Fandom and Viewer Issues: "Fan" Is Short for "Fanatic"

[retrograde]

I've noticed Adam and all the writers have been very quiet on Twitter yesterday and today, with little to no Once-related interaction. It could simply be a coincidence or that they're busy, but given the ep on Sunday, it makes me wonder. I haven't looked to see what people are tweeting to them, whether there is a lot of blowback they're wanting to avoid or not. I just thought it was interesting.

Blowback from what? I admittedly don't read a whole lot of ship-specific stuff, but from what I've seen, the Swan Queen crowd were thrilled to get a whole episode of Emma and Regina. The Captain Swan fans got plenty to GIF out of the opening and closing scenes. And the RumBelle folks... well, they're looking forward to next week. The main people who seemed annoyed by the last episode are, well, us, and people here don't seem the type to harass the writers on Twitter.

Edited October 29, 2014 by retrograde

[regularlyleaded]

Blowback from what? I admittedly don't read a whole lot of ship-specific stuff, but from what I've seen, the Swan Queen crowd were thrilled to get a whole episode of Emma and Regina. The Captain Swan fans got plenty to GIF out of the opening and closing scenes. And the RumBelle folks... well, they're looking forward to next week. The main people who seemed annoyed by the last episode are, well, us, and people here don't seem the type to harass the writers on Twitter.

Because with the writers on this show the squeaky wheel most definitely gets the grease...I guess we should feel good about ourselves that we stick to venting in these forums and don't go around throwing twitter fits like ill tempered toddlers. Yay, us :-|

[Rumsy4]

I was never more tempted to rant at Adam and write a strongly worded letter to abc than after the travesty of Sunday night's episode. But I refrained. Dang logic and self-restraint! :-p 

 

Yeah--the SQ fans and Regina-lovers are ecstatic. Many viewers don't seem to like Emma that much either. So they probably don't care she got piled on so much. I really want to know what the casual viewers thought. 

[regularlyleaded]

I'm having a meta moment, guys. We're the fandoms equiavalent to Emma. We just take things as they come, stewing and venting internally here out of the way, don't take our hate outside, we generally internalize it to these boards. But meanwhile the entitled fanatics of the show, the whiners and hate-mongers (i.e. The fandoms equivalent of Woegina) throw every insult in the book (and then some) at the actors and writers and what happens? They get what they wanted.

 

Hehe, It's so pathetic and frustrating (to be us here) that's it's almost funny.

Edited October 29, 2014 by regularlyleaded

[Dani-Ellie]

So they probably don't care she got piled on so much.

They totally don't. My friend in the femslash community was sharing Tumblr posts with me after the ep and I was all, "And on the other side of the coin, there's this" and proceeded to air my complaints. She doesn't watch so she has no vested interest one way or the other but she was all, "Okay, yeah, if there was no reciprocity, then that's not fair."

 

The reciprocity issue was my whole problem. I wouldn't have minded Regina being such a mega-bitch if Emma had been allowed to dish it right back to her. But since she wasn't, it was Regina whining and Regina been portrayed as in the right while Emma stands there and takes her abuse because she was so very wrong. The Regina fans had absolutely no problem with that and were even cheering her on. Meanwhile, the Emma fans were quietly seething.

[regularlyleaded]

I'm still quietly seething...though, maybe not so quiet anymore ;)

[retrograde]

I'm having a meta moment, guys. We're the fandoms equiavalent to Emma. We just take things as they come, stewing and venting internally here out of the way, don't take our hate outside, we generally internalize it to these boards. But meanwhile the entitled fanatics of the show, the whiners and hate-mongers (i.e. The fandoms equivalent of Woegina) throw every insult in the book (and then some) at the actors and writers and what happens? They get what they wanted.

 

Hehe, It's so pathetic and frustrating (to be us here) that's it's almost funny.

Do we get to make out with hot pirates? Because I guess I'd be okay with that as a consolation. 

[Minneapple]

I saw a few Captain Swan shippers on Twitter complaining about the treatment of Emma, but I'm guessing that they were dismissed as nutty shippers. Everywhere else the episode was welcomed with open arms. Which I really don't get. But whatever. At least we have this place to vent!

[Rumsy4]

I'm having a meta moment, guys. We're the fandoms equiavalent to Emma. We just take things as they come, stewing and venting internally here out of the way, don't take our hate outside, we generally internalize it to these boards. But meanwhile the entitled fanatics of the show, the whiners and hate-mongers (i.e. The fandoms equivalent of Woegina) throw every insult in the book (and then some) at the actors and writers and what happens? They get what they wanted.

 

Hehe, It's so pathetic and frustrating (to be us here) that's it's almost funny.

 

LMAO!! So very meta. 

 

Do we get to make out with hot pirates? Because I guess I'd be okay with that as a consolation. 

 

That most certainly would!

[Emma]

Maybe I follow the right people on tumblr, twitter, and places like here and fan forum because I saw plenty of outrage on Emma's behalf. I think they're just more intelligent in how they express themselves. In my experience Emma fans band together instead of acting like drama queens looking for attention.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Emma

[Souris]

Yeah, I mostly stayed here and on people I follow on Tumbler, so I saw a lot of outrage, which is what I meant by blowback. No clue about the general fandom -- and I probably don't want to know. But maybe Emma fans need to be a little squeakier, since that seems to be what works in this fandom! (But logical/intelligent squeaky, not entitled/bullying squeaky.) If all TPTB hear from is Regina stans, they'll assume that's what most people want -- especially since it seems to fall in line with their proclivities.

 

The fact that SQ and Regina fans were thrilled with the ep speaks volumes about how they feel about Emma. I don't think anybody who actually likes Emma would have enjoyed seeing her put through the verbal abuse she got in this ep.

[pezgirl7]

The writer of Breaking Glass retweeted a tweet from some girl that said young Emma and the young "Regina look-a-like" should have made out. I think there was another comment from someone who couldn't wait for a Emma/Regina sleepover, in a way that made it seem like they actually thought it would happen. I have no problem with people shipping whomever they wish, but when people skew the story and ignore what I consider to be obvious character traits/developments, in order to suit their own fantasies, and then they post about it as if it were fact, I just can't understand it.

[Rumsy4]

TBF, there were some generally thoughtful/articulate Emma/CS fans claiming that it showed Emma's maturity in how she restrained herself from lashing out in contrast to Regina. Of course, some those bloggers also happen to be Evil Regals/Regina fans. :-p

[Camera One]

The writer of Breaking Glass retweeted a tweet from some girl that said young Emma and the young "Regina look-a-like" should have made out. 

 

I got that vibe in a few scenes actually since they were so weirdly stilted.  Lily's obsession for Emma came out of nowhere and ramped to max.

[pezgirl7]

But my point was that it was a "Regina look-a-like". I can't imagine the writers were actually going for a romantic or sexual vibe to parallel grown up Emma/Regina.

[Camera One]

That's what I was wondering pezgirl7.  That would have been going too far.  Or maybe not, since that writer retweeted it.

[Souris]

I don't know, so much in the ep felt like queer-baiting to me. It's not something I generally see on the show, but I thought there was a bunch in the ep. Even down to Will asking if MM was married to "the blonde" when she said she was married to the sheriff.

[retrograde]

I mostly just read the once-upon-a-time tag and a few others on tumblr, conversations the writers have with fans on Twitter, and comments on various TV sites. I assume this offers a generally broad view of attitudes in different sub-fandoms, but maybe not. And of course, the vast majority of viewers probably don't say anything about the show online at all, so I have no idea what they're thinking. 

[pezgirl7]

I guess that's where the whole queer baiting thing comes up. Whether the writers intended the slashyness, or not, he retweeted that tweet, and I just can't see SwanQueen as ever happening on the show.

[Rumsy4]

The abc tumblr also posted a vine of Emma/Regina with a heart icon next to it, and tagged it "swanqueen". If that's isn't Qb, I don't know what is.

 

In the episode, in addition to what Souris said, Regina actually used the words "You want to win me back" or some horsecrap like that. That's not what one tells a friend. 

Edited October 29, 2014 by Rumsy4

[InsertWordHere]

I've seen claims that the True Love theme was playing during Emma and Lily's scene on the couch, but it sounded like Emma's theme to me. Or maybe I was just assuming it was Emma's theme since it was, you know, an Emma flashback. Of course, it wouldn't surprise me if the people making this claim don't even know Emma has a theme since they don't seem to have much time for her when she's not interacting with certain characters.

I don't know, so much in the ep felt like queer-baiting to me. It's not something I generally see on the show, but I thought there was a bunch in the ep. Even down to Will asking if MM was married to "the blonde" when she said she was married to the sheriff.

Yes, and since Will was already aware that there were two sheriffs because Charming told him in 4.03, I've seen some people arguing that it is"proof" that Emma is bi, because a stranger assumed she was in a relationship with her own mother. I know it's possible that Emma is bi, as we have no definitive proof one way or the other, but I don't think that's what Will's line meant. I'm not sure if I would define it as queerbaiting, since the audience is clearly aware of the relationship between Snow and Emma.

[retrograde]

I think queerbaiting is real and problematic thing some TV shows do. I think that ABC marketing is engaging in queerbaiting with that tumblr/vine thing. But I can't say I personally saw any in this latest episode. I think Will's line was just the standard OuaT "I don't understand the crazy age thing this family has going on!" joke. I think young Emma and Lilly seemed pretty much exactly like most early-teen girls -- becoming BFFs instantly, trying too hard to impress the other (and yes, sometimes teen girls also have romantic feelings for each other, but I didn't see anything that suggested these two did). If you're on the lookout for individual lines that could be taken a certain way, you'll find them (in this and almost any text), but... things like "You want to win me back" seems kinda tenuous to me. If the writers were really trying to throw in either some *wink wink nudge nudge* moments, or moments specifically designed to engender hope in the Swan Queen fandom, I'm pretty sure they could do much better than that.

[Camera One]

I think young Emma and Lilly seemed pretty much exactly like most early-teen girls -- becoming BFFs instantly

 

I can see that with pre-teen girls around 9-11 years old, but not really teens at the age that Young Emma and Lilly were portrayed.  Sometimes, they're a little standoffish at that age and it takes a lot more time to gain trust.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Camera One

[KAOS Agent]

I'm not at all happy with people sexualizing 14 year old kids. That goes for kids of both genders. I am not comfortable with people thinking that it would be great for this 14 year old girl to make out/have sex with this other 14 year old boy/girl that she just met. It pushes sexual fantasies of adults onto children and it's really quite disturbing.

[Camera One]

It is really quite irresponsible.  Maybe they were just going for the idea of friendship.  That if Emma and Regina had met under different circumstances, they might have become friends.  Or something.  They must have made her look like a Young Regina for a reason.

[retrograde]

I mean they're both brunettes, but I don't really think they look all that alike. I didn't see any comments saying "Lilly = Regina therefore they should get it on" (though I believe you guys that they were around) but I did see a bunch commenting on the "chemistry" and "sexual tension" between young Emma and Lilly, which... yeah, is not something adults should be writing about 14 year olds on the internet. 

[InsertWordHere]

And not just because of the characters' ages. Abby Ross is only sixteen, I believe. So it's not like people watching 20-somethings play teenagers on Dawson's Creek or what have you.

[RadioGirl27]

I'm so grossed out right know. To sexualize kids to fullfill your sexual fantasies is sickening.

Edited October 29, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[YaddaYadda]

Oh!  Now I remember why I never visit this thread anymore.  I also remember why I'm not on Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, Instagram...Ignorance truly is bliss.

[angelwoody]

I got that vibe in a few scenes actually since they were so weirdly stilted.  Lily's obsession for Emma came out of nowhere and ramped to max.

The vibe I got from Lily was too much too fast, insta-friend, with a little bit of single, white female thrown in.  To be honest, she screamed trouble to me and I didn't like her even before the reveal that everything she said to Emma was 100% bull.  

 

I think I'm in the minority but I'm glad that Emma didn't take her address and stay in touch.  She was a mess and a liar and once her lies were revealed, she tried to guilt Emma into continuing the friendship.  But really, there was no actual friendship because Lily was not at all who she said she was.  Since she was clearly troubled and only a teenager, I can't get too upset with her for her behavior, but at the same time I'm glad Emma walked away.  Emma really didn't need the lies, drama or nonsense that girl represented.

 

Which clearly means she'll be back and they will become besties.  Because nothing on this show is going the way I'd like right now, lol.

Edited October 29, 2014 by angelwoody

[ShadowFacts]

I said something similar, angelwoody, this kid was lying and was trying too hard to get close to Emma, too fast.  Though I know adolescents behave like this at times, it was over the top.  I didn't get where they were going with this flashback, it didn't make sense to me, I didn't see what parallel they were going for, but watching it I knew it was going to ignite a whole bunch of overreaction in the various fandom subsets. 

[Dani-Ellie]

I didn't get where they were going with this flashback, it didn't make sense to me, I didn't see what parallel they were going for, but watching it I knew it was going to ignite a whole bunch of overreaction in the various fandom subsets.

 

When "Emma and Lily" was trending, I saw a tweet come through that said, "So Emma and Lily slept together?!" And it was like, come on, you guys. They were foot-to-foot at opposite ends of the couch. The TV was playing static. It was clear to me that they'd been watching TV/movies and fell asleep, just like any other teenage girls at a sleepover. So yeah, they "slept together," if you take that phrase to mean what my eight-year-old self thought it meant and thus couldn't understand why Blanche Deveraux sleeping with all those men was such a big deal: "But they're just sleeping!"

 

It's one thing to claim to see subtext but it's another thing entirely to purposely twist what's being shown and make it something it's very clearly not.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[angelwoody]

I said something similar, angelwoody, this kid was lying and was trying too hard to get close to Emma, too fast.  Though I know adolescents behave like this at times, it was over the top.  I didn't get where they were going with this flashback, it didn't make sense to me, I didn't see what parallel they were going for, but watching it I knew it was going to ignite a whole bunch of overreaction in the various fandom subsets. 

Yeah, I didn't get it either.  Instead of taking an Emma flashback and using it to tell us something about EMMA and her difficult life growing up, I feel like they squandered it introducing this pointless character and were trying to tell us something negative about Emma via her handling of the situation.  

 

As I said, I didn't read it that way because if I had a daughter, I would want her to steer clear of Lily, who was very obviously troubled - but I don't feel like it was what the show was saying.  And how that was supposed to compare with Emma and Regina's relationship?  I can't really get there either - and not only for the fact that all of the Emma pleading and Regina rebuffing scenes made me want to vomit.

Edited October 29, 2014 by angelwoody

[Rumsy4]

Well... this was touted as the SQ episode. So, naturally, people reading homoerotic subtext in Regina/Emma scenes were going to do the same with Lily/Emma. I agree it wasn't there, and Lily was all kinds of shady. But this is A&E. In their mind, Eva created Monster Cora. So of course it was made out as though Emma is an unforgiving person, and doesn't give people second chances. Never mind that that isn't right or relevant in either scenario.

[Curio]

I don't know, so much in the ep felt like queer-baiting to me. It's not something I generally see on the show, but I thought there was a bunch in the ep. Even down to Will asking if MM was married to "the blonde" when she said she was married to the sheriff.

Am I the only one who interpreted that scene differently? I thought Will was referring to Charming as "the blonde," but then Snow was the one who weirdly interpreted it as her own daughter. Will clearly knows Emma is dating Hook and has a son, so it was just an odd line to throw in there for some cheap comedic relief.

[legaleagle53]

And they're at it again on Twitter:  Lana just retweeted a Vine clip of Regina saying that she doesn't want to kill Emma and hashtagged it #SwanQueen followed by a red heart.

 

It's never going to die, people, never!

Edited October 29, 2014 by legaleagle53

[Serena]

LOL, that just made me check JMo's Twitter, and the latest Once related things she's posted are: pics of EM, pics of the Frozen cast with her dog, a pic of herself and Colin at a game, and she replied to a fan who tweeted about how similar a Rapunzel/Flynn pic was to the Colin pic she posted. She didn't even tweet to watch the episode! It's hilarious but it shows oh so much about her true feelings about it. It's the first Emma flashback since 206 and Jen doesn't even tweet to watch it?

[Mari]

I just. . . don't get it. I ship couples all the time that'll most likely never end up onscreen, and I get that people have different ideas about romance - but that scene was like one of those old, old Harlequins where one character is horrific to the other for all but the last couple pages.

On top of that, it's a romance that's not going to happen onscreen. If I were a Regina/Emma pairing fan, this would all just make me angry - especially if they were pushing that abusive rot as my chance to see my ship in action.

What positive outcome does ABC and Parilla expect from pushing it as a big love connection? It's not like it's the big moment where their epic love relationship starts, and that's pretty well known--it's one more moment in a series of "Regina's a jerk." moments.

 

Edited yet again, because apparently if I don't have a keyboard I am unable to spell or remember basic grammar rules. 

Edited October 29, 2014 by Mari

[kili]

Lana just retweeted a Vine clip of Regina saying that she doesn't want to kill Emma and hashtagged it #SwanQueen followed by a red heart.

 

Yes, because everybody who isn't killing the people who live in their town are secretly in love with them. Regina isn't killing Grumpy either. Or Grannie. Or Archie. Grumpy Queen+Lasagne Queen+Cricket Queen forever!

Edited October 29, 2014 by kili

[sharky]

Oh my Thor! Lana is either a troll or....no, she's just a troll. You know, the Internet kind and not the Frozen kind. We've had plenty of talk in this thread about fans ignoring Adam and Eddy repeatedly saying Swan Queen won't happen and now it turns out Lana is one of those fans! It jut makes it worse for the rest is us who try to stick with "fan" without the fanatic part.

[YaddaYadda]

I wonder...how popular is OQ?  I mean this is Lana's pairing that's barely on screen, barely had any type of development.  Is it possible that she's doing this to sort of keep interest alive for her character?

[Alex]

Lana just retweeted a Vine clip of Regina saying that she doesn't want to kill Emma and hashtagged it #SwanQueen followed by a red heart.

 

The OUaT Facebook page did the same an hour ago: clip of Emma and Regina with the hashtag and the heart.

 

Are they programming to kill off Robin Hood and Hook so that they can have SwanQueen at last? Just to know and prepare myself to the havoc!

[Rumsy4]

ONCE abc and Lana are blatantly Qb now, but I feel like they gave in to pressure. The loud SQ fans have been doing a systematic push over months and years for them to promote their ship as much as the canon ones like CS, Rumbelle, etc., and they finally got their wish. I guess they'd rather be accused of queer-baiting than of being homophobic. That's the only explanation that makes any sense to me.

[legaleagle53]

I just. . . don't get it. I ship couples all the time that'll most likely never end up onscreen, and I get that people have different ideas about romance - but that scene was like one of those old, old Harlequins where one character is horrific to the other for all but the last couple pages.

On top of that, it's a romance that's not going to happen onscreen. If I were a Regina/Emma pairing fan, this would all just make me angry - especially if they were pushing that abusive rot as my chance to see my ship in action.

What positive outcome does ABC and Padilla expect from pushing it as a big love connection? It's not like it's the big moment where their epic love relationship starts, and that's pretty well known--it's one more moment in a series of "Regina's a jerk." moments.

 

As a matter of fact, one response to that video was from a Tweeter who point-blank said that "Queerbaiting isn't nice."  So yeah, I don't see the point, either.  If they think it's going to pacify the more rabid SwanQueen shippers out there, they're wrong -- it's going to blow up in their faces big time.

Edited October 29, 2014 by legaleagle53

[Dani-Ellie]

Are they programming to kill off Robin Hood and Hook so that they can have SwanQueen at last? Just to know and prepare myself to the havoc!

 

Bite your tongue! ;)

 

I will cry. Because no way in hell is Emma Swan's Happily Ever After with the person who took everything from her in the first place.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[Alex]

Bite your tongue! ;)

 

I will cry. Because no way in hell is Emma Swan's Happily Ever After with the person who took everything from her in the first place.

 

Ouch, it hurts! (biting my tongue!)

 

I will cry because I have a very personal interest in Emma and Hook together (like living very very vicariously through them and trying to find answers to my messy life?!!)! 

[Emma]

I felt bad for Jen because she started tagging all of her ship names in her tweets and/or instagrams. But at least she's not baiting the fans like Lana is now doing.

 

I'm telling you everything changed with that After Ellen crap.

[RadioGirl27]

Verbal abuse is soooooooooooooo romantic and such an obvious proof of True Love.

Really, this makes me so mad. I have no respect for Lana Parrilla, and I expect her to do things like this (I mean, she thought the "relationship" between Regina and Graham was fun and flirtatious), but ABC queerbaiting is just ridiculous and plain wrong.

[Serena]

I wonder...how popular is OQ?  I mean this is Lana's pairing that's barely on screen, barely had any type of development.  Is it possible that she's doing this to sort of keep interest alive for her character?

Definitely. I mean, I feel like she loves OQ - and definitely likes Sean much more than JMo. But she knows a BIG part of her fanbase is all for SQ and she does that to keep them happy. For the longest time - until 3B - SQ was the only popular Regina ship. Even though Regina is claimed to be the most popular character, Emma has definitely always been the most shippable character. If JMo pisses off one of her ships, like two thirds of her fans ship something else and would be laughing about it. Lana only had the SQers for most of the show's run. She also pushes big for OQ, though.

 

I don't even feel like Lana even sincerely likes SQ. I mean, she hates Emma. I know that so do most of SQ fans, but I don't feel like it's similar. She says shit to keep them happy, she queerbaits them, but then once in a while she comes out with something that shows she really doesn't get it. Even in the AE interview, she was like "I guess people like them because... they're hot? They're like a blonde and a brunette so that's like... something people like". And in early S3, she said in an interview "well, Regina's love interest has to be manly!" I still remember it because I went WTF at "manly". 

Edited October 29, 2014 by Serena

[maryle]

You so scare me.

I'm not following any of them on twitter ... and just begin a tublr account but what I saw the last few months really make me change my view on Regina, and fandom in general. I really believe it was calming down . Now I'm scared it will worsen even more.

I know I cannot Watch last episode because I feels it is a giant manipulation and destroy the overall  story.