S06.E04: Shrapnel

[bros402]

Quote

The team operates on a military reenactor whose attempt at authenticity has created an explosive predicament; Dr. Jordan Allen and Dr. Daniel Perez are on a race against time as they search for a severed foot.

Edited October 25, 2022 by bros402
don't want to merge my post

[bros402]

So, this episode was chock full o' limbs.

So, I don't know anything about medicine, but can a foot that has been soaking in a most likely incredibly dirty lake really be reattached without issue?

Glassman was 100% right - Shaun is withdrawing. That is most likely him feeling guilty but not knowing how to express/process it. Glassman even said this has happened twice in the past with Shaun, so it isn't anything new!

I bet Lim is going to say no to the surgery - or at least no if Shaun if involved... and since Shaun is Super Surgeon with Magic Autism Vision, he must be the only one able to perform it.

I was totally expecting Lim's Neighbor to be a med mal attorney who was going to ask Lim if she wanted to sue Shaun.

[Annber03]

Well, so much for me thinking the crazy journey to find that foot could make for an interesting bonding experience for Daniel and Jordan. That ending. Ouch. I felt for her with her, "What the hell?" expression. Guessing she's not going to let this go without an explanation. 

Luckily it seems Lim's doing much better in the "hitting it off with a guy" department, so yay for that :). I do like their interaction, so it'd be interesting to see where this goes. 

In regards to Shaun and Glassman, on the one hand, I very much sympathize with Shaun's need for privacy and space to focus properly. On the other hand, I think Glassman had some valid points about how he seems to be isolating himself more. I sense that's tied into his denial over what happened to Lim to some degree, too. Shaun may think he's figured out how to help Lim, but considering we're still fairly early on in the season....yeah, this story ain't over yet. 

[Leeds]

Really?  I'm all for a little suspension of disbelief, but the idea that a severed foot could be found in some huge lake, remain viable, and then be reattached all within a few hours is beyond ludicrous.

[Daff]

10 hours ago, Leeds said:

Really?  I'm all for a little suspension of disbelief, but the idea that a severed foot could be found in some huge lake, remain viable, and then be reattached all within a few hours is beyond ludicrous.

In cold water, severed, so no circulation happening, and Park had a definite window for viability (although I seriously question the risk for sepsis). The part that I found hard to accept was that the foot wasn’t nibbled beyond useable by the inhabitants of the lake while they searched for it. 

[greekmom]

I don't think Shaun has any issues with guilt regarding Lim.  I think that like with the shrapnel guy,  he wants to fix the issue so Lim has full use of her legs like shrapnel has full use of his arm. Glassman saying he's impartial yet he's not as he is agreeing with Lim. 

Count me in as someone who thought nice neighbour was a lawyer who would have suggested that Lim sues Shaun Murphy.

I've basically suspended my disbelief with the medical cases. Hence, sure they found the foot and reattached it. 

Park walking his booty call to the uber in his bare feet. Ewwww. 

I hope the reason that Daniel didn't kiss Jordan wasn't something stupid like he's an ex priest who got into medicine after working in an orphanage in the Congo which had sick children. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I was shocked the foot reattachment was successful.  With the risk of infection….I might have opted for a prosthetic instead.  
 

I actually was on Shaun’s side this time.  What professional in that setting would be required to share an office?  Even someone without Shaun’s condition would find it challenging.  Why was preferring his own space isolating?  

Maybe, they need to get an objective opinion about the surgery choice on Lim.  Perhaps, Glassman is biased.  I don’t handle medical malpractice cases, but it’s not just about something going wrong.  It’s whether the standard of care was appropriate.  My state requires another doctor to state in writing that the standard of care was violated, before filing a lawsuit.  Would other doctors in that community agree with Glassman? And testify to it in court?   Regardless, I found Gassman’s shouting at Shaun inappropriate and badgering.  Glad Shaun kicked him out.  
 

Im not sure what stopped that kiss. Perhaps, he doesn’t want to start a relationship with a co-worker. I get that.  I wonder if it’s something else.  I’m not sure if it’s proper for me to say on the boards.  I’m not dissing anyone, but it could be something about this person and their identity.  Didn’t this show have a transgender storyline once before?  Maybe, I’m wrong.   
 

[circumvent]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I was shocked the foot reattachment was successful.  With the risk of infection….I might have opted for a prosthetic instead.

You see, like everything in this show, disability=lesser, so they will do anything prevent anyone from becoming disabled, even if they are risking death,  because disabled people are not whole. Unless, of course, they need to keep someone disable for a while to inspire,  and to up the drama to 11,000, or if the disabled character is not whole, but is a genius and adorable at times. Then it is acceptable.

[thuganomics85]

Yeah, even by this show's standards, I'm going to guess that being able to reattach that foot was an incredible stretch.  Even if was still feasible after being that dirty lake for so long, there wasn't any kind of animals in there that were at least curious about what it tasted like?

Glassman is probably right that Shaun is isolating himself and pushing others away, but it honestly is feeling more and more like he actually is on Lim's side and not simply just "impartial", and maybe there is solid reason for it (I still really don't know), but I can see why this would lead to Shaun wanting to push back even more.  We really do need to have someone who isn't connected to what went down be the one to asses this and really get to bottom of what caused her paralyzation.  A third party would avoid falling into this mess of emotions, interpersonal relationships, and egos.  Although it is ironic that out of the three "bosses" right now, Andrews is probably the only one I could see being somewhat impartial.

Park is now in the "random hook-up" phase of his life, which includes unknowingly sleeping with married women.  Would feel bad for him if he wasn't the reason he and Reznick broke up for the filmiest reason ever (and despite Andrews talk, both of them are still not any better.  If I was one of their fellow doctors, I would so be over their snipping and immature behavior.)

Jordan and Daniel almost have a moment, but then Daniel pulls away at the last second.  Would be refreshing if it ends up being a simple reason like he isn't sure about dating a co-worker or isn't fully over a break-up, but you just know this show is probably going to take this somewhere wild.  Still hoping that he's secretly a serial killer!

Shaun now might have a way to help Lim, but I'm guessing she isn't going to be very receptive of it.

[rmontro]

18 hours ago, bros402 said:

I was totally expecting Lim's Neighbor to be a med mal attorney who was going to ask Lim if she wanted to sue Shaun.

I don't know what it is, but I get a bad vibe off of Lim's neighbor.  Like he's some sort of con man or thief.  Things seem to be going too smoothly with him.

I agree that Shaun might not be feeling guilty about Lim, it's just that it's come to his attention that his patient is unhappy with her current situation and is looking for a way to fix it.  

Edited October 25, 2022 by rmontro

[circumvent]

3 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Yeah, even by this show's standards, I'm going to guess that being able to reattach that foot was an incredible stretch.  Even if was still feasible after being that dirty lake for so long, there wasn't any kind of animals in there that were at least curious about what it tasted like?

Glassman is probably right that Shaun is isolating himself and pushing others away, but it honestly is feeling more and more like he actually is on Lim's side and not simply just "impartial", and maybe there is solid reason for it (I still really don't know), but I can see why this would lead to Shaun wanting to push back even more.  We really do need to have someone who isn't connected to what went down be the one to asses this and really get to bottom of what caused her paralyzation.  A third party would avoid falling into this mess of emotions, interpersonal relationships, and egos.  Although it is ironic that out of the three "bosses" right now, Andrews is probably the only one I could see being somewhat impartial.

This episode could be seen as a parody because it was so ridiculous. The actor who plays Park was overacting too. The foot prop was so not believable, it was like a cheap thing one buys for halloween decoration. Since it is close to Halloween, I will just take that as a prank on us. Ans since when can doctors, residents, just leave a hospital to be on "foot watch" not even knowing if the foot will be found? Also, mobilizing a whole search and rescue operation in a mater of a phone call? I cannot roll my eyes anymore, it hurts

I don't remember how Lim's surgery played out but Shaun is an attending that had to make a decision based on what was happening in real time and Glassman wasn't there. There is no story there. None. Move on.

Still don't care about the new veteran resident. not interested in her story, not interested on her and don't care about why she seems to be brooding the whole time

If the show bothered to have an autistic consultant - or a better one - they could stop coming up with these silly and preposterous plots and just have Shaun work his mind to solve the puzzles that appear during a case. Patterns, connections that only a neurodivergent brain can make, that would be far more interesting. Instead, we get this "serious" MASH copycat. MASH was  more realistic when it comes to the medicine portrayed.

[greekmom]

3 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Glassman is probably right that Shaun is isolating himself and pushing others away, but it honestly is feeling more and more like he actually is on Lim's side and not simply just "impartial", and maybe there is solid reason for it (I still really don't know), but I can see why this would lead to Shaun wanting to push back even more.  We really do need to have someone who isn't connected to what went down be the one to asses this and really get to bottom of what caused her paralyzation.  A third party would avoid falling into this mess of emotions, interpersonal relationships, and egos.  Although it is ironic that out of the three "bosses" right now, Andrews is probably the only one I could see being somewhat impartial.

Wasn't that the M&M or whatever they called it back in episode one review?  It absolved Shaun of any wrong doing and the hospital.  The problem is that Lim herself is a doctor and a surgeon and she is injecting her feelings about being paralyzed into the situation by getting people such as Glassman to admit that maybe what Shaun did was wrong (thank you to Andrews who knew that admitting as such could also put the hospital in jeopardy). 

You can't lawyer a lawyer, teach a teacher or cure a doctor without them questioning what you did, why you did it and suggesting that you could have been wrong to your approach. 

[PurpleTentacle]

Yet again this show is trying to tell us that Shaun is being unreasonable, for not letting everybody walk all over him.

I say good for him, for standing up for himself, against Glassman and his unreasonable accusations. Shaun saved Lim's life. I don't see how his operation would have caused her paralysis. If they wanted me to believe that, they should have explained it better. Seems like Glassman is more pissed that Shaun isn't his obedient little lapdog anymore and made decisions for himself.

Also if Shaun gets distracted by another doctor being in the same office as him, the seperate office is a good solution. He has a disability for christ's sake. Some things can't be overcome with just gritting your teeth and pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. Would Glassman berate Lim for not using the stairs anymore? I think not.

[rmontro]

39 minutes ago, circumvent said:

This episode could be seen as a parody because it was so ridiculous. The actor who plays Park was overacting too. The foot prop was so not believable, it was like a cheap thing one buys for halloween decoration.

I thought it looked pretty fake also.  Of course, I don't see many detached feet, so who's to say?  I've seen a few on news clips (terrorists, parts washing up on the beach), and they look pretty surreal.

11 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

I say good for him, for standing up for himself, against Glassman and his unreasonable accusations. Shaun saved Lim's life. I don't see how his operation would have caused her paralysis.

You'd think Lim might direct her anger at the guy who stabbed her instead.  If she doesn't think Murphy is a capable doctor, be mad at Glassman for letting him operate on her at all.

[SunnyBeBe]

Yeah, I have zero sympathy for the attacker.  Was Liam on duty or technically off?  She might be entitled to Workman’s comp money depending.  Fault is not relevant with that.  
 

When the neighbor said he was into finance, investments, or whatever it was, I though of a financial scam.  I hope they don’t allow Lim to fall prey to this guy and lose all her assets.  Ugh….

[possibilities]

I sure hope the guy Lim's seeing is not some "prey on the crippled girl" scammer. I took it at face value that he just likes her. Of course, this show is full of shit, so maybe they're setting her up for humiliation, but it honestly hadn't occurred to me that there was anything weird about the situation. I actually took it as representation that disabled people don't have to be portrayed as pathetic and undesireable. Maybe, give the way this show usually treats us, that was naive on my part.

The M&M (morbidity and mortality) meeting said Shaun was not at fault for Lim's paralysis. Furthermore, he has a great track record of magically saving the day, so when he says the situation changed and he saved her life, I really think the show should stick with that. Glassman has a long history of infantilizing Shaun and trying to browbeat him when he's not sufficiently grovelly and self-hating, and his ego was bruised by SHaun solving a problem he himself couldn't think of how to solve.

I hate that they are planning to un-paralyze Lim instead of actually dipping a toe into the story of someone actually becoming disabled and dealing with it and having a happy life once she gets past her initial shock over the situation. I agree she should be directing her anger at the guy who stabbed her, and acknowledging that the team was under extreme duress trying to save lives during the lockdown, and be relieved they saved hers after she nearly bled out in the hall.

Park is an asshole, but he was right about Shaun messing with his stuff and not consulting with him so they could solve the problem together. Also, the budget cuts making not enough offices available is strange. Did the hospital suddenly have fewer rooms or more attendings when the budget was cut? I doubt it. Shaun being willing to take a shitty office in a supply closet to me shows compromise and humility. Good for him.

The stuff between Jordan and New Guy bores me. I sure hope they are planning to do something interesting with it, but so far it's nauseating me because it's so stupid.

The severed foot was ridiculous.

Why is the ex-military intern so pissed off and defensive? I didn't think Asher even knew she was an amputee, for one thing. But also, why is it so strange to wonder about why someone joined the military? It's like any other career change. Didn't anyone ask Park why he changed from cop to doctor? I was very disappointed that Asher pivoted to say he was being judgy and leaning into his "sheltered" childhood. I didn't see that in his questions. 

Morgan needs to stop trying to tell the surgeons what to do and Park needs to stop being an asshole. The two of them are acting so unprofessional, it's as bad as the Jordan-New Guy thing. STOP IT, SHOW!

[KaveDweller]

10 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I actually was on Shaun’s side this time.  What professional in that setting would be required to share an office?  Even someone without Shaun’s condition would find it challenging.  Why was preferring his own space isolating?  

In most professions, sharing an office or even having an open space floor plan is very common. Shaun and Park have a HUGE office and don't even spend most of their time there. Or when they do, it is not necessarily at the same time. It may be a little annoying, but he is pretty lucky compared to most jobs.

Plus, Shaun never had an office as a resident, so why is it suddenly a problem?

Quote

Why is the ex-military intern so pissed off and defensive? I didn't think Asher even knew she was an amputee, for one thing. But also, why is it so strange to wonder about why someone joined the military? It's like any other career change. Didn't anyone ask Park why he changed from cop to doctor? I was very disappointed that Asher pivoted to say he was being judgy and leaning into his "sheltered" childhood. I didn't see that in his questions. 

I agree it wasn't necessarily judgy to ask once, buy it was pretty clear that she didn't want to talk about it because she kept avoiding his question. So I thought it was kind of rude that he kept asking after that, but I not necessarily in a judgmental way. I also thought if she doesn't like to talk about her time in the military she shouldn't constantly bring it up.

And I agree he didn't seem to know she was an amputee, he looked surprised about that. Then when she was changing her shoes he was looking closely, I guess to see what leg it was?

Edited October 26, 2022 by KaveDweller

[possibilities]

I think her refusal to do the pig heart transplant makes her being in the military more curious-- but it's true that if she didn't want to talk about it, Asher probably should have dropped it.

[circumvent]

4 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I agree it wasn't necessarily judgy to ask once, buy it was pretty clear that she didn't want to talk about it because she kept avoiding his question.

Which was another ridiculous plot and she was overreacting. The story is so simple: she had plans to be a great soccer player, colleges were lining up. Then she hurt herself and the colleges didn't want her anymore. She applied and was accepted by the Naval Academy - which is really hard - and the deal requires her to be on the reserve for a number of years. Her number was called, she went to war. End of story. It happens with some variations to a lot of people. The way she is acting, it is like she is trying to make the injury she had before college more traumatic than going to a war, killing people and losing a leg. It does not work for me, I am so tired of military stories to make every soldier a hero - even the shitty murderous ones.

[PurpleTentacle]

1 hour ago, circumvent said:

The way she is acting, it is like she is trying to make the injury she had before college more traumatic than going to a war, killing people and losing a leg. It does not work for me, I am so tired of military stories to make every soldier a hero - even the shitty murderous ones.

Doesn't work for me either. So she is a militant vegan, who won't even kill an animal to safe a human's life, but on the other hand, going to war and killing people was "the best decision she ever made in her life"?! Ah fuck off, show!

[Madding crowd]

I don’t understand why the military vet woman always looks pissed off. Does she think she doesn’t have to be an intern because of her background? She always looks mad if Shaun or Park have an opinion on anything. I still don’t understand Lim’s surgery or how she was paralyzed. I thought Shaun’s decision was on whether a lobe of her liver had to be removed or not; how could liver surgery cause paralysis? I have defended Glassman in the past but he was a jerk to call Shaun a child for wanting some privacy.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Madding crowd

[jabRI]

15 hours ago, possibilities said:

Why is the ex-military intern so pissed off and defensive? I didn't think Asher even knew she was an amputee, for one thing. But also, why is it so strange to wonder about why someone joined the military? It's like any other career change. Didn't anyone ask Park why he changed from cop to doctor? I was very disappointed that Asher pivoted to say he was being judgy and leaning into his "sheltered" childhood. I didn't see that in his questions. 

I thought he was out of line.  She clearly didn't want to go into it, and he should have backed off like yesterday.  You don't need to know everything about your co-worker right away.

And as for Shaun 'isolating' it was Glassman that blew him off for breakfast.

Edited October 26, 2022 by jabRI

[CatLady]

My anger with Glassman and Lim just continues to grow.

Yes Shaun was cleared of any wrongdoing in LIm's surgery.  It is well documented that surgeons are arrogant and very narrow-minded but this is ridiculous.  While it is no small thing that Lim is paralyzed, why is it inconceivable that she feel an ounce of gratitude that Murphy saved her life?  And yes, the person responsible for her condition is the man who tried to kill her.  This woman still has a life, career and probably plenty of money.  Yet she aims her bitterness at a doctor she knows is more than talented.  She was dying on the table.  Wake up and get some perspective woman.

Glassman while being a wonderful father figure to Shaun time and again also is like a petulant child at times.  He was like that with Debbie and after he ruined his marrige.  To me, Glassman's problem is not so much empathy for Lim in this case.  He is angry that Shaun "disobeyed" him even though circumstances in the surgery dictated, to Shaun, a different path.  If Lim's outcome was so important perhaps he may not have been so quick to run and save the criminal who caused all the trouble, while leaving Lim in someone else's hands.

Shaun is a pain at times.  That is the nature of his autism.  Despite being highly functional and savant-like in his career, he still cannot connect with others as a person without autism can.  Everyone who works with Shaun knows all this.  Why do they time and again expect him to behave as they do?  Some of them are not that great themselves.  I'm looking at you Morgan and Park.  What's your excuse?

[izabella]

11 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I still don’t understand Lim’s surgery or how she was paralyzed. I thought Shaun’s decision was on whether a lobe of her liver had to be removed or not; how could liver surgery cause paralysis?

I still don't understand this, either, and heard the same thing - it was about removing a lobe of her liver or this other surgical method that Shuan chose to do against Glassman's advice and instruction.  I don't know how that led to paralysis, and I wish they'd explain it.

[possibilities]

My guess is that it doesn't make any sense. I think they said the M&M was inconclusive as to the cause, but decided Shaun wasn't it. I mean, that's bulletproof plot contrivance! 

[KaveDweller]

12 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I don’t understand why the military vet woman always looks pissed off. Does she think she doesn’t have to be an intern because of her background? She always looks mad if Shaun or Park have an opinion on anything. I still don’t understand Lim’s surgery or how she was paralyzed. I thought Shaun’s decision was on whether a lobe of her liver had to be removed or not; how could liver surgery cause paralysis? I have defended Glassman in the past but he was a jerk to call Shaun a child for wanting some privacy.

Military woman does always seem pissed off. I am wondering if there is more backstory that we will get, or a plot about her becoming more friendly?

1 hour ago, izabella said:

I still don't understand this, either, and heard the same thing - it was about removing a lobe of her liver or this other surgical method that Shuan chose to do against Glassman's advice and instruction.  I don't know how that led to paralysis, and I wish they'd explain it.

The only thing I can think is if the thing Shaun did caused pressure on her back or something? And that's why it was risky? But I don't remember Glassman saying during surgery that he didn't like Shaun's plan because of a paralysis risk. They really should explain it if there is going to be a plot about Lim blaming Shaun.

[possibilities]

The funny thing is, IRL surgeons have a reputation for being extremely curt and unfriendly. I'm not saying it's true (I haven't had surgery since I was 4 years old so I have no direct experience), but that's the stereotype.

The surgeons on this show have all day to hang around and chat with patients, they're warm and friendly and go totally against stereotype.

So constantly impatient and pissed off and unfriendly intern (I have no idea what her actual character name is) comes off seeming rude and anomalous, but in general that's how surgeons are stereotypically reputed to be.

[izabella]

My experience is limited to surgeons who have helped my family members.  The ones I've met were all genuinely kind and friendly, but none of them had time to just chit chat all day.  

1 hour ago, KaveDweller said:

The only thing I can think is if the thing Shaun did caused pressure on her back or something? And that's why it was risky? But I don't remember Glassman saying during surgery that he didn't like Shaun's plan because of a paralysis risk. They really should explain it if there is going to be a plot about Lim blaming Shaun.

Maybe we are supposed to assume that paralysis was one of the risks of that surgery, which is why Glassman was opposed to it? 

It's interesting that Shaun's view is Lim and everyone should just be glad he saved Lim's life without questioning his decision.  He seemed surprised that Lim could be upset about how things turned out for her.   Can Shaun imagine himself in Lim's shoes? 

[bros402]

Is it just me or does Military Intern looks like she could play a cousin of Lauren Cohan?

[circumvent]

5 hours ago, possibilities said:

The funny thing is, IRL surgeons have a reputation for being extremely curt and unfriendly. I'm not saying it's true (I haven't had surgery since I was 4 years old so I have no direct experience), but that's the stereotype.

The surgeons on this show have all day to hang around and chat with patients, they're warm and friendly and go totally against stereotype.

So constantly impatient and pissed off and unfriendly intern (I have no idea what her actual character name is) comes off seeming rude and anomalous, but in general that's how surgeons are stereotypically reputed to be.

I had surgery not too long ago, and I also care for someone who had surgeries and all the surgeons were extremely polite and friendly, but I am pretty sure tis is part of a policy that the hospitals and medical groups impose, so they can send us the surveys where they grade their doctors. But they were very nice, including the post surgery. Any follow up after that (I needed follow ups for 5 years because my surgery was to remove a tumor) I didn't see the doctor, but only the assistant - which I don't mind, I would only have to see him if there were any complications, so it was a relief that I didn't have to

But absolutely no time to stick around and chat. In the U.S. there is a huge shortage of doctors of all kinds so they move fast and don't engage in small talk of any kind. It is only the absolutely necessary, and the automatic assurances and pleasantries. 

4 hours ago, izabella said:

It's interesting that Shaun's view is Lim and everyone should just be glad he saved Lim's life without questioning his decision.  He seemed surprised that Lim could be upset about how things turned out for her.   Can Shaun imagine himself in Lim's shoes? 

I think the writers would have done a better job if they had explored the trope that autistic people don't feel empathy by having Shaun really messing up the surgery and caused the paralysis but the way they wrote this plot and continue to go with it is terrible because ultimately Shaun was right and people should be glad he saved Lim's life. 

Think of it: instead of using the show's platform to debunk the myth that autistic people cannot be empaths, they decide to go with the trope that being paralyzed, being disabled, is worth than living. It is all shock full of ableism.

[Avabelle]

Why the fuck does Shaun have to take responsibility for Lim being paralysed. He saved her life. I find her anger valid but it’s aimed at the wrong person and Glassman backing her is preposterous. 

My dislike of new intern continues. She comes off so passive aggressive and there’s a serious air of entitlement in how she speaks to people. 

Hate that Morgan has been reduced to Just getting regular insults from Park. I get that she also insults him but he always seems to get the last laugh and usually someone else will back him up or be sneering at her separately. I wish they’d integrate her with the others a bit more. They make the effort integrating all other cast members. They’re attempts at trying to make out like she’s always the one in the wrong just lead me to believe the others are all judgy assholes.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Avabelle

[possibilities]

Ever since they got rid of Claire and Melendez, the characters have become less and less kind or likable. I know Claire left because the actress wanted out, but they didn't have to replace her with increasingly sour and obnoxious people.

Edited October 28, 2022 by possibilities

[Avabelle]

I didn’t really like Claire either as I found her just as sanctimonious as Park or Lim not to mention every storyline she had was either poor Claire or else Claire the Angel who understands and feels patients emotions more than anyone else Eva…

But I agree each character arriving is worst than the last. The only characters I like at this point are Andrews, Morgan and Leah by default as everyone else is insufferable. I never thought I’d like Leah but here we are.

Edited October 28, 2022 by Avabelle

[SunnyBeBe]

I still find Leah annoying.  Her character has sort of morphed into a dutiful wife for Shaun. That’s ok, but not what she used to be.  Maybe, it’s just character development.  

[Avabelle]

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I still find Leah annoying.  Her character has sort of morphed into a dutiful wife for Shaun. That’s ok, but not what she used to be.  Maybe, it’s just character development.  

True but I appreciate she shot down Glassmans ridiculous claim that Shaun should be feeling Guilty for Lims paralysis.

[Virtual]

When Shaun wanted half of the storage room for his office, Andrews was describing it as the worst possible situation you could have for an office, AND that he would be kicked out if someone happened to need the room, yet Shaun was all “That’s perfect, I don’t need all the distractions that come with sharing a space.” Couldn’t help but laugh at that.

Given Shaun’s track record, I don’t doubt that he has a good solution for Lim. Only thing is, I fear he might be due for a string of negative outcomes after having mostly positive ones for 5 seasons.

[bros402]

8 hours ago, Virtual said:

When Shaun wanted half of the storage room for his office, Andrews was describing it as the worst possible situation you could have for an office, AND that he would be kicked out if someone happened to need the room, yet Shaun was all “That’s perfect, I don’t need all the distractions that come with sharing a space.” Couldn’t help but laugh at that.

Given Shaun’s track record, I don’t doubt that he has a good solution for Lim. Only thing is, I fear he might be due for a string of negative outcomes after having mostly positive ones for 5 seasons.

tbh I am surprised that they didn't just get a cubicle barrier for Shaun and Park to split the office in half

then Shaun wouldn't be distracted by Park's things on his side of the office - or the window that he took offense to (he'd have to look at people or something?)

Edited October 29, 2022 by bros402

[circumvent]

The whole story with Shaun and Park sharing an office is silly because there is not shortage of space in hospitals for offices - specially that fancy hospital that caters to rich people. But maybe it ti the explanation we are all looking for, regarding the chronic lack of other doctors to operate, etc. Maybe they are all in their offices, taking up all the space while a couple of residents residents do all the work supervised by two or three super surgeons

[possibilities]

Andrews said they had to share because budget cuts caused a shortage of offices. I laughed when  he said it, because I don't think the hospital suddenly had fewer rooms or more attendings when the budget got cut.

[WinJet0819]

On 10/25/2022 at 6:01 PM, circumvent said:

I don't remember how Lim's surgery played out but Shaun is an attending that had to make a decision based on what was happening in real time and Glassman wasn't there. There is no story there. None. Move on.

Actually no. At that point and time, Shaun was still a resident. Going by the time frame of when Lim returned for the second episode, it had been about 3 and half months. So Shaun was supposed to obey what Glassman told him. But lucky for Shaun, the "parameters changed", so he did the surgery he wanted to do. And maybe someone in the hospital field can confirm, but I think there are some actual repercussions should a resident go against an attending's surgical plan without consulting them. He should have had someone get Glassman. Yeah, we can say he saved her life, but he also possibly changed it. And this partly goes back to the theme of the previous episode where he always thinks his way right and everyone else is wrong.

And Shaun shouldn't let them walk all over him. But at the same time, he does need to accept some accountability. Constantly saying he saved her life and he was right doesn't change the fact that he changed the surgical plan without approval. Just because he's gifted doesn't make him infallible. It's almost like he has a God-complex. And let's not forget, he did save Lim's life, but he also almost caused her to lose her life because of his tantrum in the OR. All his tantrums always seem to be brushed aside on the show because he eventually made the right call or was proven right.

On 10/25/2022 at 8:00 PM, possibilities said:

The M&M (morbidity and mortality) meeting said Shaun was not at fault for Lim's paralysis. Furthermore, he has a great track record of magically saving the day, so when he says the situation changed and he saved her life, I really think the show should stick with that. Glassman has a long history of infantilizing Shaun and trying to browbeat him when he's not sufficiently grovelly and self-hating, and his ego was bruised by SHaun solving a problem he himself couldn't think of how to solve. 

I believe the M&M came back as inconclusive. 

On 10/25/2022 at 8:00 PM, possibilities said:

Morgan needs to stop trying to tell the surgeons what to do and Park needs to stop being an asshole. The two of them are acting so unprofessional, it's as bad as the Jordan-New Guy thing. STOP IT, SHOW!

Definitely this. Morgan IS NOT A SURGEON anymore. And yet, the writers do not seem to know what to do with her character. And as it is, it stretches the bounds of reality to see her consult on cases with actual surgeons and tell them what to do when she's not the one actually doing surgery. What actually is her role? And the constant banter with Park is just plain irritating. You're working on an injured guy in the ER, and taking jabs at each other. You're broken up. We get it. We don't need all this banter to try to force them back together. Have them move on.

And I, too, am getting tired of the Jordan-Daniel relationship push. This is his THIRD episode, and they're already trying to push him into a relationship with his boss, coming close to a kiss. Ugh. It's so tired as we've seen this ad nauseam on Grey's. I'd like to see his character develop a bit more and actually prove his worth as a doctor first, instead of seemingly only existing to be a love interest for Jordan. 

Edited October 29, 2022 by WinJet0819

[circumvent]

2 hours ago, WinJet0819 said:

Actually no. At that point and time, Shaun was still a resident. Going by the time frame of when Lim returned for the second episode, it had been about 3 and half months. So while Shaun was supposed to obey what Glassman told him. But lucky for Shaun, the "parameters changed", so he did the surgery he wanted to do. And maybe someone in hospital field can confirm, but I think there are some actual repercussions should a resident go against an attending's surgical plan without consulting them. He should have had someone get Glassman. Yeah, we can say he saved her life, but he also possibly changed it. And this partly goes back to the theme of the previous episode where he always thinks his way right and everyone else is wrong.

This only shows once more how the writers don't know what they are doing. The fact that a resident was left alone in a very serious situation is absurd. In any case, I guess that, ethically, Glassman would be in the hot seat too because he would be ultimately responsible for the mistakes of a resident under his supervision. They could fire a resident in Shaun's position, i guess, but the attending would not be off the hook for not being there. What Glassman did was exactly the same situation: he had to make a decision to leave the OR according to what was happening at that moment, when the right thing to do was to say that he had a patient and could not leave*. If he trusted Shaun, then he is responsible for what Shaun did as well. I don't remember why Glassman had to leave the OR (why specifically him, at that specific time) but wasn't Andrews part of the whole mess too? Where was he? It is annoying how the same situation in a less dramatic episode, would lead them to stop the surgery, stabilize the patient and them reassess the situation.

The *just imagine yourself having a surgery and the attending surgeon is called to another OR and leaves a resident that does not follow orders. If this information was related to me (and I do ask for all the records from any surgery I have, including notes from the OR) I would raise hell because having surgery is a big deal and the person I trusted was the attending, not a resident, although I am fine having supervised residents assisting

[KaveDweller]

3 hours ago, circumvent said:

This only shows once more how the writers don't know what they are doing. The fact that a resident was left alone in a very serious situation is absurd. In any case, I guess that, ethically, Glassman would be in the hot seat too because he would be ultimately responsible for the mistakes of a resident under his supervision. They could fire a resident in Shaun's position, i guess, but the attending would not be off the hook for not being there. What Glassman did was exactly the same situation: he had to make a decision to leave the OR according to what was happening at that moment, when the right thing to do was to say that he had a patient and could not leave*. If he trusted Shaun, then he is responsible for what Shaun did as well. I don't remember why Glassman had to leave the OR (why specifically him, at that specific time) but wasn't Andrews part of the whole mess too? Where was he? It is annoying how the same situation in a less dramatic episode, would lead them to stop the surgery, stabilize the patient and them reassess the situation.

The *just imagine yourself having a surgery and the attending surgeon is called to another OR and leaves a resident that does not follow orders. If this information was related to me (and I do ask for all the records from any surgery I have, including notes from the OR) I would raise hell because having surgery is a big deal and the person I trusted was the attending, not a resident, although I am fine having supervised residents assisting

One factor is the surgery wasn't under normal circumstances. The hospital was under lockdown because there was an active shooter roaming around. Leah was acting as the scrub nurse because they didn't have anyone else available. I think there weren't enough attendings either, that is why Glassman had to leave.

Yeah, someone should have gone to get him, but if I am remembering correctly, the other surgery was pretty rough as well. He probably couldn't have left.

[circumvent]

38 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

One factor is the surgery wasn't under normal circumstances. The hospital was under lockdown because there was an active shooter roaming around. Leah was acting as the scrub nurse because they didn't have anyone else available. I think there weren't enough attendings either, that is why Glassman had to leave.

Yeah, someone should have gone to get him, but if I am remembering correctly, the other surgery was pretty rough as well. He probably couldn't have left.

Those situations are only TV situations. My point is, the attending is responsible for the resident, whatever happens. Leah as a scrub nurse is a lawsuit in the works too. They violated all protocols and even though Shaun was arrogant and too self confident, he is not the only one who should fall. If they broke all protocols and it was accepted as "oh, well, it was rough but we managed to perform two surgeries under extreme circumstances and that tech girl  was great in the OR" then they have to accept whatever outcome and tell Lim to be gratefuk she is alive and that the hospital will not be shut down for violations. Again, overdramatic TV to double down on something that does not happen. And Lim anger at Shaun is not only misplaced, it is short sighted. She wants to vent, be angry at everyone who was there jumping between ORs and whoever is in charge - Andrews? 

[dogdays2]

As someone who attended the Naval Academy, a few things to make clear. It is a D1 school for athletics — and the women’s soccer is in the Patriot league and is quite good. Graduates must serve on active duty, not as reservists, for at least 5 years.  The only likely way she’d be in Afghanistan is if she were a Marine Corps officer. Navy officers are rarely on the ground (other than SEALS and as yet no women are SEALS).  She would not have been a Navy medic (corpsman) - all medics are enlisted.  You can attend med school directly from USNA, but then she wouldn’t have been in Afghanistan within 9 months of graduation   In fact, given the required schools for all USNA graduates, it’s highly unlikely she’d be anywhere other than a school in 9 months.  While USMC officers know basic first aid, corpsmen, not officers, are responsible for treating wounded in the field.  

Women officers have been wounded and even killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Her sentiments and even attitude ring true (trust me on this). However, her backstory doesn’t make sense. 

Edited October 30, 2022 by dogdays2

[bros402]

14 hours ago, WinJet0819 said:

Definitely this. Morgan IS NOT A SURGEON anymore. And yet, the writers do not seem to know what to do with her character. And as it is, it stretches the bounds of reality to see her consult on cases with actual surgeons and tell them what to do when she's not the one actually doing surgery. What actually is her role? And the constant banter with Park is just plain irritating. You're working on an injured guy in the ER, and taking jabs at each other. You're broken up. We get it. We don't need all this banter to try to force them back together. Have them move on.

And I, too, am getting tired of the Jordan-Daniel relationship push. This is his THIRD episode, and they're already trying to push him into a relationship with his boss, coming close to a kiss. Ugh. It's so tired as we've seen this ad nauseam on Grey's. I'd like to see his character develop a bit more and actually prove his worth as a doctor first, instead of seemingly only existing to be a love interest for Jordan. 

Yeah, it'd be best if they did something like "morgan becomes a diagnostician" or something to make her actually try to fit into the story

[circumvent]

8 hours ago, dogdays2 said:

As someone who attended the Naval Academy, a few things to make clear. It is a D1 school for athletics — and the women’s soccer is in the Patriot league and is quite good. Graduates must serve on active duty, not as reservists, for at least 5 years.  The only likely way she’d be in Afghanistan is if she were a Marine Corps officer. Navy officers are rarely on the ground (other than SEALS and as yet no women are SEALS).  She would not have been a Navy medic (corpsman) - all medics are enlisted.  You can attend med school directly from USNA, but then she wouldn’t have been in Afghanistan within 9 months of graduation   In fact, given the required schools for all USNA graduates, it’s highly unlikely she’d be anywhere other than a school in 9 months.  While USMC officers know basic first aid, corpsmen, not officers, are responsible for treating wounded in the field.  

Women officers have been wounded and even killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Her sentiments and even attitude ring true (trust me on this). However, her backstory doesn’t make sense. 

That's interesting. A few years ago, someone is like my niece but not by blood, applied to the Naval Academy and they told her that after finishing she would be a reservist for at least 4 years. So maybe she was lied to, or things changed a bit - we know that the U. S. is resistant to send troops to the many aggressions we are engaged in, and we also know enlistment is down (or was for sure at that time) so I think it is possible that they changed their attitude to attract more people? 

As for the character's attitude, maybe it is true but it is also annoying and she is not acting like a resident that is learning, but as someone make her own decisions due to arrogance and overconfidence - or maybe acting on PTSD, which is the last thing I want to see in yet another show

[SunnyBeBe]

The way the story was told about saving Lim is rather convoluted, but in most states there are laws that protect good samaritans who provide aid to the injured in emergency situations.  Called Good Samaritan laws.  Was Leah doing that or working as professional of the hospital?  Complicated legally for sure.

  I’m wondering if the hospital was liable for the injuries due to them not having adequate security to prevent the intruder from gaining access to the victims AND was Lim negligent in not adding additional security since she KNEW of the violence and did nothing to protect the hospital.  TODAY, any person who works as a supervisor, manager or person in charge of others knows or should know that the spouse/partner of a domestic violence victim can target the workplace at any time, especially after a breakup.  

[tennisgurl]

Every scene between Asher and the vet doctor was so weird. Why didn't he just read the room and drop it when it became clear she didn't want to share her backstory for whatever reason? Why didn't she just say "I got offered a scholarship to the academy" when he first asked, why was she acting like it was some secret? Neither of them were being professional or were even just acting like normal co-workers, it was such an odd subplot. 

Limbs flying off left and right!

[Daff]

On 10/29/2022 at 4:19 PM, KaveDweller said:

One factor is the surgery wasn't under normal circumstances. The hospital was under lockdown because there was an active shooter roaming around. Leah was acting as the scrub nurse because they didn't have anyone else available. I think there weren't enough attendings either, that is why Glassman had to leave.

Yeah, someone should have gone to get him, but if I am remembering correctly, the other surgery was pretty rough as well. He probably couldn't have left.

Thank you. I pointed this out upthread. Not a normal situation, emergency lock down, imminent threat of physical harm, with simultaneous life threatening injuries to be treated. Unless you are a first responder, situations like this are not routinely practiced. They’ve moved on, and at this point, these arguments are moot.