Fandom and Viewer Issues: "Fan" Is Short for "Fanatic"

[Serena]

I don't think it has much to do with homosexuality being widely accepted. Slash shipping by women is basically the same thing as guys getting hot over two girls kissing. It fetishizes homosexuality. And the worst part is when people who don't ship those slash couples are accused of homophobia -- which I've seen in both Sherlock and Teen Wolf fandoms.

Not to mention, most slash shipping is very misogynistic.

[sharky]

Real-person shipping makes me SO uncomfortable. Real-people shipping when one or both of the people are not even of the sexual persuasion to make it feasible, or if one or both of the people are married/in a relationship majorly skeevs me out.

Yes, this bugs me, especially with this fandom. Listen, Colin O'Donoghue is attractive, sure, but going on and on about how hot he is or how he looks so cute filming with JMo is just awkward. The dude goes home every night to his wife and son. Back off it a bit. Or all the photos saying, "Look how cute Josh and Ginny are!" Again, sure, but I don't know if I would want a picture of me and my husband on tumblr with a bunch of random people going on about how cute we are.

[shipperx]

Does anyone remember eGroups, which became YahooGroups? YG is pretty much dead now, but it was a great place for discussions. I also wish LiveJournal was as active as it once was. You know you've been around online fandoms for a long time when you're constanly moving from community to community looking for some good conversation.

Not only am I fandom dinosaur enough to remember when yahoogroups was huge or that I still have an active LJ, I remember the days of Usenet!

Jane Espenson is currently getting a ton of really ugly hate on her Twitter from SQ fans railing about "Adultery Queen." She's being remarkably calm and reasonable about it.

She would be. She's not new to the fans can be vile Rodeo. The Whedonverse fandoms have been steeped, pickled, and petrified in that stuff. Hell, grudge matches are still being waged.

She's an old hand at this. No way can she be surprised.

Edited December 4, 2014 by shipperx

[daxx]

I know! I despise real people shipping. As much as I admire Colin from afar I am ecstatic that he can go home to his wife. Means he will be happy working in Van for 3/4 of the year for potentially years.

[OnceUponAJen]

I guess all this is part of the price of fame. The internet is a blessing and a curse. All the squealing that used to be done while sitting around looking through magazines like Tiger Beat is now being done anonymously on the internet, where everyone can see. Twitter has added a whole other element to it by giving fans direct access of sorts. I'm guessing most of this is being done by teens and tweens, but you never know!

[pezgirl7]

Listen, Colin O'Donoghue is attractive, sure, but going on and on about how hot he is or how he looks so cute filming with JMo is just awkward.

 

I have no problem with people going on about how hot he is, but the shipping of him with Jennifer creeps me out. I think they're just taking their love of Captain Swan and transferring it to the actors. Wishing all the cute behind pics and interviews are actually the characters. Although it probably doesn't help when they sometimes talk as if they are their characters! I do feel bad for Colin's wife. Hopefully she stays away from all the crazy stuff online.

[Soteria]

To be fair most people just really adore their friendship and "broship" them. Those people are usually offended by the mere thought that they ship them in any other way. There are some people who ship them romantically but they are few and far between.

 

I understand the squeeing though, it's nice when the people who portray a couple you love enjoy working with each other and seem so enthusiastic about their characters relationship (since not all of them are). Between being the number one most reblogged canon ship on tumblr and all of these adorable bts pics, it's a nice time to be a CS shipper. :)

[Geeni]

Not to mention the shippers who make crap up about the actors' significant others. I remember reading on Tumblr that SQ shippers were telling everyone that Lana's now husband (but then fiance) was clearly neglectful and unsupportive of her and all that. It's just gross.

 

Similarly, about a month or so ago, a bunch of the Rumbelle shippers were speculating that Emilie's new boyfriend was abusive and that she was depressed with him, when there has been approximately zero evidence of it (quite the opposite, actually. She seems smitten with him).

Edited December 4, 2014 by Geeni

[Dani-Ellie]

Yeah, I think it's a little different sharing pictures of a celebrity couple at events and such and being all, "Aww!" (I fully admit that I was totally like that with Felicity Huffman and William H. Macy in the Sports Night/early Desperate Housewives era. Still kind of am, actually.) Making stuff up about the celebrities' significant others to fulfill some fantasy of "they're playing a couple on TV/in the movies, they must really be one!" is squicky to me.

 

(As is real-person fic/shipping. For me, it's one thing to play around with and make up stories about fictional characters. It's another thing entirely to make up stories about real people who actually exist in the time they exist (because I totally get that most of the stories about historical figures stories are more legend than truth) and have them like, hooking up with each other. I just ... why can't they do that with the characters? Or, in the case of the One Direction guys, make up a story about a boy band and hook up the two One-Direction-guy analogues?)

[maryle]

I think it is correct  to find the friendship between actor fun.( by example E. d. R and R.C or Colin and Jen ).

In fact, the actors know that ( most will play with it) and it is almost something that is expected from them by the show and fans. Its harmless 90% of the time.

T.v show or film success dépendent so much on concepts like identification, transfert and projection. That almost all castmate of all t.v show, film will play up their camaderie sometime its genuine sometime they hate each other.

I guess it can be weird for the s.o but there avantage and inconvenient to be with someone famous.

I think the real problem  is when people engage the actors or worst the s.o. about their fantasy  or do this kind of stuff. 

The actress from scandall I believe been victim of that kind of behavior.

[Faemonic]

Hat tip to retrograde's post here which linked this Twitter conversation.

 

Everything in time ‏@revengepsycho  Dec 4

I think that @ScottNimerfro might be the first ouat writer that support us, that's such a huge thing for such a beaten up fandom as #SQ
Scott Nimerfro ‏@ScottNimerfro  Dec 4
@revengepsycho what about the fabulous Jane Espenson?
∞ Stefanie ‏@Stef5255  10h10 hours ago
@ScottNimerfro @revengepsycho Jane used to be pro-SQ but then CS arrived, and now OQ. So no, not even Jane anymore. Just you, Scott.
Scott Nimerfro ‏@ScottNimerfro
@Stef5255 @revengepsycho Believe me, behind the scenes, Jane fights harder for you guys than anyone. #teamjane

 

Wholly cats, people actually liked how he wrote the Swan Queen dynamic of 405? I'd usually ship and let ship, but I don't think it's healthy for Emma to want to suck up to somebody so vindictive as Regina was that episode, just because "you don't give up on people".

 

It just looks to me as if the SQ fandom or at least these individuals are leaning more towards the Q portion what relating a lot to Regina's persecution complex.

[Dani-Ellie]

It just looks to me as if the SQ fandom or at least these individuals are leaning more towards the Q portion what relating a lot to Regina's persecution complex.

 

I've long felt that a vast majority of Swan Queen shippers are Regina fans first and foremost. Maybe it's because I am an Emma fan, but I can't conceive of a healthy romantic relationship that's built on one of the parties having tried to have the other killed as a newborn. And let's not forget how many times Regina has tried/plotted to kill Emma in the present.

 

Some of the SQ response I've seen to 4x05 has done nothing to sway me from that theory and has in fact bolstered it. Because I'm sorry, but how Regina treated Emma in that episode is not okay. When Lana Parrilla, who generally has no problem justifying how Regina behaves, is saying, "Yeah, she's really nasty to Emma here," there's a problem. And when some factions of the ship are cheering one party spending an entire episode verbally abusing the other and thinking the "I don't want to kill you" line was aww-inducing? Yeah, I'm side-eying that so very hard.

[Rumsy4]

Scott Nimerfro is queer-baiting, and acting as though he and Jane are a pro-SQ team struggling to convince A&E to make it canon. If he's not careful, he's going to end up fired. I think he's trying to get more SQers to watch his episode this Sunday, as his other one had the worst ratings this season. He's ruined the Emma flashbacks.

[RadioGirl27]

Wow, I've been a couple of days away and I've came back to find this.

This is pure queer-baiting to make happy a very vocal group of bullies and that's really problematic. But this is the same guy who retwitted a message about wanting to see young Emma (the actress is 16) making out with Lily. You can expect anything worthy from him.

Edited December 6, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[Shanna Marie]

But this is the same guy who retwitted a message about wanting to see young Emma (the actress is 16) making out with Lily. You can expect anything worthy from him.

And at an age when Emma said she was 13 or 14. If I was this actress's parents, I wouldn't allow her to be on set if this guy was there after that.

 

I just don't understand why they feel the need to placate/tease/play up to this particular group of fans. They may be vocal, but this is only encouraging that, and a lot of their outbursts have been pretty abusive to some cast members. I'd guess that about 95 percent of the general viewership of the show would react to the idea of Emma getting together with Regina like most of us do: "Huh? But both of them are in love with men now and have always been shown in relationships with men, and besides, Regina's been trying to kill Emma most of Emma's life and is the reason Emma's life has been so crappy." Another 3-4 percent would react like that but add "but hey, two hot chicks making out is hot, so I could go for that." I don't think at this point any actual gay activists (as opposed to wrapping their preferred ship in the cloak of gay rights) would be all that keen on getting their representation from a pairing like this because it's a twisted, abusive relationship in the making and because it perpetuates the "lifestyle choice" myth when two people abruptly switch teams after no previous signs of a different orientation. Any PR value from having this group of vocal fans promoting the show in fanfic, tumblr, etc. is diminished because if someone sees their stuff and likes it, the show will disappoint them, and if they see this stuff and think that's what the show is and don't like it, they might be turned away from the show. Would the viewership really drop that much if the people involved with this show just ignored this faction or told them flat-out that it's not gonna happen?

[Geeni]

 

Would the viewership really drop that much if the people involved with this show just ignored this faction or told them flat-out that it's not gonna happen?

 

It's funny because I believe it was last year that the crazy section of the SQ shippers campaigned for them all to "boycott OUAT". If they are not watching the show anymore, why do they care whether it becomes canon or not now?

[Rumsy4]

Adam's on Twitter "clarifying" how things work in the writers' room:

"... to be clear, there is no "fighting" behind the scenes. We're a team, us writers.

... No writer has "fought" for a ship. 1/2

... that's not how our writers room works. We discuss/debate STORY not ships. 2/2"

[Serena]

Yep, that's the all to predictable consequence of that guy running his mouth on Twitter. Hopefully, they also have a conversation about how expressing hope that two 14 year old girls "make out" is super creepy coming from a grown ass man.

[Camera One]

What Adam's comments really means:

 

He says: ... No writer has "fought" for a ship. 1/2

 

What it means: No need to fight for ships, since ALL we care about are ships!  We service them all, to hell with character development.

 

He says: ... that's not how our writers room works. We discuss/debate STORY not ships. 2/2"

 

What it means: Plot plot plot plot ship plot ship plot plot ship plot ship plot plot plot plot ship plot ship plot plot ship, in the form of "Wouldn't be crazy/Wouldn't it be neat/Wouldn't it be a crazy twist if..."

Edited December 6, 2014 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

I'm not usually a fan of Adam's responses, but this was a professional reply. Someone really needed to silence that nonsense Scott was spewing. Kudos to Adam.

(Not saying his reply was accurate in the slightest, but it did end something potentially destructive.)

Edited December 6, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Maybe they should come up with some guidelines for those live-tweets.  I guess Scott is new, so maybe he didn't know silence is golden.  Though Adam himself has been known to make some questionable comments from time to time so maybe they should all have a time-out.

Edited December 6, 2014 by Camera One

[FurryFury]

Really wouldn't mind for this Scott guy to go. Even his comments aside, his episode was one of the worst in the show's entire run, and that's saying something.

 

Oh, and while I wouldn't exactly be shocked to learn Espenson likes SQ (unhealthy relationships are very much her thing), I still feel like it's either wishful thinking or misunderstanding on his part. She's clearly a big fan of Rumbelle, but I'm not sure she cares that much about ships otherwise.

Edited December 6, 2014 by FurryFury

[sharky]

With the melodrama Scott is creating plus the SQers and whatever nonsense tomorrow's episode ends up being, I'm glad I have wine in the fridge.

Has a writer stepped out this crazy before in response to fans? I mean, I remember the drawf nonsense last year with SQ but what about the writers do in something similar? I haven't been that tuned in to Twitter to know.

Edited December 6, 2014 by sharky

[maryle]

New day bring new fanthom drama.

My two cents

Adams had to jump in because the Scott writer gave false hope to few activist in the SQ fanthom and A. Knowns by now that the few b.a will use the Twitt by Scott, to proof some point.

Scott gave false hope. I' m mot sûre if that what he wanted or he juste liked have attention from some faction But he said basically that te writer fight each other about their favorite ship.

Adams knows by now, that when the false hope (SQ becoming canon) do mot hapth he and probably Jen will have to deal with the backclash.

At this point to stop a bigger crisis he felt obligate to step in.

I will add that he Also felt the need to explain how work the writer room because Scott du ise the room between him and Jane fighting for the underdog SQ ans the others( canon couple) So the backclash will touch all of them

[Souris]

I think Scott Nimerfro is treading in turbulent waters and making things more turbulent. Given what he's written for the show (4x05 was atrocious!) and his Twitter history (like retweeting that young Emma & Lily should kiss and his vocal SQ support), I'm definitely not a fan. We'll see what his ep Sunday, with another newbie writer, brings, but from what I've seen, I'm not optimistic. I don't think he's a positive addition to the staff at all. Bringing in other writers to his discussions is very unprofessional, IMO. And when your boss has to go online to clarify/try to explain your tweets, that's not good.

 

I think he seems full of himself and self-promoting. He even tweeted that his ep Sunday is "the best!" I mean, WTF? Who says shit like that? And "Hope ALL enjoy this Sunday's episode of OUAT. It's a "mouthy" romp with lots of snark, sass, and swords.  Thx!"

 

Plus he said he didn't like Orphan Black, so his opinions are clearly wrong and twisted, LOL! ;) 

Edited December 6, 2014 by Souris

[Camera One]

Now I'm scared that Emma will break the Shattered Sight Curse by putting herself at Regina's mercy to show how much she really believes in her, and that Act of True Love will break the spell for everyone in town because it is just that powerful.

Edited December 6, 2014 by Camera One

[Faemonic]

I don't think at this point any actual gay activists (as opposed to wrapping their preferred ship in the cloak of gay rights) would be all that keen on getting their representation from a pairing like this because it's a twisted, abusive relationship in the making and because it perpetuates the "lifestyle choice" myth when two people abruptly switch teams after no previous signs of a different orientation.

I'd disagree with that last bit, actually. I could easily believe that the entire show started out with the premise that everybody is heterosexual, but with the magic of new media giving an ear to the landscape of the fanbase, the showrunners have had to tapdance to correct that base assumption. It's like a macrocosmic version of Sleeping Warrior, where Mulan was clearly supposed to be in love with Philip, but the writers clearly had some awkward flopping over to some "groundbreaking" (and I cannot put enough sarcastic quotes around the word) show of absolute, cowardly queerbaiting nothing that showed to be more problematic than the original idea, (of course Mulan's arc has to end in tears, she's a queer woman of color! Ahem so am I and I did not like how that was handled...to the point where I'd personally prefer they not have dabbled at all...) but people hungry for representation and validation for orientation would be happy that it's there at all. (Of course, I dislike even more the hue and cry of homophobic viewers all, "How do I explain to my kid this pushy gay agenda scene where nothing happened??" But that doesn't make the showrunners into champions for the cause.)

 

Swan Queen could work if they found the right angle for the characters in the relationship itself, instead of any other reason to get those two characters together, and that includes pandering to the fans, or wading into identity politics.

 

I believe that it could work even with the character history of straightness because, as I mentioned, it's likely that the showrunners presumed going in that everyone is straight. Considering that, I should forgive them learning and growing and doing something else outside their comfort zone behind the scenes, even if onscreen a gay relationship would be handled in as painfully awful a way as the relationship between children and parents (Why does Henry arrange a booty call for Emma??? What preteen child of a single parent does that?????), careers, legal proceedings, ethnic diversity, time, geography (is it pronounced AIR-un-dell or AAH-ron-dell or EH-ron-DALE, and why take a plane to New York from Maine it's right there),  and the magic system.

 

 

 

Would the viewership really drop that much if the people involved with this show just ignored this faction or told them flat-out that it's not gonna happen?

 

If it survived bringing in Frozen when people were just getting sick of Frozen, probably not.

Edited December 6, 2014 by Faemonic

[FormerMod-a1]

We're veering off the fandom topic here a little.  Don't forget we have a Writers thread, a What We Want to Happen thread and a Social Issues thread (and morality, speculation and character threads, etc).  

[Aliasscape]

The worst part about that is that some people get really nasty about it, telling Jen to come out of the closet and accusing her of promoting CS just because she's mad and heartbroken since she's in love with Lana and she got married. I really wish I was kidding about this.

And as far as I can tell, this PAR THE COURSE for real life fandom shipping. Every single relationship that doesn't fit the favored imaginary ship that that real person tries to have, is met with nothing but people tweeting them that they're lying, that the other person in the SHIP HATES their new relationship obviously, and that the new person is a beard of some sort. And if the boyfriend/girlfriend etc. is on twitter, they're met with a whole bunch of die tweets mostly.

 

I also don't know if it's tumblr/twitter or everywhere, but I'm really tired of any sort real life friendship being treated as a DISAPPOINTMENT because it's not a relationship.  If they somehow believably make Emma and Regina friends (ha!) then stopping there is going to be treated as a horrible, disappointing thing, because don'tcha know they are soulmates that belong together (in BED!) ?

 

I'm really tired of this idea that anything that's not romantic is worthless.  It's honestly one of the biggest markers to me that people want to just imagine these two people sexually together. Any little hand hold, hug, getting food for each other is supposed to lead back to sex together.

 

Absolutely no one seems to want these people--real or on screen--to just be good friends.

[myril]

Absolutely no one seems to want these people--real or on screen--to just be good friends.

 

Amen to that, Aliascape. As much as would love to see more diversity in romance (there is a sad and annoying lack of good and relatable same sex/gender romances on screen, and a few still might clutch at every straw). as much I would love to see more diversity in types of relationships, regardless if same sex/gender or different sex/gender relationships. I was glad to see, that in this forum people are mature enough to see for example story telling and character development potential in a respectful non romantic relationship between Hook and Belle. I find it sad, that fantasy in this fandom is so reduced by fans themselves to fairy tale princess love story, while fairy tales have never been that much about that and were stories about facing demons, dragons and growing up.

[Faemonic]

Amen to that, Aliascape. As much as would love to see more diversity in romance (there is a sad and annoying lack of good and relatable same sex/gender romances on screen, and a few still might clutch at every straw). as much I would love to see more diversity in types of relationships, regardless if same sex/gender or different sex/gender relationships. 

Also applauding Aliasscape. And adding: asexuality is a sadly underrepresented orientation, too!

 

I was glad to see, that in this forum people are mature enough to see for example story telling and character development potential in a respectful non romantic relationship between Hook and Belle.

 

I just realized that I only thought that I ship Hook with every potentially-consenting adult character: Emma, Regina, Tinkerbell, Aurora, Philip, Ruby, David, Wale, Sneezy, Rumpel...

 

Oh, my stars. He has negative chemistry with Belle to me. (And Snow and Mulan. And Will Scarlet.)

 

I find it sad, that fantasy in this fandom is so reduced by fans themselves to fairy tale princess love story, while fairy tales have never been that much about that and were stories about facing demons, dragons and growing up.

 

Ah, to this point...fairy tales are how the audience takes them, in my opinion. I want to believe that people have an instinct for what they need. So, if some viewers need to let their psychological Animus or Anima run wild, if that's what's their calling to explore, then I trust that's what their need is. And better with fiction than heaping such intense projections and expectations on real people. The fantasy of being challenged rather than being indulged isn't for everyone (although, I do also wish that the indulgence fantasy weren't everywhere and inescapable, gimme more dragons!)

[RadioGirl27]

I'm really tired of this idea that anything that's not romantic is worthless. It's honestly one of the biggest markers to me that people want to just imagine these two people sexually together. Any little hand hold, hug, getting food for each other is supposed to lead back to sex together.

Absolutely no one seems to want these people--real or on screen--to just be good friends.

A big yes to all your post. I hate how everything has to be about sex. Friendship is important too. It happens in all the shows and it can be frustrating.

I had to blacklist "Frozen Swan" in tumblr when some people started to ship romantically Emma and Elsa and started to call those who liked them being just friends homophobic. It's not a question of them being both women. I have a similar problem with AOS and Fitzsimmons.

Edited December 7, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[Dani-Ellie]

I had to blacklist "Frozen Swan" in tumblr when some people started to ship romantically Emma and Elsa and started to call those who liked them being just friends homophobic. It's not a question of them being both women. I have a similar problem with AOS and Fitzsimmons.

 

Ugh, that's happening? I was actually happy that the Frozen Swan stuff I'd seen was pretty much excitement over Elsa and Emma both finally finding a friend.

[Rumsy4]

Personally, I don't see a problem with shipping Emma and Elsa as a crackship. At least one of them didn't try to murder the other ever since they were born. ;-) Yes--friendship is important, and it can get tiresome to see everything being shipped romantically, but they co-exist! Besides, it's not like they spent time actually developing a friendship between the two women. The sisterly bond between Elsa and Anna was better developed, but then, there was the movie to begin with.

I've shipped many a non-canon pairing (like Katara). It's always annoying when "canon" shippers start acting snooty towards the non-canon and crackships. But of course, calling people homophobic for not shipping Emma/Elsa is ridiculous! Ship, and let ship and not-ship! ;-)

[Dani-Ellie]

Oh, absolutely. I have zero problems with people seeing Elsa/Emma as a romantic relationship. I was talking more about the wolf-cries of homophobia if people prefer to see them as friends.

Edited December 7, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[Minneapple]

I don't think the ship itself is the issue, but as RadioGirl pointed out, it's the shippers accusing non-shippers of homophobia.

[Rumsy4]

I agree. It's the same thing some SQs fans say. Once you've been in the HP fandom, and read fanfiction involving the Giant Squid, no crackship can faze you. ;-)

ETA: I saw some people accusing those who disliked Frozen Swan as a romantic pairing as homophobic when some of them were comparing FS to SQ, and asking the romantic FS shippers to use a separate ship name. Which is not fair. So, I think it goes both ways, tbh.

Edited December 7, 2014 by Rumsy4

[daxx]

The anti hook contingent must be out again.

I am seeing seriously nervous nellies on my dash again about Colin leaving or Jen saying that Captain Swan was going to be short lived (not true). I had to unfollow someone I have followed a long time because she posts continuously about her worry whenever anyone breathes that Colin might leave the show or Hook might die. People need to use common sense and consider the source.

[Rumsy4]

I know the poster you mean--they seem to have a perverse fixation on these death-rumors! It's almost like some people want to be nervous and unhappy all the time! lol

[RadioGirl27]

Yeah, I don't have a problem with people shipping Elsa and Emma, but I don't like people calling me something I am not, like homophobic, just because I don't ship them.

[FurryFury]

I've shipped many a non-canon pairing (like Katara).

 

Did you mean Zutara? Because I totally get this :) (but then, those writers are shit when it comes to romance)

 

Anyway, I've seen slash shippers accusing those who don't agree with them of homophobia lots of times. I think it's just shipper nature in general - people get so invested, they'll use any sort of argument to "win" in their heads, if not in canon. I find it especially disgusting when real-life social issues get brought into this, however, because while Once actually is at fault for lack of diversity, Swan Queen is still squicky as hell even without the sexuality question (think Buffy/Spike, but worse).

Edited December 7, 2014 by FurryFury

[Souris]

Obviously people can ship whatever they want, but when they start demanding of the writers and actors that their fanon ship become canon, that's taking it way too far. And if it's a same-sex pairing, their fans calling anybody who doesn't support it homophobic is disgusting and offensive to me. I feel like some fans wield social issues like homophobia and rape culture simply as a weapon to bludgeon other shippers with; it's really about the ship rather than the issue, which IMO ends up trivializing very real issues. SQ fans throw out the homophobia accusation all. the. time. 

[Rumsy4]

Oops--I did mean Zutara! lol

Yeah--accusations of homophobia made to further a slash ship is unfair and immature!

I just wanted to add another perspective that non-canon shippers can sometimes be pushed out unfairly as well. There are some CS fans who are always whining against other ships for Hook or Emma (like Sleeping Hook or Frozen Swan). And people can get smug when their ship becomes canon (the whole debacle over the Harry/Ron vs Hermione shipping left a lot of people with hurt feelings).

I think the homophobia accusations came up when people were complaining about people shipping Frozen Swan as a couple, and asking them not to use that tag, and making snide remarks that it was SQ all over again. If FS shippers are calling people who don't ship FS homophobic, that's definitely a bad thing. But if it was in reaction to being pushed out and/or lumped with SQ as a problematic ship, then, I feel like cutting them some slack.

[Camera One]

And people can get smug when their ship becomes canon

 

I find this a major turn-off... sometimes, it makes me disinclined to like a couple on a show, not because of the couple but because of how some vocal fans of that couple act.  It sort of became that way even for CS for me, but there are more egregious examples for other series, where there is such hate for "the other side" of a triangle.

[Shanna Marie]

but people hungry for representation and validation for orientation would be happy that it's there at all.

Yeah, I can see where that would be the case. What I was trying to say and phrased badly was wondering whether the people who are truly interested in representation (as opposed to using that to validate their 'ship of choice) would make Emma and Regina their stake in the ground, where if this particular couple doesn't get together, then they're done with the show, and it amounts to queerbaiting if they write the two characters the way they have and then chicken out of really going there, so that the writers feel they need to placate them the way they do. I could totally see that with Mulan, where just at the moment they make her lesbian (or at least bi) in canon, she suddenly falls off the face of the earth, but since there doesn't seem to be anything on the show itself that indicates any other orientation or any romantic interest between Emma and Regina I can't imagine that being the line-in-the-sand relationship that serves as a sign that the show isn't interested in representation at all. Which brings me back to the point of wondering why the writers and others involved with the show even bother trying to placate this faction when there's no way they have any intent of going there. I don't see the point of throwing that hashtag around whenever talking about the stuff actually happening on the show or throwing in those little teases in interviews or tweets rather than being honest that this is not the direction they plan to take those characters. It seems to me to be worse to tease it and act like it's a thing when they have no intention of actually doing anything on the show.

[Dani-Ellie]

The thing is, though, if I recall correctly, they have said that Swan Queen isn't going to happen. I completely agree that the baiting and teasing is obnoxious, but at the same time, it's not like saying, "Guys, we really thank you for and appreciate the passion you have for this, but it's not part of our vision and we're not going to be putting it onscreen" has been any kind of deterrent.

 

I personally wish they'd just ignore it entirely and stop feeding the trolls, but then again, I'm not the one who has to deal with the vitriol in my Twitter feed, either.

[Souris]

Which brings me back to the point of wondering why the writers and others involved with the show even bother trying to placate this faction when there's no way they have any intent of going there. I don't see the point of throwing that hashtag around whenever talking about the stuff actually happening on the show or throwing in those little teases in interviews or tweets rather than being honest that this is not the direction they plan to take those characters. It seems to me to be worse to tease it and act like it's a thing when they have no intention of actually doing anything on the show.

 

I don't get this, either. The cynical part of me wonders if it's simply a way to keep SQ fans watching the show and counting in the ratings. Or maybe they're so scared of the homophobic label that they bend over backwards to cultivate/placate SQ shippers without actually changing their vision and doing it on the show. They won't even call out SQ (or other) fans who clearly act like bullies online, instead thanking them for their "passion." I'm sorry, passion doesn't excuse rudeness and bullying. (But, then again, they let Regina get away with it on the show, so....)

 

I think that continuing to do things like tag #SQ or promote eps as SQ or tease it in interviews when it's not going to happen in a romantic sense on the show is total queerbaiting. And I find that disrespectful to both SQ lovers and SQ haters alike. 

 

They may have alluded in the past to SQ not happening on the show, but I feel like they need to say it forcefully again. If they say it enough, maybe it will finally sink in.

[Rumsy4]

They may have alluded in the past to SQ not happening on the show, but I feel like they need to say it forcefully again. If they say it enough, maybe it will finally sink in.

 

It's rather too late for that now, isn't it? They tried that approach, and it didn't work. And now, the OUAT promo team is tagging SQ, and one of their writers is making it sound like the writers are squabbling on making SQ canon. As it is, they're setting up the SQ fans for a big disappointment at the end of the series when Regina and Emma don't get together. Unless A&E plan to throw in a little wink that makes it seem as though Regina and Emma might have happened if not for circumstances. I hope they don't try to please everyone (and piss most people off in the process). 

[retrograde]

And yet it continues...

[maryle]

That's the really fascinating part.

They want to be  as progressive and I do think that the homophobic label is something they do not want to be linkee to them personally or to the show.

I remember a stupid article in the Huffington post claiming JMO is a homophone because she is not promoting SQ enough! or some bs similar.

The writer told that SQ will not happen but they also actively engage with them to prove they are inclusive knowing they will not change their narration arc. I understand and respect that.

Maybe the dilemma can be a demi resolve if Mulan return and fall for a female version of her prince, but the real SQ will never be totally happy with that.

I will never buy SQ as in romantic relationships and in fact realistically Emma should prefer a sleeping curse than beg for a friendship with Regina.