Season 24 Live Feeds Discussion

[30 Helens]

6 minutes ago, dizzyd said:

I like Taylor but you’ve burst my attempted innocent bubble wherein I believe that if she wins, production had nothing to do with it. 

Eh, depending on who you believe, production could be manipulating any one of the remaining 5 toward the winner’s chair. Monte because he’s Black and production wants to solidify their anti-racism position. Alyssa because she’s part of the beloved showmance. Turner because he has been so heavily showcased in DR segments and is the so-called lovable goofball. Taylor because of her comeback story. Brittany because… nah, nobody’s pushing for Brittany.

I’m no Spoiler Girl and I have no inside information, but I think all production wants is to keep people watching and have a winner that isn’t outright despised. To that end, I’m sure there is some manipulation that happens throughout the season, but I don’t think it’s so scripted as to choose the winner. Based on general audience attitudes towards the remaining 5, I think they’d be fine with any of them winning. Except maybe Brittany.

JMO.

[Sketcher]

9 minutes ago, 30 Helens said:

Eh, depending on who you believe, production could be manipulating any one of the remaining 5 toward the winner’s chair. Monte because he’s Black and production wants to solidify their anti-racism position. Alyssa because she’s part of the beloved showmance. Turner because he has been so heavily showcased in DR segments and is the so-called lovable goofball. Taylor because of her comeback story. Brittany because… nah, nobody’s pushing for Brittany.

I’m no Spoiler Girl and I have no inside information, but I think all production wants is to keep people watching and have a winner that isn’t outright despised. To that end, I’m sure there is some manipulation that happens throughout the season, but I don’t think it’s so scripted as to choose the winner. Based on general audience attitudes towards the remaining 5, I think they’d be fine with any of them winning. Except maybe Brittany.

JMO.

I think there's a case that if Brittany somehow becomes a comp beast their coverage of Britt will flip and she will get a much more heroic edit. I mean, her biggest flaw is that she is annoying and spirals under pressure, and that can be quietly edited out if she continues to win. She also has the infertility story that can be hyped at the end to gain her some sympathy.

So, basically, as long as no one does anything overtly problematic, I don't think the producers care who wins. 

[jsm1125]

It doesn’t sit well with me that Michael, the gay guy, was someone that the other men never thought was worthy enough to be a “bro,” whether that be his exclusion from Oasis in week 1, the pound in week 3, or from Turner’s/Monte’s relationship. Am I crazy for thinking this? 

[twilightzone]

Spoiler Girl says there is an argument in the Jury house - and it's between Terrance and Michael.  She says the juror that is in trouble with production - came into the house prior to Terrance and Michael.

[dizzyd]

Now we know why that HoH took so long. 

[Brian Cronin]

26 minutes ago, jsm1125 said:

It doesn’t sit well with me that Michael, the gay guy, was someone that the other men never thought was worthy enough to be a “bro,” whether that be his exclusion from Oasis in week 1, the pound in week 3, or from Turner’s/Monte’s relationship. Am I crazy for thinking this? 

Oh, it's total bullshit. The issue, though, of course, is that Michael knew he was dealing that bullshit coming in, so he probably should have done things differently (like not won so many competitions, for one). 

[Brian Cronin]

Just now, Lucas Rowan said:

Or possibly -- I don't know -- targeted the bros before they could target him.  Which, ultimately, they did, because he didn't.

But no way they'd have been targeting him had he not been such a comp beast, right?

[jsm1125]

I absolutely think Michael would have been gone week 1 had he not won veto.

[Lady Whistleup]

Terrance is the only one I see being really bitter and ruining the jury vibe. Most of the time people go to the jury and chill out. I mean, even Candice and Aaryn got along in jury. 

[Brian Cronin]

14 minutes ago, jsm1125 said:

I absolutely think Michael would have been gone week 1 had he not won veto.

Oh, sure, win when you HAVE to, but he won so many pointless comps, as well. 

[Never Again]

I found this episode to be one of the most boring ever. Half of it was about the previous eviction and half of it was a very lengthy HOH. It’s always hard to fill an hour with just five people in the house but this is the point every year when I scream at the TV just show me what’s going on in the jury house!  My TV never listens to me though 

[Brian Cronin]

1 minute ago, Lucas Rowan said:

And then proceeded to do nothing with those wins.

Oh sure, he made a number of strategic mistakes.

[dizzyd]

16 minutes ago, Lucas Rowan said:

Or possibly -- I don't know -- targeted the bros before they could target him.  Which, ultimately, they did, because he didn't.

15 minutes ago, Brian Cronin said:

But no way they'd have been targeting him had he not been such a comp beast, right?

Not sure he could have done either. He was on the block week 1 and had to save himself right off the bat. He was on the block again week 3. He was a target for everyone besides possibly Brittany and he was also temporarily saved from being a target when the LO was formed so there was no time to get Monte and Turner out before others who were threats to him. Same reason they couldn’t get him out sooner. His problem was he relied solely on winning comps and did not develop a strong social game but maybe he recognized that that’s his strength and he had to play to his strengths. He did throw a couple of comps like 1st HoH and the POV that Brittany won. But by then his beast status had already been established. 

[Lady Calypso]

Michael would have been targeted, whether or not he won all those comps. If it wasn't because of his comp threat, they would have found some other excuse to target him. For example, BECAUSE he wasn't in the Pound, he would have been seen as expendable anyway and they would have gladly got rid of him sooner. 

Now, I do think Michael needed to work on his social game more. I think his comp wins were fine as I actually think it bought him a few extra weeks before being actively targeted (the LOs needed him because of his wins, so he was beneficial and they COULD overlook his threat until they didn't need him anymore), and his strategic game WAS actually decent (he thought out possibilities, considered every angle and made the choice he believed to be the correct one, even if it sometimes wasn't), but what Michael did wrong was not build closer bonds with people outside of Brittany and Taylor and even Kyle. Had he worked on forming legit bonds with Alyssa and other members of the LOs, it might have helped greatly.

And I get the introverted aspect and maybe not being social compared to most. But that is ultimately where his downfall led.

[Lady Calypso]

52 minutes ago, twilightzone said:

Spoiler Girl says there is an argument in the Jury house - and it's between Terrance and Michael.  She says the juror that is in trouble with production - came into the house prior to Terrance and Michael.

SpoilerGirl is mostly a fraud. These are things she would have NO knowledge of knowing. She can't be part of every aspect of production, and these are things that can be debunked and disproven. I don't buy anything DR/jury related from SG. She's been wrong a lot of the time, so this is just gossip, at this point.

[twilightzone]

1 hour ago, jsm1125 said:

It doesn’t sit well with me that Michael, the gay guy, was someone that the other men never thought was worthy enough to be a “bro,” whether that be his exclusion from Oasis in week 1, the pound in week 3, or from Turner’s/Monte’s relationship. Am I crazy for thinking this? 

Michael didn't have a strong social game and really wasn't close to anyone in the house.  Even with Brittany, it was all about the game.  And it only got him to 6th place.  He may have broken Janelle's wins, but she made F3 and won AFP.  AFP will likely be between Joseph and Taylor.

Edited September 12, 2022 by twilightzone

[choclatechip45]

I actually don't think Michael's social game was that awful. I was one of the people who thought the cookout 2.0 reveal was not going to work because no on would care. He really did hit the right notes with Monte, Taylor, Alyssa and Turner so he clearly was observant enough to get that part right. Monte does deserve some credit in convincing Turner.

I think the downfall of his game was not revealing the cookout 2.0 info when it happened and not getting Kyle out either of his first two HOH's. Due to him revealing the cookout 2.0 info when he did he couldn't take Turner out when he needed too. We all saw the jury segment they were all pissed with Michael and sending Turner there wasn't going to help him win.

13 minutes ago, twilightzone said:

Michael didn't have a strong social game and really wasn't close to anyone in the house.  Even with Brittany, it was all about the game.  And it only got him to 6th place.  He may have broken Janelle's wins, but she made F3 and won AFP.  AFP will likely be between Joseph and Taylor.

Michael seems like the last player who has played in recent seasons who cares about AFP. I'm sure being Janelle's favorite means more to him lol. 

[twilightzone]

38 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

SpoilerGirl is mostly a fraud. These are things she would have NO knowledge of knowing. She can't be part of every aspect of production, and these are things that can be debunked and disproven. I don't buy anything DR/jury related from SG. She's been wrong a lot of the time, so this is just gossip, at this point.

But she's also been right.  I don't think the claim that Terrance and Michael had an argument is that unbelievable.  Terrance said he was going to out Michael with the jury.  Likewise with the claim that the jurors were trashing Michael.  We already saw how angry they were.

Edited September 12, 2022 by twilightzone

[dizzyd]

28 minutes ago, Lucas Rowan said:

However, he has literally ZERO excuse for his second and third HoHs.  Monte was right there both of those times, and the latter time, Turner was also an option.  And he completely passed on both chances to get out weaker, more harmless players in Jasmine and Terrance, who wouldn't have hindered his competition run at all, while leaving in two men who would and did.  That was his doing, and no one else's.

True, but Michael has a big ego. He always felt he was smarter than everyone else and better than everyone else at comps. He had only 1 strategy and that was to win comps and get to the end and the jury would reward him over whoever was next to him (which he planned to be Brittany) for building an incomparable resume. Very shortsighted of him and that was his downfall because BB is ultimately a social game and you cannot rely on comp wins to get to the end or that the person sitting next to you at the end is the one you planned or that the jury has the same opinion as you on what deserves to be rewarded. Anyway I’m glad he’s gone so his lopsided resume is not a factor in the end game. 

[choclatechip45]

4 minutes ago, Lucas Rowan said:

Okay.  So that proves that Michael had just enough social game to get by.  But this late in the game, "just enough" isn't nearly enough.  He needed bonds outside of the Leftovers, like those left behind from the Girls' Girls/Po's Pack.  Joseph and Kyle got that.  To an extent, Turner did, as well.  Michael didn't try to make inroads with any of them.  If he had, he could've kept at least some of them around as back-pocket options, and that might've saved him and left him not needing to win competitions as often.

As he played it, though, he stayed fully ensconced with the Leftovers, didn't try to make side deals with anyone outside of it, and when enough outsiders were gone, he had nothing to save himself as a contingency, save for running the competition table to the end, which, while not impossible, was definitely improbable (and was proven to be fallible thinking).  And as soon as his clearly primary goal hit its first snag, the others seized the opportunity.

 I'm still impressed with how Michael knew everyone's reaction to the cookout 2.0 reveal would make sure Kyle would go home that week. Did he play a perfect game? No. Is it like Danielle Reyes game in Big Brother 3 or Diane's in Big Brother 5? Absolutely not (those are some of the best players never to win). 

But the way people are talking you would think his social game was like Ivette from Big brother 6 or Natalie from Big Brother 11. 

Edited September 12, 2022 by choclatechip45

[choclatechip45]

12 minutes ago, Lucas Rowan said:

Well, you might not like this, but . . . in some ways, it was.  No, he didn't treat people as poorly as Ivette or Natalie (in that respect, his social game was better than theirs), but he definitely didn't get the significance of being in good with people outside of his alliance, which was one of the biggest mistakes that both of them made, as well.

Except that is not really true. Indy and Jasmine both left the house with positive feelings towards Michael. Go look at their exit press. No one was saying positive things about Ivette or Natalie when they were evicted. Ivette managed to piss off Rachel in her goodbye messages.  Yes they were upset with him in the jury house, but the footage they show from jury doesn't always show the full story they have to make it interesting.  If Spoiler Girl (who might not even be accurate) wasn't around I doubt people would be ragging this hard on Michael. 

Side note Spoiler Girl seems to hate Michael. She started the rumor that Michael told Terrance to target Joseph which I doubt happened. Since Terrance did not bring it up once to Monte or Taylor. 

Edited September 12, 2022 by choclatechip45

[30 Helens]

1 hour ago, Lucas Rowan said:

True, but she did also say that Indy, Jasmine, and Joseph were shocked to see Kyle show up at the jury house (which they were), that Kyle told the truth behind his eviction (which he did), and that they were all furious with both him and Michael over it (which they were).  So she clearly does have some inside knowledge.

Or, she knows enough about these people (and human psychology, perhaps) to predict how they will react and be right most of the time.  I would have predicted all three of those things myself. I’m not saying she’s a fraud; I have no idea. But those particular “spoilers” are not necessarily proof of legitimacy.

I have to say, I was a little disappointed in Taylor tonight. I’m not going to judge her, people have all kinds of phobias that can be triggered in unexpected ways, I was just expecting that she had quit over something more than a little goo on the floor. Like slithery fake snakes, or people reaching out to grab her, or something actually scary. I really hope she didn’t back out because she was feeling comfortable since no one was targeting her this week, and didn’t think she needed to subject herself to slime. Feeling comfortable leads to bad things.

Seeing how close Brittany came to winning HoH (9 seconds!) makes me feel a little cheated. We almost had a week of pure chaos, with Turner and Monte scrambling to save their lives. Oh, well. At least she’s causing a little chaos with the veto.

[30 Helens]

Alyssa is still salty about Kyle playing behind her back. She recalls a day when she wrote him a poem. It took her a long time, and she figures it was shown intercut with scenes of Kyle planning to vote her out. If she was to have a showmance, she wanted it to be a Jessica-and-Cody I’ll Die For You-style showmance. She would have died for Kyle, but he wouldn’t die for her. So she’s done with him.

Taylor is curious to know: What was Alyssa really thinking when she won the wall and Kyle was there hugging her? Alyssa didn’t love it, but she’s fine.

[SummerDreams]

Taylor is a bad Big Brother player and I wouldn't like her to win. Brittany has done way more than Taylor, the fact that she was in a duo with the strongest player in the house and she helped make those decisions is proof for that. Taylor is a very nice person who will become rich after the game and she knows it. There is no need for her to win this strategic game as well. I know many non deserving people have won over the years and I feel the same about them as well. Big brother is mostly a strategic game and the winner should be the best strategist like Kevin from BB Canada 10 was.

[30 Helens]

But… Alyssa still wants to know what Kyle said about her. Turner says he’s not sure he even knew Kyle, or if they were ever actually friends. He will have to watch the season back to see if the Kyle he thought he know is the real Kyle. 

Taylor regrets that she ever gave the impression she didn’t want to work with the girls. Alyssa regrets ever working against Taylor. They love each other. Taylor also regrets trying to make out with Daniel. But that was week 1, so.

Brittany is missing out on all this bonding and reminiscing because she went to bed. Bad game move. This is the time she should be trying to build solo bonds, not retreating and letting the rest of them bond.

[30 Helens]

In terms of watching the show back, Taylor is interested in seeing where things went wrong with Nicole, because they were once very close. She also wants to see why Ameerah came after her so aggressively. Monte recaps the whole Paloma thing, kinda sorta taking responsibility for his part. Taylor recaps her frustration with nobody ever telling her what she did wrong, just speaking in generalities, telling her she says things the wrong way. Cut to:

Instead of hanging out with everyone else, Brittany is monologuing: If she had won HoH, she would have been gunning for Turner. But maybe it’s good she didn’t, because now she’s eligible for the next one. And she’s good at dates, while Turner isn’t. But Monte’s also good at dates, so. She knows she’s made mistakes, but as long as her family and friends are ok with her game, she’s ok with it too. 

[30 Helens]

Back to the four in the yard: Alyssa is calling Joseph a big scary freak man. She doesn’t blame him for trying to get her out, but that meant she didn’t mind cutting him.

Taylor asks Monte if Joseph was his closest person in the house. He says yes, until he realized Joseph was playing both sides. He doesn’t play that way.

Turner’s closest were Pooch and Kyle, but not Kyle any more.

Taylor doesn't want people to feel they have to share their most vulnerable moments in order to be close to her. Alyssa feels her oversharing helped people to feel close. Taylor didn’t like how the MeToo movement required women to relive their trauma in order for people to understand. Monte: But if they don’t share, how will we know? Taylor: By trusting.

Monte thinks sharing personal stories is important, because that helps with understanding. He thinks any question with good intention is a good question. You can always decline to answer.

Alyssa’s favorite quote: Are you really listening, or are you just waiting to speak?

Lots of philosophical talk in the backyard tonight. Interrupted by a glimpse of something in the sky with flashing lights, hovering. Debate shifts to whether or not it’s a UFO. Turner and Alyssa think yes. What does UFO stand for? Alyssa’s the only one who knows.

[30 Helens]

Next up: rehashing Michael and Brittany’s move re sharing the Kyle info. Turner hates the that they said it was not a game move despite the obvious timing, and he does not forgive them for that. Monte says it was an insult to his intelligence. Taylor is having trouble dealing with Brittany since then, because Brittany keeps making excuses.

(Side note: They all think Michael’s LGBTQ comment was uncalled for. Turner also judges them for that.)

Taylor discloses her comment to Michael about how people who look like Alyssa will always be protected, but people who look like her will not. She felt betrayed by Michael and Brittany. They wanted to do the right thing, but only when it didn’t cost them anything. She said she has had trouble masking her fury ever since. But she wants Alyssa to know she does not hold anything against her personally. (Alyssa appreciates that.)

They all say at least Kyle owned his shit, Michael and Brittany did not. Turner wants no association with any of that. He doesn’t want people to see him as Kyle’s friend or counterpart. “Fuck all three of them” is his final verdict.

So, despite Michael and Brittany’s other mistakes (and many have been discussed), this conversation leaves no doubt in my mind that THIS one move sunk their game, regardless of whatever else happened. None of them would ever have voted for Michael to win. There is just way too much bitterness, still.

[Joan of Argh]

13 hours ago, Callaphera said:

The ring thing has come up a few times in different seasons. Elissa gave Amanda her diamond ring to prove her loyalty, Kyland had Big D's ring, and there was someone (maybe Dan but I want to say it was BB12's Matt) that crowed about giving away a fake ring.

I also remember Shelly offering her (fake) diamond ring to someone, I think it might have been Jeff and Jordan

[30 Helens]

Turner and Taylor are feeling really bad about sending Alyssa out this week. Especially since she seems to be unaware. Taylor seems sad that she didn’t get to know Alyssa better, earlier. She really likes her. They both give her credit for being the last of a big alliance.

I think Taylor and Alyssa will be really good friends after this.

[choclatechip45]

3 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

Turner and Taylor are feeling really bad about sending Alyssa out this week. Especially since she seems to be unaware. Taylor seems sad that she didn’t get to know Alyssa better, earlier. She really likes her. They both give her credit for being the last of a big alliance.

I think Taylor and Alyssa will be really good friends after this.

I don't. Alyssa has been awful to Taylor until last week. She has some weird jealousy when it comes to Taylor. I think the only reason Alyssa is nice to Taylor is 1) game reasons and 2) there aren't a lot of people left in the house to hang out with. 

Edited September 12, 2022 by choclatechip45

[Callaphera]

3 hours ago, Lucas Rowan said:

It almost feels undeserving that Alyssa's the last one standing of that alliance, considering that she's the one who blew it up in the first place out of nothing but pure lust for Kyle.

Undeserving maybe, but it's pretty damned funny.

[Mediocre Gatsby]

I feel like Alyssa and Brittany both latched on to a guy and got carried along. At least Brittany has won a few challenges. She's slightly ahead of Alyssa in my book (not that anyone cares about my book). 

[dizzyd]

Well isn’t this cozy, the 1st sleepover of the season, minus B, besides the enforced one during the Taylor Joseph punishment.

Turner and Alyssa both said they were bruised badly from the veto comp, something involving gear wheels, maybe a gear puzzle like in a clock. 

Edited September 12, 2022 by dizzyd

[peachmangosteen]

10 hours ago, dizzyd said:

True, but Michael has a big ego. He always felt he was smarter than everyone else and better than everyone else at comps. 

I don't see this. Michael never sat around talking about how he had every comp on lock and was gonna win forever. That's Monte and Turner lol.

10 hours ago, choclatechip45 said:

Side note Spoiler Girl seems to hate Michael. She started the rumor that Michael told Terrance to target Joseph which I doubt happened. Since Terrance did not bring it up once to Monte or Taylor. 

Yes, she's one of the people trying to claim that Michael telling people Kyle is racist is worse than Kyle being racist. It's disgusting.

[peachmangosteen]

I'm reading about the convo Monte had with Brittany and Taylor last night where he just gaslighted them and acted high and mighty. And telling Brittany she shouldn't bring up that she wants to use the money for fertility treatments. So, you can say you wanna use the money to make a MRA podcast but Brittany can't talk about wanting to have a baby? Just say you hate women for fuck's sake.

Also, this thread:

And this:

Seriously, fuck this guy.

Production, the next HOH better be endurance and then veto better just be flat out rigged for Brittany because I can't stomach these men getting F2.

[Lady Calypso]

33 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Production, the next HOH better be endurance and then veto better just be flat out rigged for Brittany because I can't stomach these men getting F2.

Veto is usually Days, which Brittany is actually fairly good at. She studied with Michael a lot.

Monte/Taylor/Turner kind of know their days, but I think Brittany knows them better.

[Lady Calypso]

Just now, Lucas Rowan said:

Monte may have wanted to make Taylor distrust Michael and Brittany, but IMO, Michael and Brittany took care of that all by themselves with the way they handled the whole Kyle mess.

Taylor doesn't distrust M/B, which is why Monte has been gunning so hard on the anti-Brittany train. He wants to ensure next week that she takes out Brittany instead of him or Turner, should it come to it.

Taylor played along finally last night, but she's going to choose Brittany over Turner and even Monte if it comes down to it. 

I get Monte's reasoning, and I get why he's so upset with Brittany (her lying really doesn't help her) but the way he talks to her and about her is very uncomfortable. At times, he takes it past game. And especially knowing Monte hasn't talked that way about Kyle, the person who DID make the race comments, and not even about Michael, but he's happy to take it all out on Brittany. Who, again, doesn't do herself any favours and should be called out, but the way he does it doesn't sit right with me.

[peachmangosteen]

Does anyone remember what F4 HOH was last season? I didn't watch so I don't know lol. Or even what it was in 22? I'm hoping it's like 21 and it's spinning discs because Turner has talked so much about not doing well with spinning. 

[choclatechip45]

10 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Does anyone remember what F4 HOH was last season? I didn't watch so I don't know lol. Or even what it was in 22? I'm hoping it's like 21 and it's spinning discs because Turner has talked so much about not doing well with spinning. 

It was the blacklight HOH which just happened. They still haven't done the Egg competition yet. 

Edited September 12, 2022 by choclatechip45

[blixie]

Quote

But I do think that he vastly overestimated his own prowess in this game.

I think he overestimated his strategy, he heard someone critique him for not making a "big" move but for his game (win out in comps) I think those moves were actually important. You can't just leave Turner and Monty and earlier Kyle in the game if winning out is the plan its hard enough if you've eliminated comp threats. He was like I make smart moves and while many people have one by never making any real moves (Xavier/Jun) that went out the window when he had to win comps to save himself. I don't think a single person playing this year really understands that piece except Kyle and Brittany. I keep hearing Turner and Taylor and Monty and Michael all saying "this is what's best for my game" it consistently  makes no fucking sense to think the choice their focused on is best for *their* game, at the time they were making the argument.

[peachmangosteen]

22 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

It was the blacklight HOH which just happened. They still haven't done the Egg competition yet. 

Blacklight? I hope they don't do the egg competition. It's so wasteful but also Turner would win so no lol.

[Lady Calypso]

3 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Blacklight? I hope they don't do the egg competition. It's so wasteful but also Turner would win so no lol.

I mean...it WOULD be funny to see Turner win HOH and Brittany win veto, evicting Monte and Turner is now stuck with the two people he DIDN'T want in his F3, knowing damn well he has to win both comps to get to F2.

[choclatechip45]

29 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Blacklight? I hope they don't do the egg competition. It's so wasteful but also Turner would win so no lol.

Yea the basement one they just did for HOH. You had to solve a "crime". 

Edited September 12, 2022 by choclatechip45

[Callaphera]

Oh, right, it was branded as a crime scene thing because they were promoting the CSI: Vegas reboot.

Edited September 12, 2022 by Callaphera

[LeDucDiableBleu]

Going back a couple pages, I think Janelle gave her ring as collateral twice. I remember Britney trying Janelle's ring on and I thought it was hilarious. I think she also gave it to Cody as collateral in the last all stars.

[choclatechip45]

4 minutes ago, LeDucDiableBleu said:

Going back a couple pages, I think Janelle gave her ring as collateral twice. I remember Britney trying Janelle's ring on and I thought it was hilarious. I think she also gave it to Cody as collateral in the last all stars.

From what I remember Cody wouldn't accept it. 

[30 Helens]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Yes, she's one of the people trying to claim that Michael telling people Kyle is racist is worse than Kyle being racist. It's disgusting.

Are they saying Michael telling people is worse, or the self-serving timing of telling people is worse? Genuinely asking, because I haven’t heard or read these claims.

It certainly seems that Taylor and Monte think Michael’s manipulation of the information was worse than anything Kyle did. (I’m disregarding Turner and Alyssa’s opinions, because they don’t matter.) They all had a very frank and open conversation about this last night, and it was very enlightening to me. After listening to them, I understood how someone cynically using racism for their own benefit could be so much more offensive than the actual racism, vile as that is.

[peachmangosteen]

I hope people let Taylor know that what Kyle did was worse than what Michael did. Like that’s so obvious it’s insane to me that people are even questioning it. I’ll give Taylor a bit of a pass because Michael didn’t tell them about the microaggressions. Perhaps Michael didn’t even notice them tbh.

Monte can fuck off with any and every opinion he has because he truly sucks lol.

[Jobiska]

I suspect, but can't say for sure--only Taylor and Monte can--that Kyle's conversations afterward went a long way.  Taylor's big-heartedness for sure is open to helping Kyle learn and grow, even though it's not her job.  If her sense is that he is sincere and remorseful, then I think she would be more forgiving (and yes, I don't think Michael necessarily picked up on the microagressions).  That seems to be how Taylor rolls.  

Not being on the spot, I can't gauge how sincere Kyle is, but I think Taylor would have a sense, or at least high hopes.