S01.E05: Partings

[paulvdb]

Episode Synopsis:

Nori questions her instincts; Elrond struggles to stay true to his oath; Halbrand weighs his destiny; The Southlanders brace for attack.

Reminder: 

This is for discussion of the TV show only, no book talk allowed - including saying "but it's different in the books". Any spoiler from outside the books and stories (including previews or the movies) should be in spoiler tags.

[Camera One]

For me, the show has settled.  I found this episode on par with the last one.  Not great but not horrible, mildly watchable as a visual sort of escape, but also not satisfying.

The Harfoots were back, and I didn't mind their subplot too much except the ending.  The background scenery was nice, and I liked the song.  They sure travelled a long, long way and just got attacked by 3 wild animals?  Did they even have weapons to protect themselves from all the afore-mentioned "perils"?  Nori only got "hurt" by the ice because she was idiotic enough to touch it when the stranger was in a trance, and now she was suddenly spooked by him?  

In Linden, Gil-galad still seemed like a total creep.  They suddenly needed mithril by spring or the elves will "fade" and "perish"?  Huh?  The unnatural wannabe Tolkien dialogue unfortunately showed up the most with the elves talking.  I wanted to like the stuff with Elrond and Durin but like last week, I didn't think the scenes with their friendship had been earned.  On paper, it should have been a nice moment at the end, but it wasn't satisfying since so much was made of the oath and now Durin will be fine with helping the elves get mithril?

The South Lands plot felt pretty hopeless.  The orcs hadn't surrounded the tower yet.  Was running north or west not an option?  I was glad that Theo showed the blade to Arondir, but I didn't catch what the big deal was with the wall etching.  Again, Arondir and Bronwyn was having this personal moment in the middle of a bunch of people which made the scene distracting because those other people must have heard what they were said but no one responded.  

Three sad little boats are supposed to save the South Landers?  Are the South Landers supposed to wait three months, or will they zip along as fast as the Harfoots pulling heavy carts?  The Numenor stuff was hard to follow and was the least coherent.  How did Halbrand suddenly get guild membership?  Why would Galadriel expect him to have current information about the enemy?  Why was Isildur's sister trying to stop the armies from leaving?  (I am assuming she didn't want her father going off to fight, but she would actually sabotage the mission - we saw nothing in the last episode which would indicate she would do this).  Isildur and Elendil were the more likeable characters, but their conflict felt manufactured and made little sense, and the way Isildur "earned" his spot was dumb.  Isildur's friend didn't want to recruit him because he was afraid he would let go of the rope again and doom them all, or what?  But they were back to being BFFs at the end?   None of it felt satisfying.  Galadriel was a bit less abrasive, but she was still not likeable.  In that emotional scene with Halbrand, we literally learned nothing new.  I wasn't sure why Halbrand changed his mind, and he left behind his signature emblem thing because?

Overall, the same problems from the last episode persisted.  When characters made decisions or acted in certain ways, I often wasn't convinced of the reasons provided for why they decided/acted the way they did.  So the story just wasn't very immersive, and I was often taken out of the narrative.

[PeterPirate]

39 minutes ago, Camera One said:

How did Halbrand suddenly get guild membership?

I watch with the captions on.  It was his reward for telling Pharazon that Galadriel was going to see Tar-Palantir.  I don't understand how he became "Lord Halbrand".  

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

Three sad little boats are supposed to save the South Landers?  Are the South Landers supposed to wait three months, or will they zip along as fast as the Harfoots pulling heavy carts? Why would Galadriel expect him to have current information about the enemy? 

The aspects of this military expedition make little sense.  But the sword fight between Galadriel and the trainees was good.  And the cavalry always arrives in the nick of time.  

They did clarify that Pharazon had sway over the people and was encouraging the expedition.  That was a nice resolution from last week.  

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

They suddenly needed mithril by spring or the elves will "fade" and "perish"?  Huh? 

That part had me confused as well.  Elrond kept his oath to Durin and did not tell Gil-Galad about the mithril the Dwarves had found, but then he showed his sample to Celebrimbor, who had already gotten his hands on some and tested it.  

[Penman61]

I feel like this series has been made by a powerful AI that was fed Jackson's LOTR: It's succeeding on a lot of the externals, but it's missing the soul.

The storytelling and character development are hitting expected beats, but they aren't landing emotionally. The lovely music is telling me what to feel, but I'm not believing it. The dialog exposits, but it feels forced and stiff. The acting (Elrond excepted) is competent but unsurprising and uninvolving--and the series lead, Galadriel, is, unfortunately, the least involving of all. 

Structurally, it's so by-the-numbers that it's a mess: We got at least three "I'm rallying the troops--they can never take our freedom!" speeches in this single episode. We're more than halfway through this season and we finally have a clear central story. 

Also: Just three Numenor boats to save Middle Earth?

[Harvey]

The hilt is definitely a key to ignite Mount Doom and make it erupt so the orcs can flourish in the southlands

[Camera One]

I really like this composer's work in other series, but so far, I actually haven't been moved by the music and I don't find it memorable, for some reason.  I do like the music in the opening titles but that was composed by Howard Shore.  I actually found the music a little obtrusive sometimes, like in the final scene with the ships sailing off.

After a few episodes that featured just 3 of the plot threads, this episode visited all 4 of the plot threads: Harfoots, South Lands, Numenor and Linden.  The positive of that was less dwelling in one place, so in some ways it might have kept my attention more.  But the negative was the various subplots being a little underdeveloped.  In some ways, the show moves too fast, skipping moments or character beats.  But in other ways, the plot feels like it's treading water.  Like we spent the entire episode in Numenor on basically getting ready to leave.  

And then there was the time factor.  Was the Harfoot journey supposed to encompass the time period from the last episode as well?  Yet they intercut with the South Lands with Bronwyn speaking to the people about Adar's message.  The Numenorians hadn't left yet, but Durin and Elrond were already in Linden.  They made it look like the walk from Linden to Khazak-dum was like a quick visit to the corner store.  I want to know about those random extra elves having dinner with them.  Galadriel could learn some humility from the elves dutifully carrying that table for Durin.

3 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

I watch with the captions on.  It was his reward for telling Pharazon that Galadriel was going to see Tar-Palantir.  I don't understand how he became "Lord Halbrand".  

Thanks.  So Galadriel was okay with that?  Or if she doesn't know, she isn't suspicious how Halbrand got the guild membership?  

So is Galadriel not suspicious of Pharazon at all?  I was a little appalled when she mentioned Miriam's father in front of Pharazon.  

Pharazon has the sway of the people, but the people seem about as fickle as the sea is right.  Ditto for the South Landers.  Bronwyn says let's fight and it sounds like everyone cheers with no immediate dissention.  Then old Sauron-loving barkeep speaks and the same crowd seems to cheer with no immediate dissention.  It just felt unnatural.

I don't see why Galadriel is so confident.  There wasn't enough boats even when they had 5, but they are sending a bunch of inexperienced newbies (thank goodness they got one training session!).  An entire company of elves couldn't handle a snow troll.  And we already saw how Arondir's elven comrades couldn't put up much of a resistance against orcs.

Halbrand's "You don't know what I've done" with zero follow-up.  Don't tell me Galadriel will find out he murdered her brother just when they are about to embark on a relationship.

[johntfs]

22 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I really like this composer's work in other series, but so far, I actually haven't been moved by the music and I don't find it memorable, for some reason.  I do like the music in the opening titles but that was composed by Howard Shore.  I actually found the music a little obtrusive sometimes, like in the final scene with the ships sailing off.

After a few episodes that featured just 3 of the plot threads, this episode visited all 4 of the plot threads: Harfoots, South Lands, Numenor and Linden.  The positive of that was less dwelling in one place, so in some ways it might have kept my attention more.  But the negative was the various subplots being a little underdeveloped.  In some ways, the show moves too fast, skipping moments or character beats.  But in other ways, the plot feels like it's treading water.  Like we spent the entire episode in Numenor on basically getting ready to leave.  

And then there was the time factor.  Was the Harfoot journey supposed to encompass the time period from the last episode as well?  Yet they intercut with the South Lands with Bronwyn speaking to the people about Adar's message.  The Numenorians hadn't left yet, but Durin and Elrond were already in Linden.  They made it look like the walk from Linden to Khazak-dum was like a quick visit to the corner store.  I want to know about those random extra elves having dinner with them.  Galadriel could learn some humility from the elves dutifully carrying that table for Durin.

Thanks.  So Galadriel was okay with that?  Or if she doesn't know, she isn't suspicious how Halbrand got the guild membership?  

So is Galadriel not suspicious of Pharazon at all?  I was a little appalled when she mentioned Miriam's father in front of Pharazon.  

Pharazon has the sway of the people, but the people seem about as fickle as the sea is right.  Ditto for the South Landers.  Bronwyn says let's fight and it sounds like everyone cheers with no immediate dissention.  Then old Sauron-loving barkeep speaks and the same crowd seems to cheer with no immediate dissention.  It just felt unnatural.

I don't see why Galadriel is so confident.  There wasn't enough boats even when they had 5, but they are sending a bunch of inexperienced newbies (thank goodness they got one training session!).  An entire company of elves couldn't handle a snow troll.  And we already saw how Arondir's elven comrades couldn't put up much of a resistance against orcs.

Halbrand's "You don't know what I've done" with zero follow-up.  Don't tell me Galadriel will find out he murdered her brother just when they are about to embark on a relationship.

Galadrial was the one pushing Halbrand as the would-be Southlands king.  Him being called "Lord Halbrand" is down to her.  And no, she wasn't "suspicious" about how Halbrand got his guild membership.  She knew damned well that he'd ratted her out about going to see the old king.  She didn't care about that as long he played his part as the would-be king.  This was all explicitly spelled out in the show.

Pharazon is supporting the expedition, albeit for his own reasons.  Galadrial doesn't give a shit about Numenorean politics outside of that.

Bronwyn appealed to their patriotism and emotions.  The barkeep appealed to their "the elves have been keeping a boot on our necks for 3000 years and also if we don't join (Adar) he's going to kill us to the last child."

Yep.  Halbrand murdered Galadrial's brother.  After using a time machine to go back multiple centuries to find said brother.

[wanderingstar]

This show is absolutely stunning to look at. Like damn, that scenery gets me every time!

Good follow-up to the last episode.

I wasn’t sure if Halbrand was going to join Galadriel and Co., so that was a pleasant surprise. Loving Elendil and his dynamic with Galadriel. Her mock sword fight with the cadets was fun.

The Harfoot story is moving pretty slowly. I wanna know who The Stranger is sooner rather than later.

Edited September 23, 2022 by Gillian Rosh

[thuganomics85]

I knew that Durin's story about the importance of the table was all going to just be an act, but I still cracked up over the reveal and Elrond's reaction to it.  Whatever flaws this show has, I really do enjoy the duo.  Maybe the development isn't fully there, but the actors really have done a great job establishing the bond and making it feel like an old friendship that is being rekindled after a notable absence.

At least the Numenors are finally getting off their butts and heading to Middle Earth, even if it only consists of three ships.  Almost all the main players are going on the journey too, including Isildur, who is able to get onboard as a calvary member thanks to his "heroic save of the Chancellor's son" a.k.a. he was trying to stow away, the Chancellor's son was trying to burn the boat down because he's hot for Isildur's sister, and hijinks ensued!  Also, Halbrand seems ready to accept his destiny somewhat, even though he's clearly still not over whatever dark things he did.

Galadriel's training/fight sequence was fun and she was better this go around, but the best parts are still when she gets too smug, only for Miriel to put her back in check with ease.

Harfoots weren't too annoying this time, but if you see someone magically transferring into ice, maybe grabbing said arm transferring into ice isn't the smartest thing you could do, Nori.

Again, I know this show is its own thing compared to the films, but Benjamin Walker's performance as the elf High King was kind of coming off like an imitation of Lee Pace's Thranduil from The Hobbit movies.

Pretty much on par with last week's episode which is a good enough thing for now, but I'm really hoping the back half ends things on a stronger note.

[PeterPirate]

On 9/23/2022 at 7:29 AM, Camera One said:

Thanks.  So Galadriel was okay with that?  Or if she doesn't know, she isn't suspicious how Halbrand got the guild membership?  

Sorry. I should have included more information.  Galadriel says to Halbrand, "I wondered how the queen knew to waylay me at her father's bedside.  It never occurred to me you'd hand me over for a guild crest."

This episode more than the others had me going back and forth to pick up the tidbits.  

On 9/23/2022 at 7:29 AM, Camera One said:

I actually found the music a little obtrusive sometimes, like in the final scene with the ships sailing off.

I agree.  That was a heavy score for three small ships.  

On 9/23/2022 at 12:14 AM, Camera One said:

Why would Galadriel expect him to have current information about the enemy? 

That got me thinking.  Why did Halbrand answer her question?  How could he have that information?  Add in the fact that Halbrand just happened upon Galadriel in the ocean hundreds of miles from his homeland, and that he abandoned his raftmates to save her alone.  My guess is Halbrand is Sauron.  And possibly a repentant Sauron at that.  

Edited September 24, 2022 by PeterPirate

[Camera One]

38 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

Sorry. I should have included more information.  Galadriel says to Halbrand, "I wondered how the queen knew to waylay me at her father's bedside.  It never occurred to me you'd hand me over for a guild crest."

Thanks, that makes more sense now.  I wonder how the beat-up guild members felt.  Pharazon was able to placate one of the beat up guys (the one making the speech about elves taking their jobs) but awarding the guy who assaulted them could make him lose their support.

4 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I'm really hoping the back half ends things on a stronger note.

Things could get good when the various threads finally converge.  At least that's what I'm hoping.

Galadriel's new forces are no match for Adar's forces.  I'm worried Numenor's forces will be decimated which makes more Numenorians hate the elves.  Miriam will be blamed and Pharazon will no doubt slime his way to the top.

[peridot]

Isildur was really getting on my nerves this episode.  He couldn't give a good reason why going on the expedition was a good idea, and yet still tried to use his relationships to join it.  I'm glad his friends said no.  I don't understand why they are friends with him in the first place.

The people that abandoned the tower must be severely regretting their choice.  The old man didn't even hesitate to kill the young boy.  I'm surprised that Theo showed the handle to the elf, but I'm glad he did.

Nori was dumb to put her hands on the ice-covered arm.  I enjoyed hearing the song and seeing how far they traveled.  The other Harfoots are such hypocrites.  The same woman that was urging the tribe to abandon the others was also the one who was saved by Nori and the wizard.

[Constantinople]

If I understand correctly, Númenor decided to send out the expedition at the end of the last episode, halfway through the 8 episode season, only to spend yet another episode hemming and hawing, until to finally decide they really mean it?

It reminded me of the SNL Weekend Update news story about the Falklands War where the reporter recreated the British Fleet's movements in the Atlantic, eventually spelling out the word SLOW.

I also had a flashback to Jurassic Park when Jeff Goldblum speaks into security camera and says

Ah, now eventually you do plan to have dinosaurs on your, on your dinosaur tour, right? Hello? (taps camera) Hello? Yes?

Which in turn reminded me of his other quote

Must go faster

Edited September 24, 2022 by Constantinople

[quarks]

I dunno, Galadriel. Maybe - just maybe - people would be a touch less likely to mutiny against you and send you off to Valinor if - IF - you were the sort of person who is also convinced that you can defeat the armies of a returned Sauron with just yourself and three not all that big ships. And you are supposed to be a strategist. Remind me again, you've been fighting for how many thousands of years now? 

[johntfs]

4 minutes ago, quarks said:

I dunno, Galadriel. Maybe - just maybe - people would be a touch less likely to mutiny against you and send you off to Valinor if - IF - you were the sort of person who is also convinced that you can defeat the armies of a returned Sauron with just yourself and three not all that big ships. And you are supposed to be a strategist. Remind me again, you've been fighting for how many thousands of years now? 

They didn't mutiny and/or try to send her to Valinor because they didn't think she could beat Sauron.  They did it because they thought she was risking their lives trying to find someone who no longer existed.

[Camera One]

12 hours ago, quarks said:

I dunno, Galadriel. Maybe - just maybe - people would be a touch less likely to mutiny against you and send you off to Valinor if - IF - you were the sort of person who is also convinced that you can defeat the armies of a returned Sauron with just yourself and three not all that big ships. And you are supposed to be a strategist. Remind me again, you've been fighting for how many thousands of years now? 

It does seem like part of a recurring pattern with her, to underestimate what she and her "team" can do alone.  If Sauron's forces were actually hiding in the arctic, what could their company have done?  Without Galadriel, the other elves weren't even a match for a single snow troll.  When she first got to Numenor, there was no need for diplomacy since she felt she and Halbrand alone could wrestle a ship to escape.  And now, they are sailing with three ships with some rather green volunteers.  Has Halbrand indicated how many orcs he had seen, and their level of organization?  Since we certainly haven't heard any of it.  When did he leave the South Lands?   How dated is his information?  Is Galadriel going to approach Gil-galad again to rally some more elven troops with the new "evidence" she got in Numenor?  Meanwhile, is Arondir thinking of a way to send a message to Gil-galad?  

I also had a question about Elrond's oath with Durin.  By telling Gil-galad about the oath, he sort of indirectly indicated that the dwarves had found mithril.  He also showed Celebrimbor the sample of mithril.  Does this not technically break the oath?  Does Durin consider the oath broken?  

[MJ Frog]

41 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I also had a question about Elrond's oath with Durin.  By telling Gil-galad about the oath, he sort of indirectly indicated that the dwarves had found mithril.  He also showed Celebrimbor the sample of mithril.  Does this not technically break the oath?  Does Durin consider the oath broken?  

It certainly seems so. This is a pretty disappointing version of Elrond. Can't trust that blabbermouth with anything.

[quarks]

21 hours ago, johntfs said:

They didn't mutiny and/or try to send her to Valinor because they didn't think she could beat Sauron.  They did it because they thought she was risking their lives trying to find someone who no longer existed.

Well, yeah. But they were mutinying because, as you say, she was risking their lives.

And here she's doing that once again - risking people's lives. She knows she's the person least at risk here - it's not just that she showed us she can easily outfight many Numenoreans (probably all of them), but she also, unlike them, has nothing else to live for.

So, yeah, maybe people would stop mutinying against her or trying to send her to Valinor if she wasn't so openly willing to risk people's lives. 

[johntfs]

9 hours ago, quarks said:

Well, yeah. But they were mutinying because, as you say, she was risking their lives.

And here she's doing that once again - risking people's lives. She knows she's the person least at risk here - it's not just that she showed us she can easily outfight many Numenoreans (probably all of them), but she also, unlike them, has nothing else to live for.

So, yeah, maybe people would stop mutinying against her or trying to send her to Valinor if she wasn't so openly willing to risk people's lives. 

It's not the life-risking that was the problem for Galadrial's squad.  Theoretically if I asked you to help me hunt down a serial killer of children, you might help me even though it would likely be a risk of your life.  If I ask you to help me hunt down the Easter Bunny at the risk of your life, that's probably going to be a hard "No." from you.

Galadrial and her squad where basically hunting Sauron as the evil Easter Bunny at the point that they mutinied.  They'd been risking (and probably losing) their immortal lives for centuries hunting him with basically nothing to show for it except a weird sigil in an abandoned-for-centuries fortress (and it's likely that sigil has nothing to do with Sauron but is instead linked to Adar, who is also likely the one who actually killed Galadrial's brother). 

[ShannaB]

Whenever I see the tall stranger with Nori and The Harfoots, I can't help but feel that we are seeing Gandalf at his beginning/arrival in Middle Earth.  Wizards, I think, are described as powerful angelic beings.  The tall stranger is now showing some of his power and he is living with the nature loving Harfoots.  Now, I am curious about who we will see coming  out of the second flaming pod, especially since the pod was found by some people that look decided mean and evil.

[xaxat]

I was a bit miffed when only Galadriel and Halbrand got the "hero" treatment upon the departure of the fleet, when  Miriel is the only reason it happened by committing her fleet and her troops.

On 9/23/2022 at 9:16 AM, Penman61 said:

I feel like this series has been made by a powerful AI that was fed Jackson's LOTR: It's succeeding on a lot of the externals, but it's missing the soul.

I think this is an excellent comparison.

[silverstream]

4 hours ago, ShannaB said:

Whenever I see the tall stranger with Nori and The Harfoots, I can't help but feel that we are seeing Gandalf at his beginning/arrival in Middle Earth.  Wizards, I think, are described as powerful angelic beings.  The tall stranger is now showing some of his power and he is living with the nature loving Harfoots.  Now, I am curious about who we will see coming  out of the second flaming pod, especially since the pod was found by some people that look decided mean and evil.

Is there a second flaming pod person? I had the impression that that was a flashback to the stranger's arrival, and the people who were at the crash site just now realised he's here and will be coming after the stranger, and by extension Nori's family/the Harfoots.

[Anduin]

27 minutes ago, silverstream said:

Is there a second flaming pod person? I had the impression that that was a flashback to the stranger's arrival, and the people who were at the crash site just now realised he's here and will be coming after the stranger, and by extension Nori's family/the Harfoots.

Yes, that's what I thought too.

[ShannaB]

3 hours ago, silverstream said:

Is there a second flaming pod person? I had the impression that that was a flashback to the stranger's arrival, and the people who were at the crash site just now realised he's here and will be coming after the stranger, and by extension Nori's family/the Harfoots.

I may be wrong but that second pod looked whole.  A flashback?  Possibly but I am not willing. at this time to go back and check it out.

[shrewd.buddha]

On 9/24/2022 at 1:05 PM, Camera One said:

By telling Gil-galad about the oath, he sort of indirectly indicated that the dwarves had found mithril. 

When the Elf king asked if they had found it, Elrond had three choices: "Yes",  "No", or "I don't know what you are talking about."
But saying "I made a promise not to tell" is basically saying "Yes".  
You would think the writers would understand that.

On 9/24/2022 at 1:05 PM, Camera One said:

Has Halbrand indicated how many orcs he had seen, and their level of organization?  Since we certainly haven't heard any of it.  When did he leave the South Lands? 

Galadriel has been doing all the planning in Numenor.  Halbrand now has flashbacks of the Orcs, but it looks as if he could have given everyone much more information.  "Oh yeah, maybe it would have helped if I had told you there were ten thousand Orcs instead of just a few hundred."

Edited September 26, 2022 by shrewd.buddha

[grawlix]

13 hours ago, ShannaB said:

I may be wrong but that second pod looked whole.  A flashback?  Possibly but I am not willing. at this time to go back and check it out.

It was a flashback.  The flashback establishes the new group of characters traveled specifically to investigate the site.   There wasn't a second meteor in the sky scene nor any indication in the meteor scene that the core had split to produce a second pod.

Edited September 26, 2022 by grawlix

[PeterPirate]

4 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

Galadriel has been doing all the planning in Numenor.  Halbrand now has flashbacks of the Orcs, but it looks as if he could have given everyone much more information.  "Oh yeah, maybe it would have helped if I had told you there were ten thousand Orcs instead of just a few hundred."

Not to mention that Ostirith is located on an elevated position.  Not the best location for a cavalry charge.   

[RobertDeSneero]

18 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

When the Elf king asked if they had found it, Elrond had three choices: "Yes",  "No", or "I don't know what you are talking about."
But saying "I made a promise not to tell" is basically saying "Yes".  
You would think the writers would understand that.

I see it as a compromise.  Elrond will not lie to his king, who seems to know the answer anyways, but he won't break his promise, so he's pleading the Fifth.

[wanderingstar]

On 9/25/2022 at 2:14 PM, ShannaB said:

Whenever I see the tall stranger with Nori and The Harfoots, I can't help but feel that we are seeing Gandalf at his beginning/arrival in Middle Earth.  Wizards, I think, are described as powerful angelic beings.  The tall stranger is now showing some of his power and he is living with the nature loving Harfoots.  Now, I am curious about who we will see coming  out of the second flaming pod, especially since the pod was found by some people that look decided mean and evil.

I'm wondering if The Stranger will end up being a wizard, but not Gandalf.

[Welshman in Ca]

19 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

I'm wondering if The Stranger will end up being a wizard, but not Gandalf.

The way he acted with the fireflies or whatever they were & how he reacted when he killed one reminded me of Radagast, but that's just me.