YaddaYadda April 2, 2015 Share April 2, 2015 Oh, it was all obvious ever since Tallahassee (which I liked, at least the non-flashback part). But he just didn't work well as a villain, thus the reaction. I never really pegged him as a true villain though. I mean in the grand scheme of things, he'd be your friendly neighborhood drug dealer. He deals drugs which is really stupid and against the law, but he's not the mob boss type of thing. After watching The Crocodile and the frat boy attitude, it was more of a please grow the fuck up asshat. They had already given him the tragic backstory, so it was just difficult to blame him for wanting to go to Storybrooke and get Rumple and aligning himself with Regina and Cora though he was more their errand boy than anything else. Him taking Aurora's heart was terrible especially with what happened to Milah. He did return it, so I guess that helps, but shooting Belle in the back was uncalled for. Things after he failed at killing Rumple turned around pretty quickly. Hook more an idiot hothead than a villain. 2 Link to comment
Zuleikha April 2, 2015 Share April 2, 2015 I'm going to respond in the Hook thread because my response has nothing to do with fandom. :) 1 Link to comment
Rumsy4 April 3, 2015 Share April 3, 2015 (edited) I always enjoyed Hook as a character. But I was confused about where they were taking his character, because in all of S2, I kept thinking that Emma/Neal was endgame. I was sort of marginally involved with the online fandom until then, and my feelings was that people generally liked him, and that many people thought he was hot (haha). It's in S3 that I started shipping CS, and fell in love with Hook. Then I got active on TWoP, and started looking for CS stuff on tumblr, and the rest is history... ETA: Bringing the discussion back to the season as a whole, I think 4B could end with a severe drop in ratings. While S2 saw a huge drop in general viewership, with S4, the writers seem to be pissing off most factions of the hardcore viewership base. Emma and CS fans are annoyed at Emma's strange determination to be Regina's (punching bag) friend, and bring her a Happy Ending. Fans of OUATiW are pissed about the destruction of Scarlet Queen. There is no need to say anything to explain why the Rumbellers are upset. The anti-Evil Regals are sick of Woegina. Many viewers were squicked off OQ by the adultery and crypt sex. The pro-Charmings have it really bad with Snow cheering on adultery, and this new Eggnapping dreck. The Idiot Ball has been passed from character to character a lot this season. The Frozen arc had mixed reception from the viewers, and many feel that three new villains for 4B was overkill. The anti-CSers are clearly irritated by the CS scenes, while some find the new Hook blah. Most people seem to be confused or bored by the Author plot, and there seems to be a general consensus the quality of the writing has really gone down this half-season. If A&E want OUAT to last past S5, they need to regroup over the summer, and ask themselves what went so wrong. Edited April 3, 2015 by Rumsy4 5 Link to comment
FurryFury April 3, 2015 Share April 3, 2015 (edited) Yeah, they've actually done some damage control after the disastrous 2B (3A was pretty good at the start), so maybe they'll realize something's wrong. Although I wouldn't count on it. At least we have the declining ratings (unlike, say, Arrow, which seems to really suck this season as well, but the writers don't even notice it). Edited April 3, 2015 by FurryFury Link to comment
Zuleikha April 3, 2015 Share April 3, 2015 But if I read the ratings correctly, 3A lost more viewers than 3B. So assuming that's correct, I can see that confusing the issue for A&E. It confuses me, too, to be honest because I thought 3A was the strongest of the post-curse-breaking arcs (although if Cora-in-Storybrooke/Regina's backslide had been paced better that may have been my favorite). At this point, I think they need to just figure out a focused core story that they really want to tell and tell that in S5 (assuming there is one) with no regard for fandom or ratings. If that story is the final chapter of Princess Emma's fairytale, fine. If it's the final chapter of the Redemption of the Evil Queen, fine. If it's the Happy Ending for Snow White and Prince Charming or How Henry Became the Next Author or How Emma and Regina Embraced Swan Queen (hee! I'm totally trolling y'all with that one) or whatever, they just need to know. Because right now, I don't know what story they're telling. There are at least three different stories (Snow and Charming's crime against Maleficent, Regina's quest for hope, Rumple and the Temptation of Emma), and IMHO, they're fighting each other instead of strengthening each other. Regina's quest for hope was set up as the core story, but I think the writers' intention may actually be for it to be Rumple and the Temptation of Emma. I'm positive Snow and Charming's crime against Maleficent is not intended to be the core story, but between the amount of screen time it's gotten, the significance of it for Snow/Charming/Emma, and Kristin van Bauer just killing it as grief-stricking Maleficent, it's feeling (for me at least) on par with the others. 1 Link to comment
FormerMod-a1 April 3, 2015 Share April 3, 2015 Bring the conversation back to fandom, please. Link to comment
FurryFury April 4, 2015 Share April 4, 2015 But if I read the ratings correctly, 3A lost more viewers than 3B. Answering in the Ratings thread. Link to comment
Serena April 5, 2015 Share April 5, 2015 Check out Shatnet's Twitter if you want to be entertained by the latest SQ craziness. I don't like him, but man does he not take any shit from them. Also, according to him SQers latest plot is to sent hate, screen cap replies, delete their tweet and send Adam caps as proof they're bullied? LMAO. Those people are ingenious, they should be in charge of national security (if national security were about being obsessed with LP's boobs). 2 Link to comment
OnceUponAJen April 5, 2015 Share April 5, 2015 (edited) Well, Shatner has probably seen it all in terms of fandom! I saw those tweets this morning too. There's some good common sense advice from him. Edited April 5, 2015 by OnceUponAJen Link to comment
Zuleikha April 5, 2015 Share April 5, 2015 Oh my gosh... this isn't true, is it? (from the Shatner Twitter conversation and yes, I'm bored. *grin*) @WilliamShatner @ChaoslilKat Aye, the abuse & noose edits sent to Christie Laing by OutlawQueen shippers was vile. That is so beyond the pale I can't believe anyone would really do that! Also, I know SQ is not the favorite ship here, but they really do deal with a lot of homophobia. I've seen it just in the short time I started peeking at ship hash tags. Link to comment
YaddaYadda April 5, 2015 Share April 5, 2015 Also, I know SQ is not the favorite ship here, but they really do deal with a lot of homophobia. This is where I have a problem and I'm not lumping everyone in the same basket, but when you yourself are bullied about whatever, why do you turn around and do the same to someone else? This is what gets to me personally. Why would you ever choose to go after someone who has not done anything to you, doesn't know you from Adam. And I get there's a whole psychology behind that kind of behavior, but it bothers me to see all of this be perpetuated. It's a TV show, everyone needs to take an elephant sized chill pill. Everyone is free to ship who they wanna ship, just don't take it to this level of ugliness. 2 Link to comment
Crimson Belle April 5, 2015 Share April 5, 2015 I see much more evidence of that fandom using homophobia as a false label to bully those who don't like their ship for any reason than I see real homophobia. I'm certain it's out there, but it's shamefully and dishonestly used to label lots of folks who don't ship their ship. 9 Link to comment
Serena April 5, 2015 Share April 5, 2015 Oh my gosh... this isn't true, is it? (from the Shatner Twitter conversation and yes, I'm bored. *grin*) That is so beyond the pale I can't believe anyone would really do that! . Um, yes. Sean even had to intervene and tell them to knock it off. That took guts since OQers are like 95% of his fan base. And then Lana had to go and join the people wishing death on Marian, because when your costar is getting death threats that won't stoke the fire at all! Link to comment
Dani-Ellie April 5, 2015 Share April 5, 2015 I'm sure there is some homophobia directed at SQers, simply because people suck, but I also think it would help if some of the more militant SQers didn't call absolutely everyone who don't like SQ for reasons having nothing to do with the characters' sexualities and are instead based on the history between the two characters homophobic. 10 Link to comment
Souris April 5, 2015 Share April 5, 2015 I'm sure there is some homophobia directed at SQers, simply because people suck, but I also think it would help if some of the more militant SQers didn't call absolutely everyone who don't like SQ for reasons having nothing to do with the characters' sexualities and are instead based on the history between the two characters homophobic. Absolutely. If somebody on Twitter says they don't like SQ, they are immediately called homophobic. I've had it happen to me too many times to count, despite the fact that I've never said anything derogatory about same-sex couples (because I wouldn't), have called out homophobia and have made it more than abundantly clear that my problem with SQ is that I hate Regina and think Emma deserves a partner who supports her and isn't a selfish, whiny me-monkey. Is there homophobia in the Once fandom? Sadly, yes, because it's unfortunately part of society. But too many people in the SQ fandom use it simply as a way to try to shut up or discount people who don't like SQ. They're using a real social issue to bully others, and that's not any less wrong than anybody being bullied for being gay. Plus it undermines the actual societal problem when you apply the label to things than aren't homophobic. As for the person who sent threats to Christie, boy did she get deservedly lambasted by the rest of the OQ community. They did not put up with that shit. Sean spoke out forcefully, bless him. Unfortunately, Lana made a joke that supported Marian dying about that same time, which I did not think was cool at all. The blowback over that Christie incident contrasts to the fact that a lot of SQers came to the defense of the girl who last week threatened to stab Sean at a convention she was going to. Sean's convention rep found out about it and had her banned from the convention, and naturally had some choice words for her and her supporters. He probably shouldn't have interacted with the SQ Bad Apples to the extent that he did, but when it's about the life and safety of a person that you're actually friends with, I can understand the desire to fight back. That set off the latest fandom brouhaha, and it's escalated since then. The Shatner stuff last night was all kinds of crazy. I generally don't agree with a lot of his posts, but he made some very good points about bullying in fandoms. God knows he's seen all kinds of fandom insanity over the years. 10 Link to comment
RadioGirl27 April 5, 2015 Share April 5, 2015 The SQ shippers attacked Sean because he did a campaing in favour of same-sex marriage. I think this says a lot about them and their way of thinking. They use homophobia as a weapon against the people who doesn't like their ship, but the biggest part of the SQ shipper don't really care about the real issue of homophobia. They just want their crackship. 3 Link to comment
Serena April 5, 2015 Share April 5, 2015 Gosh, I remember that. He posted one of those #noh8 photoshoots pics and they got offended, somehow. Or is it something different? Link to comment
RedKeep April 5, 2015 Share April 5, 2015 (edited) As for the person who sent threats to Christie, boy did she get deservedly lambasted by the rest of the OQ community. They did not put up with that shit. That was my impression too. Granted, on Twitter I'm not dabbling in fandom all that much, but from what I have seen the OQ community did what the SQ community flat out refuses to do: They called the fans who couldn't seperate Christie from the character she plays (and the role said character played in creating a roadblock for the canon OQ pairing, thanks to eyeroll worthy writing) out on their crap and asked them to knock it off. The vocal parts of the SQ community on Twitter on the other hand are very busy figuring out how to present themselves as misunderstood and mistreated. After not few of them have been very creative in finding new ways to target and harrass a member of this show's cast because the character he plays is, in their perception, standing in the way of their ship. I can't take anyone serious who still thinks they have a right to play the victim and who continues to defend shipmates when they "joke" about violently attacking or murdering a real person, an actor, because he's a "threat" to their fanon ship. When William Shatner has to point out just how far gone you really are if you think you have some kind of basic right to act like a complete jerk on the internet, while addressing real people, because of a fictional ship, you've crossed more than a few lines and should probably take a step back and reconsider your priorities. But everyone who expects them to act like decent human beings is likely homophobic too. *fandomlogic* Edited April 5, 2015 by RedKeep 8 Link to comment
retrograde April 6, 2015 Share April 6, 2015 Shatner can be an arsehat, but he nailed it here: William Shatner @WilliamShatner.@ChaoslilKat I think when an imaginary ship becomes more important to defend than a real person's basic rights; there's a problem. (Of course, he was promptly attacked for calling ships "imaginary") 8 Link to comment
OnceUponAJen April 6, 2015 Share April 6, 2015 Shatner can be an arsehat, but he nailed it here: (Of course, he was promptly attacked for calling ships "imaginary") To which he responded that they're ALL imaginary. Bravo. 3 Link to comment
mjgchick April 6, 2015 Share April 6, 2015 I remember being blasted for calling a ship crack or fanon. I don't know what else to call them because the ship people are into aren't an actual couple on the show. I can't call Emma and Regina a ship or my beloved Elsa and Emma a ship because well they aren't. Is Regina and Emma even friends or is Emma someone Regina needs to be a punching bag? Link to comment
snarkastic April 6, 2015 Share April 6, 2015 I remember being blasted for calling a ship crack or fanon. I don't know what else to call them because the ship people are into aren't an actual couple on the show. I can't call Emma and Regina a ship or my beloved Elsa and Emma a ship because well they aren't. Is Regina and Emma even friends or is Emma someone Regina needs to be a punching bag? Of course you can call them ships? They are just non-canon ships. It's really that simple. Like, I can definitely understand when ppl get testy over their ship getting called crack-y. Grumpelstiltskin is a crack ship as it's meant to be funny. The other ships you mentioned are shipped as serious couples, not as a joke, which is what the crack part implies. 2 Link to comment
Rumsy4 April 6, 2015 Share April 6, 2015 (edited) I tend to agree, snarktastic. Of course, none of these definitions are set in stone, but calling SQ a non-canon ship or fanon ship, seems more appropriate than calling it a crack ship. Edited April 6, 2015 by Rumsy4 1 Link to comment
mjgchick April 6, 2015 Share April 6, 2015 I guess it's because some of the fanon ships I like I call them crack ships as well. I didn't even know that it was wrong to call a non canon ship a crack ship. You learn something new every day. 1 Link to comment
tennisgurl April 6, 2015 Share April 6, 2015 Oh, fandom. You confuse, yet amuse me on a daily basis. I get the ship obsession. TRUST ME I get it. I am an adult person, and generally productive member of society, who spends an embarrassing amount of time fretting about the love lives of fictional characters. Some of whom were not together in cannon, and I knew never would be. That does not mean that I get the right to be mean to real people, who did nothing to deserve it, because my non cannon ship isn't sailing! This is not going to help your cause! Link to comment
Serena April 6, 2015 Share April 6, 2015 Does anyone know why Colin tweeted happy birthday to an account that appears to be suspended? Weird. Link to comment
Souris April 6, 2015 Share April 6, 2015 This has to be one of the craziest things to me. My sister-in-law will not even discuss Once on Twitter or Tumblr any longer because of the remarks from SQ fans and private message hate. She has been called homophobic and various other names because she said she does not see Emma and Regina as a viable couple. She clearly says that because she does not support the dynamic of the idea of that relationship. She is not a fan of the character of Regina at all, but never has she wanted to see the actress be fired or even written off the show. The beauty of her getting these remarks from so-called fans is that my SIL is a lesbian and is even president of the LGBTQ group on her college campus. She's a theater major and just finished staging a play that has both same sex and opposite sex couples. It's totally crazy. There was one lesbian CS shipper on tumblr who was told by SQ fans that she wasn't gay enough because she doesn't ship SQ. I mean, WHAT? (Heck, I wonder if it was your SIL! It was in my very early tumblr days, and I can't remember her user name.) It's like the only way anybody cannot be homophobic to them is to ship SQ. They also gave Yvette Nicole Brown so much grief for saying something nice about CS that she stopped commenting on the show altogether. Link to comment
tennisgurl April 8, 2015 Share April 8, 2015 Yeah, I`m all for creating a dialogue between actors/creators and fans, but there are lines. Its fine to say you disagree with something, or to support your favorite character/ship, but being hateful towards other people and other fans is crossing a line. Link to comment
Serena April 13, 2015 Share April 13, 2015 You guys this is fab. So Natalie Abrams for EW tweeted something negative about the latest twist. I replied about how it was a pulled out of their ass twist in response to adultery. And Adam apparently stalked Natalie's replies! (he wasn't even tagged) and he replied to me! So of course, since I got his attention, I asked about when Emma is gonna find out about Graham. No reply yet (shocker). On the flipside, a couple of SQ shippers now think I'm on their side. 5 Link to comment
Souris April 13, 2015 Share April 13, 2015 And then he deleted his "Not true" reply to you! I saw his reply earlier, and now it's gone. Kind of odd. Man, I hate to be in concert with Natalie Abrams on something, but I have to agree with her there. FYI, that Magnus guy you're trying to have a reasonable conversation with is one of the most notorious SQ Bad Apples on Twitter, if not THE most notorious. He is militant and scary and says hateful things all the time. 2 Link to comment
Serena April 13, 2015 Share April 13, 2015 (edited) She/He's cracking me up. They went from "Hook's awful rapist, be concerned about rape culture" to "Regina's rape doesn't count because she used magic to do it" to "I'm not saying Rumple was justified in killin Milah, but 9 out of 10 judges would say he is and she WAS cheating on him so...". This is making me forget I have to leave for the dentist in 30 minutes, it's so entertaining. Did someone screencap Adam's reply to me? My 5 minutes of fame are just gone! *cries* Edited April 13, 2015 by Serena 1 Link to comment
Stuffy April 13, 2015 Share April 13, 2015 (edited) Good thing there's not magic in this world because to that guy it'd apparently be okay to rape and murder people. It's disturbing to view even a tv show that way. Edited April 13, 2015 by Stuffy 3 Link to comment
Mari April 13, 2015 Share April 13, 2015 She/He's cracking me up. They went wrong "Hook's awful rapist, be concerned about rape culture" to "Regina's rape doesn't count because she used magic to do it" to "I'm not saying Rumple was justified in killin Milah, but 9 out of 10 judges would say he is and she WAS cheating on him so...". I flipped through your timeline a little--and now feel slightly stalkery. Sorry? :/ Yikes. If he truly thinks those things? Scary. I mean, like you said--enjoy the character you enjoy, but you can't claim that Regina's not actually guilty of those things simply because she used magic. And the weird comments about husbands being allowed to kill their cheating wives? Yuck. And yeah, right. (At least in most countries.) How annoyed or desperate must Adam be if he's stalking the replies of comments on the OUAT thread--or at least, on the people he follows, if he follows her? Link to comment
Serena April 13, 2015 Share April 13, 2015 (edited) I think he must have been really anxious of what reception his "twist" would receive, and reading an EW writer say that must not have felt good. Edited April 13, 2015 by Serena Link to comment
OnceUponAJen April 13, 2015 Share April 13, 2015 I'm sure they must have someone checking out social media other than Twitter....including this forum. They'd be really smart to. I think this forum has been pretty accurate in seeing these twists coming. Link to comment
FurryFury April 13, 2015 Share April 13, 2015 (edited) I suspect they only check Twitter. I doubt many creators care about forums anymore. Some do have Tumblrs, though, and maybe also Facebook. Edited April 13, 2015 by FurryFury Link to comment
sharky April 13, 2015 Share April 13, 2015 I know Adam used to read the recaps on TWoP and probably stalked the boards a bit so who knows if they're here now. I like that Adam responds to people on Twitter and actually engages with fans but once again, he proves he doesn't always do it the right way. 1 Link to comment
Serena April 13, 2015 Share April 13, 2015 Exactly! And I know we always say that, but seriously of ALL the things I've tweeted at him about the show, the ONE time he replies is when I tweet a criticism (to someone else, even). Link to comment
Delphi April 13, 2015 Share April 13, 2015 (edited) Sometimes this fandom is pretty darn fantastic,http://rumplestiltskin.tumblr.com/post/116313651252/rumplestiltskin-some-of-you-might-know-that https://www.justgiving.com/giveitupforchristmas Edited April 13, 2015 by Delphi 5 Link to comment
legaleagle53 April 14, 2015 Share April 14, 2015 I flipped through your timeline a little--and now feel slightly stalkery. Sorry? :/ Hook, is that you? :) Link to comment
Mari April 14, 2015 Share April 14, 2015 Hook, is that you? :) :) Nope. I can't pull off all that leather, and wearing eyeliner just makes my eyes water like crazy. I do have a decent vocabulary, though. Link to comment
Serena April 15, 2015 Share April 15, 2015 William Shatner seems to be having a thing with SQers, again. Apparently he likes OQ and that just won't do? Link to comment
Stuffy April 15, 2015 Share April 15, 2015 I thought he always made fun of Robin and Sean. They should love that. Link to comment
Curio April 15, 2015 Share April 15, 2015 Amanda E @SinisterLiberal @WilliamShatner Harassing actors is shit. I agree. But labeling SQers as bullies because of a handful of obsessive trolls? Not cool either. Then why doesn't the fandom patrol these trolls? You just let them run wild harassing people in the name of SQ? kessily @kessily @WilliamShatner It does to a certain extent but what power do we have to do anything really? And honestly responding only feeds them. If you & others who are anti-bullying don't take control; everyone in SQ will be judged by the vocal bully minority Nicely said, Shatner. I'll give you a slow clap. 9 Link to comment
RedKeep April 15, 2015 Share April 15, 2015 I thought he always made fun of Robin and Sean. They should love that. He was joking around from what I understand. He does something similar with one of the guys from Supernatural, trolls him on Twitter like that. Apparently the Shat is quite into Lana Parrilla/Regina as far as OUAT is concerned and keeps saying he wants Robin out of the way because he ships himself with her, that kind of stuff. And Sean Maguire played along a few times and then made it clear to his followers too that it's all in good fun and no one has to defend him/Robin to Shatner because of it. Some of the SQ shippers apparently didn't get it though and had convinced themselves Shatner honest to God hates Maguire and everything he does, making him their 'ally'. Which means they now feel terribly betrayed by him when he calls them out on some of their behavior. One of the most amusing things I read today was some kind of conspiracy theory that either Horowitz&Kitsis/ABC or Maguire are now paying Shatner to make them look bad on Twitter. 5 Link to comment
sharky April 15, 2015 Share April 15, 2015 And the crazy thing is after Adam posted his script tease, which was SQ related, people are actually doing what Shatner told them to do and called them out on their SQ bullying. And instead of either leaving it alone or trying to calm things down, Adam just stoked the fire. Seriously, that guy needs to go to some social media classes. Here's the whole exchange. Link to comment
Shanna Marie April 15, 2015 Share April 15, 2015 I was just happy that someone called them out on the misplaced apostrophe. 5 Link to comment
Curio April 15, 2015 Share April 15, 2015 (edited) Adam Horowitz @AdamHorowitzLA@EvilRegalKaty maybe I should stop sharing these teases. People seem to get bent out of shape over things out of context. YES! PLEASE! THAT'S WHAT WE'VE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG, ADAM. Edited April 15, 2015 by Curio 10 Link to comment
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