost trust, and I don't expect much either, but sometimes it's a good advice to sleep a night before shouting out anything to the world.

 

Should mention, that Scott tweeted this: 

 

 

(...) rape is rape. And there needs to be repercussions. Keep watching.

https://twitter.com/ScottNimerfro/status/592550180194488320

 

But I nevertheless agree, that Scott Nimerfro talks himself into trouble, contradicted himself. First to tell, it's fantasy, chill, a kid could tell the difference, but then pretty much implying, that there might come some repercussions for Zelena. Sounds very defensive to me. Yep, it sucks when people don't love your great writing as much as you do.

 

As well I am intrigued, what mental gymnastics fans are at times capable of. 

Edited by myril
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sharky

sharky

I'm hoping the thing about repercussions shows that maybe the episodes will address it, but have someone else address it. I think Andrew Chambliss, who cowrote this episode, live tweeted it so I may check that one.

I'm also disturbed by the news that Scott is coming back. Seriously, who thought that was a good idea? I may actually be motivated to send a note to ABC brass after this.

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Serena

Serena

(edited)

I hate the "uh, well, it doesnt' count because it's magic" excuse. Well, then, what's the difference between villain and protagonist? I suppose the Snow Queen didn't do anything wrong because it was all magical, right?

Oh, God. That's EXACTLY what that SQ fan was claiming in a conversation with me a few weeks ago (check a few pages back). Regina's and Rumple's crimes don't count because it's magic, Hook's do because IDK.

 

I do believe Zelena will not "get away with it" like Regina did, but I'm also sure no one will call it rape or even "violation" and treat Robin as a victim. It will be all about his "honor" and Regina's angst.

Edited by Serena
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Mari

Mari

Well, this episode seems to be going over about as expected. I read another site's recap, and even in the middle of the Swan Queen squeeing (seriously, they were about two inches away from smashing their brunette and blonde Barbies together and making kissing noises) they managed to take a short break and point out the ick involved in Zelarian and Robin's relationship.

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Rumsy4

Rumsy4

You won't believe the number of threads on the imdb boards arguing that the Zelena/Robin situation is not rape. That board also has many people who claim Regina did not rape Graham. So... 

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Minneapple

Minneapple

I don't mind to see story lines involving rape, but as long as they are named as such and as crime.

I agree with this. Sort of. It's not that I "mind" seeing storylines involving rape. I mean, if you feel you have to use it in a story, fine. But be prepared to write a proper fallout and reaction for it (which TV writers rarely ever do, Elementary being a rare exception this year). Consider the implications of what you're writing. Rape is way overused as a plot on TV. It happens on Game of Thrones, like, every week (and now everyone is terrified for Sansa because she's about to get married to the rapiest of all the rapists on that show).

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KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

(edited)

 

I agree with this. Sort of. It's not that I "mind" seeing storylines involving rape. I mean, if you feel you have to use it in a story, fine.

I don't have a problem with using it as a story element. People think murder is totally okay, but this isn't. Nobody cares if Regina torches a village full of people or abuses her child. My only issue is that on this show, there will be no fallout whatsoever. What's sadder is the reason - the writers just don't care. They prove they don't with Graham. I'm convinced this was inserted for shock value and that there will be no real character reactions to it whatsoever. It's about Outlaw Queen angst, plain and simple.

 

Robin didn't react to his wife being murdered... twice. Robin thought adultery was righteous. Is he going to get his feathers ruffled over this? Doubt it. Welcome to Once Upon a Time, where everything means nothing.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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Writing Wrongs

Writing Wrongs

This tweet made me kinda laugh:

 

Scott Nimerfro ‏@ScottNimerfro  · 24h24 hours ago 
@Ah_SookieSookie how many "married couples" wear condoms?  And by married couple I mean fictional thief and shape-shifting witch. Name one.

 

 

But yeah, he comes off sounding like a dick.
   

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kili

kili

@Ah_SookieSookie how many "married couples" wear condoms?  And by married couple I mean fictional thief and shape-shifting witch. Name one.

 

I don't know....how about the responsible ones who don't want to bring any more children into the world until they fully repair their relationship and come to terms with living in a very new world - and maybe until one of them got a job that doesn't come with the risk of a jail term?

 

Scott would show better knowledge of his characters if he said they did use condoms, but Zelena being Zelena and wanting to get pregnant, totally rendered them useless. I imagine her Bwahahahaha-ing as she did it.

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Curio

Curio

(edited)

Scott would show better knowledge of his characters if he said they did use condoms, but Zelena being Zelena and wanting to get pregnant, totally rendered them useless. I imagine her Bwahahahaha-ing as she did it.

 

Oh god, now I have the image of Zarian poking holes in all of Robin's condoms or totally putting on an act and saying, "Oh my gosh, I love this modern world! They have this miraculous thing called 'the pill.' You don't have to wear that pesky thing anymore!"

 

Why does this show make me have these kinds of thoughts? WHY?!

Edited by Curio
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stealinghome

stealinghome

He keeps giving me second hand embarrassment

For real--it's actually amazing me how thin a skin this dude has. I mean, I thought Adam has a thin skin, but this guy makes Adam look like Emma Frost in diamond form. How is it possible that a mature, adult, professional writer can be so sensitive...and unprofessional? Yeesh.

 

Wish the writers would spend 10% of the time that they spend being petty on twitter actually writing the show...I bet it would be at least 10% better.

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Minneapple

Minneapple

Like the "BUT IT'S MAGIC" excuse, I really really REALLY hate the "BUT IT'S FICTION" excuse. Yeah, it's fiction, but we need to relate to it somehow, or there's no point. Otherwise characters could just go around killing and raping and it wouldn't mean anything. OH WAIT.

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Shanna Marie

Shanna Marie

The "It's fiction!" argument should only apply when people are inappropriately taking things from the show into the real world. So if fans start harassing Rebecca Mader and calling her a rapist, then it's appropriate to say, "It's fiction!"

 

But a writer should never, ever say "It's fiction!" or "It's magic, so it doesn't count" or anything like that in response to criticisms of the work. Within the world of the story, it's not fiction and magic is real, otherwise it doesn't work. Things within the story world have to make sense according to the rules of that world. If you're not supposed to care because it's fiction, then there's no reason to watch. And if it doesn't count if magic is involved, then why should we be watching a fantasy show?

 

There again, if you're complaining about someone disappearing in a puff of smoke in a fantasy show, then it's okay to say, "Duh, it's fantasy." But if you're complaining about the morals and ethics presented in a show, saying that it's magic or fantasy doesn't make sense because the magic is real in that world, and if it doesn't count, then why should we watch? That would mean that nothing matters.

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Zuleikha

Zuleikha

Scott Nimerfro ‏@ScottNimerfro  · 24h24 hours ago

@Ah_SookieSookie how many "married couples" wear condoms?  And by married couple I mean fictional thief and shape-shifting witch. Name one.

I just can't. Is he freaking seriously trying to say that he thinks it's odd for married couples to use condoms as birth control when they don't have access to other means? 
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KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

(edited)

 

There again, if you're complaining about someone disappearing in a puff of smoke in a fantasy show, then it's okay to say, "Duh, it's fantasy." But if you're complaining about the morals and ethics presented in a show, saying that it's magic or fantasy doesn't make sense because the magic is real in that world, and if it doesn't count, then why should we watch? That would mean that nothing matters.

As a writer, you want your stories to feel deceptively real. This is how you engage the reader and immerse them into your world. When there are rules, morals, and way of conduct, you build your realm of fantasy. From that it becomes more than just words - it becomes its own universe with its own laws. To say it's "just fantasy" is almost like jabbing at your own work. It's effectively telling people they shouldn't care if an action has any ramifications because it's not real. After all the work writers put into creating the illusion of a reality, this man shot an arrow in the opposite direction. 

 

Zelena's pregnancy was put into the context of the real world. It didn't occur in some foreign society where rape doesn't matter. If we're supposed to understand there were consequences for Emma's neglected childhood, or Regina's True Love being murdered, or Snow and Charming betraying their own daughter, why should we not expect the same treatment here? Is it "just fantasy" when the writers don't want to deal with it?

 

Without structure, you totally lose the audience. Hence why 4B has been so poorly received. But that's another topic...

Edited by KingOfHearts
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Kaoteek

Kaoteek

(edited)

There's no uniformity in Once fandom other than what I'm sure the writers already know: we're all happier when they can focus on the core cast of the show.

 

Actually, even that is not so clear-cut. From where I stand (not in any part of the OUAT fandom per se, but rather part of a more casual tv fandom that happens to watch OUAT amongst other things), some would rather have the show stop focusing everything on the Charmings, and have them in the background while other characters take the center stage. For instance, I didn't start watching OUAT for Snow White, Charming and Emma, but rather because the show felt fresh on a weekly basis by introducing new characters, and new takes on fairy tales & Disney characters. Sure, the Charmings were always a recurring part of the eps (not always the most captivating part, to boot), but stories were often more self-contained, with their own flashbacks, and so on.

 

Now we're four seasons in, and everything is still about the Charmings, every new character is related to the Charming whether by blood of flashbacks, it's all about characters who've completed their original story-arcs eons ago, and should now be supporting characters instead of hogging the spotlight. In fact, I'd argue OUAT went full Heroes about it, and made their Sylar & Petrellis (Regina & Charming) the center of their universe, thus making it constantly smaller instead of expanding on it. And just like Heroes, it bit them in the arse.

Edited by Kaoteek
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sharky

sharky

I just can't. Is he freaking seriously trying to say that he thinks it's odd for married couples to use condoms as birth control when they don't have access to other means? 

Or that it's even weird for married couples to use condoms at all? He's so thick skulled that if it's not his way, it's not the right way on so many personal and professional levels. But at least I'm sure his wife is probably very happy that he's now aired their preferred birth control method to EVERYONE ON TWITTER. Idiot.

 

We seriously need to sit down with this guy and talk to him about how social media works, how birth control works, how magic works, how to interact with fans, how to tie his shoes, and how to know when it's time to shut the hell up.

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orza

orza

I don't think what Scott is saying is weird. Robin and Zelana may be living in the modern world but they are not from it. They have lived in a technologically and scientifically primitive feudal society for all of their lives except for a few weeks in Storybrook. They also don't have the benefit of the knowledge download from Regina's curse. It makes no sense to assume that just because they have been in New York a few weeks that they have the same knowledge and awareness of modern birth control as natives of our world would have.

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sharky

sharky

Yea, I'm sure there's some magic birth control in fairy tale world. But I think the problem I had was Scott just coming off so flippant like "Of course they're married and having sex and not using protection and now she's pregnant because that always happens when in the real world too!" Like what are you going with here? The "It's the real world" or "It's magic" or "It's time for you to stop asking questions, you stupid fans."

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orza

orza

But that is not what Scott actually said. It is also not canon that the common folk had unhindered access to magic of any kind, let alone magic birth control in fairytale land.

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Mari

Mari

But that is not what Scott actually said. It is also not canon that the common folk had unhindered access to magic of any kind, let alone magic birth control in fairytale land.

Responding in the social issues thread.

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Serena

Serena

So Colin made the finals of yet another E! Online poll, and I for one am looking forward to the inevitable emotional breakdowns. I did notice that Adam is feeling more free about tweeting about this one, in comparison to the couples one (that was like pulling teeth getting him to tweet about it). 

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HoodlumSheep

HoodlumSheep

Yeah, his tweeting is like a double-edged sword. On one hand it's nice that he's showing support, but then there's a large part of me that goes, "Nooo!" When he does tweet about, because now all the Bad Apple's who didn't know about it before are going to double down on making sure Colin doesn't win. Which is just plain sad.

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