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Fandom and Viewer Issues: "Fan" Is Short for "Fanatic"

Emma

By Emma
in Once Upon A Time

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emmybenz
emmybenz

So, I'm a bit of an oddball here: I'm a Regina fan. I ship OQ & CS -- OQ a bit more. But this conversation caught my attention and I had to reply. I saw Lana at Regal Con this year, and I saw Lana

angelwoody
angelwoody

I see no reason why anyone (celebrity or not) is obligated to turn a rude tweet into a "teaching moment."  I think that social media can make people forget their manners.  I highly doubt that whoever

october
october

Their 'logic' changes depending on the circumstances so Hook always 'loses'. Outside of dumping Emma and pushing her into Regina's arms I don't think there's anything he could do to earn their approva

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Souris

Souris

Larry seems like a gigantic ass, but I'm VERY uncomfortable with banning any source, because that opens a can of worms about what is and isn't objectionable and where the line would be drawn and by whom. But I wouldn't have any objection to indicating what the source is with the link so people can choose for themselves whether to click.

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Faemonic

Faemonic

I'm on board with recommending a source be cited so that people can choose for themselves. And I feel that means I'm also on board with any ensuing flamewars over not citing sources in case people accidentally give this person traffic who didn't want to do that, because that wouldn't meet the standards of courtesy we've formed of letting people decide for themselves what to do with a link. And on board with discouraging "no thank yuck it's sourced from this guy but don't you know how he's awful how dare you can promote you're awful" in response to actual citations even if nobody follows the link, because I'd consider the vast majority of vocal posters here to be discerning and conscientious enough to take maybe even that much of a stand against it, and I'm no moderator but philosophically speaking that's probably still actually fine because...it's not real censorship, it's not even backdoor censorship, it's just frown power. Putting a forum-wide ban might save a lot of people that trouble, but I think it'd definitely rob us of an organic way to keep checking that y'all (me included, unless I'm on your ignore list, unless anyone is on anyone else's ignore list) are company that everyone else wants to keep letting into their consciousness.

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Mari

Mari

... I think it'd definitely rob us of an organic way to keep checking that y'all (me included, unless I'm on your ignore list, unless anyone is on anyone else's ignore list) are company that everyone else wants to keep letting into their consciousness.

You are absolutely on my ignore list, Faemonic!  In fact, sometimes I hit unignore (but don't read your posts) just so that I can hit ignore and banish you again.

 

:)

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sharky

sharky

So apparently, "Lana deserves better" is trending because she is up for Emmy nomination in the supporting actress category instead of lead. If any of these fans took five minutes to do a little internet research, they would realize that actors and actresses nominate themselves for categories, not the show. So LANA CHOSE to be a supporting actress and even that's not enough for some people. Geez.

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Curio

Curio

So apparently, "Lana deserves better" is trending because she is up for Emmy nomination in the supporting actress category instead of lead. If any of these fans took five minutes to do a little internet research, they would realize that actors and actresses nominate themselves for categories, not the show. So LANA CHOSE to be a supporting actress and even that's not enough for some people. Geez.

 

It's all a moot point anyways because there's not a chance in The Underworld that anyone from this cast will be nominated for an Emmy. If anything, Ginny being nominated for Lead Actress kind of makes the writers look bad for underutilizing an actress who should be more of a lead on this show, but has been consistently shoved to the background for several seasons now.

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sharky

sharky

Totally agree but again, it was Ginny who decided to be listed as a lead actress and not the show runners or the writers or a network. Frankly, I think this is more of a case of Lana thinking she has a better shot to be nominated in supporting even though she's really a lead, but that's just me.

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Shanna Marie

Shanna Marie

Wasn't there the case in the 90s where the entire cast of Friends nominated themselves in supporting categories? So, yeah, it's about picking a category that you might stand a chance in. Ginny probably can't get away with supporting as first billed, regardless of her screen time, or maybe she's counting on buzz from Zootopia helping, or else she realizes no one from this show stands a chance for any acting award, since the awards focus is on cable and Netflix dramas, so what the hell.

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Curio

Curio

Totally agree but again, it was Ginny who decided to be listed as a lead actress and not the show runners or the writers or a network.

 

That was part of the point I was trying to make. The fact that Ginny thinks she should be considered a lead, but the harsh reality that she's only a supporting player now, has to be a bit awkward. There's also a bit of Hollywood politics where if you have high name-recognition, the more pressure you have to submit your name into the more "prestigious" lead category.

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Delphi

Delphi

Well, Ginny is lead actress, she's first billed in the credits and I'm sure her starting salary was higher than everyone except Bobby's. Why would she nominate herself for supporting just because she's been sidelined.

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mjgchick

mjgchick

The Friends cast didn't all go for supporting. Jennifer won for lead. I think the Modern Family all go for supporting though. That's why its the hardest category to win anything. Most cast do that out of respect.

I feel like I'm the only one who never felt Lana was a lead. It's just the way the show is structured. Regina might be the writers favorite but the way they write her not so much plus it always seems like either Ginny or Jen are the main ones promoting this silly little show we all can't seem to quite. lol

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Curio

Curio

Well, Ginny is lead actress, she's first billed in the credits and I'm sure her starting salary was higher than everyone except Bobby's. Why would she nominate herself for supporting just because she's been sidelined.

 

Ginny did the right thing here. I'm just trying to get inside Ginny's head and think about how she must feel submitting herself as a lead, but having that little thought in the back of her head that thinks about how much she was utilized in Season 1 versus how the show uses her character now. Who knows, maybe she doesn't mind being more of a supporting character now because of being a new mother in real life, but it always fascinates me that this show has a fairly famous Hollywood actress on the show and doesn't use her to her full potential.

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Souris

Souris

(edited)

The Friends cast didn't all go for supporting. Jennifer won for lead. I think the Modern Family all go for supporting though. That's why its the hardest category to win anything. Most cast do that out of respect.

 

The Friends cast all submitted for supporting in the first several years of the show, but at some point all changed to submitting for lead.

 

I think sometimes the category submitted is a contractual thing. Ginny & JMo were definitely the female leads when they signed onto the show, so it may carry over from that. Sometimes it's simply an actor's choice. Sometimes there's probably network wrangling/discussion. Sometimes the actor just lets their manager/agent handle it and doesn't pay attention. There are all sorts of variables.

 

But it's pretty ridiculous that fans are up in arms about it; they clearly don't understand the business or Emmy nominations. And it's a complete moot point anyway -- it's not like Once is ever going to get an acting Emmy nomination.

 

But, well -- TS, TF (New acronym: This Show, This Fandom.)

Edited by Souris
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CheshireCat

CheshireCat

mjgchick, on 13 Apr 2016 - 5:33 PM, said:

I feel like I'm the only one who never felt Lana was a lead. It's just the way the show is structured. Regina might be the writers favorite but the way they write her not so much plus it always seems like either Ginny or Jen are the main ones promoting this silly little show we all can't seem to quite. lol

 

I never felt anyone on the show was a true lead. While we all have our favorites, they all have their part in the story and I'd say pretty much at equal shares (the original regulars, that is, Mader and Maguire not so much and maybe deRavin's share isn't as big as the others).

Generally, I think it's the agents who take care of the nominations anyway and it might just be something they do regularly, regardless of the chances/likelihood of winning. Anything to get their clients out there.

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Rumsy4

Rumsy4

Regina hasn't been central to the Season 5 arcs at any rate. Otherwise, she gets the chunk of the focus in the Show both in present day and in flashbacks. She still gets more focus than any other character but Emma. So, I can see why her fans would think of Lana as a co-lead. 

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KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

(edited)

Regina was closer to a co-lead in S2 or S3 where she got a lot more main focus. (The height of Once Upon a Regina.) She has played more of a supporting role in S4 and S5. I'm not saying she was a lead, but I could see people saying she was back then.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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HoodlumSheep

HoodlumSheep

(edited)

It's been a while since this topic has been lit up!

It's just dumb stuff. Lana is not the lead. Her fans need to get over it. It also has to do with being strategic. Lana would have a better chance getting nominated in the supporting role than lead. They aren't going to be nominated for a show like Once anyways.

As to why these people are nominating themselves--well, why not? It doesn't hurt anybody to just submit your name to at least be considered.

My twitter trends never show anything Once related anymore. I don't really know why, I've been following the same stuff for forever. The last time I saw a Once-related trend was probably during 5x08. I'm kind of glad though. It means I get to avoid those nonsense trends Sqers and the like do.

Edited by HoodlumSheep
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Mathius

Mathius

(edited)

The actor who plays Henry put up a new poll on Twitter with who's your favorite ship.  You can probably guess who's the winner.  There are some comments that he didn't include SQ.

 

I'm laughing that Rumbelle is dead last. I think that last episode really did a number on it even for longtime shippers.

Edited by Mathius
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LizaD

LizaD

In this case it was ABC studios, that did what looks like a wholesale submission for everything directly under their banner. It was probably some kind of publicity release by ABC, this according to Gold Derby. That kind of thoughtless mass submissions for sure went by credits.

Only the ones with a real shot, do the studio bother to work with actor, PR rep, agents etc. to strategize and campaign for an actual nomination.

And since everyone on Once has zero chance of getting a nomination, it's silly to get in a tizzy over it. Seriously the amount of submissions in each category is staggering. I think there were like 500 "submissions" in each of the big acting categories. 99% of voters will never even see 99% of the submissions. It's straight to the big names.

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Serena

Serena

(edited)

Wow, Rumbelle is losing hard in that Jared Twitter poll. I wasn't expecting that. I thought they would be first or second after CS. Are they less popular than they appear, or have they lost a lot of support lately?

And CS is getting half of the votes! This is interesting, because it's not something like the E!Online poll... this is one vote per Twitter account. Some people may be creating more Twitter accounts, I guess, but that would mean you need to create another email address, etc... a lot of work for not very much reward. 

Edited by Serena
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Camera One

Camera One

(edited)

The sad thing is Snowing has been steadily dropping. They're almost even with Rumbelle now.  No wonder A&E doesn't feel the need to spend any time or energy on Snow or Charming.  Not much fan outcry there.  They're not even close to Regina/Robin, for pity's sakes.  

Edited by Camera One
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Souris

Souris

(edited)

Wow, Rumbelle is losing hard in that Jared Twitter poll. I wasn't expecting that. I thought they would be first or second after CS. Are they less popular than they appear, or have they lost a lot of support lately?

And CS is getting half of the votes! This is interesting, because it's not something like the E!Online poll... this is one vote per Twitter account. Some people may be creating more Twitter accounts, I guess, but that would mean you need to create another email address, etc... a lot of work for not very much reward. 

 

Jared has been doing a bunch of Twitter polls, and they've tended to get in the 10K-15K range of votes. Favorite villain got over 17K votes, and I seriously doubt people were making new Twitter accounts to vote on THAT. The actors get a good amount of more general-audience-type Twitter followers who probably don't see much or any of the fandom drama. They just follow him because he's an actor in a show they like. I follow some random celebrities I like just to see what they post, but I never look at their mentions.

 

So I think Jared's poll is probably more indicative of general audience sentiment than some random fan account's poll that gets 800 votes. I think the most votes I've seen a fan poll get was like 1700. Of course, Twitter is just a teeny subset of the viewing audience. But if one were going to put any stock at all into a Twitter poll, Jared's would at least be vaguely representative.

Edited by Souris
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KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

(edited)

Snowing ended up losing to Rumpbelle for last place, 13% to 14%, respectively. Captain Swan won by a landslide with more than the double the percentage of second place.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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Rumsy4

Rumsy4

(edited)

So many comments on the OUAT Facebook page begin with the word "Really?" There was a lot of outrage over the casting of a black actress to play Rapunzel as well. I wonder if these people will really stop watching and how the ratings will be affected.

Edited by Rumsy4
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Camera One

Camera One

(edited)

I thought Facebook would at least have more civil and tolerant comments than Twitter since names are tied to comments, but that's clearly not the case.  Go to any news outlet's Facebook page, and there are so many discriminatory and insensitive remarks with almost every news article out there.  It really makes one sad about human nature, and raises questions about how far we have really come.

Edited by Camera One
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Rumsy4

Rumsy4

Saying ONCE is a family show seems really odd reason to say an LGBT romance ruined the "family" aspect. The Show is full of suspect morals and questionable consent, and this is what offends them??

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Souris

Souris

I wish I could say I'm surprised, but I'm not. That's the ugly flip side of the GA. Camera One is right, you see this sort of nasty vitriol under just about every news story out there. It's depressing.

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KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

(edited)

 

Saying ONCE is a family show seems really odd reason to say an LGBT romance ruined the "family" aspect. The Show is full of suspect morals and questionable consent, and this is what offends them??

The show did nothing worse last night than it usually does. All it did differently was touch on a subject that's in hot debate across the internet right now. As a gay person myself, I didn't find the episode offensive. I found it lackluster. I'm not more unhappy with it than I normally am. However, it's sad to see so many complaints from both supporters and opponents of LGBT. We've got a long way to go.

 

I was surprised by all the anti-LGBT sediment coming out of the woodwork. I probably shouldn't have been.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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Kktjones

Kktjones

Wow - I'm almost impressed that Adam & Eddy managed to piss off pretty much every segment of the fandom last night. CaptainSwan fans are upset that Dorothy and Ruby got a TLK before their couple. Rumble fans are mad that Belle put herself under a sleeping curse while counting on her father (of all people) to wake her. Snowing is split up, OutlawQueen was apart the entire episode again. Of course the SwanQueen crowd is upset that the writers just threw in a "token" LGBT relationship when they wanted SQ and only SQ. But by far the worst and most disgusting response has been from the "General Audience" on Facebook. I skimmed through there last night and this morning, and I can't believe what some people are writing there - and under their real names! The homophobic comments are worse and more prevalent than I ever would have imagined. It's almost enough to make me feel bad for A&E. It seems they were damned either way...

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tri4335

tri4335

Saying ONCE is a family show seems really odd reason to say an LGBT romance ruined the "family" aspect. The Show is full of suspect morals and questionable consent, and this is what offends them??

 

This^^.  This show has dubious consent not once but several times, spousal abuse, eggnapping, eating children, rewarding of villainous acts and it is the LGBTQ characters who "ruin" it.  Give me a f'ing break!.

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OnceUponAJen

OnceUponAJen

Fans are going to have to understand that Captain Swan is going to be the couple that is the last to get all the things in this show (i.e. TLK, marriage, whatever. Although they did almost move in together). Emma's happy ending will be delayed until the very end of the show, most likely. If they never get any of the things, I'd have a hard time understanding that, though. I doubt that will happen.

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Curio

Curio

You can't escape the negativity anywhere. On one end of the spectrum, you have the conservative side shouting, "This is a family show, God is a boob man." On the other end, you have the delusional people shouting, "But we wanted Regina and Emma, even though it's blatantly clear that that's not going to happen and we've been reading into nothing for years, but we're still going to call you all homophobic for not believing us." And in the middle, you have the rational crowd of fans who just wanted a decent story and better LGBT and racial representation for years.

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Mari

Mari

Well, apparently Hook is an abusive rapist, and the relationship is unhealthy.

 

(Why do I get the feeling the same people would be fine with Rumple/Belle or Emma/Regina? Am I stereotyping?)

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Mathius

Mathius

(edited)

First his "CS reunited at last" tweet, then the ship poll "forgetting" SQ, now this.

 

Yeah, at this point Jared, like JMO, clearly does not give a shit if he offends the SQ fandom.

 

Cracking up that one tweet read: "then swanqueen, the actual ship that includes you is not nothing for you?"

 

SQ "includes Henry?"  BOY, did that come out wrong!

 

(Why do I get the feeling the same people would be fine with Rumple/Belle or Emma/Regina? Am I stereotyping?)

 

Sadly, not that much.

Edited by Mathius
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KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

(edited)

 

 

Well, apparently Hook is an abusive rapist, and the relationship is unhealthy.

(Why do I get the feeling the same people would be fine with Rumple/Belle or Emma/Regina? Am I stereotyping?)

Well, if he can't ship Captain Swan because it's an abusive relationship, what other options are there? The one where the girl killed the guy's wife? I don't understand why people label Hook as a wife-beater type. I just don't. I think it's stereotyping.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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Selina K

Selina K

Well, if he can't ship Captain Swan because it's an abusive relationship, what other options are there? The one where the girl killed the guy's wife? I don't understand why people label Hook as a wife-beater type. I just don't.

 

Someone helpfully posted a gif of that time Hook backhanded Belle to remind everyone how Hook is an all in beater of women.

 

The fact that at the time Belle was Regina's prisoner for no reason whatsoever is not important.

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mjgchick

mjgchick

Well, if he can't ship Captain Swan because it's an abusive relationship, what other options are there? The one where the girl killed the guy's wife? I don't understand why people label Hook as a wife-beater type. I just don't. I think it's stereotyping.

Its not stereotyping, its wishful thinking. The more they say it the more they believe it because it gives them a rational reason to hate him other than "Neal died because of Hook." or "Hooks in the way of *insert ship.*" or "Rumple is being thrown under to make Hook look better."

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Mari

Mari

Which is interesting, because I have trouble seeing Hook--relationship-wise, not necessarily other crimes---as more vile than some of the people he's supposedly worse than.

 

Regina?  Rapist.  Also, abusive.

Neal?  Statutory Rapist.

Rumple?  Abusive, controlling, and a spouse killer.

 

I just don't get the "Don't ship Hook with Emma because abusive rapist!", when it's okay to ship her with Regina and Neal, and ship Rumple/Belle.  Their logic is not my logic.

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