S01.E08: Half Baked

[maraleia]

 

After learning of Elizabeth's affair, Carter and Taylor urge her to come clean.

 

[grandemocha]

Oh American children. Hah, if I spoke to my mother the way Grant talked to Elizabeth, I would've been slapped upside the head & more...affair or no affair.

 

Carter is a hypocrite as usual. Who is she to tell Elizabeth how to behave..in any way? Definitely not condoning affairs or cheating, and shady Dad & Elizabeth definitely should divorce, but Carter pretty much has no right to tell anyone what to do ever, after all the shit she's pulled. I think I just hate smug teenagers.

I think it's going to irritate me alot if shady!dad isn't exposed for his bullshit about his secret book by the end of the season. None of these people have the moral high ground yet the teenagers, especially Carter, try to take it 90% of the time.

 

Crash disgusts me. He's such a loser yet I guess if I was still a teenage girl looking to rebel. he'd be the exact kind of dumbass I'd want to screw around with to piss off my parents. He gives me a hint of crazy too whenever he talks to Carter. Like he's one wrong statement from Carter away from snapping.

 

"Now I look like a loser to my children, to Carter" -- THIS is the problem with the dad. He doesn't give a fuck about being a good, honest person, he just wants to be seen as the "cool" dad, the badass to the kids. He wants to get one up on his wife. He's a grown man, but he has such a complex about not being a loser that it engulfs his entire being. Shit, I wouldn't want to be married to him either if I was Elizabeth. He's a man child. Nothing more. He's so "wahh wahh, life didn't turn out how I wanted. Pity me." 

 

He manipulated Carter into letting him write his book. Asshole. He's been writing the book all along. 

 

Has the actress who plays Taylor never been high?

 

Ending thought: They need to get Carter into some therapy..AND quick.

[ihavenoidea]

I think my favorite part was Max's reaction to the news of the affair.

 

No, Bird, Ofe, and very little Gabe.  Now if we could only get rid of Crash.

 

The dad drives me nuts, half the time I want to strangle Carter, but I still love the family scenes.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Yes, it was pretty hilarious that Carter decided to tell Elizabeth that she had to end the affair because it was wrong.  Carter is dating a drug dealer, she was allowing her friends to obstruct a police investigation, she was meeting up with Lori, a wanted criminal, in secret, etc. 

 

Gosh, David is not a very effective parent.  What the heck was he doing when the kids woke up late and had to rush to school?  It's not like he has a job, he could have been up early to make sure the kids were doing OK and were going to get to school on time.

 

I thought "high" Taylor was funny.  I laughed when she asked Max to lie down next to her and he told her no, so she replied, "Poo."  That was cute. 

[grandemocha]

Yeah. Why didn't David take Grant to school? Or buy milk? I keep waiting for the show to give me anything regarding him being an actual good father, husband, friend..or damn, even person, but he keeps being awful. 

I get why Elizabeth was upset, the girls promised him they'd pick him up, and they instead spent the day with their boyfriends and got high. It's not their job to parent him, but they needed to stick to their word. Elizabeth is probably always going to be a little bit paranoid regarding her children and unseen threats even though she's calmed down alot since Carter came home.

[bref]

This show is so bizarre. I feel like every episode is written by different people. There's the barest thread of continuity in the storyline, but the characterizations and dialogue vary wildly in tone from week to week. (Except Crash. He has not spoken a single word of believable dialogue.)

 

That said, I can't seem to stop watching. 

[Spencer Hastings]

What a manipulative douchebag. Seriously. He manipulated the entire situation so that he could get what he wanted--Carter's permission to write his book without looking like an underhanded slime ball. I'm glad at least one of his lies came out.

Carter had no right to tell Elizabeth how to behave. She didn't even like her until two weeks ago and spent the better part of her time being a brat to her. She has no business dictating what should and shouldn't happen in that family. Taylor just stood by and took it! Those are her parents that she knows and loves but Carter was more "upset".

I usually role my eyes at actors acting high but I think the actress who plays Taylor is lovable and sweet in just about any situation. Max is great with her, I like that he didn't want her getting high because she's so innocent.

I like Elizabeth a lot. She was lovely with the girls, even Taylor under the influence.

Grant still needs to be saved. I'm not a fan of him saying he hates his mom but if there's any kid who deserves some leeway, it's Grant. The replacement kid doesn't even get a baby book!

I didn't realize their last name was Wilson. I wonder if we can knock all of the presidential names out?

[Cranberry]

I love that Kathryn Prescott's fake British accent is completely different from her

.

 

Also, high Taylor is the best. David is still the worst. 

 

How can Elizabeth afford to take a leave of absence?

[GaT]

Ending thought: They need to get Carter into some therapy..AND quick.

Yes, why isn't she in therapy? Isn't the entire family in therapy? Or at least they were, what happened to it?

 

What was the point of David doing the fake meeting thing? I can't think of any reason for it. Carter is going to realize that he manipulated her into "letting" him write the book, & that he was going to write it anyway, & she is going to be pissed. I really hope this wasn't some plot Elizabeth & David came up with together, I thought Elizabeth moving out seemed strange.

[justcris]

I am so happy that Carter is finally realizing dear old dad is not the person she thinks he is. I did think the plot of Elisabeth moving out would last more than half an episode though.

 

I get the feeling that they're saving the big reveal of why Lori kidnapped Carter for the finale, but that just makes everyone seem dumb for not asking themselves that question from the get go.

 

Didn't miss Carter's friends, and Crash continues to bug, but I hope they keep Max forever.

[joanne3482]

What was the point of David doing the fake meeting thing? I can't think of any reason for it.

 

I think he did it so he could look good to Carter. HE is the reasonable one about the kidnapping whereas Elizabeth isn't. HE is willing to help Carter. Elizabeth just wants Lori put in jail. 

 

I loved Max so much in this episode. I love that he didn't want Taylor to feel pressured into trying pot and I LOVE that he was so respectful of Taylor he didn't even want to lay down with her because she was high. (and I guess he figured she'd want to have sex or he would and this way no temptation?) 

 

I keep waiting for the show to give me anything regarding him being an actual good father, husband, friend..or damn, even person, but he keeps being awful.

 

Which makes me question how did Elizabeth end up with him to begin with. Is he just a total sociopath and master manipulator and Elizabeth didn't see that in their early relationship or did the kidnapping affect him too, but in a different way? I don't understand it. 

[ihavenoidea]

 

Which makes me question how did Elizabeth end up with him to begin with. Is he just a total sociopath and master manipulator and Elizabeth didn't see that in their early relationship or did the kidnapping affect him too, but in a different way? I don't understand it.

Wasn't it implied that he knocked her up and they 'had' to get married?  Now why she stayed with him, who knows.  I think were supposed to see that the kidnapping affected how everyone in that family turned out.  Elizabeth went icy, David went douchebag, Taylor had to be perfect in her mind, and Grant is forgotten.

[gesundheit]

I get the feeling that they're saving the big reveal of why Lori kidnapped Carter for the finale, but that just makes everyone seem dumb for not asking themselves that question from the get go.

I'm not actually interested in why she kidnapped her (too scared it'll be some dumb sob story to elicit sympathy and/or will make David somehow partly culpable), but I'm very interested in why absolutely nobody gives a crap about finding and punishing her for it anymore.

 

Yes, why isn't she in therapy? Isn't the entire family in therapy? Or at least they were, what happened to it?

 

What was the point of David doing the fake meeting thing? I can't think of any reason for it. Carter is going to realize that he manipulated her into "letting" him write the book, & that he was going to write it anyway, & she is going to be pissed. I really hope this wasn't some plot Elizabeth & David came up with together, I thought Elizabeth moving out seemed strange.

 

I was wondering about the family therapy, too. It makes no sense for them not be getting help.

 

I, too, hope Elizabeth wasn't in on the plot. I think it might be a good sign that she was the truth-teller (and unknowingly so) later in the episode in regard to the Lori business, but I'm still not sure. I'd hate for Elizabeth to be involved if for no other reason than it gives Carter another chance to be unbearably self-righteous and judgmental. (Also nervous that her ease in taking what I assume is an unpaid leave from her job means she knows about the book money, but then again she never said it was unpaid. Maybe she had a lot of time saved up, or maybe the fact that her presumed-dead daughter who was kidnapped turned up and moved back in after 10 years entitles her to some paid time off?)

 

Max continues to be the MVP in every way.

Edited August 20, 2014 by gesundheit

[kat165]

I was waiting to find out that Elizabeth's leaving was cooked up by David & that was the thing he wanted her to do for him to "make up" for her affair. I kept waiting for it to be revealed that they both were in on it. I also thought Carter's reaction to finding out David lied about the meeting with Lori was way over the top. The dialogue & plotting on this show is really odd.

[Cranberry]

I thought that was implied -- David was totally ready to forgive Elizabeth until he learned that the kids knew about the affair, and then he freaked out about looking like a "loser" to his kids (he's such an image-obsessed jackass!), and the show went straight from Elizabeth's "I'll do anything" to him informing the kids that Elizabeth had moved out. I assumed that they intended all along to work on the marriage, but he needed her to move out first so he could save face. Ugh, he's awful.

[Kat]

 

 

This show is so bizarre. I feel like every episode is written by different people. There's the barest thread of continuity in the storyline, but the characterizations and dialogue vary wildly in tone from week to week. (Except Crash. He has not spoken a single word of believable dialogue.)

That said, I can't seem to stop watching.

Exactly! 100% agree. I only have so much good will I can give the writers before I really get annoyed.

 

Each week they find a new way for David to be a vain, insincere prick. But Denisof is killing it performance-wise.

And each week my love for Max and Taylor grows and grows!

[rubyred]

I don't understand where this show is going anymore. When it began to look like David was going to skate on the "Finding Carter" nonsense, I was like WTF? Another juicy potential plot point squandered? I guess there's more to reveal there but as I watch I either feel like I've missed a scene (Carter travels through wormholes to get from one place to another) or we've entered cloud cuckooland where the "stranger" twin suddenly has all the hand in the family. Someone mentioned it upthread, hey Carter, hypocritical much to lambast Elizabeth when your own behavior hasn't been that stellar. But then I realize -- the whole damn family has turned the power dynamic over to Carter. It's bizarre.

 

Something ain't right with Crash.

 

Max is love. I am curious to see Alex Saxon in other roles to see if this is just another version of the same character or if this is a unique characterization. And as if his treatment of Taylor wasn't enough, seeing him spritz his houseplants -- so adorable.

[Primetimer]

Finding Carter's parents don't parent, and it's driving Sarah bazoo.

Read the story

[joanne3482]

How can Elizabeth afford to take a leave of absence?

 

If she's anything like the police officers who work for the city in which I'm employed, she probably has a ton of comp and vacation time built up, even with only about 13 years under her belt. We have had police officers retire with more than a year of vacation on the books (that's 2,080 hours). And since most police officers are unionized, they're well taken care of. 

[calliope1975]

Max is love. I am curious to see Alex Saxon in other roles to see if this is just another version of the same character or if this is a unique characterization. And as if his treatment of Taylor wasn't enough, seeing him spritz his houseplants -- so adorable.

 

The only other show I've seen Alex Saxon in is The Fosters and I do find his character there (Wyatt) to be different from Max. Both are nice, stand-up guys, but I find Max to be a little more dim though not in a bad way. I definitely think I like Max more though.

[justcris]

The only other show I've seen Alex Saxon in is The Fosters and I do find his character there (Wyatt) to be different from Max. Both are nice, stand-up guys, but I find Max to be a little more dim though not in a bad way. I definitely think I like Max more though.

 

I agree that Max is a little more dim than Wyatt, but the characters are definitely alike. Both very loyal and lovable.

 

I liked seeing him in Ray Donovan, even though he had very limited screen time. The boy sure is pretty.

[twoenns]

Max, Max and more Max please!

I'd forgotten that he was on Ray Donovan. Looks like I'll be going back and rewatching those eps.

[GaT]

I may only be watching for glimpses of Max's hair at this point.

[In2You]

Max and Wyatt are basically the same character. They even dress the same

[dohe]

I don't think Carter is a hypocrite at all.  In fact, I have far more empathy for Carter than anyone else on this series.  Not a little bit more empathy.  Far, far more empathy. Because when it comes down to it what Carter is currently going through, from the moment she found out she was a taken from her real parents as a child, is as devastating as it gets.  Imagine police telling you that your Mom and/or Dad are not your real parents but criminals that stole you.  That the closest thing to an unbreakable bond that exists is based on a falsehood.  That your identity is not true.

 

The likelihood in real life is Carter's rage and pain would be far more extreme.  The possibility of fully rejecting her real parents would be strong.  The show has tempered this which is probably a wise decision.  But last night Carter was not a hypocrite.  She may act out and be self-destructive.  But if ever someone wanted people to be truthful to them and if ever a person would be shaken by duplicity it would be a person in Carter's position.  To be ripped away from the only Mom she knows and to be then placed in a situation where her real parents are engaging in duplicity would be enough to thoroughly shatter most people. 

 

As for Max and Taylor, they are cute but they seem sort of designed as easy to like.  It is a cute, by the numbers romance. 

[Kromm]

"Now I look like a loser to my children, to Carter" -- THIS is the problem with the dad. He doesn't give a fuck about being a good, honest person, he just wants to be seen as the "cool" dad, the badass to the kids. He wants to get one up on his wife. He's a grown man, but he has such a complex about not being a loser that it engulfs his entire being. Shit, I wouldn't want to be married to him either if I was Elizabeth. He's a man child. Nothing more. He's so "wahh wahh, life didn't turn out how I wanted. Pity me." 

 

He manipulated Carter into letting him write his book. Asshole. He's been writing the book all along. 

But that last bit is the key.  All of that "looking like a loser to my children" wasn't him expressing any kind of true thought about looking cool or badass to the kids.  He was lying to Elizabeth about that every bit as much as he was manipulating Carter later on.  He wasn't being a man child, he was being a straight up villain from moment #1.

[grandemocha]

 

All of that "looking like a loser to my children" wasn't him expressing any kind of true thought about looking cool or badass to the kids.

I get what you're saying, but he still does want to be seen as "cool" dad. Evidenced by the scene where he's a complete idiot and gets the girls a car they can't afford. Then Elizabeth has to go to her mother for the money. Elizabeth has to play "bad cop" at home because David is a sorry excuse for a father.

 

ETA: Unless every stupid action has been a part of a master plan all along to manipulate everyone in his family, twirly mustache style, lol.

 

 

Imagine police telling you that your Mom and/or Dad are not your real parents but criminals that stole you.

Carter is 16 going on 17. She's not a young child. I had empathy for her before she started acting like a hypocritical asshole. I completely lost sympathy for her after that cruel shit she pulled on Elizabeth in the mall food court. That was beyond harsh. I have sympathy for Elizabeth. Carter lived 13 years with a kidnapper who didn't hurt her, and pretty much let her do whatever she wanted.

 

Elizabeth lived for 13 years with uncertainty, constant torture and fear about what happened to her baby. Was her child murdered and raped by a pedophile? Was she being pimped out by a monster? She never got closure, never got an answer. THAT is far worse to me than what Carter endured for 13 years.

Edited August 21, 2014 by grandemocha

[Kromm]

I get what you're saying, but he still does want to be seen as "cool" dad. Evidenced by the scene where he's a complete idiot and gets the girls a car they can't afford. Then Elizabeth has to go to her mother for the money. Elizabeth has to play "bad cop" at home because David is a sorry excuse for a father.

 

Carter is 16 going on 17. She's not a young child. I had empathy for her before she started acting like a hypocritical asshole. I completely lost sympathy for her after that cruel shit she pulled on Elizabeth in the mall food court. That was beyond harsh. I have sympathy for Elizabeth. Carter lived 13 years with a kidnapper who didn't hurt her, and pretty much let her do whatever she wanted.

 

Elizabeth lived for 13 years with uncertainty, constant torture and fear about what happened to her baby. Was her child murdered and raped by a pedophile? Was she being pimped out by a monster? She never got closure, never got an answer. THAT is far worse to me than what Carter endured for 13 years.

Carter didn't endure ANYTHING for 13 years.  Isn't that the whole point?  Her point of trauma is current, not in the past.  Fake Mom and Kidnapper or not, Lori reaps all the benefits of being the good guy, until Carter is shown to be able to wrap her head around the idea that she lost a sister and a father, even if she got a mother in trade.  Of course the show has stepped all over that by making her father a raging asshole, who anyone would be glad to have not had to endure growing up. Good job show (only not)!

[grandemocha]

Uhmm..okay, I obviously shouldn't have used the word "endured" but yeah, that's what I meant. Carter was oblivious for 13 years, and even now with the truth out, she acts like a sanctimonious jerk 60% of the time. There's no scenes of therapy for her, she's probably going to end the season back with her precious Lori through some bullshit plot twist (since the show was renewed for Season 2) and I'll STILL feel bad for Elizabeth.

[Mabinogia]

I am hoping that part of Carter's explosion about the lies is because she's finally getting that her perfect, awesome, love you more, pinky swear BFF mom is the one who has lied to her every day for most of her life. Yes the lies in her bio-house are ever present, but this is a woman she loved and trusted who pretty much lied to her ever time she opened her mouth. If Carter is going to freak out about her mom lying about an affair and her dad lying about a meeting, then she sure as shit better hate her BFF-mom for lying about even being related.

[dohe]

I get what you're saying, but he still does want to be seen as "cool" dad. Evidenced by the scene where he's a complete idiot and gets the girls a car they can't afford. Then Elizabeth has to go to her mother for the money. Elizabeth has to play "bad cop" at home because David is a sorry excuse for a father.

 

ETA: Unless every stupid action has been a part of a master plan all along to manipulate everyone in his family, twirly mustache style, lol.

 

Carter is 16 going on 17. She's not a young child. I had empathy for her before she started acting like a hypocritical asshole. I completely lost sympathy for her after that cruel shit she pulled on Elizabeth in the mall food court. That was beyond harsh. I have sympathy for Elizabeth. Carter lived 13 years with a kidnapper who didn't hurt her, and pretty much let her do whatever she wanted.

 

Elizabeth lived for 13 years with uncertainty, constant torture and fear about what happened to her baby. Was her child murdered and raped by a pedophile? Was she being pimped out by a monster? She never got closure, never got an answer. THAT is far worse to me than what Carter endured for 13 years.

Did anyone say Elizabeth did not suffer?  It is not a competition.  It is possible for two people to suffer tremendously from the same event. 

 

There seems to be a belief that what Carter is going through is no big deal when it is among the most devastating things a person could suffer.  As if finding out at 16 that your parent who you deeply love is not a parent but a criminal who stole you is the equivalent of getting a C on a report card or having to mow the lawn.  This is the type of thing that scars a person permanently.  Yet for some reason, Carter still acting out after a few episodes of season 1 some how makes her a little monster.  There should be some perspective.  The show is already tempering Carter's response probably because they believe audiences are unable to fully appreciate how traumatic this would be. 

Edited August 21, 2014 by dohe

[Kromm]

Uhmm..okay, I obviously shouldn't have used the word "endured" but yeah, that's what I meant. Carter was oblivious for 13 years, and even now with the truth out, she acts like a sanctimonious jerk 60% of the time. There's no scenes of therapy for her, she's probably going to end the season back with her precious Lori through some bullshit plot twist (since the show was renewed for Season 2) and I'll STILL feel bad for Elizabeth.

Well, yeah. The show is close to criminal in how the treat (or don't even address) therapy.  We get the one bit with Family therapy. which we immediately see betrayed by King Jackass Dad, and presumably that's still going on, but does the show run with that and use it as a (fairly logical) ongoing framing device?  No. Instead they forget it exists.  Not to mention that even as criminally underfunded as most Child Protective Services divisions are, most wouldn't simply drop a kid back into a family she has zero memory of without mandatory one-on-one counseling as well--on an ongoing basis for the kid.  Especially if they kidnapper was still at large and the kid identified more with them (you can't even call it Stockholm Syndrome when the kid never had really dealt with the kidnapper as an antagonist at ALL in the first place).

 

As far as her winding up back with Lori, why would you assume that?  While the show has shot itself in the foot in terms of showing the biological parents as a unit as a great "choice", because Dad is a raging asshole liar, and Mom a cheater, they've moved a lot closer to showing Elizabeth as the sympathetic character, and Lori as a total lunatic.  I can imagine the show having some cliffhanger with Carter leaving with Lori, or dropping some kind of "Carter is really Lori's because she cheated with the Dad and Elizabeth adopted her" bullshit, but the damage is kind of done with Lori, because bugshit nuts sticks, even if there's some underlying logic cobbled together later for it--no matter how you slice it, even if Taylor, for example, is actually only a half-sister instead of a twin, then Lori still robbed Carter of that, and totally of a Dad (unless Dad was ALWAYS a raging asshole and not just currently, and they try to use that as some kind of excuse).  Is it possible they'll do this?  Sure.  Is it likely?  I'm not so sure it is.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Kromm

[gesundheit]

There seems to be a belief that what Carter is going through is no big deal when it is among the most devastating things a person could suffer.  As if finding out at 16 that your parent who you deeply love is not a parent but a criminal who stole you is the equivalent of getting a C on a report card or having to mow the lawn.  This is the type of thing that scars a person permanently.  Yet for some reason, Carter still acting out after a few episodes of season 1 some how makes her a little monster.  There should be some perspective.  The show is already tempering Carter's response probably because they believe audiences are unable to fully appreciate how traumatic this would be. 

The problem for me is that the show isn't demonstrating that Carter has been traumatized at all. I'd imagine we all showed up to this series expecting to find her character extremely sympathetic, but they haven't had her behave like a traumatized person in any way. She acted from the word "go" like this wasn't that big a deal and has just been a typical angsty, rebellious teenager with a nasty attitude. Not to mention she still hasn't once expressed anger/rage/sadness about Lori's betrayal. I cannot fathom the magnitude of it, but she still thinks Lori is great and is focusing more on minor betrayals (and everyone is letting her control everything). Now, if anything about the show indicated that this was about denial and that her little teen-rebel antics and eye-rolls were just a defense mechanism to avoid dealing with the earth-shaking horror that is the actual truth, that would be okay with me. As long as we got to her legitimate trauma eventually. But the series seems to be about so much shrugging off.

 

I hope this changes.

[aradia22]

Is it wrong that I enjoyed watching Carter being played by David when she's been so infuriating and continues to think she can just run everything?

[Kromm]

Is it wrong that I enjoyed watching Carter being played by David when she's been so infuriating and continues to think she can just run everything?

That might imply you think David is admirable, though.

[aradia22]

 

That might imply you think David is admirable, though.

Nope. Though it wouldn't be the worst thing. None of them seem like people to me. They seem like dolls that just move around and say unnatural things. The writing wasn't as bad as last week but that Elizabeth/David confrontation felt very off. Like, real people don't talk like that. 

[GaT]

I'm kind of confused about where the show is going parent wise. They've made all the parents out to be assholes or criminals, so is Carter not supposed to have any good parents? Are they going to have her turn 18 & leave all of them?

[Kromm]

I'm kind of confused about where the show is going parent wise. They've made all the parents out to be assholes or criminals, so is Carter not supposed to have any good parents? Are they going to have her turn 18 & leave all of them?

Why would she want to leave her sister and brother?  They seem nice!

 

Maybe the two girls can apply for custody of their younger brother and leave ALL of the loser parents behind.

[GaT]

She can go live with Bird, she has a nice big house with vodka, and no parents to bother her.

[dohe]

The problem for me is that the show isn't demonstrating that Carter has been traumatized at all. I'd imagine we all showed up to this series expecting to find her character extremely sympathetic, but they haven't had her behave like a traumatized person in any way. She acted from the word "go" like this wasn't that big a deal and has just been a typical angsty, rebellious teenager with a nasty attitude. Not to mention she still hasn't once expressed anger/rage/sadness about Lori's betrayal. I cannot fathom the magnitude of it, but she still thinks Lori is great and is focusing more on minor betrayals (and everyone is letting her control everything). Now, if anything about the show indicated that this was about denial and that her little teen-rebel antics and eye-rolls were just a defense mechanism to avoid dealing with the earth-shaking horror that is the actual truth, that would be okay with me. As long as we got to her legitimate trauma eventually. But the series seems to be about so much shrugging off.

 

I hope this changes.

There is an interesting part in here.  You discuss how she has not shown "expressed anger/rage/sadness about Lori's betrayal."  However that is viewing Lori through our eyes and expecting Carter, who has been raised by Lori, to view her the same.  I think Lori committed a monstrous act and should be behind bars the rest of her life.  However the expectation that Carter is going to view Lori in the same way we do doesn't work.  For example, consider the Stephen Fagan case.  His wife had custody of their two daughters.  They were very little at the time.  Fagan took them, told the girls their Mom died, and raised the girls.  Years later, he was discovered.  As an observer, the want was that Fagan would be locked up for the rest of his life and his daughters would be reunited with the Mom.  However the two daughters did not know of their Mom anymore, only knew their Dad as a parent, and therefore rejected a reconciliation with their Mom while defending their Dad all the way.  It was horrible to watch.  As more and more came out about Fagan, it became apparent this was a possessive, disturbed individual.  And yet these women could only see him as perfect while ignoring their mom.  We see that and think how in the world can this Mom be punished more.

 

This show opened with Carter happy, smiling, perfectly content and adoring the person she saw as her Mom.  The act she was busted for did not come out of rebellion but just enjoying herself with friends to the point of getting carried away.  Then her world and her identity were obliterated.  Does her real Mom deserve the grief she has felt?  Absolutely not.  But there seems to be an inability to comprehend that does not mean Carter is bad in all this.  Carter is a victim here.  As for her not demonstrating the behavior of someone who has been traumatized, she is actually very much demonstrating the behavior of a traumatized person.  Teens that have undergone trauma often lash out, push the buttons of and act nasty towards their parents, disrespect groundrules, constantly question family, and embrace what they think will upset parents.  Not every child that acts like that has undergone trauma.  But victims of trauma often engage in those behaviors while displaying moments of empathy and a desire to be cared about that are at odds with that.  Remember the Carter we saw at the beginning was about as polite and respectful to Lori as could be. As it is, I find the expectation that Carter would feel anger to Lori and embrace her real Mom as her Mom this quickly to be a bit too optimistic. Just because we correctly see Lori as the villain in this does not mean we should expect Carter, the victim who spent years being manipulated by the person she knew as her Mom, to recognize the same. 

Edited August 22, 2014 by dohe

[grandemocha]

Even victims, like Carter, can act like assholes..which she has.  I have sympathy (sometimes) for Carter, but just because she was kidnapped doesn't mean I personally excuse her behavior when she acts like a rude bitch. She's still a person, right? Who knows how to use her brain and be nice and considerate? She just chooses not to. Lori raised her as her BFF, not a proper respectful parent/child relationship where you follow the rules and behave. It reminds me of Lorelai/Rory from Gilmore Girls.

 

What initially stuck out to me in the pilot is that carter was HAPPY and pleased with herself in jail. She wasn't sorry at all or scared or worried about Lori's reaction. Her friends who had actual parents were worried and concerned, but she wasn't.

[Kromm]

Even victims, like Carter, can act like assholes..which she has.  I have sympathy (sometimes) for Carter, but just because she was kidnapped doesn't mean I personally excuse her behavior when she acts like a rude bitch. She's still a person, right? Who knows how to use her brain and be nice and considerate? She just chooses not to. Lori raised her as her BFF, not a proper respectful parent/child relationship where you follow the rules and behave. It reminds me of Lorelai/Rory from Gilmore Girls.

 

What initially stuck out to me in the pilot is that carter was HAPPY and pleased with herself in jail. She wasn't sorry at all or scared or worried about Lori's reaction. Her friends who had actual parents were worried and concerned, but she wasn't.

This seems like valid criticism to a degree if we were only looking at the Carter from the first few episodes (especially Episode 2, but to a degree she relapsed a bit around Episode 4). But they've made sure at other times we've seen that she's not really that bad. She clearly cares a lot for the sister--it's made clear she's the primary reason Carter didn't leave with Lori. She identifies really closely with the little Brother, even if she does seem to fall prey to the same "forgetting he exists" thing the show has him joke about everyone doing. She bonded with Asshole Dad, since she didn't know at the time he was an Asshole. Is it FAIR she's singled out Elizabeth to some degree to act out against? Actually... within the logic of the story, as weak as it is, maybe it IS fair--or if not fair at least understandable. Elizabeth is not only the one who wanted to lock Lori up, but also the visible symbol of what was changed in her life. So she's the natural target for the resentment. But even here, the show at least made some attempts to show that Carter comprehends that it's not actually Elizabeth's fault. They started this around the episode where she did the ride along with Elizabeth and have continued it since.

Is the show still an unrealistic manipulative mess? Sure. But for far more valid reasons than "Carter is an asshole to everyone".Really, she's mostly not. We see signs of her being badly raised, sure, but she doesn't haplessly trample over everyone's feelings in every episode or anything even close to that. Outside of some cartoonish "rebellion" episodes, like ODing and hanging out with a Drug Dealing Scumbag (who's continued inclusion in the show really is sending mixed messages I loathe), it's typical teenaged girl stuff, like arguing a lot with a more uptight sister.

[gesundheit]

 As it is, I find the expectation that Carter would feel anger to Lori and embrace her real Mom as her Mom this quickly to be a bit too optimistic. Just because we correctly see Lori as the villain in this does not mean we should expect Carter, the victim who spent years being manipulated by the person she knew as her Mom, to recognize the same. 

 

Since this was in response to me, I'm a little confused about this part. I certainly don't expect Carter to feel immediate anger toward Lori or accept Elizabeth as her mother right away. What I expect is for the show to explore how earth-shaking this would be for Carter. To show that this is massive, to show her needing help, getting help, asking questions. I rarely feel like we're watching anything other than show with just a standard teen premise. I mean at this point we have the real parents not even caring that they can find their child's kidnapper, and there's no indication that the feds are still looking. And nobody is giving Carter any pushback on her affection for Lori. She needs help and the show doesn't seem to be interested in that. 

 

I'm kind of confused about where the show is going parent wise. They've made all the parents out to be assholes or criminals, so is Carter not supposed to have any good parents? Are they going to have her turn 18 & leave all of them?

Other than being way too much of a pushover, I don't think there's much wrong with Elizabeth. She seems to be a pretty loving mother. Most kids would be lucky to have a mother like that.

[joanne3482]

Not to mention she still hasn't once expressed anger/rage/sadness about Lori's betrayal.

 

I think they're taking a slow build with this. Carter keeps having these Lori flashbacks and I think that's the point of them. She's reviewing her history through this lens of new information. I think she'll end up blowing up at Lori. 

[tveyeonyou]

Each week they find a new way for David to be a vain, insincere prick. But Denisof is killing it performance-wise.

And each week my love for Max and Taylor grows and grows!

This for the win! Alexis Denisof is the only reason I began to watch this show. I don't even care how douche-y his character is, I love him in any role.

Max and Taylor are the reason I keep watching, the rest? Yawn.

[dohe]

Gesundheit,

 

Often with trauma victims it is, as Joanne3482 pointed out, a "slow build".  I think film and tv often creates these immediate reactions when often a person who has undergone a traumatic experience keeps quite a bit bottled up with random rebellious acts that simultaneously strike out and desire understanding.   

This seems like valid criticism to a degree if we were only looking at the Carter from the first few episodes (especially Episode 2, but to a degree she relapsed a bit around Episode 4). But they've made sure at other times we've seen that she's not really that bad. She clearly cares a lot for the sister--it's made clear she's the primary reason Carter didn't leave with Lori. She identifies really closely with the little Brother, even if she does seem to fall prey to the same "forgetting he exists" thing the show has him joke about everyone doing. She bonded with Asshole Dad, since she didn't know at the time he was an Asshole. Is it FAIR she's singled out Elizabeth to some degree to act out against? Actually... within the logic of the story, as weak as it is, maybe it IS fair--or if not fair at least understandable. Elizabeth is not only the one who wanted to lock Lori up, but also the visible symbol of what was changed in her life. So she's the natural target for the resentment. But even here, the show at least made some attempts to show that Carter comprehends that it's not actually Elizabeth's fault. They started this around the episode where she did the ride along with Elizabeth and have continued it since.

Is the show still an unrealistic manipulative mess? Sure. But for far more valid reasons than "Carter is an asshole to everyone".Really, she's mostly not. We see signs of her being badly raised, sure, but she doesn't haplessly trample over everyone's feelings in every episode or anything even close to that. Outside of some cartoonish "rebellion" episodes, like ODing and hanging out with a Drug Dealing Scumbag (who's continued inclusion in the show really is sending mixed messages I loathe), it's typical teenaged girl stuff, like arguing a lot with a more uptight sister.

What a fantastic post!  When I first heard of this show I was worried.  I figured a too realistic depiction of someone in Carter's position would have audiences thoroughly pissed at her.  I think they really tempered her down quite a bit to make her more accessible. 

 

 

Even victims, like Carter, can act like assholes..which she has.  I have sympathy (sometimes) for Carter, but just because she was kidnapped doesn't mean I personally excuse her behavior when she acts like a rude bitch. She's still a person, right? Who knows how to use her brain and be nice and considerate? She just chooses not to. Lori raised her as her BFF, not a proper respectful parent/child relationship where you follow the rules and behave. It reminds me of Lorelai/Rory from Gilmore Girls.

 

What initially stuck out to me in the pilot is that carter was HAPPY and pleased with herself in jail. She wasn't sorry at all or scared or worried about Lori's reaction. Her friends who had actual parents were worried and concerned, but she wasn't.

No one here is saying Lori is the good person and no one is saying that Elizabeth is the bad person.  However we shouldn't reject the context for Carter just because we, the viewer, know who is in the right between Lori and Elizabeth.  Because Carter still loves Lori and has struggled in her relationship with Elizabeth doesn't mean she isn't using her brain.   It means she is human. 

Edited August 23, 2014 by dohe

[ASpring1900]

The "huh?" moment for me in this episode was Elizabeth laughing off Taylor being high and calling her her "flower child". This seemed out of character for Elizabeth. Wasn't she furious with Carter's involvement with Crash because of drugs? I thought she would flip out and demand to know if the girls were with Crash, and start yelling at Carter for her negative influence on Taylor. Even if the exposed affair was weighing heavily on her mind, you would think Elizabeth, who has always been shown as an (over)protective mother would react to this...

 

I enjoy David because I just don't know if he is a good guy who can be bad, or a bad guy that can be good.

 

And I felt like I missed something (maybe I did): I know he spoke to Lori on the phone at the end of the last episode, but did he know she was not going to show up? Was a meeting ever scheduled? If not, that was pretty cruel of him to do to Carter.

[aradia22]

 

The "huh?" moment for me in this episode was Elizabeth laughing off Taylor being high and calling her her "flower child". This seemed out of character for Elizabeth.

I thought she called her "follower child" like even though Carter and Crash said they didn't pressure Taylor she's a natural follower. I forget what Taylor said right before that. I think Elizabeth was about to lecture her and she just acquiesced again which was why the line made sense to me like that. Also, we've gotten hints that Elizabeth might have indulged in her share of bad behavior when she was younger so while she's very protective of her children I think there's a part of her that doesn't take everything super seriously (e.g. thinking that Taylor getting high one time will lead down a dark road to addiction and self-destruction). 

 

I don't know. I just find Carter annoying. I suppose the entire characterization could be consistent but it doesn't make her likable. If you take everything into consideration then she's a screw up who still feels entitled to judge everyone else. It's not an unusual character type but it doesn't make her compelling to watch for me because I don't think she's really going to change.

[Mabinogia]

From what I saw it seems that he never set up the meeting and knew Lori wasn't showing up and made his daughter wait there for at least an hour for something he knew was NEVER going to happen. So yes, very cruel. More proof that, of all of them, even Lori, he is hands down the worst parent on the show. I just don't see any chance of redeeming him.

 

I think he's a bad guy who can fake being good really well at worst. At best he's incredibly misguided narcissist who has no clue how his actions affect others.

[Kromm]

And I felt like I missed something (maybe I did): I know he spoke to Lori on the phone at the end of the last episode, but did he know she was not going to show up? Was a meeting ever scheduled? If not, that was pretty cruel of him to do to Carter.

There was never any meeting.  The entire thing was a fabrication.