S19.E12: Finale Part 2

[LuvMyShows]

5 hours ago, nlkm9 said:

im trying to avoid saying anything but I ncant help myself. Kaitlyn in my opinion has disfigured herself and shes up there with khloe kardashian (who I have only seen on commericals) and bachlorette Jillian and the very first winner of bachelor Amanda stanton as unrecognizeable. very sad.

I think you've confused Amanda Stanton, who was on Ben Higgins' season of The Bachelor and two seasons of Bachelor in Paradise, with Amanda Marsh, who was picked by Alex Michel on the first season of The Bachelor.

5 hours ago, tinkerbell said:

I read an interview where she said she expected Tino would be begging her to take him back after he confessed to cheating. It made me wonder if that would have changed things - fit her fairy tale. He falters, begs for forgiveness,  she reluctantly takes him back, all is well, but she now has the upper hand. The entire season, she has come across as miss high and mighty who must be worshipped. 

Sorry, I keep trying to link the article but it won't work. It's an interview with US magazine

I would love to read that article.  If you can't link it, could you just type in the URL?

[scarlettudor]

Okay, Rachel threw a fit because Tino KISSED an old girlfriend?  Bad judgement, yes.  Cheating?  Not really.  By her reaction, you'd think he made mad passionate love with her for a month or two.  Maybe that's what she suspects.

And as far as Tino (I can't help calling him 'Totino' even though I think that's frozen pizza's brand name), it seemed inappropriate to me that the audience was so bloodcurdling negative to him and positive to the next guy.  He was unwilling to commit (#2 guy), which would seem to me to be a bigger no no than what Totino did. It was just a kiss for gosh sakes!  At least as far as we (or Rachel) know.

[DEL901]

7 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

I think you've confused Amanda Stanton, who was on Ben Higgins' season of The Bachelor and two seasons of Bachelor in Paradise, with Amanda Marsh, who was picked by Alex Michel on the first season of The Bachelor.

I would love to read that article.  If you can't link it, could you just type in the URL?

https://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/pictures/rachels-biggest-post-bachelorette-revelations-about-tino-aven/what-really-happened-with-zach-and-rachel-in-the-fantasy-suites/
 

Here you go.  I posted it a page or so back in this thread.  

[JenE4]

2 hours ago, DEL901 said:

https://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/pictures/rachels-biggest-post-bachelorette-revelations-about-tino-aven/what-really-happened-with-zach-and-rachel-in-the-fantasy-suites/
 

Here you go.  I posted it a page or so back in this thread.  

Thanks! In case others are having the same issues with the link that I did. First, you need to click the big, pink Back to Top button, or you’re only going to see the section about Zach’s fantasy suite date. Then be prepared for the page to crash multiple times as you’re scrolling through all of the sections and ads, at least if you’re using a phone. But, it was worth the hassle. Jeez, I didn’t think it was possible to have such a terrible UX in this day and age—especially on a major media site as opposed to some rinky-dink gossip blog—but maybe they’re trying to force you to their paper magazine or something.

But the gist of it is that Rachel doesn’t believe it was just one kiss and implied it was an ongoing “emotional affair” that he was relying on this girl for support instead of focusing on working through their issues either alone or together. Or, at least that was the impression I got. Just like on the show, she talks around a lot without directly saying what the issues are.

Edited September 24, 2022 by JenE4

[Sweet-tea]

15 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

I noticed Kaitlyn’s face lift is calming down. Last time she was on the show she looked terrible!

I thought she still looked horrible. Her face looked unnatural.

[nlkm9]

9 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

I think you've confused Amanda Stanton, who was on Ben Higgins' season of The Bachelor and two seasons of Bachelor in Paradise, with Amanda Marsh, who was picked by Alex Michel on the first season of The Bachelor.

I would love to read that article.  If you can't link it, could you just type in the URL?

You are correct!! Amanda marsh. 

[LuvMyShows]

1 hour ago, JenE4 said:

Thanks! In case others are having the same issues with the link that I did. First, you need to click the big, pink Back to Top button, or you’re only going to see the section about Zach’s fantasy suite date. 

OK, so originally when this link was posted before, I did click on it and only saw the section about Zach's fantasy suite date.  I tried again this time and looked all over the page but didn't see a Back to Top button.  Can you give a little more info as to where it is?  Also, if you are able to get to the good stuff, can you see if there is a different URL that goes directly to it?  Thanks.

[JenE4]

3 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

OK, so originally when this link was posted before, I did click on it and only saw the section about Zach's fantasy suite date.  I tried again this time and looked all over the page but didn't see a Back to Top button.  Can you give a little more info as to where it is?  Also, if you are able to get to the good stuff, can you see if there is a different URL that goes directly to it?  Thanks.

Try this. I’m not sure why US is suddenly worse than Reality Steve’s site.

https://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/pictures/rachels-biggest-post-bachelorette-revelations-about-tino-aven/

[Melonie77]

6 hours ago, JenE4 said:

Thanks! In case others are having the same issues with the link that I did. First, you need to click the big, pink Back to Top button, or you’re only going to see the section about Zach’s fantasy suite date. Then be prepared for the page to crash multiple times as you’re scrolling through all of the sections and ads, at least if you’re using a phone. But, it was worth the hassle. Jeez, I didn’t think it was possible to have such a terrible UX in this day and age—especially on a major media site as opposed to some rinky-dink gossip blog—but maybe they’re trying to force you to their paper magazine or something.

But the gist of it is that Rachel doesn’t believe it was just one kiss and implied it was an ongoing “emotional affair” that he was relying on this girl for support instead of focusing on working through their issues either alone or together. Or, at least that was the impression I got. Just like on the show, she talks around a lot without directly saying what the issues are.

Thanks so much for this info - I could not figure out why I was only getting the Zach story!

I'm using a laptop and once I clicked the back to top button as you suggested, it brought me right to the full Rachel article.  I had no crashing issues at all.
I think they must have updated the article but why it is set up and layered like that I don't know.

Here is the link I landed on for the full article which looks like the same one you posted above:

https://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/pictures/rachels-biggest-post-bachelorette-revelations-about-tino-aven/

Regarding Reality Steve's site - so many people complain about what a mess that is!

I think the trick is to use an ad-blocker. 

I originally found his site impossible to navigate until I started using an ad-blocker a few years ago. Now I never have any issues with crashing or pages refusing to load, etc.

His site is still not that user friendly but I usually go to his home page and look for whatever is new. He doesn't seem to update his page links often.

[maggiemae]

I think Rachel is off her rocker.

She sure shows up for interviews...but not dates, cocktail parties or home town visits.

[LuvMyShows]

On 9/23/2022 at 5:41 PM, tinkerbell said:

I read an interview where she said she expected Tino would be begging her to take him back after he confessed to cheating.

Finally read the article, and it really makes me wonder how she got that expectation.  Did the producers tell her that?  And if so, was it initially true and then Tino changed his mind?  Or was it never true but they told her anyway, to ramp things up?  Or was it all in her head?  In a twisted way, I think it's funny that she had that expectation in the back of her mind, so the whole time she was probably thinking, "OK, this is the sentence where he's going to shift and start begging to take me back."

[phlebas]

On 9/23/2022 at 5:41 PM, tinkerbell said:

I find it interesting that the studio audience seemed to be (or was coached to be) 100% in Rachel's corner. Yet everyone, I think, posting here is of the opinion that Rachel is the bad guy here. Not that Tino is blameless, just that Rachel was in  the wrong as well.

Not everyone.  I'm Team Rachel.  I don't think she was a great lead, but I also believe the bulk of what people are hating her for are mostly manufactured by production.

I've actually been meaning to write up/organize my thoughts on this, but I haven't gotten around to it, and by now probably no one but me is interested :)

[DEL901]

50 minutes ago, phlebas said:

Not everyone.  I'm Team Rachel.  I don't think she was a great lead, but I also believe the bulk of what people are hating her for are mostly manufactured by production.

I've actually been meaning to write up/organize my thoughts on this, but I haven't gotten around to it, and by now probably no one but me is interested :)

I think that if it been just her interactions with Zach or Aven or Tino I’d possibly be team Rachel, but when you add them together, I just can’t blame production for everything.  

[phlebas]

45 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

I think that if it been just her interactions with Zach or Aven or Tino I’d possibly be team Rachel, but when you add them together, I just can’t blame production for everything.  

I totally can :)

I'm not saying Rachel didn't do anything wrong.  If nothing else, she's a little naïve and has a temper. I'm just saying the Reality Show Rachel on TV is a sociopathic construct that may not really resemble Real Life Rachel as much as Bachelor Nation is assuming it does.

All IMHO -- it's not like I know her personally.

[Melonie77]

I really think Rachel may be quite angry over her portrayal on the show, the criticism she got from the public and the fact that she ended up without a man. Someone who appears to be so vain and spoiled is not going to react well at all to such a huge amount of negative feedback.

I'm not surprised she's doing a lot of interviews - she's probably trying to 'correct' the public's perception of her. We learned throughout the season that she was very concerned about appearances.

I've been wondering if the therapy she said she was undertaking was to help her deal with the way the show turned out for her. And I wonder if her anger over her portrayal may have affected her relationship with Tino. I agree with those that said the show enlisted Aven to come back and help give her some sort of upbeat ending. 

I do think the show probably took advantage of her issues but they didn't fabricate them.

[chocolatine]

6 hours ago, Melonie77 said:

I've been wondering if the therapy she said she was undertaking was to help her deal with the way the show turned out for her. And I wonder if her anger over her portrayal may have affected her relationship with Tino. I agree with those that said the show enlisted Aven to come back and help give her some sort of upbeat ending. 

I do think the show probably took advantage of her issues but they didn't fabricate them.

Or maybe she needed therapy after all the public rejection she experienced on the show. She probably went into it thinking that the men were all going to fawn over her, but the reality turned out very differently.

[Melonie77]

2 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Or maybe she needed therapy after all the public rejection she experienced on the show. She probably went into it thinking that the men were all going to fawn over her, but the reality turned out very differently.

Yes, that's what I mean....everything about how the show turned out for her. I can imagine her at the Unhappy Couple House with Tino watching the show with him becoming more and more angry until steam starts pouring out of her ears!🤣

In the meantime Gabby was tied for the top dance tonight on DWTS. She and Val danced a beautiful Viennese waltz to Elvis song "Can't Help Falling In Love". I loved her gorgeous lemon yellow dress with transparent skirt studded with sequins or crystals. 
Erich stopped by their rehearsal and was actually part of the dance at the end when she went up to him and they kissed! 😊

[Madding crowd]

I don’t think Rachel is a bad person or any different than Gabby. Gabby also insisted she was waiting for a proposal and she had guys leave because they didn’t want to propose. She also cried just as much as Rachel. Actually I think both are decent young woman who were probably too emotional for this show and were promised something by production that they didn’t get.

[phlebas]

16 hours ago, Melonie77 said:

I do think the show probably took advantage of her issues but they didn't fabricate them.

I don't think they made them up out of whole cloth. I do think Rachel (and Gabby) (and Hannah B) (and just about every other Bachelorette lead) (and probably all the Bachelors too) show up with various exploitable insecurities.

If you listen to Sharleen's podcast, she talks often about how long production will have you in a room for those ITMs, then they curate those comments to show the ones fitting whatever narrative they want and edit them to get them in the desired context.

Everything we see has been edited by people who know how the show ends, and they build the story backwards from there. I'm curious to know how the unaired shows were re-edited after they got word about Rachel and Tino splitting up. Once we knew we were looking at one happy ending and one tragedy in the same show, they had a whole new sandbox.  Do they make it look like it's Rachel's fault or highlight what a stupid process this is?

Filming on this season began days after Clay-Taur's Finale, so all that was fresh in both of their minds at the time. Rachel said she had been in therapy after that season wrapped, but it was obviously still very much on both their minds. Naturally, the show sets them up so they can both get rejected multiple times early in the season -- they must have had PTSD by the time they got on that ship, and production kept picking at those scabs at every opportunity.

This season was designed to make them both look nuts. Gabby was better able to incorporate it, and Rachel was left flailing. I hope for her sake she steps away from this franchise for awhile.

[Black Knight]

The producers have some sort of dark magic for sure. The EW recapper pointed out how insane the moment where Tino tells a producer to tell Rachel to break up with him was, how it's an example of how the producers manage to make grown adults so dependent on them. I keep imagining Shiri Appleby just offscreen.

[dizzyd]

Just adding to the pics posted by @Melonie77 from last night’s DWTS. Probably should be on the media thread though. 

She did really well, but I don’t see her winning like Kaitlyn did since Charli and Wayne are very good and I think have bigger fan bases. 

Edited September 27, 2022 by dizzyd

[nlkm9]

10 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I don’t think Rachel is a bad person or any different than Gabby. Gabby also insisted she was waiting for a proposal and she had guys leave because they didn’t want to propose. She also cried just as much as Rachel. Actually I think both are decent young woman who were probably too emotional for this show and were promised something by production that they didn’t get.

I have to say the way she cried over aven was so raw. If i was tino i dont think i could ever get past that. If that was fake, wow she wins an oscar

[LuvMyShows]

19 hours ago, Melonie77 said:

Yes, that's what I mean....everything about how the show turned out for her. I can imagine her at the Unhappy Couple House with Tino watching the show with him becoming more and more angry until steam starts pouring out of her ears!🤣

In the meantime Gabby was tied for the top dance tonight on DWTS. She and Val danced a beautiful Viennese waltz to Elvis song "Can't Help Falling In Love". I loved her gorgeous lemon yellow dress with transparent skirt studded with sequins or crystals. 
Erich stopped by their rehearsal and was actually part of the dance at the end when she went up to him and they kissed! 😊

As hard as I've been trying, I just can't recognize the woman in the picture as Gabby.  If anything, she looks like a cross between Vanessa Williams and Kaitlyn Bristowe.  Yeah, I know that's crazy.

[kazza]

On 9/26/2022 at 9:33 AM, phlebas said:

Not everyone.  I'm Team Rachel.  I don't think she was a great lead, but I also believe the bulk of what people are hating her for are mostly manufactured by production.

I've actually been meaning to write up/organize my thoughts on this, but I haven't gotten around to it, and by now probably no one but me is interested :)

I agree with you @phlebas. Rachel wasn’t great, but I can’t imagine what it was like to go straight from what sounded like the disaster that was Clayton (I only saw the last 2 episodes of his season and - just wow) to all of this. And as nice as it was to have Gabby with her on the journey - and their genuine friendship and mutual support was one of the highlights of this season - it was also probably hard not to compare herself constantly.  

I suspect what we saw was an exaggerated version of herself due to these stressors. 

[maggiemae]

I don't know...when Rachel blew off groups dates and cocktail parties all the time crying endlessly did not make me love her or think of her as a stable person for the guys to desire.