The Idol - General Discussion

[marny]

Does The Weeknd have blackmail photos of some important HBO execs? That’s the only explanation for how they not only made this, but re-made it to make him happy and then actually aired it. I intended to stop watching but then decided to try hate-watching it, but even that’s too boring. 
 

Is there even a plot at this point? I honestly don’t even understand what message or point of view the show is trying to present. And I can’t imagine a world where someone as devoid of charisma as Jocelyn is a star. She has 2 modes: crying and naked. 

[cmfran]

On 6/26/2023 at 9:28 AM, luckyroll3 said:

It's been reported that they're only doing 5 eps, so don't look too hard!

 

I think that scene with Xander was to show that Jocelyn knows exactly what she's doing. Notice he said "Ask Jocelyn" why he no longer sings. She knew all the shit her mother did to Xander, but pretended not to because her mom is the evil one, not her. She's been watching Tedros treat everyone like shit and backing him up. You'd think that when it actually came to him torturing her best friend, someone she's been BFFs with since childhood who has been through everything with her, she'd actually put a stop to it, but she enjoyed that shit. 

Loved Destiny this entire episode. From the "we should just kill him" to her giving actually great advice on vocal and life to her great people watching with the stoic face when her brain is all, this is bat shit craziness! We also found out that she's also Jocelyn's manager (why does she have to 2 managers??). 

Also loved the maids totally trashing Tedros and then ending the scene casually with, "we need to find another job....with sane people." Lol!

I need my hiphop card taken away cause I did not realize Mike Dean was a real ass person until I watched the behind the scenes. (According to Wikipedia he's one of the pioneers of the Dirty South sound of the late 1990s-early 2000s! And I'm from Miami, and was in HS/college at that time so I basically grew up partying to that shit! Shame on me! he also was Selena's musical director and producer?!?!? I now need to do an entire deep dive....). I was very worried he and his people weren't getting enough oxygen with all the weed they were smoking. But they were really cracking me up with all the WTF! looks getting thrown back and forth between each other during the recording sessions, plus Mike Dean playing the piano accompaniment to Tedros vs Ex-boyfriend all while smoking his weed and shaking his head, like "this is real dumb, but I'm just gonna mind my business and play my music."

 

To be fair, several indictments and trials happened as they were airing the first season, AND they had convinced that crazy Nancy Saltzman, as well as several of the other followers like Nicki Clyne, to interview. They had to do the second season at that point. 

Now for this show, they have no damn reason cause only the 5 us are watching this shit!

The scene where Mike Dean rolled up in the ridiculous car with weed smoke pouring out and a bong in hand reminded me of something the Lonely Island would do. Is smoking a lot of weed still controversial? Considering it's legal in half of the US states now, I doubt it.

[sadie]

23 minutes ago, cmfran said:

The scene where Mike Dean rolled up in the ridiculous car with weed smoke pouring out and a bong in hand reminded me of something the Lonely Island would do. Is smoking a lot of weed still controversial? Considering it's legal in half of the US states now, I doubt it.

OMG! This scene was so over the top exaggerated ridiculous! We get it, we get it, these guys are sooooo cool that they’re doing bong hits in their car. It was a scene right out of Fast Times at Ridgemont High minus the charm and good writing. Really HBO? So so bad.

[bilgistic]

We could not believe Mike Dean was an actual music producer. We were laughing at the 60-year-old clown rolling up in a cloud of pot smoke to the mansion to work with Tedros only to find out he works with The Weeknd in real life. "Art" imitating life.😂

Also, any illusion I had before this that The Weeknd has any talent has been dispelled.

[Lethallyfab]

8 hours ago, cmfran said:

The scene where Mike Dean rolled up in the ridiculous car with weed smoke pouring out and a bong in hand reminded me of something the Lonely Island would do.

‘The Idol’ *wishes* it could have what The Lonely Island’s ‘Pop Star: Never Stop Never Stopping’ had!

According to a payroll employee on the show on Twitter, it was made and paid as five episodes, so we’re not “losing” an episode.

I guess she was scuttled with the retooling, but does anyone know what Anne Heche’s role would have been?  I could easily see her as Jocelyn’s mom in flashbacks.  Her final role and she’s cut for more of Tedros’s tiresome antics.  This industry was unfair to her until the very end.

(Elizabeth Berkeley was also attached - again, I want the details.  I’m insanely curious as to what the original conception of the show would have looked like.)

[cmfran]

15 hours ago, bilgistic said:

We could not believe Mike Dean was an actual music producer. We were laughing at the 60-year-old clown rolling up in a cloud of pot smoke to the mansion to work with Tedros only to find out he works with The Weeknd in real life. "Art" imitating life.😂

Also, any illusion I had before this that The Weeknd has any talent has been dispelled.

He must have owed the Weeknd a favor or something. No way he'd get involved with this mess otherwise. He also co-wrote and produced one of the songs on the soundtrack.

[skotnikov]

On 6/27/2023 at 1:18 AM, Snazzy Daisy said:

The Idol: HBO’s Controversial Drama Is Ending One Week Early — Here’s Why (Exclusive)

An HBO rep declined to comment, but a source tells TVLine, “The season ended up being five episodes when it was all said and done after Sam [Levinson] took over and made significant changes. The story only ended up requiring 5.”

 

Episode 5 Preview | The Idol | HBO

 

TVLine became such a s**t lately. 

[heatherchandler]

On 6/19/2023 at 12:09 PM, Snazzy Daisy said:

“I’m running the show now.”

Dude, it’s so hard to take you seriously when you dress like this!!!   
 

That blouse he’s always wearing 🤣🤣🤣

[Lethallyfab]

Also, is the makeup budget for him literally $10?  That beard was penciled in with Sharpie.

The Weeknd, Taylor Swift and David Byrne are now officially - well, “invited to join” - members of AMPAS (the Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences — aka the people who vote on The Oscars).  He does actually have a nomination, so…

 

[luckyroll3]

Should we make a drinking game for this last episode? Take a drink if:

• Josslyn get's naked
• Tedros acts like he's in charge
• they introduce another member of Josslyn's team
• the assistant side eyes Tedros
• piano girl skips down a hallway or creepily eavesdrops on someone
• The Weeknd's attempt at acting makes you chuckle.

Although, we would probably need to make it "take a baby sip" if we want to make it through the entire episode (or not!).

 

[AnimeMania]

S01.E05: Jocelyn Forever

(Season Finale) 

While planning a showcase for her upcoming tour, Jocelyn begins to take control of the relationships around her – much to Tedros’s dismay. Later, a meeting with Jocelyn disrupts Nikki’s plans for Dyanne, as disturbing news about Jocelyn’s ex emerges.

Premiere Date: July 2, 2023    HBO    9pm

[luckyroll3]

Me during the last 10 minutes:

When Chaim said they were moving to option B, I thought he meant killing Tedros and putting his body in a freezer somewhere, not having the journalist write a mean article about him. Tedros never struck me as the kinda person who would get deterred by bad press

And how did they leave all these damn storylines open? What was in Leia's letter? Did Josslyn try help her ex-bf? And what about Xander and his BS. And does bald head dude have a talent other than being menacing? Also, Tedros is now the love of her life? I got lots of fucking questions that I know won't get answered. 

I did laugh throughout this entire episode. All the commentary during the showcase, especially from Fink and also the producing team was gold. And thank you Mike Dean for partially validating my vampire theory!

I have to say that I really liked the 2 songs Josslyn performed tonight. Her choreography on the other hand?

This entire show was fucking awful. Let's just hope that it remains as limited series and they won't get any ideas about a second season. And if anything, someone will leak the originals so that we could see what this mess looks like from a woman's perspective.

[Maurina]

56 minutes ago, luckyroll3 said:

And if anything, someone will leak the originals so that we could see what this mess looks like from a woman's perspective.

I am DYING to see the original cut.  Because holy fuck was this a total mess.  I was willing to give the finale a chance because there's been such a gleeful pile-on in terms of bashing this show - including my own bashing - but what, I mean, WHAT THE FUCK was that?

[dwmarch]

Well I didn't hate it but I am very confused. Jocelyn was the villain the whole time? I can sort of see that but yeah, count me in amongst the people who thought Plan B meant Tedros being driven out to a remote location and shot dead. Hell, just take him to the other side of the property and shoot him dead and if the neighbors complain tell them you're testing out a version of a song with gunshots in it. It's the Teddy's Dead remix, it's straight fire!

1 hour ago, luckyroll3 said:

What was in Leia's letter?

Same thing most of the audience said around episode 2: "Fuck this noise, I'm out!"

1 hour ago, luckyroll3 said:

Did Josslyn try help her ex-bf? And what about Xander and his BS.

I think she was actually in on it. If it has been Jocelyn all along, she knew how to manipulate Tedros into manipulating Xander so she could get rid of Rob. But not before getting that dick because she's a truly nasty pop bad girl™️.

The one thing I found myself wondering about is if they did indeed end up using the facial picture as the album cover. After they mentioned that idea they never brought it up again.

What a weird show. I'm almost tempted to re-watch it from the beginning to see if my Jocelyn is the villain theory holds. Almost.

[Pike Ludwell]

Oh good, a happy ending for Tedros! He wasn't such a bad guy after all!! LMAO WTF I was hoping against hope she wouldn't flake out, but she did. Ridiculous.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Pike Ludwell

[Lethallyfab]

Fun fact, the final scenes means this is in all likelihood the  infamous concert in Los Angeles where everyone had to consent to be filmed for ‘The Idol’ and which The Weekend left/canceled the concert after approximately two songs:

Leading to this hilarious justification: 

Quote

 “My theory is that I forgot how to sing because I was playing Tedros…As The Weeknd, I’ve never skipped a concert. I’ll die on the stage. But there was something very complicated going on with my mind at the moment.”

Okay, there, Daniel Day-Lewis, you need to take several steps back.

Vocally, I think all of Tedros’s kids outshine Jocelyn so I’m not sure as to how viable slotting them all as the opening acts is.  Does she want to sound like crap in comparison?

The really cool part is that Tedros went and destroyed an entire man’s career out of petty jealously and Jocelyn went “okay, but his beats are like, the absolute sickest, so who the fuck cares about collateral damage?”

My mind is *boggled* as to how every cast member is giving interviews about how everyone really wants a second season.  Like…how?  This seemed like a natural endpoint.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Lethallyfab
Space

[luckyroll3]

7 hours ago, dwmarch said:

Jocelyn was the villain the whole time?

 

7 hours ago, dwmarch said:

I think she was actually in on it. If it has been Jocelyn all along, she knew how to manipulate Tedros into manipulating Xander so she could get rid of Rob. But not before getting that dick because she's a truly nasty pop bad girl™️.

I think they [the writers/directors] wanted to have it both ways. Because we see the shift in her when she learns that Dyanne is a part of Tedros' crew. There's a similar reaction to when she finds out about the ex-BF. There's not a knowing glance between her and Tedros; instead there's a smirk from him that's very much, you thought you got me, but I got you. But on the other hand, I can see her inviting the BF over knowing that Tedros is going to be reactive, cause I totally believe Joss is a shitty person. So if she was the manipulator of the manipulator, the direction in many of these scenes was waaaaay off, like everything else in this damn show. 

What did come across great, in addition to her being a straight asshole, was that she is very single minded and only cares about her career and being the star. So she's willing to do whatever, including engaging with the craziness that Tedros' brings. 

[sadie]

What did I just watch? I was almost, almost on board, when Jocelyn suddenly became the big bad. I surmised a few eps back that she was the ultimate user but then the last ten minutes happened and just what a mess. So she just wanted to put him in his place so he always knows who is really in charge but she really loves him? What? Seriously? What? 
 

Finks commentary during the “showcase” was seriously the best thing in the entire series. Jocelyn’s strip tease for him was embarrassing. And who knew parading around in literal underwear was a fashion choice? That whole scene played out like a parody and I don’t think that was the intention.

Depp-Rose certainly hit the genetic lottery but I hope this mess doesn’t define her whole career. Maybe after a long time and some therapy we will all be able to forget this mess. 

[cmfran]

I don't even feel like breaking down what a mess the finale was. However, it definitely felt like there was a missing episode between 4 and 5. I know the network said there wasn't, but I really don't see how they got from ep 4 to the finale. I yelled out "wait...what?" so many times.

[marny]

The first 20 minutes of this mess was basically a karaoke strip club and I couldn’t understand why any of those executives just sat there and listened. The blonde girl in her underwear has a nice enough voice but the Dennis Rodman guy sounded like a poor man’s Maxwell with all his falsetto warbling. But apparently we’re supposed to think it was good? Ok, sure. 
And the scene of the executives cackling about “we sure ruined that guy’s life, ha ha” was something out of Austin Powers. Oh noes! A negative article about some guy no one has ever heard of in Vanity Fair! What sweet revenge!

This was all so stupid. 

Also, Jocelyn gives off the vibes of someone who hasn’t washed her face for 3 weeks. 

Edited July 3, 2023 by marny

[Dream Boy]

The biggest takeaway is that Leia was the smartest out of everyone by deciding to just get the Hell out of this mess.

What even was the point of Dyanne?

And hot on the heels of an expose about how terrible Tedros is, he is suddenly trotted out as Jocelyn's love interest and the crowd eats it up as #goals? Blah

[Aim123]

Y'all... what did I just watch. This was TOO stupid. Too many cooks in the kitchen in the writing room. Too many loose ends that I don't care enough to see tied up in a second season. 

Edited July 4, 2023 by Aim123

[Chalby]

On 6/27/2023 at 1:37 PM, bilgistic said:

😂Also, any illusion I had before this that The Weeknd has any talent has been dispelled.

I really like the Weeknd as a person, and as an artist. By episode 2 I despised him, then realized his acting is fine. He's not Samuel Jackson, but he's good enough to make me believe his scum-sucking character, and wishing to see him get destroyed.

[Chalby]

30 minutes ago, Aim123 said:

Y'all... what did I just watch. This was TOO stupid. Too many cooks in the kitchen in the writing room. Too many loose ends that I don't care enough to see tied up in a second season. 

The ending bothered me. When Jocelyn's entourage started retaliating against Tedrous, I was all in for a happy revenge ending. So the final shot made no sense to me. Why would

 

On 7/2/2023 at 1:37 PM, AnimeMania said:

S01.E05: Jocelyn Forever

Later, a meeting with Jocelyn disrupts Nikki’s plans for Dyanne, as disturbing news about Jocelyn’s ex emerges.

Premiere Date: July 2, 2023    HBO    9pm
 

Did I miss something in the final episode? Dianne's told she can't do the video/song because of legal reasons re: the writing, so she essentially lost her chance/ job. But what was the reason she couldn't do the song?

Also what happens with Jocelyn's ex. Does anyone actually go out and defend him and say the rape never happened?

Too many loose ends and I do not like that, especially since the scenarios they put out there have actually happened in real life.

[BigDfromLA]

I absolutely hated the character of Tedros. A rotten human being in so many regards. True scum. A legend in his own mind. In his attempt to be a musical genius, he is truly just a clown. He makes Dewey from the movie Bandslam look like Jimmy Iovine. It was great to see him crash and burn in the last episode. Even in the very end, when Jocelyn brought him on stage and declared him the love of her life, did you notice how he remained a beaten man and didn't revert to his old self in that moment? He is permanently destroyed. The icing on the cake was when Jocelyn, in front of 80,000 people, ordered him to "stand over there". That was fun to see.

Abel received a lot of criticism that he didn't deserve. He portrayed a rotten, evil character and he did it effectively. He was acting. His acting in the last episode as a broken man, was excellent. Abel shouldn't be criticized for the repugnance of his character and it would really be ridiculous for a fan of the Weekend to see him as his fictional character. I have gained a lot of respect for him, as someone who only vaguely knew of him before the show. 

I thought Lily Rose was outstanding as well...again portraying a character that is less than loveable. She is truly a beautiful woman as well. I look forward to seeing her in other roles in the future. 

[marny]

20 hours ago, Chalby said:

 

Did I miss something in the final episode? Dianne's told she can't do the video/song because of legal reasons re: the writing, so she essentially lost her chance/ job. But what was the reason she couldn't do the song?

 

The “legal reason” excuse was a lie. Jocelyn objected to Dyanne doing the song. When Dyanne gets on the elevator to leave, she says something like “It was Jocelyn, wasn’t it?” I guess it was another indicator that Joss is back in charge of the world or whatever. 

[cmfran]

What happened to Dan Levy's character? Wasn't he part of the team of managers/agents/whatever in episode 1?

Also, why are the people from the "family" opening for Jocelyn when nobody knows who they are? Are we supposed to believe they all had albums ready to go just in case they got the call? And were they all released in the six week time jump? Mike Dean must be the busiest stoner ever.

[SlovakPrincess]

Now, to be fair, I didn’t watch every episode and my knowledge of the rest of it is from online reviews and synopses… but I’m weirdly fascinated by the train wreck and it sounds like things just went from bad to even worse.  My theory is Dan Levy noped out of most of the show to preserve his dignity.

Something interesting COULD have been done with these dark themes. Clearly, they were more interested in being edgy and building up to the plot twist of “she was evil the whole time mwahaha!”  

I have to laugh at her corporate overseers agreeing to finance a tour where her opening acts are unknown, inexperienced weirdos.  The clip of them being so impressed by that girl warbling about lonely crocodiles crying… 😂

Most of the show also looks either too poorly lit or washed out — critics have said “at least it looks good,” but I think most of it looked kind of ugly.  Her house is ugly, the office sets are really ugly, the outfits are ugly (so much unnecessary underboob!), the lighting is ugly.  

[heatherchandler]

On 7/3/2023 at 12:14 PM, marny said:

 

This was all so stupid. 

Also, Jocelyn gives off the vibes of someone who hasn’t washed her face for 3 weeks. 

So stupid!

She looks greasy and her skin is terrible.  I guess I’ve been conditioned to want to see perfect skin.  But for someone like Lily Rose Depp, she can’t get to a dermatologist?
 

 

2 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

 

I have to laugh at her corporate overseers agreeing to finance a tour where her opening acts are unknown, inexperienced weirdos.  The clip of them being so impressed by that girl warbling about lonely crocodiles crying… 😂

 

When they were like, wow yeah she’s AMAZING!  I thought they would all start laughing.  But no- they were serious?!

[Pop Tart]

4 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

Something interesting COULD have been done with these dark themes. Clearly, they were more interested in being edgy and building up to the plot twist of “she was evil the whole time mwahaha!”  

I agree that there is a kernel of a story here - probably lost when they got rid of the woman director with her "female perspective" and replaced her with Sam Levinson whose sole goal seemed to be keeping LRD as skimpily dressed as possible and replacing dialogue with porn-y singing/dance numbers. 

side note: I find it very difficult to believe that any woman would choose to spend any more time than absolutely necessary in the skintight, strangling, minimal costumes they have her in. To shoot a video? Sure. Photoshoot? Sure. But for hanging out in her own house? There you'd be going for comfort. And going to her manager's office? Okay, you can make an argument for dressing as a "star" for a business meeting. But given that paparazzi would be following her everywhere I am more convinced that she'd dress down to escape as much notice as possible. All of it just seemed so much more of this being done for the male gaze.

There was a story to be told about who is/are the real predators in her life. Who's the real villain in the business of "Jocelyn". Is it all those managers/agents/etc who profit from her, or the cult guy who's entered her life, or she herself? But the serious lack of dialogue, character development that followed any logical progression, or just any story-beat that lasted more than an episode just made it this monstrous mess.

 

[cmfran]

On 7/5/2023 at 10:02 AM, SlovakPrincess said:

Now, to be fair, I didn’t watch every episode and my knowledge of the rest of it is from online reviews and synopses… but I’m weirdly fascinated by the train wreck and it sounds like things just went from bad to even worse.  My theory is Dan Levy noped out of most of the show to preserve his dignity.

Something interesting COULD have been done with these dark themes. Clearly, they were more interested in being edgy and building up to the plot twist of “she was evil the whole time mwahaha!”  

I have to laugh at her corporate overseers agreeing to finance a tour where her opening acts are unknown, inexperienced weirdos.  The clip of them being so impressed by that girl warbling about lonely crocodiles crying… 😂

Most of the show also looks either too poorly lit or washed out — critics have said “at least it looks good,” but I think most of it looked kind of ugly.  Her house is ugly, the office sets are really ugly, the outfits are ugly (so much unnecessary underboob!), the lighting is ugly.  

The house is the Weeknd's actual house, which explains a lot.

[The Hound Lives]

On 7/7/2023 at 4:22 AM, WatcherUatl10 said:And, much as I like Troye Sivan, there was nothing inspired or interesting about his cover of George Harrison. He can do better, but I assume they had to tone him down in order to make the rest look better.

   I hope this is the end.

I wasn’t that familiar with Troy Sivan. I knew the name, online “star” thing but this is my first time hearing him perform. Bleh, his voice is mediocre but his acting was awful. Continued proof that a pretty face and a good web cam and you, too, can become famous. Lily-Rose just needed great genes and famous parents. Half boob, ass in the air and withering around on the floor isn’t exactly a resume builder. 

[cmfran]

11 hours ago, The Hound Lives said:

I wasn’t that familiar with Troy Sivan. I knew the name, online “star” thing but this is my first time hearing him perform. Bleh, his voice is mediocre but his acting was awful. Continued proof that a pretty face and a good web cam and you, too, can become famous. Lily-Rose just needed great genes and famous parents. Half boob, ass in the air and withering around on the floor isn’t exactly a resume builder. 

The creepy woman with almost no eyebrows that did a song during the lap dancing "meeting" is also a real singer. She was apparently also on Euphoria but I don't remember it.

https://archive.flaunt.com/content/ramsey-hbo-the-idol

[SourK]

Okay, so obviously this isn't good. It's the kind of wish-fulfillment fantasy that a lot of writers pass off as a story while they're still learning -- the difference being that, if you're not famous, it usually doesn't get shown to the world.

So, in that sense, it doesn't surprise me that The Weeknd's first attempt at long-form story-telling was this.

The main thing I'm curious about -- and please tell me if there's info about it somewhere -- is whether HBO specifically axed the first version of the show because The Weeknd complained about it, or if they reached that decision independently.

[cmfran]

On 7/15/2023 at 2:36 PM, SourK said:

Okay, so obviously this isn't good. It's the kind of wish-fulfillment fantasy that a lot of writers pass off as a story while they're still learning -- the difference being that, if you're not famous, it usually doesn't get shown to the world.

So, in that sense, it doesn't surprise me that The Weeknd's first attempt at long-form story-telling was this.

The main thing I'm curious about -- and please tell me if there's info about it somewhere -- is whether HBO specifically axed the first version of the show because The Weeknd complained about it, or if they reached that decision independently.

From what I understand, it was because he didn't like it.

[luckyroll3]

Ooooh, shots fired! 😂😂😂

[kryss]

I thought Lily Rose Depp's acting wasn't bad. That is the only vaguely positive thing I can come up with.

I find it troubling that the show seems to justify bad shit in the name of 'good' music.

 

Another thought to add...

The opening photo shoot with all the emotions could have been foreshadowing of Joss's knowing participation whilst looking the part of being taken advantage of. Or at least it could have been if there'd been any interest in creating an actual story...

Edited August 26, 2023 by kryss

[patty1h]

No one has to worry if this show could get any tawdrier... CANCELED.

[dwmarch]

Now we'll never know if that nudity coordinator got out of the bathroom!